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And You Thought Fox News Was Biased ...

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Quote :

Iran, whose president has labeled the attempt by Nazi Germany to exterminate Jews during World War II a "myth" and called for the destruction of Israel, announced Sunday it will hold a conference on the Holocaust.

"There will be a conference that will research the topic of the Holocaust and all its dimensions in the future," according to a statement on the state-run Islamic Republic News Agency (IRNA).



Iran plans Holocaust conference

Oh, I'm sure we'll get this cleared up once and for all now ... :evil:

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Although I could easily jump in on the Iranian president bashing I think it's important to recognize how he got there in the first place.

In 1953 the Eisenhower administration helped overthrow the elected Prime Minister in order to put the Shaw back in power. The Shaw was of course pro modernization and pro american. It wasn't until 1979 that he was ousted from power. In his place an anti-american radical took his place and now we have all these problems.

Reply to dhlucke

i think Iran would have had a huge moral standing point if it had never made coments about the holocaust.

i think raising that in the debate will only work against them.

everything else they are saying can not be argued against by other countries due to hypocracy. but that one issue is not really up for debate in to many peoples opinions.

Iran getting labeled as hitler will only make people stop things before they happen..... if they had not talked about any genocide (they could fairly and civily talk about getting rid of Isreal as a debate topic, but not in relation to the holocaust) then they would have been sweet.

Alltaken

Reply to alltaken
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Quote :

Although I could easily jump in on the Iranian president bashing I think it's important to recognize how he got there in the first place.


I don't see the importance of it. And your post does nothing to explain how this particular idiot rose to power.

Reply to _WW_

Quote :

In 1953 the Eisenhower administration helped overthrow the elected Prime Minister in order to put the Shaw back in power. The Shaw was of course pro modernization and pro american. It wasn't until 1979 that he was ousted from power. In his place an anti-american radical took his place and now we have all these problems.



From the looks of things now ... Ike made a decent decision then ...

But this topic shows how serious topics are almost not possible here in the other anymore ... we used to be able to do these ... it's degenerated even more than I thought. :(

Reply to Jake_Barnes
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I disagree.

They had an elected representative and we imposed upon them our will. This created anti-american sentiment so when they finally got the chance they toppled the shaw, took over our embassy, made us look like idiots, and now they are extremely anti-american, developing nuclear weapons, and all the while sitting on one of the largest oil reserves.

Reply to dhlucke
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How does an extremist become leader though? Through intimidation and threats, killings, etc.

He used threats and killed people to get to where he is now. He was once their leader, took a leave, and now he's back again.

Why? Everything favored the other fella to win the election but out of no where, he makes his comeback and wins heavily? How so?

Reply to Riser

Been a while back. Do you remember the particulars? My guess is that this Islam thing was going to happen no matter what. Our mistake was allowing that Ayatollah Khomeini to return ... Carter, I think set by while this guy held an election (kind of like Saddam's election - one candidate) and declared an Islamic republic ... when we allowed the exiled Shaw into this country for medical treatment, they took over our embassy ... and Carter broke weak - big time.

Some interesting background:

Quote :

Fundamentalist measures followed, and revolutionary committees patrolled the streets enforcing Islamic codes of behaviour and dress. Efforts were made to suppress Western influence, and many of the Western-educated elite fled the country.



Source: The Iranian Revolution 1978-1979

They have their democratic government back now ... much like Germany elected Hitler in the 30's ...

Sometimes, people get the kind of government they deserve.

Reply to Jake_Barnes
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Right, but we fed that movement. The Shaw was pro-american and did a lot of western modernization. So when he was overthrown they pretty much used the anti-american sentiment to do the exact opposite.

What I'm not familiar with is how this current guy got in power. I would assume their elections today are much like those in the former Soviet Union.

Reply to dhlucke

I think it's hilarious (tragic really) that the current President of Iran, Mahmoud
Ahmadinejad, who we believe was on of the "criminals" who kidnapped our diplomaticlly protected embassy employees and foreign officers, is holding a conference on the Holocaust ... talking about a transparent attempt at historical revision.

It's like John Gotti holding a conference on law enforcement.

Reply to Jake_Barnes
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History has been rewritten many times before. It's not like he's the first to try.

Reply to dhlucke
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history is based on who you ask. Civilizations don't recall their defeats...they just record victories. So whoever has power at the time writes the history books.

Reply to qoop

An now, another interesting artice on the topic:

Quote :

Iran stepped up its defiance of international pressure over its nuclear programme yesterday by warning of soaring oil prices if it is subjected to economic sanctions. As diplomats from the US, Europe, Russia, and China prepared to meet today in London to discuss referring Tehran to the UN security council, Iran's economy minister, Davoud Danesh-Jafari, said the country's position as the world's fourth-largest oil producer meant such action would have grave consequences ... "Any possible sanctions from the west could possibly, by disturbing Iran's political and economic situation, raise oil prices beyond levels the west expects," he told Iranian state radio.

In a provocative move, Iran also announced plans yesterday to convene a "scientific" conference to examine the evidence supporting the Holocaust. The news comes weeks after President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad provoked a global outcry by describing the slaughter of 6 million Jews by the Nazis in the second world war as a "myth"....



Source: Iran issues stark warning on oil price
Robert Tait in Tehran
Monday January 16, 2006
The Guardian

These guys (actually just a handfull of extremeists, Mullahs and Imams) want nuclear power for "peaceful purposes" and they think it would be nice if Israel were annialated ...

Sure, after all, they did hold an election ...

Reply to Jake_Barnes

Quote :

history is based on who you ask. Civilizations don't recall their defeats...they just record victories. So whoever has power at the time writes the history books.



Perhaps, to a degree, in the short term ... but long term, the academicians (historians) try to get it right ... but since they can only collect a limited amount of "data points" and then tell their story through their own (conscious or sub-conscious) filters/biases ... we never quite get it right. Collect a few different observations and the whole conclusion could change.

It's this imperfect, filtered retelling of past events that make me totally distrust "history" ... it's just some authors POV.

Reply to Jake_Barnes

And this relates to Iran and their Holocaust Conference how?

Reply to Jake_Barnes
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I would tend to agree with you up until the last 100-200 years.

With photography coming out, more educated people, recording has become better.

I don't think it would be easy to rewrite history today as it was 200-300 years ago.

Case in point: Going to war with Iraq. Dems are saying it's a big screw up. Go back a couple years, there they are saying they're all for it. They're trying to rewrite it but history was written.. basically in Real Time.. not a week or 2 months after the accounts.

Reply to Riser
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Don't mind about Jake, goop. He is again doing his eternal God sent mission to purify Other forum from heretics like you who dare to post short but unholy side notes about your self.

Let's get SERIOUS folks

Reply to Era
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I think he needs to get in touch with his 'touchy feely' side more often. lol.
what's wrong with making personal friends in the forum?

Reply to qoop
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Nothing what so ever.

Reply to Era
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right.....I like to know that the ppl I'm talking with aren't machines....


the jury's out on Jake, although he seems like a very nice machine. :wink:

Reply to qoop

Great - good to see you had something constuctive to add ... not.

Reply to Jake_Barnes
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aww.....don't be mad Jakey....we're just teasing.

Reply to qoop

Quote :

I think he needs to get in touch with his 'touchy feely' side more often. lol.
what's wrong with making personal friends in the forum?



I've got an idea ... you could start a qoop thread and meet all of your friends there ... perhaps, then you wouldn't feel the need to be so ubiquitous ...

Reply to Jake_Barnes
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are you saying I post too much? I don't make friends in threads cause ppl put on a front. I do it in PMs where ppl feel more comfortable discussing their true selves.

Reply to qoop

I wrote this earlier ... did you read the whole thread?

Quote :

But this topic shows how serious topics are almost not possible here in the other anymore ... we used to be able to do these ... it's degenerated even more than I thought.

Reply to Jake_Barnes
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it would take me a lifetime to read everything that's been posted in every thread.....I just skip to the last part of the thread cause the topic always changes at the bottom of the thread anyway....

Reply to qoop
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When was the last time you had a conversation that lasted 2 hours on the same subject start to finish with 4 people?

You probably didn't unless you were in a class somewhere. Conversations flow and transistion.

If you or I were to post on the original topic, no one would have a clue what it was about..

Reply to Riser
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or it would become mundane and we'd start repeating ourselves.

Reply to qoop

Quote :

it would take me a lifetime to read everything that's been posted in every thread.....I just skip to the last part of the thread cause the topic always changes at the bottom of the thread anyway....



You make my point.

Reply to Jake_Barnes
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I never argued the fact that the thread changes at the end......I totally and whole-heartedly agree.

I'm just saying it's a natural evolution of thoughts and conversations. To try to squelch that evolution would be to stop the conversation at a certain point and then no new ideas can form.

I understand your wanting of a purist thread, but it wouldn't last long and it wouldn't have creative and flowing thoughts....

Reply to qoop
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So what are your thoughts on Connie Rice against Hillary in the next presidential race?

Reply to Riser

Quote :

So what are your thoughts on Connie Rice against Hillary in the next presidential race?



I'll let you know if they get nominated ... then we will get their take on how they might deal with Iran issue.

Reply to Jake_Barnes
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Ahh it's all up for consideration.. someone out there is thinking about it.

Hillary could be the first female president.. but Connie takes the cake being the first female and black president.

It was a topic that came up over the weekend at a company dinner. Thought I'd toss it out there.

Reply to Riser
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how do you think it should be handled? what's your perspective?

what would happen if you wrote the candidates letters on what you think should be done and see what happens? You're very literate and I'm sure they'll take your words into consideration.

Stranger things have happened.

Reply to qoop

Quote :

So what are your thoughts on Connie Rice against Hillary in the next presidential race?



And ... I think John McCain is a more likely Republican Candidate. He opined in the Guardian article I quoted above:

Quote :

The Republican John McCain told CBS: "Everything else has to be exhausted, but to say under no circumstances would we exercise a military option would be crazy."



Source: Iran issues stark warning on oil price

Reply to Jake_Barnes
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Ahh I'll pass on him.

Actually during Clinton's first campaign I started trying to figure out who the next people who would run. I really haven't seen any way of figuring it out aside from who talks the biggest talk.

Reply to Riser

McCain v Hillary ... got to go with McCain.

btw, Sean Penn was quoted as saying that he couldn't quit smoking while Bush was in office ... and I thought his plan was to leave the country, along with Redford, Moore, et al.

Reply to Jake_Barnes
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Bush makes me nervous on a good day, but I'm glad he won the last election......Kerry isn't as entertaining.

Reply to qoop

If you'll remember, Kerry was "for the war", before he "was against it" ...

And divorcing his sick 1st wife to marry the former Senator John Heinz's multi-millionaire widow make Kerry (besides being a fraud) Washington's gigolo number 1.

Reply to Jake_Barnes
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that's true....Kerry and Bush have a lot of the same ideals when it came down to it, but it's better to know the devil you do than the devil you don't.


I think JFK and Clinton are good runners up for being presidential gigolos. Both were good presidents, but had problems with their zippers.....

Reply to qoop

Quote :


I don't think it would be easy to rewrite history today as it was 200-300 years ago.



I think these days its less about availability of fact, and more about cconveying of opinion.

those who watch fox will undoubtedly have a vastly different opinion of the same situation compared to those who watch BBC.

sad but true.

Alltaken

Reply to alltaken

Quote :

...are good runners up for being presidential gigolos. Both were good presidents, but had problems with their zippers.....



well those who get sex arn't busy thinking about blowing crap up, they are more concerned with rolling over.....

there was a case here of a violent mental patient.... all they needed to do to stop him damaging himself, people, or property was get him a hooker often enough to keep his testosterone levels down.

all illegal of course... but who cares.

i don't see why sex is more of a sin than violence. it baffles me, but it seems that way (one breast=R18, 500 deaths = PG).

Alltaken

Reply to alltaken
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Quote :

I think these days its less about availability of fact, and more about cconveying of opinion.



You said it perfectly.. don't let it go to your head though.

Reply to Riser
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Quote :

...are good runners up for being presidential gigolos. Both were good presidents, but had problems with their zippers.....



well those who get sex arn't busy thinking about blowing crap up, they are more concerned with rolling over.....

there was a case here of a violent mental patient.... all they needed to do to stop him damaging himself, people, or property was get him a hooker often enough to keep his testosterone levels down.

all illegal of course... but who cares.

i don't see why sex is more of a sin than violence. it baffles me, but it seems that way (one breast=R18, 500 deaths = PG).

Alltaken

Your theory is flawed. Ever heard of the Cuban Missile Crisis?

Reply to dhlucke
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that was all based on hearsay and assumptions....plus nothing ever happened with that.....I'm sure if Bush was in power you would have seen some action though.

Reply to qoop

Quote :

that was all based on hearsay and assumptions....plus nothing ever happened with that.....I'm sure if Bush was in power you would have seen some action though.



Are you nuts ... it was based on confirmed U2 photo's, The Soviets confirmed it ... and we saw the missiles being removed. Hearsay - that's crazy.

Reply to Jake_Barnes
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Cuban Missile Crisis ended after a US blockade of Cuba.. they stopped some ships carrying the missiles. Said we'd sink them if they passed the blockade. That wasn't a joke at all.. heh

Reply to Riser
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They're all nuts. :roll:

Reply to Riser

I don't know how she could have said such a misinformed thing. :o

qoop needs to stick to Belgian Milk Chocolate and stay out of serious discussions if that's what she knows.

Reply to Jake_Barnes
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