Recommendations for the best possible Socket A motherboard?

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I already have an Abit NF7-S v2.0 motherboard. However, a digital tv card in
conjunction with and SATA striped RAID array it won't work properly. I had
held out hope that there would be a decent Nforce2 MCP-S motherboard but
that doesn't seem to be the case, anyone know any better than me???

I'm basically looking for something as good as the one I have right now but
with SATA RAID properly implemented.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Best regards

tHatDudeUK
 
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"tHatDudeUK" <thatdudeuk.spammersareevil.@rapidplay.com> wrote in message
news:2uuq6pF2eni8pU1@uni-berlin.de...
> I already have an Abit NF7-S v2.0 motherboard. However, a digital tv card
in
> conjunction with and SATA striped RAID array it won't work properly. I had
> held out hope that there would be a decent Nforce2 MCP-S motherboard but
> that doesn't seem to be the case, anyone know any better than me???
>
> I'm basically looking for something as good as the one I have right now
but
> with SATA RAID properly implemented.
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

A7N8X-E deluxe? Uses the MCP-T chipset though.
HTH
--
Rob
 
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"Rob Hemmings" <No-one@nowhere.con> wrote in message
news:cmdcv1$74m$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...
> A7N8X-E deluxe? Uses the MCP-T chipset though.
> HTH

Yeah I'm guessing that will have the same problem as I have now. It's
starting to look like my only option to get my TV card working again is to
go with either Intel Pentium 4 or AMD 64bit....
 
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"tHatDudeUK" <thatdudeuk.spammersareevil.@rapidplay.com> wrote in message
news:2uusfjF2ffn6eU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Rob Hemmings" <No-one@nowhere.con> wrote in message
> news:cmdcv1$74m$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...
> > A7N8X-E deluxe? Uses the MCP-T chipset though.
> > HTH
>
> Yeah I'm guessing that will have the same problem as I have now. It's
> starting to look like my only option to get my TV card working again is to
> go with either Intel Pentium 4 or AMD 64bit....

Or flog it and get another make of TV card? :)
I s'pose it's worth a google to see if anyone has same TV card in an
A7N8X-E and gets problems. What card is it, btw (I have an A7N8X
deluxe 2.0 and was thinking of getting a freeview card..)
Ta
--
Rob
 
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"Rob Hemmings" <No-one@nowhere.con> wrote in message
news:cmdfog$7t6$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...
> Or flog it and get another make of TV card? :)
> I s'pose it's worth a google to see if anyone has same TV card in an
> A7N8X-E and gets problems. What card is it, btw (I have an A7N8X
> deluxe 2.0 and was thinking of getting a freeview card..)
> Ta

It's a Nebula DigiTV which cost me just over £100 at the start of this year.
I think the problem is that it's PCI. I think the USB2 version should
technically be ok (at least that's my understanding.)
 

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tHatDudeUK wrote:
> "Rob Hemmings" <No-one@nowhere.con> wrote in message
> news:cmdfog$7t6$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...
>
>>Or flog it and get another make of TV card? :)
>>I s'pose it's worth a google to see if anyone has same TV card in an
>>A7N8X-E and gets problems. What card is it, btw (I have an A7N8X
>>deluxe 2.0 and was thinking of getting a freeview card..)
>>Ta
>
>
> It's a Nebula DigiTV which cost me just over £100 at the start of this year.
> I think the problem is that it's PCI. I think the USB2 version should
> technically be ok (at least that's my understanding.)
>
>

You didn't describe your problem, but start here:

http://nforcershq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50182&start=15

About a third of the way down the page, someone advocates using
wpcredit. Perhaps you can make some sense of what they are
doing.

There are two parameters on the PCI bus that are used for
tuning performance and fairness, There is a "PCI Latency Timer",
and it is a policeman on the bus. Many BIOS expose the setting,
so you can adjust it, and modern motherboards set it to 32 or
64. The numbers are times, possibly measured in PCI bus clock
cycles, as to how long a PCI card can have bus mastership. If
a card runs for too long, the latency timer kicks the card
off the bus, and then the next card has a chance to do any
pending transfer. AFAIK PCI arbitration is round robin, so
if any card does extraordinarily long transfers, the other
cards can get "starved" for service opportunities.

A second parameter, is the burst size set by the card itself.
At one time, the recommendation for burst size, would have
been a cache-line-sized chunk. Whether that is a factor
any more or not, would depend on whether the PCI scatter
gather DMA space is cacheable or not. I would think a card
would do a single burst, and release the bus to the next
card, so if the burst on a card was set to less than the
global pci latency timer, then the cards should play nice
without needing to be thumped by the latency timer. (Of
course, if one card has its burst size set to a ridiculous
value like a burst of 1 word, it will starve itself. I
think the policy used on a proprietary system I worked on
years ago, was to always set all the cards to exactly the
same burst size, in lieu of wasting time trying to tune
them.)

Adjusting those parameters, could correct your problem.
Storage controllers are notorious for having their transfer
size set really high, to give exaggerated benchmarks.
Reducing the burst size used by the SIL3112 might help, or
reducing the PCI Latency Timer will force all PCI devices
to a common max value. (My A7N8X-E doesn't have a PCI
Latency Timer setting in the BIOS, so I guess I would need
WPCREDIT to adjust it.)

As to whether the AGP max burst needs to be adjusted, I
would only bother with that if the other adjustments aren't
helping.

Good luck,
Paul
 

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"tHatDudeUK" <thatdudeuk.spammersareevil.@rapidplay.com> wrote in message
news:2uuq6pF2eni8pU1@uni-berlin.de...

>
> I'm basically looking for something as good as the one I have right now
but
> with SATA RAID properly implemented.
>
>
>
MSI & EPoX both have new boards available in the UK using the new RAID
southbridge to keep transfers off the PCI bus.
Of course ABIT have the NF7-S2 & -S2G if you are happy to run stock/mild
overclocks.
 
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"tHatDudeUK" <thatdudeuk.spammersareevil.@rapidplay.com> wrote in message news:<2uuq6pF2eni8pU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> I already have an Abit NF7-S v2.0 motherboard. However, a digital tv card in
> conjunction with and SATA striped RAID array it won't work properly. I had
> held out hope that there would be a decent Nforce2 MCP-S motherboard but
> that doesn't seem to be the case, anyone know any better than me???
>
> I'm basically looking for something as good as the one I have right now but
> with SATA RAID properly implemented.
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>
> Best regards
>
> tHatDudeUK

I find it hard to believe that it is a hardware conflict between the
SATA raid chipset and the PCI bus. I'd bet on a driver problem.

arnie
 

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"tHatDudeUK" <thatdudeuk.spammersareevil.@rapidplay.com> wrote in message
news:2uuq6pF2eni8pU1@uni-berlin.de...
>I already have an Abit NF7-S v2.0 motherboard. However, a digital tv card
>in conjunction with and SATA striped RAID array it won't work properly. I
>had held out hope that there would be a decent Nforce2 MCP-S motherboard
>but that doesn't seem to be the case, anyone know any better than me???
>
> I'm basically looking for something as good as the one I have right now
> but with SATA RAID properly implemented.
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>
> Best regards
>
> tHatDudeUK

Depends what you want to do with it. If you want to run insanely high FSB's
then you won't do better than an nf7-s or a DFI Lanparty B or DFI Ultra
Infinity. But all of these will suffer from the problem you describe, I
would think.

The other option would be to go for something like the new Abit KW7 (KT880
board). This features the VT8237 southbridge with integrated sata raid,
i.e. the raid is not on the PCI bus.

Although it will overclock OK, I don't think you get a working PCI/AGP lock
with KT880 boards though. So realistically you are stuck with about 220MHz
max FSB.

Chip
 

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"tHatDudeUK" <thatdudeuk.spammersareevil.@rapidplay.com> wrote in
message news:2uuv22F2fdl5lU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Rob Hemmings" <No-one@nowhere.con> wrote in message
> news:cmdfog$7t6$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...
>> Or flog it and get another make of TV card? :)
>> I s'pose it's worth a google to see if anyone has same TV card in an
>> A7N8X-E and gets problems. What card is it, btw (I have an A7N8X
>> deluxe 2.0 and was thinking of getting a freeview card..)
>> Ta
>
> It's a Nebula DigiTV which cost me just over £100 at the start of this
> year. I think the problem is that it's PCI. I think the USB2 version
> should technically be ok (at least that's my understanding.)

Same setup here, (Neb / NF7s ver2 / sata raid0), what problems are you
getting, I still get some artefacts, they were a lot worse before I
increased the PCI latency.

May be worth playing around with the latency if you haven't tried
already. I have heard that showshifter gives better results but I
haven't tried it yet.

Are you getting a decent signal? I get around 80% / 23db / 0.0070 BER
on all mux's, I have read that 23-24db is the minimum for an acceptable
picture.

BTW my Hauppauge nova-t pci (first version without remote) gave me a
full signal in the same PC from the same feed, with no artefacts.

It does seem to be a pci bus problem but different cards are affected to
varying degrees, I happen to really like the DigiTV software too, it
works and looks good.

--
Apollo
 
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tHatDudeUK wrote:
> "Rob Hemmings" <No-one@nowhere.con> wrote in message
> news:cmdfog$7t6$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...
>> Or flog it and get another make of TV card? :)
>> I s'pose it's worth a google to see if anyone has same TV card in an
>> A7N8X-E and gets problems. What card is it, btw (I have an A7N8X
>> deluxe 2.0 and was thinking of getting a freeview card..)
>> Ta
>
> It's a Nebula DigiTV which cost me just over £100 at the start of
> this year. I think the problem is that it's PCI. I think the USB2
> version should technically be ok (at least that's my understanding.)

There's a recent thread on uk.tech.digital-tv where someone, (not you?) has
the same query.
I will repeat the post I made there in case it helps.
I used to have an Epox MB and a Nebula DigiTV card which had problems with
the PCI bus manifested by a reluctance to work with the remote control.
When it came to upgrade my system I wanted an Athlon cpu and NVidia chipset.
I read about the problems with SATA and the PCI bus interfering with the
Nebula on nForce2 MBs and it seemed to be down to the fact that the chipset
had no native SATA support and relied upon a Sil chip to drive it. This
apparently overloaded the PCI bus, interfering with the TV Card on
occasions.
I then learned that the later NForce2 chipsets contained there own SATA
driver and dispensed with the Sil chip.
I bought a NF7-S2G which appears to have this chipset and no Sil chip. It
works fine with the Nebula, not a even blip and the remote functions
correctly.
As long as you don't need the sophisticated overclocking functions of the
earlier NF7-xx MBs, I can recommend this MB.

However, I am not even remotely a MB Guru so others might have a different
take on this problem.

regards

Martin
 
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"Martin Prentice" <mprentice1@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:2uva3lF2g7ivaU1@uni-berlin.de...
> I then learned that the later NForce2 chipsets contained there own SATA
> driver and dispensed with the Sil chip.
> I bought a NF7-S2G which appears to have this chipset and no Sil chip. It
> works fine with the Nebula, not a even blip and the remote functions
> correctly.
> As long as you don't need the sophisticated overclocking functions of the
> earlier NF7-xx MBs, I can recommend this MB.

That motherboard would be a step down for me. I think I'm going to try sell
my PCI version and put the funds towards a USB version which will hopefully
cure my problem.
 
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tHatDudeUK wrote:
> "Martin Prentice" <mprentice1@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
> news:2uva3lF2g7ivaU1@uni-berlin.de...
>> I then learned that the later NForce2 chipsets contained there own
>> SATA driver and dispensed with the Sil chip.
>> I bought a NF7-S2G which appears to have this chipset and no Sil
>> chip. It works fine with the Nebula, not a even blip and the remote
>> functions correctly.
>> As long as you don't need the sophisticated overclocking functions
>> of the earlier NF7-xx MBs, I can recommend this MB.
>
> That motherboard would be a step down for me. I think I'm going to
> try sell my PCI version and put the funds towards a USB version which
> will hopefully cure my problem.

Yes, it probably would if you need the overclocking abilities of that
particular MB. Also, I believe that it has the Soundstorm system instead of
the rather pathetic sound system on the S2G.
However, I prefer to add my own soundcard and it has a Gbit LAN that I
wanted for media file distribution. I don't overclock, (would rather shell
out for the speed I require...I know....I'm a mug ;) )

Just a thought, have you tackled Nebula about your difficulties. They are
VERY good about exchanging PCI for USB if you can't get yours to work
properly. They offered to exchange mine but I liked it too much to mess with
USB. I believe that USB are not without problems if you check the Nebula
Forums.

Good luck with your search.

Martin
 

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snip
> There's a recent thread on uk.tech.digital-tv where someone, (not you?)
> has the same query.
snip

That was me, and I've still not made a decision on which board.
 
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"Martin Prentice" <mprentice1@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:2uvc4uF2fp9k2U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Just a thought, have you tackled Nebula about your difficulties. They are
> VERY good about exchanging PCI for USB if you can't get yours to work
> properly. They offered to exchange mine but I liked it too much to mess
> with USB. I believe that USB are not without problems if you check the
> Nebula Forums.

I bought it when they first came out in January 2003 which is quite a while
back now. I don't know if they'd be willing to swap it after I've owned it
for so long.

Where are the Nebula forums you mention?

Thanks for the help everyone.
 
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tHatDudeUK wrote:
> "tHatDudeUK" <thatdudeuk.spammersareevil.@rapidplay.com> wrote in
> message news:2uve52F2eck8mU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> http://www.mayne.org/htpc/digitv-sata-fix.php
>
> This looks useful...

Yes, that does open another path to a possible fix.

The Nebula forums I mentioned are not really dedicated to Nebula but to TV
cards including Nebula. My fault for describing them as such :(
They are at
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=42

http://www.tv-cards.com/messageboard

http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/index.php

http://forums.sudhian.com/categories.cfm?catid=51

Good luck

Martin
 
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jaime wrote:
> snip
>> There's a recent thread on uk.tech.digital-tv where someone, (not
>> you?) has the same query.
> snip
>
> That was me, and I've still not made a decision on which board.

Good luck mate.....it seems you are not alone :O)


Martin
 
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tHatDudeUK wrote:
> "tHatDudeUK" <thatdudeuk.spammersareevil.@rapidplay.com> wrote in
> message news:2uve52F2eck8mU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> http://www.mayne.org/htpc/digitv-sata-fix.php
>
> This looks useful...

I just ran a check using the i key as recommended on that site. I didn't
know that facility existed. Very useful.
Now, my H/W FBUS had a value of 1. This is above the 0 recommended but I
have a Creative Live soundcard which may account for it.
It would be interesting to know what yours is?
Anyway, I ran a defrag on the SATA drive whilst listening to a DigiTV
channel. It didn't fail and the H/W FBUS value remained at 1.
How does yours compare?

Martin
 

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"Martin Prentice" <mprentice1@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:2uvgtmF2fcr2pU1@uni-berlin.de...
> jaime wrote:
>> snip
>>> There's a recent thread on uk.tech.digital-tv where someone, (not
>>> you?) has the same query.
>> snip
>>
>> That was me, and I've still not made a decision on which board.
>
> Good luck mate.....it seems you are not alone :O)
>

Looking at the latest beta reminded me that I also wanted to make sure that
the board will run fine with 2 DigiTV cards, which probably complicates
things further.
 

jaime

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snip
>>
> MSI & EPoX both have new boards available in the UK using the new RAID
> southbridge to keep transfers off the PCI bus.
snip

Which model numbers are the boards with the new Southbridge?

Thanks
 

BUFF

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"jaime" <usernet@jaimem.org.uk> wrote in message
news:418ac29a$0$549$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
> snip
> >>
> > MSI & EPoX both have new boards available in the UK using the new RAID
> > southbridge to keep transfers off the PCI bus.
> snip
>
> Which model numbers are the boards with the new Southbridge?
>
> Thanks
>
EPoX 8RDA6+
MSI K7N2 DELTA2-LSR
MSI K7N2 DELTA2-FSR
MSI K7N2 DELTA2-Platinum
 
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"Martin Prentice" <mprentice1@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:2uvig0F2g6aunU1@uni-berlin.de...
> I just ran a check using the i key as recommended on that site. I didn't
> know that facility existed. Very useful.
> Now, my H/W FBUS had a value of 1. This is above the 0 recommended but I
> have a Creative Live soundcard which may account for it.
> It would be interesting to know what yours is?
> Anyway, I ran a defrag on the SATA drive whilst listening to a DigiTV
> channel. It didn't fail and the H/W FBUS value remained at 1.
> How does yours compare?

Unfortunately I can't get anything to change at all. I get a CMD SATA
adapter listed which is already set at 32 latency and if I change it to 8,
the next time i look at the box it's greyed out and there's no change to
digitv.
 

chip

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"tHatDudeUK" <thatdudeuk.spammersareevil.@rapidplay.com> wrote in message
news:2uvf8mF2fqke2U1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "tHatDudeUK" <thatdudeuk.spammersareevil.@rapidplay.com> wrote in message
> news:2uve52F2eck8mU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> http://www.mayne.org/htpc/digitv-sata-fix.php
>
> This looks useful...

I told you it was a PCI latency issue about 1 year ago. Do you remember?
;-)

Chip
 
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"Chip" <anneonymouse@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:2v0skgF2ecui5U1@uni-berlin.de...
> I told you it was a PCI latency issue about 1 year ago. Do you remember?
> ;-)

Indeed but the problem got worse when I moved from a single SATA drive to 2
in a RAID0. It wasn't much of a problem then but it's unusable now. That
software doesn't seem to do anything, I have tested it. I have also tried a
BIOS update with a BIOS modded to have the latest SATA BIOS.

Changing the latency in the BIOS seems to have no effect. It would appear to
be as that site suggests, the SATA has it's own latency setting which the
manufacturer's set sky high to get slightly better benchmarks.

I think my only solution is to move to the USB version or buy a new
motherboard.