Now they are spying on you....

The Bush Administration has been secretly spying on you since 2002.

While many details about the program remain secret, officials familiar with it say the N.S.A. eavesdrops without warrants on up to 500 people in the United States at any given time. The list changes as some names are added and others dropped, so the number monitored in this country may have reached into the thousands since the program began, several officials said.

More Pentagon Spying

And I am watching a documentary on Hitler and his manuscript Mein Kampf and the second chapter.
How he admired the US for their techniques and methods of driving out the natives to near extinction and cordoning off in reservations which he believed them to be an inferior race. Totally thought provoking...

Rich, sometimes you have to put things in perspective. What we have going on in the USA is nothing like they have in the UK. They have cameras EVERYWHERE! How do you think they got footage of the bus/tube bombers so fast?

It's risk vs reward rich.

I agree. This is something that was put over on us under a cloak of national security. Our rights were fought for and we should never submit to any of them being taken away. That would almost be like pissing on the ground at Arlington National Cemetery.

you're paranoid....the only one that's spying on you is me.....nice p.j.'s BTW.....

The only interceptions made where communications made overseas. I still don't understand why they didn't get permission from the secret court but I'm sure we'll find out.

I might not have a problem with any of it if I knew what they were doing with the data they mine.

They allow the same CIA to spy on us that is now being called to the carpet on human rights issues. I must admit though the CIA should have certain liberties when the situation warrants them.

I don't know about nowadays. Used to, you could listen in with just a scanner.

Most mobiles are digital now and use encryption. The problem is, encryption is only used between the phone and the base station. Base to base transmission is still relatively simple to intercept.

First, Congress NEVER approved these wire taps.

Second, Congress had no right to approve said wire taps even if they had.

Third, Mr. Bush has no authority to authorize wire taps of US citizens in the USA.

Fourth, these are US citizens who have neither been accused or convicted of anything.

Fifth, if Mr. Bush thought he needed wire taps on these individuals, there are legal means for getting them.

There is no longer any debate about this spying program targeting US citizens here at home. Mr. Bush has admitted to his complicity publicly. He should now resign his office or face immediate impeachment. Unless of course you believe that the President is above the law and that the government is no longer to be bound by the Constitution. If this stands, the Constitution is completely dead insofar as it's power to restrain the government and ensure our rights a citizens.

Just a few of the concerns voiced by Democrat and Republican Congressmen of the Bush spying scandal taken from various Sunday morning news programs and summarized by the AP:

RC, You know me, and you know I am conservative. I've voted for bush and have largely supported him. However on two occasions, the first being the oil companies ripping us off and the second being this so called patriot act I strongly disagree with him as my president.

Quite frankly, the patriot act itself worried me and now this business of spying on Americans without regard to the American system of checks and balances I consider totally unacceptable.

Because of terrorism we have had to endure some infringements on our liberties but a blatant disregard for our system of government that has worked for over 200 years should not be tolerated.

Lately president Bush's display of arrogance is scaring the heck out of me.

To each his own opinion. * Shrug *

Up early?

Russ, I believe that would be because of the public's 'need to know' factor, eh? I mean, surely it would be a public relations nightmare to take it public like that and, of course, the chance of successfully gleaming the right info from those covert listen-ins would be greatly reduced.

Thats what I would have thought anyway.

I hope my government is doing it. Truly I do.

Your knowlege on this is far superior to mine Russ.

How 'unlikely' is a leak though? Bush is certainly eating shite over it at the moment though, eh?

True, whats the point of law if it does not apply to the government of the day? Not much, I suspect.

If they spied on me they'd just get bored and fall asleep...

I love you bombs...but I don't really like all the rapper references towards women...because when they NEED to be called a bitch or a ho it is not as effective. I only use that when I mean it, not as a generalization. I do not consider it "American vernacular" I consider it mental deficient vernacular...

I'll never forget the Pat Boone white bread version of "Tutti Fruitti" after hearing Little Richard"s version. It was enough to make you vomit...Very few few white folks during my "coming of age" era could hold a candle to the black singers and musicians of the day. The young Elvis was one...no no not the Las Vegas Elvis the one before fame and Tom Parker ruined him...

The blues...love 'em...I still play a little blues with some of the locals around here...me and my ol' harmonica...

To keep the subject on the spying topic: Knowing the way our government is run now adays, how long do you think it would take to get a wiretap evertime they needed one. Way too long. The democrats, the ACLU, and all these other winers are making a big political game out of everything. The spying that is going on isnt on normal, everyday citzens. Its on communications going outside of this country to who knows where. If this spying is able to stop another attack, which it has, then I have no problem with it. We are at war with 'people' that care nothing about me or my country. We all are video taped, recorded, and 'spyed' on everyday: atm cameras, gas station cameras, department store camers, trafic cameras, phone cameras, video cameras, work email, etc...
When are people going to wake up and realize we are not living in the world of pre 9-11. Extraordinary measureas are going to have to be taken. If me losing some of my 'rights', and I use that loosly as I havent, keeps me, my family, and my country safe from these terrorists then so be.

It's all a matter of finding the balance between your security and your freedom. On one extreme we could have a 1982 style nation in which no terrorist acts happen, and on the other you have a totally "free" society that suffers major attacks like Japan suffers earthquakes.

Quite apart from this debate, the problem I see in this instance is that rather than change the law, the administration may have simply gone around (or even broken it), and that can set a dangerous precedent when government acts outside the limitations of the checks and balances in place in order to ensure you go to bed in a democracy and wake up in one.

As I say, the debate on where the line between liberty and security lies is perhaps separate to the one about the executives abilities to ignore the rule of law when it so pleases. There are already mechanisms in place for this in which, for example, a wire tapping can be ordered and then one goes to a judge after the fact, but here even that has been circumvented, so that the operation could perhaps become more of a routine, rubber stamp job.

It's the legal implications that perturb me here, rather than the debate about freedom vs security.

Good, then you won't mind the cameras I have in your bed and bath room!

Oh, it is of national security and of great interest... National Security could not ever be perverted.

Actually, they can set up an 'emergency' wiretap any time they need it. But they have only 36 or 48 hrs after it has been placed to make the request with the secret judge that approves them. Several thousand are approved annually that way, and ever since the wiretap legislation was passed in the '70s only 1 has been refused. Oh that several thousand was before 9/11. Currently there aren't very many made on an annual basis... wonder why? (I don't)

Mike.

Apparently, all it takes is suspician...
**glances suspicious look towards qoop!**