Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (
More info?)
Paul,
thanks for all your insight and thoughts. I guess it all boils down to my
vision of a neat living room multimedia machine VS the cost/problems of this
vision.
Perhaps the idea of simply "hiding" it is okay, though hardly a professional
solution ! ;-).. But any ways, in the end the most important thing is simply
that it is noiseless.
thanks,
Jorgen, Copenhagen
"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-2305040240370001@192.168.1.177...
> In article <ZHErc.532$5U3.424@news.get2net.dk>, "Jorgen [2400]"
> <popdreng_væk@popfyr.dk_> wrote:
>
>> for example, im looking at these cases
>>
>> AOpen H 340H = 200 watts
>> Antec LifeStyle Minuet = 220 Watts
>> AOpen H 360A = 250 Watts
>>
>> but I've had one bad experience with a PSU burning out on my previous
>> system.
>>
>> - jorgen
>
> It takes a lot of work to engineer a small system. The smaller the case,
> the harder it is to balance power dissipation, noise, and performance.
>
> In terms of raw power, 250 watts of power is enough to power a pretty
> impressive system. The trick is, the power has to be in the right place,
> to prevent overloading any one output. A P4 system powers the processor
> from +12V, as do some of the current Athlon64 class systems. Boards
> with AthlonXP (socket 462) tend to draw power from +5V, rather than +12V.
> One hint of this, is the presence of the 2x2 ATX12V power connector.
> Since the ATX 20pin power connector has only one +12V pin, and a pin
> is limited to 6 amps of current, 72W at 80% efficiency, or 57.2W isn't
> enough power for a lot of processors. That is why, either a 2x2 connector
> is used, with two more +12V pins, or the designers use +5V and its
> multiple
> pins, to draw the power.
>
> What this means, is you should be shopping for a different 250W supply,
> depending on whether the motherboard seeks its power from +5 or +12.
> Also, if you insist on using a high end video card, ATI9800/FX5900 class
> cards draw 5V@10A and 12V@2A while doing 3D gaming. So, that is also a
> major consumer of power, and has to be accounted for.
>
> Power numbers are hard to get, as I discovered when I visited the
> Shuttle web site. Shuttle makes small systems that are suited for
> what you want to do, but I couldn't find specs for the power supply
> used in the AMD and P4 systems. Both of the example systems below have
> 250W power supplies, but it is possible they have different limits on
> their 3.3, 5.0, and +12V outputs. Here are the example systems:
>
>
http://www.shuttle.com/hq/product/product_b_intel.asp
>
http://www.shuttle.com/hq/product/product_b_amd.asp
>
ftp://ftp.shuttle.com/Manuals/en/fb61/fb61v3en.zip (P4/865 graphics)
>
ftp://ftp.shuttle.com/Manuals/en/fn41/fn41v3en.zip (AthlonXP/Nforce2 IGP)
>
> I don't see a video output on those machines, so a cheap low end video
> card would be a minimum extra purchase.
>
> The systems intended for multimedia use, generally have power
> specs, and make it easier to engineer. That Ibase system based
> on the ATI RS300 chipset, has numbers like:
>
> Power Consumption
> Pentium 4 2.4GHz (512KB) with 256MB DDR memory
> +5V: 3.29A; +12V: 4.83A
>
> Pentium 4 3.06GHz (512KB) with 512MB DDR memory
> +5V: 3.17A; +12V: 7.14A
>
> If you use a decent size case, like a mid sized ATX, you can stick a
> bigger power supply in it, or add case fans, and you have room to work.
> The smaller the case, the harder it is to work in there, there are
> fewer powering options (like the 250W limit), power budgeting must
> be done more precisely, and so on. Even then, a small case solution
> may be noisier than you expected. There are limits as to how much power
> should be dissipated in a small volume, and many users complain about
> overheating or noise on their small systems.
>
> You could shop for Mobile processors, as the Athlon comes in a mobile
> version, as do some Pentiums. The problem here is, certain ingredients
> may be missing from a desktop chipset/motherboard that would make it
> easier to work with them. For example, "LarsJ" just finished modding
> an A7V8X, so the voltage regulator VID pins could be programmed for
> the lower voltage of a Mobile Athlon. This was needed, because Asus
> has a policy of not allowing undervolting in their products (why,
> escapes me, because if a board didn't start with a low setting, you
> could always clear CMOS and try again). Many Athlon boards are adjustable
> from 1.65 to 1.85, and to get the cool benefits of a Mobile processor,
> requires lower voltages than that. LarsJ used the relatively safe
> mod, of programming the five VID pins on the regulator with wires, to
> get what he wanted.
>
> Similarly, there can be multiplier issues with certain chipsets
> or motherboard implementations, that would require bridge painting
> or socket modding for a Mobile Athlon (only if you want to adjust
> the multiplier). So, to get the range of features you want, can
> sometimes mean doing some modding.
>
> I spent about a month of spare time, trying to plan for such a
> small system, and in the end, I gave up, simply because the project
> was becoming too expensive. (The vendors of such small systems tend
> to charge a premium for them, all sorts of hidden costs, like the
> fee they tried to charge me for shipping.) I think it is easier to
> go with a standard sized PC and hide it in the room somewhere. If things
> go wrong, it is easier to buy replacement parts to fix it up. On a
> small system, one mistake might mean buying another case/motherboard
> etc.
>
> HTH,
> Paul
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