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Change timezone WITHOUT changing appointment times

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June 2, 2004 6:19:33 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I travel frequently and love the ability to change the
clock to the new timezone with a click of a button but
why does it want to change all of my appointment times.
This is extremely frustrating. I set all of my
appointments in their local time - not in my home
timezone. How can I change timezones WITHOUT changing
appointment times (now I just change the clock)?

Thanks, Bruce
Anonymous
June 2, 2004 9:23:53 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

This is a subject that has created huge frustrations and much traffic
here since day one... i.e. for years.

MS's approach is that all appointments are actually kept in GMT time and
adjusted for the current time zone...

The theory being that if you have a conference call scheduled at the
home office and are traveling, the call entry will automatically
compensate for different time zones.

The "default" way to deal with this is to make the appointment with the
timezone where the appointment is to be kept selected... i.e. you are in
NY setting up an appointment for a trip to LA, select Pacific time, set
the appointment and then set it back.

There are a number of third party "fixes" for this.

There are also some home brew coping tricks, but, be careful as these
can eventually lead to appointments "switching days" especially if you
travel internationally.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
Anonymous
June 2, 2004 9:23:54 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

And to add a minor bit, the easiest way to cope, is to do just what you are
doing...change the time.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in
message news:eIrb0APSEHA.3596@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> This is a subject that has created huge frustrations and much traffic
> here since day one... i.e. for years.
>
> MS's approach is that all appointments are actually kept in GMT time and
> adjusted for the current time zone...
>
> The theory being that if you have a conference call scheduled at the
> home office and are traveling, the call entry will automatically
> compensate for different time zones.
>
> The "default" way to deal with this is to make the appointment with the
> timezone where the appointment is to be kept selected... i.e. you are in
> NY setting up an appointment for a trip to LA, select Pacific time, set
> the appointment and then set it back.
>
> There are a number of third party "fixes" for this.
>
> There are also some home brew coping tricks, but, be careful as these
> can eventually lead to appointments "switching days" especially if you
> travel internationally.
>
> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
>
Related resources
Anonymous
June 3, 2004 9:39:05 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I think that is why it is called TimeZone...

Appointments for a specific timezone MUST be created in the correct
timezone...

That's how things work...

The world is getting smaller and smaller and timezone differences are things
which must be factored in.

Let's say it's your mother's or wife's birthday on June 20... You want to
greet her at the stroke of midnight. You would want your PPC to remind you
about the appointment based on your mother's/wife's timezone.

If you happen to live in the same locale... then you will be sharing the
same time zone... But if you move to another location with a different
timezone... let's say with a 3hr difference... I don't think your 12am on
that other timezone will match your mom's/wife's timezone and your greeting
her will be either 3 hrs early or 3 hrs late.

The correct way to use the timezone system is to jump to the other time zone
where the appointment is supposed to take place and place it there. When
you go to your own time zone... I know it will look weird but it is very
much correct. And if you synch it to your desktop PC and activate show
alternate timezone on Outlook, you will see two timezones running
side-by-side and will be easier for your secretary t track you down if you
are in the meeting and can even make it easier to coordinate with her...
like "email me the latest reports an hour before my meeting" which based on
time zones... will mean that you are totally synchronized.

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"Bruce" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1717401c448e7$4cdccac0$a601280a@phx.gbl...
I travel frequently and love the ability to change the
clock to the new timezone with a click of a button but
why does it want to change all of my appointment times.
This is extremely frustrating. I set all of my
appointments in their local time - not in my home
timezone. How can I change timezones WITHOUT changing
appointment times (now I just change the clock)?

Thanks, Bruce
Anonymous
June 3, 2004 9:39:06 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP]" <ppcsurfr@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:eisud6USEHA.2716@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:

> I think that is why it is called TimeZone...
>
> Appointments for a specific timezone MUST be created in the correct
> timezone...
>
> That's how things work...
>
> The world is getting smaller and smaller and timezone differences are
> things which must be factored in.
>
> Let's say it's your mother's or wife's birthday on June 20... You want
> to greet her at the stroke of midnight. You would want your PPC to
> remind you about the appointment based on your mother's/wife's
> timezone.
>
> If you happen to live in the same locale... then you will be sharing
> the same time zone... But if you move to another location with a
> different timezone... let's say with a 3hr difference... I don't think
> your 12am on that other timezone will match your mom's/wife's timezone
> and your greeting her will be either 3 hrs early or 3 hrs late.
>
> The correct way to use the timezone system is to jump to the other
> time zone where the appointment is supposed to take place and place it
> there. When you go to your own time zone... I know it will look weird
> but it is very much correct. And if you synch it to your desktop PC
> and activate show alternate timezone on Outlook, you will see two
> timezones running side-by-side and will be easier for your secretary t
> track you down if you are in the meeting and can even make it easier
> to coordinate with her... like "email me the latest reports an hour
> before my meeting" which based on time zones... will mean that you are
> totally synchronized.
>

WADR, That's not intuitive and not the way the vast majority of us think
or do things. I'm on the East coast. If I have a meeting tomorrow at
1500, that's what I enter. Next Monday I'm going to LA. Tuesday I'll have
a meeting at 0900. Guess what, I'll enter it as 0900. I want to change to
displayed time to be in sync with the people at that location. OTOH,
until I get there, I don't want to see that meeting displayed as 0600 and
have to think about converting all the time.
Anonymous
June 3, 2004 9:39:07 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

>> Not intuitave... <<

Actually, we have learned to deal with the timezone changes in our own
brains... i.e. if "home" is in NY, you don't call to chat at 10pm when
you are in LA ;-)

It's "hard" because we "know" that a 10am appointment in LA is going to
occur at 10am pacific.

This issue has been around a long time in Windows itself, but it hasn't
been visible because desktops and even laptops don't travel as well as
pocketpc's.

Bottom line, MS' been told... many times, and, while they might address
this in future releases, the best defense at the moment is knowledge
about how things are structured.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
Anonymous
June 3, 2004 9:42:19 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Changing time is definitely the easiest but not the best...

While it sticks by your personal calendar and appoinments... you will be
totally out of synch with people in other time zones.

IMO, the Time Zone approach is still the best and it is by no means broken.

What I think has to be done by Microsoft is merely to make it more seamless
and simpler for every user to use.

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices" <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o vpymaPSEHA.2520@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
And to add a minor bit, the easiest way to cope, is to do just what you are
doing...change the time.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in
message news:eIrb0APSEHA.3596@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> This is a subject that has created huge frustrations and much traffic
> here since day one... i.e. for years.
>
> MS's approach is that all appointments are actually kept in GMT time and
> adjusted for the current time zone...
>
> The theory being that if you have a conference call scheduled at the
> home office and are traveling, the call entry will automatically
> compensate for different time zones.
>
> The "default" way to deal with this is to make the appointment with the
> timezone where the appointment is to be kept selected... i.e. you are in
> NY setting up an appointment for a trip to LA, select Pacific time, set
> the appointment and then set it back.
>
> There are a number of third party "fixes" for this.
>
> There are also some home brew coping tricks, but, be careful as these
> can eventually lead to appointments "switching days" especially if you
> travel internationally.
>
> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
>
Anonymous
June 3, 2004 9:52:53 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Maybe not for you, but for many of us it is. Global or not, I put in
appointments for when they happen. A 9AM appointment happens at 9AM, it goes
on my calendar at 9AM. If it so happens that it is in another city, I expect
I will actually be in that city at that time. I will not have to wonder why
I have a 6AM appointment, or why am I having lunch at 3PM, before I get
there and change the Zone, and I do not have to add a time to the
appointment text to remind me of when it really is, nor did I have to go
through gyrations to enter the appointment at the appropriate time zone in
which it happens.

I understand that it could be beneficial if you have things happening in a
different timezone than where you are. If you have a conference call,
automatically shifting that time as you change timezones can be useful. I
find, though, that I have many more appointments where I am, than where I am
not.

I understand it is not broken, i.e. it does exactly what it was designed to
do. It does, however, not help me, so I just ignore the second time zone
feature in the clock. For me, that is the best solution. At least until we
get a check box that says, screw up the appointments, or not, when changing
to visiting time zone. That is about the best I think we could ever expect.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP]" <ppcsurfr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23iVaR8USEHA.3872@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Changing time is definitely the easiest but not the best...

> --
> Carlo Ma. Guerrero
> Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices
>
>
> "Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices" <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:o vpymaPSEHA.2520@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> And to add a minor bit, the easiest way to cope, is to do just what you
are
> doing...change the time.
>
> --
> Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
> "Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in
> message news:eIrb0APSEHA.3596@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > This is a subject that has created huge frustrations and much traffic
> > here since day one... i.e. for years.
> >
> > MS's approach is that all appointments are actually kept in GMT time and
> > adjusted for the current time zone...
> >
> > The theory being that if you have a conference call scheduled at the
> > home office and are traveling, the call entry will automatically
> > compensate for different time zones.
> >
> > The "default" way to deal with this is to make the appointment with the
> > timezone where the appointment is to be kept selected... i.e. you are in
> > NY setting up an appointment for a trip to LA, select Pacific time, set
> > the appointment and then set it back.
> >
> > There are a number of third party "fixes" for this.
> >
> > There are also some home brew coping tricks, but, be careful as these
> > can eventually lead to appointments "switching days" especially if you
> > travel internationally.
> >
> > Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
> >
>
>
>
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 1:49:48 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Asher N <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94FD5956C4A14anadamyahoocom@66.185.95.104>...

> WADR, That's not intuitive and not the way the vast majority of us think
> or do things.

I'm not sure how any method MS chose would be "intuitive". Lots of
people find time zones hard to deal with, period.

> I'm on the East coast. If I have a meeting tomorrow at
> 1500, that's what I enter. Next Monday I'm going to LA. Tuesday I'll have
> a meeting at 0900. Guess what, I'll enter it as 0900.

But it's not at 9- it's at 12! ;-)

What if, in a last minute cost-cutting measure, the company cancels
your trip, and tells you to "attend" via conference call from your
(east coast) office? You'll be calling them 3 hours early! ;-)

Perhaps it's not "intuitive" but it's sort of "correct". Any event
only occurs at one actual moment in time, and the PPC reflects that.
That 9AM appointment could be entered one of two ways- either at 12pm
(after "manually" adding three hours in your head), or by setting the
PPC time zone to Pacific, enter the appointment, then switch the PPC
back to local time.

> I want to change to
> displayed time to be in sync with the people at that location.

Then don't use the time zone feature- just set the PPC clock to the
new time when you land, like a watch. We don't tell our Timex what
zone we're in- we simply move it ahead or behind.

> OTOH,
> until I get there, I don't want to see that meeting displayed as 0600 and
> have to think about converting all the time.

If you're on the East coast, it'll display as 1200, not 0600. Maybe
you need the time zone function more than you think! ;-)

I use a system similar to Carlo's suggestion- I'd enter your
appointment in "universal time" (so the 9AM LA appointment would be
entered as 12PM eastern) but I'd name it something like "LA Meeting-
9AM PDT".

Kidding aside, regardless of the merits (or lack thereof) of the time
zone implementation on PPCs, YOU don't like it, and after all, it's
your device.

My suggestion, is to enter the appointments the way you're already
used to doing, set the clock manually when you travel, and use a 3rd
party "world clock" app (I think there are a few freebies at
www.freewareppc.com) to duplicate the home/visiting clock function you
lose by manually setting the clock.

Good luck!
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 3:02:23 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I think the issue then is not the implementation of the Time Zone but the
lack of information displayed regarding an event happening on a different
time zone.

Here is a workaround for it...

Along with the Appointment subject... write the time in parenthesis.

Example: Meeting with Board (9:00am)

Enter this after temporarily switching to the LA Time Zone...

When you get back to your own time zone, it will appear as 6:00am - 7:00am
Meeting with Board (9:00am)

So now.. even in your own time zone, you have a converted time for it...
It's not a great workaround... but it does take away some confusion.

What would be nice it if it showed the converted time by default...then if
an appointment is moved, the reflected time will also change.

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"Asher N" <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94FD5956C4A14anadamyahoocom@66.185.95.104...
"Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP]" <ppcsurfr@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:eisud6USEHA.2716@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:

> I think that is why it is called TimeZone...
>
> Appointments for a specific timezone MUST be created in the correct
> timezone...
>
> That's how things work...
>
> The world is getting smaller and smaller and timezone differences are
> things which must be factored in.
>
> Let's say it's your mother's or wife's birthday on June 20... You want
> to greet her at the stroke of midnight. You would want your PPC to
> remind you about the appointment based on your mother's/wife's
> timezone.
>
> If you happen to live in the same locale... then you will be sharing
> the same time zone... But if you move to another location with a
> different timezone... let's say with a 3hr difference... I don't think
> your 12am on that other timezone will match your mom's/wife's timezone
> and your greeting her will be either 3 hrs early or 3 hrs late.
>
> The correct way to use the timezone system is to jump to the other
> time zone where the appointment is supposed to take place and place it
> there. When you go to your own time zone... I know it will look weird
> but it is very much correct. And if you synch it to your desktop PC
> and activate show alternate timezone on Outlook, you will see two
> timezones running side-by-side and will be easier for your secretary t
> track you down if you are in the meeting and can even make it easier
> to coordinate with her... like "email me the latest reports an hour
> before my meeting" which based on time zones... will mean that you are
> totally synchronized.
>

WADR, That's not intuitive and not the way the vast majority of us think
or do things. I'm on the East coast. If I have a meeting tomorrow at
1500, that's what I enter. Next Monday I'm going to LA. Tuesday I'll have
a meeting at 0900. Guess what, I'll enter it as 0900. I want to change to
displayed time to be in sync with the people at that location. OTOH,
until I get there, I don't want to see that meeting displayed as 0600 and
have to think about converting all the time.
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 3:35:44 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I'm not sure how many people will find themselves in this situation, but
having an appointment appear at 9:00am with no reference to the time may
just be a recipe for more confusion.

Here is an example... If any 2 appointments, regardless of which time zone
it takes place in, appears in a calendar, how will the user know which is
which?

June 8, 2004 - 9:00am-10:00am Meet with John (L.A. time)
June 8, 2004 - 10:00am-10:30am Conference call with Home Office (Home time)

When two events occuring in different timezones are placed on a particular
date, and the Time Zone settings are ignored... such as the result of just
changing the clock time instead of the Time Zone, all schedules will get
mixed up.

Sometimes it isn't too noticeable with people moving within a large country
such as the US... but people who deal with other people in timezones which
are totally way off... the TimeZone principle makes the best sense...

Here is why...

I'm here in the Philippines... we are on +8GMT
If a chat is happening and being hosted in the US... Redmond to be
specific... the time zone of Redmond would be 15hrs due to DST... (but would
normally be 16hrs)

Chat time in US is set for 3:00pm June 21, 2004 PST... I go and set my
visiting time to Redmond's time... and go to the date... June 21, 2004...
3:00pm Chat with MVPs.

I enter that, and move back to my TimeZone... guess when I should be up and
waiting?

I have to be up at 6:00am of June 22, 2004 my time. And because of the Time
Zone, I've got it all right.

But then again... I'd like to see what that visiting time is... It would be
nice if I could see (June 21, 2004, 3:00pm) on my schedule... maybe if and
when this gets integrated in Pocket Outlook, people will be more confortable
with time zones...

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"Asher N" <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94FD5956C4A14anadamyahoocom@66.185.95.104...
"Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP]" <ppcsurfr@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:eisud6USEHA.2716@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:

> I think that is why it is called TimeZone...
>
> Appointments for a specific timezone MUST be created in the correct
> timezone...
>
> That's how things work...
>
> The world is getting smaller and smaller and timezone differences are
> things which must be factored in.
>
> Let's say it's your mother's or wife's birthday on June 20... You want
> to greet her at the stroke of midnight. You would want your PPC to
> remind you about the appointment based on your mother's/wife's
> timezone.
>
> If you happen to live in the same locale... then you will be sharing
> the same time zone... But if you move to another location with a
> different timezone... let's say with a 3hr difference... I don't think
> your 12am on that other timezone will match your mom's/wife's timezone
> and your greeting her will be either 3 hrs early or 3 hrs late.
>
> The correct way to use the timezone system is to jump to the other
> time zone where the appointment is supposed to take place and place it
> there. When you go to your own time zone... I know it will look weird
> but it is very much correct. And if you synch it to your desktop PC
> and activate show alternate timezone on Outlook, you will see two
> timezones running side-by-side and will be easier for your secretary t
> track you down if you are in the meeting and can even make it easier
> to coordinate with her... like "email me the latest reports an hour
> before my meeting" which based on time zones... will mean that you are
> totally synchronized.
>

WADR, That's not intuitive and not the way the vast majority of us think
or do things. I'm on the East coast. If I have a meeting tomorrow at
1500, that's what I enter. Next Monday I'm going to LA. Tuesday I'll have
a meeting at 0900. Guess what, I'll enter it as 0900. I want to change to
displayed time to be in sync with the people at that location. OTOH,
until I get there, I don't want to see that meeting displayed as 0600 and
have to think about converting all the time.
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 3:35:45 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP]" <ppcsurfr@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:e#UxwBYSEHA.1048@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl:

> I'm not sure how many people will find themselves in this situation,
> but having an appointment appear at 9:00am with no reference to the
> time may just be a recipe for more confusion.
>
> Here is an example... If any 2 appointments, regardless of which time
> zone it takes place in, appears in a calendar, how will the user know
> which is which?
>
> June 8, 2004 - 9:00am-10:00am Meet with John (L.A. time)
> June 8, 2004 - 10:00am-10:30am Conference call with Home Office (Home
> time)
>
> When two events occuring in different timezones are placed on a
> particular date, and the Time Zone settings are ignored... such as the
> result of just changing the clock time instead of the Time Zone, all
> schedules will get mixed up.
>

No, because I would set the appt at the local time of the location I
would be at.
Anonymous
June 4, 2004 6:06:32 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices" <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:e7hQlXcSEHA.3692@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:

> Maybe not for you, but for many of us it is. Global or not, I put in
> appointments for when they happen. A 9AM appointment happens at 9AM,
> it goes on my calendar at 9AM. If it so happens that it is in another
> city, I expect I will actually be in that city at that time. I will
> not have to wonder why I have a 6AM appointment, or why am I having
> lunch at 3PM, before I get there and change the Zone, and I do not
> have to add a time to the appointment text to remind me of when it
> really is, nor did I have to go through gyrations to enter the
> appointment at the appropriate time zone in which it happens.
>
> I understand that it could be beneficial if you have things happening
> in a different timezone than where you are. If you have a conference
> call, automatically shifting that time as you change timezones can be
> useful. I find, though, that I have many more appointments where I am,
> than where I am not.
>
> I understand it is not broken, i.e. it does exactly what it was
> designed to do. It does, however, not help me, so I just ignore the
> second time zone feature in the clock. For me, that is the best
> solution. At least until we get a check box that says, screw up the
> appointments, or not, when changing to visiting time zone. That is
> about the best I think we could ever expect.
>

Very well said. Just look at an airline ticket. All times are local. If
you look at the ticket, it takes almost no time to fly from Toronto to
Chigago and over 2 hours to fly back.

What I need is a second clock. I get to where I'm going, select the
second clock, and my time displayed is reset. Just trust me about the
appointments.
June 4, 2004 7:08:43 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

> I use a system similar to Carlo's suggestion- I'd enter your
> appointment in "universal time" (so the 9AM LA appointment would be
> entered as 12PM eastern) but I'd name it something like "LA Meeting-
> 9AM PDT".
>
> Kidding aside, regardless of the merits (or lack thereof) of the time
> zone implementation on PPCs, YOU don't like it, and after all, it's
> your device.
>
> My suggestion, is to enter the appointments the way you're already
> used to doing, set the clock manually when you travel, and use a 3rd
> party "world clock" app (I think there are a few freebies at
> www.freewareppc.com) to duplicate the home/visiting clock function you
> lose by manually setting the clock.

In my opinion, the ideal would be to have the TimeZone as attribute of the
appointement. When entering an appointement, you would be able to set the
TimeZone, instead of just the date/hour (no TZ entered would assume local
TZ).
This woul allow the PIM to always display the time of the appointement in
your local time but showing you the distant time and time zone in the
information. Something like
8:30 (2:30 PM CEDT) : meeting with John
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 7:05:59 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Bambi,

That would be the most logical...

I think everyone would find it less confusing if it were that way...

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"Bambi" <me@there.com> wrote in message
news:c9ps63$1p1f$1@si05.rsvl.unisys.com...
> I use a system similar to Carlo's suggestion- I'd enter your
> appointment in "universal time" (so the 9AM LA appointment would be
> entered as 12PM eastern) but I'd name it something like "LA Meeting-
> 9AM PDT".
>
> Kidding aside, regardless of the merits (or lack thereof) of the time
> zone implementation on PPCs, YOU don't like it, and after all, it's
> your device.
>
> My suggestion, is to enter the appointments the way you're already
> used to doing, set the clock manually when you travel, and use a 3rd
> party "world clock" app (I think there are a few freebies at
> www.freewareppc.com) to duplicate the home/visiting clock function you
> lose by manually setting the clock.

In my opinion, the ideal would be to have the TimeZone as attribute of the
appointement. When entering an appointement, you would be able to set the
TimeZone, instead of just the date/hour (no TZ entered would assume local
TZ).
This woul allow the PIM to always display the time of the appointement in
your local time but showing you the distant time and time zone in the
information. Something like
8:30 (2:30 PM CEDT) : meeting with John
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 7:06:00 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

imho, the best solution would be to have a timezone "pulldown" on each
appointment that defaulted to the currently selected timezone

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 7:06:01 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in news:
#pZt7wmSEHA.2236@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:

> imho, the best solution would be to have a timezone "pulldown" on each
> appointment that defaulted to the currently selected timezone
>
> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
>
>

The best solution is to not have a time zone change affect appointmnt
times. The majority of the time, you book an appointment in the local time
of the location. Even with setting the appt as 0900 PST and have it display
as 1200 until I reset the TZ to PST, I still have to go through mental
girations to remember what my schedule is. Take my example of an airline
ticket. If I'm flying Toronto to Chicago (1.5 hrs, -1 hour TZ), my
departure time says 1200, arrival says 1230, not 1330. It's intuitive. If I
have somebody get me at the airport, I don't have to mentally translate. If
I set an appointment for 0900 Chicago time, a few days before leaving, I
can see that the meeting is for 0900, I'll be in that time zone. let's me
organize accordingly. I think that the current method is the software
trying to be too smart.
Anonymous
June 5, 2004 4:35:24 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

No... That does not work as you will end up doing more mental time
conversions as well...

If you think of it that way...

1. You're in timezone A which is your home time zone.
2. You have a meeting in timezone B which has 3 hours difference
3. You fly off to timezone B and attend a meeting there at 3pm (while your
home timezone is 6pm)
4. While in timezone B you have a conference call to attend at timezone A -
your home timezone set at 4pm

Result... if it displays the way you want it... you will definitley miss
your conference call since you have all times reflect with no regard with
the concept of Timezones. Your call based on the appintment set on your
calendar will then be made at 4PM as it is stated while in your current time
zone... so how do you make it to your conference call which is scheduled at
4PM Timezone A?

I think Bambi has gotten the concept right and it was a topic which we've
discussed as well.

You cannot disregard timezones. It is part of our lives. GMT, PST, EST, so
on and so forth are used to give reference to a certain time zone.

Even people wo used to listen to HAM radios or SW radios use this... and
they get schedule set int GMT... all times based on GMT.

With the Pocket PC, it is easier to set appointments on different timezones
but there is still something missing...

Going back to what Bambi suggested... it coincidentally is very similar to
what I suggested when the timezone issue came back once again. If you are in
timezone A and your appointments are made for timezone A, it will be where
it normally is... But if you are still in timezone A and want to see an
appointment entered for Timezone B, an extra time in red enclosed in
parenthesis 6:00pm-7:00pm Meeting with John (3:00pm-4:00pm GMT-08) appears.

If you are in Timezone B and look at appointments made for timezone A, you
will see 1:00pm-2:00pm Conference Call(4:00pm-5:00pm GMT-05) which the
times in the parenthesis are the times in the timezone where you are not in.

I'll throw you back the same situation and try to write it in a paper based
planner.

Your home timezone is A and you are visiting timezone B for a meeting. To
give you a time reference when it's 12PM in Timezone A, it's 9AM in
timezone B
Your meeting is set at 3PM timezone B
You have to make a conference call set at 4PM Timezone A as your boss said
he wants to talk to his staff at 4PM Timezone A.
How do you write this down and where do you write the appointment?

My bet is knowing that you willbe in a different timezone, you will write
based on the timezone you will be in for that day and write in at 1PM
Conference call (4pm home).

Same concept.

The Timezone system is not broken... the Pocket PC just needs to show a
little more data and things will be less confusing.

As a workaround, I strongly suggest that you place your appointments for a
certain timezone where they should be... in the visiting Timezone... and
then duplicate the time by manually entering it after or before the
subject...

3:00-4:00 (3:00-4:00)Meeting with John

so when you shift back to the home timezone

6:00-7:00 (3:00-4:00)Meeting with John

you still have a reference of what the real time for that other timezone
is...

Keep your fingers crossed... and hope that something better is on the way.
--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"Asher N" <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94FED2AB0C7EAanadamyahoocom@66.185.95.104...
"Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in news:
#pZt7wmSEHA.2236@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:

> imho, the best solution would be to have a timezone "pulldown" on each
> appointment that defaulted to the currently selected timezone
>
> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
>
>

The best solution is to not have a time zone change affect appointmnt
times. The majority of the time, you book an appointment in the local time
of the location. Even with setting the appt as 0900 PST and have it display
as 1200 until I reset the TZ to PST, I still have to go through mental
girations to remember what my schedule is. Take my example of an airline
ticket. If I'm flying Toronto to Chicago (1.5 hrs, -1 hour TZ), my
departure time says 1200, arrival says 1230, not 1330. It's intuitive. If I
have somebody get me at the airport, I don't have to mentally translate. If
I set an appointment for 0900 Chicago time, a few days before leaving, I
can see that the meeting is for 0900, I'll be in that time zone. let's me
organize accordingly. I think that the current method is the software
trying to be too smart.
Anonymous
June 6, 2004 12:23:57 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

My point being, if you had EDT selected, all appointments entered would
be made in EDT, but you would have the option to "pulldown" a different
time zone, retaining the ability to follow appointments such as
conference calls back in the home timezone when traveling.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
Anonymous
June 6, 2004 3:07:21 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I have a feeling that this is one of those things that there are so many
ways to do it, you are only going to please a minority percentage no matter
what you do. The majority will of course, be vocal. One thing I keep in
mind is that it behaves just like desktop Outlook today. I would guess
there would be some real hesitance to make the PPC and the desktop work
substantially differently, meaning the desktop version would need to be
changed as well, if change were in the offing. I'm not sure I see that
happening. I think we are all just going to have to adopt the work-around
that works best for us individually.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in
message news:%23wj3zT2SEHA.2780@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> My point being, if you had EDT selected, all appointments entered would
> be made in EDT, but you would have the option to "pulldown" a different
> time zone, retaining the ability to follow appointments such as
> conference calls back in the home timezone when traveling.
>
> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
>
Anonymous
June 7, 2004 2:01:07 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Asher N <compguy666@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94FED2AB0C7EAanadamyahoocom@66.185.95.104>...

> The best solution is to not have a time zone change affect appointmnt
> times.

You already have that ability by NOT using the "home/visiting" time
function on the PPC.

Simply adjust the "home" time manually like you set your watch and
travel alarm and it works just like you want. If you don't want your
PPC to adjust time zones, you don't "need" the home/visiting zone
feature, since the shifting is it's primary purpose!.

Try to think of the home/visiting zone function as part of the
calendar program (the shifting part you don't like) and don't use it.

> The majority of the time, you book an appointment in the local time
> of the location. Even with setting the appt as 0900 PST and have it display
> as 1200 until I reset the TZ to PST, I still have to go through mental
> girations to remember what my schedule is.

Not if you label the appointment in local time in it's description, as
many have suggested.

> Take my example of an airline
> ticket. If I'm flying Toronto to Chicago (1.5 hrs, -1 hour TZ), my
> departure time says 1200, arrival says 1230, not 1330. It's intuitive. If I
> have somebody get me at the airport, I don't have to mentally translate.

True. However, that confuses the hell out of my mother when she
visits me in Denver from Providence. She wonders why the flight is 7
hours in one direction, but only 3 in the other! ;-)

> If
> I set an appointment for 0900 Chicago time, a few days before leaving, I
> can see that the meeting is for 0900, I'll be in that time zone. let's me
> organize accordingly.

Then use your PPC as I've described. Reset the "home" time for local
time, but never change your zone.

> I think that the current method is the software
> trying to be too smart.

No, it IS smart, because those of us who work with multiple time zones
can use it as designed, yet those who want it to work like you do can
work around it.
Anonymous
June 7, 2004 3:27:33 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Either that or learn to live basing time on GMT... :-)

I know it's a concept accpeted by a minority... or a concept taken for
granted by so many...

But in the end it does mak a lot of sense. The workarounds posted here give
options on how to go about these time changes... some workarounds completely
disregard the concept of the Timezone, and some take it into consideration.

In the end it is all up to us the users if we embrace the concept of
Timezones or not.

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices" <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23ZPp9i%23SEHA.2504@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
I have a feeling that this is one of those things that there are so many
ways to do it, you are only going to please a minority percentage no matter
what you do. The majority will of course, be vocal. One thing I keep in
mind is that it behaves just like desktop Outlook today. I would guess
there would be some real hesitance to make the PPC and the desktop work
substantially differently, meaning the desktop version would need to be
changed as well, if change were in the offing. I'm not sure I see that
happening. I think we are all just going to have to adopt the work-around
that works best for us individually.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in
message news:%23wj3zT2SEHA.2780@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> My point being, if you had EDT selected, all appointments entered would
> be made in EDT, but you would have the option to "pulldown" a different
> time zone, retaining the ability to follow appointments such as
> conference calls back in the home timezone when traveling.
>
> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
>
Anonymous
June 7, 2004 3:40:39 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

The reason it changes becous the appointments are shceduled to occur in
differnet timezones...

All times are written in relation to GMT...

This is not at all bad... but the confusion arises when you look at an
appointment that has to happen in a few days and you would want to see it in
the correct timezone... The only way to make the actual time of occurence
and the set time for that particular timezone is to write the StartTime and
EndTime along with the subject.

This way, even if you move timezones, the time in the visiting timezone is
reflected too.

--
Carlo Ma. Guerrero
Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices


"Bruce" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1717401c448e7$4cdccac0$a601280a@phx.gbl...
I travel frequently and love the ability to change the
clock to the new timezone with a click of a button but
why does it want to change all of my appointment times.
This is extremely frustrating. I set all of my
appointments in their local time - not in my home
timezone. How can I change timezones WITHOUT changing
appointment times (now I just change the clock)?

Thanks, Bruce
Anonymous
June 7, 2004 3:50:09 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

>> Simply adjust the "home" time manually like you set your watch... <<

While that works in most cases, there have been some posts here over the
past years referencing doing just this that resulted in a "date shift"
that wasn't noticed that moved all appointments back a day with all of
the associated pain that one would expect.

As a result, it is important that whoever takes this approach pays
attention to the following;

Confirm the date after each time adjustment.

Once this approach is taken, do not alter the timezone when traveling.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
Anonymous
June 9, 2004 1:45:10 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I think that would just substitute a whole different source of confusion.
You would still have to figure out what is happening currently in the
foreign location. That is, I would have no problem knowing when to call my
friends in London, as they get up around 7AM and go to bed around 11PM. I'm
getting ready to go to bed here, it's almost 4AM and I'll be sleeping till
about Noon (GMT). If you call me at 8AM, I'll be pissed.

Now I just need to figure out what time it is in Germany, or wherever, and I
have a clue what those folks are doing. But if 9AM was 9AM everywhere, I
think it would be tougher to keep track of who is getting up, going to bed,
sound asleep or eating lunch.

I go along with this concept if you moved GMT to Colorado :) 

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP]" <ppcsurfr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eo29f9DTEHA.3812@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Either that or learn to live basing time on GMT... :-)
>
> I know it's a concept accpeted by a minority... or a concept taken for
> granted by so many...
>

> --
> Carlo Ma. Guerrero
> Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices
>
>
Anonymous
June 11, 2004 1:19:17 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

You might want to have a look at CorrectTime by
http://www.pocketinformant.com/p_correcttime.php

--
Mauricio Freitas, Microsoft MVP Mobile Devices
Bluetooth guides: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=449
Performance Centre (Pocket PC reviews):
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?ContentId=2028
Handango discount: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/handango_code.asp


"Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices" <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o ec5wQdTEHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> I think that would just substitute a whole different source of confusion.
> You would still have to figure out what is happening currently in the
> foreign location. That is, I would have no problem knowing when to call my
> friends in London, as they get up around 7AM and go to bed around 11PM.
I'm
> getting ready to go to bed here, it's almost 4AM and I'll be sleeping till
> about Noon (GMT). If you call me at 8AM, I'll be pissed.
>
> Now I just need to figure out what time it is in Germany, or wherever, and
I
> have a clue what those folks are doing. But if 9AM was 9AM everywhere, I
> think it would be tougher to keep track of who is getting up, going to
bed,
> sound asleep or eating lunch.
>
> I go along with this concept if you moved GMT to Colorado :) 
>
> --
> Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
> "Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP]" <ppcsurfr@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:eo29f9DTEHA.3812@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> > Either that or learn to live basing time on GMT... :-)
> >
> > I know it's a concept accpeted by a minority... or a concept taken for
> > granted by so many...
> >
>
> > --
> > Carlo Ma. Guerrero
> > Microsoft MVP, Mobile Devices
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
July 12, 2004 11:45:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

earn an extra income £500 to £2000 per month visit
www.monsterlifestyle.co.uk so scary its true!!!
expansion into Europe July 2004 who do you know in Holland or Ireland please
pass onto somebody who may be able to help thankyou

"Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in
message news:%23wj3zT2SEHA.2780@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> My point being, if you had EDT selected, all appointments entered would
> be made in EDT, but you would have the option to "pulldown" a different
> time zone, retaining the ability to follow appointments such as
> conference calls back in the home timezone when traveling.
>
> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
>
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 12:15:25 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Bambi wrote:
> In my opinion, the ideal would be to have the TimeZone as attribute of the
> appointement. When entering an appointement, you would be able to set the
> TimeZone, instead of just the date/hour (no TZ entered would assume local
> TZ).
> This woul allow the PIM to always display the time of the appointement in
> your local time but showing you the distant time and time zone in the
> information. Something like
> 8:30 (2:30 PM CEDT) : meeting with John

Does anything (even third party) do this?

And what happens when you sync, fly to the other time zone, change your
pocketPC, change your laptop time, resync? Or if you forget to change
one of the two?
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 12:17:43 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Carlo Ma. Guerrero [MVP] wrote:
> No... That does not work as you will end up doing more mental time
> conversions as well...
>

Well, if you set the flight departing time, AND time zone, and then set
the flight arriving time, AND time zone what would be the problem? All
you need is the ability to put in a time zone with every appointment
time (beginning and ending time both).
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 12:19:48 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I agree, both the PocketPC Calender and Outlook need to have the ability
to set time zone as well as time for both the start and end of each
appointment (truely for flights).


Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices wrote:
> I have a feeling that this is one of those things that there are so many
> ways to do it, you are only going to please a minority percentage no matter
> what you do. The majority will of course, be vocal. One thing I keep in
> mind is that it behaves just like desktop Outlook today. I would guess
> there would be some real hesitance to make the PPC and the desktop work
> substantially differently, meaning the desktop version would need to be
> changed as well, if change were in the offing. I'm not sure I see that
> happening. I think we are all just going to have to adopt the work-around
> that works best for us individually.
>
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 12:22:15 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

If you forget to change one, one will be wrong. Syncing isn't going to screw
things up. What you need to remember is that it does not sync the TZ, it
syncs a coordinated time, so it is essentially the exact same internal time
on every device. What is actually displayed, in the time bar, and on the
calendar, is adjusted based on your TZ settings. Of course if you have a
laptop set at one TZ and a PPC set at another, and enter a noon appt on
each, those are stored as two different coordinated times. So it matters
what your TZ is set to when you enter something, or you get a utility that
lets you define the TZ when entering an appt.

There are certainly instances that make the current feature beneficial. I
recently got a i-calender appt e-mailed to me for a telecon that is coming
up. This went to folks all over the world. When I drug it onto Outlook it
automatically adjusted the time to be correct for my TZ, as it did for folks
all over the world. It so happens I won't be home when this telecon happens
and as long as I change the TZ on my PPC when I get to where I'm going, that
telecon appt will shift to the right 'real' time. Works great.

My dislike of the current feature is that scenario, for me, is the
exception.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"What Oil?" <leaksoil@neverdot.net> wrote in message
news:lJI9d.2348$kz3.1188@fed1read02...
> Bambi wrote:
> > In my opinion, the ideal would be to have the TimeZone as attribute of
the
> > appointement. When entering an appointement, you would be able to set
the
> > TimeZone, instead of just the date/hour (no TZ entered would assume
local
> > TZ).
> > This woul allow the PIM to always display the time of the appointement
in
> > your local time but showing you the distant time and time zone in the
> > information. Something like
> > 8:30 (2:30 PM CEDT) : meeting with John
>
> Does anything (even third party) do this?
>
> And what happens when you sync, fly to the other time zone, change your
> pocketPC, change your laptop time, resync? Or if you forget to change
> one of the two?
!