Change notes on section heading.

Thanks, fishmahn. Done.

Um ... what?       A monitor isn't a consumer electronic any more than a USB hard drive is. I can't blame people for being confused.  

They'll get used to it :wink:

All retail computers, and computer peripherals, moved to CE.

Really? That seems very weird (if not flat out wrong) to me. Well, retail computers maybe. But peripherals? That's hardware, not CE. I mean how weird is it to look in the Hardware -> Storage section for an internal drive, and in the CE -> Other Consumer Electronics (I'm guessing?) for external drives? It's all very weird IMHO.

Technically speaking, peripherals are devices dependant upon a PC. They're PC hardware. Sit one down by itself and it's generally useless on its own.

Consumer electronics are independant stand-alone devices. They don't need a PC. In fact, for the most part, you typically use them by themselves without a PC.

So these are two extemely different categories.

You say we'll get to the layout after bugs and features have been added, but yet you change the layout to make it worse? :roll:

The hardware section is HUGE and has too many categories, so there is a need to break things off into other places. One can think of peripherals as components of retail computers too, so they could belong to the same place as retail computers.

"Hardware" section right now is really about things you "tinker with", and does not include "black box" stuff. Printers/CRT's are all black box, and consumer oriented, i.e. you don't have to be a h/w guru (as you have to be with a motherboard).

There are many different ways of looking at categorization.. all could be valid IMHO. There has to be a very good reason to do massive re-categorization at this point.

Doesn't massive user demand count?

Yes, but you have to help me figure it out. Hardware Section already has way too many categories.

Check out a thread in the Structure forum called 'Proposal' - Give me feedback :wink:

So far it has a lot of user support.

I think steve is looking at the number of posts in each section. Look at how many are in Hardware as it is. I agree that I want those to leave CE and be put in Hardware but not if it's going to cripple the forum.

I'm not talking about the CE specifically. I'm personally talking about the entire forum layout.

If you want, post your ideas too. If we don't all add to the discussion we're not going to get very far  

And why does there need to be a subsection on every major manu in the motherboard category? Why does overclocking-cpu have a AMD subcategory and not an Intel one? Why does the main cpu section have no subcategory for AMD or Intel? What about Cyrix, Via, Transmeta?

It seems to me that the hardware section could really stand to be cleaned up.

For example, just have:

Components:
CPU (Move General Homebuilt into here like ToF.)
Cases and PSU
Sound Cards
Networking and Communications (aka modems)
Graphics
Memory
Hard Disks
Optical Drives
Other

Overclocking:
CPU
Graphics
Motherboards
Memory

Peripherals:
Monitors
Printers
Scanners
Cameras
Other

And get rid of all of these dinky little subsections. That'd be sooo much cleaner.

I don't know ... all could be valid? Surely some would be more valid than others...

I would think the notable amount of confusion that it's caused would be a very good reason. :?

The subsections are getting pretty decent traffic, e.g. motherboards by type... people (specially new members) prefer to post in those areas, and they are getting decent replies.

Ok, they can post all they like in the mobo subsection. Good luck in them even getting a reply! 8O

They are getting replies. What I can also do (I am thinking about it) is to have a link that shows a section and all its subsections in one shot.

Take a look at asus http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/Asus-forum-20.h... pretty decent number of replies.

...and Shuttle, Soyo, Supermicro, Tyan, Chaintech, Epox, A-Openm, FIC & Jetway all have no new posts at all

(I've never visited them either, so that either means there is a bug in the orange status lights or noone has posted in 7 days)

Those mentioned don't have new posts, so no need to visit. I visit subforums that have posts (orange light), and they seem to be doing ok.

By your logic the games section is fine then?

No matter, I don't really have a problem with the Mobo subsections (perhaps you make the standard mobo forum include all the subsections)

**ROFL** I've got to agree with Neddy. Maybe newbies post there, but sure as the sun shines, I'll never visit. It's bad enough trying to keep up with major sections.      

Maybe if moderators in the major sections (like mobo) were to move all topics created there that could go into subsections into those subsections, then maybe the system might work out well enough.

But even then, most of the problems that come up are pretty much the same regardless of the mobo manu. So unless you're overclocking or something and need someone highly knowledged with that particular brand's BIOS or something, I really still don't see the point.

The more of these small places there are to create a new thread in, the more likely someone needing help is going to be passed over, since most people only check the major sections.

While that's not entirely a bad idea (and so long as subsections exist, I support it) to me it raises one very important question: What then, is the reason for even having subsections in the first place?

I mean if people start using that link instead of looking into the subsections, then the subsections might as well not exist at all and those posts be made in the major section instead, no?

Also, I'm still confused why some manus get a subsection and some don't.

We have Abit, Albatron, Aopen, Asus, Biostar, Chaintech, DFI, Elitegroup, Epox, FIC, Gigabyte, Jetway, MSI-Microstar, Shuttle, Soyo, Supermicro, and Tyan. That's 17.

We're missing Acorp, Asrock, Foxconn, Intel, Iwill, Mach Speed, Soltek, and PC Chips. That's another 8. And that's still only counting major 3rd-party mobo manufacturers. (Did AMD ever make their own mobos? I know they did their own chipsets, but I'm not sure on the mobos.)

If we want to get technical, major OEM whiteboxes (Compaq, Dell, Gateway, HP, IBM, etc.) are avaialble as well.

And that's assuming that I haven't missed any. It's also not even counting researching into old companies that did Socket7 and the likes, or allowing room for new startups.

Heck, we're not even allowing for exotics like VIA's stuff.

It just seems to me that there's an awful lot missing. Adding what's missing would make a huge expansion of subsections. But not adding what's missing makes it pointless to have any subsections.

And then one must also wonder why for example motherboards gets all of these manu subsections, but RAM, hard disks, optical disks, etc. don't.

That can expand/contract depending on the need. If some of those subforumz don't get too many new posts, we will fold them back into General; conversely if some mobo's get too much action in General and don't have subforumz dedicated to them, we will create subforumz for them.

So as a member of the community, please monitor such things, and as we move forward (but not immediately) we will look at doing that.