Scene detection problem...mystery?

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

I was using a JVC DV camcorder with Sony Vegas 5 and Pinnacle Studio
9... capture via firewire. No problem with scene detection with
either program. Each discrete scene was being detected, and so I would
not have to manually split up a video. Recently I switched to a
Samsung DV camcorder. Now when I capture my videos shot with the new
Samsung, I end up with only one long video, it doesn't separate into
scenes. Same thing with either Studio 9 or Vegas 5. Its the camcorder
that is the problem. I took an old tape that was shot with the JVC
camcorder and played it in the Samsung, capturing a video with several
scenes. With this old tape, scene detection worked fine!

Whatever it is, it is something to do with the record mode on the new
Samsung, that is not allowing scene detection. Problem with time
code, maybe? But even if time code was not being encoded, wouldn't
these programs be able to detect scenes from the suddenly changed
image?

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Yea, that is what I am thinking.... time code might be turned off..
But it still doesn't explain why neither Studio 9 nor Vegas can't
detect scenes optically.They should still be able to do it that way
even if it is, right?
I scrolled through the on-screen camera mode menu and did not see any
option to turn off SMPTE. It is an Samsung SCD27, surely it encodes
SMPTE? Don't all of the mini-DV camcorders have SMPTE time encoding?
thanks, Jeronimo


On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 19:47:04 GMT, "PTravel"
<ptravel@travelersvideo.com> wrote:

>
>"Geronimo" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
>news:2819i1tk9bq6hsjaku5c7mmsol6b34ildp@4ax.com...
>> I was using a JVC DV camcorder with Sony Vegas 5 and Pinnacle Studio
>> 9... capture via firewire. No problem with scene detection with
>> either program. Each discrete scene was being detected, and so I would
>> not have to manually split up a video. Recently I switched to a
>> Samsung DV camcorder. Now when I capture my videos shot with the new
>> Samsung, I end up with only one long video, it doesn't separate into
>> scenes. Same thing with either Studio 9 or Vegas 5. Its the camcorder
>> that is the problem. I took an old tape that was shot with the JVC
>> camcorder and played it in the Samsung, capturing a video with several
>> scenes. With this old tape, scene detection worked fine!
>>
>> Whatever it is, it is something to do with the record mode on the new
>> Samsung, that is not allowing scene detection. Problem with time
>> code, maybe? But even if time code was not being encoded, wouldn't
>> these programs be able to detect scenes from the suddenly changed
>> image?
>
>Scene detection is done either optically, based on analysis of the image in
>each frame, or by breaks in the time and date information. Your new
>camcorder may not record time and date or, alternatively, you'll need to
>turn on that feature.
>
>>
>>
>>
>

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

Mike Kujbida wrote:
> I don't know about Studio 9 but I can tell you that Vegas does NOT do
> optical scene detection.
> You need an app like Scenalyzer (demo at
> http://www.scenalyzer.com/main.html ) for that.
> Also, you seem to be confused in that, if you see the on-screen counter
> incrementing, you think that time code is being recorded on tape. It's not
> unless you have the camera's internal clock activated. Since you said this
> is a new camera, my guess is that you've failed to do this. Make sure it's
> set correctly and I'm certain your problems will be over.
> BTW, miniDV timecode is not true SMPTE timecode like the higher-end (pro)
> camcorders use.
>
> Mike

Adobe Premiere Pro does optical scene detection, as does Scenealyzer as
you've noted. The shareware (free) version of Scenealyzer can do it,
too.

Good point about the on-screen counter. Once, I had re-set my VX2000
and didn't bother setting the clock/calendar. I shot 3 or 4 tapes
before I realized that I wasn't getting time/date code recorded.
Worse, 2 of the tapes were of fireworks at New Years in Copenhagen. I
used Scenelyzer for optical detection, but it was thrown off every time
some fireworks went off (which was every couple of seconds).



>
>
> Geronimo wrote:
> > Yea, that is what I am thinking.... time code might be turned off..
> > But it still doesn't explain why neither Studio 9 nor Vegas can't
> > detect scenes optically.They should still be able to do it that way
> > even if it is, right?
> > I scrolled through the on-screen camera mode menu and did not see any
> > option to turn off SMPTE. It is an Samsung SCD27, surely it encodes
> > SMPTE? Don't all of the mini-DV camcorders have SMPTE time encoding?
> > thanks, Jeronimo
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 19:47:04 GMT, "PTravel"
> > <ptravel@travelersvideo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> "Geronimo" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
> >> news:2819i1tk9bq6hsjaku5c7mmsol6b34ildp@4ax.com...
> >>> I was using a JVC DV camcorder with Sony Vegas 5 and Pinnacle Studio
> >>> 9... capture via firewire. No problem with scene detection with
> >>> either program. Each discrete scene was being detected, and so I
> >>> would not have to manually split up a video. Recently I switched to
> >>> a Samsung DV camcorder. Now when I capture my videos shot with the
> >>> new Samsung, I end up with only one long video, it doesn't separate
> >>> into scenes. Same thing with either Studio 9 or Vegas 5. Its the
> >>> camcorder that is the problem. I took an old tape that was shot
> >>> with the JVC camcorder and played it in the Samsung, capturing a
> >>> video with several scenes. With this old tape, scene detection
> >>> worked fine!
> >>>
> >>> Whatever it is, it is something to do with the record mode on the
> >>> new Samsung, that is not allowing scene detection. Problem with
> >>> time code, maybe? But even if time code was not being encoded,
> >>> wouldn't these programs be able to detect scenes from the suddenly
> >>> changed image?
> >>
> >> Scene detection is done either optically, based on analysis of the
> >> image in each frame, or by breaks in the time and date information.
> >> Your new camcorder may not record time and date or, alternatively,
> >> you'll need to turn on that feature.

Archived from groups: rec.video.desktop (More info?)

You guys are dead-on it I'll bet. It is a used camcorder I bought from
a guy in Canada, so I thought it was still set, but just not showing
on-screen. But it was not set ,it was showing Jan 1 2003. I assumed
that even if time/date was not set, it would just record the default
time code to tape....but I guess not. Haven't tried it again since
setting time, but I am sure that should do the trick. Thanks again, J.


On 12 Sep 2005 00:22:46 -0700, ptravel@travelersvideo.com wrote:

>
>Geronimo wrote:
>> Yea, that is what I am thinking.... time code might be turned off..
>> But it still doesn't explain why neither Studio 9 nor Vegas can't
>> detect scenes optically.They should still be able to do it that way
>> even if it is, right?
>> I scrolled through the on-screen camera mode menu and did not see any
>> option to turn off SMPTE. It is an Samsung SCD27, surely it encodes
>> SMPTE? Don't all of the mini-DV camcorders have SMPTE time encoding?
>> thanks, Jeronimo
>
>It's not SMPTE -- it's just date and time and should be recorded
>automatically as it's part of the miniDV spec. Hey, I just thought of
>something -- in my reply to Mike Kujiba's post, I related an instance
>in which I reset my camera, but didn't set the date and time. I
>assumed that the camera would just record date and time based on
>whatever the initial default is, e.g. 12:00 am 12/1/80 or something.
>In fact, it didn't record date and time at all.
>
>So . . . is your date and time set?
>
>As for optical detection, Mike Kujiba says that Vegas doesn't do it,
>and I don't use Studio 9, so I couldn't say. I did used to use Studio
>7 and I seem to recall that it could. Anyway, Premiere Pro definitely
>does, but the best solution is to download a free copy of Scenealyzer,
>which will take your full-tape captures and do very creditable optical
>detection.
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 19:47:04 GMT, "PTravel"
>> <ptravel@travelersvideo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Geronimo" <someone@somewhere.net> wrote in message
>> >news:2819i1tk9bq6hsjaku5c7mmsol6b34ildp@4ax.com...
>> >> I was using a JVC DV camcorder with Sony Vegas 5 and Pinnacle Studio
>> >> 9... capture via firewire. No problem with scene detection with
>> >> either program. Each discrete scene was being detected, and so I would
>> >> not have to manually split up a video. Recently I switched to a
>> >> Samsung DV camcorder. Now when I capture my videos shot with the new
>> >> Samsung, I end up with only one long video, it doesn't separate into
>> >> scenes. Same thing with either Studio 9 or Vegas 5. Its the camcorder
>> >> that is the problem. I took an old tape that was shot with the JVC
>> >> camcorder and played it in the Samsung, capturing a video with several
>> >> scenes. With this old tape, scene detection worked fine!
>> >>
>> >> Whatever it is, it is something to do with the record mode on the new
>> >> Samsung, that is not allowing scene detection. Problem with time
>> >> code, maybe? But even if time code was not being encoded, wouldn't
>> >> these programs be able to detect scenes from the suddenly changed
>> >> image?
>> >
>> >Scene detection is done either optically, based on analysis of the image in
>> >each frame, or by breaks in the time and date information. Your new
>> >camcorder may not record time and date or, alternatively, you'll need to
>> >turn on that feature.
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >