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Athlon XP-M 2600+, Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe, random-no-POST - w..

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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 3, 2004 11:05:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

I recently decided to upgrade my Athlon 2400+ system and build my wife a new
computer using my old CPU. As luck would have it, the PC I built for her
worked beautifully on the first try, but my "minor" upgrade has turned into a
nightmare, causing me to buy a couple CPU's and a new motherboard. Despite
all the unplanned expense, I'm having a problem, and I'm not sure where to
start with my troubleshooting.

Simply put - every time I turn my PC on, I don't know how many tries it'll
take for the system to POST. Most of the time, I have to hit Reset 3-5 times
before the POST "beep" happens, and the system boots up, and seems to remain
completely stable. Sometimes it takes more resets, and sometimes it works on
the first try. There's no discernable pattern, and when it doesn't boot,
there's no beep error pattern and no Voice POST (I've got it enabled, and
I've been turning my speakers on before my PC to hopefully aid in
troubleshooting).

I'm running:
- Athlon XP-M 2600+ - at a variety of speeds and voltages, none of which
seemed to affect this problem (currently at 166x12, ~1.6V)
- A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard (brand new from NewEgg, BIOS v 1011 - haven't
tried 1012 yet, but it appears that its only purpose is to add Sempron
support)
- 1GB Corsair XMS Pro PC4000 memory - 2 512MB sticks (a "TwinX" pair)
- Antec TruePower 430W Power supply
- ATI Radeon 9800 Pro w/ 128MB
- WD1200JB and WD1000JB hard drives (primary master and slave respectively)
- Sony DRU-500A DVD writer (secondary slave)
- 3.5" floppy drive (Panasonic? I forget)
- Win2K Pro (not that it matters, since this problem is pre-POST)

I've done some web searches, and I've seen all sorts of No-POST problems, but
not intermittent POST problems like this. Those problems all seem to have
something to do with a problem that simply prevents the system from POSTing
(100% of the time). I'm using pretty conservative BIOS settings. I was
planning on pushing them a bit, but I need a system that runs consistently
first.

All of these devices except for the XP-M 2600+ and A7N8X-E Deluxe were
working fine in my previous setup. I've also tried running MemTes86+ 1.20.
It could not find any problems with my memory, though I didn't expect any.

I've occasionally had a few other problems, but they've been pretty rare.
They seem to suggets a possible motherboard hardware problem, though. Two or
three times, when I've successfully booted, my sound driver was not working.
Win2K couldn't seem to find the Soundstorm device. Another two or three
times, I've successfully booted up to find that I can't access the Internet.
The NIC seems to not be working (the router and cable modem are both working,
and the other system connected to the router is working - and a successful
reboot fixed it each time). Additionally, I've twice gotten a BSOD, an
extreme rarity in Win2K in my experience. The BSOD error text said
"IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" - a Google search suggested that this was either a
problem with driver conflicts, which would show up in Device Manager (not the
case), or a hardware failure, with likely culprits being RAM and NIC. Since
the RAM checks out and I've had a few instances of apparent NIC failure,
this, along with the rest of the evidence, seemed to suggest a motherboard
problem. But it doesn't tell me much of anything for certain.

Before I start ripping this machine and my wife's machine apart to try to
isolate this problem, does anyone have any suggestions for troubleshooting or
theories on the cause? Hardware problem? BIOS issue? If I can solve this
problem without taking my wife's PC out of commission as I use it for
temporary spare parts, I'd be ecstatic. :) 

--
Erik Harris n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com
AIM: KngFuJoe http://www.eharrishome.com
Chinese-Indonesian MA Club http://cimac.eharrishome.com

The above email address is obfuscated to try to prevent SPAM.
Replace each dollar sign with an "e" for the correct address.
September 4, 2004 12:40:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 19:05:25 -0400, Erik Harris
<n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com> wrote:

>I recently decided to upgrade my Athlon 2400+ system and build my wife a new
>computer using my old CPU. As luck would have it, the PC I built for her
>worked beautifully on the first try, but my "minor" upgrade has turned into a
>nightmare, causing me to buy a couple CPU's and a new motherboard. Despite
>all the unplanned expense, I'm having a problem, and I'm not sure where to
>start with my troubleshooting.
>
>Simply put - every time I turn my PC on, I don't know how many tries it'll
>take for the system to POST. Most of the time, I have to hit Reset 3-5 times
>before the POST "beep" happens, and the system boots up, and seems to remain
>completely stable. Sometimes it takes more resets, and sometimes it works on
>the first try. There's no discernable pattern, and when it doesn't boot,
>there's no beep error pattern and no Voice POST (I've got it enabled, and
>I've been turning my speakers on before my PC to hopefully aid in
>troubleshooting).
>
>I'm running:
>- Athlon XP-M 2600+ - at a variety of speeds and voltages, none of which
>seemed to affect this problem (currently at 166x12, ~1.6V)
>- A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard (brand new from NewEgg, BIOS v 1011 - haven't
>tried 1012 yet, but it appears that its only purpose is to add Sempron
>support)
>- 1GB Corsair XMS Pro PC4000 memory - 2 512MB sticks (a "TwinX" pair)
>- Antec TruePower 430W Power supply
>- ATI Radeon 9800 Pro w/ 128MB
>- WD1200JB and WD1000JB hard drives (primary master and slave respectively)
>- Sony DRU-500A DVD writer (secondary slave)
>- 3.5" floppy drive (Panasonic? I forget)
>- Win2K Pro (not that it matters, since this problem is pre-POST)
>
>I've done some web searches, and I've seen all sorts of No-POST problems, but
>not intermittent POST problems like this. Those problems all seem to have
>something to do with a problem that simply prevents the system from POSTing
>(100% of the time). I'm using pretty conservative BIOS settings. I was
>planning on pushing them a bit, but I need a system that runs consistently
>first.
>
>All of these devices except for the XP-M 2600+ and A7N8X-E Deluxe were
>working fine in my previous setup. I've also tried running MemTes86+ 1.20.
>It could not find any problems with my memory, though I didn't expect any.
>
>I've occasionally had a few other problems, but they've been pretty rare.
>They seem to suggets a possible motherboard hardware problem, though. Two or
>three times, when I've successfully booted, my sound driver was not working.
>Win2K couldn't seem to find the Soundstorm device. Another two or three
>times, I've successfully booted up to find that I can't access the Internet.
>The NIC seems to not be working (the router and cable modem are both working,
>and the other system connected to the router is working - and a successful
>reboot fixed it each time). Additionally, I've twice gotten a BSOD, an
>extreme rarity in Win2K in my experience. The BSOD error text said
>"IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" - a Google search suggested that this was either a
>problem with driver conflicts, which would show up in Device Manager (not the
>case), or a hardware failure, with likely culprits being RAM and NIC. Since
>the RAM checks out and I've had a few instances of apparent NIC failure,
>this, along with the rest of the evidence, seemed to suggest a motherboard
>problem. But it doesn't tell me much of anything for certain.
>
>Before I start ripping this machine and my wife's machine apart to try to
>isolate this problem, does anyone have any suggestions for troubleshooting or
>theories on the cause? Hardware problem? BIOS issue? If I can solve this
>problem without taking my wife's PC out of commission as I use it for
>temporary spare parts, I'd be ecstatic. :) 

I'd try running the ram at the same MHz as the FSB if you haven't
already.

Ed
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 4, 2004 2:14:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Erik Harris wrote:

> - Antec TruePower 430W Power supply
My wife's computer recently had trouble booting after recent upgrades
upped the power demands. I bought an Antec TruePower 330 and things got
worse. I think the PSU had some bad solder joints. I RMAed it and the
replecement works fine. This suprised me with an Antec, but a few
equipment swaps clearly isolated the PSU as the problem.
Related resources
September 4, 2004 3:01:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

In article <atshj0lcodv2q3m7mp7chdohnlsqs4nror@4ax.com>, Erik Harris
<n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com> wrote:

> I recently decided to upgrade my Athlon 2400+ system and build my wife a new
> computer using my old CPU. As luck would have it, the PC I built for her
> worked beautifully on the first try, but my "minor" upgrade has turned into a
> nightmare, causing me to buy a couple CPU's and a new motherboard. Despite
> all the unplanned expense, I'm having a problem, and I'm not sure where to
> start with my troubleshooting.
>
> Simply put - every time I turn my PC on, I don't know how many tries it'll
> take for the system to POST. Most of the time, I have to hit Reset 3-5 times
> before the POST "beep" happens, and the system boots up, and seems to remain
> completely stable. Sometimes it takes more resets, and sometimes it works on
> the first try. There's no discernable pattern, and when it doesn't boot,
> there's no beep error pattern and no Voice POST (I've got it enabled, and
> I've been turning my speakers on before my PC to hopefully aid in
> troubleshooting).
>
> I'm running:
> - Athlon XP-M 2600+ - at a variety of speeds and voltages, none of which
> seemed to affect this problem (currently at 166x12, ~1.6V)
> - A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard (brand new from NewEgg, BIOS v 1011 - haven't
> tried 1012 yet, but it appears that its only purpose is to add Sempron
> support)
> - 1GB Corsair XMS Pro PC4000 memory - 2 512MB sticks (a "TwinX" pair)
> - Antec TruePower 430W Power supply
> - ATI Radeon 9800 Pro w/ 128MB
> - WD1200JB and WD1000JB hard drives (primary master and slave respectively)
> - Sony DRU-500A DVD writer (secondary slave)
> - 3.5" floppy drive (Panasonic? I forget)
> - Win2K Pro (not that it matters, since this problem is pre-POST)
>
> I've done some web searches, and I've seen all sorts of No-POST problems, but
> not intermittent POST problems like this. Those problems all seem to have
> something to do with a problem that simply prevents the system from POSTing
> (100% of the time). I'm using pretty conservative BIOS settings. I was
> planning on pushing them a bit, but I need a system that runs consistently
> first.
>
> All of these devices except for the XP-M 2600+ and A7N8X-E Deluxe were
> working fine in my previous setup. I've also tried running MemTes86+ 1.20.
> It could not find any problems with my memory, though I didn't expect any.
>
> I've occasionally had a few other problems, but they've been pretty rare.
> They seem to suggets a possible motherboard hardware problem, though. Two or
> three times, when I've successfully booted, my sound driver was not working.
> Win2K couldn't seem to find the Soundstorm device. Another two or three
> times, I've successfully booted up to find that I can't access the Internet.
> The NIC seems to not be working (the router and cable modem are both working,
> and the other system connected to the router is working - and a successful
> reboot fixed it each time). Additionally, I've twice gotten a BSOD, an
> extreme rarity in Win2K in my experience. The BSOD error text said
> "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" - a Google search suggested that this was either a
> problem with driver conflicts, which would show up in Device Manager (not the
> case), or a hardware failure, with likely culprits being RAM and NIC. Since
> the RAM checks out and I've had a few instances of apparent NIC failure,
> this, along with the rest of the evidence, seemed to suggest a motherboard
> problem. But it doesn't tell me much of anything for certain.
>
> Before I start ripping this machine and my wife's machine apart to try to
> isolate this problem, does anyone have any suggestions for troubleshooting or
> theories on the cause? Hardware problem? BIOS issue? If I can solve this
> problem without taking my wife's PC out of commission as I use it for
> temporary spare parts, I'd be ecstatic. :) 

To cure your random problems, try installing chipset drivers, as
per this FAQ:

http://www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html

The FAQ recommends the Forceware drivers from Nvidia, and perhaps
that will help.

Your flaky POST problem is going to be tougher to solve.

Your Voice POST symptoms (no Voice POST message) means that a
proper reset pulse is not being generated for the hardware. As
far as I know, the Voice POST chip needs +5VSB to run (you'll
see the green LED glowing on the motherboard, just before you
press the power button on the front of the computer, and that
will give some proof that the power supply is delivering +5VSB).
In addition, it needs a reset pulse that goes low and then high
(the deasserted state is logic 1). If the reset signal is stuck
low, this can be caused by a bad or jammed reset switch. The
reset logic is also dependent in some way, on power_good, so
if some of the power conversion/regulation circuits on the
motherboard are not becoming ready, that will prevent the
reset from going high (turned off) as well. A third reason
is monitor leakage, where a DC current flows down the monitor
cable, and prevents some of the power circuitry on the motherboard
from cycling properly (going off and back on again) - I cannot
say I fully understand this particular case, except to note that
people find relief when they unplug the monitor cable, and then
the PC starts to behave.

Early in my engineering career, I got a first hand demo of
DC leakage on two CMOS circuit boards. Each board had an
independent power supply, and the boards talked to one another.
When the power was switched off on one board, enough current
leaked from the outputs of one card, to the other card, that the
power rail on the second card was charged to 3.6V (of normal 5V)
and the second card continued to function. With CMOS circuits,
it is easy for one circuit (like the DDC serial logic on the
computer monitor) to charge up a second circuit, making the
second circuit think it is already running, and preventing a
normal reset from being generated from the power logic.

I would start with a power supply swap, if you have a spare.
Instead of tearing up your wife's computer, buying a spare power
supply is a good thing to have on hand anyway, given the
demonstrated MTBF in this newsgroup for power supplies. Make
sure to buy a name brand, and try to aim for a brand which is
different than the brands currently used in your computers
(this will allow testing for sensitivity to power supply
startup characteristics, which vary from brand to brand).

Try disconnecting the reset button, on the off chance a defective
reset button is preventing the normal power up sequence from
resetting the computer.

And it could easily be the motherboard that is defective. If
you make no progress with the symptoms in a couple of days,
return it.

HTH,
Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 4, 2004 3:28:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"Erik Harris" <n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com> wrote in message
news:atshj0lcodv2q3m7mp7chdohnlsqs4nror@4ax.com...
>I recently decided to upgrade my Athlon 2400+ system and build my wife a
>new
> computer using my old CPU. As luck would have it, the PC I built for her
> worked beautifully on the first try, but my "minor" upgrade has turned
> into a
> nightmare, causing me to buy a couple CPU's and a new motherboard.
> Despite
> all the unplanned expense, I'm having a problem, and I'm not sure where to
> start with my troubleshooting.
>
> Simply put - every time I turn my PC on, I don't know how many tries it'll
> take for the system to POST. Most of the time, I have to hit Reset 3-5
> times
> before the POST "beep" happens, and the system boots up, and seems to
> remain
> completely stable. Sometimes it takes more resets, and sometimes it works
> on
> the first try. There's no discernable pattern, and when it doesn't boot,
> there's no beep error pattern and no Voice POST (I've got it enabled, and
> I've been turning my speakers on before my PC to hopefully aid in
> troubleshooting).
>
> I'm running:
> - Athlon XP-M 2600+ - at a variety of speeds and voltages, none of which
> seemed to affect this problem (currently at 166x12, ~1.6V)
> - A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard (brand new from NewEgg, BIOS v 1011 - haven't
> tried 1012 yet, but it appears that its only purpose is to add Sempron
> support)
> - 1GB Corsair XMS Pro PC4000 memory - 2 512MB sticks (a "TwinX" pair)
> - Antec TruePower 430W Power supply
> - ATI Radeon 9800 Pro w/ 128MB
> - WD1200JB and WD1000JB hard drives (primary master and slave
> respectively)
> - Sony DRU-500A DVD writer (secondary slave)
> - 3.5" floppy drive (Panasonic? I forget)
> - Win2K Pro (not that it matters, since this problem is pre-POST)
>
> I've done some web searches, and I've seen all sorts of No-POST problems,
> but
> not intermittent POST problems like this. Those problems all seem to have
> something to do with a problem that simply prevents the system from
> POSTing
> (100% of the time). I'm using pretty conservative BIOS settings. I was
> planning on pushing them a bit, but I need a system that runs consistently
> first.
>
> All of these devices except for the XP-M 2600+ and A7N8X-E Deluxe were
> working fine in my previous setup. I've also tried running MemTes86+
> 1.20.
> It could not find any problems with my memory, though I didn't expect any.
>
> I've occasionally had a few other problems, but they've been pretty rare.
> They seem to suggets a possible motherboard hardware problem, though. Two
> or
> three times, when I've successfully booted, my sound driver was not
> working.
> Win2K couldn't seem to find the Soundstorm device. Another two or three
> times, I've successfully booted up to find that I can't access the
> Internet.
> The NIC seems to not be working (the router and cable modem are both
> working,
> and the other system connected to the router is working - and a successful
> reboot fixed it each time). Additionally, I've twice gotten a BSOD, an
> extreme rarity in Win2K in my experience. The BSOD error text said
> "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" - a Google search suggested that this was either
> a
> problem with driver conflicts, which would show up in Device Manager (not
> the
> case), or a hardware failure, with likely culprits being RAM and NIC.
> Since
> the RAM checks out and I've had a few instances of apparent NIC failure,
> this, along with the rest of the evidence, seemed to suggest a motherboard
> problem. But it doesn't tell me much of anything for certain.
>
> Before I start ripping this machine and my wife's machine apart to try to
> isolate this problem, does anyone have any suggestions for troubleshooting
> or
> theories on the cause? Hardware problem? BIOS issue? If I can solve
> this
> problem without taking my wife's PC out of commission as I use it for
> temporary spare parts, I'd be ecstatic. :) 
>
> --
> Erik Harris n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com
> AIM: KngFuJoe http://www.eharrishome.com
> Chinese-Indonesian MA Club http://cimac.eharrishome.com
>
> The above email address is obfuscated to try to prevent SPAM.
> Replace each dollar sign with an "e" for the correct address.

Sounds to me like it's having trouble initiallizing the video upon cold
boot. I know a 430w antec really seems like a more than adequate psu but
that might be one of the things I'd look at. I've seen an issue like this
solved with an identical board simply by the user removing his case fan
plugs from the motherboard headers and using the plugs from his psu to power
his fans. Failing that, I think a minimal test setup might be in order.
Simply remove every unecessary componant except those needed ( ram, cpu,
fan, vid ) and replace one by one the other stuff. A long tedious process I
know but if it could solve your problem I'm sure you'd agree it's worth it.
At any rate, best of luck and do post back and let us know if you resolve
this annoying problem.




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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 4, 2004 4:12:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 20:40:17 -0500, Ed <nosay@home.com> wrote:

>I'd try running the ram at the same MHz as the FSB if you haven't
>already.

Sorry, I should have mentioned that the RAM and FSB have been running in sync
the whole time.

--
Erik Harris n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com
AIM: KngFuJoe http://www.eharrishome.com
Chinese-Indonesian MA Club http://cimac.eharrishome.com

The above email address is obfuscated to try to prevent SPAM.
Replace each dollar sign with an "e" for the correct address.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 4, 2004 4:24:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 23:01:12 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>To cure your random problems, try installing chipset drivers, as
>per this FAQ:

>http://www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html

I've got the latest chipset drivers installed (from nVidia's site - 4.27,
though they appear to be the same as 4.24 was). If I didn't have the proper
drivers installed, the problems wouldn't be so intermittent, would they? My
thought is that they are probably linked to the POST problem. Both sound and
NIC have worked 99% of the time. Only on a few bootups have they failed to
work.

>Your flaky POST problem is going to be tougher to solve.

>Your Voice POST symptoms (no Voice POST message) means that a
>proper reset pulse is not being generated for the hardware.

It seems to be. When I turn the power on, or hit the reset button, the
floppy drive and CD drive both do their quick self test, and the HD spins up.
But it doesn't get as far as POSTing. _Occasionally_, I get a Voice POST
error of "System failed due to CPU overclocking," but it seems relatively
rare, it seems to have happened most often right after I've changed the CPU
speed in BIOS, and half the time it happens, the systems boots up
successfully (at the specified clock speed) right after telling me that
boot-up failed. So that _very_ occasional Voice POST error seems to be
erroneous, like the constant "System failed memory test" voice error that the
A7N8X-Deluxe 1.04 was plagued with for many, many BIOS versions.

>reset from going high (turned off) as well. A third reason
>is monitor leakage, where a DC current flows down the monitor
>cable, and prevents some of the power circuitry on the motherboard
>from cycling properly (going off and back on again) - I cannot
>say I fully understand this particular case, except to note that
>people find relief when they unplug the monitor cable, and then
>the PC starts to behave.

The monitor and monitor cable aren't new, and were being used just fine in my
pre-upgrade system (using an A7N8X-Deluxe, XP2400+, and otherwise the same
hardware I'm using now). I don't particularly understand this case either,
but does the type of monitor cable matter? i.e. is this a problem
specifically with analog or digital cables? I've got an LCD connected via
DVI.

>sure to buy a name brand, and try to aim for a brand which is
>different than the brands currently used in your computers
>(this will allow testing for sensitivity to power supply
>startup characteristics, which vary from brand to brand).

I can't imagine that the Asus motherboards are sensitive to, of all PSU's,
Antec TruePower units. If I were using some generic PSU, I'd buy that, but
with an Antec PSU, a "sensitivity to PSU startup characteristics" strikes me
as a characteristic of component failure on the motherboard.

>Try disconnecting the reset button, on the off chance a defective
>reset button is preventing the normal power up sequence from
>resetting the computer.

I'll give this a shot.

>And it could easily be the motherboard that is defective. If
>you make no progress with the symptoms in a couple of days,
>return it.

I might have better luck with RMA. Aside from the fact that I haven't had
time to work on this in awhile and have been using the board for a few weeks
(i.e. probably too late to return), I believe NewEgg has a restocking fee
even for exchanges of faulty equipment. I'd have to check to be sure on both
aspects of that, though. I'd also rather make sure it's the motherboard
before I take that route, by dropping in my wife's PSU, CPU, Video card, and
RAM (I may use up this thermal compound in record time, the way I'm swapping
CPU's in and out during this damn upgrade).

Thanks for your suggestions.

--
Erik Harris n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com
AIM: KngFuJoe http://www.eharrishome.com
Chinese-Indonesian MA Club http://cimac.eharrishome.com

The above email address is obfuscated to try to prevent SPAM.
Replace each dollar sign with an "e" for the correct address.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 4, 2004 4:30:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 23:28:15 -0400, "loonym" <loon@thelake.not> wrote:

>his fans. Failing that, I think a minimal test setup might be in order.
>Simply remove every unecessary componant except those needed ( ram, cpu,
>fan, vid ) and replace one by one the other stuff. A long tedious process I

Aside from the case fans, this has already been done. The hardware I listed
in my original post is a complete list of what's connected, at least inside
the case. Even outside, all that's currently connected is a keyboard, mouse,
monitor, and speakers. NIC, sound, IDE controller, etc are all built into
the motherboard, so they can't really be removed.

I can try disconnecting the two case fans, hard drives, floppy drive, and
optical drive to see if it'll POST consistently.

--
Erik Harris n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com
AIM: KngFuJoe http://www.eharrishome.com
Chinese-Indonesian MA Club http://cimac.eharrishome.com

The above email address is obfuscated to try to prevent SPAM.
Replace each dollar sign with an "e" for the correct address.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 4, 2004 4:34:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 23:28:15 -0400, "loonym" <loon@thelake.not> wrote:
>Sounds to me like it's having trouble initiallizing the video upon cold
>boot. I know a 430w antec really seems like a more than adequate psu but

There's a beep code associated with video card initialization.
Long-short-short, if memory serves. But when my system doesn't boot, it
doesn't indicate any error, either via voice POST, or traditional POST beep
codes.

--
Erik Harris n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com
AIM: KngFuJoe http://www.eharrishome.com
Chinese-Indonesian MA Club http://cimac.eharrishome.com

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September 4, 2004 5:40:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

In article <d6gij0pnnn4aj0egg6oc2omoprmeuvq4b1@4ax.com>, Erik Harris
<n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 23:01:12 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:
>
<<snip>>
> >sure to buy a name brand, and try to aim for a brand which is
> >different than the brands currently used in your computers
> >(this will allow testing for sensitivity to power supply
> >startup characteristics, which vary from brand to brand).
>
> I can't imagine that the Asus motherboards are sensitive to, of all PSU's,
> Antec TruePower units. If I were using some generic PSU, I'd buy that, but
> with an Antec PSU, a "sensitivity to PSU startup characteristics" strikes me
> as a characteristic of component failure on the motherboard.
>
<<snip>>

In fact, that is exactly what happened. There was a problem with,
I think it was P4P800 revision 1.02, where _any_ of the Antec
CWT contracted supplies (the TruePower series) prevented the P4P800
from starting. So, it is not as far fetched as you think. A component
changed was used to fix that board, and I presume customers
RMAing the board now, will receive a 1.02 board with a different
component value in the Vcore circuit.

But, it is pretty unlikely that the A7N8X-E uses the same Vcore
circuit as a P4P800. I only mention it, so your household has more
than one brand of PSU available for testing.

HTH,
Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 4, 2004 6:08:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Perhaps...try adjusting all the fans on full, and keep the BIOS fan controls
at full on.
I have read that some fans, if set to low, may falsely indicate to the
machine that the fan is not functional, and your machine may be
automatically shutting down, to protect your processor from overheating.
Worth a try, hope it helps.

"Erik Harris" <n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com> wrote in message
news:atshj0lcodv2q3m7mp7chdohnlsqs4nror@4ax.com...
>I recently decided to upgrade my Athlon 2400+ system and build my wife a
>new
> computer using my old CPU. As luck would have it, the PC I built for her
> worked beautifully on the first try, but my "minor" upgrade has turned
> into a
> nightmare, causing me to buy a couple CPU's and a new motherboard.
> Despite
> all the unplanned expense, I'm having a problem, and I'm not sure where to
> start with my troubleshooting.
>
> Simply put - every time I turn my PC on, I don't know how many tries it'll
> take for the system to POST. Most of the time, I have to hit Reset 3-5
> times
> before the POST "beep" happens, and the system boots up, and seems to
> remain
> completely stable. Sometimes it takes more resets, and sometimes it works
> on
> the first try. There's no discernable pattern, and when it doesn't boot,
> there's no beep error pattern and no Voice POST (I've got it enabled, and
> I've been turning my speakers on before my PC to hopefully aid in
> troubleshooting).
>
> I'm running:
> - Athlon XP-M 2600+ - at a variety of speeds and voltages, none of which
> seemed to affect this problem (currently at 166x12, ~1.6V)
> - A7N8X-E Deluxe motherboard (brand new from NewEgg, BIOS v 1011 - haven't
> tried 1012 yet, but it appears that its only purpose is to add Sempron
> support)
> - 1GB Corsair XMS Pro PC4000 memory - 2 512MB sticks (a "TwinX" pair)
> - Antec TruePower 430W Power supply
> - ATI Radeon 9800 Pro w/ 128MB
> - WD1200JB and WD1000JB hard drives (primary master and slave
> respectively)
> - Sony DRU-500A DVD writer (secondary slave)
> - 3.5" floppy drive (Panasonic? I forget)
> - Win2K Pro (not that it matters, since this problem is pre-POST)
>
> I've done some web searches, and I've seen all sorts of No-POST problems,
> but
> not intermittent POST problems like this. Those problems all seem to have
> something to do with a problem that simply prevents the system from
> POSTing
> (100% of the time). I'm using pretty conservative BIOS settings. I was
> planning on pushing them a bit, but I need a system that runs consistently
> first.
>
> All of these devices except for the XP-M 2600+ and A7N8X-E Deluxe were
> working fine in my previous setup. I've also tried running MemTes86+
> 1.20.
> It could not find any problems with my memory, though I didn't expect any.
>
> I've occasionally had a few other problems, but they've been pretty rare.
> They seem to suggets a possible motherboard hardware problem, though. Two
> or
> three times, when I've successfully booted, my sound driver was not
> working.
> Win2K couldn't seem to find the Soundstorm device. Another two or three
> times, I've successfully booted up to find that I can't access the
> Internet.
> The NIC seems to not be working (the router and cable modem are both
> working,
> and the other system connected to the router is working - and a successful
> reboot fixed it each time). Additionally, I've twice gotten a BSOD, an
> extreme rarity in Win2K in my experience. The BSOD error text said
> "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" - a Google search suggested that this was either
> a
> problem with driver conflicts, which would show up in Device Manager (not
> the
> case), or a hardware failure, with likely culprits being RAM and NIC.
> Since
> the RAM checks out and I've had a few instances of apparent NIC failure,
> this, along with the rest of the evidence, seemed to suggest a motherboard
> problem. But it doesn't tell me much of anything for certain.
>
> Before I start ripping this machine and my wife's machine apart to try to
> isolate this problem, does anyone have any suggestions for troubleshooting
> or
> theories on the cause? Hardware problem? BIOS issue? If I can solve
> this
> problem without taking my wife's PC out of commission as I use it for
> temporary spare parts, I'd be ecstatic. :) 
>
> --
> Erik Harris n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com
> AIM: KngFuJoe http://www.eharrishome.com
> Chinese-Indonesian MA Club http://cimac.eharrishome.com
>
> The above email address is obfuscated to try to prevent SPAM.
> Replace each dollar sign with an "e" for the correct address.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 4, 2004 6:08:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 02:08:20 GMT, "S Gibbons" <rsgibbons@comcast.net> wrote:

>Perhaps...try adjusting all the fans on full, and keep the BIOS fan controls
>at full on.

I've got one fan with a potentiometer, but it's just a case fan. The others
are all constant-rate, I believe (the PSU fan might be temperature sensing).
I haven't tried turning QFan support on, though. It seems that Asus QFan
support has been pretty iffy ever since it was introduced, so I hadn't
bothered with it. I'll see if turning it on makes a difference.

--
Erik Harris n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com
AIM: KngFuJoe http://www.eharrishome.com
Chinese-Indonesian MA Club http://cimac.eharrishome.com

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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 4, 2004 6:17:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 22:14:35 -0700, Donald White <dbwhite@asu.educational>
wrote:

>Erik Harris wrote:
>
>> - Antec TruePower 430W Power supply
>My wife's computer recently had trouble booting after recent upgrades
>upped the power demands. I bought an Antec TruePower 330 and things got
>worse. I think the PSU had some bad solder joints. I RMAed it and the
>replecement works fine. This suprised me with an Antec, but a few
>equipment swaps clearly isolated the PSU as the problem.

That is surprising. I've been using the PSU for over a year, though, in a
motherboard with almost the exact same components (A7N8X-Deluxe, now A7N8X-E
Deluxe - the only changes that I can see are the fact that this uses the
updated nForce2 Ultra400 chipset, and this adds an expansion slot for some
proprietary Asus WiFi slot. Oh, it also uses a different brand component for
the secondary NIC. I've got that disabled in BIOS, though, and am using the
nVidia NIC)

--
Erik Harris n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com
AIM: KngFuJoe http://www.eharrishome.com
Chinese-Indonesian MA Club http://cimac.eharrishome.com

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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 5, 2004 5:12:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Take the motherboard out of the case and try it with just CPU, heatsink,
Ram, PSU, KB, mouse and Video card. If it works you probably have a MoBo
mount shorting out the board

If you have a heatsink that bolts on to the Mobo check the mounts and make
sure they are not shorting things out. I had an ABIT AN7 that I took back
because ABIT put stuff too close to mounting holes shorting out against my
Swiftech MCX462
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 6, 2004 3:58:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 23:01:12 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>Your flaky POST problem is going to be tougher to solve.

>Your Voice POST symptoms (no Voice POST message) means that a
>proper reset pulse is not being generated for the hardware. As
>far as I know, the Voice POST chip needs +5VSB to run (you'll
>see the green LED glowing on the motherboard, just before you
>press the power button on the front of the computer, and that
>will give some proof that the power supply is delivering +5VSB).

Yes, the board is receiving its +5VSB when powered off. No issues there.

>In addition, it needs a reset pulse that goes low and then high
>(the deasserted state is logic 1). If the reset signal is stuck
>low, this can be caused by a bad or jammed reset switch. The

I tried both inverting the reset switch connector and removing it entirely.
No effect.

I also tried turning on QFan support as another poster suggested. The
feature seems to be working in this revision of the motherboard. I can
definitely hear it turning my fan down. But it has no effect on my problem.

Unfortunately, I've been too busy to troubleshoot this for quite some time.
I'll spend some time on it today, and try to determine as conclusively as I
can which piece of hardware the problem is. I'll exchange it if I can, but
tomorrow will be 30 days after I bought it - the absolute deadline for
returns/exchanges with ZipZoomFly (I said earlier I bought it at NewEgg, I
was mistaken). I'm not sure I'll be able to call them to arrange for RMA
tomorrow, and doubt they're open today. If all else fails, I'll try to work
through the Asus RMA process.

Does anyone know, from dealing with either ZipZoomFly or Asus, whether or not
either of them will allow a cross-shipping arrangement (obviously with a
credit card number as insurance)? Since this board is only "intermittently
dead," I'd rather not be without a working PC for a week and a half or so,
while I wait for them to receive my board and ship me a replacement.

--
Erik Harris n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com
AIM: KngFuJoe http://www.eharrishome.com
Chinese-Indonesian MA Club http://cimac.eharrishome.com

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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 6, 2004 4:01:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 01:40:56 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>But, it is pretty unlikely that the A7N8X-E uses the same Vcore
>circuit as a P4P800. I only mention it, so your household has more
>than one brand of PSU available for testing.

I'll keep that in mind in the future, but I still maintain that this is an
almost-impossible scenario. The board has been around for awhile, and I've
seen no reports of incompatibility with Antec PSU's. And it is very _likely_
that this board uses the same Vcore circuit as the A7N8X Deluxe, which I used
with this PSU without any problems, until I ran into a problem with 200MHz
FSB (original nForce2, not nForce2 Ultra400) that fried that board's BIOS (I
apparently need to ship it back to Asus with $5 for reflashing).

--
Erik Harris n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com
AIM: KngFuJoe http://www.eharrishome.com
Chinese-Indonesian MA Club http://cimac.eharrishome.com

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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 6, 2004 4:03:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 19:19:15 GMT, John Crawford <u1f6060@shaw.ca> wrote:

>Did you try clearing the system setup parameters in CMOS, then setting
>the BIOS to load default settings.

Yes, I've reset the BIOS. It had no effect on this problem. As I think I
said earlier, I'm suspecting that this problem happens before the BIOS has a
chance to do anything, since it's before the POST process even gets started.

--
Erik Harris n$wsr$ader@$harrishom$.com
AIM: KngFuJoe http://www.eharrishome.com
Chinese-Indonesian MA Club http://cimac.eharrishome.com

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Replace each dollar sign with an "e" for the correct address.
!