Matrox RX100 audio sync problem on DV capture

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Hi,
I've been using a Matrox RX100 for over 2 years with no
audio sync problems when capturing via through the 1394
interface. That is - DV cable from camera into the 1394
socket on the RX100, and capture using Premiere.

The system seemed to die a few weeks back, so re-installed
Win XP Pro, but no luck. So replaced the Intel motherboard
with an Asus that's as close as I could get to Matrox's
"recommended" list, and again installed XP Pro (SP2). All
very time-consuming and painful.

Yesterday, I put the finishing touches to a 1 hour video
(edited in Premiere 6.5), encoded it to MPEG-1 via TMPGEnc,
and suddenly noticed that the audio was out of sync by
around 1 second at the end.

Assumed that my editing must have stuffed up, so re-captured
to a new file. But with no editing at all, it still had the
drift problem - a second out after about 45 minutes. Closed
Premiere, dropped the raw AVI into Virtual Dub - same problem.
(I don't always believe Premiere's monitor window).

Part of my problem is that I had to replace the DV-cam at
about the same time the PC went west. I was using a little Sony
TRV120E, but that died, so went and bought a lovely Panasonic
NV-GS400 (triple CCD - lovely - but work paid for it :-)

I've updated everything I could think of, driver-wise ...
latest Matrox Xtools, anything I could find for Premiere
(very little, BTW), etc.

Basically, though, I'm just perplexed! I wouldn't have
thought things COULD get out of sync on a DV capture.
With analogue and a separate sound-card, sure - but this is
via 1394 straight into an integrated AVI file.

PS: this may only mean anything to other RX100 owners) -
I no longer get a separate WAV file for the audio when I
do a capture. I've always found that really handy, but
no more (with the latest Matrox X-tools for Premiere 6.5)

Any thought much appreciated,

Tony Sanderson (CSIRO)
6 answers Last reply
More about matrox rx100 audio sync problem capture
  1. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    First off, the software/drivers for the RT.X100 is a different version for
    Premiere 6.5 than those for Premiere Pro 1.0 and/or 1.5. Be sure you are
    using the correct version.

    In both cases for 6.5 or Pro versions the Matrox software should offer you a
    chance to test/sync the drive being used for capture. This is usually done
    when you have chosen analog inputs from the break-out box. If you did not do
    this, it is highly recommended you set the input to analog and let the
    Matrox software do its' thing.

    Also, the speed and reliability of you drive is dependent on how full it is.
    Even Serial ATA drives become sluggish when they are near to over half full.
    I have a 600GB Serial ATA VideoRAID drive which fails to keep up when there
    is 360GB of video on it. I can keep it running more smoothly by making sure
    I defrag it before every capture session. Even then it does not give me out
    of sync audio.

    I have built over 50 Matrox RT.X100 systems beginning with the first P4
    2.0GHz 400MHz FSB mainboards, and on up through the 533MHz to 1066MHz FSB
    boards. Each and every time I have made sure the Matrox software tests and
    syncs the drive before sending it out to the customer.

    As Windows XP does its' updates things in the OS change somewhat. If you
    have previously run the Hotfix from Matrox it may be good to re-install that
    Hotfix. Also, make sure you have the latest version of DirectX installed on
    the system.

    If you got a mainboard that was "close" to one of the Asus recommended by
    Matrox, make sure you have placed it in the slot for the true recommended
    Asus board. My knee-jerk guess it that when the original installation of the
    RT.X100 was done the test/sync was also done. Why the card seemed to change
    in mid-stream of use may be due to some software, hardware or driver update
    recently installed on the system.

    Ensure that DMA is selected on the IDE channel that drive is on. Keep the
    thing defragged, especially when it is near to over half full.

    One last thing. I just spent some time last evening helping a local customer
    with a previous Matrox RT card. He was experiencing some strange slow downs
    upon export from the timeline. The timeline was filled with DV-AVI files for
    the most part, but some had been captured as DVCPRO files and some as MPEG-2
    I-Frame. This slowed down the export because of the need to convert the MPEG
    and DVCPRO files to normal DV-AVI.

    Sometimes when in a hurry the settings get changed and there are unexplained
    differences in what you see and experience. I do it myself sometimes and
    would swear everything was set up properly. After all, I never make a
    mistake as far as I am concerned, or at least that's what I would like to
    think. Look closely at what you are doing and what the setting really are.

    It is not uncommon for a customer to load the Matrox preset 999 times out of
    1000, but when they inadvertently choose simple 1394 48kHz it throws them
    because their realtime for the X100 is suddenly gone. Not pointing a finger
    but we all can make the mistake of assuming we have always done everything
    by the book.

    Keep sending your input on what is happening and I will attempt to help
    where I can. Hope this has helped.

    "Tony Sanderson" <san149@csiro.au> wrote in message
    news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0508021827390.23240@dog.minerals.csiro.au...
    > Hi,
    > I've been using a Matrox RX100 for over 2 years with no
    > audio sync problems when capturing via through the 1394
    > interface. That is - DV cable from camera into the 1394
    > socket on the RX100, and capture using Premiere.
    >
    > The system seemed to die a few weeks back, so re-installed
    > Win XP Pro, but no luck. So replaced the Intel motherboard
    > with an Asus that's as close as I could get to Matrox's
    > "recommended" list, and again installed XP Pro (SP2). All
    > very time-consuming and painful.
    >
    > Yesterday, I put the finishing touches to a 1 hour video
    > (edited in Premiere 6.5), encoded it to MPEG-1 via TMPGEnc,
    > and suddenly noticed that the audio was out of sync by
    > around 1 second at the end.
    >
    > Assumed that my editing must have stuffed up, so re-captured
    > to a new file. But with no editing at all, it still had the
    > drift problem - a second out after about 45 minutes. Closed
    > Premiere, dropped the raw AVI into Virtual Dub - same problem.
    > (I don't always believe Premiere's monitor window).
    >
    > Part of my problem is that I had to replace the DV-cam at
    > about the same time the PC went west. I was using a little Sony
    > TRV120E, but that died, so went and bought a lovely Panasonic
    > NV-GS400 (triple CCD - lovely - but work paid for it :-)
    >
    > I've updated everything I could think of, driver-wise ...
    > latest Matrox Xtools, anything I could find for Premiere
    > (very little, BTW), etc.
    >
    > Basically, though, I'm just perplexed! I wouldn't have
    > thought things COULD get out of sync on a DV capture.
    > With analogue and a separate sound-card, sure - but this is
    > via 1394 straight into an integrated AVI file.
    >
    > PS: this may only mean anything to other RX100 owners) -
    > I no longer get a separate WAV file for the audio when I
    > do a capture. I've always found that really handy, but
    > no more (with the latest Matrox X-tools for Premiere 6.5)
    >
    > Any thought much appreciated,
    >
    > Tony Sanderson (CSIRO)
  2. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Innocent Bystander wrote:

    > First off, the software/drivers for the RT.X100 is a different version for
    > Premiere 6.5 than those for Premiere Pro ...

    Thanks for the comments, IB. I only loaded down the Premiere 6.5 drivers
    from Matrox, but they were a later version than the ones I had on the
    earlier system with the Intel M/B.

    From memory, when I tried to run the hotfix, it came back and told me that
    it wasn't needed for XP SP2 but I'll recheck that tomorrow when I'm at work
    (currently typing this up from my home server via Pine :-)

    Most curious about your comment re doing a sync run - the doco specifically
    says that this calibration process is only needed for analogue capture (due
    to, I assume, analogue audio being captured via a separate sound board with
    a clock frequency that's typically out by 1% or so), but from what you're
    suggesting, it may also effect DV capture audio sync? Anyway, quick enough
    to check, and I'll try that and do another 1 hour capture run after I check
    into all the other points you've raised. I'm not sure about the slot number
    for the RX100 in the new Asus board - it could even be in the wrong one.

    Your point re Windows updates isn't lost on me either - at work, these
    drift through almost weekly, so maybe I ought to re-install Premiere
    and the Xtools as well before doing another test run, just in case.
    (And then do a re-cal of course)

    The fact that you're building systems for clients in quantity makes me
    feel somewhat more confident - I'll get back in a day or so after I've
    gone through your list of suggestions. This has me intrigued - as I said,
    I've always assumed that DV capture would be pretty much "yay or nay".
    It's not reporting any dropped frames, but in case, I always thought
    audio-sync problems were only possible with analogue grabs! Puzzling.

    Cheers,

    Tony (CSIRO)
  3. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    "Tony at Bluehaze" <tonys@bluehaze.com.au> wrote in message
    news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0508030215100.30078-100000@art.bluehaze.com.au...
    > On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Innocent Bystander wrote:
    >
    > Most curious about your comment re doing a sync run - the doco
    > specifically
    > says that this calibration process is only needed for analogue capture
    > (due
    > to, I assume, analogue audio being captured via a separate sound board
    > with
    > a clock frequency that's typically out by 1% or so), but from what you're
    > suggesting, it may also effect DV capture audio sync? Anyway, quick
    > enough
    > to check, and I'll try that and do another 1 hour capture run after I
    > check
    > into all the other points you've raised. I'm not sure about the slot
    > number
    > for the RX100 in the new Asus board - it could even be in the wrong one.
    >

    Although the calibration is for analog it still keeps the drives in line for
    all captures. As an added note: the X100, and all the previous RT cards from
    Matrox, capture analog video using the same settings of DV video and do not
    use the soundcard for audio capture.

    > Your point re Windows updates isn't lost on me either - at work, these
    > drift through almost weekly, so maybe I ought to re-install Premiere
    > and the Xtools as well before doing another test run, just in case.
    > (And then do a re-cal of course)
    >

    My suggestion is to visit the Matrox System Recommendations page to double
    check slot configuration. Check for any missed software for Premiere 6.5
    setup.

    Uninstall Xtools first. Restart the system. Always click Cancel for Hardware
    Wizard. Uninstall Premiere. Restart the system. Reinstall Premiere. Restart.
    When the system comes up and asks for X100 drivers using Hardware Wizard
    once again click Cancel. The Xtools installs drivers for the card. System
    will restart. Go back to Xtools setup screen and install secondary effects
    package and plug-ins where necessary.

    Update your DirectX to latest version. Update your VGA drivers. Check for
    BIOS updates for your mainboard. Did you install all the Intel stuff off the
    Asus CD just after installing XP? Are there drivers on that CD for your
    controllers you may have let XP load generic drivers for? Keep those hard
    drives really cool. I always install individual hard drive coolers on each
    unit. Try not to stack drives close together if possible. Give em room to
    keep cool.

    Don't overclock past 10% on LGA 775 and Prescott processors without major
    cooling. They run really hot to begin with. I would suggest liquid processor
    cooling systems for these processors, and a case which allows a large number
    of fans. The Thermaltake Xaser cases allow up to 7 total fans. Pull air in
    the front out the sides and back. Even with all of this my LGA 775 3.8GHz
    hits 132 degrees during dual pass MPEG-2 VBR encodes. Think about what temp
    a Prescott 3.4GHz hits with only the Intel fan and three onboard case fans.
    Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 140 to 150.

    > The fact that you're building systems for clients in quantity makes me
    > feel somewhat more confident - I'll get back in a day or so after I've
    > gone through your list of suggestions. This has me intrigued - as I said,
    > I've always assumed that DV capture would be pretty much "yay or nay".
    > It's not reporting any dropped frames, but in case, I always thought
    > audio-sync problems were only possible with analogue grabs! Puzzling.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Tony (CSIRO)
    >
  4. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Innocent Bystander wrote:

    > My suggestion is to visit the Matrox System Recommendations page to double
    > check slot configuration. Check for any missed software for Premiere 6.5
    > setup.

    A followup here - I did discover that I had both the RTX100
    and the Audigy cards in different slots to those used by Matrox
    (for the Asus P4C800EE deluxe m/b). So I uninstalled everything,
    moved them to the correct slots and reinstalled. Slow and painful
    (Matrox wants a reboot after every action, even during the uninstall).

    > Uninstall Xtools first. Restart the system. Always click Cancel for Hardware
    > Wizard. Uninstall Premiere. Restart the system. Reinstall Premiere. Restart.
    > When the system comes up and asks for X100 drivers using Hardware Wizard
    > once again click Cancel.
    > ...

    Thanks for all that detail, IB (won't quote you in full). Did all
    that - latest mb drivers, chipset, matrox rtx100, matrox g550 vga,
    .... the works. These things were pretty much up-to-date anyway.
    Then took the matrox drivers (via Xtools stuff) up to their latest
    available ones that correspond to Premiere 6.5 - build 4263. Did
    a matrox-tools audio-sync run (10 minutes). Then did a 20 minute
    test grab on the DV-in, and - no go. Audio out of sync by 4-5 frames
    (about 1/6 sec on PAL, 25 fps) at the 20 minute mark - quite visible.

    Then did the grab without Premiere - just using Matrox Xtools. Same
    result - audio sync problem visible after 20 minutes.

    Getting really fed up by that stage, so uninstalled Xtools and
    Premiere and re-installed BUT this time I left the Matrox Xtools
    sitting at the original CD version that came with card 2 1/2 years ago.
    Another audio-cal done, then a 2nd DV grab for about 20 minutes and
    guess what - audio sync problem now gone. Did a longer grab (1 hour),
    and still no audio sync problem.

    So that's where it stands at the moment. Back to the original and
    somewhat flakey Premiere 6.5 + Matrox RTX100 combination with all
    original software as per the CDs that came with the card. Upgrading
    to the latest available Xtools (4263) to suit Premiere 6.5 breaks this
    system for audio sync on a DV capture of all things. I'm just
    amazed. And very disappointed - the latest Matrox stuff is far
    more solid (hardly any crashes occurred) and it has lots of nice, new
    transitions.

    Unlike many, I DON'T like the integrated AVI arrangement, since I
    always post-process the WAVs before making MPEGs with TMPGenc. But I
    could live with that one. Not so with the audio drifting out of sync
    on a DV capture though!

    Tony
  5. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    "Tony at Bluehaze" <tonys@bluehaze.com.au> wrote in message
    news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0508151651360.30734-100000@art.bluehaze.com.au...
    > On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Innocent Bystander wrote:
    >
    >> My suggestion is to visit the Matrox System Recommendations page to
    >> double
    >> check slot configuration. Check for any missed software for Premiere 6.5
    >> setup.
    >
    > A followup here - I did discover that I had both the RTX100
    > and the Audigy cards in different slots to those used by Matrox
    > (for the Asus P4C800EE deluxe m/b). So I uninstalled everything,
    > moved them to the correct slots and reinstalled. Slow and painful
    > (Matrox wants a reboot after every action, even during the uninstall).
    >
    >> Uninstall Xtools first. Restart the system. Always click Cancel for
    >> Hardware
    >> Wizard. Uninstall Premiere. Restart the system. Reinstall Premiere.
    >> Restart.
    >> When the system comes up and asks for X100 drivers using Hardware Wizard
    >> once again click Cancel.
    >> ...
    >
    > Thanks for all that detail, IB (won't quote you in full). Did all
    > that - latest mb drivers, chipset, matrox rtx100, matrox g550 vga,
    > ... the works. These things were pretty much up-to-date anyway.
    > Then took the matrox drivers (via Xtools stuff) up to their latest
    > available ones that correspond to Premiere 6.5 - build 4263. Did
    > a matrox-tools audio-sync run (10 minutes). Then did a 20 minute
    > test grab on the DV-in, and - no go. Audio out of sync by 4-5 frames
    > (about 1/6 sec on PAL, 25 fps) at the 20 minute mark - quite visible.
    >
    > Then did the grab without Premiere - just using Matrox Xtools. Same
    > result - audio sync problem visible after 20 minutes.
    >
    > Getting really fed up by that stage, so uninstalled Xtools and
    > Premiere and re-installed BUT this time I left the Matrox Xtools
    > sitting at the original CD version that came with card 2 1/2 years ago.
    > Another audio-cal done, then a 2nd DV grab for about 20 minutes and
    > guess what - audio sync problem now gone. Did a longer grab (1 hour),
    > and still no audio sync problem.
    >
    > So that's where it stands at the moment. Back to the original and
    > somewhat flakey Premiere 6.5 + Matrox RTX100 combination with all
    > original software as per the CDs that came with the card. Upgrading
    > to the latest available Xtools (4263) to suit Premiere 6.5 breaks this
    > system for audio sync on a DV capture of all things. I'm just
    > amazed. And very disappointed - the latest Matrox stuff is far
    > more solid (hardly any crashes occurred) and it has lots of nice, new
    > transitions.
    >
    > Unlike many, I DON'T like the integrated AVI arrangement, since I
    > always post-process the WAVs before making MPEGs with TMPGenc. But I
    > could live with that one. Not so with the audio drifting out of sync
    > on a DV capture though!
    >
    > Tony
    >

    They always boast how, its all compatable with the adobe stuff.

    Then there is the motherboard compatability issue. It will only work on
    these blah, blah, mbs...

    All the fiddling you need to do...

    xman
  6. Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    "xmradio" <xmradio@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:ZaudnR1E2f1hdJ3eRVn-iQ@giganews.com...
    >
    > "Tony at Bluehaze" <tonys@bluehaze.com.au> wrote in message
    > news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0508151651360.30734-100000@art.bluehaze.com.au...
    >> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Innocent Bystander wrote:
    >>
    >>> My suggestion is to visit the Matrox System Recommendations page to
    >>> double
    >>> check slot configuration. Check for any missed software for Premiere 6.5
    >>> setup.
    >>
    >> A followup here - I did discover that I had both the RTX100
    >> and the Audigy cards in different slots to those used by Matrox
    >> (for the Asus P4C800EE deluxe m/b). So I uninstalled everything,
    >> moved them to the correct slots and reinstalled. Slow and painful
    >> (Matrox wants a reboot after every action, even during the uninstall).
    >>
    >>> Uninstall Xtools first. Restart the system. Always click Cancel for
    >>> Hardware
    >>> Wizard. Uninstall Premiere. Restart the system. Reinstall Premiere.
    >>> Restart.
    >>> When the system comes up and asks for X100 drivers using Hardware Wizard
    >>> once again click Cancel.
    >>> ...
    >>
    >> Thanks for all that detail, IB (won't quote you in full). Did all
    >> that - latest mb drivers, chipset, matrox rtx100, matrox g550 vga,
    >> ... the works. These things were pretty much up-to-date anyway.
    >> Then took the matrox drivers (via Xtools stuff) up to their latest
    >> available ones that correspond to Premiere 6.5 - build 4263. Did
    >> a matrox-tools audio-sync run (10 minutes). Then did a 20 minute
    >> test grab on the DV-in, and - no go. Audio out of sync by 4-5 frames
    >> (about 1/6 sec on PAL, 25 fps) at the 20 minute mark - quite visible.
    >>
    >> Then did the grab without Premiere - just using Matrox Xtools. Same
    >> result - audio sync problem visible after 20 minutes.
    >>
    >> Getting really fed up by that stage, so uninstalled Xtools and
    >> Premiere and re-installed BUT this time I left the Matrox Xtools
    >> sitting at the original CD version that came with card 2 1/2 years ago.
    >> Another audio-cal done, then a 2nd DV grab for about 20 minutes and
    >> guess what - audio sync problem now gone. Did a longer grab (1 hour),
    >> and still no audio sync problem.
    >>
    >> So that's where it stands at the moment. Back to the original and
    >> somewhat flakey Premiere 6.5 + Matrox RTX100 combination with all
    >> original software as per the CDs that came with the card. Upgrading
    >> to the latest available Xtools (4263) to suit Premiere 6.5 breaks this
    >> system for audio sync on a DV capture of all things. I'm just
    >> amazed. And very disappointed - the latest Matrox stuff is far
    >> more solid (hardly any crashes occurred) and it has lots of nice, new
    >> transitions.
    >>
    >> Unlike many, I DON'T like the integrated AVI arrangement, since I
    >> always post-process the WAVs before making MPEGs with TMPGenc. But I
    >> could live with that one. Not so with the audio drifting out of sync
    >> on a DV capture though!
    >>
    >> Tony
    >>
    >
    > They always boast how, its all compatable with the adobe stuff.
    >
    > Then there is the motherboard compatability issue. It will only work on
    > these blah, blah, mbs...
    >
    > All the fiddling you need to do...
    >
    > xman
    >
    >
    >

    Yeah, and even worse is that the rtx100 hardware will not even handle HDV
    video which is now supported in the adobe software as of the Premiere Pro
    1.5.1 update, the matrox site says it will only work with software only
    editing hdv clips and realtime hardware features will only work if using
    strictly SD video only on the timeline, so the card is basically obsolete
    already, in my opinion.
    They could have said, future drivers are being developed to handle hdv
    clips, but they didn't. So maybe futue hardware is being developed?
    More likely a solution as these chips are dated already. :)
    AnthonyR.
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