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Can a 93 minute film fit onto on DVD?

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February 2, 2005 1:09:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Hi. Why is it that I can only fit about an hour of video onto a DVD+R,
while studio DVDs seem to easily hold a good 2 hours of high quality
sound and video? I am making my DVDs at 7Mbps (exporting from Adobe
Premiere Pro), but I figure the studios must be doing at least that.
Are they using a different DVD technology than standard home burners?
Is such technology accessible to amateurs like me? I want to burn a 93
minute film I made on Mini-DV onto one DVD, so I was wondering how to do
that without sacrificing quality. Here's the specs when I export, if
that helps:

Video Summary:
Codec: MainConcept MPEG Video
Quality: 5.0 (high quality)
TV Standard: NTSC
Frame Rate [fps]: 29.97 drop frame
Field Order: Lower
Aspect Ratio: 4:3
Frame Width [pixels]: 720
Frame Height [pixels]: 480
Bitrate Encoding: CBR
Bitrate [Mbps]: 7.0000 (high quality)
M Frames: 3
N Frames: 15

Audio Summary:
Audio Format: PCM
Codec: PCM Audio
Sample Size: 16 bit
Frequency: 48 kHz

Multiplexer Summary:
Multiplexing: None

Thanks for any info!

Ken

More about : minute film fit dvd

Anonymous
February 2, 2005 1:20:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Ken wrote:
> Hi. Why is it that I can only fit about an hour of video onto a DVD+R,
> while studio DVDs seem to easily hold a good 2 hours of high quality
> sound and video? I am making my DVDs at 7Mbps (exporting from Adobe
> Premiere Pro), but I figure the studios must be doing at least that.
> Are they using a different DVD technology than standard home burners?

Most commercial discs are dual layer.
Most recordable discs are single layer.
i.e., you have approx 1/2 the space.

Just lower the bitrate. If you want to put lots of time on a single
DVD, consider using half D1 resolution. I usually make my DVDs with
3000 ABR and Half D1. It gets me 180minutes+ per disc.

Use this calculator if you're not sure what bitrate to use:
http://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm


> Bitrate Encoding: CBR

VBR makes more sense.


> Audio Format: PCM

That's a waste of space. Consider AC3. Or possibly MPEG2, but the
compatibility in NTSC land isn't guaranteed.


--
-WD
February 2, 2005 1:49:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Ken wrote:
>..Here's the specs when I export, if
> that helps:
> Ken

Take a look at DVDShrink - if you're a windows user. Decent program.
Related resources
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 2:24:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 22:49:12 -0500, Flavius <joe@online.com> wrote:

>Ken wrote:
>>..Here's the specs when I export, if
>> that helps:
>> Ken
>
>Take a look at DVDShrink - if you're a windows user. Decent program.

It's really a better idea to get the size right in the initial
encode than to run it through a transcoder to force it to fit.

-----------------------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
-----------------------------------------------------
I have no fears in life,
for I have already survived Theta-G!
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 1:35:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Ken" <kk_oop@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:p _CdncB82tcd2Z3fRVn-pg@rcn.net...
> Hi. Why is it that I can only fit about an hour of video onto a DVD+R,
> while studio DVDs seem to easily hold a good 2 hours of high quality
> sound and video? I am making my DVDs at 7Mbps (exporting from Adobe
> Premiere Pro), but I figure the studios must be doing at least that.
> Are they using a different DVD technology than standard home burners?
> Is such technology accessible to amateurs like me? I want to burn a 93
> minute film I made on Mini-DV onto one DVD, so I was wondering how to do
> that without sacrificing quality. Here's the specs when I export, if
> that helps:

I routinely turn out 90+-minute DVDs (though I use DVD-R -- it shouldn't
matter, though). A couple of points:

Commercial DVDs are dual-layer and hold about 9 Gb. DVD-R and DVD+4 are
single layer and hold 4.7 Gb (though there are, now, double-layer burnable
DVDs available though, of course, you need a double-layer burner).

The key to transcoding is bit rate. Don't use CBR (constant bit rate), as
transcoding at higher bit rates will limit your video length. Use 2-pass
VBR (variable bit rate) and let the transcoder decide where it can cut
bitrates.

I don't use the Mainconcept transcoder that comes with Premiere. Though
it's fast, it doesn't produce the best quality results. I prefer tmpgenc,
which, when properly tweaked, can produce stunning results with even
2-hour-long videos. Note, however, that on my 3 GHz P4 machine, transcoding
a 2-hour video using 2-pass VBR can take up to 24 hours. The result is
worth it, however.


>
> Video Summary:
> Codec: MainConcept MPEG Video
> Quality: 5.0 (high quality)
> TV Standard: NTSC
> Frame Rate [fps]: 29.97 drop frame
> Field Order: Lower
> Aspect Ratio: 4:3
> Frame Width [pixels]: 720
> Frame Height [pixels]: 480
> Bitrate Encoding: CBR
> Bitrate [Mbps]: 7.0000 (high quality)
> M Frames: 3
> N Frames: 15
>
> Audio Summary:
> Audio Format: PCM
> Codec: PCM Audio
> Sample Size: 16 bit
> Frequency: 48 kHz
>
> Multiplexer Summary:
> Multiplexing: None
>
> Thanks for any info!
>
> Ken
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 4:11:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 22:20:56 -0500, Will Dormann
<wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

>Ken wrote:
>> Hi. Why is it that I can only fit about an hour of video onto a DVD+R,
>> while studio DVDs seem to easily hold a good 2 hours of high quality
>> sound and video? I am making my DVDs at 7Mbps (exporting from Adobe
>> Premiere Pro), but I figure the studios must be doing at least that.
>> Are they using a different DVD technology than standard home burners?
>
>Most commercial discs are dual layer.
>Most recordable discs are single layer.
>i.e., you have approx 1/2 the space.

Dual-layer capable DVD burners are now about $70

The media is still expensive and there are a lot of compatibility
issues, but it's becoming a possibility now.

>Just lower the bitrate. If you want to put lots of time on a single
>DVD, consider using half D1 resolution. I usually make my DVDs with
>3000 ABR and Half D1. It gets me 180minutes+ per disc.

For home movies etc, I'd rather keep the bitrate up there - nobody can
watch those damn things for more than 90 minutes anyway.

>Use this calculator if you're not sure what bitrate to use:
>http://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm
>
>
>> Bitrate Encoding: CBR
>
>VBR makes more sense.
>
>
>> Audio Format: PCM
>
>That's a waste of space. Consider AC3. Or possibly MPEG2, but the
>compatibility in NTSC land isn't guaranteed.

Yep, stick to AC3 if you want it to work in the US.

--
Owamanga!
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 4:50:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On a sunny day (Tue, 01 Feb 2005 22:09:59 -0500) it happened Ken
<kk_oop@yahoo.com> wrote in <p_CdncB82tcd2Z3fRVn-pg@rcn.net>:

>Hi. Why is it that I can only fit about an hour of video onto a DVD+R,
>while studio DVDs seem to easily hold a good 2 hours of high quality
>sound and video? I am making my DVDs at 7Mbps (exporting from Adobe
>Premiere Pro).
hehe, 7Mbps x 3600 = 25200 Mbps = 3150 Mb = 3.15 GB, that fits in a 4.7 GB
single layer DVD.
That is why!
Let us reverse the calculation:
You want 2 hours.
You have 4.7 GB = 4700 MB
That is per second 4700 / (2 * 3600) = 0.6528 MB and that is 5.22 Mbits / second.
You need space for audio too likely, and IFO file, backup IFO, etc.. ISO
filesytem overhead.
So let us say 4.5 Mbps or there about for the video.
Lets reverse that
4.5 Mbps = .5625MB/sec * 2 * 3600 = 4050 MB = 4.05GB
If the sound is AC3 320 kbps stereo one language then it takes:
288 MB (same calculation).
Add it to the video:
4.05 + .288 = 4.338 GB.
Add the IFO file, its backups, ISO stuff and the DVD is full.
You will have to wait for blue light DVD ;-)
There is nothing 'mystical' about this, you can do these calculations
I am sure (man even without buying a 'disk space calculator program...).
Anonymous
February 2, 2005 11:51:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Jim Gunn wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:35:23 -0800, "PTravel" <ptravel@ruyitang.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I don't use the Mainconcept transcoder that comes with Premiere.
Though
> >it's fast, it doesn't produce the best quality results. I prefer
tmpgenc,
> >which, when properly tweaked, can produce stunning results with even
> >2-hour-long videos. Note, however, that on my 3 GHz P4 machine,
transcoding
> >a 2-hour video using 2-pass VBR can take up to 24 hours. The result
is
> >worth it, however.
>
> Do you have any recomended settings in TMPGEnc . to get better
results
> using the two pass VBR settings with a video over two hours in
length?
> I just authored my first DVD (approx. 140 min. of video ) using
Encore
> and the result with the automatic trancoding was ok, but not really
> great quality. I do have TMPEnc. Plus.2.5. Any suggestions for the
> settings that I might try to see if I can get better quality and
still
> fit this on a regular 4.7 Gb disk?

Take a look at the settings found here:
http://dvd-hq.info/Compression.html
Anonymous
February 3, 2005 1:05:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:35:23 -0800, "PTravel" <ptravel@ruyitang.com>
wrote:

>I don't use the Mainconcept transcoder that comes with Premiere. Though
>it's fast, it doesn't produce the best quality results. I prefer tmpgenc,
>which, when properly tweaked, can produce stunning results with even
>2-hour-long videos. Note, however, that on my 3 GHz P4 machine, transcoding
>a 2-hour video using 2-pass VBR can take up to 24 hours. The result is
>worth it, however.

Do you have any recomended settings in TMPGEnc . to get better results
using the two pass VBR settings with a video over two hours in length?
I just authored my first DVD (approx. 140 min. of video ) using Encore
and the result with the automatic trancoding was ok, but not really
great quality. I do have TMPEnc. Plus.2.5. Any suggestions for the
settings that I might try to see if I can get better quality and still
fit this on a regular 4.7 Gb disk?
February 3, 2005 10:40:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Ken wrote:

> Hi. Why is it that I can only fit about an hour of video onto a
> DVD+R, while studio DVDs seem to easily hold a good 2 hours of high
> quality sound and video? I am making my DVDs at 7Mbps (exporting from
> Adobe Premiere Pro), but I figure the studios must be doing at least
> that. Are they using a different DVD technology than standard home
> burners? Is such technology accessible to amateurs like me? I want
> to burn a 93 minute film I made on Mini-DV onto one DVD, so I was
> wondering how to do that without sacrificing quality. Here's the
> specs when I export, if that helps:
>
<snip>

Thanks for all your feedback. It was quite helpful. I should have
mentioned that this DVD is going to be projected onto a movie screen, so
that may impact my need for good resolution. I'll be testing it out
this weekend, so we'll see.

In the mean time, I was able to get it to fit onto one DVD using the
following specs (the main change being 6mbps VBR 2 Pass and Dolby audio):

Video Summary:
Codec: MainConcept MPEG Video
Quality: 5.0 (high quality)
TV Standard: NTSC
Frame Rate [fps]: 29.97 drop frame
Field Order: Lower
Aspect Ratio: 4:3
Frame Width [pixels]: 720
Frame Height [pixels]: 480
Bitrate Encoding: VBR, 2 Pass
Minimum Bitrate [Mbps]: 3.8250 (low quality)
Target Bitrate [Mbps]: 6.0000 (medium quality)
Maximum Bitrate [Mbps]: 8.0000 (high quality)
M Frames: 3
N Frames: 15

Audio Summary:
Audio Format: Dolby
Codec: SurCode for Dolby Digital
Trial Uses Remaining: 2
Audio Coding Mode: 2/0 (L, R - Stereo)
Sampling Rate: 48 kHz
Data Rate (kb/s): 192
Bitstream Mode: Complete Main (CM)
Dialog Normalization: -27
Dynamic Compression Preset: Film Standard
Audio Production Information: Off
Copyright Exists: On
Original: On
Channel Bandwidth Lowpass Filter: On
RF Pre-Emphasis Filter: Off
DC Filter: On
Dolby Surround Mode: Off
Deemphasis: Off
Extended Bitstream Information: Off

Multiplexer Summary:
Multiplexing: None


Two followup questions:

1. I have the option of making the video "progressive." That would
change the above audio spec's field order to: "Field Order: None
(Progressive)." It doesn't change the file size much. Should I be
doing this?

2. Any recomendations on the Dolby settings? I'm just using default
"out of the box".

Thanks again!

Ken
February 4, 2005 1:11:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

PTravel wrote:

> <snip>
>
>I don't use the Mainconcept transcoder that comes with Premiere. Though
>it's fast, it doesn't produce the best quality results. I prefer tmpgenc,
>which, when properly tweaked, can produce stunning results with even
>2-hour-long videos. Note, however, that on my 3 GHz P4 machine, transcoding
>a 2-hour video using 2-pass VBR can take up to 24 hours. The result is
>worth it, however.
>
>
>
How would I invoke tmpgenc with Premiere? Is there a way to override
the default encoder? Also note that I do own Tmpgenc's DVD Author.
Does that come into the equation? I'm thinking that it does not, since
I would be encoding prior to using DVD Author. Is that right? I guess
I just need to know the steps for going from a Premiere project to a
Tmpgenc encoded output.

Thanks for any info!

Ken
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 9:03:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Ken" <kk_oop@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:HradnVE96_0mep_fRVn-hQ@rcn.net...
> PTravel wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>>
>>I don't use the Mainconcept transcoder that comes with Premiere. Though
>>it's fast, it doesn't produce the best quality results. I prefer tmpgenc,
>>which, when properly tweaked, can produce stunning results with even
>>2-hour-long videos. Note, however, that on my 3 GHz P4 machine,
>>transcoding
>>a 2-hour video using 2-pass VBR can take up to 24 hours. The result is
>>worth it, however.
>>
>>
> How would I invoke tmpgenc with Premiere? Is there a way to override the
> default encoder? Also note that I do own Tmpgenc's DVD Author. Does that
> come into the equation? I'm thinking that it does not, since I would be
> encoding prior to using DVD Author. Is that right? I guess I just need
> to know the steps for going from a Premiere project to a Tmpgenc encoded
> output.
>
> Thanks for any info!

There are probably ways to frame-serve from Premiere to tmpgenc. However, I
simply export my project as an AVI (using the Microsoft-DV codec) and then
run tmpgenc as a standalone. Premiere Pro is somewhat finicky (though
considerably more stable than 6.5), so I save often while I'm editing and
work towards getting a finished AVI. Once I've got the AVI, I can feed it
tmpgenc, which is so stable that I can even do other things while its
transcoding.


>
> Ken
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 8:51:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

PTRAVEL wrote:
> There are probably ways to frame-serve from Premiere to tmpgenc.

Try this one:
http://www.debugmode.com/frameserver/

Will save you time and disk space!


--
-WD
Anonymous
February 4, 2005 8:51:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Will Dormann" <wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:uuKdnUpBkMeqYZ7fRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> PTRAVEL wrote:
> > There are probably ways to frame-serve from Premiere to tmpgenc.
>
> Try this one:
> http://www.debugmode.com/frameserver/
>
> Will save you time and disk space!

Thanks! I'll try it.

>
>
> --
> -WD
Anonymous
February 17, 2005 2:37:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:40:17 -0500, Ken <kk_oop@yahoo.com> wrote:


>Two followup questions:
>
>1. I have the option of making the video "progressive." That would
>change the above audio spec's field order to: "Field Order: None
>(Progressive)." It doesn't change the file size much. Should I be
>doing this?

If your source footage was shot as interlaced video, then
leave it interlaced. Setting it as progressive won't really buy you
anything.

-----------------------------------------------------
Neil Nadelman arvy@navzr-genafyngbe.pbz (ROT13)
-----------------------------------------------------
I have no fears in life,
for I have already survived Theta-G!
!