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Asus P2B v1.10 reboots @beginning of test #6 in memtest

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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 5:02:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

For all the ASUS P2B and 440BX slot1 experts out there, TSIA for the most
part.

The board is flashed to 1014.003, The system used with a bare minimum of
processor, memory and video card.

Initially, using a P2-350, 4MB ATI Rage AGP, and 64MB PC100, the system
passes memtest completely.

If, however, I swap out that processor for a Celeron 600/66, 900/100, or
1300/100 (all in slotkets), the system reboots as soon as it is about 1%
into test #6 (It passes all tests #1-5). I have tried 3 different 64MB
SIMM sticks, one at a time, in different DIMM slots with the same
reset/reboot results. (No USB devices, legacy?!...)

I have tried a different video card, and populating the motherboard
completely with ISA sound, PCI 10/100, PCI aha-2940uw, and AGP GF3 ti200
256MB ram, same reboot. I know power supply and all other components
beside motherboard are OK, as I can swap out the P2B with an MS6119 and
all works fine (Tually 1300/100, 256MB @ fastest memory timings).

The capacitors look fine on the board - hell, they look just about brand
new (though this means nothing, I know - but I've seen a lot of blown caps
lately on recycled materials)...

All stock voltages used for the processors, and look fine in hardware
monitor (1.5V for Tualatin, 1.7V for Coppermines). I can boot P2B/tually
1300 into win2k, but haven't messed around much with stability testing
using quake/cpuburn/etc...


Oh, I got a second one of these boards (same revision), which appears to
have the "bad hardware monitor" syndrome - all voltages are measured at 0
and temperatures are pegged at 130C (even with no CPU thermistor
attached), but fan readings appear to work (CPU fan at 5300rpm). Board
looks clean, no visual clues. Tried reflashing it with the 1014nh.003 (no
hardware monitor) bios, but it still detects the CPU overheating (even
though the bios is not supposed to have a hardware monitor anymore), and
throttles the processor down about 25%... So, I get the long continuous
beep and flashing power light when this throttle down occurs.

Any ideas here? I've done plenty of power cycling, resetting/disabling
bios settings and unplugging of AC power/motherboard CMOS battery. It
almost seems like there might be a DMI/ESCD conflict/issue, or an ISA
irq/address confict somehow (only using AGP Rage). It sure seems odd that
even when using a no hardware monitor bios, it detects overheating CPU and
throttles the processor down...

--
We HAVE been at war with Iraq for 13 years now, bombing their
country on at least a weekly basis.
"U.S.-led sanctions have killed over a million Iraqi citizens,
according to UN studies" - James Jennings
3,000+ innocent Iraqi civilian casualties can't be "wrong"...
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 5:02:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

It might be related to this:
http://members.ams.chello.nl/mgherard/html/photoshop.ht...

I had a similar problem on an Abit BF-6 when used with a
Tualatin Celeron 1.1A with a modified MSI slot adapter that
was solved with a similar modification to the slocket.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 6:23:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:30:23 -0700, Fishface wrote:

> It might be related to this:
> http://members.ams.chello.nl/mgherard/html/photoshop.ht...
>
> I had a similar problem on an Abit BF-6 when used with a Tualatin
> Celeron 1.1A with a modified MSI slot adapter that was solved with a
> similar modification to the slocket.

Sounds like it could be the same thing - how many caps did you use, and
how did you modify your slotket (did it have a Vtt plane?)? For the cap,
did you make the positive lead as short as possible to a Vtt pin, and the
other lead whatever length needed to get to a ground?

--
We HAVE been at war with Iraq for 13 years now, bombing their
country on at least a weekly basis.
"U.S.-led sanctions have killed over a million Iraqi citizens,
according to UN studies" - James Jennings
3,000+ innocent Iraqi civilian casualties can't be "wrong"...
Related resources
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 6:23:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Ixnei wrote:

> Sounds like it could be the same thing - how many caps did you use, and
> how did you modify your slotket (did it have a Vtt plane?)? For the cap,
> did you make the positive lead as short as possible to a Vtt pin, and the
> other lead whatever length needed to get to a ground?

I did it exactly as the picture on that first page shows, connecting the pins
on the back side of the slocket. I don't remember if there was a large
copper area on the back of the socket. There was a space for another
22uf electrolytic capacitor on the front of the board between Vtt and
ground, so I stuck one in there for good measure.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 6:23:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Fishface wrote:
> I did it exactly as the picture on that first page shows, connecting
> the pins on the back side of the slocket.

Actually, I think I only used one of the 100nF caps...
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 7:47:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Ixnei wrote:
> For all the ASUS P2B and 440BX slot1 experts out there, TSIA for the
> most part.
>
> The board is flashed to 1014.003, The system used with a bare minimum
> of processor, memory and video card.
>
> Initially, using a P2-350, 4MB ATI Rage AGP, and 64MB PC100, the
> system passes memtest completely.
>
> If, however, I swap out that processor for a Celeron 600/66, 900/100,
> or 1300/100 (all in slotkets), the system reboots as soon as it is
> about 1% into test #6 (It passes all tests #1-5). I have tried 3
> different 64MB SIMM sticks, one at a time, in different DIMM slots
> with the same reset/reboot results. (No USB devices, legacy?!...)
>
> I have tried a different video card, and populating the motherboard
> completely with ISA sound, PCI 10/100, PCI aha-2940uw, and AGP GF3
> ti200 256MB ram, same reboot. I know power supply and all other
> components beside motherboard are OK, as I can swap out the P2B with
> an MS6119 and all works fine (Tually 1300/100, 256MB @ fastest
> memory timings).
Actually, I've recently noticed exactly the same behaviour here.
memtest test #6 always reboots at 2% (and sometimes it won't even
reboot, but some very odd shutdown happens - fans etc. will spin down,
power led will go off, but hd led stays lit(!)). I can run all other
tests all day long, as well as things like cpuburn. What's very weird
about that memtest #6 failure is also that it doesn't matter at all what
memory area is tested and how large the memory area is - it will always
crash at 2%, no matter what.
I wanted to try some things (like soldering additional caps to vtt)
since I suspect the slotket I have (soltek sl-02a++, modded to work with
tualatin) might not do a good job (it's just a wild guess though), but
didn't have time yet. What slotket do you have?

> The capacitors look fine on the board - hell, they look just about
> brand new (though this means nothing, I know - but I've seen a lot of
> blown caps lately on recycled materials)...
That board is from a time when asus didn't put any junk they could find
on their boards ;-).

> Oh, I got a second one of these boards (same revision), which appears
> to have the "bad hardware monitor" syndrome - all voltages are
> measured at 0 and temperatures are pegged at 130C (even with no CPU
> thermistor attached), but fan readings appear to work (CPU fan at
> 5300rpm). Board looks clean, no visual clues. Tried reflashing it
> with the 1014nh.003 (no hardware monitor) bios, but it still detects
> the CPU overheating (even though the bios is not supposed to have a
> hardware monitor anymore), and throttles the processor down about
> 25%... So, I get the long continuous beep and flashing power light
> when this throttle down occurs.
Are you sure you get throttling? Since the cpu can't do it, this would
mean the board has to downclock fsb - I don't think the p2b bios will do
that, at least I've never heard that it can do this. No idea how to fix
the problem, I'd have supposed that the bios without hardware monitoring
would have been enough.
btw does memtest86 test #6 crash with that board too?

Roland
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 7:47:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:47:23 +0200, Roland Scheidegger wrote:

> Ixnei wrote:
>> For all the ASUS P2B and 440BX slot1 experts out there, TSIA for the
>> most part.
>>
>> The board is flashed to 1014.003, The system used with a bare minimum
>> of processor, memory and video card.
>>
>> Initially, using a P2-350, 4MB ATI Rage AGP, and 64MB PC100, the system
>> passes memtest completely.
>>
>> If, however, I swap out that processor for a Celeron 600/66, 900/100,
>> or 1300/100 (all in slotkets), the system reboots as soon as it is
>> about 1% into test #6 (It passes all tests #1-5). I have tried 3
>> different 64MB SIMM sticks, one at a time, in different DIMM slots with
>> the same reset/reboot results. (No USB devices, legacy?!...)
>>
>> I have tried a different video card, and populating the motherboard
>> completely with ISA sound, PCI 10/100, PCI aha-2940uw, and AGP GF3
>> ti200 256MB ram, same reboot. I know power supply and all other
>> components beside motherboard are OK, as I can swap out the P2B with
>> an MS6119 and all works fine (Tually 1300/100, 256MB @ fastest
>> memory timings).
>
> Actually, I've recently noticed exactly the same behaviour here. memtest
> test #6 always reboots at 2% (and sometimes it won't even reboot, but
> some very odd shutdown happens - fans etc. will spin down, power led
> will go off, but hd led stays lit(!)). I can run all other tests all day
> long, as well as things like cpuburn. What's very weird about that
> memtest #6 failure is also that it doesn't matter at all what memory
> area is tested and how large the memory area is - it will always crash
> at 2%, no matter what.
> I wanted to try some things (like soldering additional caps to vtt)
> since I suspect the slotket I have (soltek sl-02a++, modded to work with
> tualatin) might not do a good job (it's just a wild guess though), but
> didn't have time yet. What slotket do you have?

Curious, Fishface's had a similar response about a mod to Vtt using caps,
to fix an apparent photoshop bug. Do you get that photoshop bug?

http://members.ams.chello.nl/mgherard/html/photoshop.ht...

I'm using some generic 370SPC slocket, and I will be looking at getting
some tantalum caps soon (if I don't have any appropriate ones already).

>> The capacitors look fine on the board - hell, they look just about
>> brand new (though this means nothing, I know - but I've seen a lot of
>> blown caps lately on recycled materials)...
>
> That board is from a time when asus didn't put any junk they could find
> on their boards ;-).

It's just manufacturing - the clean tanks get gunked up, and have to be
refilled/refreshed/etc every so often. Thin residual layers are going to
be deposited on the "foil" if there is any amount of contaminant in the
clean tanks (which there is always going to be). I've seen blown caps on
socket 7 boards. Yes, it's a quality measure of the capacitor vendor, but
stuff happens too, and there's a spectrum of dirtyness to the cleans...

>> Oh, I got a second one of these boards (same revision), which appears
>> to have the "bad hardware monitor" syndrome - all voltages are
>> measured at 0 and temperatures are pegged at 130C (even with no CPU
>> thermistor attached), but fan readings appear to work (CPU fan at
>> 5300rpm). Board looks clean, no visual clues. Tried reflashing it
>> with the 1014nh.003 (no hardware monitor) bios, but it still detects
>> the CPU overheating (even though the bios is not supposed to have a
>> hardware monitor anymore), and throttles the processor down about
>> 25%... So, I get the long continuous beep and flashing power light
>> when this throttle down occurs.
>
> Are you sure you get throttling? Since the cpu can't do it, this would
> mean the board has to downclock fsb - I don't think the p2b bios will do
> that, at least I've never heard that it can do this. No idea how to fix
> the problem, I'd have supposed that the bios without hardware monitoring
> would have been enough.
> btw does memtest86 test #6 crash with that board too?

I know it's throttled, the memory bandwidth drops to about 65MB/s from the
~250MB/s that it should be, as reported by memtest, and testing takes
about 4 times longer. It is something the motherboard performs, and is
evidenced by the non-stop beep and slow flashing power light (as opposed
to power light being solid on with a single short beep).

It did pass memtest with the P2-350, but I didn't bother doing further
testing with faster processors as I already ran into a fairly substantial
roadblock with that board.

I've tried google searches on this - found some people with the same
problem, others with some explanations of the phenomena, but never found a
follow up with a solution...

--
We HAVE been at war with Iraq for 13 years now, bombing their
country on at least a weekly basis.
"U.S.-led sanctions have killed over a million Iraqi citizens,
according to UN studies" - James Jennings
3,000+ innocent Iraqi civilian casualties can't be "wrong"...
April 22, 2004 7:47:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

In article <c6780e$8u191$1@ID-84205.news.uni-berlin.de>, Roland
Scheidegger <rscheidegger@gmx.ch> wrote:

<<snip>>
>
> Actually, I've recently noticed exactly the same behaviour here.
> memtest test #6 always reboots at 2% (and sometimes it won't even
> reboot, but some very odd shutdown happens - fans etc. will spin down,
> power led will go off, but hd led stays lit(!)). I can run all other
> tests all day long, as well as things like cpuburn. What's very weird
> about that memtest #6 failure is also that it doesn't matter at all what
> memory area is tested and how large the memory area is - it will always
> crash at 2%, no matter what.
> I wanted to try some things (like soldering additional caps to vtt)
> since I suspect the slotket I have (soltek sl-02a++, modded to work with
> tualatin) might not do a good job (it's just a wild guess though), but
> didn't have time yet. What slotket do you have?
>
> Roland

Are the symptoms consistent with the HIP6019 latching a fault ?

http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn4587.pdf

Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 7:47:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Paul wrote:

> In article <c6780e$8u191$1@ID-84205.news.uni-berlin.de>, Roland
> Scheidegger <rscheidegger@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
> <<snip>>
>
>>Actually, I've recently noticed exactly the same behaviour here.
>>memtest test #6 always reboots at 2% (and sometimes it won't even
>>reboot, but some very odd shutdown happens - fans etc. will spin down,
>>power led will go off, but hd led stays lit(!)). I can run all other
>>tests all day long, as well as things like cpuburn. What's very weird
>>about that memtest #6 failure is also that it doesn't matter at all what
>>memory area is tested and how large the memory area is - it will always
>>crash at 2%, no matter what.
>>I wanted to try some things (like soldering additional caps to vtt)
>>since I suspect the slotket I have (soltek sl-02a++, modded to work with
>>tualatin) might not do a good job (it's just a wild guess though), but
>>didn't have time yet. What slotket do you have?
>>
>>Roland
>
>
> Are the symptoms consistent with the HIP6019 latching a fault ?
>
> http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn4587.pdf
>
> Paul

No. The board won't power up if the HIP6019 latches a fault - usually
the CPU fan will 'twitch' at power up, but the board shuts down again
immediately.

P2B
April 22, 2004 12:13:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

In article <%3Jhc.26484$CO3.1037263@news20.bellglobal.com>, P2B
<p2b@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Paul wrote:
>
> > In article <c6780e$8u191$1@ID-84205.news.uni-berlin.de>, Roland
> > Scheidegger <rscheidegger@gmx.ch> wrote:
> >
> > <<snip>>
> >
> >>Actually, I've recently noticed exactly the same behaviour here.
> >>memtest test #6 always reboots at 2% (and sometimes it won't even
> >>reboot, but some very odd shutdown happens - fans etc. will spin down,
> >>power led will go off, but hd led stays lit(!)). I can run all other
> >>tests all day long, as well as things like cpuburn. What's very weird
> >>about that memtest #6 failure is also that it doesn't matter at all what
> >>memory area is tested and how large the memory area is - it will always
> >>crash at 2%, no matter what.
> >>I wanted to try some things (like soldering additional caps to vtt)
> >>since I suspect the slotket I have (soltek sl-02a++, modded to work with
> >>tualatin) might not do a good job (it's just a wild guess though), but
> >>didn't have time yet. What slotket do you have?
> >>
> >>Roland
> >
> >
> > Are the symptoms consistent with the HIP6019 latching a fault ?
> >
> > http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn4587.pdf
> >
> > Paul
>
> No. The board won't power up if the HIP6019 latches a fault - usually
> the CPU fan will 'twitch' at power up, but the board shuts down again
> immediately.
>
> P2B

I'm referring to the behavior if the 6019 detects a fault _after_
a successful boot. While some voltage regulators automatically
recover from a fault, the datasheet for the 6019 looks like you
might need to reset it to restore operation. (Other switchers
run in hiccup mode until the fault is removed.)

Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 6:09:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Ixnei wrote:
> Curious, Fishface's had a similar response about a mod to Vtt using
> caps, to fix an apparent photoshop bug. Do you get that photoshop
> bug?
>
> http://members.ams.chello.nl/mgherard/html/photoshop.ht...
Unfortunately I don't have photoshop, so I couldn't test this.

> I'm using some generic 370SPC slocket, and I will be looking at
> getting some tantalum caps soon (if I don't have any appropriate ones
> already).
Just as a side note, using generic slockets with coppermines (and even
more so modded with tualatins) seems often to be problematic. I'd have
just tried a slot-t, but it's not available in switzerland, and I'm not
willing to pay more than the adapter costs in shipping costs (and the
soltek slotket isn't quite generic, it is listed by intel as meeting
coppermine requirements). If your 370SPC is revision 1.0 from Fastfame
then it's explicitly listed by intel as not coppermine compliant.

>> Are you sure you get throttling? Since the cpu can't do it, this
>> would mean the board has to downclock fsb - I don't think the p2b
>> bios will do that, at least I've never heard that it can do this.
>> No idea how to fix the problem, I'd have supposed that the bios
>> without hardware monitoring would have been enough. btw does
>> memtest86 test #6 crash with that board too?
>
>
> I know it's throttled, the memory bandwidth drops to about 65MB/s
> from the ~250MB/s that it should be, as reported by memtest, and
> testing takes about 4 times longer. It is something the motherboard
> performs, and is evidenced by the non-stop beep and slow flashing
> power light (as opposed to power light being solid on with a single
> short beep).
ah ok. Didn't know it actually throttles and not just flash and blink ;-).

> It did pass memtest with the P2-350, but I didn't bother doing
> further testing with faster processors as I already ran into a fairly
> substantial roadblock with that board.
>
> I've tried google searches on this - found some people with the same
> problem, others with some explanations of the phenomena, but never
> found a follow up with a solution...
Maybe the monitoring chip is defective? I don't know if that is
probable, but if this is indeed the case you might need to replace it
(I'm not sure if there are other differences between boards with/without
monitoring, but it might work if the chip is removed without replacing it).

Roland
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 6:18:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

P2B wrote:
>>>> Actually, I've recently noticed exactly the same behaviour here.
>>> memtest test #6 always reboots at 2% (and sometimes it won't even
>>> reboot, but some very odd shutdown happens - fans etc. will spin down,
>>> power led will go off, but hd led stays lit(!)). I can run all other
>>> tests all day long, as well as things like cpuburn. What's very weird
>>> about that memtest #6 failure is also that it doesn't matter at all what
>>> memory area is tested and how large the memory area is - it will always
>>> crash at 2%, no matter what.
>>> I wanted to try some things (like soldering additional caps to vtt)
>>> since I suspect the slotket I have (soltek sl-02a++, modded to work
>>> with tualatin) might not do a good job (it's just a wild guess
>>> though), but didn't have time yet. What slotket do you have?
>>>
>>> Roland
>>
>>
>>
>> Are the symptoms consistent with the HIP6019 latching a fault ?
>>
>> http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn4587.pdf
>>
>> Paul
>
>
> No. The board won't power up if the HIP6019 latches a fault - usually
> the CPU fan will 'twitch' at power up, but the board shuts down again
> immediately.

Hmm. Are you sure this always happens? Looking at the datasheet, it
could explain the behaviour I see (the strange shutdowns, and also (I
forgot to mention that before) when it reboots, I can hear the fans (I
assume cpu fan, but I haven't listened that closely) spinning slower for
a very short period of time (which doesn't happen with a normal reset).
I don't feel good about measuring voltages on boards when it's running
though (even more so if the measurement points are tiny pins), I guess
it's even impossible in that cramped case. I think I'll try modifying
the slocket first.

Roland
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 9:32:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:09:05 +0200, Roland Scheidegger wrote:

> Ixnei wrote:
>> Curious, Fishface's had a similar response about a mod to Vtt using
>> caps, to fix an apparent photoshop bug. Do you get that photoshop
>> bug?
>>
>> http://members.ams.chello.nl/mgherard/html/photoshop.ht...
> Unfortunately I don't have photoshop, so I couldn't test this.
>
>> I'm using some generic 370SPC slocket, and I will be looking at
>> getting some tantalum caps soon (if I don't have any appropriate ones
>> already).
>
> Just as a side note, using generic slockets with coppermines (and even
> more so modded with tualatins) seems often to be problematic. I'd have
> just tried a slot-t, but it's not available in switzerland, and I'm not
> willing to pay more than the adapter costs in shipping costs (and the
> soltek slotket isn't quite generic, it is listed by intel as meeting
> coppermine requirements). If your 370SPC is revision 1.0 from Fastfame
> then it's explicitly listed by intel as not coppermine compliant.

Yeah, well they work in the other boards I've tested. In fact, this type
of slotket with both a 733 and a 766 celeron worked fine in a P2L97,
and passed memtest. The P2B just doesn't seem to have enough noise
immunity.


>> It did pass memtest with the P2-350, but I didn't bother doing
>> further testing with faster processors as I already ran into a fairly
>> substantial roadblock with that board.
>>
>> I've tried google searches on this - found some people with the same
>> problem, others with some explanations of the phenomena, but never
>> found a follow up with a solution...
>
> Maybe the monitoring chip is defective? I don't know if that is
> probable, but if this is indeed the case you might need to replace it
> (I'm not sure if there are other differences between boards with/without
> monitoring, but it might work if the chip is removed without replacing it).

Yeah that might be a possibility. I know on the other board the CPU temp
shows up as a non-selectable N/A (not 130C [Err]), so perhaps this route
might work. I'd rather just disable the throttling somehow in the bios...

> Roland

--
We HAVE been at war with Iraq for 13 years now, bombing their
country on at least a weekly basis.
"U.S.-led sanctions have killed over a million Iraqi citizens,
according to UN studies" - James Jennings
3,000+ innocent Iraqi civilian casualties can't be "wrong"...
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 22, 2004 11:04:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Roland Scheidegger wrote:

> Ixnei wrote:
>
>> Curious, Fishface's had a similar response about a mod to Vtt using
>> caps, to fix an apparent photoshop bug. Do you get that photoshop
>> bug?
>>
>> http://members.ams.chello.nl/mgherard/html/photoshop.ht...
>
> Unfortunately I don't have photoshop, so I couldn't test this.
>
>> I'm using some generic 370SPC slocket, and I will be looking at
>> getting some tantalum caps soon (if I don't have any appropriate ones
>> already).
>
> Just as a side note, using generic slockets with coppermines (and even
> more so modded with tualatins) seems often to be problematic. I'd have
> just tried a slot-t, but it's not available in switzerland, and I'm not
> willing to pay more than the adapter costs in shipping costs (and the
> soltek slotket isn't quite generic, it is listed by intel as meeting
> coppermine requirements). If your 370SPC is revision 1.0 from Fastfame
> then it's explicitly listed by intel as not coppermine compliant.

Yes, it's on the "DO NOT Meet Minimum Requirements" list but I'm not quite
sure what to make of that list as they also have the Super Slocket III,
which is about the only slotket still available, on it but they do work. At
least the two I have did.


<snip>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 23, 2004 2:48:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Roland Scheidegger wrote:

> P2B wrote:
>
>>>>> Actually, I've recently noticed exactly the same behaviour here.
>>>>
>>>> memtest test #6 always reboots at 2% (and sometimes it won't even
>>>> reboot, but some very odd shutdown happens - fans etc. will spin down,
>>>> power led will go off, but hd led stays lit(!)). I can run all other
>>>> tests all day long, as well as things like cpuburn. What's very weird
>>>> about that memtest #6 failure is also that it doesn't matter at all
>>>> what
>>>> memory area is tested and how large the memory area is - it will always
>>>> crash at 2%, no matter what.
>>>> I wanted to try some things (like soldering additional caps to vtt)
>>>> since I suspect the slotket I have (soltek sl-02a++, modded to work
>>>> with tualatin) might not do a good job (it's just a wild guess
>>>> though), but didn't have time yet. What slotket do you have?
>>>>
>>>> Roland
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are the symptoms consistent with the HIP6019 latching a fault ?
>>>
>>> http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn4587.pdf
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> No. The board won't power up if the HIP6019 latches a fault - usually
>> the CPU fan will 'twitch' at power up, but the board shuts down again
>> immediately.
>
>
> Hmm. Are you sure this always happens? Looking at the datasheet, it
> could explain the behaviour I see (the strange shutdowns, and also (I
> forgot to mention that before) when it reboots, I can hear the fans (I
> assume cpu fan, but I haven't listened that closely) spinning slower for
> a very short period of time (which doesn't happen with a normal reset).

I find this whole thread rather odd, as it's replete with reports of P2B
behaviors which don't match my experience with the boards at all! I've
decided to consolidate my thoughts and observations here rather than in
a series of replies to other posts in the thread.

With regard to VRM fault, I had assumed the HIP6019 fault signal was
involved in shutting down the board if there's a problem in the VRM
circuitry, but that turns out not to be the case. I just checked through
my inventory of parts boards and found several flavours of P2B with the
6019 removed. There is no connection to pin 13 (FAULT/RT) on any of them.

To me this implies the hardware monitoring chip (W83781D) is somehow
involved, which is consistent with my experience. I once burned out a
fan tachometer input on one of my boards and decided to replace the
monitor chip. The board would not power on without the monitor chip - I
tried it for interest's sake and the symptoms were identical to a failed
6019, i.e. CPU fan twitches but board does not power up. This still
doesn't tell us what happens if the chip shuts down during operation,
however.

As an aside, failure of the W83781D chip can be very frustrating if you
are trying to repair a dead board. To date I have been unable to find a
way to diagnose W83781D vs. 440BX Northbridge failure. I have fixed two
P2B-DS boards by replacing the W83781D 'on spec', but three others were
still dead afterward.

Your report of fans spinning slower on reboot after a 'strange shutdown'
does not seem plausible as there is nothing but a power transistor
between +12v from the power supply and the onboard fan headers. I assume
the power transistor is there to be sacrificed if a fan header supply
pin is shorted to ground, otherwise traces on the board might melt. I've
fixed a couple of boards with dead fan headers by replacing this
transistor, and in both cases it failed after a chassis fan seized. I
suppose it would be possible to slow the fans by pulsing the 'on' signal
to the power transistor, but this seems unlikely to me.

The OP's report of 'CPU throttling' also appears implausible since the
BIOS does not appear to have such functionality. This is expected since
CPUs available when the board was designed did not support throttling,
nor does the BIOS contain the I2C code required to instruct the clock
chip to change FSB on the fly. Note that the OP's temperature readings
are easily simulated - 130 degrees is the maximum the monitoring chip
can report, and is obtained by connecting the sensor input pins
together. I tried that on several flavours of P2B here, and in all cases
the BIOS reports a hardware error, but boots normally if you hit F2 -
with fans and FSB both running at their usual speeds.

Given the above, my best guess is the symptoms observed by the OP on the
board with the funky hardware monitor are entirely due to the monitoring
chip failing in an unusual fashion, resulting in the BIOS becoming
thoroughly confused when it reads (or tries to read) the monitor chip's
registers.

And finally, back to the original issue of memtest86 crashing shortly
after starting test 6. I've never seen this under any circumstances. Are
we talking about the original memtest86 v3.0 (which I've used on P2B
boards for years), or memtest86 3.1a, or memtest86+ 1.x ?? I've never
used any of the recently released versions.

> I don't feel good about measuring voltages on boards when it's running
> though (even more so if the measurement points are tiny pins), I guess
> it's even impossible in that cramped case. I think I'll try modifying
> the slocket first.

I understand your trepidation, but IME errant probing of a running board
rarely causes problems a reboot doesn't cure. Tip: The contacts in a
female Molex connector fit nicely on most meter probes. To make fine
probes for your meter, just remove a couple from a spare Molex, solder
jumper pins from a dead board onto them, and slide onto the existing
probes. Now you can measure individual chip pins on the board with
greatly reduced risk of shorting to an adjacent pin.

P2B
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 23, 2004 3:10:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Paul wrote:

> In article <%3Jhc.26484$CO3.1037263@news20.bellglobal.com>, P2B
> <p2b@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>Paul wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <c6780e$8u191$1@ID-84205.news.uni-berlin.de>, Roland
>>>Scheidegger <rscheidegger@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>><<snip>>
>>>
>>>>Actually, I've recently noticed exactly the same behaviour here.
>>>>memtest test #6 always reboots at 2% (and sometimes it won't even
>>>>reboot, but some very odd shutdown happens - fans etc. will spin down,
>>>>power led will go off, but hd led stays lit(!)). I can run all other
>>>>tests all day long, as well as things like cpuburn. What's very weird
>>>>about that memtest #6 failure is also that it doesn't matter at all what
>>>>memory area is tested and how large the memory area is - it will always
>>>>crash at 2%, no matter what.
>>>>I wanted to try some things (like soldering additional caps to vtt)
>>>>since I suspect the slotket I have (soltek sl-02a++, modded to work with
>>>>tualatin) might not do a good job (it's just a wild guess though), but
>>>>didn't have time yet. What slotket do you have?
>>>>
>>>>Roland
>>>
>>>
>>>Are the symptoms consistent with the HIP6019 latching a fault ?
>>>
>>>http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn4587.pdf
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>>No. The board won't power up if the HIP6019 latches a fault - usually
>>the CPU fan will 'twitch' at power up, but the board shuts down again
>>immediately.
>>
>>P2B
>
>
> I'm referring to the behavior if the 6019 detects a fault _after_
> a successful boot. While some voltage regulators automatically
> recover from a fault, the datasheet for the 6019 looks like you
> might need to reset it to restore operation. (Other switchers
> run in hiccup mode until the fault is removed.)
>
> Paul

It turns out nothing happens as a direct result of the 6019 detecting a
fault at _any_ time as there is no connection to the fault pin - see my
other post in this thread.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 23, 2004 3:42:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

P2B wrote:

>
>
> Roland Scheidegger wrote:
>
>> P2B wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Actually, I've recently noticed exactly the same behaviour here.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> memtest test #6 always reboots at 2% (and sometimes it won't even
>>>>> reboot, but some very odd shutdown happens - fans etc. will spin down,
>>>>> power led will go off, but hd led stays lit(!)). I can run all other
>>>>> tests all day long, as well as things like cpuburn. What's very weird
>>>>> about that memtest #6 failure is also that it doesn't matter at all
>>>>> what
>>>>> memory area is tested and how large the memory area is - it will
>>>>> always
>>>>> crash at 2%, no matter what.
>>>>> I wanted to try some things (like soldering additional caps to vtt)
>>>>> since I suspect the slotket I have (soltek sl-02a++, modded to work
>>>>> with tualatin) might not do a good job (it's just a wild guess
>>>>> though), but didn't have time yet. What slotket do you have?
>>>>>
>>>>> Roland
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are the symptoms consistent with the HIP6019 latching a fault ?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn4587.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No. The board won't power up if the HIP6019 latches a fault - usually
>>> the CPU fan will 'twitch' at power up, but the board shuts down again
>>> immediately.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hmm. Are you sure this always happens? Looking at the datasheet, it
>> could explain the behaviour I see (the strange shutdowns, and also (I
>> forgot to mention that before) when it reboots, I can hear the fans (I
>> assume cpu fan, but I haven't listened that closely) spinning slower
>> for a very short period of time (which doesn't happen with a normal
>> reset).
>
>
> I find this whole thread rather odd, as it's replete with reports of P2B
> behaviors which don't match my experience with the boards at all! I've
> decided to consolidate my thoughts and observations here rather than in
> a series of replies to other posts in the thread.
>
> With regard to VRM fault, I had assumed the HIP6019 fault signal was
> involved in shutting down the board if there's a problem in the VRM
> circuitry, but that turns out not to be the case. I just checked through
> my inventory of parts boards and found several flavours of P2B with the
> 6019 removed. There is no connection to pin 13 (FAULT/RT) on any of them.
>
> To me this implies the hardware monitoring chip (W83781D) is somehow
> involved, which is consistent with my experience. I once burned out a
> fan tachometer input on one of my boards and decided to replace the
> monitor chip. The board would not power on without the monitor chip - I
> tried it for interest's sake and the symptoms were identical to a failed
> 6019, i.e. CPU fan twitches but board does not power up. This still
> doesn't tell us what happens if the chip shuts down during operation,
> however.
>
> As an aside, failure of the W83781D chip can be very frustrating if you
> are trying to repair a dead board. To date I have been unable to find a
> way to diagnose W83781D vs. 440BX Northbridge failure. I have fixed two
> P2B-DS boards by replacing the W83781D 'on spec', but three others were
> still dead afterward.
>
> Your report of fans spinning slower on reboot after a 'strange shutdown'
> does not seem plausible as there is nothing but a power transistor
> between +12v from the power supply and the onboard fan headers. I assume
> the power transistor is there to be sacrificed if a fan header supply
> pin is shorted to ground, otherwise traces on the board might melt. I've
> fixed a couple of boards with dead fan headers by replacing this
> transistor, and in both cases it failed after a chassis fan seized. I
> suppose it would be possible to slow the fans by pulsing the 'on' signal
> to the power transistor, but this seems unlikely to me.

My P2B has practically nothing in the way of monitoring but your
supposition about pulsing the 'on' signal to the transistor is precisely
how SpeedFan works on my BP6.

If the fan can be turned off for, say, suspend then it can be pulsed too.


> The OP's report of 'CPU throttling' also appears implausible since the
> BIOS does not appear to have such functionality. This is expected since
> CPUs available when the board was designed did not support throttling,
> nor does the BIOS contain the I2C code required to instruct the clock
> chip to change FSB on the fly. Note that the OP's temperature readings
> are easily simulated - 130 degrees is the maximum the monitoring chip
> can report, and is obtained by connecting the sensor input pins
> together. I tried that on several flavours of P2B here, and in all cases
> the BIOS reports a hardware error, but boots normally if you hit F2 -
> with fans and FSB both running at their usual speeds.

My P2B (VM) doesn't have any visible CPU throttling function in BIOS either
and while your comment about CPUs of the era not 'supporting' it is true
that doesn't mean CPU throttling couldn't be, and wasn't, done. My original
issue BH6, for example, has BIOS settings for CPU throttling: 75%, 62.5%,
50%, etc. There was no 'CPU support' needed as those older systems
throttled by blocking the system clock. It's processor independent.

Now, I also note that my P2B runs ACPI and if his thermal sensor is 'broke'
at 130 I wonder if windows itself could be throttling, which would depend
on the ACPI table (thermal zones). Have you looked to see what the P2B BIOS
has in there?

I suppose it could also be possible that the BIOS has a non adjustable
throttle built in at some fixed temperature value and, as noted above, it
wouldn't need to set an FSB freq into the clock gen to do it.


> Given the above, my best guess is the symptoms observed by the OP on the
> board with the funky hardware monitor are entirely due to the monitoring
> chip failing in an unusual fashion, resulting in the BIOS becoming
> thoroughly confused when it reads (or tries to read) the monitor chip's
> registers.
>
<snip>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 23, 2004 11:06:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:48:31 -0400, P2B wrote:

> I find this whole thread rather odd, as it's replete with reports of P2B
> behaviors which don't match my experience with the boards at all! I've
> decided to consolidate my thoughts and observations here rather than in
> a series of replies to other posts in the thread.

<snip>

> The OP's report of 'CPU throttling' also appears implausible since the
> BIOS does not appear to have such functionality. This is expected since
> CPUs available when the board was designed did not support throttling,
> nor does the BIOS contain the I2C code required to instruct the clock
> chip to change FSB on the fly. Note that the OP's temperature readings
> are easily simulated - 130 degrees is the maximum the monitoring chip
> can report, and is obtained by connecting the sensor input pins
> together. I tried that on several flavours of P2B here, and in all cases
> the BIOS reports a hardware error, but boots normally if you hit F2 -
> with fans and FSB both running at their usual speeds.

Evidently standby mode is entered 75% of the time in a short timecycle:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=p2b+hardware+monitor+...

I will try playing with disabling "green" power functionality in the BIOS.

> Given the above, my best guess is the symptoms observed by the OP on the
> board with the funky hardware monitor are entirely due to the monitoring
> chip failing in an unusual fashion, resulting in the BIOS becoming
> thoroughly confused when it reads (or tries to read) the monitor chip's
> registers.

Even when using the "no hardware monitor" BIOS? I think you're correct
tho, that it is still reading them and believing there is a heat problem.

> And finally, back to the original issue of memtest86 crashing shortly
> after starting test 6. I've never seen this under any circumstances. Are
> we talking about the original memtest86 v3.0 (which I've used on P2B
> boards for years), or memtest86 3.1a, or memtest86+ 1.x ?? I've never
> used any of the recently released versions.

I'm using the most recently released version - I have the older 3.0
version which I will shortly test to confirm/deny this!!!

--
We HAVE been at war with Iraq for 13 years now, bombing their
country on at least a weekly basis.
"U.S.-led sanctions have killed over a million Iraqi citizens,
according to UN studies" - James Jennings
3,000+ innocent Iraqi civilian casualties can't be "wrong"...
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 23, 2004 6:35:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

P2B wrote:
>
> I find this whole thread rather odd, as it's replete with reports of
> P2B behaviors which don't match my experience with the boards at
> all! I've decided to consolidate my thoughts and observations here
> rather than in a series of replies to other posts in the thread.
You probably don't use substandard slockets ;-). And even if you do, if
it's indeed caused by improper vtt buffering, then it's exactly the sort
of issue you'd expect to only see on some boards, not on all, even if
it's the same revision.

> Your report of fans spinning slower on reboot after a 'strange
> shutdown' does not seem plausible as there is nothing but a power
> transistor between +12v from the power supply and the onboard fan
> headers. I assume the power transistor is there to be sacrificed if a
> fan header supply pin is shorted to ground, otherwise traces on the
> board might melt. I've fixed a couple of boards with dead fan
> headers by replacing this transistor, and in both cases it failed
> after a chassis fan seized. I suppose it would be possible to slow
> the fans by pulsing the 'on' signal to the power transistor, but this
> seems unlikely to me.
If the voltage regulator shuts down due to an error, I assume weird
things might happen - including a half shutdown immediately followed by
a restart (which could explain the fans spinning slower).

> And finally, back to the original issue of memtest86 crashing shortly
> after starting test 6. I've never seen this under any circumstances.
> Are we talking about the original memtest86 v3.0 (which I've used on
> P2B boards for years), or memtest86 3.1a, or memtest86+ 1.x ?? I've
> never used any of the recently released versions.
I've tried with memtest86 3.0, and memtest86+ 1.11 (I've switched to
that so I could compile it myself, since 3.0 needs an ancient gcc
2.95.3). I wasn't aware that there's now a memtest86 3.1 version, the
3.0 version was there for a LONG time. I don't think though testing with
3.1 would change the result...
(I also forgot to mention the problem is independant of vcore (tested
1.4/1.5/1.6V) or fsb/cpu clock (tested 133, 100 and 66MHz FSB)).

>> I don't feel good about measuring voltages on boards when it's
>> running though (even more so if the measurement points are tiny
>> pins), I guess it's even impossible in that cramped case. I think
>> I'll try modifying the slocket first.
>
>
> I understand your trepidation, but IME errant probing of a running
> board rarely causes problems a reboot doesn't cure. Tip: The contacts
> in a female Molex connector fit nicely on most meter probes. To make
> fine probes for your meter, just remove a couple from a spare Molex,
> solder jumper pins from a dead board onto them, and slide onto the
> existing probes. Now you can measure individual chip pins on the
> board with greatly reduced risk of shorting to an adjacent pin.
I'll try it when soldering vtt caps doesn't help.

Roland
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 24, 2004 3:12:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:35:01 +0200, Roland Scheidegger wrote:

> P2B wrote:
>>
>> I find this whole thread rather odd, as it's replete with reports of
>> P2B behaviors which don't match my experience with the boards at
>> all! I've decided to consolidate my thoughts and observations here
>> rather than in a series of replies to other posts in the thread.
>
> You probably don't use substandard slockets ;-). And even if you do, if
> it's indeed caused by improper vtt buffering, then it's exactly the sort
> of issue you'd expect to only see on some boards, not on all, even if
> it's the same revision.

I believe he also does mods to Vtt on the motherboard in order to drop Vtt
voltages, which should also reduce Vtt noise to some extent...

http://tipperlinne.com/p2b-dsvtt.htm

>> And finally, back to the original issue of memtest86 crashing shortly
>> after starting test 6. I've never seen this under any circumstances.
>> Are we talking about the original memtest86 v3.0 (which I've used on
>> P2B boards for years), or memtest86 3.1a, or memtest86+ 1.x ?? I've
>> never used any of the recently released versions.
>
> I've tried with memtest86 3.0, and memtest86+ 1.11 (I've switched to
> that so I could compile it myself, since 3.0 needs an ancient gcc
> 2.95.3). I wasn't aware that there's now a memtest86 3.1 version, the
> 3.0 version was there for a LONG time. I don't think though testing with
> 3.1 would change the result...
> (I also forgot to mention the problem is independant of vcore (tested
> 1.4/1.5/1.6V) or fsb/cpu clock (tested 133, 100 and 66MHz FSB)).

I've also used 3.0 and 1.11 - same results on both (system reboot about
1-2% into test #6).

--
We HAVE been at war with Iraq for 13 years now, bombing their
country on at least a weekly basis.
"U.S.-led sanctions have killed over a million Iraqi citizens,
according to UN studies" - James Jennings
3,000+ innocent Iraqi civilian casualties can't be "wrong"...
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 26, 2004 12:46:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

David Maynard wrote:
> P2B wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Roland Scheidegger wrote:
>>
>>> P2B wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Actually, I've recently noticed exactly the same behaviour here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> memtest test #6 always reboots at 2% (and sometimes it won't even
>>>>>> reboot, but some very odd shutdown happens - fans etc. will spin
>>>>>> down,
>>>>>> power led will go off, but hd led stays lit(!)). I can run all other
>>>>>> tests all day long, as well as things like cpuburn. What's very weird
>>>>>> about that memtest #6 failure is also that it doesn't matter at
>>>>>> all what
>>>>>> memory area is tested and how large the memory area is - it will
>>>>>> always
>>>>>> crash at 2%, no matter what.
>>>>>> I wanted to try some things (like soldering additional caps to
>>>>>> vtt) since I suspect the slotket I have (soltek sl-02a++, modded
>>>>>> to work with tualatin) might not do a good job (it's just a wild
>>>>>> guess though), but didn't have time yet. What slotket do you have?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roland
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Are the symptoms consistent with the HIP6019 latching a fault ?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.intersil.com/data/fn/fn4587.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No. The board won't power up if the HIP6019 latches a fault -
>>>> usually the CPU fan will 'twitch' at power up, but the board shuts
>>>> down again immediately.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hmm. Are you sure this always happens? Looking at the datasheet, it
>>> could explain the behaviour I see (the strange shutdowns, and also (I
>>> forgot to mention that before) when it reboots, I can hear the fans
>>> (I assume cpu fan, but I haven't listened that closely) spinning
>>> slower for a very short period of time (which doesn't happen with a
>>> normal reset).
>>
>>
>>
>> I find this whole thread rather odd, as it's replete with reports of
>> P2B behaviors which don't match my experience with the boards at all!
>> I've decided to consolidate my thoughts and observations here rather
>> than in a series of replies to other posts in the thread.
>>
>> With regard to VRM fault, I had assumed the HIP6019 fault signal was
>> involved in shutting down the board if there's a problem in the VRM
>> circuitry, but that turns out not to be the case. I just checked
>> through my inventory of parts boards and found several flavours of P2B
>> with the 6019 removed. There is no connection to pin 13 (FAULT/RT) on
>> any of them.
>>
>> To me this implies the hardware monitoring chip (W83781D) is somehow
>> involved, which is consistent with my experience. I once burned out a
>> fan tachometer input on one of my boards and decided to replace the
>> monitor chip. The board would not power on without the monitor chip -
>> I tried it for interest's sake and the symptoms were identical to a
>> failed 6019, i.e. CPU fan twitches but board does not power up. This
>> still doesn't tell us what happens if the chip shuts down during
>> operation, however.
>>
>> As an aside, failure of the W83781D chip can be very frustrating if
>> you are trying to repair a dead board. To date I have been unable to
>> find a way to diagnose W83781D vs. 440BX Northbridge failure. I have
>> fixed two P2B-DS boards by replacing the W83781D 'on spec', but three
>> others were still dead afterward.
>>
>> Your report of fans spinning slower on reboot after a 'strange
>> shutdown' does not seem plausible as there is nothing but a power
>> transistor between +12v from the power supply and the onboard fan
>> headers. I assume the power transistor is there to be sacrificed if a
>> fan header supply pin is shorted to ground, otherwise traces on the
>> board might melt. I've fixed a couple of boards with dead fan headers
>> by replacing this transistor, and in both cases it failed after a
>> chassis fan seized. I suppose it would be possible to slow the fans by
>> pulsing the 'on' signal to the power transistor, but this seems
>> unlikely to me.
>
>
> My P2B has practically nothing in the way of monitoring but your
> supposition about pulsing the 'on' signal to the transistor is precisely
> how SpeedFan works on my BP6.
>
> If the fan can be turned off for, say, suspend then it can be pulsed too.

True - however I've never seen a P2B run the fans slow, but that could
be because I've never triggered the BIOS to do so - which seems unlikely
given the amount of testing and repair I've done one these boards.

>> The OP's report of 'CPU throttling' also appears implausible since the
>> BIOS does not appear to have such functionality. This is expected
>> since CPUs available when the board was designed did not support
>> throttling, nor does the BIOS contain the I2C code required to
>> instruct the clock chip to change FSB on the fly. Note that the OP's
>> temperature readings are easily simulated - 130 degrees is the maximum
>> the monitoring chip can report, and is obtained by connecting the
>> sensor input pins together. I tried that on several flavours of P2B
>> here, and in all cases the BIOS reports a hardware error, but boots
>> normally if you hit F2 - with fans and FSB both running at their usual
>> speeds.
>
>
> My P2B (VM) doesn't have any visible CPU throttling function in BIOS
> either and while your comment about CPUs of the era not 'supporting' it
> is true that doesn't mean CPU throttling couldn't be, and wasn't, done.
> My original issue BH6, for example, has BIOS settings for CPU
> throttling: 75%, 62.5%, 50%, etc. There was no 'CPU support' needed as
> those older systems throttled by blocking the system clock. It's
> processor independent.
>
> Now, I also note that my P2B runs ACPI and if his thermal sensor is
> 'broke' at 130 I wonder if windows itself could be throttling, which
> would depend on the ACPI table (thermal zones). Have you looked to see
> what the P2B BIOS has in there?

I didn't boot Windows when I tested this the other day, so I just fired
up a P2B-DS with both CPU temperature sensors shorted, i.e. jammed at
130 degrees. The BIOS complains it found a hardware error, then emits a
constant tone from the speaker after you tell it to boot anyway. Windows
XP Pro then boots normally, and according to Sandra, is not throttling.
CPU and FSB speeds are reported to be normal, and benchmark results are
also normal.

> I suppose it could also be possible that the BIOS has a non adjustable
> throttle built in at some fixed temperature value and, as noted above,
> it wouldn't need to set an FSB freq into the clock gen to do it.

Possibly, but I can't seem to trigger it!

>> Given the above, my best guess is the symptoms observed by the OP on
>> the board with the funky hardware monitor are entirely due to the
>> monitoring chip failing in an unusual fashion, resulting in the BIOS
>> becoming thoroughly confused when it reads (or tries to read) the
>> monitor chip's registers.
>>
> <snip>
>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 26, 2004 12:54:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Ixnei wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:48:31 -0400, P2B wrote:
>
>
>>I find this whole thread rather odd, as it's replete with reports of P2B
>>behaviors which don't match my experience with the boards at all! I've
>>decided to consolidate my thoughts and observations here rather than in
>>a series of replies to other posts in the thread.
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>The OP's report of 'CPU throttling' also appears implausible since the
>>BIOS does not appear to have such functionality. This is expected since
>>CPUs available when the board was designed did not support throttling,
>>nor does the BIOS contain the I2C code required to instruct the clock
>>chip to change FSB on the fly. Note that the OP's temperature readings
>>are easily simulated - 130 degrees is the maximum the monitoring chip
>>can report, and is obtained by connecting the sensor input pins
>>together. I tried that on several flavours of P2B here, and in all cases
>>the BIOS reports a hardware error, but boots normally if you hit F2 -
>>with fans and FSB both running at their usual speeds.
>
>
> Evidently standby mode is entered 75% of the time in a short timecycle:
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=p2b+hardware+monitor+...
>
> I will try playing with disabling "green" power functionality in the BIOS.

I can't find any evidence the information in that post is correct. I
currently have a P2B-DS running on the bench with both CPU sensors
shorted and reporting 130 degrees, and Sandra benchmarks running. The
onboard speaker is emitting a constant tone, but apart from that I'm
getting normal benchmark values and Task Manager is reporting 100% CPU
utilisation while the benchmark is running.

>>Given the above, my best guess is the symptoms observed by the OP on the
>>board with the funky hardware monitor are entirely due to the monitoring
>>chip failing in an unusual fashion, resulting in the BIOS becoming
>>thoroughly confused when it reads (or tries to read) the monitor chip's
>>registers.
>
>
> Even when using the "no hardware monitor" BIOS? I think you're correct
> tho, that it is still reading them and believing there is a heat problem.

The board I was working on wouldn't even power on without a hardware
monitor chip, so there must be some dependency on the chip regardless of
which BIOS is installed.

>>And finally, back to the original issue of memtest86 crashing shortly
>>after starting test 6. I've never seen this under any circumstances. Are
>>we talking about the original memtest86 v3.0 (which I've used on P2B
>>boards for years), or memtest86 3.1a, or memtest86+ 1.x ?? I've never
>>used any of the recently released versions.
>
>
> I'm using the most recently released version - I have the older 3.0
> version which I will shortly test to confirm/deny this!!!
>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 26, 2004 5:33:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:54:32 -0400, P2B wrote:

> Ixnei wrote:

<snip>

>> Evidently standby mode is entered 75% of the time in a short timecycle:
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=p2b+hardware+monitor+...
>>
>> I will try playing with disabling "green" power functionality in the BIOS.
>
> I can't find any evidence the information in that post is correct. I
> currently have a P2B-DS running on the bench with both CPU sensors
> shorted and reporting 130 degrees, and Sandra benchmarks running. The
> onboard speaker is emitting a constant tone, but apart from that I'm
> getting normal benchmark values and Task Manager is reporting 100% CPU
> utilisation while the benchmark is running.

It is true for the P2B v1.10 that I have - the P2B-DS bios must be
different enough that you do not see this throttling. Memtest reports the
memory bus bandwidth at ~60MB/s when it should be more like 240MB/s, and
the testing took 4 times longer than normal on a 64MB PC100 DIMM.

There are also plenty of posts about people who are having problems with
their P2B systems running terribly slow when the CPU temperature is maxed
(caused by short of thermistor pins). Hmm, maybe I can flash my P2B board
with the P2B-D bios (which may not have the "feature" the P2B-DS bios
seems to have) - I doubt it?!...

Certainly the bios would need to be coded differently for this particular
aspect, as there are two different thermistor signals which both need to
be looked at on the D boards.

<snip>

>> I'm using the most recently released version - I have the older 3.0
>> version which I will shortly test to confirm/deny this!!!

Same test #6 2% reboot results obtained using older v3.0, as expected.

--
We HAVE been at war with Iraq for 13 years now, bombing their
country on at least a weekly basis.
"U.S.-led sanctions have killed over a million Iraqi citizens,
according to UN studies" - James Jennings
3,000+ innocent Iraqi civilian casualties can't be "wrong"...
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 26, 2004 10:57:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Ixnei wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 00:20:04 +0200, Roland Scheidegger wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Ok, some update to this. I've soldered some caps to the back of the
>> slotket, pretty much following this guide here
>> (http://members.chello.nl/mgherard/html/photoshop.html) except of
>> course I've soldered the third capacitor to a different location.
>> But: no chage at all :-(. It still reboots at 2% in memtest test
>> #6. I've exchanged the cpu back to the celeron 850 (actually it's a
>> 566...) and it no longer crashes.
>
>
> Interesting, I'm still waiting on a soldering iron tip to get shipped
> to me before I can proceed (I don't want to hack it with my radio
> shack butane iron LOL)!
>
> I can't get my celeron 600/66 or 900/100 to work, but apparently
> these would work just fine in your board. Could this be inadequate
> capacitance or a capacitor wearout mechanism, similar to the blown
> caps problem?
I doubt that it's due to the vcore caps (the 600/66 is very modest
regarding power draw, you could probably remove half the capacitors and
it would still work fine), but it might be possible the adapter does a
bad job (there likely should be some (small) capacitors on the slotket
to improve HF performance). It could be due to improper buffering on the
vtt lane, again possibly because of the adapter (my adapter has some
100uF and some smaller caps on the vtt plane, not that it helps much...).

> I'm wondering if a "shotgun" (or "selective") replacement of the
> 1000/1500uF capacitors on the motherboard would help - my board has
> 22 1000uF 6.3V caps (3 Sanyo SE8N, 19 Rubycon YXG) and one 1500uF
> 6.3V cap (Sanyo S.E.8N). The Rubycon's seem pretty darned small for
> 1000uF caps (8x12, as opposed to 8x16+ for YXH series and most other
> switching caps), and it's not clear to me why the Sanyo caps are
> used (they are significantly "taller")...
>
> FWIW, CE3,18,27 are missing caps, and CE12 is drawn to 1500uF size on
> board, but using 1000uF. The Sanyo's are CE2,8,10,12. Does this
> look like what your board is populated with?
From my memory, that sounds about right - I know there were some
unpopulated places. I can take a closer look next weekend. If you want
to add additional capacitors, I'd definitely first start with adding to vtt.

>
> Sounds like a nice triggerable o-scope might help to indicate which
> voltage is going out of spec... I unfortunately am also lacking in
> good dmm/probes/scopes...
I could get access to a digital scope (only 20Mhz sampling frequency or
so though), but I'd rather avoid it (it's fun messing with hardware - up
to a certain point...).

> FYI, I had also tried the VIO setting higher, to no avail...
Forgot to mention, but I've also tried that without success.

Roland
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 27, 2004 12:39:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:57:31 +0200, Roland Scheidegger wrote:

> Ixnei wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 00:20:04 +0200, Roland Scheidegger wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Ok, some update to this. I've soldered some caps to the back of the
>>> slotket, pretty much following this guide here
>>> (http://members.chello.nl/mgherard/html/photoshop.html) except of
>>> course I've soldered the third capacitor to a different location. But:
>>> no chage at all :-(. It still reboots at 2% in memtest test #6. I've
>>> exchanged the cpu back to the celeron 850 (actually it's a
>>> 566...) and it no longer crashes.
>>
>> Interesting, I'm still waiting on a soldering iron tip to get shipped
>> to me before I can proceed (I don't want to hack it with my radio
>> shack butane iron LOL)!
>>
>> I can't get my celeron 600/66 or 900/100 to work, but apparently these
>> would work just fine in your board. Could this be inadequate
>> capacitance or a capacitor wearout mechanism, similar to the blown caps
>> problem?

> I doubt that it's due to the vcore caps (the 600/66 is very modest
> regarding power draw, you could probably remove half the capacitors and
> it would still work fine), but it might be possible the adapter does a
> bad job (there likely should be some (small) capacitors on the slotket
> to improve HF performance). It could be due to improper buffering on the
> vtt lane, again possibly because of the adapter (my adapter has some
> 100uF and some smaller caps on the vtt plane, not that it helps
> much...).

I've used this exact same mod on many other slot1 boards, without this
memtest reboot issue. I highly doubt that this P2B has some necessary
overvoltage protection that the other boards are lacking.

Here is a laundry list of boards I've personally tested with this
slotket/1.3 tualatin that loop for hours on memtest, and exhibit no other
instability problems (quake timedemo looping, cpuburn, OS, etc):
Abit BX6v1
Abit BX6v2
Asus P3C2000
MSI MS6119
Micronics Redstone

This reboot thing appears to me to be a peculiarity specific to the P2B
board. Perhaps it is just ever-so-slightly more sensitive, but like I
said, I've tested plenty of other different BX boards (and an i820)
without seeing this.

The mod I use follows:
ak4 to an11 - Vttpwrgd to Vtt
g35 to g37 - Vtt
isolate pins aj3, ak4, an3 - Disable Vss shorts

When I look at all these boards, the one thing that stands out to me is
that all other boards appear to be using bigger, beefier 1000uF 6.3V caps
- it's actually glaringly obvious. It almost seems to me like these
Rubycon caps are labelled wrong, as I can't find any switching caps with
such a small footprint (8x12)...

>> I'm wondering if a "shotgun" (or "selective") replacement of the
>> 1000/1500uF capacitors on the motherboard would help - my board has 22
>> 1000uF 6.3V caps (3 Sanyo SE8N, 19 Rubycon YXG) and one 1500uF 6.3V cap
>> (Sanyo S.E.8N). The Rubycon's seem pretty darned small for
>> 1000uF caps (8x12, as opposed to 8x16+ for YXH series and most other
>> switching caps), and it's not clear to me why the Sanyo caps are
>> used (they are significantly "taller")...
>>
>> FWIW, CE3,18,27 are missing caps, and CE12 is drawn to 1500uF size on
>> board, but using 1000uF. The Sanyo's are CE2,8,10,12. Does this
>> look like what your board is populated with?
>
> From my memory, that sounds about right - I know there were some
> unpopulated places. I can take a closer look next weekend. If you want
> to add additional capacitors, I'd definitely first start with adding to
> vtt.

I'd be interested to see if your board uses the same vendor mix/etc.

>> Sounds like a nice triggerable o-scope might help to indicate which
>> voltage is going out of spec... I unfortunately am also lacking in
>> good dmm/probes/scopes...
>
> I could get access to a digital scope (only 20Mhz sampling frequency or
> so though), but I'd rather avoid it (it's fun messing with hardware - up
> to a certain point...).

I remember about 15 years ago playing with an analog scope that had a
memory of sorts, and could store triggerable event traces. It was always
pretty time consuming getting this sort of "data"...

--
We HAVE been at war with Iraq for 13 years now, bombing their
country on at least a weekly basis.
"U.S.-led sanctions have killed over a million Iraqi citizens,
according to UN studies" - James Jennings
3,000+ innocent Iraqi civilian casualties can't be "wrong"...
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 27, 2004 6:41:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Ixnei wrote:
> I've used this exact same mod on many other slot1 boards, without
> this memtest reboot issue. I highly doubt that this P2B has some
> necessary overvoltage protection that the other boards are lacking.
>
> Here is a laundry list of boards I've personally tested with this
> slotket/1.3 tualatin that loop for hours on memtest, and exhibit no
> other instability problems (quake timedemo looping, cpuburn, OS,
> etc): Abit BX6v1 Abit BX6v2 Asus P3C2000 MSI MS6119 Micronics
> Redstone
>
> This reboot thing appears to me to be a peculiarity specific to the
> P2B board. Perhaps it is just ever-so-slightly more sensitive, but
> like I said, I've tested plenty of other different BX boards (and an
> i820) without seeing this.
It might not only be p2b specific, but p2b revision 1.10, and maybe not
even all boards (they don't use all the same voltage regulator, maybe
they other parts (like capacitors) aren't the same?)

> The mod I use follows: ak4 to an11 - Vttpwrgd to Vtt g35 to g37 - Vtt
> isolate pins aj3, ak4, an3 - Disable Vss shorts
>
> When I look at all these boards, the one thing that stands out to me
> is that all other boards appear to be using bigger, beefier 1000uF
> 6.3V caps - it's actually glaringly obvious. It almost seems to me
> like these Rubycon caps are labelled wrong, as I can't find any
> switching caps with such a small footprint (8x12)...
If the board would really lack capacitors, then certainly that
"photoshop mod" I've performed wouldn't help - that's good for improving
HF perfomance, but the capacitors I've used certainly couldn't
compensate for the lack of capacitance in the order of ~1000uF.
According to the rubycon website, the 8x11.5 YXG 6.3V parts are indeed
only 680uF, 8x16 YXG 6.3V would be 1000uF.

>>> I'm wondering if a "shotgun" (or "selective") replacement of the
>>> 1000/1500uF capacitors on the motherboard would help - my board
>>> has 22 1000uF 6.3V caps (3 Sanyo SE8N, 19 Rubycon YXG) and one
>>> 1500uF 6.3V cap (Sanyo S.E.8N). The Rubycon's seem pretty darned
>>> small for 1000uF caps (8x12, as opposed to 8x16+ for YXH series
>>> and most other switching caps), and it's not clear to me why the
>>> Sanyo caps are used (they are significantly "taller")...
>>>
>>> FWIW, CE3,18,27 are missing caps, and CE12 is drawn to 1500uF
>>> size on board, but using 1000uF. The Sanyo's are CE2,8,10,12.
>>> Does this look like what your board is populated with?
>>
>> From my memory, that sounds about right - I know there were some
>> unpopulated places. I can take a closer look next weekend. If you
>> want to add additional capacitors, I'd definitely first start with
>> adding to vtt.
>
>
> I'd be interested to see if your board uses the same vendor mix/etc.
Ok, I'll take a close look next weekend. It might be interesting to
figure out which ones are for vtt, which ones for vcore, though that
would probably be hard to figure out (measuring at the underside of the
motherboard). I'll assume your second half-dead p2b board has exactly
the same capacitors?
Now I just need to find some 1000uF low-ESR caps - I guess they can
easily be found on dead mobos ;-).

Roland
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 27, 2004 6:41:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Roland Scheidegger wrote:
> Ixnei wrote:
>
>> I've used this exact same mod on many other slot1 boards, without this
>> memtest reboot issue. I highly doubt that this P2B has some necessary
>> overvoltage protection that the other boards are lacking.
>>
>> Here is a laundry list of boards I've personally tested with this
>> slotket/1.3 tualatin that loop for hours on memtest, and exhibit no
>> other instability problems (quake timedemo looping, cpuburn, OS, etc):
>> Abit BX6v1 Abit BX6v2 Asus P3C2000 MSI MS6119 Micronics Redstone
>>
>> This reboot thing appears to me to be a peculiarity specific to the
>> P2B board. Perhaps it is just ever-so-slightly more sensitive, but
>> like I said, I've tested plenty of other different BX boards (and an
>> i820) without seeing this.
>
> It might not only be p2b specific, but p2b revision 1.10, and maybe not
> even all boards (they don't use all the same voltage regulator, maybe
> they other parts (like capacitors) aren't the same?)
>
>> The mod I use follows: ak4 to an11 - Vttpwrgd to Vtt g35 to g37 - Vtt
>> isolate pins aj3, ak4, an3 - Disable Vss shorts

Might be worth trying it without G35 to G37 - that's how I have my Asus
S370-DLs wired and they don't have this issue.

>> When I look at all these boards, the one thing that stands out to me
>> is that all other boards appear to be using bigger, beefier 1000uF
>> 6.3V caps - it's actually glaringly obvious. It almost seems to me
>> like these Rubycon caps are labelled wrong, as I can't find any
>> switching caps with such a small footprint (8x12)...
>
> If the board would really lack capacitors, then certainly that
> "photoshop mod" I've performed wouldn't help - that's good for improving
> HF perfomance, but the capacitors I've used certainly couldn't
> compensate for the lack of capacitance in the order of ~1000uF.
> According to the rubycon website, the 8x11.5 YXG 6.3V parts are indeed
> only 680uF, 8x16 YXG 6.3V would be 1000uF.

I rummaged through the inventory again looking at the capacitors...
interesting. Rubycon YXG 1000uF 6.3v 105C capacitors apparently come in
at least 3 sizes - 8x12, 8x16, and 8x21

The only vanilla P2Bs I have are rev. 1.02, but both have the capacitor
layout described previously - Rubycon 8x12 plus 3 8x21 Sanyos also
1000uF 6.3v.

The P2B-S/LS boards have a mix of Rubycon 8x12 and 8x21. Newer revisions
appear to use more 8x21.

The dual boards (P2B-D/DS) use a mix of 8x12 and 8x16, and again newer
revisions have more of the taller capacitors. P2B-D/DS 1.06 D03 (the
final revision) uses 8x16 exclusively.

>>>> I'm wondering if a "shotgun" (or "selective") replacement of the
>>>> 1000/1500uF capacitors on the motherboard would help - my board has
>>>> 22 1000uF 6.3V caps (3 Sanyo SE8N, 19 Rubycon YXG) and one 1500uF
>>>> 6.3V cap (Sanyo S.E.8N). The Rubycon's seem pretty darned
>>>> small for 1000uF caps (8x12, as opposed to 8x16+ for YXH series and
>>>> most other switching caps), and it's not clear to me why the Sanyo
>>>> caps are used (they are significantly "taller")...
>>>>
>>>> FWIW, CE3,18,27 are missing caps, and CE12 is drawn to 1500uF size
>>>> on board, but using 1000uF. The Sanyo's are CE2,8,10,12. Does this
>>>> look like what your board is populated with?
>>>
>>>
>>> From my memory, that sounds about right - I know there were some
>>> unpopulated places. I can take a closer look next weekend. If you
>>> want to add additional capacitors, I'd definitely first start with
>>> adding to vtt.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd be interested to see if your board uses the same vendor mix/etc.
>
> Ok, I'll take a close look next weekend. It might be interesting to
> figure out which ones are for vtt, which ones for vcore, though that
> would probably be hard to figure out (measuring at the underside of the
> motherboard). I'll assume your second half-dead p2b board has exactly
> the same capacitors?
> Now I just need to find some 1000uF low-ESR caps - I guess they can
> easily be found on dead mobos ;-).
>
> Roland
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 27, 2004 7:59:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:18:06 -0400, P2B wrote:

> Roland Scheidegger wrote:
>
>> Ixnei wrote:
>>
>>> I've used this exact same mod on many other slot1 boards, without this
>>> memtest reboot issue. I highly doubt that this P2B has some necessary
>>> overvoltage protection that the other boards are lacking.
>>>
>>> Here is a laundry list of boards I've personally tested with this
>>> slotket/1.3 tualatin that loop for hours on memtest, and exhibit no
>>> other instability problems (quake timedemo looping, cpuburn, OS, etc):
>>> Abit BX6v1 Abit BX6v2 Asus P3C2000 MSI MS6119 Micronics Redstone
>>>
>>> This reboot thing appears to me to be a peculiarity specific to the
>>> P2B board. Perhaps it is just ever-so-slightly more sensitive, but
>>> like I said, I've tested plenty of other different BX boards (and an
>>> i820) without seeing this.
>>
>> It might not only be p2b specific, but p2b revision 1.10, and maybe not
>> even all boards (they don't use all the same voltage regulator, maybe
>> they other parts (like capacitors) aren't the same?)
>>
>>> The mod I use follows: ak4 to an11 - Vttpwrgd to Vtt g35 to g37 - Vtt
>>> isolate pins aj3, ak4, an3 - Disable Vss shorts
>
> Might be worth trying it without G35 to G37 - that's how I have my Asus
> S370-DLs wired and they don't have this issue.

It appears that Roland is not using this one, but having the problem
still:

*****
On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:41:02 +0200, Roland Scheidegger wrote:

> ... In particular, quite a few people connected G35 (Vtt) to G37 (vtt
> only on tualatin) (which I didn't), ...
*****

>>> When I look at all these boards, the one thing that stands out to me
>>> is that all other boards appear to be using bigger, beefier 1000uF
>>> 6.3V caps - it's actually glaringly obvious. It almost seems to me
>>> like these Rubycon caps are labelled wrong, as I can't find any
>>> switching caps with such a small footprint (8x12)...
>>
>> If the board would really lack capacitors, then certainly that
>> "photoshop mod" I've performed wouldn't help - that's good for improving
>> HF perfomance, but the capacitors I've used certainly couldn't
>> compensate for the lack of capacitance in the order of ~1000uF.
>> According to the rubycon website, the 8x11.5 YXG 6.3V parts are indeed
>> only 680uF, 8x16 YXG 6.3V would be 1000uF.
>
> I rummaged through the inventory again looking at the capacitors...
> interesting. Rubycon YXG 1000uF 6.3v 105C capacitors apparently come in
> at least 3 sizes - 8x12, 8x16, and 8x21

I've seen that the larger capacitors for a given uF/V rating have lower
impedance, so perhaps these smaller ones simply have higher impedance
values. Not sure what the consequences of this would be, other than maybe
worse switching response at high frequencies (it's been a while since
my AC daze)...

> The only vanilla P2Bs I have are rev. 1.02, but both have the capacitor
> layout described previously - Rubycon 8x12 plus 3 8x21 Sanyos also
> 1000uF 6.3v.
>
> The P2B-S/LS boards have a mix of Rubycon 8x12 and 8x21. Newer revisions
> appear to use more 8x21.
>
> The dual boards (P2B-D/DS) use a mix of 8x12 and 8x16, and again newer
> revisions have more of the taller capacitors. P2B-D/DS 1.06 D03 (the
> final revision) uses 8x16 exclusively.

Interesting trend, there must have been some sort of reason for them to
use 'presumably' more expensive capacitors.

>>>>> I'm wondering if a "shotgun" (or "selective") replacement of the
>>>>> 1000/1500uF capacitors on the motherboard would help - my board has
>>>>> 22 1000uF 6.3V caps (3 Sanyo SE8N, 19 Rubycon YXG) and one 1500uF
>>>>> 6.3V cap (Sanyo S.E.8N). The Rubycon's seem pretty darned
>>>>> small for 1000uF caps (8x12, as opposed to 8x16+ for YXH series and
>>>>> most other switching caps), and it's not clear to me why the Sanyo
>>>>> caps are used (they are significantly "taller")...
>>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, CE3,18,27 are missing caps, and CE12 is drawn to 1500uF size
>>>>> on board, but using 1000uF. The Sanyo's are CE2,8,10,12. Does this
>>>>> look like what your board is populated with?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From my memory, that sounds about right - I know there were some
>>>> unpopulated places. I can take a closer look next weekend. If you
>>>> want to add additional capacitors, I'd definitely first start with
>>>> adding to vtt.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd be interested to see if your board uses the same vendor mix/etc.
>>
>> Ok, I'll take a close look next weekend. It might be interesting to
>> figure out which ones are for vtt, which ones for vcore, though that
>> would probably be hard to figure out (measuring at the underside of the
>> motherboard). I'll assume your second half-dead p2b board has exactly
>> the same capacitors?

Yes, they both have the same exact capacitor configuration, just the
brands of caps changed. The 3 tall sanyo 1000uF changed to rubycon, and
all the small caps are now "LXZ" (not sure of brand).

http://bertech.com/Components/chemi-con/miniradial/lxz_...

>> Now I just need to find some 1000uF low-ESR caps - I guess they can
>> easily be found on dead mobos ;-).

I personally prefer to use new capacitors, rather than those which have
been approaching the end of their useful lifetime. Most of these
capacitors are rated for lifetimes of 2-3,000 hours, which really isn't
that much "up-time" on a computer. The long-life ones maybe go out to
8,000 hours, which is just short of one year (at 24/7 'on'). I believe
the wearout mechanism is increased leakage, but I'm not positive (may
also be reduced capacitance, or increased impedance).

Based upon the recommendations of Homie Cap-Man, I have an inventory of
Nichicon PW series - they run about 33 cents each in lots of 100, from
digikey. I (plan to) use the 10V ones (once my soldering tips arrive).
I've already got plenty of ms6119 boards with blown caps - which,
coincidently have 3 oozing fat "blown" caps all in the same exact place on
the board (These boards were used with either P2-266 or P2-350 processors
only)...

--
We HAVE been at war with Iraq for 13 years now, bombing their
country on at least a weekly basis.
"U.S.-led sanctions have killed over a million Iraqi citizens,
according to UN studies" - James Jennings
3,000+ innocent Iraqi civilian casualties can't be "wrong"...
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 28, 2004 12:39:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Something interesting happened, just thought I should document it.

I tested an nvidia fx5200 128MB PCI video card in the P2B, running quake3
and 3dmark2k1 for benchmarks, which ran fine. I swapped my gf3 ti200 64MB
AGP card back in, and attempted to run 3dmark2k1, but it caused the system
to reset.

So, I swapped the fx5200 PCI in and ran memtest test #6, but it also
rebooted at 2%...

Not too sure it means anything, but just thought I'd write it down - so
3dmark2k1 may or may not exhibit the reboot problem for you.

--
We HAVE been at war with Iraq for 13 years now, bombing their
country on at least a weekly basis.
"U.S.-led sanctions have killed over a million Iraqi citizens,
according to UN studies" - James Jennings
3,000+ innocent Iraqi civilian casualties can't be "wrong"...
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 28, 2004 2:20:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Ixnei wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:18:06 -0400, P2B wrote:

[snip]

>>Might be worth trying it without G35 to G37 - that's how I have my Asus
>>S370-DLs wired and they don't have this issue.
>
>
> It appears that Roland is not using this one, but having the problem
> still:
>
> *****
> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:41:02 +0200, Roland Scheidegger wrote:
>
>
>>... In particular, quite a few people connected G35 (Vtt) to G37 (vtt
>>only on tualatin) (which I didn't), ...
>
> *****

Indeed, I didn't notice that until after I posted. My theories haven't
panned out too well so far :-(

At this point, IMHO it makes most sense to isolate the problem to the
board or slot adapter, by swapping in an adapter that's known not to
exhibit the problem - either a Slot-T or modded S370-DL. I have new
Slot-Ts in stock and would be happy to loan one or two if mailing costs
were covered.

>

[snip]

>>>Now I just need to find some 1000uF low-ESR caps - I guess they can
>>>easily be found on dead mobos ;-).
>
>
> I personally prefer to use new capacitors, rather than those which have
> been approaching the end of their useful lifetime. Most of these
> capacitors are rated for lifetimes of 2-3,000 hours, which really isn't
> that much "up-time" on a computer. The long-life ones maybe go out to
> 8,000 hours, which is just short of one year (at 24/7 'on'). I believe
> the wearout mechanism is increased leakage, but I'm not positive (may
> also be reduced capacitance, or increased impedance).

Absolutely agree, they are difficult to remove intact and not worth the
effort given new ones are economical. Used capacitors usually test at
significantly higher ESR than is specified on the datasheet.

Mind you, I have several P2B based systems which have run close to 24/7
for over 5 years with no sign of instability to date.

P2B
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 28, 2004 3:15:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Ixnei wrote:
> Something interesting happened, just thought I should document it.
>
> I tested an nvidia fx5200 128MB PCI video card in the P2B, running quake3
> and 3dmark2k1 for benchmarks, which ran fine. I swapped my gf3 ti200 64MB
> AGP card back in, and attempted to run 3dmark2k1, but it caused the system
> to reset.
>
> So, I swapped the fx5200 PCI in and ran memtest test #6, but it also
> rebooted at 2%...
>
> Not too sure it means anything, but just thought I'd write it down - so
> 3dmark2k1 may or may not exhibit the reboot problem for you.
I'm pretty sure I've run 3dmark01se before, but I'll try it again
(weekend).
You didn't forget to set AGP divider to 2/3 though (in case you've used
a 100Mhz FSB cpu)?
April 28, 2004 3:24:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

In article <pan.2004.04.27.04.12.51.749856@ixnei.ixnei>, Ixnei
<ixnei@ixnei.ixnei> wrote:

<<snip>>
> >>> When I look at all these boards, the one thing that stands out to me
> >>> is that all other boards appear to be using bigger, beefier 1000uF
> >>> 6.3V caps - it's actually glaringly obvious. It almost seems to me
> >>> like these Rubycon caps are labelled wrong, as I can't find any
> >>> switching caps with such a small footprint (8x12)...
> >>
> >> If the board would really lack capacitors, then certainly that
> >> "photoshop mod" I've performed wouldn't help - that's good for improving
> >> HF perfomance, but the capacitors I've used certainly couldn't
> >> compensate for the lack of capacitance in the order of ~1000uF.
> >> According to the rubycon website, the 8x11.5 YXG 6.3V parts are indeed
> >> only 680uF, 8x16 YXG 6.3V would be 1000uF.
> >
> > I rummaged through the inventory again looking at the capacitors...
> > interesting. Rubycon YXG 1000uF 6.3v 105C capacitors apparently come in
> > at least 3 sizes - 8x12, 8x16, and 8x21
>
> I've seen that the larger capacitors for a given uF/V rating have lower
> impedance, so perhaps these smaller ones simply have higher impedance
> values. Not sure what the consequences of this would be, other than maybe
> worse switching response at high frequencies (it's been a while since
> my AC daze)...

Check the datasheet for the 6019. It has some excellent hints
on what aspects of the design are important. For example, the PWM
section says:

"The bulk filter capacitor values are generally determined by
the ESR (effective series resistance) and ESL (effective
series inductance) parameters rather than actual capacitance."

Presumably the large number of caps is being used, to share the
ripple current flowing through the caps. Standard electrolytic
caps from many vendors have the same characteristics, and so the
size of a cap is a good indicator of its properties. Specialized
caps, like Sanyo OSCON (organic semiconductor ?) are many times
better at carrying ripple currents, and their size cannot be
directly compared to the standard composition caps.

Try to compare parameters for the old caps with the new, before
substituting them. And make sure you know which ones belong to
the PWM circuit, as opposed to the other circuits, as the rules
may be different for the other ones.

Something people don't realize, is too much output capacitance
on a regulator circuit can be just as bad as too little capacitance.
You can degrade the phase margin in the circuit by adding excessive
capacitance, and the regulator will oscillate when that happens.
A well spec'ed regulator circuit will actually come with
load curves, to tell you how much capacitance can be safely
added, before the regulator breaks into oscillations.

If the designers of the 6019 had put a latching fault pin per
power circuit, this problem would be easy to debug. Since the
only external indication is the one fault signal, the only way
to debug the circuit, is with a storage scope, triggered off
an edge of the fault signal.

HTH,
Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 28, 2004 6:12:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 23:15:34 +0200, Roland Scheidegger wrote:

> You didn't forget to set AGP divider to 2/3 though (in case you've used
> a 100Mhz FSB cpu)?

It's set at 2/3.

--
We HAVE been at war with Iraq for 13 years now, bombing their
country on at least a weekly basis.
"U.S.-led sanctions have killed over a million Iraqi citizens,
according to UN studies" - James Jennings
3,000+ innocent Iraqi civilian casualties can't be "wrong"...
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
April 28, 2004 8:31:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:20:10 -0400, P2B wrote:

> Ixnei wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:18:06 -0400, P2B wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>>Might be worth trying it without G35 to G37 - that's how I have my Asus
>>>S370-DLs wired and they don't have this issue.
>>
>>
>> It appears that Roland is not using this one, but having the problem
>> still:
>>
>> *****
>> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:41:02 +0200, Roland Scheidegger wrote:
>>
>>
>>>... In particular, quite a few people connected G35 (Vtt) to G37 (vtt
>>>only on tualatin) (which I didn't), ...
>>
>> *****
>
> Indeed, I didn't notice that until after I posted. My theories haven't
> panned out too well so far :-(
>
> At this point, IMHO it makes most sense to isolate the problem to the
> board or slot adapter, by swapping in an adapter that's known not to
> exhibit the problem - either a Slot-T or modded S370-DL. I have new
> Slot-Ts in stock and would be happy to loan one or two if mailing costs
> were covered.

Thanks for the offer. I've been tempted to just order on of these
slot-t's anyways, seeing as how they're only $25 shipped. That way, I
would have a nice "reference" to work with on these sorts of things.

<snip>

--
We HAVE been at war with Iraq for 13 years now, bombing their
country on at least a weekly basis.
"U.S.-led sanctions have killed over a million Iraqi citizens,
according to UN studies" - James Jennings
3,000+ innocent Iraqi civilian casualties can't be "wrong"...
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 4, 2004 2:56:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Ixnei wrote:
>>>I'm wondering if a "shotgun" (or "selective") replacement of the
>>>1000/1500uF capacitors on the motherboard would help - my board has 22
>>>1000uF 6.3V caps (3 Sanyo SE8N, 19 Rubycon YXG) and one 1500uF 6.3V cap
>>>(Sanyo S.E.8N). The Rubycon's seem pretty darned small for
>>> 1000uF caps (8x12, as opposed to 8x16+ for YXH series and most other
>>> switching caps), and it's not clear to me why the Sanyo caps are
>>>used (they are significantly "taller")...
>>>
>>>FWIW, CE3,18,27 are missing caps, and CE12 is drawn to 1500uF size on
>>> board, but using 1000uF. The Sanyo's are CE2,8,10,12. Does this
>>>look like what your board is populated with?
>>
>> From my memory, that sounds about right - I know there were some
>>unpopulated places. I can take a closer look next weekend. If you want
>>to add additional capacitors, I'd definitely first start with adding to
>>vtt.
>
>
> I'd be interested to see if your board uses the same vendor mix/etc.
I've checked it and it's exactly the same.
I've also looked at the coppermine - tualatin datasheets again. About
the only interesting thing I've found is that Vtt slew rate up to
coppermines was 8A/us, whereas on tualatins it's 13A/us, though the
static current has not increased. That could be problematic, though
adding the small caps (for improving HF performance) I've done should
have helped in that case I guess, and since you also get the problem
with coppermines I don't know if this really could be a problem.
Also, I did not need to connect G35-G37, since the slotket already
connects this (even visible).
I've also found a potentially very problematic pin, X34 - this is
vcccore on mendocinos and (some) coppermines (and it's wired to vcccore
on the soltek sl-02a++), but Vtt on tualatins. However, it doesn't seem
to be used on the tualatin (at least not on the stepping I got),
according to the multimeter at least it doesn't seem to be connected.
I've isolated it just in case without any change, so I did to AF36.
Soldering a 15Ohm resistor to NCHCTRL (N37) to Vtt also didn't do
anything (hey I'm getting desperate).
I was unable to get any replacement capacitors for now, if I'd be
convinced that it really would help I'm sure I could find some shop
which has them (I only found rubycon zl 10V parts as the closest match,
but the 1000uF part is 10mm in diameter and thus not suitable for
replacing the 8mm parts).
I could still try lowering vtt voltage, but somehow I'm not confident it
would help.

:-(

Roland
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 4, 2004 11:09:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

On Mon, 03 May 2004 22:56:51 +0200, Roland Scheidegger wrote:

> I was unable to get any replacement capacitors for now, if I'd be
> convinced that it really would help I'm sure I could find some shop
> which has them (I only found rubycon zl 10V parts as the closest match,
> but the 1000uF part is 10mm in diameter and thus not suitable for
> replacing the 8mm parts). I could still try lowering vtt voltage, but
> somehow I'm not confident it would help.
>
> :-(
>
> Roland

Just out of curiousity, what video card are you using with your setup?
Also, did you happen to run 3dmark2001?

FYI, test #15 (advanced pixel shader?, where it rebooted on me) is not
performed on older video cards like the geforce2 gts. So if I had used
one of my GF2's instead of a GF3, I wouldn't have gotten a reboot...

I know this is a triviality, as memtest can be used as a signal for the
problem, but ... I may bite the bullet and just swap out the $5 or so
worth of caps on this board. I will add a 1000uF where there is one
missing by the slot1 (CE3), maybe the same for the cap missing next to the
DIMM slots (CE27), and I will also increase the 1000uF cap to 1500uF where
the board indicates a larger drawn (CE12). Will post back later if/when I
do this, and results...

As an aside, I had a DFI AK74-EC socket-462 board with 2 of 3 1000uF caps
near the SDRAM DIMM slots clearly "blown" (bulging). This board would not
even POST with memory in DIMM 1 or 3. It would post from DIMM 2 and
passed memtest on 32MB, but anything bigger and it would fail many tests
misrably. I replaced the two caps, and was able to POST off of DIMM 1
using a 256MB stick, so I am encouraged by this capacitor modding (at
least in the extremes of obviously bad caps)...

--
We HAVE been at war with Iraq for 13 years now, bombing their
country on at least a weekly basis.
"U.S.-led sanctions have killed over a million Iraqi citizens,
according to UN studies" - James Jennings
3,000+ innocent Iraqi civilian casualties can't be "wrong"...
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 4, 2004 10:49:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Ixnei wrote:

> On Mon, 03 May 2004 22:56:51 +0200, Roland Scheidegger wrote:
>
>
>>I was unable to get any replacement capacitors for now, if I'd be
>>convinced that it really would help I'm sure I could find some shop
>>which has them (I only found rubycon zl 10V parts as the closest match,
>>but the 1000uF part is 10mm in diameter and thus not suitable for
>>replacing the 8mm parts). I could still try lowering vtt voltage, but
>>somehow I'm not confident it would help.
>>
>>:-(
>>
>>Roland
>
>
> Just out of curiousity, what video card are you using with your setup?
> Also, did you happen to run 3dmark2001?
>
> FYI, test #15 (advanced pixel shader?, where it rebooted on me) is not
> performed on older video cards like the geforce2 gts. So if I had used
> one of my GF2's instead of a GF3, I wouldn't have gotten a reboot...
>
> I know this is a triviality, as memtest can be used as a signal for the
> problem, but ... I may bite the bullet and just swap out the $5 or so
> worth of caps on this board. I will add a 1000uF where there is one
> missing by the slot1 (CE3), maybe the same for the cap missing next to the
> DIMM slots (CE27), and I will also increase the 1000uF cap to 1500uF where
> the board indicates a larger drawn (CE12). Will post back later if/when I
> do this, and results...

I'll wager a Slot-T against a P2B v1.10 it won't make a difference ;-)

P2B
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
June 11, 2004 8:43:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 12:06:35 -0400, sven-ola wrote:

> Hi,
>
> just to drop in a few lines: I have the same problem - and of course
> I'am
> interested if fiddeling around with capacitors will solve it.
>
> Board: Asus P2B (No further letters)
> Rev.: 1.10
> Cpu: PIII-800 (Copper, 100Mhz FSB, 1,65 V) OS: Linux with Kernel 2.2.14
> (Uptime > 2 Years now) VReg: HIP6019BCB Mem: Just upgraded from 2*64K ->
> 2*128K 100Mhz SRAM Cards: ELSA Winner 1000 VGA, SCSI, ISDN, Network, 2nd
> Printer
>
> (Because of the memory upgrade, I run in the memtest prob.)

What type of processor are you using? Is it a true slot1 processor, or a
socket 370 in a slotket? What slotket?

I was having the memtest test #6 problem with a coppermine celeron 900/100
and 600/66 running 256MB ram, both in a 370SPC v1.0 slocket. I managed to
pick up an Asus S370-DL rev 1.02 slotket, and it ran a coppermine celeron
1100/100 with 512MB on the P2B rev 1.10, passing memtest looping for hours
(with fastest CL2 memory timings).

So, there does appear to be a marginality created by the quality of
slotket used. I ended up dumping the board for $25, and moved on
already...

--
We HAVE been at war with Iraq for 14 years now, bombing their
country on at least a weekly basis.
"U.S.-led sanctions have killed over a million Iraqi citizens,
according to UN studies" - James Jennings
3,000+ innocent Iraqi civilian casualties can't be "wrong"...
!