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Switching ON an ATX power supply (when it's not connected ..

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Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 18, 2004 10:02:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

Hi! does anyone here know how you can turn an ATX
power supply ON when it is not connected to the mobo?
I remember reading somewhere that we must touch (short)
the blue and white wire together for a moment.....
And to OFF the ATX supply, we must again short the blue
and white wires for 3 to 5 seconds?
Can anyone confirm?
A perfectly functional motherboard or CPU can be damaged
if the 3V, 5V and 12V lines are wildly off their mark and it is
prudent to check the PSU out of circuit before connecting.

TIA
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 18, 2004 10:02:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:02:34 +0800, Huang <huang_cc@hotpop.com> wrote:

>Hi! does anyone here know how you can turn an ATX
>power supply ON when it is not connected to the mobo?
>I remember reading somewhere that we must touch (short)
>the blue and white wire together for a moment.....
>And to OFF the ATX supply, we must again short the blue
>and white wires for 3 to 5 seconds?
>Can anyone confirm?
>A perfectly functional motherboard or CPU can be damaged
>if the 3V, 5V and 12V lines are wildly off their mark and it is
>prudent to check the PSU out of circuit before connecting.

>TIA

Never heard of it, you put a ' paperclip ' between x & X on the
motherboard plug. I can't be sure of the numbers in my head so I won't
post them.

I'll have a look for you !
BoroLad
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 18, 2004 10:02:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:02:34 +0800, Huang <huang_cc@hotpop.com> wrote:

>Hi! does anyone here know how you can turn an ATX
>power supply ON when it is not connected to the mobo?
>I remember reading somewhere that we must touch (short)
>the blue and white wire together for a moment.....
>And to OFF the ATX supply, we must again short the blue
>and white wires for 3 to 5 seconds?
>Can anyone confirm?
>A perfectly functional motherboard or CPU can be damaged
>if the 3V, 5V and 12V lines are wildly off their mark and it is
>prudent to check the PSU out of circuit before connecting.

>TIA

Yeh it was pin14, but best to check.

http://www.dvhardware.net/modules.php?name=Sections&sop...
http://members.rogers.com/2caaronc/Enermax%20Mod.htm

Pin 14 [ Power-ON wire - make sure it's GREEN ] and the BLACK any
BLACK will do.

BoroLad
Related resources
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 18, 2004 10:02:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

Huang wrote:
> Hi! does anyone here know how you can turn an ATX
> power supply ON when it is not connected to the mobo?
> I remember reading somewhere that we must touch (short)
> the blue and white wire together for a moment.....
> And to OFF the ATX supply, we must again short the blue
> and white wires for 3 to 5 seconds?
> Can anyone confirm?
> A perfectly functional motherboard or CPU can be damaged
> if the 3V, 5V and 12V lines are wildly off their mark and it is
> prudent to check the PSU out of circuit before connecting.


Be very careful to get your orientation correct - you should be able to do
it from the wire colours, but I prefer to check it by the keying (square
pin) and don't forget that the direction you look at the connector (or the
socket) affects this.

http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/power/atxpower.ht...

Short pin 14 to one of the ground pins (I think I did it to 15, or 13). The
PSU will be on whilst the wire is there, when you remove the wire, the PSU
will turn off.

Despite the power switch on the case (to the motherboard) being momentary,
the "PSU on" signal is active low (active when grounded, otherwise it floats
high I guess)

Don't forget that some PSUs will not be able to correctly regulate their
rails unless they are loaded, therefore I suggest you connect a suitable
resistor (suitably high value to sufficiently limit the current to what the
PSU is capable of, and suitably rated for the power it needs to dissipate)
from the rail you wish to check, to ground and measure the voltage across
the resistor.

If any of that does not make sense, don't do it.

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 18, 2004 10:02:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

Huang wrote:

>
> Hi! does anyone here know how you can turn an ATX power supply ON when
> it is not connected to the mobo? I remember reading somewhere that we
> must touch (short) the blue and white wire together for a moment.....
> And to OFF the ATX supply, we must again short the blue and white
> wires for 3 to 5 seconds? Can anyone confirm? A perfectly functional
> motherboard or CPU can be damaged if the 3V, 5V and 12V lines are
> wildly off their mark and it is prudent to check the PSU out of
> circuit before connecting.
>
> TIA

I use one of these:

http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?T1=...
April 18, 2004 10:02:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

most often, a power supply will not come up if it has no load connected.
with a reputable, brand name supply, I have never seen the voltages be off
by any significant amount.

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror <----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 130,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"Huang" <huang_cc@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:nhk4805491e48pss3733mhh7v1pk3ikp3s@4ax.com...
>
> Hi! does anyone here know how you can turn an ATX
> power supply ON when it is not connected to the mobo?
> I remember reading somewhere that we must touch (short)
> the blue and white wire together for a moment.....
> And to OFF the ATX supply, we must again short the blue
> and white wires for 3 to 5 seconds?
> Can anyone confirm?
> A perfectly functional motherboard or CPU can be damaged
> if the 3V, 5V and 12V lines are wildly off their mark and it is
> prudent to check the PSU out of circuit before connecting.
>
> TIA
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 18, 2004 10:02:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

"Huang" <huang_cc@hotpop.com> wrote in message...
> Hi! does anyone here know how you can turn an ATX
> power supply ON when it is not connected to the mobo?

As others have mentioned, pin 14 to ground.

> A perfectly functional motherboard or CPU can be damaged
> if the 3V, 5V and 12V lines are wildly off their mark and it is
> prudent to check the PSU out of circuit before connecting.

Er, not really it ain't, it won't teach you anything. Switched mode power
supply output voltages often appear "wildly off the mark" when there's no
load applied to them, and so you might mistakenly believe the PSU is bust if
you "dry test" it in this way.

Besides, shorting wires to ground when you don't know exactly what you're
doing could easily get you in more trouble than not doing so... ;) 

Good bit of cross-posting BTW...
--


Richard Hopkins
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
(replace .nospam with .com in reply address)

The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com
Get the most out of your digital photos www.dabsxpose.com
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 18, 2004 10:02:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

Huang <huang_cc@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<nhk4805491e48pss3733mhh7v1pk3ikp3s@4ax.com>...
> Hi! does anyone here know how you can turn an ATX
> power supply ON when it is not connected to the mobo?
> I remember reading somewhere that we must touch (short)
> the blue and white wire together for a moment.....
> And to OFF the ATX supply, we must again short the blue
> and white wires for 3 to 5 seconds?
> Can anyone confirm?
> A perfectly functional motherboard or CPU can be damaged
> if the 3V, 5V and 12V lines are wildly off their mark and it is
> prudent to check the PSU out of circuit before connecting.
>
> TIA

You can try to plug in an old hard disk drive to one of the spare
connectors. That might load the PSU enough for it to go into
regulation. I think that they still regulate of the 5V rail.

arnie
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 18, 2004 10:02:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Pin 14 (PS-ON) to Pin 13 (GND)

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:02:34 +0800, Huang <huang_cc@hotpop.com> wrote:

>
>Hi! does anyone here know how you can turn an ATX
>power supply ON when it is not connected to the mobo?
>I remember reading somewhere that we must touch (short)
>the blue and white wire together for a moment.....
>And to OFF the ATX supply, we must again short the blue
>and white wires for 3 to 5 seconds?
>Can anyone confirm?
>A perfectly functional motherboard or CPU can be damaged
>if the 3V, 5V and 12V lines are wildly off their mark and it is
>prudent to check the PSU out of circuit before connecting.
>
>TIA
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 18, 2004 10:02:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

Ben Pope wrote:
> Don't forget that some PSUs will not be able to correctly regulate their
> rails unless they are loaded, therefore I suggest you connect a suitable
> resistor (suitably high value to sufficiently limit the current to what
> the PSU is capable of, and suitably rated for the power it needs to
> dissipate) from the rail you wish to check, to ground and measure the
> voltage across the resistor.

These comments relate to a digital multimeter. An analogue one might have a
low enough resistance to source a suitable current. But nobody uses
analogue voltmeters any more, do they? :-p

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 18, 2004 10:02:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

Irrelevant if wrong pins were shorted together. A power
supply must even have all output voltages shorted together and
still not be damaged. This demanded by an Intel spec and was
defacto standard 30 years ago.

Short green wire to black wire.

Meantime, some power supplies will power up with no load.
Other will not. Responsible power supply manufacturers
provide this information with a long list of essential
specifications. Whether ATX power supply can power up without
load and be stable is a unique function of that design. Some
do. Some don't.

If power supply voltages get so far off spec as to damage
computer, then why buy a supply so cheap as to not even
include the defacto standard function called Overvoltge
protection (OVP)? No power supply, properly designed, can
damage the computer. Power supplies must - as even demanded
by Intel specs - include a circuit that makes overvoltage
impossible. A power supply that damages computer is due to a
human failure. Human who buys a supply without numerical
electrical specs gets the damage he deserves.

Connect supply to computer and monitor voltages with a 3.5
digit multimeter. However if power supply is not provided
with a long list of specifications, then they probably don't
want you to know the so many missing functions so it could be
sold for less than $60. Supply must have OVP. If it does
not, the manufacturer will also forget to provide
specifications claiming this and other essential functions
exist.

borolad@myowseintheboro.org wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:02:34 +0800, Huang <huang_cc@hotpop.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi! does anyone here know how you can turn an ATX
>> power supply ON when it is not connected to the mobo?
>> I remember reading somewhere that we must touch (short)
>> the blue and white wire together for a moment.....
>> And to OFF the ATX supply, we must again short the blue
>> and white wires for 3 to 5 seconds?
>> Can anyone confirm?
>> A perfectly functional motherboard or CPU can be damaged
>> if the 3V, 5V and 12V lines are wildly off their mark and it is
>> prudent to check the PSU out of circuit before connecting.
>
> >TIA
>
> Yeh it was pin14, but best to check.
>
> http://www.dvhardware.net/modules.php?name=Sections&sop...
> http://members.rogers.com/2caaronc/Enermax%20Mod.htm
>
> Pin 14 [ Power-ON wire - make sure it's GREEN ] and the BLACK any
> BLACK will do.
>
> BoroLad
April 18, 2004 10:02:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

In article <Xns94CF5CF0B8BEExafdt@216.168.3.44>, xeno@removethis.1st.net wrote:

> Huang wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi! does anyone here know how you can turn an ATX power supply ON when
> > it is not connected to the mobo? I remember reading somewhere that we
> > must touch (short) the blue and white wire together for a moment.....
> > And to OFF the ATX supply, we must again short the blue and white
> > wires for 3 to 5 seconds? Can anyone confirm? A perfectly functional
> > motherboard or CPU can be damaged if the 3V, 5V and 12V lines are
> > wildly off their mark and it is prudent to check the PSU out of
> > circuit before connecting.
> >
> > TIA
>
> I use one of these:
>
> http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?T1=...

If you like glowing LEDs, try one of these :-)

http://www.dansdata.com/quickshot018.htm

At least the circuit card would give you a base to connect more
load resistors if you want.

Soldering a fan to the +12V on the circuit board will also give
you a supply of cooling air to blow over the resistors. I
have some load resistors at home for testing ATX supplies and
they get pretty hot - an 80mm fan keeps them from frying. You
have to work out the ohms needed and power dissipation required
for each load you construct.

Paul
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 18, 2004 10:02:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

On 4/18/2004 6:08 AM Jim Schuster brightened our day with:

>Huang wrote:
>
>
>
>>Hi! does anyone here know how you can turn an ATX power supply ON when
>>it is not connected to the mobo? I remember reading somewhere that we
>>must touch (short) the blue and white wire together for a moment.....
>>And to OFF the ATX supply, we must again short the blue and white
>>wires for 3 to 5 seconds? Can anyone confirm? A perfectly functional
>>motherboard or CPU can be damaged if the 3V, 5V and 12V lines are
>>wildly off their mark and it is prudent to check the PSU out of
>>circuit before connecting.
>>
>>TIA
>>
>>
>
>I use one of these:
>
>http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?T1=...
>
>
You use that to get the second power supply for your GeForce 6800 Ultra
running I guess.

--
"Cocaine's a hell of a drug" - Rick James

Steve [Inglo]
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 19, 2004 12:54:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

The safest way to test the power supply that I've found is to buy an Antec
power supply tester. You can then test the power supply without needing to
connect to a motherboard. Maplins have them.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 19, 2004 12:54:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

All of which is still unnecessary if one first and simply
verifies the power supply even claims to have functions found
in 30 year old power supplies. The safest way to test a power
supply is to first verify it has standard and necessary
functions. $20 and $40 power supplies typically do not which
means inferior power supply still threatens computer - even if
Antec power supply tester says it is OK.

IOW the Antec power supply tester is necessary because power
supply is missing essential and required functions.

Edward J Martin wrote:
> The safest way to test the power supply that I've found is to buy
> an Antec power supply tester. You can then test the power supply
> without needing to connect to a motherboard. Maplins have them.
April 19, 2004 2:49:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 20:54:07 +0100, "Edward J Martin"
<edwardjmartin@hotmail.com> wrote:

>The safest way to test the power supply that I've found is to buy an Antec
>power supply tester. You can then test the power supply without needing to
>connect to a motherboard. Maplins have them.
>

This one is easy!

Simply short the green wire on the power supply connector (there's only 1 green)
to any black wire, it will then power up without having to be connected to the
board.

HTH

John
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 19, 2004 2:13:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

What? A good analogue voltmeter should have high internal
resistance, comparable to a digital voltmeter! If your
0-20V DC voltmeter has sub-megaohm internal resistance,
don't use it! Or, your measured voltage is not the
potential difference without the voltmeter.

My 2 cents.
Stephen Wong @ Hong Kong

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004, Ben Pope wrote:

> Ben Pope wrote:
> > Don't forget that some PSUs will not be able to correctly regulate their
> > rails unless they are loaded, therefore I suggest you connect a suitable
> > resistor (suitably high value to sufficiently limit the current to what
> > the PSU is capable of, and suitably rated for the power it needs to
> > dissipate) from the rail you wish to check, to ground and measure the
> > voltage across the resistor.
>
> These comments relate to a digital multimeter. An analogue one might have a
> low enough resistance to source a suitable current. But nobody uses
> analogue voltmeters any more, do they? :-p
>
> Ben
> --
> A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
> Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
> I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 19, 2004 4:27:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:09:57 +0100, "Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Huang wrote:
>> Hi! does anyone here know how you can turn an ATX
>> power supply ON when it is not connected to the mobo?
>> I remember reading somewhere that we must touch (short)
>> the blue and white wire together for a moment.....
>> And to OFF the ATX supply, we must again short the blue
>> and white wires for 3 to 5 seconds?
>> Can anyone confirm?
>> A perfectly functional motherboard or CPU can be damaged
>> if the 3V, 5V and 12V lines are wildly off their mark and it is
>> prudent to check the PSU out of circuit before connecting.
>
>
>Be very careful to get your orientation correct - you should be able to do
>it from the wire colours, but I prefer to check it by the keying (square
>pin) and don't forget that the direction you look at the connector (or the
>socket) affects this.
>
>http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/power/atxpower.ht...
>
>Short pin 14 to one of the ground pins (I think I did it to 15, or 13). The
>PSU will be on whilst the wire is there, when you remove the wire, the PSU
>will turn off.
>
>Despite the power switch on the case (to the motherboard) being momentary,
>the "PSU on" signal is active low (active when grounded, otherwise it floats
>high I guess)
>
>Don't forget that some PSUs will not be able to correctly regulate their
>rails unless they are loaded, therefore I suggest you connect a suitable
>resistor (suitably high value to sufficiently limit the current to what the
>PSU is capable of, and suitably rated for the power it needs to dissipate)
>from the rail you wish to check, to ground and measure the voltage across
>the resistor.
>
>If any of that does not make sense, don't do it.
>
>Ben



Car tail/stop light is very good as a load..
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 21, 2004 1:55:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

"Stephen SM WONG" <wongsm@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:p ine.LNX.4.58.0404191010290.4923@localhost.localdomain...
> What? A good analogue voltmeter should have high internal
> resistance, comparable to a digital voltmeter! If your
> 0-20V DC voltmeter has sub-megaohm internal resistance,
> don't use it! Or, your measured voltage is not the
> potential difference without the voltmeter.
>
> My 2 cents.
> Stephen Wong @ Hong Kong

Stephen:
Any analog (note the spelling; please!) voltmeter should work fine (if known
good accuracy) for testing a low-impedance source like a power supply. If
anything; it's probably better !!

"yah hafta know your test equipment" ; as well as the circuit your are
testing.

I'm an old fart who's had a voltmeter in my hands since 1959.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 21, 2004 2:08:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

"Edward J Martin" <edwardjmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c5umd0$5v908$1@ID-97319.news.uni-berlin.de...
> The safest way to test the power supply that I've found is to buy an Antec
> power supply tester. You can then test the power supply without needing to
> connect to a motherboard. Maplins have them.

I've got one; and it works. There's one small problem; the loads aren't
big enough to "really prove out" a PS.

Maplins >> UK/EU>> 220~240V "mains" ; I'm a Yank with 110~120V . You can
use the Antec "loadtester" here and it will probably "show good" even if the
damned [110-220] switch is in the 220 position with 110 mains.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 21, 2004 9:57:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

"Keith Christensen" <radiopro@kendra.com> wrote in message news:<c64uq501ig6@enews4.newsguy.com>...
> "Stephen SM WONG" <wongsm@netvigator.com> wrote in message
> news:p ine.LNX.4.58.0404191010290.4923@localhost.localdomain...
> > What? A good analogue voltmeter should have high internal
> > resistance, comparable to a digital voltmeter! If your
> > 0-20V DC voltmeter has sub-megaohm internal resistance,
> > don't use it! Or, your measured voltage is not the
> > potential difference without the voltmeter.
> >
> > My 2 cents.
> > Stephen Wong @ Hong Kong
>
> Stephen:
> Any analog (note the spelling; please!) voltmeter should work fine (if known
> good accuracy) for testing a low-impedance source like a power supply. If
> anything; it's probably better !!
>
> "yah hafta know your test equipment" ; as well as the circuit your are
> testing.
>
> I'm an old fart who's had a voltmeter in my hands since 1959.
But apparently not been round long enough to learn that many words are
spelt differently in different parts of the world. Actually
"analogue" is more correct. "analog" is the lazy US spelling. And
".. the circuit your are .." is incorrect.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 21, 2004 1:03:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.windows98,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

Keith Christensen wrote:
> "Stephen SM WONG" <wongsm@netvigator.com> wrote in message
> news:p ine.LNX.4.58.0404191010290.4923@localhost.localdomain...
>> What? A good analogue voltmeter
>
> Stephen:
> Any analog (note the spelling; please!) voltmeter

The spelling depends on your location.

I'm from the UK, it's "analogue", but I would not be arrogant enough to tell
you your spelling was wrong.

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
April 21, 2004 5:28:00 PM

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"Bill D" <bd_ex_va@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:830c58d.0404210457.2a6f60b4@posting.google.com...
> But apparently not been round long enough to learn that many words are
> spelt differently in different parts of the world. Actually
> "analogue" is more correct.

It's only more correct if that's the correct way it's spelt (or spelled, if
you prefer) in your part of the world.

> "analog" is the lazy US spelling.

It's not lazy, it's phonetic.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 21, 2004 7:26:46 PM

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On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:28:00 +0000 (UTC), "XMan" <x@man.com> wrote:

>"Bill D" <bd_ex_va@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:830c58d.0404210457.2a6f60b4@posting.google.com...
>> But apparently not been round long enough to learn that many words are
>> spelt differently in different parts of the world. Actually
>> "analogue" is more correct.
>
>It's only more correct if that's the correct way it's spelt (or spelled, if
>you prefer) in your part of the world.
>
>> "analog" is the lazy US spelling.
>
>It's not lazy, it's phonetic.
>
>
Given the origin of the word from French and ancient Greek, "analogue"
is more correct. But usage would accept either. It would depend on
who is marking the spelling test - a UK teacher or a US teacher.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 21, 2004 10:51:41 PM

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On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:03:49 +0100, "Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com>
waffled on about something:

>Keith Christensen wrote:
>> "Stephen SM WONG" <wongsm@netvigator.com> wrote in message
>> news:p ine.LNX.4.58.0404191010290.4923@localhost.localdomain...
>>> What? A good analogue voltmeter
>>
>> Stephen:
>> Any analog (note the spelling; please!) voltmeter
>
>The spelling depends on your location.
>
>I'm from the UK, it's "analogue", but I would not be arrogant enough to tell
>you your spelling was wrong.

Okay, okay, chill out guys or this is going to start into one of those
arguments... (I'm English by the way).

For those that want to have the argument anyway, he's some ammo.

USA - Invented the internet
UK - Tim Berners Lee invented the web
UK - Invented the computer, mechanical and electronic versions

And before anyone starts digging up history, yes the Americans where
very helpful in the 1940's, although they did take a bit too long to
come and help - It started in 1939 you know guys! And cheers for the
mustang, nice plane, pity we had to show you how to make a good engine
to make it useful. :-p

Okay, that's fanned the flames a bit... Hehehehe...

/me runs away singing "You say potato... and some of your politicians
say potatoe..." *snigger*

D0d6y.
--
MUSHROOMS ARE THE OPIATE OF THE MOOSES
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 3:46:55 AM

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Boardpipe wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:33:56 GMT, SmAfDiBoY wrote:
>
>> that is truly all that matters.....
>
> ... matters to whom?

You get a star for the correct usage of "whom".

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 8:07:51 AM

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On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:46:55 +0100, Ben Pope wrote:

> Boardpipe wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:33:56 GMT, SmAfDiBoY wrote:
>>
>>> that is truly all that matters.....
>>
>> ... matters to whom?
>
> You get a star for the correct usage of "whom".
>
> Ben

;) 
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 3:01:15 PM

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Oh pals, as English is not my first language, I won't mind
too much to be blamed on poor spelling! In order to learn
something, so, I go to "dictionary.yahoo.com" and search for
"analog" and "analogue". I'm sure Yahoo's dictionary is
nothing as prestige as Oxford's, Longman's or Webster's, but
anyway, "analog" and "analogue" are two forms of the same
word.

Well, I did make a big mistake in my article, and it's more
technical. It's about the resistance of an analog
voltmeter. I'd digged out my old and reliable Sanwa
YX-360TR multimeter (an analog one), and the DC50V range has
a resistance of 20kohm. But common digital multimeter (like
a Sanwa PM10) has DCV resistance of megaohms. So, I was
wrong, as long as the voltmeter has a much higher resistance
compare with the internal resistance of the power source,
the voltmeter can be used. In modern days PC power supply,
the internal resistance should be very low, say, < 1 ohm, a
20kohm (analog) voltmeter is good enough to measure the
potential difference. Okay, enough technical stuff, go back
to party!

Stephen Wong @ Hong Kong

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Dodgy wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 09:03:49 +0100, "Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com>
> waffled on about something:
>
> >Keith Christensen wrote:
> >> "Stephen SM WONG" <wongsm@netvigator.com> wrote in message
> >> news:p ine.LNX.4.58.0404191010290.4923@localhost.localdomain...
> >>> What? A good analogue voltmeter
> >>
> >> Stephen:
> >> Any analog (note the spelling; please!) voltmeter
> >
> >The spelling depends on your location.
> >
> >I'm from the UK, it's "analogue", but I would not be arrogant enough to tell
> >you your spelling was wrong.
>
> Okay, okay, chill out guys or this is going to start into one of those
> arguments... (I'm English by the way).
>
> For those that want to have the argument anyway, he's some ammo.
>
> USA - Invented the internet
> UK - Tim Berners Lee invented the web
> UK - Invented the computer, mechanical and electronic versions
>
> And before anyone starts digging up history, yes the Americans where
> very helpful in the 1940's, although they did take a bit too long to
> come and help - It started in 1939 you know guys! And cheers for the
> mustang, nice plane, pity we had to show you how to make a good engine
> to make it useful. :-p
>
> Okay, that's fanned the flames a bit... Hehehehe...
>
> /me runs away singing "You say potato... and some of your politicians
> say potatoe..." *snigger*
>
> D0d6y.
> --
> MUSHROOMS ARE THE OPIATE OF THE MOOSES
>
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 3:01:16 PM

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Stephen SM WONG wrote:
> Oh pals, as English is not my first language, I won't mind
> too much to be blamed on poor spelling! In order to learn
> something, so, I go to "dictionary.yahoo.com" and search for
> "analog" and "analogue". I'm sure Yahoo's dictionary is
> nothing as prestige as Oxford's, Longman's or Webster's, but
> anyway, "analog" and "analogue" are two forms of the same
> word.

It's long been said that the United States and the United Kingdom
are separated by a common language. You're doing fine with both.
>
> Well, I did make a big mistake in my article, and it's more
> technical. It's about the resistance of an analog
> voltmeter. I'd digged out my old and reliable Sanwa
> YX-360TR multimeter (an analog one), and the DC50V range has
> a resistance of 20kohm. But common digital multimeter (like
> a Sanwa PM10) has DCV resistance of megaohms. So, I was
> wrong, as long as the voltmeter has a much higher resistance
> compare with the internal resistance of the power source,
> the voltmeter can be used. In modern days PC power supply,
> the internal resistance should be very low, say, < 1 ohm, a
> 20kohm (analog) voltmeter is good enough to measure the
> potential difference. Okay, enough technical stuff, go back
> to party!

One small correction. I'd be willing to bet that your analog
meter has a resistance of 20kohm per volt. This means that it uses
a 50 microamp meter movement. It would take 1 megohm in series for
this to read full scale on 50 V, hence its input resistance would
be ~1 megohm when used on the 50 V scale. This is 20kohm per volt.
My digital meter has a resistance of 10 megohms on any DC scale.

Your conclusion that either is OK to use to measure PSU voltages
is correct.

Virg Wall
--

It is vain to do with more
what can be done with fewer.
William of Occam.
April 22, 2004 3:01:16 PM

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In article <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404221042080.10086@localhost.localdomain>,
Stephen SM WONG <wongsm@netvigator.com> wrote:

> Oh pals, as English is not my first language, I won't mind
> too much to be blamed on poor spelling! In order to learn
> something, so, I go to "dictionary.yahoo.com" and search for
> "analog" and "analogue". I'm sure Yahoo's dictionary is
> nothing as prestige as Oxford's, Longman's or Webster's, but
> anyway, "analog" and "analogue" are two forms of the same
> word.
>
> Well, I did make a big mistake in my article, and it's more
> technical. It's about the resistance of an analog
> voltmeter. I'd digged out my old and reliable Sanwa
> YX-360TR multimeter (an analog one), and the DC50V range has
> a resistance of 20kohm. But common digital multimeter (like
> a Sanwa PM10) has DCV resistance of megaohms. So, I was
> wrong, as long as the voltmeter has a much higher resistance
> compare with the internal resistance of the power source,
> the voltmeter can be used. In modern days PC power supply,
> the internal resistance should be very low, say, < 1 ohm, a
> 20kohm (analog) voltmeter is good enough to measure the
> potential difference. Okay, enough technical stuff, go back
> to party!
>
> Stephen Wong @ Hong Kong
>

That brings back memories for me. When I was a kid, I couldn't
afford a real multimeter, and instead I bought a surplus
bare meter movement (just the part with the analog needle on
it).

The meter movement is actually a current measuring device,
and the smaller the current needed to drive it to full scale,
the more sensitive it is. Before there were "buffered"
analog or "buffered" digital meters, all you had in a meter
was a resistor to set the scale and the meter movement.
This is what I used as my voltmeter...
___
+ / \ -
<-------- R = V_fullscale ---------| |------>
----------- \___/
I_fullscale

So, some example values. If the meter movement needed 50
microamps to cause the needle to go to its max reading,
this is termed a sensitivity of 20Kohms/volt. To make a
meter that reads 1V full scale, you would stick R=20K
as the series resistor. If you wanted the meter instead
to be a 50V full scale meter, then R=1Megohm would be the
choice to make. A handful of precision resistors and
you are all set.

The point of this story, is to point out that the load
from that kind of meter actually changes depending on
what scale the meter is set to. My meter was terrible
for measuring small voltages.

With analog and digital meters today, they have a
buffer stage on the input, so the characteristics
aren't quite the same. Much less current is needed on
the input, to make the voltmeter work, and you don't have
to worry about the loading like you used to with the
simple minded design above. But my meter didn't need
any batteries to make it work.

Paul
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 6:40:36 PM

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Oh, that proves my technical knowledge is as poor as my
English spelling! Thank you for point out my mistakes!

Well, I'm glad to participate in these newsgroups, you guys
ensure me that there still exist some people who knows
electronics (and circuit theory). One of my teachers in
college tried to convince me to stop playing with
electronics (analog and digital) but concentrate on
programming. That happened some ten years ago. Most
youngsters today don't make small projects, be it an audio
amplifier, or a digital quiz machine. That's what I did
when I was young.

Try to do some tricks in analog world gives me as much fun
as to write a decent program / algorithm. Much better than
what I have to do in ERP/HRMS/Web to earn a living now.
Those stupid programs made me remember grandma Grace Hopper!

Okay, enough OT, back to Asus/Gigabyte/MSI reality now. I
wonder how come an one cm square CPU die can consume 100W
power, that means tens of ampere (if voltage is 1.5V +/-
0.2V). That must be crazy. My good old days' 2N3055/MJ2955
cannot take so much power, but enough to make me deaf
through a pair of speakers. And my school teachers told me
that up to a few hunder megahertz, there's no need to use a
conductor, just a pair of close enough wires will let
signals jump across. Well, how come the microwave range GHz
running processor can still work accurately, but not act
like a mesh antenna? And IBM is so proud of her Copper
Interconnect. Wouldn't it be better to be called Air
Interconnect?

Stephen Wong @ Hong Kong


On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Paul wrote:

> In article <Pine.LNX.4.58.0404221042080.10086@localhost.localdomain>,
> Stephen SM WONG <wongsm@netvigator.com> wrote:
>
> > Oh pals, as English is not my first language, I won't mind
> > too much to be blamed on poor spelling! In order to learn
> > something, so, I go to "dictionary.yahoo.com" and search for
> > "analog" and "analogue". I'm sure Yahoo's dictionary is
> > nothing as prestige as Oxford's, Longman's or Webster's, but
> > anyway, "analog" and "analogue" are two forms of the same
> > word.
> >
> > Well, I did make a big mistake in my article, and it's more
> > technical. It's about the resistance of an analog
> > voltmeter. I'd digged out my old and reliable Sanwa
> > YX-360TR multimeter (an analog one), and the DC50V range has
> > a resistance of 20kohm. But common digital multimeter (like
> > a Sanwa PM10) has DCV resistance of megaohms. So, I was
> > wrong, as long as the voltmeter has a much higher resistance
> > compare with the internal resistance of the power source,
> > the voltmeter can be used. In modern days PC power supply,
> > the internal resistance should be very low, say, < 1 ohm, a
> > 20kohm (analog) voltmeter is good enough to measure the
> > potential difference. Okay, enough technical stuff, go back
> > to party!
> >
> > Stephen Wong @ Hong Kong
> >
>
> That brings back memories for me. When I was a kid, I couldn't
> afford a real multimeter, and instead I bought a surplus
> bare meter movement (just the part with the analog needle on
> it).
>
> The meter movement is actually a current measuring device,
> and the smaller the current needed to drive it to full scale,
> the more sensitive it is. Before there were "buffered"
> analog or "buffered" digital meters, all you had in a meter
> was a resistor to set the scale and the meter movement.
> This is what I used as my voltmeter...
> ___
> + / \ -
> <-------- R = V_fullscale ---------| |------>
> ----------- \___/
> I_fullscale
>
> So, some example values. If the meter movement needed 50
> microamps to cause the needle to go to its max reading,
> this is termed a sensitivity of 20Kohms/volt. To make a
> meter that reads 1V full scale, you would stick R=20K
> as the series resistor. If you wanted the meter instead
> to be a 50V full scale meter, then R=1Megohm would be the
> choice to make. A handful of precision resistors and
> you are all set.
>
> The point of this story, is to point out that the load
> from that kind of meter actually changes depending on
> what scale the meter is set to. My meter was terrible
> for measuring small voltages.
>
> With analog and digital meters today, they have a
> buffer stage on the input, so the characteristics
> aren't quite the same. Much less current is needed on
> the input, to make the voltmeter work, and you don't have
> to worry about the loading like you used to with the
> simple minded design above. But my meter didn't need
> any batteries to make it work.
>
> Paul
>
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
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April 23, 2004 2:30:23 AM

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Hi Stephen

> Well, I did make a big mistake in my article, and it's more
> technical. It's about the resistance of an analog
> voltmeter. I'd digged out my old and reliable Sanwa
> YX-360TR multimeter (an analog one), and the DC50V range has
> a resistance of 20kohm.

You'll find that's 20K Ohm per Volt which would give a total resistance of
1,000,000 (1 MegOhm)

--

Regards, Steve S.
!