There must be an easier way!

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Hi all,

My solution to this problem seems very drawn-out and i'm confident there's a more efficient way of doing things!

Essentially I have an hours worth of footage of a man talking face on close to the camera (it's for a web project). Rather than
been shot against a blue screen, he is standing in front of a mid-grey backdrop for the entire duration which clashes badly with the
man himself. My job is to remove this background so the man is on top of white.

Firstly, I tried various keying effects I have in Premiere Pro and After Effects 6 (the two software packages I use). I
experimented around and did some research - they worked brilliantly, but because the mans face and clothes had so similar tones to
the greu background, no matter how hard I tried and tweaked, all the keying effects would start removing out bits of the man when I
pushed the key to the desired levels. It worked on the whole of the image, whereas I wanted a magic-wand style affair which would
only pick up the grey background around the edge.

My solution was a really drawn out one - I exported a two minute test clip from the timeline as a PNG sequence. I then used an
action in Photoshop to open each frame, magic wand the top left corner of the image (set to contiguous, so it kept it to a local
selection), fill it in white, and save it. Using Virtualdub, I then re-constructed an AVI file from the Photoshop output.

It looked fantastic- but it just seems ridiculous. This is the only way I could fill the grey background white without interfering
with the man himself. Contiguous is the key thing here - i'd love some kind of effect in AE or Premiere which worked in this way

I'm thinking the solution probably surrounds some kinds of motion-tracking, but I'm not really sure how to do that because i'm quite
new to all this, and would really appreciate some advice!

Many, many thanks!
Chris
 
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"Chris S" <sav@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4308e6b6$0$365$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com...
> Hi all,
>
> My solution to this problem seems very drawn-out and i'm confident there's
> a more efficient way of doing things!
>
> Essentially I have an hours worth of footage of a man talking face on
> close to the camera (it's for a web project). Rather than been shot
> against a blue screen, he is standing in front of a mid-grey backdrop for
> the entire duration which clashes badly with the man himself. My job is to
> remove this background so the man is on top of white.
>
> Firstly, I tried various keying effects I have in Premiere Pro and After
> Effects 6 (the two software packages I use). I experimented around and
> did some research - they worked brilliantly, but because the mans face and
> clothes had so similar tones to the greu background, no matter how hard I
> tried and tweaked, all the keying effects would start removing out bits of
> the man when I pushed the key to the desired levels. It worked on the
> whole of the image, whereas I wanted a magic-wand style affair which would
> only pick up the grey background around the edge.
>
> My solution was a really drawn out one - I exported a two minute test clip
> from the timeline as a PNG sequence. I then used an action in Photoshop
> to open each frame, magic wand the top left corner of the image (set to
> contiguous, so it kept it to a local selection), fill it in white, and
> save it. Using Virtualdub, I then re-constructed an AVI file from the
> Photoshop output.
>
> It looked fantastic- but it just seems ridiculous. This is the only way I
> could fill the grey background white without interfering with the man
> himself. Contiguous is the key thing here - i'd love some kind of effect
> in AE or Premiere which worked in this way
>
> I'm thinking the solution probably surrounds some kinds of
> motion-tracking, but I'm not really sure how to do that because i'm quite
> new to all this, and would really appreciate some advice!
>
> Many, many thanks!
> Chris
>

You might try www.seriousmagic.com they have trials;
you can download.

Luck;
Ken
 
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On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 21:41:37 +0100, "Chris S" <sav@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>Essentially I have an hours worth of footage of a man talking face on close to the camera (it's for a web project). Rather than
>been shot against a blue screen, he is standing in front of a mid-grey backdrop for the entire duration which clashes badly with the
>man himself. My job is to remove this background so the man is on top of white.

Chris, unfortunately that is a bit of a problem. Mid-grey is the same tone
as the skin-tone, which makes it difficult for your keyer to _not_ key out
the face. There is another workaround, which helps if your subject doesn't
move to much. Copy the same video to a new layer, on top of the existing
layer. Key out the grey in your bottom layer. Next, draw a mask on your new
layer, which is just around the face of the subject. Now you will have a
copy of the face, which is not being keyed, on top of the keyed layer. Of
course, this takes a little bit of work, and if your subject doesn't move
too much, it will make your life easier.
Next time, light you background to a different level, or use greenscreen.

Have fun with this dauting task <evil grin>
(been there, done that, a few times)

cheers

-martin-
--

"Beer is life!"
 
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Hi Martin

I've been away - many thanks for this information. Is a greenscreen the most effective colour for this type of footage? Ive heard
blue ones also get used?

Thanks
Chris

"Martin Heffels" <biz@thisproductworks.com.> wrote in message news:shrhg1pp3v8tmufd4ru8b5mmafd5dl6um6@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 21:41:37 +0100, "Chris S" <sav@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>Essentially I have an hours worth of footage of a man talking face on close to the camera (it's for a web project). Rather than
>>been shot against a blue screen, he is standing in front of a mid-grey backdrop for the entire duration which clashes badly with
>>the
>>man himself. My job is to remove this background so the man is on top of white.
>
> Chris, unfortunately that is a bit of a problem. Mid-grey is the same tone
> as the skin-tone, which makes it difficult for your keyer to _not_ key out
> the face. There is another workaround, which helps if your subject doesn't
> move to much. Copy the same video to a new layer, on top of the existing
> layer. Key out the grey in your bottom layer. Next, draw a mask on your new
> layer, which is just around the face of the subject. Now you will have a
> copy of the face, which is not being keyed, on top of the keyed layer. Of
> course, this takes a little bit of work, and if your subject doesn't move
> too much, it will make your life easier.
> Next time, light you background to a different level, or use greenscreen.
>
> Have fun with this dauting task <evil grin>
> (been there, done that, a few times)
>
> cheers
>
> -martin-
> --
>
> "Beer is life!"
 

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"Chris S" <sav@nospam.com> wrote in
news:4310691f$0$12881$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com:

> Is a greenscreen
> the most effective colour for this type of footage? Ive heard blue
> ones also get used?


IME, green usually works better than blue because subjects are less likely
to have flourescent green color values in their clothing. But you should be
prepared to use either as needed, depending on the situation. IOW, if a
subject is wearing green, use the bluescreen. For everything else, use the
greenscreen.
 
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"Unknown" wrote ...
> "Chris S" wrote :
>> Is a greenscreen the most effective colour for this type
>> of footage? Ive heard blue ones also get used?
>
> IME, green usually works better than blue because subjects
> are less likely to have flourescent green color values in their
> clothing. But you should be prepared to use either as needed,
> depending on the situation. IOW, if a subject is wearing green,
> use the bluescreen. For everything else, use the greenscreen.

Green is also preferable when shooting DV because
blue (and red) have lower resolution than green
(due to the 4:1:1 compression for Y:U:V in NTSC
and 4:2:0 compression in PAL)

PS: The "fluorescence" (or brightness) of the color only
makes it easier to distingusih. The keyer works on the
*color* not the brightness. So even a non-fluorescent
green of the same hue will get keyed out if lit sufficiently.
 
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On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 14:23:51 +0100, "Chris S" <sav@nospam.com> wrote:

>Is a greenscreen the most effective colour for this type of footage? Ive heard
>blue ones also get used?

Richard Crowley answered that one :) If you can look at the seperate
colour-channels in your software, you can see that the blue-channel is very
messy in DV25, compared to the green one, which makes it difficult to key
out.
Blue is indeed also used, but less and less nowadays. It is a colour which
was found most effetice in the beginning of chromakeying on film. If you
ever get material shot with bluescreen on DV25, and you can split the
colour-channels, you might apply a slight blur to the blue-channel, which
takes out some of the compression artifacts, and can give you a better
matte.

cheers

-martin-
--

"Beer is life!"