Root cause of archived video DVD intermittent jerkiness

Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

Why do archived DVDs sometimes play jerkily like a blockey jigsaw puzzle?

.. I buy & archive a DVD (using DVD Decrypter, DVD Shrink, & Nero).
.. Nero has validated the archive data & no warnings ensued
.. That archived video DVD plays without jerkiness in the pc.

.. I now play that DVD in my bottom-end DVD player hooked to a TV
.. Sometimes the video is jerky (but no warnings issues by Nero).
.. Sometimes that SAME video DVD is not jerky (go figure).

.. The archived DVD disc is NOT scratched or dirty (it's brand new).
.. That same archived DVD disc plays without jerkiness in the PC.
.. If I power cycle the DVD player, often the jerkiness disappears!

Huh?

QUESTION:
What could be causing this intermittently jerky blocky video playback?
27 answers Last reply
More about root archived video intermittent jerkiness
  1. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    M. T. Arnough wrote:
    > Why do archived DVDs sometimes play jerkily like a blockey jigsaw puzzle?
    >
    > . I buy & archive a DVD (using DVD Decrypter, DVD Shrink, & Nero).
    > . Nero has validated the archive data & no warnings ensued
    > . That archived video DVD plays without jerkiness in the pc.
    >
    > . I now play that DVD in my bottom-end DVD player hooked to a TV
    > . Sometimes the video is jerky (but no warnings issues by Nero).
    > . Sometimes that SAME video DVD is not jerky (go figure).
    >
    > . The archived DVD disc is NOT scratched or dirty (it's brand new).
    > . That same archived DVD disc plays without jerkiness in the PC.
    > . If I power cycle the DVD player, often the jerkiness disappears!
    >
    > Huh?
    >
    > QUESTION:
    > What could be causing this intermittently jerky blocky video playback?

    Try your archived DVD in a recent machine that supports DVD-R or DVD+R
    explicitly (i.e., says so on the label). I had the same problem but it
    was the player not the DVD. They play fine on my new player.

    -Bill
  2. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    I had a similar problem when I recorded material on a stand-alone Panasonic
    DVD recorder. Turns out the problem was that I had the quality set too
    _high_ (on the 1-hour mode). I'm pretty sure that the higher data rate
    overloaded the input buffer of the cheap DVD player.

    When I reduced the quality to the 2-hour mode, everything was OK.

    I'm guessing here, but maybe you're archiving at a too-high bit rate ?

    Steve


    "M. T. Arnough" <emptyarnough@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:1bok02hrkc6yc$.1525f7nwv4d9s$.dlg@40tude.net...
    > Why do archived DVDs sometimes play jerkily like a blockey jigsaw puzzle?
    >
    > . I buy & archive a DVD (using DVD Decrypter, DVD Shrink, & Nero).
    > . Nero has validated the archive data & no warnings ensued
    > . That archived video DVD plays without jerkiness in the pc.
    >
    > . I now play that DVD in my bottom-end DVD player hooked to a TV
    > . Sometimes the video is jerky (but no warnings issues by Nero).
    > . Sometimes that SAME video DVD is not jerky (go figure).
    >
    > . The archived DVD disc is NOT scratched or dirty (it's brand new).
    > . That same archived DVD disc plays without jerkiness in the PC.
    > . If I power cycle the DVD player, often the jerkiness disappears!
    >
    > Huh?
    >
    > QUESTION:
    > What could be causing this intermittently jerky blocky video playback?
  3. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    > "M. T. Arnough" <emptyarnough@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:1bok02hrkc6yc$.1525f7nwv4d9s$.dlg@40tude.net...
    >> Why do archived DVDs sometimes play jerkily like a blockey jigsaw puzzle?
    >>
    >> . I buy & archive a DVD (using DVD Decrypter, DVD Shrink, & Nero).
    >> . Nero has validated the archive data & no warnings ensued
    >> . That archived video DVD plays without jerkiness in the pc.
    >>
    >> . I now play that DVD in my bottom-end DVD player hooked to a TV
    >> . Sometimes the video is jerky (but no warnings issues by Nero).
    >> . Sometimes that SAME video DVD is not jerky (go figure).
    >>
    >> . The archived DVD disc is NOT scratched or dirty (it's brand new).
    >> . That same archived DVD disc plays without jerkiness in the PC.
    >> . If I power cycle the DVD player, often the jerkiness disappears!
    >>
    >> Huh?
    >>
    >> QUESTION:
    >> What could be causing this intermittently jerky blocky video playback?
    >
    >
    "Steve Guidry" <steveguidry@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:iYKMe.8548$Je.2882@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    >I had a similar problem when I recorded material on a stand-alone Panasonic
    > DVD recorder. Turns out the problem was that I had the quality set too
    > _high_ (on the 1-hour mode). I'm pretty sure that the higher data rate
    > overloaded the input buffer of the cheap DVD player.
    >
    > When I reduced the quality to the 2-hour mode, everything was OK.
    >
    > I'm guessing here, but maybe you're archiving at a too-high bit rate ?
    >
    > Steve
    >

    The usual cause of the "Jerkyness" is dropped frames during
    capture, and how they are handled by your capture software.
    The PC player, and the newer players another responder
    mentioned, make use of buffers and more sophisticated
    algorithms to smoothly play through such dropouts.

    The approach I find easiest, is to use www.VideoReDo.com
    on my .mpg before authoring a DVD. A re-mux in VRD will
    remove the problem altogether.

    Recording at lower settings, or at a smaller image size (if the
    recorder allows such settings) would make dropouts much
    less likely, and so could correct the problem, also.

    (My first instinct would be to blame Nero Express, as it
    wants to use its own codec for every thing, so you might
    try authoring your DVD with a trial of "TMPGEnc DVD
    Author", "DVD Lab Pro", or even "Movie Factory 4".
    Nero is probably not the cause of your "Jerkyness"
    though.)

    Luck;
    Ken
  4. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    In article <JZWdnW0mtu5XEZ7eRVn-sg@giganews.com>,
    "Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

    > Nero is probably not the cause of your "Jerkyness"
    > though.)
    >
    > Luck;
    > Ken

    I've written this a bunch of times before, but it bears repetition.

    A nice DVD Recorder might run you a few hundred bucks. Let's call it
    $300 for the sake of argument.

    Out of that, half probably gets assigned to profit/marketing. So lets
    say you're left with 150.00. Middlemen, shipping, etc probably eat up
    half of that. So you can't economically have more than 75 bucks worth of
    actual parts in the thing. More likely less than $50. So how much does
    that mean the critical internal units like the stepper motors that move
    the laser over the disc surface and the laser itself are really worth?
    Five bucks Three bucks? Fifth cents?

    We're asking this to PRECISELY write data to a disc spining at thousands
    of RPMS, while those stepper motors move the laser over the surface so
    precisely that the data bands and guard bands are in EXCELLENT alignment
    and therefore easily read by any other player.

    Including players with equally cheap components.

    Do we ever drop or jar our players such that it would be reasonable to
    think those critical optical components might get mis-alligned? How
    about age and wear on the belts/pullys/motor windings. Might those ever
    perform less than optimally?

    The more I understand about home DVD burners/players it's a miracle they
    work as well as they do.

    And those are extremely rough guestimates about the economics of a
    "pricy" DVD player.

    How about that unit sitting on your shelf that cost you $49.95 at Costco.

    What did they budget for the stepper motors in THAt beast.

    Sheesh.

    Want better playback? Buy a new machine, and replace it with a newer one
    every six months.

    At $100 bucks a year, it'll save you a thousand bucks in grief. And you
    can regularly pass along your old gear to family and friends and make
    them happy.

    My 2 cents anyway.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    "William Davis" <newvideo@fastq.com> wrote in message
    news:newvideo-AEE47B.13050817082005@news.west.cox.net...
    > In article <JZWdnW0mtu5XEZ7eRVn-sg@giganews.com>,
    > "Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
    >
    >> Nero is probably not the cause of your "Jerkyness"
    >> though.)
    >>
    >> Luck;
    >> Ken
    >
    > I've written this a bunch of times before, but it bears repetition.
    >
    > A nice DVD Recorder might run you a few hundred bucks. Let's call it
    > $300 for the sake of argument.
    >
    > Out of that, half probably gets assigned to profit/marketing. So lets
    > say you're left with 150.00. Middlemen, shipping, etc probably eat up
    > half of that. So you can't economically have more than 75 bucks worth of
    > actual parts in the thing. More likely less than $50. So how much does
    > that mean the critical internal units like the stepper motors that move
    > the laser over the disc surface and the laser itself are really worth?
    > Five bucks Three bucks? Fifth cents?
    >
    > We're asking this to PRECISELY write data to a disc spining at thousands
    > of RPMS, while those stepper motors move the laser over the surface so
    > precisely that the data bands and guard bands are in EXCELLENT alignment
    > and therefore easily read by any other player.
    >
    > Including players with equally cheap components.
    >
    > Do we ever drop or jar our players such that it would be reasonable to
    > think those critical optical components might get mis-alligned? How
    > about age and wear on the belts/pullys/motor windings. Might those ever
    > perform less than optimally?
    >
    > The more I understand about home DVD burners/players it's a miracle they
    > work as well as they do.
    >
    > And those are extremely rough guestimates about the economics of a
    > "pricy" DVD player.
    >
    > How about that unit sitting on your shelf that cost you $49.95 at Costco.
    >
    > What did they budget for the stepper motors in THAt beast.
    >
    > Sheesh.
    >
    > Want better playback? Buy a new machine, and replace it with a newer one
    > every six months.
    >
    > At $100 bucks a year, it'll save you a thousand bucks in grief. And you
    > can regularly pass along your old gear to family and friends and make
    > them happy.
    >
    > My 2 cents anyway.

    It is surprising how little it costs to mark up a new IC when
    your engineering staff is working to advance the Great Red
    Revolution and bring honor and glory to the PLA General
    appointed over them.

    Luck;
    Ken
  6. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    Ok, fine. But there was no capture card involved in my scenario, only a
    Panasonic stand-alone recorder.

    I'm sticking with the too-high bit-rate theory.

    Steve


    "Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
    news:JZWdnW0mtu5XEZ7eRVn-sg@giganews.com...
    > > "M. T. Arnough" <emptyarnough@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > > news:1bok02hrkc6yc$.1525f7nwv4d9s$.dlg@40tude.net...
    > >> Why do archived DVDs sometimes play jerkily like a blockey jigsaw
    puzzle?
    > >>
    > >> . I buy & archive a DVD (using DVD Decrypter, DVD Shrink, & Nero).
    > >> . Nero has validated the archive data & no warnings ensued
    > >> . That archived video DVD plays without jerkiness in the pc.
    > >>
    > >> . I now play that DVD in my bottom-end DVD player hooked to a TV
    > >> . Sometimes the video is jerky (but no warnings issues by Nero).
    > >> . Sometimes that SAME video DVD is not jerky (go figure).
    > >>
    > >> . The archived DVD disc is NOT scratched or dirty (it's brand new).
    > >> . That same archived DVD disc plays without jerkiness in the PC.
    > >> . If I power cycle the DVD player, often the jerkiness disappears!
    > >>
    > >> Huh?
    > >>
    > >> QUESTION:
    > >> What could be causing this intermittently jerky blocky video playback?
    > >
    > >
    > "Steve Guidry" <steveguidry@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    > news:iYKMe.8548$Je.2882@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    > >I had a similar problem when I recorded material on a stand-alone
    Panasonic
    > > DVD recorder. Turns out the problem was that I had the quality set too
    > > _high_ (on the 1-hour mode). I'm pretty sure that the higher data rate
    > > overloaded the input buffer of the cheap DVD player.
    > >
    > > When I reduced the quality to the 2-hour mode, everything was OK.
    > >
    > > I'm guessing here, but maybe you're archiving at a too-high bit rate ?
    > >
    > > Steve
    > >
    >
    > The usual cause of the "Jerkyness" is dropped frames during
    > capture, and how they are handled by your capture software.
    > The PC player, and the newer players another responder
    > mentioned, make use of buffers and more sophisticated
    > algorithms to smoothly play through such dropouts.
    >
    > The approach I find easiest, is to use www.VideoReDo.com
    > on my .mpg before authoring a DVD. A re-mux in VRD will
    > remove the problem altogether.
    >
    > Recording at lower settings, or at a smaller image size (if the
    > recorder allows such settings) would make dropouts much
    > less likely, and so could correct the problem, also.
    >
    > (My first instinct would be to blame Nero Express, as it
    > wants to use its own codec for every thing, so you might
    > try authoring your DVD with a trial of "TMPGEnc DVD
    > Author", "DVD Lab Pro", or even "Movie Factory 4".
    > Nero is probably not the cause of your "Jerkyness"
    > though.)
    >
    > Luck;
    > Ken
    >
    >
  7. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    >> > "M. T. Arnough" <emptyarnough@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >> > news:1bok02hrkc6yc$.1525f7nwv4d9s$.dlg@40tude.net...
    >> >> Why do archived DVDs sometimes play jerkily like a blockey jigsaw
    > puzzle?
    >> >>
    >> >> . I buy & archive a DVD (using DVD Decrypter, DVD Shrink, & Nero).
    >> >> . Nero has validated the archive data & no warnings ensued
    >> >> . That archived video DVD plays without jerkiness in the pc.
    >> >>
    >> >> . I now play that DVD in my bottom-end DVD player hooked to a TV
    >> >> . Sometimes the video is jerky (but no warnings issues by Nero).
    >> >> . Sometimes that SAME video DVD is not jerky (go figure).
    >> >>
    <Snip>
    >> >> QUESTION:
    >> >> What could be causing this intermittently jerky blocky video playback?
    >> >

    > "Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
    > news:JZWdnW0mtu5XEZ7eRVn-sg@giganews.com...

    >> The usual cause of the "Jerkyness" is dropped frames during
    >> capture, and how they are handled by your capture software.
    >> The PC player, and the newer players another responder
    >> mentioned, make use of buffers and more sophisticated
    >> algorithms to smoothly play through such dropouts.
    >>
    >> The approach I find easiest, is to use www.VideoReDo.com
    >> on my .mpg before authoring a DVD. A re-mux in VRD will
    >> remove the problem altogether.
    >>
    >> Recording at lower settings, or at a smaller image size (if the
    >> recorder allows such settings) would make dropouts much
    >> less likely, and so could correct the problem, also.
    >>
    >> (My first instinct would be to blame Nero Express, as it
    >> wants to use its own codec for every thing, so you might
    >> try authoring your DVD with a trial of "TMPGEnc DVD
    >> Author", "DVD Lab Pro", or even "Movie Factory 4".
    >> Nero is probably not the cause of your "Jerkyness"
    >> though.)
    >>
    >> Luck;
    >> Ken
    >>

    "Steve Guidry" <steveguidry@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:NCMMe.8636$Je.6829@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    > Ok, fine. But there was no capture card involved in my scenario, only a
    > Panasonic stand-alone recorder.
    >
    > I'm sticking with the too-high bit-rate theory.
    >
    > Steve
    >

    It is customary for a responder to reply to the OP and
    the subject line, first. As to your approach to the problem
    I would suggest you reread the third paragraph of my reply.
    Sorry, if I didn't hear your cry for help, I thought we were
    both addressing the OP's question.

    You seem to have found a solution to your problem, so
    what's your complaint about my not addressing your
    "scenario"?

    Luck;
    Ken
  8. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    "William Davis" wrote ...
    > A nice DVD Recorder might run you a few hundred
    > bucks. Let's call it $300 for the sake of argument.
    >
    > Out of that, half probably gets assigned to profit/marketing.
    > So lets say you're left with 150.00. Middlemen, shipping,
    > etc probably eat up half of that. So you can't economically
    > have more than 75 bucks worth of actual parts in the thing.
    > More likely less than $50. So how much does that mean the
    > critical internal units like the stepper motors that move the
    > laser over the disc surface and the laser itself are really
    > worth? Five bucks Three bucks? Fifth cents?

    There are no stepping motors in modern CD or DVD
    players/recorders/computer drives.

    The disc is rotated by a small DC motor.
    The "gross" position of the head is done with another cheap
    DC motor.
    Then "voice-coil" technology is used for the dynamic "fine"
    position (in 3 axes) of the optical head.

    The spindle- and head-position motors and the three voice
    coil axes are controlled by a long servo "circuit" which began
    back in the digital decoding of the optical data from the pickup
    head. This system of five servos control the voltage to the five
    servo "transducers".

    > We're asking this to PRECISELY write data to a disc spining
    > at thousands of RPMS, while those stepper motors move the
    > laser over the surface so precisely that the data bands and
    > guard bands are in EXCELLENT alignment and therefore
    > easily read by any other player.

    It is an impressive design/execution, but not THAT impressive.
    "Blank", field-burnable discs are not really blank. They have
    the tracks moulded into the plastic. This is what guides the five
    servos to keep the optical head aligned with the spinning track.

    When writing a disc, we are merely "burning" into the photo-
    sensitive layer behind the moulded tracks. On commercially-
    moulded discs, the data pits are moulded along with the track
    definitions and backed with sputtered aluminum (for reflection).

    Now when they make the optical master for pressing/moulding
    commercial CDs and DVDs, that is a different matter. There,
    the writing head IS truly on its own and its position must be
    precisely controlled by the equipment. But those things are
    many times larger, heavier, more precise (and more expensive)
    than any CD or DVD drives, players, or recorders we deal with.

    > Including players with equally cheap components.
    >
    > Do we ever drop or jar our players such that it would
    > be reasonable to think those critical optical components
    > might get mis-alligned? How about age and wear on the
    > belts/pullys/motor windings. Might those ever perform
    > less than optimally?

    Yes, all of those are risks to any system that relies on such
    precision to read/write. Fortunately, the servos are able to
    keep up with most of the nastiness, and when they can't, the
    drive just gives up and spits out the disc.

    The only rubber I've ever seen in any of those kinds of
    drives/mechanisms is the drawer open/close "gear-train"
    on some designs where they use a rubber belt between
    the DC motor and the first gear in the speed-reduction
    train.

    > The more I understand about home DVD burners/players
    > it's a miracle they work as well as they do.

    They ARE pretty miraculous. But use of high-speed servos
    (enabled by cheap, high-speed computing resources) has
    made it practical to bring this high-technology to the public.

    > And those are extremely rough guestimates about the
    > economics of a "pricy" DVD player.
    >
    > How about that unit sitting on your shelf that cost you
    > $49.95 at Costco.
    >
    > What did they budget for the stepper motors in THAt beast.

    The spindle motor may have even cost more than a buck
    because of the bearings, clamping mechanism, etc. But I
    doubt the head-positioning motor is more than a buck.
    The three axes on the optical head may cost more than a
    buck all together if only because of the cost of the rare-earth
    magnets, etc.

    But zero for actual "stepping motors". OTOH I believe that
    modern inkjet printers still use steppers for both axes. But
    then laser printers are back to DC servo IIRC.
  9. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    >
    > But zero for actual "stepping motors". OTOH I believe that modern inkjet
    > printers still use steppers for both axes.

    You are correct.
  10. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 13:05:08 -0700, William Davis <newvideo@fastq.com>
    wrote:

    >In article <JZWdnW0mtu5XEZ7eRVn-sg@giganews.com>,
    > "Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
    >
    >> Nero is probably not the cause of your "Jerkyness"
    >> though.)
    >>
    >> Luck;
    >> Ken
    >
    >I've written this a bunch of times before, but it bears repetition.
    >
    > A nice DVD Recorder might run you a few hundred bucks. Let's call it
    >$300 for the sake of argument.
    >
    >Out of that, half probably gets assigned to profit/marketing. So lets
    >say you're left with 150.00. Middlemen, shipping, etc probably eat up
    >half of that. So you can't economically have more than 75 bucks worth of
    >actual parts in the thing. More likely less than $50. So how much does
    >that mean the critical internal units like the stepper motors that move
    >the laser over the disc surface and the laser itself are really worth?
    >Five bucks Three bucks? Fifth cents?
    >
    >We're asking this to PRECISELY write data to a disc spining at thousands
    >of RPMS, while those stepper motors move the laser over the surface so
    >precisely that the data bands and guard bands are in EXCELLENT alignment
    >and therefore easily read by any other player.
    >
    >Including players with equally cheap components.
    >
    >Do we ever drop or jar our players such that it would be reasonable to
    >think those critical optical components might get mis-alligned? How
    >about age and wear on the belts/pullys/motor windings. Might those ever
    >perform less than optimally?
    >
    >The more I understand about home DVD burners/players it's a miracle they
    >work as well as they do.
    >
    >And those are extremely rough guestimates about the economics of a
    >"pricy" DVD player.
    >
    >How about that unit sitting on your shelf that cost you $49.95 at Costco.
    >
    >What did they budget for the stepper motors in THAt beast.
    >
    >Sheesh.
    >
    >Want better playback? Buy a new machine, and replace it with a newer one
    >every six months.
    >
    >At $100 bucks a year, it'll save you a thousand bucks in grief. And you
    >can regularly pass along your old gear to family and friends and make
    >them happy.

    If it's as bad as you say, passing along the old gear to family and
    friends might not be doing them much of a favor. Fortunately, in my
    experience anyway, it's not nearly as bad as you say.

    >
    >My 2 cents anyway.

    And mine. :)

    --
    Bill
  11. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    "William Davis" <newvideo@fastq.com> wrote in message
    news:newvideo-AEE47B.13050817082005@news.west.cox.net...
    > In article <JZWdnW0mtu5XEZ7eRVn-sg@giganews.com>,
    > "Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
    >
    > > Nero is probably not the cause of your "Jerkyness"
    > > though.)
    > >
    > > Luck;
    > > Ken
    >
    > I've written this a bunch of times before, but it bears repetition.
    >

    >
    > We're asking this to PRECISELY write data to a disc spining at thousands
    > of RPMS, while those stepper motors move the laser over the surface so
    > precisely that the data bands and guard bands are in EXCELLENT alignment
    > and therefore easily read by any other player.

    The design makes this accuracy cheap.

    > Including players with equally cheap components.

    Most use the SAME components.
    >
    > Do we ever drop or jar our players such that it would be reasonable to
    > think those critical optical components might get mis-alligned? How
    > about age and wear on the belts/pullys/motor windings. Might those ever
    > perform less than optimally?

    No belts or pulleys in a DVD player.

    >
    > The more I understand about home DVD burners/players it's a miracle they
    > work as well as they do.

    Not really that complex. It is a combination of a few proven technologies.

    >
    > And those are extremely rough guestimates about the economics of a
    > "pricy" DVD player.
    >
    > How about that unit sitting on your shelf that cost you $49.95 at Costco.
    >
    > What did they budget for the stepper motors in THAt beast.

    The steppers all come from the same place for the most part. And none of the
    steppers in these devices are THAT high resolution.


    >
    > Sheesh.

    Sheesh and Shong.


    >
    > Want better playback? Buy a new machine, and replace it with a newer one
    > every six months.
    >
    > At $100 bucks a year, it'll save you a thousand bucks in grief. And you
    > can regularly pass along your old gear to family and friends and make
    > them happy.
    >
    > My 2 cents anyway.
  12. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    "Jona Vark" <noemail@all.com> wrote in message
    news:MBQMe.347$L03.332@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
    >
    > "William Davis" <newvideo@fastq.com> wrote in message
    > news:newvideo-AEE47B.13050817082005@news.west.cox.net...
    >> In article <JZWdnW0mtu5XEZ7eRVn-sg@giganews.com>,
    >> "Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
    >>
    >> > Nero is probably not the cause of your "Jerkyness"
    >> > though.)
    >> >
    >> > Luck;
    >> > Ken
    >>
    >> I've written this a bunch of times before, but it bears repetition.
    >>
    >
    >>
    >> We're asking this to PRECISELY write data to a disc spining at thousands
    >> of RPMS, while those stepper motors move the laser over the surface so
    >> precisely that the data bands and guard bands are in EXCELLENT alignment
    >> and therefore easily read by any other player.
    >
    > The design makes this accuracy cheap.
    >
    >> Including players with equally cheap components.
    >
    > Most use the SAME components.
    >>
    >> Do we ever drop or jar our players such that it would be reasonable to
    >> think those critical optical components might get mis-alligned? How
    >> about age and wear on the belts/pullys/motor windings. Might those ever
    >> perform less than optimally?
    >
    > No belts or pulleys in a DVD player.
    >
    >>
    >> The more I understand about home DVD burners/players it's a miracle they
    >> work as well as they do.
    >
    > Not really that complex. It is a combination of a few proven technologies.
    >
    >>
    >> And those are extremely rough guestimates about the economics of a
    >> "pricy" DVD player.
    >>
    >> How about that unit sitting on your shelf that cost you $49.95 at Costco.
    >>
    >> What did they budget for the stepper motors in THAt beast.
    >
    > The steppers all come from the same place for the most part. And none of
    > the
    > steppers in these devices are THAT high resolution.


    Oh no? You do not know anything about it, so stop making up idiocy.
  13. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    Now, tell me that sub-micron resolution is not very precise. What a maroon.

    http://www.disctronics.co.uk/technology/dvdintro/dvd_specs.htm
  14. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    > > Ok, fine. But there was no capture card involved in my scenario, only
    a
    > > Panasonic stand-alone recorder.
    > >
    > > I'm sticking with the too-high bit-rate theory.
    > >
    > > Steve
    > >
    >
    > It is customary for a responder to reply to the OP and
    > the subject line, first. As to your approach to the problem
    > I would suggest you reread the third paragraph of my reply.
    > Sorry, if I didn't hear your cry for help, I thought we were
    > both addressing the OP's question.
    >
    > You seem to have found a solution to your problem, so
    > what's your complaint about my not addressing your
    > "scenario"?
    >
    > Luck;
    > Ken

    Ken,

    Life is too short for me to complain about your post. And that wasn't the
    point. Rather, your post seemed to be responding to me, and - - working
    under that assumption - - it seemed that you hadn't bothered to read my
    post, but were rather just expounding on your own position.

    Mrs. Altenburg, my 5th grade English teacher, would give us both deductions
    for "unclear antecedents".

    In my mind, it's over, and I have no beef with you.

    All the best . . .

    Steve
  15. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop (More info?)

    >>> QUESTION:
    >>> What could be causing this intermittently jerky blocky video playback?

    I too have jerkiness using DVD Shrink and Sonic Record Now.
    Is everyone saying the problem is in the DVD player or the copying
    software?

    If it's in the player, how come only some newly burned DVDs have jerkiness
    and others don't (when using the same equipment on both sides).

    Isn't it the original DVD which is the real culprit in jerky copies?
  16. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    On 8/17/2005, Alpha managed to type:
    > Now, tell me that sub-micron resolution is not very precise. What a maroon.
    >
    > http://www.disctronics.co.uk/technology/dvdintro/dvd_specs.htm

    I have read descriptions of CD technology which indicate that the
    submicron accuracy is achieved by small adjustments using voice-coil
    actuators driven by optical feedback. This occurs along and across the
    tracks and also in the vertical (focus) direction, and the submicron
    accuracy comes from these adjustments.

    The same feedback signals are used to keep the coarser motors
    (including the rotation motor) in a more-or-less accurate average
    position, but the voice coils make up for the inaccuracies and the lag
    times.

    I have no reason to think that DVD drives work any differently.

    HTH,
    Gino

    --
    Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
    letters617blochg3251
    (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")
  17. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    On 8/18/2005, Gene E. Bloch managed to type:
    > On 8/17/2005, Alpha managed to type:
    >> Now, tell me that sub-micron resolution is not very precise. What a
    >> maroon.
    >>
    >> http://www.disctronics.co.uk/technology/dvdintro/dvd_specs.htm
    >
    > I have read descriptions of CD technology which indicate that the submicron
    > accuracy is achieved by small adjustments using voice-coil actuators driven
    > by optical feedback. This occurs along and across the tracks and also in the
    > vertical (focus) direction, and the submicron accuracy comes from these
    > adjustments.
    >
    > The same feedback signals are used to keep the coarser motors (including the
    > rotation motor) in a more-or-less accurate average position, but the voice
    > coils make up for the inaccuracies and the lag times.
    >
    > I have no reason to think that DVD drives work any differently.
    >
    > HTH,
    > Gino

    I just read Richard Crowley's post below in the thread on the same
    subject, and I yield to his greater knowledge.

    Thanks, Richard. I should have read more before adding my 2¢!

    Gino

    --
    Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
    letters617blochg3251
    (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")
  18. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    In article <mn.92d87d589735859b.1980@nobody.invalid>,
    "Gene E. Bloch" <spamfree@nobody.invalid> wrote:

    > On 8/18/2005, Gene E. Bloch managed to type:
    > > On 8/17/2005, Alpha managed to type:
    > >> Now, tell me that sub-micron resolution is not very precise. What a
    > >> maroon.
    > >>
    > >> http://www.disctronics.co.uk/technology/dvdintro/dvd_specs.htm
    > >
    > > I have read descriptions of CD technology which indicate that the submicron
    > > accuracy is achieved by small adjustments using voice-coil actuators driven
    > > by optical feedback. This occurs along and across the tracks and also in
    > > the
    > > vertical (focus) direction, and the submicron accuracy comes from these
    > > adjustments.
    > >
    > > The same feedback signals are used to keep the coarser motors (including
    > > the
    > > rotation motor) in a more-or-less accurate average position, but the voice
    > > coils make up for the inaccuracies and the lag times.
    > >
    > > I have no reason to think that DVD drives work any differently.
    > >
    > > HTH,
    > > Gino
    >
    > I just read Richard Crowley's post below in the thread on the same
    > subject, and I yield to his greater knowledge.
    >
    > Thanks, Richard. I should have read more before adding my 2¢!
    >
    > Gino

    I'll also bow to Richard's superior knowledge.

    I haven't had a client involved in gear manufacturer for more than 8
    years - a LIFETIME in EE and circuit design terms.

    But I still think it's nuts to expect an electronic device in a class
    that regularly retails for $49.95 to function for more than a year or so
    with any degree of consistency.

    This stuff is designed to be mass produced as cheaply as possible. NOT
    to last as long as a customer would prefer.

    And I can tell you I've had NUMEROUS personal experiences where I've
    burned discs in DVD-R, and/or DVD+R or one of the RW variants - that
    failed to play on expensive machines that were a year or two old, and
    played like a dream on a cheap machine picked up at Costco that day.

    I'm sure its partly due to more modern firmware in recent machines.

    But it's also why I've built DVD burner replacement every 6-12 month
    into my business plan.

    It seems to just make sense.

    FWIW
  19. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    "William Davis" wrote ...
    > I haven't had a client involved in gear manufacturer for more than 8
    > years - a LIFETIME in EE and circuit design terms.
    >
    > But I still think it's nuts to expect an electronic device in a class
    > that regularly retails for $49.95 to function for more than a year or
    > so
    > with any degree of consistency.
    >
    > This stuff is designed to be mass produced as cheaply as possible. NOT
    > to last as long as a customer would prefer.

    Whether they like it or not, making the final adjustments
    with electronic servos and voice-coil technology allows
    the equipment to live longer than if they tried to do it with
    motors and gears (fewer moving parts, etc.)
  20. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    They are NOT submicron steppers.
    "Alpha" <logos1@trip.net> wrote in message
    news:11g81trfofdst86@corp.supernews.com...
    > Now, tell me that sub-micron resolution is not very precise. What a
    maroon.
    >
    > http://www.disctronics.co.uk/technology/dvdintro/dvd_specs.htm
    >
    >
    >
    >
  21. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    "Jona Vark" <noemail@all.com> wrote in message
    news:DLnOe.89$A%1.78@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    > They are NOT submicron steppers.

    I never said they were.
  22. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    "Richard Crowley" <rcrowley@xpr7t.net> wrote in message
    news:11g84o6m4u27e27@corp.supernews.com...

    >
    > There are no stepping motors in modern CD or DVD
    > players/recorders/computer drives.


    A bit broad. There are a good number of peripheral devices which still use
    stepper motors. A simple Google Search will yield hundreds of current
    devices using steppers.
    the steppers themselves are fairly low resoution with microstep drives
    controlling them. Pretty much the same tech I used to use on motion control
    and optical printer rigs . just smaller and lower power.
  23. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    "Jona Vark" wrote ...
    >
    > "Richard Crowley" wrote ...
    >> There are no stepping motors in modern CD or DVD
    >> players/recorders/computer drives.
    >
    > A bit broad. There are a good number of peripheral devices which still use
    > stepper motors. A simple Google Search will yield hundreds of current
    > devices using steppers.

    Yes, broadly speaking there ARE "a good number of peripheral
    devices which still use stepper motors". However, note that my
    statement was narowly restricted to CD and DVD devices.

    Inkjet printers and floppy drives are notable for still using
    stepping motors. However you are unlikely to find steppers
    in any hard drives made in the last many years.
  24. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    "Alpha" <logos1@trip.net> wrote in message
    news:11g81onl968na17@corp.supernews.com...
    >
    > Oh no? You do not know anything about it, so stop making up idiocy.
    >
    >

    That's brilliant. Not sure which part of my statements you think are idiocy
    but you're welcome to elaborate if you can.
  25. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    Maybe it was one of those voice coils doing a ventriloquist act . . .


    > > They are NOT submicron steppers.
    >
    > I never said they were.
    >
    >
    >
  26. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    "Richard Crowley" <richard.7.crowley@intel.com> wrote in message
    news:dedmok$8j1$1@news01.intel.com...
    > "Jona Vark" wrote ...
    > >
    > > "Richard Crowley" wrote ...
    > >> There are no stepping motors in modern CD or DVD
    > >> players/recorders/computer drives.
    > >
    > > A bit broad. There are a good number of peripheral devices which still
    use
    > > stepper motors. A simple Google Search will yield hundreds of current
    > > devices using steppers.
    >
    > Yes, broadly speaking there ARE "a good number of peripheral
    > devices which still use stepper motors". However, note that my
    > statement was narowly restricted to CD and DVD devices.

    That was my point. A number of DVD devices showed up with specific mention
    of the steppers.
  27. Archived from groups: alt.video.dvd.software,rec.video.dvd.tech,rec.video.production,rec.video.desktop,rec.video.dvd.software (More info?)

    "Alpha" <logos1@trip.net> wrote in message
    news:11gkorn7uvfju91@corp.supernews.com...
    >
    > "Jona Vark" <noemail@all.com> wrote in message
    > news:DLnOe.89$A%1.78@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    > > They are NOT submicron steppers.
    >
    > I never said they were.


    Ok.. so you lashed out at me when I said the steppers are not high
    resolution devices. It is the microstep controllers that do the fine work.
    You may not have understood that and I suspect it is why you assumed what
    you did.

    >
    >
    >
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