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DDR4 Memory Prototypes Demostrated at ISSCC

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March 1, 2012 12:12:30 PM

Lets hope that DDR4 will be supported by Haswell and LGA1150.
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-15
March 1, 2012 12:13:51 PM

If the old stuff holds out, seems like I just might wait. Supposed to get a new laptop from cyberpower today for the DJ business[for a great price].
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-9
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a b } Memory
March 1, 2012 12:14:09 PM

p.e.g. will hugely benefit from lower voltage, higher bw ddr4. biggest boost will be in mobile pcs.
i guess haswell-successor and amd piledriver's successors might support ddr4.
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12
March 1, 2012 12:17:07 PM

So we're to expect DDR4 between 2-3 years? Please, if you're holding out for DDR4, do yourself a favor and build the machine now. You'll be building another machine 2-4 years from now anyhow, if you're reading Tom's.
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28
March 1, 2012 12:17:27 PM

I have yet to make the jump to DDR3. I really need to upgrade :/ 
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27
March 1, 2012 12:18:11 PM

I was hopeing for the push of XDR
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-5
March 1, 2012 12:19:13 PM

ive just built my PC this year, seems like my next will be in 2015 after ddr4 is going more mainstream
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15
March 1, 2012 12:23:10 PM

"are you going to make the jump to DDR4 or wait until it becomes mainstream much like many users did with the switch from DDR2 to DDR3?"

Well, it's pretty much up to the price TBH... Unless they prove to be a major performance booster, I'd say most people can wait. Maybe AMD's APUs might/should speed up their adoption.

Cheers!
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18
March 1, 2012 12:24:31 PM

Fully matured APU's in 2014 + ddr4, I smell something beautiful.
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21
March 1, 2012 12:30:40 PM

I will wait, my PC's I just built them just about a year ago...
I know that I will still upgrade them both at some point with both more RAM and SSD's,
and that should be enough for them for another 4-5 years.

By then DDR4 will be mainstream anyway, and prices would have come down from their initial price.

The only question is: How much DDR4 RAM to buy when the time is right?
Like I mentioned, I will upgrade my ram, on my main PC it will go from 4GB (what it has now) to 16GB
(my motherboard limit) since I have always at least double the amount of RAM on each PC...

Then I can safely guess that I will "need" or get a minimum of 32GB but expandable to 64GB or 128GB.
Then again the motherboards that will be compatible with this memory will also include other features... and we need to know more about them.

Anyways, this are exciting news indeed.
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5
March 1, 2012 12:37:08 PM

they quote a lot of figures while saying nothing about expected latency . keep in mind ddr3 was slow to adopt for several reasons

1. many peopel had jsut shelled out money of ddr2 based systems before ddr3 was annouced or available .

2. DRR3 did and still does cost drastically more than ddr 2

3. ddr3 has drastically higher latency compared to ddr 2 , if you take a lower speed ddr 3 module and match it to the same speed ddr2 the ddr 2 will perform better because it has lower latency


number 3 being the Biggest reasons budget minded enthusiast were not enthusiastic about ddr3.

we need latency figures along side the speed figures .
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-7
March 1, 2012 12:41:44 PM

john_4
drwho1 Then I can safely guess that I will "need" or get a minimum of 32GB but expandable to 64GB or 128GB.Not so sure about that. Windows 8 is to have lower overhead than 7 does. Then you have all the the tools out there happy playing Farmvile or some other lame game on their phones, then you have the kiddie consoles.



"farmville" or any other "make believe I"m a game" has not infested my computer.

As for windows 8... same as "farmville" ... or vista, windows Me...

Plus we all know that the "minimum requirements" are never the optimal specs.
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1
March 1, 2012 12:43:14 PM

bawchicawawaFully matured APU's in 2014 + ddr4, I smell something beautiful.



i wouldnt hold my breath , at most i expect matured apu's to provide mid end performance in gaming task at most , current apu's only throw up entry level power and the cpu power has been less than entry level really because amd is using weak cores to accomadate the gpu being higher end.

though the thought of a single chip runing xbox 720 (or what ever it will be called ) level graphics at 60 fps is a sweet idea , i just don't see it happening atleast not cheaply.

at most i'd expect xbox 360 level graphics with 4x AA running 60 fps.
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-5
March 1, 2012 12:45:03 PM

I still have a Q6600 + 8GB DDR2, it's working great and when I'll be ready to upgrade my PC I'll see if DDR4 is available. But for now I think I can wait for DDR4. My current rig do the job and I'm low on $$$ so the next PC will have to wait a few years.
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9
March 1, 2012 12:49:11 PM

ddr4 i just got ddr3! in my new build!!
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1
March 1, 2012 12:56:21 PM

supallSo we're to expect DDR4 between 2-3 years? Please, if you're holding out for DDR4, do yourself a favor and build the machine now. You'll be building another machine 2-4 years from now anyhow, if you're reading Tom's.


lol, i have a quad core, granted its on ddr2, but its still a quad core, it can handle damn near everything i throw at it, so yea, why build a new system now, even if its a bit over 2 years old,

by the time ddr4 hits the 16gb for 80$ range id defiantly consider a new pc possible.
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3
March 1, 2012 12:58:39 PM

I think one of the problems causing AMD's CPUs and APUs to be slower than Intel's is memory bandwidth. If you look at some of the recent articles, you can see that AMD's bandwidth tends to be lower for same-class chips. Furthermore, Intel appears to be less impacted by slower RAM either because of their prefetch technology or cache size.

If AMD can take advantage of the throughput benefits of DDR4, this could help level the playing fields a bit.
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3
March 1, 2012 1:01:40 PM

demonhorde665they quote a lot of figures while saying nothing about expected latency . keep in mind ddr3 was slow to adopt for several reasons 1. many peopel had jsut shelled out money of ddr2 based systems before ddr3 was annouced or available . 2. DRR3 did and still does cost drastically more than ddr 23. ddr3 has drastically higher latency compared to ddr 2 , if you take a lower speed ddr 3 module and match it to the same speed ddr2 the ddr 2 will perform better because it has lower latency number 3 being the Biggest reasons budget minded enthusiast were not enthusiastic about ddr3. we need latency figures along side the speed figures .


16gb ddr2 would cost me 2-400$
16gb ddr3 would cost me 80 at most

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9
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 1, 2012 1:03:13 PM

No way in hell Haswell supports this. They will start volumne production at the end of the year of Haswell. That means DDR4 would have to have been ready by LAST year. Remember, the memory controller is in the CPU die now. I don't know what is after Haswell, but it is likely that Intel has already designed that one as well. I doubt it has been taped out yet so there is still time to put DDR4 on it since that chip is at 14nm and likely won't be taped out until some time in 2013 or late 2012. DDR4 will have to be ready to roll by the beginning of next year for Intel to put it in their 2014 products 14nm products.
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1
Anonymous
a b } Memory
March 1, 2012 1:06:23 PM

Whatever benefits AMD would get from DDR4 Intel would get also so nothing changes on the bandwidth front. Not sure why someone would think this only helps AMD. Bandwidth isn't the only thing slowing down AMD CPUs by the way. In fact, it is probably last on their list of things to fix as it has the least amount of impact. Intel's SandyBridge-E has twice the bandwidth of the regular i7 2600/2700, yet the 2600/2700 beats it on several benchmarks. Only specific apps will benefit from the increased bandwidth.
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1
March 1, 2012 1:16:49 PM

Why DDR4 instead of DDR5. DDR5 has been produced for years for video cards. Video cards were first to use DDR3 then computer systems followed in their footsteps. If video card companies saw no used for DDR4 then why is it being looked at it at all. I am confused a the thought process here.
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-10
March 1, 2012 1:25:00 PM

computerfarmerWhy DDR4 instead of DDR5. DDR5 has been produced for years for video cards. Video cards were first to use DDR3 then computer systems followed in their footsteps. If video card companies saw no used for DDR4 then why is it being looked at it at all. I am confused a the thought process here.


you made a good observation.
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-10
March 1, 2012 1:38:48 PM

Will I upgrade immediately? no. Why? A few reasons.

1. would have to upgrade my cpu and motherboard (I have a socket 1366) as well which ups the cost of getting new ram to several hundred dollars.

2. It will be very expensive to start with

and

3. Till I see any benchmarks of ddr4 systems vs ddr3 systems in game being a huge performance increase Im not shelling out the cash for new mobo/cpu/ram when I could just buy a new video card.
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2
March 1, 2012 1:40:08 PM

SAPMAN2Whatever benefits AMD would get from DDR4 Intel would get also so nothing changes on the bandwidth front. Not sure why someone would think this only helps AMD. Bandwidth isn't the only thing slowing down AMD CPUs by the way. In fact, it is probably last on their list of things to fix as it has the least amount of impact. Intel's SandyBridge-E has twice the bandwidth of the regular i7 2600/2700, yet the 2600/2700 beats it on several benchmarks. Only specific apps will benefit from the increased bandwidth.


This is false. Not all architectures scale equally with increased memory bandwidth. There seem to be quite a few test that say Bulldozer (which has largely been a disappointment) is one said architecture.

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-1
March 1, 2012 1:48:29 PM

Don't be confused, "DDR5" is just a short name for GDDR5 it is still based on the DDR3 SDRAM architecture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDDR5

DDR4 SDRAM new and it is still under development.

Since memory controller is already incorporated in the processor, guess who will implement it first, AMD or INTEL...
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3
a b } Memory
March 1, 2012 1:50:21 PM

computerfarmerWhy DDR4 instead of DDR5. DDR5 has been produced for years for video cards. Video cards were first to use DDR3 then computer systems followed in their footsteps. If video card companies saw no used for DDR4 then why is it being looked at it at all. I am confused a the thought process here.

That's not true. Video cards use GDDR 5, which IIRC was a development of DDR3. DDR5 doesn't exist yet. Also, the DDR4 you refer to was actually GDDR4, not the DDR4 we are talking about.
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3
March 1, 2012 2:04:31 PM

computerfarmerWhy DDR4 instead of DDR5. DDR5 has been produced for years for video cards. Video cards were first to use DDR3 then computer systems followed in their footsteps. If video card companies saw no used for DDR4 then why is it being looked at it at all. I am confused a the thought process here.


video cards been using gddr5, not ddr5, gddr5 is basicly the same as ddr4. cant remember why the name difference.
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-6
March 1, 2012 2:07:20 PM

Oh boy...while I love advancements in technology, the scattered timeline of these advancements must drive a builder nuts sometimes.
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7
March 1, 2012 2:14:40 PM

My current budget has prevented me from doing a serious rebuild for 3 years now, so I'm guessing I'll wait.
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1
March 1, 2012 2:27:22 PM

sorry guys... my mistake
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2
March 1, 2012 2:44:30 PM

"DDR4 will not be pin compatible with DDR3" of course.. of course...
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6
March 1, 2012 2:51:27 PM

DDR4 will struggle and fail in the desktop market as DDR3 is so oversuplied and cheap, not to mention that on Sandybridge (Ivybridge also, I assume) 1333 stuff does the job amply, and will do for the a while.

Ivybridge unlocked processor should last 5 years unless some major changes come about pc wise.
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-3
a b } Memory
March 1, 2012 3:04:25 PM

By the time DDR4 arrives on the mainstream market the current glut of cheap DDR3 will be gone. So I don't think that will be a major hindrance to adoption. We'll just have to see how pricey the initial modules are and how much of an increase in performance occurs. Odds are it won't be earth shattering, given that very few applications are bandwidth bound, latency is a greater issue at the moment.

The one area I see where greater bandwidth could be of use is with AMDs APUs and Intel's On-CPU GPUs. When you have both a quad-core CPU and a GPU sharing a dual channel memory bus I'm sure that bandwidth can become an issue, and as Intel and AMD increase the power of their on-chip GPUs bandwidth will become a more pressing issue. In the short term, though, servers are going to be the main market, where DDR4's lower power consumption and enhanced ECC is a big selling point.
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4
March 1, 2012 3:04:39 PM

I just got SB-E the month after it launched. With the recent Ivy Bridge delay, I'm glad I did. I'll probably jump to Ivy Bridge-E if there is such a beast later this year, early next year. At that point, I'll hold off any upgrades until they release a 1366->2011->whatever's next system with DDR4.
Quad channel DDR3 gives me plenty of bandwidth, as did 3 channel before that.
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2
March 1, 2012 3:30:56 PM

Now that we have cleared up DDR4 vs GDDR5. I have another question. What is DDR4's bandwidth example: DDR3 1000mhz = 2000mhz effective bandwidth - GDDR5 1000mhz = 4000mhz effective bandwidth DDR4 1000mhz = ????mhz effective bandwidth
Last time there was a memory change similar to this, Intel went one direction(Ram bus DR) and AMD went with DDR2.
Motherboards are only at a max of 32gb of ram and windows 7 can handle 6x this amount.
It is a good thing there will be lots of time before we see this change.
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0
March 1, 2012 4:12:09 PM

Well... I'm looking forward to the ultimate in RAM Drive performance. Two internal drives for OS and storage while the apps are installed in RAM. Save the memory contents (img) when needed or powering down. Now only if this was a built in Windows feature as the days of DOS.
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0
March 1, 2012 4:12:59 PM

it is still 2012, way to soon to think about upgrading my 3 month old build :) 
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1
March 1, 2012 4:28:42 PM

People are getting way to hung up on this. No one is getting DDR4 unless they do a platform upgrade. Gone are the days of the external memory controller. Memory upgrades from now on will be lockstep with platform/cpu upgrades unless intel makes a CPU with a internal memory controller that can handle both DDR3 and DDR4 which I find unlikely.

And they have to be pin incompatible since they user different signaling and power profiles.....you would damage the MB, CPU, memory controller, memory if they were all the same socket but different ram tpes
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3
March 1, 2012 5:24:21 PM

Damn, I was planning on upgrading sometime next year. I don't think I can wait until 2014. Maybe if I just throw in a new video card and OC my processor some more I can hold off. I just feel like my i5 750 is getting long in the tooth already.

Oh, who am I kidding, I'm probably going to end up upgrading during black Friday this year and then again sometime in 2014. I'm an addict. The first step's admitting it, right?
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3
March 1, 2012 6:09:13 PM

I will be upgrading if we will be able to play BF5 in holographic 3D!!!!!
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1
March 1, 2012 6:30:55 PM

damn this is amazing, ahahahaha hate technology advancing so fast, i hope my waller can take in more new builds soon can't help but always want the top dog and the mid dog, make it like want all of it ahahaha. sucks my pocket dry
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0
March 1, 2012 6:39:15 PM

afrobaconI have yet to make the jump to DDR3. I really need to upgrade


Same here, still rocking DDR2 800 MHz memory here with my Phenom II and 790FX motherboard :) 
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1
March 1, 2012 7:12:52 PM

I just talked about this last week.
I said DDR3 was long in the tooth and time to buy now while its still cheap =D
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0
March 1, 2012 7:16:07 PM

At the rate of speed increase and power reduction, seeing GLADoS powered by a potatoe doesn't seem so far fetched any more
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2
March 1, 2012 7:44:01 PM

I wouldn't recommend jumping if DDR4 is significantly more expensive than DDR3 per gigabyte.
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0
March 1, 2012 8:05:48 PM

demonhorde665they quote a lot of figures while saying nothing about expected latency . keep in mind ddr3 was slow to adopt for several reasons 1. many peopel had jsut shelled out money of ddr2 based systems before ddr3 was annouced or available . 2. DRR3 did and still does cost drastically more than ddr 23. ddr3 has drastically higher latency compared to ddr 2 , if you take a lower speed ddr 3 module and match it to the same speed ddr2 the ddr 2 will perform better because it has lower latency number 3 being the Biggest reasons budget minded enthusiast were not enthusiastic about ddr3. we need latency figures along side the speed figures .

1) You can only use one or the other so people just buy whichever the mobo they are buying supports, which will be DDR4 more and more as time goes on just like it was for DDR3
2) That was only true at the beginning. Actually now DDR2 costs significantly more than DDR3 since the manufacturing has since been switched from mass DDR2 to mass DDR3.
3) Not true, that was only true at the beginning just like it was true for DDR2 vs DDR1. Since they DDR3 latency has come down to the point that it is similar latency and much higher bandwidth.
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1
March 1, 2012 8:08:45 PM

computerfarmerWhy DDR4 instead of DDR5. DDR5 has been produced for years for video cards. Video cards were first to use DDR3 then computer systems followed in their footsteps. If video card companies saw no used for DDR4 then why is it being looked at it at all. I am confused a the thought process here.

i'm with this guy, why the thumbs down? he is dead on right why bother with RIM rambus just like why bother with DDR4 when DDR5 is already here and a finished product on video cards for the last year.
look how long DDR2 lasted, you will be stuck in the same boat with DDR4 because the switch to DDR5 will be a year after.
do you guys really believe DDR4 is going to keep up with quad, septa, octa cpu's, PCIE 3.0 and usb 3.0 at the same time?
i sure don't, but that's due to past experience.
DDR4 is not even out of development and it's already fossilized dinosaur poo.
this is like win 8 just starting to implement touch interface when voice command has been out for almost a decade before siri arrived.
you shouldn't be playing catch up, you should skip over it for the next great thing.
anything less is just milking the consumers for nickle and dimes and is liable to ruin your reputation for being a leader instead of the follower you really are.
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-6
March 1, 2012 8:37:37 PM

"Fully matured APU's in 2014 + ddr4, I smell something beautiful.
.."
I smell a fart, oh no, who smelt it delt it, guilty :) 
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0
March 1, 2012 8:52:09 PM

you guys talking abotu ddr5, you are thinking of GDDR5, G! it isnt regular ddr5 it is basicly what ddr4 is designed after, ddr4 is basicly gddr5 but made for desktops, why would they make a ddr4 and then a ddr5 if they can make ddr4 the same as gddr5. how is this confusing?
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0
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