Hardcore gamer is little upset.

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

The PCI-Express might be the future technology to replace AGP video card
slot in the future. Having said that, PCI-Express doesn't offer any
advantage or improvement at this moment in time over AGP video cards for
now. Maybe six months or a year from now, the new technology will fully take
advantage of the new PCI-Express video card and make the PCI-Express video
cards superior over AGP video cards, but for now, that's not the case.



If you're a hardcore gamer and only want the best of the best performance at
this moment in time from your video card, you will go for an AGP slot video
card. Having said all that, I am disappointed to see that the latest ASUS
motherboard "A8N-SLI Deluxe" named to be a hardcore gamer "motherboard"
doesn't have an AGP video card slot when indeed PCI-Express video card is
not yet as good as an AGP slot video card in performance. I don't get
it...!?!



The question is; don't you think it is way premature to replace AGP video
card slot in a latest ASUS motherboard with PCI-Express when indeed
PCI-Express is not even nearly as good as AGP video cards in performance?



I was gonna build a new computer using the newest and the best components as
available today, but having seen that the latest ASUS motherboard release
(A8N-SLI Deluxe) doesn't support an AGP video card, I am little upset.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

The thing is that most of today pci express video cards are agp cards with
just the bus changed, not really pci express designed.


"Ryan Atici" <Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:32us5rF3qd0blU1@individual.net...
> The PCI-Express might be the future technology to replace AGP video card
> slot in the future. Having said that, PCI-Express doesn't offer any
> advantage or improvement at this moment in time over AGP video cards for
> now. Maybe six months or a year from now, the new technology will fully
take
> advantage of the new PCI-Express video card and make the PCI-Express video
> cards superior over AGP video cards, but for now, that's not the case.
>
>
>
> If you're a hardcore gamer and only want the best of the best performance
at
> this moment in time from your video card, you will go for an AGP slot
video
> card. Having said all that, I am disappointed to see that the latest ASUS
> motherboard "A8N-SLI Deluxe" named to be a hardcore gamer "motherboard"
> doesn't have an AGP video card slot when indeed PCI-Express video card is
> not yet as good as an AGP slot video card in performance. I don't get
> it...!?!
>
>
>
> The question is; don't you think it is way premature to replace AGP video
> card slot in a latest ASUS motherboard with PCI-Express when indeed
> PCI-Express is not even nearly as good as AGP video cards in performance?
>
>
>
> I was gonna build a new computer using the newest and the best components
as
> available today, but having seen that the latest ASUS motherboard release
> (A8N-SLI Deluxe) doesn't support an AGP video card, I am little upset.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"Ryan Atici" <Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:32us5rF3qd0blU1@individual.net...
> The PCI-Express might be the future technology to replace AGP video card
> slot in the future. Having said that, PCI-Express doesn't offer any
> advantage or improvement at this moment in time over AGP video cards for
> now. Maybe six months or a year from now, the new technology will fully
> take advantage of the new PCI-Express video card and make the PCI-Express
> video cards superior over AGP video cards, but for now, that's not the
> case.
>
>
>
> If you're a hardcore gamer and only want the best of the best performance
> at this moment in time from your video card, you will go for an AGP slot
> video card. Having said all that, I am disappointed to see that the latest
> ASUS motherboard "A8N-SLI Deluxe" named to be a hardcore gamer
> "motherboard" doesn't have an AGP video card slot when indeed PCI-Express
> video card is not yet as good as an AGP slot video card in performance. I
> don't get it...!?!
>
>
>
> The question is; don't you think it is way premature to replace AGP video
> card slot in a latest ASUS motherboard with PCI-Express when indeed
> PCI-Express is not even nearly as good as AGP video cards in performance?
>
>
>
> I was gonna build a new computer using the newest and the best components
> as available today, but having seen that the latest ASUS motherboard
> release (A8N-SLI Deluxe) doesn't support an AGP video card, I am little
> upset.

They key here is the SLI. You probably weren't aware of it, but nVidia's
SLI implementation in the nForce4 chipset allows you to use two PCI Express
video cards together for much higher performance than a single card. While
a single AGP 6800 Ultra may be faster than a single PCI-E 6800 Ultra, a pair
of PCI-E 6800 Ultra cards is gonna spank any AGP config. I have seen
benchmarks indicating that in many cases a pair of $200 6600GT cards will be
faster than a single $500 6800 Ultra. That's why it's a hardocre gamers
motherboard.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:25:43 -0500, "Ryan Atici" <Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com>
wrote:

>The PCI-Express might be the future technology to replace AGP video card
>slot in the future. Having said that, PCI-Express doesn't offer any
>advantage or improvement at this moment in time over AGP video cards for
>now. Maybe six months or a year from now, the new technology will fully take
>advantage of the new PCI-Express video card and make the PCI-Express video
>cards superior over AGP video cards, but for now, that's not the case.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

>If you're a hardcore gamer and only want the best of the best performance at
>this moment in time from your video card, you will go for an AGP slot video
>card. Having said all that, I am disappointed to see that the latest ASUS
>motherboard "A8N-SLI Deluxe" named to be a hardcore gamer "motherboard"
>doesn't have an AGP video card slot when indeed PCI-Express video card is
>not yet as good as an AGP slot video card in performance. I don't get
>it...!?!

Wake up and smell the ozone.

For those of us who *don't* wish to keep using near-obsolete display hardware,
motherboard manufacturers have to make the first move.

>The question is; don't you think it is way premature to replace AGP video
>card slot in a latest ASUS motherboard with PCI-Express when indeed
>PCI-Express is not even nearly as good as AGP video cards in performance?

Nope. Time marches on, and you are hanging on too tight to what is now "Just
Another Legacy Bus".

>I was gonna build a new computer using the newest and the best components as
>available today, but having seen that the latest ASUS motherboard release
>(A8N-SLI Deluxe) doesn't support an AGP video card, I am little upset.

You are more than a little stupid...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Ryan Atici wrote:
> The PCI-Express might be the future technology to replace AGP video card
> slot in the future. Having said that, PCI-Express doesn't offer any
> advantage or improvement at this moment in time over AGP video cards for
> now. Maybe six months or a year from now, the new technology will fully
> take advantage of the new PCI-Express video card and make the
> PCI-Express video cards superior over AGP video cards, but for now,
> that's not the case.
>
>
>
> If you're a hardcore gamer and only want the best of the best
> performance at this moment in time from your video card, you will go for
> an AGP slot video card. Having said all that, I am disappointed to see
> that the latest ASUS motherboard "A8N-SLI Deluxe" named to be a hardcore
> gamer "motherboard" doesn't have an AGP video card slot when indeed
> PCI-Express video card is not yet as good as an AGP slot video card in
> performance. I don't get it...!?!
>
>
>
> The question is; don't you think it is way premature to replace AGP
> video card slot in a latest ASUS motherboard with PCI-Express when
> indeed PCI-Express is not even nearly as good as AGP video cards in
> performance?
>
>
>
> I was gonna build a new computer using the newest and the best
> components as available today, but having seen that the latest ASUS
> motherboard release (A8N-SLI Deluxe) doesn't support an AGP video card,
> I am little upset.
>
First of all, PCI Express is at least as fast, or faster, than AGP, in
all cases except where the card is using a bridge chip to translate AGP
into PCI Express, which has some performance hit. Secondly, the chipsets
currently available (and expected to be available) that support PCI
Express have no AGP support, so there is no way to have an AGP slot
without running it through the PCI bus and resulting in horrible
performance.

If you are building a new system, why on earth would you want to use AGP
in it?

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hancockr@nospamshaw.ca
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

I am building a new system, and I just bought an AGP board. I don't play any
games, so this is not an issue for me. I also don't want to buy a new video
card, so an AGP system is fine for me....at least for now......



> If you are building a new system, why on earth would you want to use AGP
> in it?
>
> --
> Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
> To email, remove "nospam" from hancockr@nospamshaw.ca
> Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:40:05 -0500, "Ryan Atici" <Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com>
wrote:

> > You are more than a little stupid...
>
>
>
>Let me repeat what I said because you're not smart enough to see the scheme.
>
>When you use high-end AGP video card, you don't need to resort to SLI
>scheme, which is designed for PCI-Express video cards.

Good grief, you are clueless.

That you believe desktop gaming peecee video is bus-bandwidth limited reveals
your utter lack of education on the subject of desktop video.

Herewith starts the lesson.

First, get it through that large unsightly lump between your shoulders right
above where your neck should have been: SLI really had - and has - nothing to
do with the host bus transfer capabilities, nor does it have anything really
to do with multiple slots, other than the power consumption issues.

SLI was always about doubling graphics *engine* horsepower, not about bus
bandwidth. That the classic SLI used two PCI slots was a power solution having
everything to do with the 25W/slot PCI limit. Period.

A PCI Express 1.1 x16 slot offers twice the bandwidth of the maximum (and so
far still theoretical) incarnation of AGP (hint: AGP 3.0 is DOA) - which,
fwiw, provided WAY MORE bandwidth than you ever used to begin with.

Because you have huge chunks of fast, low-latency memory on your video card
for the graphics engine to play with. That memory looks a LOT faster and a LOT
quicker to the graphics engine than host memory does. With 128MB, 256MB or
even more on-board, right where the graphics engine can use it there's not
much need to hammer on host memory.

Finally, consider that at least one company has already announced a
dual-engine graphics adapter - an SLI-like beast on a single card. A PCI
Express card. They'll likely solve the power problem by using an internal
power cable connector. And users will be fragging your weak AGP ass all over
the gaming world. Enjoy ;-)

But you really ought to stop embarrassing yourself further...

/daytripper

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

As I said before, the pci express cards made today still do not take full
advantage of...


"daytripper" <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fp0ns0t56ks1q2so6vkald6e8ivoch0n16@4ax.com...
> Finally, consider that at least one company has already announced a
> dual-engine graphics adapter - an SLI-like beast on a single card. A PCI
> Express card. They'll likely solve the power problem by using an internal
> power cable connector. And users will be fragging your weak AGP ass all
over
> the gaming world. Enjoy ;-)
>
> /daytripper

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 08:20:47 -0400, "pedro itriago"
<73050.520nospam@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
>"daytripper" <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:fp0ns0t56ks1q2so6vkald6e8ivoch0n16@4ax.com...
>> Finally, consider that at least one company has already announced a
>> dual-engine graphics adapter - an SLI-like beast on a single card. A PCI
>> Express card. They'll likely solve the power problem by using an internal
>> power cable connector. And users will be fragging your weak AGP ass all
>over
>> the gaming world. Enjoy ;-)
>>
>> /daytripper
>
>>As I said before, the pci express cards made today still do not take full
>>advantage of...

And you still don't understand why your comment is a non-sequitur...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 04:04:11 -0500, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>In article <32us5rF3qd0blU1@individual.net>, "Ryan Atici"
><Ryan_Atici@hotpop.com> wrote:
>
>> The PCI-Express might be the future technology to replace AGP video card
>> slot in the future. Having said that, PCI-Express doesn't offer any
>> advantage or improvement at this moment in time over AGP video cards for
>> now. Maybe six months or a year from now, the new technology will fully take
>> advantage of the new PCI-Express video card and make the PCI-Express video
>> cards superior over AGP video cards, but for now, that's not the case.
>>
>> [..]
>
>Tomshardware has some video charts for the latest PCI Express cards.
>You can compare them to the AGP charts:
>
>http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/index.html (PCI-E)
>http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041004/index.html (AGP)
>
>Compare "Far Cry" benchmarks:
>http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/vga_charts-07.html
>http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041004/vga_charts-09.html
>
>The AGP X800 XT PE does 91.6 FPS (R420 520/1120 256-bit 16x1)
>The PCI-E X800 XT PE does 111.0 FPS (R423 256MB 520/1120 256-bit 16)
>
>The AGP 6800U does 86.0 FPS (NV40 400/1100 256-bit 16x1)
>The PCI-E 6800U does 102.9 FPS (NV45 256MB 400/1100 256-bit 16)
>2x6800U SLI (PCI-E) does 135.2 FPS
>
>The ATI cards don't use a separate PCI-E bridge chip, the
>way that the Nvidia cards do. But the benchmark above suggests
>the same speedup when comparing AGP to PCI-E version of the same
>card. (Roughly 21% or so, give or take.)
>[..]

Next time you compare benchmarks, try to be at least a bit
fair. Those tests you are comparing (20041222 and 20041004) are using
different driver versions, different kind of memory and *one of them
is using an Intel Pentium 4 3.2 GHz and the other one an AMD Athlon64
4000+ *!!

If the test configurations had been the same, I would expect
both results (AGP vs PCIe) to be roughly equal.

Kind regards.
--
Jose M. Arnesto
j[insert my surname here]@computer.org