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The dems say voter ID laws are unconstitutional ...

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June 3, 2012 4:51:17 PM

They love to throw the word 'constitutional' and 'unconstitutional' around a lot yet few of them have ever even read it. They never give the article, clause, or amendment that any given law violates either. Have you noticed that?
June 3, 2012 8:48:42 PM

Those are big words, so let them interpret it for the people, adding more only confuses more.
I think it was Clintons last run where at the NDC, they didnt have 1 businessman there as a representative, which is very telling.
They are so out of touch with whats needed in this country, and playing games to get re/elected does this country no good.
June 4, 2012 2:54:29 AM

Oldmangamer_73 said:
They love to throw the word 'constitutional' and 'unconstitutional' around a lot yet few of them have ever even read it. They never give the article, clause, or amendment that any given law violates either. Have you noticed that?
I notice the Republicans will never have new concepts and adhere to the same *** they have for years screwing the poor and middle class and cut taxes for the rich.
June 4, 2012 12:09:56 PM

Country has been doing pretty well under Republican concepts.. introduce a Democrat concept and things start sucking.

Nearly 4 years for the current administration to do something and we're still waiting.
June 4, 2012 12:21:41 PM

Again im not sure I follow.... I thought that voting was a constitutional right, and going to a political event wasn't. Have any of you ever been to a concert with ticket pre-orders?

Am i Missing something?

BTW there are some messed up people that go to that breitbart site.... Check those comments, lunatics.
June 4, 2012 1:06:30 PM

wanamingo said:
Again im not sure I follow.... I thought that voting was a constitutional right, and going to a political event wasn't. Have any of you ever been to a concert with ticket pre-orders?

Am i Missing something?

BTW there are some messed up people that go to that breitbart site.... Check those comments, lunatics.


Actually the constitution covers elections and election law (briefly) but says nothing about a peoples' vote. The Constitution expressly gives the power to control elections, and election law, to each state legislature. The US Congress does have the power to "make or alter such regulations" through law.

There is only one reason to be against this common sense idea of showing a photo ID to vote. They want to commit voter fraud, simple as that. A photo ID is $5 at the DMV. There is no excuse to not have one.

An ID will prevent things like this:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/08/DC-P...
June 4, 2012 1:08:14 PM

Constitional right to citizens. How does one prove you are a citizen?
June 4, 2012 1:38:12 PM

Im not saying its not really easy to get an ID. What Im saying is that the author is comparing potatoes to octopi. These events might as well be concerts, its just a bunch of older white guys pandering to their demographics.

Whats worse voter fraud or voter suppression? There is no reason you couldn't be a citizen and not have an ID, its not legally required to have one to be a citizen. I actually thought that the more libertarian, Tea Party types would be against voter ID, since its not constitutional.

Also if you look into special ballots, Mr. O'keefe really showed nothing...... because hopefully Mr. Holder would go to vote later that day and find out he could no longer vote on a regular ballot, hence the "Special" ballot. And if you look up the statistics, and im not kidding... its something like 0.00009% in the 2004 election (I dont have the source). So why would the GOP want to disenfranchise millions of Americans (Mostly Black, Hispanic, Asian, and other minorities) over a very very small problem? It seems to me to be more of a ploy to keep voters (Mainly minorities) from voting democratic, like the minority vote has traditionally done.

Check here http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/case_studies_by_state/
June 4, 2012 1:45:52 PM

It isn't a small problem.

I did not vote for Obama. When my record was pulled I was listed as having voted for Obama. I'm a registered Democrat.

Thousands of dead people often wake up to vote. That can easily turn the tide in a city which can change the political atmosphere of a state.

Look at Al Franken.. he loses and then out of no where they find boxes of ballots floating in a river and one in the back of a car that someone forgot to drop off? Even after they had confirmed all districts were reporting in?

I believe everyone should get one free State ID every four years. If you lose it, go buy another one for $18.50. The State ID requires that you provide additional information about yourself to prove you are a citizen. I do not understand how verifying someone is a citizen with the right to vote is such an issue? I would think this should be a requirement.
In fact, it is not unconstitional to demand proof that one is a citizen. It is a constitutional requirement to be a citizen to vote. Are the masses that stupid that we neglect a validate a simple requirement that our Constitution demands?
June 4, 2012 1:56:54 PM

^^ Exactly! Look at the 2000 election in Florida. Everytime they re-counted the ballots, they kept "finding" more votes for both Bush and Gore. Mostly Gore.

It is not unconstitutional. If you think so, please give the article, section, clause, or amendment that makes it so.

Article 1, section 4 expressly gives the states legislature the power to control the manner, time, and place, with the US congress having the power to change or alter such regulations at any time.

It could be argued the 24th amendment applies to this, but as riser said that could easily be solved by issuing a free state ID to every citizen of that state. This would help curtail illegals from voting as well.
June 4, 2012 2:31:24 PM

riser said:
It isn't a small problem.

I did not vote for Obama. When my record was pulled I was listed as having voted for Obama. I'm a registered Democrat.

Thousands of dead people often wake up to vote. That can easily turn the tide in a city which can change the political atmosphere of a state.

Look at Al Franken.. he loses and then out of no where they find boxes of ballots floating in a river and one in the back of a car that someone forgot to drop off? Even after they had confirmed all districts were reporting in?

I believe everyone should get one free State ID every four years. If you lose it, go buy another one for $18.50. The State ID requires that you provide additional information about yourself to prove you are a citizen. I do not understand how verifying someone is a citizen with the right to vote is such an issue? I would think this should be a requirement.
In fact, it is not unconstitional to demand proof that one is a citizen. It is a constitutional requirement to be a citizen to vote. Are the masses that stupid that we neglect a validate a simple requirement that our Constitution demands?


And I thought the controversy with Franken was with convicted felons voting. I know you dont like it but there is nothing in the constitution about requiring an ID to be a citizen, it again clearly states that a citizen can vote in a presidential election. What you are saying is that to be a citizen of the USA you need a photo ID. I cant speak for your own personal experience riser because I don't know what you mean by "When my record was pulled...".

I thought you guys were for small government now you want the gov to track down every single person and force them to get a photo ID? Seems a bit draconian... And don't lose it or you'll have to pay for another one lol. I know you don't like it that Franken won and there were numerous recounts but how would a photo ID have helped this at all? It wouldn't have stopped some idiot from letting felons vote, hell even best case scenario it might affect half of the .00004% voter fraud rate. How would it stop double voting (Or multiple), Write in fraud, bought votes, it wont even stop non-citizens.

Jeez I had a fake Photo ID (the photo cost extra) when I was 19 for ummm voter fraud...... Now if it is really easy to get a fake ID how are we helping?

What you really need to do if you are serious is some retinal scans and maybe a few drops of DNA. The constitution says that everyone over the age of 18 can vote, unless you are a felon or havent paid taxes in a long long time ( I dont think Wesley Snipes will be voting this November). Seems pretty straightforward. The difference between buying beer and cigs vs voting for president is one of two of those aren't constitutional rights.

How long before the GOP says OK now that we all have our ID's to vote we dont really think its fair that people who dont have jobs should vote either, since they dont contribute. Its a slipper slope, everyone gets a vote. Period.
June 4, 2012 2:55:59 PM

The constitution gives the states the power to require a photo ID to vote, not to be citizen. The states make election law, not the constitution. You don't have to have a photo ID to live, but guess what? You can't vote without one.

I'll say it again. The only reason not to support this is if you want to commit voter fraud. Simple as that.
June 4, 2012 2:56:03 PM

Franken was about the ballot boxes found afterward and the dead people voting.

Let me ask you again, how do you prove that you are a citizen in the US? You need a social security number or a birth certificate. In order to get most IDs, you must present these to the office and then you get issued your ID. The ID is verification that you proved you are a US citizen.

So your solution is to let anyone vote, regardless of them being a citizen or not, or a foreigner visiting? The current voting process is flawed that I just tell them who I am, sign my name, and vote away? Do you not think the current system is flawed?

If you want to buy alcohol, you must have an ID. If you want to fly, you must have an ID. If you have an encounter with the police, you must have an ID. You can't easily go about giving out your social security number, especially en mass with voting. That would allow too many non-certified or verified people access to that information. Thus, with the limitations, the best method is to have a photo ID. From there, each State should have their requirements in line to issue that Photo ID.

It is not a slippery slope. We are talking about citizens, nothing else. That's a big leap to make your argument. You're jumping to that conclusion before you even address the issue of dead people voting and illegals voting.

Again, I ask you for the 3rd time: How do you prove you are a citizen of the U.S. and eligible to vote?
June 4, 2012 3:29:08 PM

riser said:

Again, I ask you for the 3rd time: How do you prove you are a citizen of the U.S. and eligible to vote?


Dont they have voter registration in your state? I thought everyone at one point has to register to vote, I did..... Some states will even give you a specific Voter ID(Dun dun dun!!!!) that you have to bring with you.

Oh and I found this out in the last few minutes: North Dakota is the only state that requires no registration! And only Maine, Minnesota, and Wisconsin allow their citizens to register on Election Day.

So just for kicks I looked up the Vermont voter and registration rules and here is what I found

Quote:

You can vote in Vermont ONLY if you:
1 are a citizen of the United States;
2. Are a resident of Vermont and a resident of the town in which you apply to be added to the checklist;
3. take, or have previously taken, the Voter's Oath (formerly called the "Freeman's Oath"); and
4. is 18 years of age or more.
(b) Any person meeting the requirements of subdivision (a)(1)-(3) of this section who will be 18 years on or before the date of a general election may register and vote in the primary election immediately preceding that general election.
17 V.S.A. § 2121,2122


And here is what it said about registration:

Quote:
How to Register to Vote

Complete the Applications for Addition to the Checklist. You must include your Vermont Driver's License Number on the form. If you do not have a Vermont Driver's License Number or if your license is suspended, include the last 4 digits of your Social Security Number. Be sure to take the Voter’s Oath if you have not voted in Vermont before. Once it is completed you must submit the form to the Town or City Clerk in the town or city in which you reside. You will also be given an opportunity to register to vote when you register your car, get a driver’s license or renew your registration or license.


So its not like I can go and grab as many ballots as I want and start checking them off lol. So you have to register to vote, and you have to have some proof that the person you say you are and your SSN match up, at least in Vermont.

So again I ask you how will forcing people to get ID's make elections less prone to corruption, neither of you have said.

Also,

How prevalent is voter fraud? I have some info saying its almost neglible how many votes are fraud. You also put a lot of emphasis on the person casting the vote, what about the people counting? You think they are all so altruistic that no one smudges a few votes here and there? Its also per vote punishment, 5 years and 10,000$ per vote cast illegally. The problem is not with the public not having IDs the problem is with the people counting and those electronic ballot boxes, they arent exactly fool proof.
June 4, 2012 4:50:16 PM

Registration can easily be side-stepped. Just register multiple names. All you need is a few hundred people voting multiple times to sway a local or state election.

Cases of voter fraud since Nov. 2011. These are just the ones who got caught.

http://www.rnla.org/votefraud.asp
June 4, 2012 5:00:29 PM

Ok, that puts you on the list to be allowed to vote. You show up, tell them who you are and sign your name.

Wouldn't work so well in a bank. I walk up and say I'm so and so and withdraw money. They check my ID.

Some places do give out ID cards which is one method. It is still a form of ID. The vast majority of people have a State ID or a Driver's license, or some form of identification for themselves. Simply signing your name when present is not enough to reduce voter fraud.
June 4, 2012 5:24:03 PM

Alright Im going to say this one more time. No where does it say you have to have a PHOTO ID to vote for the president of the USA.

You are not constitutionally protected from buying booze or going to a bank, you are however constitutionally guaranteed a vote regardless of whether or not you have an ID. You register to vote and then vote....

Neither of you have also made a compelling case for this tech. Would you make a photo copy of every ID? Thumb print? Write the numbers down? Increase the bureaucracy to the point where we have a year long re-count? Are my taxes going to pay for every person to get an ID, even if they dont want one? And the stink the conservatives threw about the census.... you guys amaze me... its double speak left and right!

An ID is not fool proof, any kid can get an ID.... or so i am told.... This wont solve any problems people will still game the system. An ID is no safer than registering to vote and voting. The only difference you will have made is removed a handful of people trying to take advantage of the registration process and remove millions of Americans (Mostly minority) from the voting pool. That's what this is all about, you read about this on your conservative websites and it whips you up into a fervor where you don't even care about the facts anymore.

It simply makes no sense to solve a non-existent problem by changing the constitution and alienating millions of eligible voters.

And @ Oldman read the links to the site you posted. All of the Florida ones link to the same article.....and its for a school board. LOL.

Same with the next state they all link to one article..... you are kind of proving my point that this is such a non-existent issue that the conservative right wants to make a problem so they can keep people who would normally vote for the democratic party out of teh voting booths.

Also your first example in that link THE GUY HAD AN ID AND SS#! That's called identity theft, him providing a valid ID was part of the problem. Another one 404'd :(  . Honestly enforcing voter ID laws would have fixed a few issue mentioned in the article provided but not all of them.

I also like how I bend over backwards to make sure I don't link to sites with offensive comm enters but I guess you guys are immune to that :) 
June 4, 2012 5:32:07 PM

Sounds like typical discrimination to me. It echos the Jim Crow laws of the past, are we not past this as a nation?

Echoing the language of the 15th Amendment, the Act prohibits states from imposing any "voting qualification or prerequisite to voting, or standard, practice, or procedure ... to deny or abridge the right of any citizen of the United States to vote on account of race or color."[3] Specifically, Congress intended the Act to outlaw the practice of requiring otherwise qualified voters to pass literacy tests in order to register to vote, a principal means by which Southern states had prevented African-Americans from exercising the franchise.[2] The Act was signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson, a Democrat, who had earlier signed the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964 into law.
June 4, 2012 5:37:22 PM

So, apply the law to work within the constitution, simple as that.
Whats the harm here? Inconvenience?
June 4, 2012 5:41:11 PM

musical marv said:
I notice the Republicans will never have new concepts and adhere to the same *** they have for years screwing the poor and middle class and cut taxes for the rich.
Yeah okay Marv...and the progressive narrative that Republicans are screwing the lower/middle class is as fresh as an old whore's crotch!
June 4, 2012 5:44:46 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
So, apply the law to work within the constitution, simple as that.
Whats the harm here? Inconvenience?


I would say that the shortcomings outweigh the benefits here. Hopefully in the future an increase in the technology used in the voting process will provide increased security without discrimination.
June 4, 2012 5:51:25 PM

Some states already require an ID to be presented at the polls. We are just seeking to standardize this practice throughout the rest of the states. It doesn't require changing the constitution, just congress passing a bill, and the president signing it into law.

You say the problem is non-existent. I beg to differ. Look at the hundreds of names on that site. And those are just the ones who got caught. The point of fraud is for no one to find out about it; so how can you really measure it and say, eh it's no big deal. How do you know? Fraud is fraud whether it for a local school board, who makes policy that affects your children BTW, or a presidential election.

Requiring a photo ID will cut down on instances of being able to vote in multiple precincts. Can a person get multiple IDs with different registered names? Sure, but at some expense and hassle. Will it happen? Probably. Hopefully not as much.

I rarely read people's comments on sites because the majority of them are trolls deliberately posting derogatory comments to make the website look bad.

@john
That is NOT what the 15th amendment says.

1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

And comparing this to Jim Crow laws? Seriously? My lord, you drama queen.

This law would affect everyone equally, black, white, red, yellow, or orange.

You need an ID for practically everything in this country. I can't figure how you get by without one unless you're homeless. Seriously, this is so NOT a big deal to ask for someone to identify themselves, and check that ID against a pre-printed registration list for that precinct. Really not a big deal. DMV issues a photo ID for like 5 bucks.

How is this discriminatory?
June 4, 2012 5:54:49 PM

jsc said:
unless you want to attend the Massachusetts Democratic Convention.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/06/01/vote...
As they say, Socialism is for the People not for the Socialist.

The Dems are attempting to directly tie voting with immigration law and the tired narrative that only the Dems and Progressives have the ability to protect minorities from inequality and promote social justice. It's all just the same old rhetoric, hypocritical smoke and mirror politics of the left.

June 4, 2012 5:57:34 PM

chunkymonster said:
As they say, Socialism is for the People not for the Socialist.

The Dems are attempting to directly tie voting with immigration law and the tired narrative that only the Dems and Progressives have the ability to protect minorities from inequality and promote social justice. It's all just the same old rhetoric, hypocritical smoke and mirror politics of the left.


Hey monster! Haven't seen you around these parts for awhile. How ya been?
June 4, 2012 5:59:11 PM

That quote was from the Voting Rights Act of 1965 not the 15th amendment OMG. Guess I should of said that as well since you didn't catch that, it was passed in response to the Jim Crow laws. A law requiring an ID to vote would fundamentally affect everyone equally, but put in practice it would affect minorities more. You can blame this on many reasons but its the truth.
June 4, 2012 6:05:43 PM


http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/case_studies_by_state/wi...

you cant find any state or any election where voter fraud makes up even a significant portion of the vote. Like 1% of 1% or .001 , its actually way way lower than that. Maybe if you could prove it is a problem then I would be more inclined to agree. It just seems that conservatives dont want people to vote. Also its totally about race for the republicans. look at the first graphic that JSC linked to in the OP.



And I know none of you like to read things unless it has blaze or fox in it, but check this out http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/pdf/TruthAboutVoterFraud...
June 4, 2012 6:29:40 PM

johnsonma said:
That quote was from the Voting Rights Act of 1965 not the 15th amendment OMG. Guess I should of said that as well since you didn't catch that, it was passed in response to the Jim Crow laws. A law requiring an ID to vote would fundamentally affect everyone equally, but put in practice it would affect minorities more. You can blame this on many reasons but its the truth.


Ah, thanks for the clarification.

How would it affect minorities more? Do minorities not have access to the DMV? Are you basing it on economic status/cost of the ID? If so, I would argue there are far more poor white people than poor minorities.
June 4, 2012 6:55:54 PM

More poor white people than poor black people. No doubt.

It isn't targeting a minority group. In fact, if they say you need an ID vote, everyone should be allowed to get a State ID paid for free and clear in addition to the bill. Then there wouldn't be any issues.
June 4, 2012 7:02:15 PM

What small gov conservatives you guys turned out to be lol.

Dont take my soda and make sure you keep your government issue photo ID available at all times.
June 4, 2012 7:02:19 PM

johnsonma said:
I would say that the shortcomings outweigh the benefits here. Hopefully in the future an increase in the technology used in the voting process will provide increased security without discrimination.

If we dont stop introducing the race card at every step, this and many things will take forever, including the end of racism.
Act on the law, prevent racism, establishing such a law then wouldnt have an impact.
These ideas of some arent so much a fact as they are a way to stir more racism, and its getting old, and Im not accusing anyone here, its just the same old party line, use the race card, even if it doesnt stick as it pertains to a new law, it sure gets certain peoples ears, and hopefully (for those that stir this pot) votes
June 4, 2012 7:06:01 PM

johnsonma said:
That quote was from the Voting Rights Act of 1965 not the 15th amendment OMG. Guess I should of said that as well since you didn't catch that, it was passed in response to the Jim Crow laws. A law requiring an ID to vote would fundamentally affect everyone equally, but put in practice it would affect minorities more. You can blame this on many reasons but its the truth.

You would have fat people eat right, and laws pertaining to soda dronks etc surely effects them much more.
So, race is relevant, fat isnt.
Is this how aligned it is, not that certain things matter, but only votes, as I dont see either party wooing the fat vote
June 4, 2012 7:09:24 PM

wanamingo said:
What small gov conservatives you guys turned out to be lol.

Dont take my soda and make sure you keep your government issue photo ID available at all times.


How is requiring someone to have identification to vote growing the size of government? Is this taking away any freedom or liberty from an individual?

Sorry, I just can't see it.
June 4, 2012 7:33:25 PM

Lets look at this a different way, who would benefit most from this? Republicans would, younger people and minorities are more likely not to have an id. They also tend to vote Dem, which is why republicans would benefit. This is why they are supporting it, while they may have some decent logic in wanting to stop voting fraud, it isn't near enough of an issue to force these people to get id's. If it was then I would be in favor of it. Its a constant battle to get votes and this just another move by a political party to gain an edge under a completely logical yet trivial action. Just to repeat myself, if voter fraud was a real issue then I could see why this should be addressed and would be in favor of the free id's that riser mentioned, but since it isn't I can only view this as a ploy.

June 4, 2012 7:37:13 PM

Oldmangamer_73 said:
How is requiring someone to have identification to vote growing the size of government? Is this taking away any freedom or liberty from an individual?

Sorry, I just can't see it.


Exactly, you can't vote unless you have an ID and you can't drink pop unless you are skinny.
June 4, 2012 7:49:55 PM

Used properly, this ID could solve many a problem.
While it too could be abused, it doesnt amount to hiding your money under your mattress as opposed to putting it in the bank.
Are dems survivalists for inclusiveness?
June 4, 2012 8:00:10 PM

"Raising the unsubstantiated specter of mass voter fraud suits a particular policy agenda. Voter fraud is most often invoked as a substantial problem in order to justify particular election policies. Chief among these is the proposal that individuals be required to show photo ID in order to vote - a policy that disenfranchises up to 10% of eligible citizens. But the only misconduct that photo ID addresses is the kind of voter fraud that happens as infrequently as death by lightning. Therefore, it suits those who prefer photo ID as a policy to lump as much misconduct in with “voter fraud” as possible, to create the impression that the problem is far more significant than it actually is. Moreover, to the extent photo ID is suggested as a solution to the perception that voter fraud occurs, it behooves those who prefer photo ID to reinforce the unsubstantiated perception that voter fraud exists.

Claims of voter fraud should be carefully tested before they become the basis for action. Researchers, reporters, public figures, and policymakers confronted with claims of potential fraud should carefully examine these claims before calling for action. Do the claims depend on matching information from one list to another? Is the matching process accurate? Does a match indicate an illegal vote, or is there a more plausible explanation? Is corroborating evidence available? If there actually appears to be a problem, can it be addressed by existing practices, or is a new solution necessary? If so, will the solution proposed - usually either a mass purge or photo identification - really solve the problem? Is the solution sufficiently burdensome that it becomes a greater problem than the problem itself? These basic questions are crucially important to evaluating claims of voter fraud, but are all too often unasked and unanswered."
June 4, 2012 8:01:46 PM

You guys are intelligent enough to research voter fraud and see that this is a ploy.
June 4, 2012 8:03:24 PM

Oldmangamer_73 said:
"fraud is not a problem"

Have you ever heard of ACORN?

http://www.rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html

The only reason for not supporting this I can see is if you want vote fraud to continue.


Says the site called rotten acorn lol. But even then looking through the evidence given almost none of those would be "Fixed" with a voter ID.
Oh yeah and one thing we never hear from ACORN detractors is that they are legally required to turn in all applications.
June 4, 2012 8:24:02 PM

Oldmangamer_73 said:
Hey monster! Haven't seen you around these parts for awhile. How ya been?
Been good, living life, and walking the line...thanks for asking...life and work pulled me away for a while but have been poking around the Forums again when I got a moment or two...glad to see you still posting and promoting the conservative and rational point of view...keep your powder dry and safety on!

On topic...it's the epitome of Democrat/Progressive hypocrisy that can actively promote no need for ID or no proof of actual residency in order to vote (*cough* the Scott Walker recall *cough*) while at the same time requiring their constituency to show proof of ID to attend a convention that is open to the public.



June 4, 2012 8:42:38 PM

If you're too lazy to get a government issued ID (I don't even know how people live without one as they are required for so many things..) then you're certainly too lazy to educate yourself about the candidates and will probably be casting a vote for whoever had the better smear campaign.. in which case.. I'd rather you not vote.
June 4, 2012 8:55:44 PM

johnsonma said:
Lets look at this a different way, who would benefit most from this? Republicans would, younger people and minorities are more likely not to have an id.
What?! Why the hate on young people and minorities? Are you saying that just because someone is a minority or under the age of emancipation that they are somehow unable to obtain a SS#, a Passport, a Civil Birth Certificate, Military ID, Pilot's License, Certified School transcripts, baptismal certificate, or a Non-Driver ID Card? All of which are legal forms of identification...


johnsonma said:
They also tend to vote Dem, which is why republicans would benefit. This is why they are supporting it, while they may have some decent logic in wanting to stop voting fraud, it isn't near enough of an issue to force these people to get id's.
The implication that Republicans don't want young people or minorities to vote because they tend to vote Democrat is as ignorant or as race baiting as any statement I've read. I only hope you do not actually believe such tripe!

johnsonma said:
If it was then I would be in favor of it. Its a constant battle to get votes and this just another move by a political party to gain an edge under a completely logical yet trivial action. Just to repeat myself, if voter fraud was a real issue then I could see why this should be addressed and would be in favor of the free id's that riser mentioned, but since it isn't I can only view this as a ploy.
Sorry there but voter fraud is real, albeit difficult to prove, but attempts to cast fraudulent votes and submit fraudulent Voter Registration Cards have been proven; and as they say, where there is smoke there is fire.

Also, the assertion that the Republican push to impose voter ID laws as a means do disenfranchise the young and minorities is, as mentioned above, ignorant and political race baiting. Enforcing voting laws is something that all citizens, republican or democrat, of the United States who believe in the right to vote should be in favor of.

Let's face facts, when all a person needs to register to vote is a Birth Certificate and a utility bill less than 90 days old, there is NOTHING stopping anyone of legal voting age from voting...enuff said!
June 5, 2012 3:02:22 AM

riser said:
Country has been doing pretty well under Republican concepts.. introduce a Democrat concept and things start sucking.

Nearly 4 years for the current administration to do something and we're still waiting.
Get it through your mind the Republicans do not care about the middle class or the poor only there rich friends!.How del, Iraq wars which is a needless war and thousands of lives lost and billions spent.The Republicans talk a good game but do nothing about it.They sicken me!
June 5, 2012 3:25:37 AM

Understand, those "republicans" are companies like GE, which is a prime supporter of Obama, and GE manages well during war.
As well as all the rich in Hollywood, which simply dont have a clue as to what this country needs, various billionaires and the like.
So, to make such a broad and sweeping statement doesnt cut it anymore, and is why Obama is running towards a class struggle scenario for his re-election.
The old myths that the republicans are rich is folly, as 28% identify themselves as repubs, whereas, only 1% are millionaires here, and many many of those follow the dems.
Now, creating a non foolproof law, which harms no one, and trust me, the repubs would love to have the young and others voting for them, shouldnt be that hard, and its simply the dems refusal to compromise, as,they fail in this regard to do so, thats holding this up, as they play their hatred card
June 5, 2012 11:33:11 AM

johnsonma said:
Lets look at this a different way, who would benefit most from this? Republicans would, younger people and minorities are more likely not to have an id. They also tend to vote Dem, which is why republicans would benefit. This is why they are supporting it, while they may have some decent logic in wanting to stop voting fraud, it isn't near enough of an issue to force these people to get id's. If it was then I would be in favor of it. Its a constant battle to get votes and this just another move by a political party to gain an edge under a completely logical yet trivial action. Just to repeat myself, if voter fraud was a real issue then I could see why this should be addressed and would be in favor of the free id's that riser mentioned, but since it isn't I can only view this as a ploy.


The citizens of the US would benefit the most. This isn't about right/left, this is about fixing the voting issue.. which you have clearly stated benefits the Democratic party because it is broken.
June 5, 2012 12:52:59 PM

You guys are so interested in fixing a problem that doesn't exist. Oldman is the only one to provide any kind of evidence voter fraud is going on. Just because it is a talking point doesn't mean its true.

Chunky I understand where you are coming from but the OP link explicitly states that the 10-11% of all Americans that don't have a photo ID are minorities and the elderly, you can look this up if you want. So you might say this isnt about race but those are the people most likely affected by the voter ID laws. If you don't need an ID to be a citizen you dont need an ID to vote its really as simple as that.

Im really into policy debate, I spent 4 years on the debate team, I mostly went solo therefore I was a master debater. But to win a debate you need to fulfill a few points.

- You haven't identified an issue, at least one not substantial enough to warrant forcing every single person over the age of 18 to get an ID. Wouldn't bar code tattoos be a bit easier?

- The proposed solution doesn't actually solve the problem. You can read up on some of the links provided. In most of the links that oldman gave it was fraud behind the curtains, the people counting the votes, or deciding who is eligible to vote, not your mom and pops lining up to vote. How would ID's have helped that?

- Its a huge government intrusion. Forcing your population to get ID's? Really? From libertarian types like yourselves... Im surprised, I also take it my taxes will be put towards this.... 400,000,000 million ID's are going to be a nightmare to handout.

- All of the documents you listed are very easily made, sometimes legally, like in one of the links oldman gave, it was more about identity theft then it was about voter fraud. How would an ID have fixed that, he had one?

So no problem, no solution, huge gov oversight, minority exclusion, and an easily gamed system. Who wins? Only the republicans because they have shrunk the eligible voting population by 10% a mostly democratic 10%.

And I agree getting an ID is a really good idea, and easy as hell, you should have no reason NOT to have one. You need one to fly, open a bank account, drive a car, really do anything in a society. But you shouldn't be forced to get one, and you especially shouldn't be punished for not having one.

June 5, 2012 1:53:57 PM

chunkymonster said:
Yeah okay Marv...and the progressive narrative that Republicans are screwing the lower/middle class is as fresh as an old whore's crotch!


George Bush was a Republican who gave broad tax cuts and effectively bankrupted the economy (trippled the nation's debt) and sent the US to war in Afganistan and Iraq over things that did not exist, consting the US taxpayer a few more zillion ... and lining the pockets of his mates in the arms business.

Furthermore he let Hurricane Katrina devastate two states and in order to save money, allowed those states to remain crippled and they still have not recovered ... since he gave them virtually no support and simply watched them rot.

He brought in the Patriot Act which allows your govt to basically throw democracy out the door when convenient.

He also lined his mates pockets with cash and generally told everyone he did a great job.

Top bloke ... I think most of us think he smells like an old whores crotch.
June 5, 2012 1:58:38 PM

wanamingo said:
http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/case_studies_by_state/wi...

you cant find any state or any election where voter fraud makes up even a significant portion of the vote. Like 1% of 1% or .001 , its actually way way lower than that. Maybe if you could prove it is a problem then I would be more inclined to agree. It just seems that conservatives dont want people to vote. Also its totally about race for the republicans. look at the first graphic that JSC linked to in the OP.

http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Big-Government/2012/06/01/voter-id-stats.jpg

And I know none of you like to read things unless it has blaze or fox in it, but check this out http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/pdf/TruthAboutVoterFraud...


I want you to ammend that poster so you have "Aussie Americans".

We are starting to feel left out.

There are 22 million of us here in the 51st State !!

:) 
!