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Matrox RX100 audio sync problem on DV capture

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  • Matrox
  • Audio
  • Graphics
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Anonymous
August 2, 2005 12:54:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Hi,
I've been using a Matrox RX100 for over 2 years with no
audio sync problems when capturing via through the 1394
interface. That is - DV cable from camera into the 1394
socket on the RX100, and capture using Premiere.

The system seemed to die a few weeks back, so re-installed
Win XP Pro, but no luck. So replaced the Intel motherboard
with an Asus that's as close as I could get to Matrox's
"recommended" list, and again installed XP Pro (SP2). All
very time-consuming and painful.

Yesterday, I put the finishing touches to a 1 hour video
(edited in Premiere 6.5), encoded it to MPEG-1 via TMPGEnc,
and suddenly noticed that the audio was out of sync by
around 1 second at the end.

Assumed that my editing must have stuffed up, so re-captured
to a new file. But with no editing at all, it still had the
drift problem - a second out after about 45 minutes. Closed
Premiere, dropped the raw AVI into Virtual Dub - same problem.
(I don't always believe Premiere's monitor window).

Part of my problem is that I had to replace the DV-cam at
about the same time the PC went west. I was using a little Sony
TRV120E, but that died, so went and bought a lovely Panasonic
NV-GS400 (triple CCD - lovely - but work paid for it :-)

I've updated everything I could think of, driver-wise ...
latest Matrox Xtools, anything I could find for Premiere
(very little, BTW), etc.

Basically, though, I'm just perplexed! I wouldn't have
thought things COULD get out of sync on a DV capture.
With analogue and a separate sound-card, sure - but this is
via 1394 straight into an integrated AVI file.

PS: this may only mean anything to other RX100 owners) -
I no longer get a separate WAV file for the audio when I
do a capture. I've always found that really handy, but
no more (with the latest Matrox X-tools for Premiere 6.5)

Any thought much appreciated,

Tony Sanderson (CSIRO)

More about : matrox rx100 audio sync problem capture

Anonymous
August 2, 2005 6:41:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

First off, the software/drivers for the RT.X100 is a different version for
Premiere 6.5 than those for Premiere Pro 1.0 and/or 1.5. Be sure you are
using the correct version.

In both cases for 6.5 or Pro versions the Matrox software should offer you a
chance to test/sync the drive being used for capture. This is usually done
when you have chosen analog inputs from the break-out box. If you did not do
this, it is highly recommended you set the input to analog and let the
Matrox software do its' thing.

Also, the speed and reliability of you drive is dependent on how full it is.
Even Serial ATA drives become sluggish when they are near to over half full.
I have a 600GB Serial ATA VideoRAID drive which fails to keep up when there
is 360GB of video on it. I can keep it running more smoothly by making sure
I defrag it before every capture session. Even then it does not give me out
of sync audio.

I have built over 50 Matrox RT.X100 systems beginning with the first P4
2.0GHz 400MHz FSB mainboards, and on up through the 533MHz to 1066MHz FSB
boards. Each and every time I have made sure the Matrox software tests and
syncs the drive before sending it out to the customer.

As Windows XP does its' updates things in the OS change somewhat. If you
have previously run the Hotfix from Matrox it may be good to re-install that
Hotfix. Also, make sure you have the latest version of DirectX installed on
the system.

If you got a mainboard that was "close" to one of the Asus recommended by
Matrox, make sure you have placed it in the slot for the true recommended
Asus board. My knee-jerk guess it that when the original installation of the
RT.X100 was done the test/sync was also done. Why the card seemed to change
in mid-stream of use may be due to some software, hardware or driver update
recently installed on the system.

Ensure that DMA is selected on the IDE channel that drive is on. Keep the
thing defragged, especially when it is near to over half full.

One last thing. I just spent some time last evening helping a local customer
with a previous Matrox RT card. He was experiencing some strange slow downs
upon export from the timeline. The timeline was filled with DV-AVI files for
the most part, but some had been captured as DVCPRO files and some as MPEG-2
I-Frame. This slowed down the export because of the need to convert the MPEG
and DVCPRO files to normal DV-AVI.

Sometimes when in a hurry the settings get changed and there are unexplained
differences in what you see and experience. I do it myself sometimes and
would swear everything was set up properly. After all, I never make a
mistake as far as I am concerned, or at least that's what I would like to
think. Look closely at what you are doing and what the setting really are.

It is not uncommon for a customer to load the Matrox preset 999 times out of
1000, but when they inadvertently choose simple 1394 48kHz it throws them
because their realtime for the X100 is suddenly gone. Not pointing a finger
but we all can make the mistake of assuming we have always done everything
by the book.

Keep sending your input on what is happening and I will attempt to help
where I can. Hope this has helped.

"Tony Sanderson" <san149@csiro.au> wrote in message
news:p ine.LNX.4.58.0508021827390.23240@dog.minerals.csiro.au...
> Hi,
> I've been using a Matrox RX100 for over 2 years with no
> audio sync problems when capturing via through the 1394
> interface. That is - DV cable from camera into the 1394
> socket on the RX100, and capture using Premiere.
>
> The system seemed to die a few weeks back, so re-installed
> Win XP Pro, but no luck. So replaced the Intel motherboard
> with an Asus that's as close as I could get to Matrox's
> "recommended" list, and again installed XP Pro (SP2). All
> very time-consuming and painful.
>
> Yesterday, I put the finishing touches to a 1 hour video
> (edited in Premiere 6.5), encoded it to MPEG-1 via TMPGEnc,
> and suddenly noticed that the audio was out of sync by
> around 1 second at the end.
>
> Assumed that my editing must have stuffed up, so re-captured
> to a new file. But with no editing at all, it still had the
> drift problem - a second out after about 45 minutes. Closed
> Premiere, dropped the raw AVI into Virtual Dub - same problem.
> (I don't always believe Premiere's monitor window).
>
> Part of my problem is that I had to replace the DV-cam at
> about the same time the PC went west. I was using a little Sony
> TRV120E, but that died, so went and bought a lovely Panasonic
> NV-GS400 (triple CCD - lovely - but work paid for it :-)
>
> I've updated everything I could think of, driver-wise ...
> latest Matrox Xtools, anything I could find for Premiere
> (very little, BTW), etc.
>
> Basically, though, I'm just perplexed! I wouldn't have
> thought things COULD get out of sync on a DV capture.
> With analogue and a separate sound-card, sure - but this is
> via 1394 straight into an integrated AVI file.
>
> PS: this may only mean anything to other RX100 owners) -
> I no longer get a separate WAV file for the audio when I
> do a capture. I've always found that really handy, but
> no more (with the latest Matrox X-tools for Premiere 6.5)
>
> Any thought much appreciated,
>
> Tony Sanderson (CSIRO)
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 6:44:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Innocent Bystander wrote:

> First off, the software/drivers for the RT.X100 is a different version for
> Premiere 6.5 than those for Premiere Pro ...

Thanks for the comments, IB. I only loaded down the Premiere 6.5 drivers
from Matrox, but they were a later version than the ones I had on the
earlier system with the Intel M/B.

From memory, when I tried to run the hotfix, it came back and told me that
it wasn't needed for XP SP2 but I'll recheck that tomorrow when I'm at work
(currently typing this up from my home server via Pine :-)

Most curious about your comment re doing a sync run - the doco specifically
says that this calibration process is only needed for analogue capture (due
to, I assume, analogue audio being captured via a separate sound board with
a clock frequency that's typically out by 1% or so), but from what you're
suggesting, it may also effect DV capture audio sync? Anyway, quick enough
to check, and I'll try that and do another 1 hour capture run after I check
into all the other points you've raised. I'm not sure about the slot number
for the RX100 in the new Asus board - it could even be in the wrong one.

Your point re Windows updates isn't lost on me either - at work, these
drift through almost weekly, so maybe I ought to re-install Premiere
and the Xtools as well before doing another test run, just in case.
(And then do a re-cal of course)

The fact that you're building systems for clients in quantity makes me
feel somewhat more confident - I'll get back in a day or so after I've
gone through your list of suggestions. This has me intrigued - as I said,
I've always assumed that DV capture would be pretty much "yay or nay".
It's not reporting any dropped frames, but in case, I always thought
audio-sync problems were only possible with analogue grabs! Puzzling.

Cheers,

Tony (CSIRO)
Related resources
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 6:44:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Tony at Bluehaze" <tonys@bluehaze.com.au> wrote in message
news:p ine.LNX.4.33.0508030215100.30078-100000@art.bluehaze.com.au...
> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Innocent Bystander wrote:
>
> Most curious about your comment re doing a sync run - the doco
> specifically
> says that this calibration process is only needed for analogue capture
> (due
> to, I assume, analogue audio being captured via a separate sound board
> with
> a clock frequency that's typically out by 1% or so), but from what you're
> suggesting, it may also effect DV capture audio sync? Anyway, quick
> enough
> to check, and I'll try that and do another 1 hour capture run after I
> check
> into all the other points you've raised. I'm not sure about the slot
> number
> for the RX100 in the new Asus board - it could even be in the wrong one.
>

Although the calibration is for analog it still keeps the drives in line for
all captures. As an added note: the X100, and all the previous RT cards from
Matrox, capture analog video using the same settings of DV video and do not
use the soundcard for audio capture.

> Your point re Windows updates isn't lost on me either - at work, these
> drift through almost weekly, so maybe I ought to re-install Premiere
> and the Xtools as well before doing another test run, just in case.
> (And then do a re-cal of course)
>

My suggestion is to visit the Matrox System Recommendations page to double
check slot configuration. Check for any missed software for Premiere 6.5
setup.

Uninstall Xtools first. Restart the system. Always click Cancel for Hardware
Wizard. Uninstall Premiere. Restart the system. Reinstall Premiere. Restart.
When the system comes up and asks for X100 drivers using Hardware Wizard
once again click Cancel. The Xtools installs drivers for the card. System
will restart. Go back to Xtools setup screen and install secondary effects
package and plug-ins where necessary.

Update your DirectX to latest version. Update your VGA drivers. Check for
BIOS updates for your mainboard. Did you install all the Intel stuff off the
Asus CD just after installing XP? Are there drivers on that CD for your
controllers you may have let XP load generic drivers for? Keep those hard
drives really cool. I always install individual hard drive coolers on each
unit. Try not to stack drives close together if possible. Give em room to
keep cool.

Don't overclock past 10% on LGA 775 and Prescott processors without major
cooling. They run really hot to begin with. I would suggest liquid processor
cooling systems for these processors, and a case which allows a large number
of fans. The Thermaltake Xaser cases allow up to 7 total fans. Pull air in
the front out the sides and back. Even with all of this my LGA 775 3.8GHz
hits 132 degrees during dual pass MPEG-2 VBR encodes. Think about what temp
a Prescott 3.4GHz hits with only the Intel fan and three onboard case fans.
Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 140 to 150.

> The fact that you're building systems for clients in quantity makes me
> feel somewhat more confident - I'll get back in a day or so after I've
> gone through your list of suggestions. This has me intrigued - as I said,
> I've always assumed that DV capture would be pretty much "yay or nay".
> It's not reporting any dropped frames, but in case, I always thought
> audio-sync problems were only possible with analogue grabs! Puzzling.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tony (CSIRO)
>
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 10:44:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Innocent Bystander wrote:

> My suggestion is to visit the Matrox System Recommendations page to double
> check slot configuration. Check for any missed software for Premiere 6.5
> setup.

A followup here - I did discover that I had both the RTX100
and the Audigy cards in different slots to those used by Matrox
(for the Asus P4C800EE deluxe m/b). So I uninstalled everything,
moved them to the correct slots and reinstalled. Slow and painful
(Matrox wants a reboot after every action, even during the uninstall).

> Uninstall Xtools first. Restart the system. Always click Cancel for Hardware
> Wizard. Uninstall Premiere. Restart the system. Reinstall Premiere. Restart.
> When the system comes up and asks for X100 drivers using Hardware Wizard
> once again click Cancel.
> ...

Thanks for all that detail, IB (won't quote you in full). Did all
that - latest mb drivers, chipset, matrox rtx100, matrox g550 vga,
.... the works. These things were pretty much up-to-date anyway.
Then took the matrox drivers (via Xtools stuff) up to their latest
available ones that correspond to Premiere 6.5 - build 4263. Did
a matrox-tools audio-sync run (10 minutes). Then did a 20 minute
test grab on the DV-in, and - no go. Audio out of sync by 4-5 frames
(about 1/6 sec on PAL, 25 fps) at the 20 minute mark - quite visible.

Then did the grab without Premiere - just using Matrox Xtools. Same
result - audio sync problem visible after 20 minutes.

Getting really fed up by that stage, so uninstalled Xtools and
Premiere and re-installed BUT this time I left the Matrox Xtools
sitting at the original CD version that came with card 2 1/2 years ago.
Another audio-cal done, then a 2nd DV grab for about 20 minutes and
guess what - audio sync problem now gone. Did a longer grab (1 hour),
and still no audio sync problem.

So that's where it stands at the moment. Back to the original and
somewhat flakey Premiere 6.5 + Matrox RTX100 combination with all
original software as per the CDs that came with the card. Upgrading
to the latest available Xtools (4263) to suit Premiere 6.5 breaks this
system for audio sync on a DV capture of all things. I'm just
amazed. And very disappointed - the latest Matrox stuff is far
more solid (hardly any crashes occurred) and it has lots of nice, new
transitions.

Unlike many, I DON'T like the integrated AVI arrangement, since I
always post-process the WAVs before making MPEGs with TMPGenc. But I
could live with that one. Not so with the audio drifting out of sync
on a DV capture though!

Tony
Anonymous
August 15, 2005 10:44:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"Tony at Bluehaze" <tonys@bluehaze.com.au> wrote in message
news:p ine.LNX.4.33.0508151651360.30734-100000@art.bluehaze.com.au...
> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Innocent Bystander wrote:
>
>> My suggestion is to visit the Matrox System Recommendations page to
>> double
>> check slot configuration. Check for any missed software for Premiere 6.5
>> setup.
>
> A followup here - I did discover that I had both the RTX100
> and the Audigy cards in different slots to those used by Matrox
> (for the Asus P4C800EE deluxe m/b). So I uninstalled everything,
> moved them to the correct slots and reinstalled. Slow and painful
> (Matrox wants a reboot after every action, even during the uninstall).
>
>> Uninstall Xtools first. Restart the system. Always click Cancel for
>> Hardware
>> Wizard. Uninstall Premiere. Restart the system. Reinstall Premiere.
>> Restart.
>> When the system comes up and asks for X100 drivers using Hardware Wizard
>> once again click Cancel.
>> ...
>
> Thanks for all that detail, IB (won't quote you in full). Did all
> that - latest mb drivers, chipset, matrox rtx100, matrox g550 vga,
> ... the works. These things were pretty much up-to-date anyway.
> Then took the matrox drivers (via Xtools stuff) up to their latest
> available ones that correspond to Premiere 6.5 - build 4263. Did
> a matrox-tools audio-sync run (10 minutes). Then did a 20 minute
> test grab on the DV-in, and - no go. Audio out of sync by 4-5 frames
> (about 1/6 sec on PAL, 25 fps) at the 20 minute mark - quite visible.
>
> Then did the grab without Premiere - just using Matrox Xtools. Same
> result - audio sync problem visible after 20 minutes.
>
> Getting really fed up by that stage, so uninstalled Xtools and
> Premiere and re-installed BUT this time I left the Matrox Xtools
> sitting at the original CD version that came with card 2 1/2 years ago.
> Another audio-cal done, then a 2nd DV grab for about 20 minutes and
> guess what - audio sync problem now gone. Did a longer grab (1 hour),
> and still no audio sync problem.
>
> So that's where it stands at the moment. Back to the original and
> somewhat flakey Premiere 6.5 + Matrox RTX100 combination with all
> original software as per the CDs that came with the card. Upgrading
> to the latest available Xtools (4263) to suit Premiere 6.5 breaks this
> system for audio sync on a DV capture of all things. I'm just
> amazed. And very disappointed - the latest Matrox stuff is far
> more solid (hardly any crashes occurred) and it has lots of nice, new
> transitions.
>
> Unlike many, I DON'T like the integrated AVI arrangement, since I
> always post-process the WAVs before making MPEGs with TMPGenc. But I
> could live with that one. Not so with the audio drifting out of sync
> on a DV capture though!
>
> Tony
>

They always boast how, its all compatable with the adobe stuff.

Then there is the motherboard compatability issue. It will only work on
these blah, blah, mbs...

All the fiddling you need to do...

xman
August 16, 2005 12:10:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

"xmradio" <xmradio@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZaudnR1E2f1hdJ3eRVn-iQ@giganews.com...
>
> "Tony at Bluehaze" <tonys@bluehaze.com.au> wrote in message
> news:p ine.LNX.4.33.0508151651360.30734-100000@art.bluehaze.com.au...
>> On Tue, 2 Aug 2005, Innocent Bystander wrote:
>>
>>> My suggestion is to visit the Matrox System Recommendations page to
>>> double
>>> check slot configuration. Check for any missed software for Premiere 6.5
>>> setup.
>>
>> A followup here - I did discover that I had both the RTX100
>> and the Audigy cards in different slots to those used by Matrox
>> (for the Asus P4C800EE deluxe m/b). So I uninstalled everything,
>> moved them to the correct slots and reinstalled. Slow and painful
>> (Matrox wants a reboot after every action, even during the uninstall).
>>
>>> Uninstall Xtools first. Restart the system. Always click Cancel for
>>> Hardware
>>> Wizard. Uninstall Premiere. Restart the system. Reinstall Premiere.
>>> Restart.
>>> When the system comes up and asks for X100 drivers using Hardware Wizard
>>> once again click Cancel.
>>> ...
>>
>> Thanks for all that detail, IB (won't quote you in full). Did all
>> that - latest mb drivers, chipset, matrox rtx100, matrox g550 vga,
>> ... the works. These things were pretty much up-to-date anyway.
>> Then took the matrox drivers (via Xtools stuff) up to their latest
>> available ones that correspond to Premiere 6.5 - build 4263. Did
>> a matrox-tools audio-sync run (10 minutes). Then did a 20 minute
>> test grab on the DV-in, and - no go. Audio out of sync by 4-5 frames
>> (about 1/6 sec on PAL, 25 fps) at the 20 minute mark - quite visible.
>>
>> Then did the grab without Premiere - just using Matrox Xtools. Same
>> result - audio sync problem visible after 20 minutes.
>>
>> Getting really fed up by that stage, so uninstalled Xtools and
>> Premiere and re-installed BUT this time I left the Matrox Xtools
>> sitting at the original CD version that came with card 2 1/2 years ago.
>> Another audio-cal done, then a 2nd DV grab for about 20 minutes and
>> guess what - audio sync problem now gone. Did a longer grab (1 hour),
>> and still no audio sync problem.
>>
>> So that's where it stands at the moment. Back to the original and
>> somewhat flakey Premiere 6.5 + Matrox RTX100 combination with all
>> original software as per the CDs that came with the card. Upgrading
>> to the latest available Xtools (4263) to suit Premiere 6.5 breaks this
>> system for audio sync on a DV capture of all things. I'm just
>> amazed. And very disappointed - the latest Matrox stuff is far
>> more solid (hardly any crashes occurred) and it has lots of nice, new
>> transitions.
>>
>> Unlike many, I DON'T like the integrated AVI arrangement, since I
>> always post-process the WAVs before making MPEGs with TMPGenc. But I
>> could live with that one. Not so with the audio drifting out of sync
>> on a DV capture though!
>>
>> Tony
>>
>
> They always boast how, its all compatable with the adobe stuff.
>
> Then there is the motherboard compatability issue. It will only work on
> these blah, blah, mbs...
>
> All the fiddling you need to do...
>
> xman
>
>
>

Yeah, and even worse is that the rtx100 hardware will not even handle HDV
video which is now supported in the adobe software as of the Premiere Pro
1.5.1 update, the matrox site says it will only work with software only
editing hdv clips and realtime hardware features will only work if using
strictly SD video only on the timeline, so the card is basically obsolete
already, in my opinion.
They could have said, future drivers are being developed to handle hdv
clips, but they didn't. So maybe futue hardware is being developed?
More likely a solution as these chips are dated already. :) 
AnthonyR.
!