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[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

WinXP pro
Vegas 5 Trial


I'm rendering 35 minutes of qt *.mov with transitions and titles to
what Vegas calls `uncompressed avi'.

The job is 90% complete and the file size is:
73.1 GB (78,539,632,128 bytes)

I'm not that experienced with this but doesn't that seem just a bit to
huge? The time factor seems rather long too. At 90% 4hr 05 minutes
have passed and estimated 4.5 hrs for %100

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Harry Putnam" <reader@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:uy8dxb3y4.fsf@newsguy.com...
> WinXP pro
> Vegas 5 Trial
>
>
> I'm rendering 35 minutes of qt *.mov with transitions and titles to
> what Vegas calls `uncompressed avi'.
>
> The job is 90% complete and the file size is:
> 73.1 GB (78,539,632,128 bytes)
>
> I'm not that experienced with this but doesn't that seem just a bit to
> huge? The time factor seems rather long too. At 90% 4hr 05 minutes
> have passed and estimated 4.5 hrs for %100

Why *uncompressed avi*?

Seems too large even for uncompressed, though.

If you just do the first 2 minutes does it work?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Harry Putnam" <reader@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:uy8dxb3y4.fsf@newsguy.com...
> WinXP pro
> Vegas 5 Trial
>
>
> I'm rendering 35 minutes of qt *.mov with transitions and titles to
> what Vegas calls `uncompressed avi'.
>
> The job is 90% complete and the file size is:
> 73.1 GB (78,539,632,128 bytes)
>
> I'm not that experienced with this but doesn't that seem just a bit to
> huge? The time factor seems rather long too. At 90% 4hr 05 minutes
> have passed and estimated 4.5 hrs for %100

No Way to tell if you don;t tell us what size the frames are and what frame
rate.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> writes:

[...]

>> I'm rendering 35 minutes of qt *.mov with transitions and titles to
>> what Vegas calls `uncompressed avi'.
>>
>> The job is 90% complete and the file size is:
>> 73.1 GB (78,539,632,128 bytes)
>>
>> I'm not that experienced with this but doesn't that seem just a bit to
>> huge? The time factor seems rather long too. At 90% 4hr 05 minutes
>> have passed and estimated 4.5 hrs for %100
>
> Why *uncompressed avi*?

[Aside: See file info furhter along in my reply below]

Well, my reasoning may be a little screwy to more experienced folds
but here is how it went:
I Have 3 NLE on board currently. My main choice up to now has been
Canopus Edius3. I also have Premiere Pro 1.5 and now trial Vegas5.

Of those, only Vegas handles the qt *.mov files I have a herd of. I
wanted to string these *.mov together with the necessary titles,
transitions etc.

To use Edius would require an initial transcoding to canopus DV to
really work well.

Premiere rejected the *.mov too so it wanted a converstion of some
kind.

Vegas handles the *.mov but I really just wanted to string them
together into an *.avi that Edius could use. Initially that was all I
was after. But I now see it is too time intensive so I've since
resolved to learn enough Vegas to just use it for mov files. And
finish them all the way in vegas.

So back to why uncompressed. Vegas doesn't offer to render in Canopus
DV. Only windows avi or uncompressed. So I guessed Edius would like
the uncompressed best.

> Seems too large even for uncompressed, though.
>
> If you just do the first 2 minutes does it work?

Not sure what you mean here... It worked for all 35 minutes. My
question was why so large. So yes it works but seems quite large.

Im rendering 2 minutes now but Vegas is so horribly slow, its 19
percent done and estimated time left is 20:10 but I'm not sure how
much of a slice I'n compressing. Vegas doesn't use normal in/out type
rendering. So not sure I've set it up right. I've marked off 2
minutes with their loop selection thingy. I didn't see any other
obvious way.

The estimated completion time keeps rising too.

"nap" <gospam@yourself.com> writes:

> "Harry Putnam" <reader@newsguy.com> wrote in message
> news:uy8dxb3y4.fsf@newsguy.com...
>> WinXP pro
>> Vegas 5 Trial
>>
>>
>> I'm rendering 35 minutes of qt *.mov with transitions and titles to
>> what Vegas calls `uncompressed avi'.
>>
>> The job is 90% complete and the file size is:
>> 73.1 GB (78,539,632,128 bytes)
>>
>> I'm not that experienced with this but doesn't that seem just a bit to
>> huge? The time factor seems rather long too. At 90% 4hr 05 minutes
>> have passed and estimated 4.5 hrs for %100
>
> No Way to tell if you don;t tell us what size the frames are and what frame
> rate.

The completed file loaded in VirtualDub shows:
720x480, 29,970fps
63177 Frames (35:08:00)
Uncompressed RGB32
Data Rate: 331445 kbps (0.00% Overhead)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

reader@newsguy.com writes:

> Im rendering 2 minutes now but Vegas is so horribly slow, its 19
> percent done and estimated time left is 20:10 but I'm not sure how
> much of a slice I'n compressing. Vegas doesn't use normal in/out type
> rendering. So not sure I've set it up right. I've marked off 2
> minutes with their loop selection thingy. I didn't see any other
> obvious way.
>
> The estimated completion time keeps rising too.

It finished in 45 minutes. The resulting video is 2 minutes long.

VirtualDub has this to say about the file:

720x480, 29,970 fps
3610 frames
uncompressed RGB32
331445 kbps

 

[rs]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Don't use the "uncompressed" setting. I believe there is a DV setting. That
is what you want. The confusion is thinking that raw material captured from
a DV Cam is uncompressed.


<reader@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:uis50fmhl.fsf@newsguy.com...
> "Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> writes:
>
> [...]
>
> >> I'm rendering 35 minutes of qt *.mov with transitions and titles to
> >> what Vegas calls `uncompressed avi'.
> >>
> >> The job is 90% complete and the file size is:
> >> 73.1 GB (78,539,632,128 bytes)
> >>
> >> I'm not that experienced with this but doesn't that seem just a bit to
> >> huge? The time factor seems rather long too. At 90% 4hr 05 minutes
> >> have passed and estimated 4.5 hrs for %100
> >
> > Why *uncompressed avi*?
>
> [Aside: See file info furhter along in my reply below]
>
> Well, my reasoning may be a little screwy to more experienced folds
> but here is how it went:
> I Have 3 NLE on board currently. My main choice up to now has been
> Canopus Edius3. I also have Premiere Pro 1.5 and now trial Vegas5.
>
> Of those, only Vegas handles the qt *.mov files I have a herd of. I
> wanted to string these *.mov together with the necessary titles,
> transitions etc.
>
> To use Edius would require an initial transcoding to canopus DV to
> really work well.
>
> Premiere rejected the *.mov too so it wanted a converstion of some
> kind.
>
> Vegas handles the *.mov but I really just wanted to string them
> together into an *.avi that Edius could use. Initially that was all I
> was after. But I now see it is too time intensive so I've since
> resolved to learn enough Vegas to just use it for mov files. And
> finish them all the way in vegas.
>
> So back to why uncompressed. Vegas doesn't offer to render in Canopus
> DV. Only windows avi or uncompressed. So I guessed Edius would like
> the uncompressed best.
>
> > Seems too large even for uncompressed, though.
> >
> > If you just do the first 2 minutes does it work?
>
> Not sure what you mean here... It worked for all 35 minutes. My
> question was why so large. So yes it works but seems quite large.
>
> Im rendering 2 minutes now but Vegas is so horribly slow, its 19
> percent done and estimated time left is 20:10 but I'm not sure how
> much of a slice I'n compressing. Vegas doesn't use normal in/out type
> rendering. So not sure I've set it up right. I've marked off 2
> minutes with their loop selection thingy. I didn't see any other
> obvious way.
>
> The estimated completion time keeps rising too.
>
> "nap" <gospam@yourself.com> writes:
>
> > "Harry Putnam" <reader@newsguy.com> wrote in message
> > news:uy8dxb3y4.fsf@newsguy.com...
> >> WinXP pro
> >> Vegas 5 Trial
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm rendering 35 minutes of qt *.mov with transitions and titles to
> >> what Vegas calls `uncompressed avi'.
> >>
> >> The job is 90% complete and the file size is:
> >> 73.1 GB (78,539,632,128 bytes)
> >>
> >> I'm not that experienced with this but doesn't that seem just a bit to
> >> huge? The time factor seems rather long too. At 90% 4hr 05 minutes
> >> have passed and estimated 4.5 hrs for %100
> >
> > No Way to tell if you don;t tell us what size the frames are and what
frame
> > rate.
>
> The completed file loaded in VirtualDub shows:
> 720x480, 29,970fps
> 63177 Frames (35:08:00)
> Uncompressed RGB32
> Data Rate: 331445 kbps (0.00% Overhead)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"RS" <idontthinkso@mail.com> writes:

> Don't use the "uncompressed" setting. I believe there is a DV setting. That
> is what you want. The confusion is thinking that raw material captured from
> a DV Cam is uncompressed.
>

I knew about that but thought raw would be most tollerable to Canopus
Edius. What my question was about is if the file is unreasonably
large given my settings? I thought maybe something was wrong.

Now I've tested Vegas' raw (lossless) and dv-avi output in Edius and
it turns out the DV works fine but the raw doesn't play well. It
constantly trips an error in edius about not being able to play in
real time and needing to be rendered in edius.

And the difference in size is a whopping 100 to 1...

Lossless avi = 4.66 GB (5,014,051,328 bytes)
DV-avi = 38 MB (459,535,872 bytes)

So the lossless avi turns out to be a massive pig on the file system
AND doesn't play well either...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"nap" <gospam@yourself.com> writes:

>> VirtualDub has this to say about the file:
>>
>> 720x480, 29,970 fps
>> 3610 frames
>> uncompressed RGB32
>> 331445 kbps
>
> Doesn;t need to be a 32 bit file. Looks like you have an alpha channel in
> there. Render 24 bit

I noticed some other ntsc dv settings but didn't recognize what is
meant by `NTSC DV (Inserting 2-3 pulldown)
And a few others containing the `pulldown' comment, so I steered clear
of them.

Which settings are you refering to?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

<reader@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:uacqcfkes.fsf@newsguy.com...
> reader@newsguy.com writes:
>
>> Im rendering 2 minutes now but Vegas is so horribly slow, its 19
>> percent done and estimated time left is 20:10 but I'm not sure how
>> much of a slice I'n compressing. Vegas doesn't use normal in/out type
>> rendering. So not sure I've set it up right. I've marked off 2
>> minutes with their loop selection thingy. I didn't see any other
>> obvious way.
>>
>> The estimated completion time keeps rising too.
>
> It finished in 45 minutes. The resulting video is 2 minutes long.
>
> VirtualDub has this to say about the file:
>
> 720x480, 29,970 fps
> 3610 frames
> uncompressed RGB32
> 331445 kbps

Doesn;t need to be a 32 bit file. Looks like you have an alpha channel in
there. Render 24 bit

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

reader@newsguy.com wrote:
> "nap" <gospam@yourself.com> writes:
>
>>> VirtualDub has this to say about the file:
>>>
>>> 720x480, 29,970 fps
>>> 3610 frames
>>> uncompressed RGB32
>>> 331445 kbps
>>
>> Doesn;t need to be a 32 bit file. Looks like you have an alpha
>> channel in there. Render 24 bit
>
> I noticed some other ntsc dv settings but didn't recognize what is
> meant by `NTSC DV (Inserting 2-3 pulldown)
> And a few others containing the `pulldown' comment, so I steered clear
> of them.


Not sure that nap uses Vegas so I'll take a stab at this. To render to
regular dv avi, simpy select "Video for Windows (*.avi) in the "Save as
type" box and make sure "NTSC DV" is displayed in the "Template" box. To
see if your Canopus codec can be used, select "Custom - Video" and click in
the "Video format" box. It's normally set to "NTSC DV" but, if your Canopus
codec is recognized as a valid option, it will show up here. If it is,
select it. The "Configure" box may then become active allowing you to
further customize it. THis can then be save as a preset by entering a name
in the "Template" box at the top of this screen and clicking the floppy disk
icon to the right.
BTW, the DV codec that Sony uses is recognized as being one of the best
available so, even if your Canopus codec doesn't show up, don't hesitate to
use the default. HTH.

Mike

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

<reader@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:uwttgduao.fsf@newsguy.com...
> "nap" <gospam@yourself.com> writes:
>
>>> VirtualDub has this to say about the file:
>>>
>>> 720x480, 29,970 fps
>>> 3610 frames
>>> uncompressed RGB32
>>> 331445 kbps
>>
>> Doesn;t need to be a 32 bit file. Looks like you have an alpha channel in
>> there. Render 24 bit
>
> I noticed some other ntsc dv settings but didn't recognize what is
> meant by `NTSC DV (Inserting 2-3 pulldown)
> And a few others containing the `pulldown' comment, so I steered clear
> of them.
>
> Which settings are you refering to?


If you are rendering 32 bit then you are rendering 4 8 bit channels when you
only need 3 at 8 bits each. So that will save 1/4 of your file.

The DV setting is more appropriate if you are finishing in DV. Or if you
have captured DV.

DO a google on 3:2 pulldown to learn more about it. It only applies if you
are working with 24 frame footage.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Mike Kujbida" <kujfam-misleadingspam@sympatico.ca> writes:


[...]

Harry wrote:
>> I noticed some other ntsc dv settings but didn't recognize what is
>> meant by `NTSC DV (Inserting 2-3 pulldown)
>> And a few others containing the `pulldown' comment, so I steered clear
>> of them.
>

Mike wrote:
> Not sure that nap uses Vegas so I'll take a stab at this. To render to
> regular dv avi, simpy select "Video for Windows (*.avi) in the "Save as
> type" box and make sure "NTSC DV" is displayed in the "Template" box. To
> see if your Canopus codec can be used, select "Custom - Video" and click in
> the "Video format" box. It's normally set to "NTSC DV" but, if your Canopus
> codec is recognized as a valid option, it will show up here. If it is,
> select it. The "Configure" box may then become active allowing you to
> further customize it. THis can then be save as a preset by entering a name
> in the "Template" box at the top of this screen and clicking the floppy disk
> icon to the right.

Ahh here is the problem... I hadn't even noticed what you point out
above, when `custom' is selected. On my setup when you click on
`custom', it opens the `default' project tab. When you then select
the `video' tab the screen doesn't appear any different. I guess I
gave up too soon not realizing there was more to come. It takes a full
10 seconds here between clicking the video tab and seeing the actual
config screen containing the `video format' dialog. All I had been
seeing was the same screen displayed on project tab.

The canopus codec does appear there.

> BTW, the DV codec that Sony uses is recognized as being one of the best
> available so, even if your Canopus codec doesn't show up, don't hesitate to
> use the default. HTH.

Just for clarity here:
I was using vegas only because it handles *.mov natively. My main
editor is Edius3 so I wanted to string together a series of *.movs
and render them in CanopusDV for further work inside edius3.

This because I've used Edius enough to be somewhat familiar with where
stuff is and how to do most things I need. I was just taking
advantage of Sonys' generous trial offer to get some work done on
*.mov that would hae had to be converted somehow for canopus anyway.

Edius3 works best with canopus DV rendered *.avi. So that was the
only reason I preferred it over Vegas default. I see now that Edius
will work fine with material rendered with the Vegas default too.

I'm seeing now that I'll do better just staying in Vegas when working
with *.mov.. finish it right there, and save an extra render.

I'm completely unfamiliar with vegas so it seemed I was loosing too
much time learning to use it, but I think I've got enough figured out
now for these simple jobs. One title and 8-10 transitions into and
out of a series of text subTitles. Each set is about 35 minutes and
maybe 8-10 sets to be done.