Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (
More info?)
On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:41:17 -0400, w_tom <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote:
> For some reason, implied is that a 'whole house' protector
>is the magic protection device. Protector is nothing more
>than an electrical switch or an electrical wire. Protector is
>trivial. Your attention has been diverted to the one thing
>you can see. Protection - a different device - is important
>and forgotten because it is not visible. Earth ground (into
>the protectors) is the 'state of art' protection. You
>suffered damage. Therefore something is wrong with your
>'state of art' protection.
>
> You suffered damage. Somehow a transient got inside the
>house. It should not. Therefore your protection system has a
>serious defect.
Maybe I didn't make this clear. I just moved. The whole-house
suppressor is at the new house, and there was NO electrical storm here
when the second NIC went out. I think this device failed from some
reason OTHER than a line surge
>
> The 'whole house' protector is only secondary protection.
>Start by inspecting your primary protection, if possible.
>Pictures that demonstrate a defective primary protection
>system:
>
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html
>
> Now we move on to the secondary protection system. Does
>every incoming utility make a 'less than ten foot' connection
>to that SPG? If not (if any incoming utility wire connects to
>some other earth ground), then you don't have effective
>protection. For example, plug-in protectors (power strip and
>UPS) make no 'less than 10 foot' connection from AC electric
>to earth ground. Therefore they are ineffective AND may even
>contribute to appliance surge damage. A protector is not
>protection. Unfortunately you imply otherwise. A protector
>is effective when it shunts (diverts, connects, acts like a
>wire) the transient from each utility wire, less than 10 feet,
>to the single point earth ground (SPG).
>
> Your posted chart of cable connections implies you don't
>understand how cable is surge protected. Cable needs no
>connection to a 'whole house' protector. Cable should be
>earthed to the same earth ground before even entering the
>building. This even required by National Electrical Code
>(NEC). A ground block that costs maybe $2 in Home Depot
>connects that earthing wire to incoming cable. Cable company
>should have installed it. The protector for cable is simply a
>copper wire from ground block to earth ground rod. No 'whole
>house' protector required for cable. What does a surge
>protector becomes during a transient? An electrical wire.
>Protection is defined by the earth ground rod - the SPG.
>'State of the art' is not a protector. 'State of the art' is
>defined by the quality of that SPG and how wires connect to
>that SPG.
As mentioned clearly in my other posts, the incoming cable is grounded
before entry to the house. And, no, I don't understand how cable is
surge protected. God knows I'm sorry, but I'm a physician, not an
electrician or computer engineer.
>
> In the meantime, previously defined: those plug-in power
>strip and UPS protectors are ineffective. They enrich the
>manufacturer. Obviously. How far away is the SPG? More than
>10 feet? So manufacturer forgets to mention they don't
>protect from the destructive type of surge, such as you have
>apparently suffered. That's correct. They only claim to
>protect from a type of surge that does not typically exist and
>that is made redundant by internal appliance protection. The
>protector is only as effective as its earth ground. So
>instead, the manufacturer remains dumb.
The Web sites explaining whole-house surge suppression are all very
clear that the store-bought surge suppressors SHOULD be used IN
ADDITION to the whole-house suppressor.
>
> Is the computer protected? Then your diagram must show the
>computer in relation to each single point earth ground. SPG
>is the protection; not a power strip or APC UPS. Moreso,
>those plug-in protectors can even contribute to damage of the
>adjacent electronics. Your protection system has a problem.
>So we suspect a problem with where protection is provided -
>the SPG or connections to that SPG.
I cannot reconcile this with what I've gathered about whole-house
suppression as presented for laymen on several Web sites devoted to
the subject. Your undoubtedly correct, but you're beyond my
understanding at this point.
>
> Earthing wire from protector to earth ground must be
>separated from all other wires. For example, some think a
>plug-in protector is earthed through the wall receptacle's
>safety ground. How does that connection get made? A safety
>ground wire is bundled with other wires. It can induce
>transients onto those other wires. It is bundled with other
>wires AND is too distant from SPG. Therefore the plug-in
>protector is not earthed - does nothing effective.
>
> Same might be true of your 'whole house' protector. How
>does the wire route from protector to a single point earth
>ground? Distance? Sharp bends? Through any conduit or other
>metallic container? Bundled with what? No splices? Each
>earthing wire must no be shared until all earthing wires
>connect to the SPG. These are important questions answered by
>a visual inspection. You suffered damage. Discover why the
>system was compromised. How does each incoming utility wire
>connect to that SPG?
>
> What type of soil? A quality SPG (and not the protector) is
>important. Many now install two earth ground rods - one being
>insufficient - due to non-conductive soils. What makes a Ben
>Franklin lightning rod effective? Not pointed rod verse blunt
>rod. That was hype. Quality of the earth ground and how that
>lighting rod connects to earth. Surge protectors are doing
>same. A surge protector is only as effective as its earth
>ground. So how good is your earthing soil?
>
> If damage exists, then your earthing system may have
>problems. Things often overlooked because the installer did
>not understand, for example, the "less than 10 feet" concept.
>Or because one incoming utility is using a separate earth
>ground - very bad. Or because something geological has
>compromised your single point earth ground. Your secondary
>protection system (which defines the 'whole house' protector)
>apparently has been compromised.
>
> Nothing here should be 'over your head'. The complicated
>stuff has been removed. An introduction to concepts was
>posted previously at "Pull the wall plug or not?" in
>nz.comp on 7 Sept 2004 at
>
http://tinyurl.com/5ttwl
>
> Effective surge protection does same thing as the Ben
>Franklin air terminal as taught in elementary school science.
>Its not complicated other than following certain important
>rules such as only one earth ground - the single point earth
>ground. "Less than ten foot" from each incoming utility to
>that SPG. But this we know even from your damage. The surge
>did enter from outside. Your damage is typical of an
>electrical circuit from cloud to earth. For some reason,
>electricity had to find earth ground, destructively via your
>cable network. Your damage is a classic example of surges
>entering from outside.
>
>Milleron wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 11:07:06 -0400, w_tom <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks for responding. Most of what you're explaining here is over my
>> head, but I think that my whole-house surge suppressor and
>> single-point ground are done correctly. See info below.
>>
>> > First review primary school science. Electricity that does
>> >not flow in a complete circuit does not exist. It does not
>> >flow like an ocean wave. Electricity flows through everything
>> >in that circuit simultaneously - or it does not flow at all.
>> >IOW things don't get damaged as the ocean wave passes
>> >through. A surge flows through everything in the circuit. And
>> >only after the flow exists, does something in that circuit
>> >finally fail.
>> >
>> > So where did the surge enter? Is cable properly installed?
>> >That means cable drops down to make a less than 10 foot
>> >connection to an earth ground rod before rising back up to
>> >enter building. It properly earthed, then the surge never
>> >entered via that path.
>> Right. I don't think it entered from outside. I know that the cable
>> is connected directly to the ground rod before entering the building
>> (my condo is new construction and I had the cable installer explain to
>> me what he was doing as he brought it into the unit). The AC goes
>> through a state-of-the-art whole-house surge suppressor and then
>> through an APC UPS. AC to the cable modem's transformer goes through
>> a cheapy surge-suppressor power strip in addition to the whole-house
>> suppressor..
>> The cable follows this route:
>> whole-house suppressor --> cable modem --> VOIP phone adapter -->
>> Linksys router --> ethernet from basement to den --> Linksys switch
>> --> NIC.
>> ...
Ron