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P4P800-E Deluxe and odd video problem

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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 2, 2004 12:30:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hi,

I just assembled a new system:

P4P800-E Deluxe
P4 3.0
2GB RAM
WD 120GB SATA drive
CD-RW/DVD

When I first assembled the system, I put a Diamond ATI Radeon 7000 AGP video
card in. It worked perfectly. I have just exchanged the 7000 for a Matrox
G450 AGP card. For some reason, I'm now getting a slight flicker. I have
installed the most current Matrox driver and am using the same resolution,
color depth and refresh rate that I was using on my previous PC with the
same Matrox G450 card.

At the same time I switched the video cards, I switch the Logitech mouse
from PS/2 to USB. I can't imagine that would make a difference... would it?

Are there any setting in the P4P800-E Deluxe BIOS that might be causing
this? I am using the most recent BIOS v.1002.

John
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 2, 2004 2:27:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Further information....

I now notice that I can "force" the flicker by moving the mouse over a web
page full of links. As the pointer passes quickly over the links, there is
a very subtle flicker that occurs and stops the moment the mouse stops
moving. Any ideas what this is about?

John



"John Blaustein" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:o JWdnfOx5qdoS3nd4p2dnA@lmi.net...
> Hi,
>
> I just assembled a new system:
>
> P4P800-E Deluxe
> P4 3.0
> 2GB RAM
> WD 120GB SATA drive
> CD-RW/DVD
>
> When I first assembled the system, I put a Diamond ATI Radeon 7000 AGP
video
> card in. It worked perfectly. I have just exchanged the 7000 for a
Matrox
> G450 AGP card. For some reason, I'm now getting a slight flicker. I have
> installed the most current Matrox driver and am using the same resolution,
> color depth and refresh rate that I was using on my previous PC with the
> same Matrox G450 card.
>
> At the same time I switched the video cards, I switch the Logitech mouse
> from PS/2 to USB. I can't imagine that would make a difference... would
it?
>
> Are there any setting in the P4P800-E Deluxe BIOS that might be causing
> this? I am using the most recent BIOS v.1002.
>
> John
>
>
July 2, 2004 6:40:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <BI2dnXnJoNmxb3ndRVn-gw@lmi.net>, "John Blaustein"
<nomail@nomail.com> wrote:

> Further information....
>
> I now notice that I can "force" the flicker by moving the mouse over a web
> page full of links. As the pointer passes quickly over the links, there is
> a very subtle flicker that occurs and stops the moment the mouse stops
> moving. Any ideas what this is about?
>
> John
>
Well, looking in the IRQ table, shows the video card has its own
private interrupt signal. So, I cannot make a theory where a USB
interrupt delays video servicing.

First of all, did you uninstall the ATI video card drivers, before
changing video cards ? Then install the Matrox drivers ?

One thing I noticed with my G200 when I was still using it, was
that the latest Matrox drivers, while sporting a lot more
functionality, was also eating considerable system resources.
The driver seemed slower than the first stable one I managed
to find when the card was new, and screen updates were a bit
slower than normal.

Based on that observation, see if you can dig up a driver from
around the time the card was introduced. Maybe it will be
missing OpenGL or something, but it might behave better
in the desktop.

Generally video cards have hardware support for the cursor, and
maybe what you are seeing, is the changing of the pixmap for the
cursor, as it passes over the links. Normally, you would think
this would be changed during the vertical blanking interval, so
the change would be invisible. I wonder if the card simply doesn't
know when it is painting the screen ? I've never heard of
configuration options for 2D operation of a video card, but if
that existed somewhere, it would make interesting reading.

If you have a utility somewhere, check to see what AGP rate the
card is running at. Maybe it is doing AGP 1X (a.k.a PCI mode) ?
Get a copy of Powerstrip from entechtaiwan.com, and use the
taskbar popup menu item "Options" to see what settings the video
card is using. You could also run "dxdiag" from your DirectX
install, to see if all video card features are enabled.

HTH,
Paul

>
>
> "John Blaustein" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
> news:o JWdnfOx5qdoS3nd4p2dnA@lmi.net...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just assembled a new system:
> >
> > P4P800-E Deluxe
> > P4 3.0
> > 2GB RAM
> > WD 120GB SATA drive
> > CD-RW/DVD
> >
> > When I first assembled the system, I put a Diamond ATI Radeon 7000 AGP
> video
> > card in. It worked perfectly. I have just exchanged the 7000 for a
> Matrox
> > G450 AGP card. For some reason, I'm now getting a slight flicker. I have
> > installed the most current Matrox driver and am using the same resolution,
> > color depth and refresh rate that I was using on my previous PC with the
> > same Matrox G450 card.
> >
> > At the same time I switched the video cards, I switch the Logitech mouse
> > from PS/2 to USB. I can't imagine that would make a difference... would
> it?
> >
> > Are there any setting in the P4P800-E Deluxe BIOS that might be causing
> > this? I am using the most recent BIOS v.1002.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
Related resources
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 2, 2004 11:58:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Paul,

I looked at the Matrox support forum and I see that others are having the
same problem with the G450 and G550. The Matrox tech suggests reducing
hardware acceleration, trying different drivers, turning off
Hyper-Threading, etc., but I tried all those and nothing changed. I looked
at the forum late last night and "gave up," but I'll do some more research
there today.

See comments inline below...

> Well, looking in the IRQ table, shows the video card has its own
> private interrupt signal. So, I cannot make a theory where a USB
> interrupt delays video servicing.

I don't think it's the mouse and USB or PS/2.

> First of all, did you uninstall the ATI video card drivers, before
> changing video cards ? Then install the Matrox drivers ?

Actually, I never installed the ATI driver. I just used the XP driver that
was installed when I did my fresh XP install. When I was removing the
Radeon card, I removed it from Device Mgr just before turning the PC off.
Then I installed the G450 and powered up.

> One thing I noticed with my G200 when I was still using it, was
> that the latest Matrox drivers, while sporting a lot more
> functionality, was also eating considerable system resources.
> The driver seemed slower than the first stable one I managed
> to find when the card was new, and screen updates were a bit
> slower than normal.

Speed doesn't seem to be the issue.

> Based on that observation, see if you can dig up a driver from
> around the time the card was introduced. Maybe it will be
> missing OpenGL or something, but it might behave better
> in the desktop.

I tried the XP driver and it does the same thing. On the Matrox forum,
others tried earlier drivers without success.

> Generally video cards have hardware support for the cursor, and
> maybe what you are seeing, is the changing of the pixmap for the
> cursor, as it passes over the links. Normally, you would think
> this would be changed during the vertical blanking interval, so
> the change would be invisible. I wonder if the card simply doesn't
> know when it is painting the screen ? I've never heard of
> configuration options for 2D operation of a video card, but if
> that existed somewhere, it would make interesting reading.
>
> If you have a utility somewhere, check to see what AGP rate the
> card is running at. Maybe it is doing AGP 1X (a.k.a PCI mode) ?
> Get a copy of Powerstrip from entechtaiwan.com, and use the
> taskbar popup menu item "Options" to see what settings the video
> card is using. You could also run "dxdiag" from your DirectX
> install, to see if all video card features are enabled.

OK... I'll do that.

Paul.... I really appreciate all the help you've given me (my thread
"Building my own PC -- hardware advice needed" and others). You give a lot
of your time... thanks so much.

John
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 2, 2004 12:22:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Paul...

One solution, perhaps the easiest, is to use the Diamond Stealth S60 (ATI
Radeon 7000) card on my new machine. It worked fine, even with the XP
driver. I do no gaming, so 3D isn't an issue. My use of the PC is
Photoshop, MS Office, Quicken, etc. I had the Matrox G450 for dual monitor
support, but now I don't use that feature. I am using dual monitors, but I
had to install a second PCI card for the second monitor because I use
hardware/software to calibrate and profile the monitor for accurate color
management, and that software won't work unless both monitors have their own
video card. (I have not installed the second card into the new machine yet,
but it worked fine in my old machine.)

I'm not sure the Radeon 7000 is as good a card as the G450, but it may be
fine for my purposes. The G450 worked fine in my old machine -- ASUS
CUV4X-E, P3 1Ghz. I'm no expert on this stuff, but I have to say I was
startled when I realized I had this problem with my new MoBo since the G450
worked so well with the old one.

John
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 2, 2004 1:23:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Paul,

All DirectX tests completed without problems and all features on video card
are enabled. Further reading on the Matrox forum suggests this is a Matrox
problem with some ASUS (and other?) motherboards.

John



DXDIAG shows the following:

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 7/2/2004, 08:52:02
Machine name: JOHN-P4
Operating System: Windows XP Home Edition (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack
1 (2600.xpsp2.030422-1633)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: To Be Filled By O.E.M.
System Model: To Be Filled By O.E.M.
BIOS: BIOS Date: 02/25/04 11:27:43 Ver: 08.00.09
Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 2048MB RAM
Page File: 151MB used, 3792MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0b (4.09.0000.0902)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 5.03.0001.0902 32bit Unicode

------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
DirectX Files Tab: No problems found.
Display Tab 1: No problems found. DirectDraw test results: All tests
were successful. Direct3D 7 test results: The tests were cancelled before
completing. Direct3D 8 test results: The tests were cancelled before
completing. Direct3D 9 test results: The tests were cancelled before
completing.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Music Tab: No problems found.
Input Tab: No problems found.
Network Tab: No problems found. DirectPlay test results: The tests
were cancelled before completing.

--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D: 0/4 (n/a)
DirectDraw: 0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (n/a)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (n/a)
DirectPlay: 0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow: 0/6 (retail)

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: Matrox Millennium G450 DualHead - English
Manufacturer: Matrox Graphics Inc.
Chip type: Matrox G450
DAC type: Integrated, 360 MHz
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_102B&DEV_0525&SUBSYS_0641102B&REV_82
Display Memory: 32.0 MB
Current Mode: 1152 x 864 (32 bit) (85Hz)
Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
Monitor Max Res: 1600,1200
Driver Name: G400DHD.dll
Driver Version: 6.12.0001.1920 (English)
DDI Version: 7
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 1/26/2004 13:47:06, 2390144 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
VDD: n/a
Mini VDD: g400dhm.sys
Mini VDD Date: 1/26/2004 13:48:12, 343552 bytes
Device Identifier: {D7B71ECB-4665-11CF-1B74-402621C2CB35}
Vendor ID: 0x102B
Device ID: 0x0525
SubSys ID: 0x0641102B
Revision ID: 0x0082
Revision ID: 0x0082
Video Accel:
Deinterlace Caps: n/a
Registry: OK
DDraw Status: Enabled
D3D Status: Enabled
AGP Status: Enabled
DDraw Test Result: All tests were successful.
D3D7 Test Result: The tests were cancelled before completing.
D3D8 Test Result: The tests were cancelled before completing.
D3D9 Test Result: The tests were cancelled before completing.
July 2, 2004 5:17:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <w9Cdne3rKctyFnjdRVn-sA@lmi.net>, "John Blaustein"
<nomail@nomail.com> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> All DirectX tests completed without problems and all features on video card
> are enabled. Further reading on the Matrox forum suggests this is a Matrox
> problem with some ASUS (and other?) motherboards.
>
> John
>
>
>
> DXDIAG shows the following:
<<snip>>

To find some old drivers, I tried the following:

web.archive.org contains snapshots of popular web sites.
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.matrox.com

Step back a bit, like here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20020805121329/www.matrox.co...

Then, using the URL for the driver download today, glue that onto the
end of the URL, and end up here. There is a link on this page, for the
5.72 version of the driver for the G450.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020805121329/www.matrox.co...

Uninstall your current driver and give this a try.

http://www.matrox.com/mga/support/drivers/files/w2k_572...

HTH,
Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 2, 2004 5:17:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Thanks, Paul.

OK, I've now tried all of the following:

Windows XP Home driver
2kxp_592_006
w2k_582
w2k_572

All drivers produce the flickering!

While I hesitate to do so, I think I will put the Diamond Stealth S60 ATI
Radeon 7000 card back into the new system and use the Matrox card in the old
system. For 2D works -- Photoshop in particular -- the Radeon 7000 may be
just fine. Do you know anything about the Radeon 7000? Do you think it's
adequate for my needs?

If the 7000 isn't adequate, I may need to buy another card. Any suggestions
on a good card that you know works well with the P4P800-E Deluxe? As I
mentioned, I don't need games and heavy-duty 3D video, just excellent
quality 2D.

John


"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-0207041318400001@192.168.1.177...
> In article <w9Cdne3rKctyFnjdRVn-sA@lmi.net>, "John Blaustein"
> <nomail@nomail.com> wrote:
>
> > Paul,
> >
> > All DirectX tests completed without problems and all features on video
card
> > are enabled. Further reading on the Matrox forum suggests this is a
Matrox
> > problem with some ASUS (and other?) motherboards.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > DXDIAG shows the following:
> <<snip>>
>
> To find some old drivers, I tried the following:
>
> web.archive.org contains snapshots of popular web sites.
> http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.matrox.com
>
> Step back a bit, like here:
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20020805121329/www.matrox.co...
>
> Then, using the URL for the driver download today, glue that onto the
> end of the URL, and end up here. There is a link on this page, for the
> 5.72 version of the driver for the G450.
>
>
http://web.archive.org/web/20020805121329/www.matrox.co...
>
> Uninstall your current driver and give this a try.
>
> http://www.matrox.com/mga/support/drivers/files/w2k_572...
>
> HTH,
> Paul
July 3, 2004 4:44:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <jtCdnSdJ9_DVNXjdRVn-hQ@lmi.net>, "John Blaustein"
<nomail@nomail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Paul.
>
> OK, I've now tried all of the following:
>
> Windows XP Home driver
> 2kxp_592_006
> w2k_582
> w2k_572
>
> All drivers produce the flickering!
>
> While I hesitate to do so, I think I will put the Diamond Stealth S60 ATI
> Radeon 7000 card back into the new system and use the Matrox card in the old
> system. For 2D works -- Photoshop in particular -- the Radeon 7000 may be
> just fine. Do you know anything about the Radeon 7000? Do you think it's
> adequate for my needs?
>
> If the 7000 isn't adequate, I may need to buy another card. Any suggestions
> on a good card that you know works well with the P4P800-E Deluxe? As I
> mentioned, I don't need games and heavy-duty 3D video, just excellent
> quality 2D.
>
> John

Video cards have a 2D and a 3D portion to them. We spend the big bucks
to get enhanced 3D performance, but the 2D part of the cards, for the
most part, hasn't changed in years. In that sense, any modern card with
a working AGP interface is going to work for you. (A PCI video card
might be perceived as too slow at screen updates, when handling large
bitmaps.) As I'm not a dedicated Photoshop user, it would be unfair
for me to suggest a card, as there can be tiny differences between
them that annoy professional users.

If you have a color calibration system and a good CRT monitor, then
you can probably calibrate out any color issues. (Calibrator, as in one
of those devices that you hold up to the CRT, to calibrate the color
response.)

Other than that, video cards have some differences between them, as
to how sharp they are at high resolution. You could try Google on
the name or model number of what you plan on using, combined with the
word "fuzzy", to see if the card you are interested in is a dud
or not. Some cards in fact don't have bad video chips - they have
too much filtering of the output just before it goes to the VGA
connector. Some of those cards can be fixed by removing the filter
caps from the PI filters near the connector. The filters are
distinguishable by the fact there are three color channels, so you
see three groups of identical components near the VGA connector
on the video card. People used to care about this in years past,
and there used to be recipes for removing the caps by snipping
them (yuck!). It is a wonder the video cards weren't damaged by
that.

Too bad the flicker cannot be stopped on your Matrox. Have you
tried disabling all hardware acceleration ? There is a slider to
do that, and maybe with all acceleration disabled, it will stop
flickering.

HTH,
Paul

<<snip>>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 3, 2004 4:44:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Paul,

See below...

> Video cards have a 2D and a 3D portion to them. We spend the big bucks
> to get enhanced 3D performance, but the 2D part of the cards, for the
> most part, hasn't changed in years. In that sense, any modern card with
> a working AGP interface is going to work for you. (A PCI video card
> might be perceived as too slow at screen updates, when handling large
> bitmaps.) As I'm not a dedicated Photoshop user, it would be unfair
> for me to suggest a card, as there can be tiny differences between
> them that annoy professional users.

Yes, I understand that about 3D vs. 2D, which is why I don't see the need
for an expensive card.

I've switched cards -- the Radeon 7000 is back in the new system. No
flicker, needle sharp text and images, immediate redraw, passes all DXDIAG
tests. I'm going to stick with it for a while and see how it goes.

> If you have a color calibration system and a good CRT monitor, then
> you can probably calibrate out any color issues. (Calibrator, as in one
> of those devices that you hold up to the CRT, to calibrate the color
> response.)

Yes, I use a color calibration system -- ColorVision's OptiCAL with Spyder
(the device you stick on the monitor to read the color). I use a good Sony
21" monitor. I haven't loaded OptiCAL on the new system yet, but will in
the next few days. I also will install a second video card -- inexpensive
PCI card to run a second monitor for Photoshop use -- you put the image on
the main monitor all the palettes (controls) on the second monitor. It's a
great way to work. (I'm a photographer, so I spend a lot of time using PS.)

I'm assuming OptiCAL will "do its thing" with the Radeon card, but until I
install OptiCAL and run the calibration and profiling software, I won't be
sure the Radeon is the best solution. There is no reason it shouldn't work,
but you know how that goes.

> Other than that, video cards have some differences between them, as
> to how sharp they are at high resolution. You could try Google on
> the name or model number of what you plan on using, combined with the
> word "fuzzy", to see if the card you are interested in is a dud
> or not. Some cards in fact don't have bad video chips - they have
> too much filtering of the output just before it goes to the VGA
> connector. Some of those cards can be fixed by removing the filter
> caps from the PI filters near the connector. The filters are
> distinguishable by the fact there are three color channels, so you
> see three groups of identical components near the VGA connector
> on the video card. People used to care about this in years past,
> and there used to be recipes for removing the caps by snipping
> them (yuck!). It is a wonder the video cards weren't damaged by
> that.

I'm not inclined to start snipping things off of video cards, but I'll have
a look!

> Too bad the flicker cannot be stopped on your Matrox. Have you
> tried disabling all hardware acceleration ? There is a slider to
> do that, and maybe with all acceleration disabled, it will stop
> flickering.

Yes, I tried disabling hardware acceleration, disabling hyper-threading,
trying different resolutions and refresh rates, but nothing made the flicker
go away. One interesting thing is a fellow-photographer I met on the
Photoshop newsgroup has the same mobo as I do and he uses a Matrox G550
(mine is the G450, but virtually identical), and he doesn't have the
flicker. Go figure. He e-mailed me that he has a G450 he's not using and
offered to send it to me just to test. Even though the Radeon is working
now, I may have him send the card. I sure would like to find out that my
G450 is defective, rather than conclude that there is something wrong with
my mobo. It's all perplexing since the G450 should work just fine with the
P4P. Oh well.

In the installation guide for the Radeon card, it says that prior to
installing the card, the AGP aperture size should be set to 1/4 the size of
the memory on the card. I found the AGP aperture setting in BIOS and it's
at 64. I left it there and the Radeon is working fine. I'm curious what
that setting does. Do you know? The Radeon has 32MB on it, so that would
suggest I set the AGP aperture to 8MB. What do you think?

John
July 3, 2004 8:43:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <wKydnffsnpPD13vdRVn-vg@lmi.net>, "John Blaustein"
<nomail@nomail.com> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> See below...
>
> > Video cards have a 2D and a 3D portion to them. We spend the big bucks
> > to get enhanced 3D performance, but the 2D part of the cards, for the
> > most part, hasn't changed in years. In that sense, any modern card with
> > a working AGP interface is going to work for you. (A PCI video card
> > might be perceived as too slow at screen updates, when handling large
> > bitmaps.) As I'm not a dedicated Photoshop user, it would be unfair
> > for me to suggest a card, as there can be tiny differences between
> > them that annoy professional users.
>
> Yes, I understand that about 3D vs. 2D, which is why I don't see the need
> for an expensive card.
>
> I've switched cards -- the Radeon 7000 is back in the new system. No
> flicker, needle sharp text and images, immediate redraw, passes all DXDIAG
> tests. I'm going to stick with it for a while and see how it goes.
>
> > If you have a color calibration system and a good CRT monitor, then
> > you can probably calibrate out any color issues. (Calibrator, as in one
> > of those devices that you hold up to the CRT, to calibrate the color
> > response.)
>
> Yes, I use a color calibration system -- ColorVision's OptiCAL with Spyder
> (the device you stick on the monitor to read the color). I use a good Sony
> 21" monitor. I haven't loaded OptiCAL on the new system yet, but will in
> the next few days. I also will install a second video card -- inexpensive
> PCI card to run a second monitor for Photoshop use -- you put the image on
> the main monitor all the palettes (controls) on the second monitor. It's a
> great way to work. (I'm a photographer, so I spend a lot of time using PS.)
>
> I'm assuming OptiCAL will "do its thing" with the Radeon card, but until I
> install OptiCAL and run the calibration and profiling software, I won't be
> sure the Radeon is the best solution. There is no reason it shouldn't work,
> but you know how that goes.
>
> > Other than that, video cards have some differences between them, as
> > to how sharp they are at high resolution. You could try Google on
> > the name or model number of what you plan on using, combined with the
> > word "fuzzy", to see if the card you are interested in is a dud
> > or not. Some cards in fact don't have bad video chips - they have
> > too much filtering of the output just before it goes to the VGA
> > connector. Some of those cards can be fixed by removing the filter
> > caps from the PI filters near the connector. The filters are
> > distinguishable by the fact there are three color channels, so you
> > see three groups of identical components near the VGA connector
> > on the video card. People used to care about this in years past,
> > and there used to be recipes for removing the caps by snipping
> > them (yuck!). It is a wonder the video cards weren't damaged by
> > that.
>
> I'm not inclined to start snipping things off of video cards, but I'll have
> a look!
>
> > Too bad the flicker cannot be stopped on your Matrox. Have you
> > tried disabling all hardware acceleration ? There is a slider to
> > do that, and maybe with all acceleration disabled, it will stop
> > flickering.
>
> Yes, I tried disabling hardware acceleration, disabling hyper-threading,
> trying different resolutions and refresh rates, but nothing made the flicker
> go away. One interesting thing is a fellow-photographer I met on the
> Photoshop newsgroup has the same mobo as I do and he uses a Matrox G550
> (mine is the G450, but virtually identical), and he doesn't have the
> flicker. Go figure. He e-mailed me that he has a G450 he's not using and
> offered to send it to me just to test. Even though the Radeon is working
> now, I may have him send the card. I sure would like to find out that my
> G450 is defective, rather than conclude that there is something wrong with
> my mobo. It's all perplexing since the G450 should work just fine with the
> P4P. Oh well.
>
> In the installation guide for the Radeon card, it says that prior to
> installing the card, the AGP aperture size should be set to 1/4 the size of
> the memory on the card. I found the AGP aperture setting in BIOS and it's
> at 64. I left it there and the Radeon is working fine. I'm curious what
> that setting does. Do you know? The Radeon has 32MB on it, so that would
> suggest I set the AGP aperture to 8MB. What do you think?
>
> John

Sounds like everything is working out for you.

The AGP aperture is for mapping system memory as an extension of
the texture memory for 3D stuff. I wouldn't worry about the setting
unless you plan on gaming. (As far as resource usage, AGP aperture
reserves part of the address space of the processor, so in a large
memory situation, could be an issue. What I don't know, is whether
the memory it maps to, is allocated on the fly, or is statically
allocated (rojakpot says GART memory is on the fly). And, the rule
might have been "1/4 of system memory", which could be a ridiculously
large number. Some systems freeze up when you mess around with the
AGP aperture, so leaving it alone is also an option.)

http://www.sysopt.com/agp.html

There is BIOS settings advice here:

http://www.rojakpot.com/freeBOG.aspx
http://www.rojakpot.com/showFreeBOG.aspx?Lang=0&bogno=3... ("Aperture")

While working in 2D, most of the memory on your video card will
be unused. The memory that is used, will be for frame buffering.

HTH,
Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 3, 2004 12:59:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Paul,

I'm leaving the AGP aperture setting alone. The Radeon seems to be working
just fine.

I'll check out the pages you linked. Thanks. I'm enjoying learning all
sorts of new things as I researched my new system, built it, and am now
using it.

John


"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-0307040444390001@192.168.1.177...
> In article <wKydnffsnpPD13vdRVn-vg@lmi.net>, "John Blaustein"
> <nomail@nomail.com> wrote:
>
> > Paul,
> >
> > See below...
> >
> > > Video cards have a 2D and a 3D portion to them. We spend the big bucks
> > > to get enhanced 3D performance, but the 2D part of the cards, for the
> > > most part, hasn't changed in years. In that sense, any modern card
with
> > > a working AGP interface is going to work for you. (A PCI video card
> > > might be perceived as too slow at screen updates, when handling large
> > > bitmaps.) As I'm not a dedicated Photoshop user, it would be unfair
> > > for me to suggest a card, as there can be tiny differences between
> > > them that annoy professional users.
> >
> > Yes, I understand that about 3D vs. 2D, which is why I don't see the
need
> > for an expensive card.
> >
> > I've switched cards -- the Radeon 7000 is back in the new system. No
> > flicker, needle sharp text and images, immediate redraw, passes all
DXDIAG
> > tests. I'm going to stick with it for a while and see how it goes.
> >
> > > If you have a color calibration system and a good CRT monitor, then
> > > you can probably calibrate out any color issues. (Calibrator, as in
one
> > > of those devices that you hold up to the CRT, to calibrate the color
> > > response.)
> >
> > Yes, I use a color calibration system -- ColorVision's OptiCAL with
Spyder
> > (the device you stick on the monitor to read the color). I use a good
Sony
> > 21" monitor. I haven't loaded OptiCAL on the new system yet, but will
in
> > the next few days. I also will install a second video card --
inexpensive
> > PCI card to run a second monitor for Photoshop use -- you put the image
on
> > the main monitor all the palettes (controls) on the second monitor.
It's a
> > great way to work. (I'm a photographer, so I spend a lot of time using
PS.)
> >
> > I'm assuming OptiCAL will "do its thing" with the Radeon card, but until
I
> > install OptiCAL and run the calibration and profiling software, I won't
be
> > sure the Radeon is the best solution. There is no reason it shouldn't
work,
> > but you know how that goes.
> >
> > > Other than that, video cards have some differences between them, as
> > > to how sharp they are at high resolution. You could try Google on
> > > the name or model number of what you plan on using, combined with the
> > > word "fuzzy", to see if the card you are interested in is a dud
> > > or not. Some cards in fact don't have bad video chips - they have
> > > too much filtering of the output just before it goes to the VGA
> > > connector. Some of those cards can be fixed by removing the filter
> > > caps from the PI filters near the connector. The filters are
> > > distinguishable by the fact there are three color channels, so you
> > > see three groups of identical components near the VGA connector
> > > on the video card. People used to care about this in years past,
> > > and there used to be recipes for removing the caps by snipping
> > > them (yuck!). It is a wonder the video cards weren't damaged by
> > > that.
> >
> > I'm not inclined to start snipping things off of video cards, but I'll
have
> > a look!
> >
> > > Too bad the flicker cannot be stopped on your Matrox. Have you
> > > tried disabling all hardware acceleration ? There is a slider to
> > > do that, and maybe with all acceleration disabled, it will stop
> > > flickering.
> >
> > Yes, I tried disabling hardware acceleration, disabling hyper-threading,
> > trying different resolutions and refresh rates, but nothing made the
flicker
> > go away. One interesting thing is a fellow-photographer I met on the
> > Photoshop newsgroup has the same mobo as I do and he uses a Matrox G550
> > (mine is the G450, but virtually identical), and he doesn't have the
> > flicker. Go figure. He e-mailed me that he has a G450 he's not using
and
> > offered to send it to me just to test. Even though the Radeon is
working
> > now, I may have him send the card. I sure would like to find out that
my
> > G450 is defective, rather than conclude that there is something wrong
with
> > my mobo. It's all perplexing since the G450 should work just fine with
the
> > P4P. Oh well.
> >
> > In the installation guide for the Radeon card, it says that prior to
> > installing the card, the AGP aperture size should be set to 1/4 the size
of
> > the memory on the card. I found the AGP aperture setting in BIOS and
it's
> > at 64. I left it there and the Radeon is working fine. I'm curious
what
> > that setting does. Do you know? The Radeon has 32MB on it, so that
would
> > suggest I set the AGP aperture to 8MB. What do you think?
> >
> > John
>
> Sounds like everything is working out for you.
>
> The AGP aperture is for mapping system memory as an extension of
> the texture memory for 3D stuff. I wouldn't worry about the setting
> unless you plan on gaming. (As far as resource usage, AGP aperture
> reserves part of the address space of the processor, so in a large
> memory situation, could be an issue. What I don't know, is whether
> the memory it maps to, is allocated on the fly, or is statically
> allocated (rojakpot says GART memory is on the fly). And, the rule
> might have been "1/4 of system memory", which could be a ridiculously
> large number. Some systems freeze up when you mess around with the
> AGP aperture, so leaving it alone is also an option.)
>
> http://www.sysopt.com/agp.html
>
> There is BIOS settings advice here:
>
> http://www.rojakpot.com/freeBOG.aspx
> http://www.rojakpot.com/showFreeBOG.aspx?Lang=0&bogno=3... ("Aperture")
>
> While working in 2D, most of the memory on your video card will
> be unused. The memory that is used, will be for frame buffering.
>
> HTH,
> Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 3, 2004 3:00:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Paul,

Follow up...

I just installed my second video card (PCI) to drive a second monitor. No
problem. Then, I installed ColorVision OptiCAL and calibrated and profiled
both monitors. Perfect! I'll stick with the Radeon 7000 and use the Matrox
card in my old PC (where it's been working fine).

All is well! Thanks again for all your help. (That site about BIOS
tweaking is amazing.)

John
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 5, 2004 2:59:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Can't speak for MATROX cards, but I used a Nvidia card for a long time;
TnT2Ultra, which is suppositely better than the later GeForce3 + cards;
And even some ti 4XXX versions. The RAMDAC on the ATI cards are
superior IMHO. Even a small toshiba laptop with an old RAGE ATI chipset
felt crisper, yet more alive.

I guess that's one purpose of the OptiCAL program. To establish natural tone
and equally bright image. Current Radeon 9800 is fulfilling every dreams
I had about lifeliness. OptiCAL must be pretty accurate, or both your monitors
identical to give you confidence in a separate palette.

So, John, I gues sit's back to work for you.
Good thing Paul was here :) 
Now it's summer and we need more upskirt shots; John.
Don't work too hard; Been there, done that... ;) 

>John Blaustein wrote in message ...
>Paul,
>
>Follow up...
>
>I just installed my second video card (PCI) to drive a second monitor. No
>problem. Then, I installed ColorVision OptiCAL and calibrated and profiled
>both monitors. Perfect! I'll stick with the Radeon 7000 and use the Matrox
>card in my old PC (where it's been working fine).
>
>All is well! Thanks again for all your help. (That site about BIOS
>tweaking is amazing.)
>
>John
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 10, 2004 1:57:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Here's a follow-up to my original post:

A friend loaned me his Matrox G450 card -- identical to my card. It works
perfectly in my P4P800-E Deluxe board. No flicker. Both cards -- mine and
my friend's -- work fine in the CUV4X-E, but mine flickers in the P4P board.

At the suggestion of a Matrox tech guy on their forum, I updated the BIOS on
my card, but that didn't help. I've tried my card with at least three
versions of the Matrox driver. Still, no luck.

Basically, my card works in the CUV mobo, but flickers in the P4P mobo.
This doesn't make sense to me -- why would my card work in one mobo, but not
in another, when an identical card works fine in both mobos?

Any ideas?

John



"John Blaustein" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:o JWdnfOx5qdoS3nd4p2dnA@lmi.net...
> Hi,
>
> I just assembled a new system:
>
> P4P800-E Deluxe
> P4 3.0
> 2GB RAM
> WD 120GB SATA drive
> CD-RW/DVD
>
> When I first assembled the system, I put a Diamond ATI Radeon 7000 AGP
video
> card in. It worked perfectly. I have just exchanged the 7000 for a
Matrox
> G450 AGP card. For some reason, I'm now getting a slight flicker. I have
> installed the most current Matrox driver and am using the same resolution,
> color depth and refresh rate that I was using on my previous PC with the
> same Matrox G450 card.
>
> At the same time I switched the video cards, I switch the Logitech mouse
> from PS/2 to USB. I can't imagine that would make a difference... would
it?
>
> Are there any setting in the P4P800-E Deluxe BIOS that might be causing
> this? I am using the most recent BIOS v.1002.
>
> John
>
>
July 11, 2004 11:49:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

No ideas, except why not just trade G450's with your friend (maybe buy him a
new game as a thank-you?)

"John Blaustein" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:Vr6dnTlrer-CvW3dRVn-jA@lmi.net...
> Here's a follow-up to my original post:
>
> A friend loaned me his Matrox G450 card -- identical to my card. It works
> perfectly in my P4P800-E Deluxe board. No flicker. Both cards -- mine
and
> my friend's -- work fine in the CUV4X-E, but mine flickers in the P4P
board.
>
> At the suggestion of a Matrox tech guy on their forum, I updated the BIOS
on
> my card, but that didn't help. I've tried my card with at least three
> versions of the Matrox driver. Still, no luck.
>
> Basically, my card works in the CUV mobo, but flickers in the P4P mobo.
> This doesn't make sense to me -- why would my card work in one mobo, but
not
> in another, when an identical card works fine in both mobos?
>
> Any ideas?
>
> John
>
>
>
> "John Blaustein" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
> news:o JWdnfOx5qdoS3nd4p2dnA@lmi.net...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just assembled a new system:
> >
> > P4P800-E Deluxe
> > P4 3.0
> > 2GB RAM
> > WD 120GB SATA drive
> > CD-RW/DVD
> >
> > When I first assembled the system, I put a Diamond ATI Radeon 7000 AGP
> video
> > card in. It worked perfectly. I have just exchanged the 7000 for a
> Matrox
> > G450 AGP card. For some reason, I'm now getting a slight flicker. I
have
> > installed the most current Matrox driver and am using the same
resolution,
> > color depth and refresh rate that I was using on my previous PC with the
> > same Matrox G450 card.
> >
> > At the same time I switched the video cards, I switch the Logitech mouse
> > from PS/2 to USB. I can't imagine that would make a difference... would
> it?
> >
> > Are there any setting in the P4P800-E Deluxe BIOS that might be causing
> > this? I am using the most recent BIOS v.1002.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 11, 2004 11:49:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

DanO,

I may end up using my friend's G450, so your suggestion is a good one.
However, that doesn't answer why this is happening, and I'm always curious
to know why things don't work.

John

"DanO" <danogorchockNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zRgIc.111643$wH4.6340363@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> No ideas, except why not just trade G450's with your friend (maybe buy him
a
> new game as a thank-you?)
>
> "John Blaustein" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
> news:Vr6dnTlrer-CvW3dRVn-jA@lmi.net...
> > Here's a follow-up to my original post:
> >
> > A friend loaned me his Matrox G450 card -- identical to my card. It
works
> > perfectly in my P4P800-E Deluxe board. No flicker. Both cards -- mine
> and
> > my friend's -- work fine in the CUV4X-E, but mine flickers in the P4P
> board.
> >
> > At the suggestion of a Matrox tech guy on their forum, I updated the
BIOS
> on
> > my card, but that didn't help. I've tried my card with at least three
> > versions of the Matrox driver. Still, no luck.
> >
> > Basically, my card works in the CUV mobo, but flickers in the P4P mobo.
> > This doesn't make sense to me -- why would my card work in one mobo, but
> not
> > in another, when an identical card works fine in both mobos?
> >
> > Any ideas?
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > "John Blaustein" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
> > news:o JWdnfOx5qdoS3nd4p2dnA@lmi.net...
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I just assembled a new system:
> > >
> > > P4P800-E Deluxe
> > > P4 3.0
> > > 2GB RAM
> > > WD 120GB SATA drive
> > > CD-RW/DVD
> > >
> > > When I first assembled the system, I put a Diamond ATI Radeon 7000 AGP
> > video
> > > card in. It worked perfectly. I have just exchanged the 7000 for a
> > Matrox
> > > G450 AGP card. For some reason, I'm now getting a slight flicker. I
> have
> > > installed the most current Matrox driver and am using the same
> resolution,
> > > color depth and refresh rate that I was using on my previous PC with
the
> > > same Matrox G450 card.
> > >
> > > At the same time I switched the video cards, I switch the Logitech
mouse
> > > from PS/2 to USB. I can't imagine that would make a difference...
would
> > it?
> > >
> > > Are there any setting in the P4P800-E Deluxe BIOS that might be
causing
> > > this? I am using the most recent BIOS v.1002.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
July 14, 2004 4:52:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

John,
I understand completely. My curiosity rarely allows me to leave
questions like this unanswered (I am an Electrical Engineer, so my curiosity
itch is constantly being scratched.)

One idea, have you tried swapping the power supply with a different one?
Maybe one card is drawing less power than the other, and your power supply
is having trouble keeping up with your card. Just a guess.

DanO

"John Blaustein" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:o KGdnaZFtZOwOWzdRVn-iQ@lmi.net...
> DanO,
>
> I may end up using my friend's G450, so your suggestion is a good one.
> However, that doesn't answer why this is happening, and I'm always curious
> to know why things don't work.
>
> John
>
> "DanO" <danogorchockNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:zRgIc.111643$wH4.6340363@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> > No ideas, except why not just trade G450's with your friend (maybe buy
him
> a
> > new game as a thank-you?)
> >
> > "John Blaustein" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
> > news:Vr6dnTlrer-CvW3dRVn-jA@lmi.net...
> > > Here's a follow-up to my original post:
> > >
> > > A friend loaned me his Matrox G450 card -- identical to my card. It
> works
> > > perfectly in my P4P800-E Deluxe board. No flicker. Both cards --
mine
> > and
> > > my friend's -- work fine in the CUV4X-E, but mine flickers in the P4P
> > board.
> > >
> > > At the suggestion of a Matrox tech guy on their forum, I updated the
> BIOS
> > on
> > > my card, but that didn't help. I've tried my card with at least three
> > > versions of the Matrox driver. Still, no luck.
> > >
> > > Basically, my card works in the CUV mobo, but flickers in the P4P
mobo.
> > > This doesn't make sense to me -- why would my card work in one mobo,
but
> > not
> > > in another, when an identical card works fine in both mobos?
> > >
> > > Any ideas?
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "John Blaustein" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:o JWdnfOx5qdoS3nd4p2dnA@lmi.net...
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I just assembled a new system:
> > > >
> > > > P4P800-E Deluxe
> > > > P4 3.0
> > > > 2GB RAM
> > > > WD 120GB SATA drive
> > > > CD-RW/DVD
> > > >
> > > > When I first assembled the system, I put a Diamond ATI Radeon 7000
AGP
> > > video
> > > > card in. It worked perfectly. I have just exchanged the 7000 for a
> > > Matrox
> > > > G450 AGP card. For some reason, I'm now getting a slight flicker.
I
> > have
> > > > installed the most current Matrox driver and am using the same
> > resolution,
> > > > color depth and refresh rate that I was using on my previous PC with
> the
> > > > same Matrox G450 card.
> > > >
> > > > At the same time I switched the video cards, I switch the Logitech
> mouse
> > > > from PS/2 to USB. I can't imagine that would make a difference...
> would
> > > it?
> > > >
> > > > Are there any setting in the P4P800-E Deluxe BIOS that might be
> causing
> > > > this? I am using the most recent BIOS v.1002.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 14, 2004 4:52:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hi DanO,

I'm a photographer, not a computer person, but cameras are getting to be
like computers, so I am always driven to completely understand how things
work, and to be sure they are working correctly.

Actually, I did try switching power supplies, and it made no difference.

The Matrox tech guy didn't have an explanation and finally suggested I
return the card to them, but when I requested an RMA, they e-mailed that the
card is no longer under warranty -- fair enough, it's over three years
old -- and a repair or replacement would cost $50 plus shipping (both ways).
I can pick up a used one on eBay for half that, so I declined. In
addition, my friend is letting me keep his card, so I'm in good shape now --
I'm leaving the "broken" card in the CUV machine and using my friend's card
in the P4P machine, so both machines now have perfect video. And, for a
small fee, newegg.com will allow me to return the Radeon card. All is well.

John


"DanO" <danogorchockNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Vs%Ic.158102$tH1.5629590@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> John,
> I understand completely. My curiosity rarely allows me to leave
> questions like this unanswered (I am an Electrical Engineer, so my
curiosity
> itch is constantly being scratched.)
>
> One idea, have you tried swapping the power supply with a different one?
> Maybe one card is drawing less power than the other, and your power supply
> is having trouble keeping up with your card. Just a guess.
>
> DanO
>
> "John Blaustein" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
> news:o KGdnaZFtZOwOWzdRVn-iQ@lmi.net...
> > DanO,
> >
> > I may end up using my friend's G450, so your suggestion is a good one.
> > However, that doesn't answer why this is happening, and I'm always
curious
> > to know why things don't work.
> >
> > John
> >
> > "DanO" <danogorchockNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:zRgIc.111643$wH4.6340363@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> > > No ideas, except why not just trade G450's with your friend (maybe buy
> him
> > a
> > > new game as a thank-you?)
> > >
> > > "John Blaustein" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:Vr6dnTlrer-CvW3dRVn-jA@lmi.net...
> > > > Here's a follow-up to my original post:
> > > >
> > > > A friend loaned me his Matrox G450 card -- identical to my card. It
> > works
> > > > perfectly in my P4P800-E Deluxe board. No flicker. Both cards --
> mine
> > > and
> > > > my friend's -- work fine in the CUV4X-E, but mine flickers in the
P4P
> > > board.
> > > >
> > > > At the suggestion of a Matrox tech guy on their forum, I updated the
> > BIOS
> > > on
> > > > my card, but that didn't help. I've tried my card with at least
three
> > > > versions of the Matrox driver. Still, no luck.
> > > >
> > > > Basically, my card works in the CUV mobo, but flickers in the P4P
> mobo.
> > > > This doesn't make sense to me -- why would my card work in one mobo,
> but
> > > not
> > > > in another, when an identical card works fine in both mobos?
> > > >
> > > > Any ideas?
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "John Blaustein" <nomail@nomail.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:o JWdnfOx5qdoS3nd4p2dnA@lmi.net...
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I just assembled a new system:
> > > > >
> > > > > P4P800-E Deluxe
> > > > > P4 3.0
> > > > > 2GB RAM
> > > > > WD 120GB SATA drive
> > > > > CD-RW/DVD
> > > > >
> > > > > When I first assembled the system, I put a Diamond ATI Radeon 7000
> AGP
> > > > video
> > > > > card in. It worked perfectly. I have just exchanged the 7000 for
a
> > > > Matrox
> > > > > G450 AGP card. For some reason, I'm now getting a slight flicker.
> I
> > > have
> > > > > installed the most current Matrox driver and am using the same
> > > resolution,
> > > > > color depth and refresh rate that I was using on my previous PC
with
> > the
> > > > > same Matrox G450 card.
> > > > >
> > > > > At the same time I switched the video cards, I switch the Logitech
> > mouse
> > > > > from PS/2 to USB. I can't imagine that would make a difference...
> > would
> > > > it?
> > > > >
> > > > > Are there any setting in the P4P800-E Deluxe BIOS that might be
> > causing
> > > > > this? I am using the most recent BIOS v.1002.
> > > > >
> > > > > John
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
!