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Does Dell make its own motherboards?

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January 3, 2005 9:53:47 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

Do all Dell PCs (for the UK market) come with Dell's own
motherboards?

I am thinking of getting a Dell but I don't want to find that it uses
a Dell proprietary motherboard that may have little technical data
available.

ISTR hearing that Dell used a non-standad wiring on the 20 or 24 pin
mobo power connector. And I imagine there may be several other Dell
quirks.

More about : dell make motherboards

Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 3, 2005 10:01:34 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

Lem wrote:
> Do all Dell PCs (for the UK market) come with Dell's own
> motherboards?
>
> I am thinking of getting a Dell but I don't want to find that it uses
> a Dell proprietary motherboard that may have little technical data
> available.
>
> ISTR hearing that Dell used a non-standad wiring on the 20 or 24 pin
> mobo power connector. And I imagine there may be several other Dell
> quirks.
>

They don't make their own boards, but they do have boards made for them
(usually by Intel) to their specs. I don't think they do the nonstandard
power connector anymore, but they do still do the nonstandard front
panel controls connector. Also, some boards have had a somewhat
nonstandard shape which may prevent replacing with a standard ATX board.

Essentially, don't count on being able to change out the motherboard in
the original case..

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hancockr@nospamshaw.ca
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 3, 2005 10:14:40 PM

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Lem wrote:
>
> Do all Dell PCs (for the UK market) come with Dell's own
> motherboards?
>
> I am thinking of getting a Dell but I don't want to find that it uses
> a Dell proprietary motherboard that may have little technical data
> available.
>
> ISTR hearing that Dell used a non-standad wiring on the 20 or 24 pin
> mobo power connector. And I imagine there may be several other Dell
> quirks.

most every stupid branded maker has proprietry hardware.
Get a clone.
Related resources
January 3, 2005 10:14:41 PM

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On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 19:14:40 GMT, Gordon Scott <gordsmail@NOSPAMshaw.ca>
wrote:

>Lem wrote:
>>
>> Do all Dell PCs (for the UK market) come with Dell's own
>> motherboards?
>>
>> I am thinking of getting a Dell but I don't want to find that it uses
>> a Dell proprietary motherboard that may have little technical data
>> available.
>>
>> ISTR hearing that Dell used a non-standad wiring on the 20 or 24 pin
>> mobo power connector. And I imagine there may be several other Dell
>> quirks.
>
>most every stupid branded maker has proprietry hardware.
>Get a clone.

Plus the BIOS usually has 75% of the features/options pre-set/disabled
that you will find on the same/similar mobo you can buy off the shelf.
Ed
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 3, 2005 10:25:24 PM

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Dell does not make its own motherboards.
But they are made to its specifications.

"Lem" <z@mail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
95D3C039A8FB6D5E712@130.133.1.4...
> Do all Dell PCs (for the UK market) come with Dell's own
> motherboards?
>
> I am thinking of getting a Dell but I don't want to find that it uses
> a Dell proprietary motherboard that may have little technical data
> available.
>
> ISTR hearing that Dell used a non-standad wiring on the 20 or 24 pin
> mobo power connector. And I imagine there may be several other Dell
> quirks.
>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 3, 2005 10:31:06 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

"Gordon Scott" <gordsmail@NOSPAMshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:41D999B0.D0BC66A6@shaw.ca...
> Lem wrote:
>>
>> Do all Dell PCs (for the UK market) come with Dell's own
>> motherboards?
>>
>> I am thinking of getting a Dell but I don't want to find that it uses
>> a Dell proprietary motherboard that may have little technical data
>> available.
>>
>> ISTR hearing that Dell used a non-standad wiring on the 20 or 24 pin
>> mobo power connector. And I imagine there may be several other Dell
>> quirks.
>
> most every stupid branded maker has proprietry hardware.
> Get a clone.

A company called Hon Hai makes them in China
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 3, 2005 11:36:58 PM

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"Lem" <z@mail.com> wrote in message news:95D3C039A8FB6D5E712@130.133.1.4...
> Do all Dell PCs (for the UK market) come with Dell's own
> motherboards?
>
> I am thinking of getting a Dell but I don't want to find that it uses
> a Dell proprietary motherboard that may have little technical data
> available.
>
> ISTR hearing that Dell used a non-standad wiring on the 20 or 24 pin
> mobo power connector. And I imagine there may be several other Dell
> quirks.
>

If your ever considering "looking under the bonnet", or peeking at the
BIOS - don't do Dell!

Pete
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 3, 2005 11:55:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

FG wrote:
>
> Dell does not make its own motherboards.
> But they are made to its specifications.


But there's a range of possibilities in that statement.

Any OEM of any significance has motherboards (and other hardware)
"made to its own specifications" but in many cases that simply means
they take the vendor's (say Intel's) spec. and incorporate it as their
own. They then order parts to this (their own) spec.

The advantage for the OEM is that it freezes the vendor's spec for the
board so that they can't make subsequent changes without the knowledge
and agreement (by a corresponding spec change) of the oem. This is a
very common practice amongst oems in all industries.

In other cases, large oem's do the whole design job in house, and
have someone make it for them (or make it themselves).
January 4, 2005 2:33:23 AM

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Anybody that buys a brand name computer is an idiot.
Build it yourself using good brand name hardware and build it the way you
want it. You will be very pleased with the results.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 4, 2005 3:14:26 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

Dell uses PROPRIETARY motherboards. They are NOT standard.

--
DaveW



"Lem" <z@mail.com> wrote in message news:95D3C039A8FB6D5E712@130.133.1.4...
> Do all Dell PCs (for the UK market) come with Dell's own
> motherboards?
>
> I am thinking of getting a Dell but I don't want to find that it uses
> a Dell proprietary motherboard that may have little technical data
> available.
>
> ISTR hearing that Dell used a non-standad wiring on the 20 or 24 pin
> mobo power connector. And I imagine there may be several other Dell
> quirks.
>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 4, 2005 5:05:17 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

Robert Hancock wrote:
> Lem wrote:
>
>> Do all Dell PCs (for the UK market) come with Dell's own motherboards?
>>
>> I am thinking of getting a Dell but I don't want to find that it uses
>> a Dell proprietary motherboard that may have little technical data
>> available.
>>
>> ISTR hearing that Dell used a non-standad wiring on the 20 or 24 pin
>> mobo power connector. And I imagine there may be several other Dell
>> quirks.
>
>
> They don't make their own boards, but they do have boards made for them
> (usually by Intel)

Intel hasn't made a motherboard for about 6 years now !

There was a big hubbub in the IT/tech news about it at
the time - how could everyone have forgotten already ?

> to their specs. I don't think they do the nonstandard
> power connector anymore, but they do still do the nonstandard front
> panel controls connector. Also, some boards have had a somewhat
> nonstandard shape which may prevent replacing with a standard ATX board.
>
> Essentially, don't count on being able to change out the motherboard in
> the original case..
>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 4, 2005 5:35:29 AM

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On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 02:05:17 GMT, Rob Stow <rob.stow.nospam@shaw.ca> wrote:

>Robert Hancock wrote:
>> Lem wrote:
>>
>>> Do all Dell PCs (for the UK market) come with Dell's own motherboards?
>>>
>>> I am thinking of getting a Dell but I don't want to find that it uses
>>> a Dell proprietary motherboard that may have little technical data
>>> available.
>>>
>>> ISTR hearing that Dell used a non-standad wiring on the 20 or 24 pin
>>> mobo power connector. And I imagine there may be several other Dell
>>> quirks.
>>
>>
>> They don't make their own boards, but they do have boards made for them
>> (usually by Intel)
>
>Intel hasn't made a motherboard for about 6 years now !

Really? So these two dual-Prestonia/Lindenhurst server boards that we got from
Intel (one is a "Roadrunner" and the other is a "Coyote") don't actually
exist? Wow - that's a scary reality! ;-)

>There was a big hubbub in the IT/tech news about it at
>the time - how could everyone have forgotten already ?

Possibly because it wasn't true?

/daytripper
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 4, 2005 7:22:22 AM

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daytripper wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 02:05:17 GMT, Rob Stow <rob.stow.nospam@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>Robert Hancock wrote:
>>
>>>Lem wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Do all Dell PCs (for the UK market) come with Dell's own motherboards?
>>>>
>>>>I am thinking of getting a Dell but I don't want to find that it uses
>>>>a Dell proprietary motherboard that may have little technical data
>>>>available.
>>>>
>>>>ISTR hearing that Dell used a non-standad wiring on the 20 or 24 pin
>>>>mobo power connector. And I imagine there may be several other Dell
>>>>quirks.
>>>
>>>
>>>They don't make their own boards, but they do have boards made for them
>>>(usually by Intel)
>>
>>Intel hasn't made a motherboard for about 6 years now !
>
>
> Really? So these two dual-Prestonia/Lindenhurst server boards that we got from
> Intel (one is a "Roadrunner" and the other is a "Coyote") don't actually
> exist? Wow - that's a scary reality! ;-)

You weren't paying attention. I didn't say Intel
wasn't selling motherboards - I said they weren't
/making/ them.

>
>
>>There was a big hubbub in the IT/tech news about it at
>>the time - how could everyone have forgotten already ?
>
>
> Possibly because it wasn't true?
>
> /daytripper
January 4, 2005 1:14:39 PM

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"Venom" <Viper@Mailhouse.com> wrote in message
news:7DkCd.102371$K7.65026@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Anybody that buys a brand name computer is an idiot.

Let's see, now. I've built about 20 PCs in my time. Yet, recently, I have
chosen to buy in some Dell PCs for the office. One reason might be that I
am, as you say, an idiot. The other reason might be that the Dells do the
job I need for the office, and they cost 20% less to buy in ready-built than
the price at which I can buy the parts.

Your generalisation is a bit idiotic.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 4, 2005 4:02:36 PM

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In article <41da6c8e@news1.homechoice.co.uk>, NOTsomeone@microsoft.com,
a.k.a GB says...
>
> "Venom" <Viper@Mailhouse.com> wrote in message
> news:7DkCd.102371$K7.65026@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > Anybody that buys a brand name computer is an idiot.
>
> Let's see, now. I've built about 20 PCs in my time. Yet, recently, I have
> chosen to buy in some Dell PCs for the office. One reason might be that I
> am, as you say, an idiot. The other reason might be that the Dells do the
> job I need for the office, and they cost 20% less to buy in ready-built than
> the price at which I can buy the parts.


20% for not being able to support them *properly* when the machine goes
down is worth it is it?

"But I have 3 year on-site warranty" you say

Good luck then.

Personally, i'd spend the extra 20% (which is how much on a home brew
machine, £100?) and be able to replace stock parts.

Buying Dell is false economy, IMO
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 4, 2005 4:38:47 PM

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Tx2 wrote:
> In article <41da6c8e@news1.homechoice.co.uk>,
> NOTsomeone@microsoft.com, a.k.a GB says...
>>
>> "Venom" <Viper@Mailhouse.com> wrote in message
>> news:7DkCd.102371$K7.65026@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>> Anybody that buys a brand name computer is an idiot.
>>
>> Let's see, now. I've built about 20 PCs in my time. Yet, recently, I
>> have chosen to buy in some Dell PCs for the office. One reason might
>> be that I am, as you say, an idiot. The other reason might be that
>> the Dells do the job I need for the office, and they cost 20% less
>> to buy in ready-built than the price at which I can buy the parts.
>
>
> 20% for not being able to support them *properly* when the machine
> goes down is worth it is it?
>
> "But I have 3 year on-site warranty" you say
>
> Good luck then.
>
> Personally, i'd spend the extra 20% (which is how much on a home brew
> machine, £100?) and be able to replace stock parts.
>
> Buying Dell is false economy, IMO

Remember you need to factor in the time taken to spec, order, build, test,
run-in the system, install the operating system etc. etc. your £100 has just
jumped to £500 at least (remember to also factor in the additional accounts
required to source parts from more than one supplier).


Keep well,

Will
--
Will Reeve
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 4, 2005 5:43:52 PM

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On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 04:22:22 GMT, Rob Stow <rob.stow.nospam@shaw.ca> wrote:

>daytripper wrote:
>> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 02:05:17 GMT, Rob Stow <rob.stow.nospam@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>Intel hasn't made a motherboard for about 6 years now !
>>
>>
>> Really? So these two dual-Prestonia/Lindenhurst server boards that we got from
>> Intel (one is a "Roadrunner" and the other is a "Coyote") don't actually
>> exist? Wow - that's a scary reality! ;-)
>
>You weren't paying attention. I didn't say Intel
>wasn't selling motherboards - I said they weren't
>/making/ them.

Define "make". Do you mean simply that Intel doesn't have any board shops of
their own and thus contracts out fab and assembly?

If that's it, I must have missed what significance was being attached...

/daytripper
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 4, 2005 7:01:48 PM

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daytripper wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 04:22:22 GMT, Rob Stow <rob.stow.nospam@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>daytripper wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 02:05:17 GMT, Rob Stow <rob.stow.nospam@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Intel hasn't made a motherboard for about 6 years now !
>>>
>>>
>>>Really? So these two dual-Prestonia/Lindenhurst server boards that we got from
>>>Intel (one is a "Roadrunner" and the other is a "Coyote") don't actually
>>>exist? Wow - that's a scary reality! ;-)
>>
>>You weren't paying attention. I didn't say Intel
>>wasn't selling motherboards - I said they weren't
>>/making/ them.
>
>
> Define "make". Do you mean simply that Intel doesn't have any board shops of
> their own and thus contracts out fab and assembly?
>
That is what I meant.

However, I should have qualified it a bit.
Intel no longer makes boards for x86 but I
have no idea if they make any for Itanic.

> If that's it, I must have missed what significance was being attached...
>

The significance goes back to someone else's statement
that Intel makes motherboards for Dell. Intel contracts
out - just like Dell.

As a matter of fact, the reasons Intel cited for getting
out of the x86 motherboard market were low profit margins
combined with their failure to land any of the big OEMs as
a customer.
January 4, 2005 7:20:54 PM

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On 04 Jan 2005, GB wrote:

> Let's see, now. I've built about 20 PCs in my time. Yet,
> recently, I have chosen to buy in some Dell PCs for the office.
> One reason might be that I am, as you say, an idiot. The other
> reason might be that the Dells do the job I need for the office,
> and they cost 20% less to buy in ready-built than the price at
> which I can buy the parts.


I've also noticed that Dell have aggressive pricing and that no
matter how much I shop around for cheap components and software, I am
unlikely to match a Dell for price compared to a PC I build myself.

I have the impression (correct me if I am wrong) that the component
qulaity and the build quality of a Dell is pretty decent. Sure it is
not going to be as good as a very carefully chosen PC put together by
a home contructor. But as a mass-market PC I have the impression
that Dell is rather good.

ISTR that reliability too is better than average.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 4, 2005 8:03:14 PM

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In article <41da9c68$0$14585$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>,
will@reeve.org.uk, a.k.a Will Reeve says...


> Remember you need to factor in the time taken to spec, order, build, test,
> run-in the system, install the operating system etc. etc. your £100 has just
> jumped to £500 at least (remember to also factor in the additional accounts
> required to source parts from more than one supplier).

I disagree.

I can build and have a system up and running in about half a day.

Don't tell me Dell's quality control is any better than mine either,
'cos I know from experience in setting up half a dozen or more systems
that it isn't.

Sourcing the parts for a self-build? - an hour, maybe two - done over
coffee of course.

So, assume a day spent sourcing, building and installing.

Sourcing and installing still apply with the Dell (let alone how long
you take checking and double checking the specs before you hit "BUY")

Of course, you haven't factored in the time you'd spend on the phone to
Dell trying to convince them an engineer is needed when it goes wrong,
with them arguing the toss, etc etc etc.

But, YMMV, I'll personally never buy a Dell because today's convenience
becomes tomorrow's headache.

> Keep well

Why thank you. You too...
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 4, 2005 8:04:05 PM

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In article <95D4A64E6FB1FD5E712@130.133.1.4>, z@mail.com, a.k.a Lem
says...


> I've also noticed that Dell have aggressive pricing and that no
> matter how much I shop around for cheap components and software, I am
> unlikely to match a Dell for price compared to a PC I build myself.

Depends on what components you select. There's nothing 'fancy' in any
Dell's I've ever seen.

> I have the impression (correct me if I am wrong) that the component
> qulaity and the build quality of a Dell is pretty decent. Sure it is
> not going to be as good as a very carefully chosen PC put together by
> a home contructor. But as a mass-market PC I have the impression
> that Dell is rather good.

Yes, as a mass market producer they probably are. Depends if you want to
be a mass market consumer, reliant on mass market support of course.

But so like everything in life, buying cheap can often mean get nasty.

YMMV

I'm not saying don't buy Dell - I simply believe it to be a false
economy to do so based on what i've read here thus far. Personally, I
prefer my equipment to be of better quality, and something I can
directly support.

> ISTR that reliability too is better than average

Than average what?
January 5, 2005 3:47:10 AM

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On 04 Jan 2005, Tx2 wrote:

>
>> ISTR that reliability too is better than average
>
> Than average what?


Dell's reliability is often said to better than the average. See:

17th Annual Reader Satisfaction Survey
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1623585,00.asp
click on links like 'Survey Results'
January 5, 2005 4:21:23 AM

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"Tx2" <tx2newscollection@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c44a443f4258fe4989ed3@news.individual.net...
In article <41da6c8e@news1.homechoice.co.uk>, NOTsomeone@microsoft.com,
a.k.a GB says...
>
> "Venom" <Viper@Mailhouse.com> wrote in message
> news:7DkCd.102371$K7.65026@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > Anybody that buys a brand name computer is an idiot.
>
> Let's see, now. I've built about 20 PCs in my time. Yet, recently, I have
> chosen to buy in some Dell PCs for the office. One reason might be that I
> am, as you say, an idiot. The other reason might be that the Dells do the
> job I need for the office, and they cost 20% less to buy in ready-built
> than
> the price at which I can buy the parts.


> 20% for not being able to support them *properly* when the machine goes
> down is worth it is it?

Maybe not. We'll see. My experience is that PCs don't break very often.
Actually, I'll rephrase that. The PCs at the office never break. The PCs at
home (which the kids use) seem to break rather a lot.

When there is a problem, it tends to be one of the moving bits such as the
hard disks, which are completely standard on these Dell machines.

In fact, these were very cheap system boxes - under 200 Pounds including
VAT. The component cost would be about 250 Pounds. However, there's also my
time to build up and test the systems if I bought the bits - worth say
another 50 Pounds per computer.


> "But I have 3 year on-site warranty" you say

For what Dell charge? You must be joking! :-)

What I do have is several systems that are the same. There's one system box
that is only occasionally used and could be cannibalised for parts if
necessary.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 4:56:40 AM

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"Lem" <z@mail.com> wrote in message news:95D57FF8EA70D5E712@130.133.1.4...
> On 04 Jan 2005, Tx2 wrote:
>
>>
>>> ISTR that reliability too is better than average
>>
>> Than average what?
>
>
> Dell's reliability is often said to better than the average. See:
>
> 17th Annual Reader Satisfaction Survey
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1623585,00.asp
> click on links like 'Survey Results'

....."often said to better than the average" - cute phrase, ...says - not a
lot.

From the article:

"As you peruse the results, you'll see that no company is beyond reproach.
Each is guilty of selling machines that need repair and providing poor
technical support at times. The leading vendors-Apple in the desktop and
notebook categories, Dell in desktops and servers, and IBM in notebooks-are
those that keep criticism to a minimum."

......"keep criticism to a minimum" - how does that tranlate into MTBF?

also:

"Unfortunately, phone support is also among the most expensive support
methods. In order to cut costs, many vendors have moved call centers
overseas. Big vendors Dell, HP, Gateway, and Toshiba all use at least some
foreign call centers, and many readers complain of difficulty communicating
with technicians."

I especially liked:

"Unlike many of its competitors, IBM refuses to use overseas technicians,
and its tech-support scores are impressive. Readers give IBM a 7.0 overall
score for desktop tech support and a 7.6 for notebooks. They rate IBM
support techs' ability to comprehend user problems and to speak in a clear,
understandable manner at least a point higher than they do Dell, HP, Sony,
and Toshiba techs."

..... does that translate into "no one ever got fired for buying an IBM"
:o )))))))))

Pete


Out of interest - how much does Dell charge for a fifteen quid (thirty buck)
PSU?
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 5:39:45 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

In article <7DkCd.102371$K7.65026@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
Viper@Mailhouse.com says...
> Anybody that buys a brand name computer is an idiot.
> Build it yourself using good brand name hardware and build it the way you
> want it. You will be very pleased with the results.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

I've actually built systems since the 70's and designed more than 1
motherboard and actually manage a IT firm that spec's hardware for many
companies.

For my own office I purchase parts and build to spec based on our needs,
but, most people can't do this for the same cost factor due to several
things:

COST of OS - unless you're a pirate Dell can get it cheaper in most
cases

COST of Applications - again, unless you're a pirate Dell can get it
cheaper than most places

Warranty - unless you have the skills yourself or you know someone or
you have an IT Staff, Dell can support you cheaper and quicker than you
can learn/do it on your own. Not everyone buys the cheap support plan
with off-shore support, many purchase gold or higher and get 4 hour
service times.

When I built several Dual Xeon servers for my office I managed to get
4GB of RAM, 1.3TB of RAID 5 space, and 250GB of RAID-1 space for about
$4300. The OS is free since we're a MS partner and they provide X
licenses for partners. The support is done in-house as well as all the
other care. If I had to add the OS it would run about $1000 including a
few licenses.

For a typical client, one without staff or support people of their own,
the same Dell will cost about $9,800 including the OS and 4 hour 24/7
on-site support as needed.

So, for $4,000 they get a dedicated response team with 4 hour 24/7 on
site response, instead of having to spend $120k/year for a dedicated
staff member to do the same.

When it comes to home computers, sure, Dell is not going to sell you a
bleeding edge system as cheap as you can buy the parts yourself, but
they will get the OS and Apps cheaper as well as many of the extras. The
big place they get the self-builder is the apps and support/warranty.

--
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spamfree999@rrohio.com
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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 12:19:46 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

In article <MPG.1c451f98d8cb620e989dee@news-server.columbus.rr.com>,
void@nowhere.lan, a.k.a Leythos says...

[...]

> When it comes to home computers, sure, Dell is not going to sell you a
> bleeding edge system as cheap as you can buy the parts yourself, but
> they will get the OS and Apps cheaper as well as many of the extras. The
> big place they get the self-builder is the apps and support/warranty.


Are you 'talking' about the situation from outside the UK?

I ask because your suggestion/experience of Dell has no reflection on
what it's like in the UK (Britain)
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 12:21:24 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:03:14 -0000, Tx2 <tx2newscollection@hotmail.com>
wrote:

<snip>

>Sourcing and installing still apply with the Dell (let alone how long
>you take checking and double checking the specs before you hit "BUY")
>
>Of course, you haven't factored in the time you'd spend on the phone to
>Dell trying to convince them an engineer is needed when it goes wrong,
>with them arguing the toss, etc etc etc.

Of course it depends too on the service level you have purchased and
the system. i.e. I would tend to go for Dell and the like for servers
where you can just phone up and say "I want an engineer over here in 4
hrs", swap the unit out if necessary and install a system backup
rather than spending a day with the server down.

For a small business where the IT person is the secretary who knows
how to swap tapes over and thats about it, this sort of service level
is a reasonable compromise over having a company on retainer for call
out support.

As you say though getting an engineer out can sometimes be
problematic. I've been finding their call center problematic at times.
--
Gamma gamma gamma chameleon
You come and glow, you come and glow.
Kick out the cats before you reply
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 12:57:10 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

> Essentially, don't count on being able to change out the motherboard in
> the original case..

We had a similar discussions just before Christmas. Dell UK had a stunningly
good offer available which for £420 got you a fast Celeron, 256MB, 80GB HDD,
17" TFT, printer & DVD-writer. When I looked at reviews of this obviously
low-budget system, I can to the same conclusion that it's not very
upgradable. Only thing I wished it had was an AGP graphics port which meant
you were stuck with the on-board graphics card.

But when I did the math, it worked out that even if you threw away the
entire base unit less the HDD, the rest of the bits bought separately came
very closed to the £420 price, esp. considering the 17" TFT.

So what I said was "if you need to upgrade, don't worry about throwing the
base unit away - you almost got it for free anyway".

Just how they are making money, I just don't know :-)

Rob.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:00:17 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

> If your ever considering "looking under the bonnet", or peeking at the
> BIOS - don't do Dell!

But if you want a well built system with good specification at a low price,
then do seriously consider Dell. For the majority of the market out there
who just want it to work, Dell fits the mark.

I used to build PCs for friends and family. Don't bother anymore if they're
looking for a new system - can't beat Dell on price esp. when you add in the
operating system (which lots of home builders seem to forget :-) and the
hassle factor is so much less.

Rob.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:03:22 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

> Anybody that buys a brand name computer is an idiot.
> Build it yourself using good brand name hardware and build it the way you
> want it. You will be very pleased with the results.

Are you serious?? :-) I would estimate a very high percentage of PCs are
bought by non-technical users who just want to plug it in and go. Building
your PC from parts, whilst not exactly difficult, is occasionally fraught
with difficulties. Like the questions & problems that this group is filled
with.

And on price, I'm not sure anymore that a custom build PC to the same
specification is any cheaper when bought in components. This doesn't include
my time as well.

Rob.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:04:54 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

> chosen to buy in some Dell PCs for the office. One reason might be that I
> am, as you say, an idiot. The other reason might be that the Dells do the
> job I need for the office, and they cost 20% less to buy in ready-built
> than the price at which I can buy the parts.

20%? Yes, that probably sounds about right. We've only built one custom PC
at work (a dual Athlon XP system) and we've had no end of problems with it -
it's always got the top off :-) The Dell PCs & servers just sit there and
work 24/7.

Rob.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:08:02 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

>20% for not being able to support them *properly* when the machine goes
>down is worth it is it?

Dell kit is incredibly reliable mainly because you don't mess around with
it. The only Dell hardware we've had fail is a CD-ROM and video output from
one laptop. Compared to the Compaq iPAQ that litereraly blew up, the custom
built Gigabyte system that decided to stop working with WD hard disk and
won't run through the KVM, the 3 Toshiba laptops that have developed several
faults etc...

If one of the Dell base units failed, we wouldn't bother trying to fix it.
We'd simply buy a new base unit for ~£200. £200 doesn't buy you a lot of
"fixing" time and you'll have a nice new higher-spec box anyway.

Rob.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:09:51 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

>I can build and have a system up and running in about half a day.

And what about time spent purchasing the components and did that include the
operating system and software?? What about those times when you got an
awkward new motherboard which didn't work with a component?

And don't get me started if one of the components was DOA! Getting the
supermarket suppliers like Dabs & Insight to replace them is a nightmare...

Rob.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:12:45 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

> As you say though getting an engineer out can sometimes be
> problematic. I've been finding their call center problematic at times.

Dell's customer care did go down hill last year, about the same time they
outsourced to India... I believe there have been so many complaints that
this is under review. We had one particularly hilarious support job where we
just wanted a missing CD-ROM for a laptop (it was missing on delivery). The
probably spent more time on the support call than the £1 CD-ROM.

But compared to Gigabyte support...

Rob.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:14:46 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

>> "But I have 3 year on-site warranty" you say
>
> For what Dell charge? You must be joking! :-)

We don't bother with the 3 year on-site warranty except for the servers -
one year RTB is fine. For desktops and even laptops it just doesn't make
financial sense. For the occasional system that might fail, then just buy
another one. 2 x new systems in a 50 user site compared to 50 x 3 year
warranty - you do the math :-)

Rob.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:15:41 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

> I have the impression (correct me if I am wrong) that the component
> qulaity and the build quality of a Dell is pretty decent. Sure it is

The build quality is probably unmatched. Laptops are a bit less reliable but
then again, they always are...

Rob.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:16:53 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 10:04:54 GMT, "Rob Nicholson"
<rob.nicholson@nospam_unforgettable.com> wrote:

>> chosen to buy in some Dell PCs for the office. One reason might be that I
>> am, as you say, an idiot. The other reason might be that the Dells do the
>> job I need for the office, and they cost 20% less to buy in ready-built
>> than the price at which I can buy the parts.
>
>20%? Yes, that probably sounds about right. We've only built one custom PC
>at work (a dual Athlon XP system) and we've had no end of problems with it -
>it's always got the top off :-) The Dell PCs & servers just sit there and
>work 24/7.

This is the thing with Dell compareed to many self builds. Dell go for
reasonable quality components that are not pushing too hard but are
stable. They have checked for compatibility so you known there most
likley won't be odd conflicts (at least at the driver release you
get).

How many people self build a server with a hot swap SCSI array and hot
swap redundant power supplies? Thats the sort of area where Dell is
good..
--
Gamma gamma gamma chameleon
You come and glow, you come and glow.
Kick out the cats before you reply
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:17:16 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

> .... does that translate into "no one ever got fired for buying an IBM"
> :o )))))))))

Do they still make Thinkpads themselves? I know they've just sold the entire
PC arm to a company in China.

Rob.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:19:28 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

> I ask because your suggestion/experience of Dell has no reflection on
> what it's like in the UK (Britain)

Eh? Software purchased with a Dell PC (i.e. Windows XP Professional & Office
2003) is always cheaper than purchased separately, unless you have a huge
license agreement.

Rob.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:20:57 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

> 1, the CPU cooler consisted of a green plastic duct over the metalwork
> led to a 120 mm fan on the rear, nice and quiet.

Those are nice aren't they - I'd never class Dell PCs as loud. Compared to
some of their rack mount servers which sound like a jumbo jet :-)

> 2, No AGP socket - the solder pads are there on the board, but no
> socket. This one had onboard graphics. If you wanted to upgrade to
> decent graphics you'd have to use a PCI card.

Out of interest, what's the performance of a PCI graphics card compared to
an AGP one?

Rob.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:43:12 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

In article <60PCd.43$iX.5@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
rob.nicholson@nospam_unforgettable.com, a.k.a Rob Nicholson says...


> Dell kit is incredibly reliable ...

My experience with Dell differs, both from the point of sale, and
getting support on both warranty and out of warranty machines.

Try telling the totally crippled & disabled lady in the wheelchair who's
lifeline was/is the internet, that her 14 month old Dell is completely
knackered and there's nothing you can do 'off the shelf' because it's a
Dell, like I had to do last month.

Dell wouldn't take on the repair. It needed a replacement mainboard.
Her son purchased a 2nd user IBM Aptiva off me which AFAIK, is still
working.

Try apologising to a guy for recommending Dell to him when he needed an
urgent but budget replacement PC, and who then had an awful experience
with Dell sales, giving him the complete run-around, so much so he
wasted more time than if he'd gone to Dixons and bought a Packard Bell.
He was not impressed with my 'recommendation'... I swore never to do so
again as my reputation had been 'tarnished'.

Get told by Dell support to 'pull' a machine apart on the bedroom floor
when on the phone to them.

I was at a clients to try and solve a non-booting system, called Dell
Tech Support as the thing was under warranty and needed an engineer. The
OP i spoke to had me (she thought I was a non technical customer)
pulling out memory, CMOS battery, unplugging this, unplugging that ...
all on a nylon bedroom carpet with no anti-stat procedures. Eventually,
I held my hands up in despair and handed the phone to the actual owner
of the machine who really lost it on the phone with the OP. I know not
the outcome as I got paid for my time, and left.

My homebuilt PC here is very reliable, it cost more than a Dell would,
but I know I can repair it the same day if any hardware fails. Keeping
it up and running is a damn site more important to me than saving £100
and then faffing around trying to get Dell to fix it.

> If one of the Dell base units failed, we wouldn't bother trying to fix it..
> We'd simply buy a new base unit for ~£200. £200 doesn't buy you a lot of
> "fixing" time and you'll have a nice new higher-spec box anyway.

Nice to have the budget ... I could fix my PC here for a *lot* less than
£200 though.

Each to their own of course, but I won't personally buy or recommend
Dell through my own bad experiences with them.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:53:54 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

In article <P1PCd.47$iX.40@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
rob.nicholson@nospam_unforgettable.com, a.k.a Rob Nicholson says...


> And what about time spent purchasing the components and did that include the
> operating system and software?? What about those times when you got an
> awkward new motherboard which didn't work with a component?

I already posted I could buy, build, and have a system up and running in
a day. I've done it. There's nothing to it.

Buying a Dell still involves time.

Why would I buy an awkward motherboard in the first place? I'd buy brand
name, based on experience and reviews. Not some godforsaken name i'd
never heard of from some 'geezer' at the local fair.

> And don't get me started if one of the components was DOA!

Dell aren't excluded from supplying DOA systems.

> Getting the supermarket suppliers like Dabs & Insight
> to replace them is a nightmare...

And it's not with Dell?

The point is, if a component is DOA, I can, if need be, nip down my
local store and get a replacement, then sort out the RMA with the online
supplier. I'd be entitled to a full refund at that early stage, so I
wouldn't be seeking a replacement.

Look, at the end of the day, you are never going to convince me that
Dell is a better option as my experience begs to differ. I appreciate
that there are situations where Dell is the preferred option based on
cost, but I tend to look beyond budget due the experiences I've had with
Dell, and as such, they aren't a manufacturer i will use.

You'll go blue before I'm convinced otherwise.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 1:57:24 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

In article <QaPCd.57$iX.14@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
rob.nicholson@nospam_unforgettable.com, a.k.a Rob Nicholson says...

> > I ask because your suggestion/experience of Dell has no reflection on
> > what it's like in the UK (Britain)
>
> Eh? Software purchased with a Dell PC (i.e. Windows XP Professional & Office
> 2003) is always cheaper than purchased separately, unless you have a huge
> license agreement

I wasn't talking exclusively about software licensing.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 2:38:39 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

In article <MPG.1c45c189de0fefae989edb@news.individual.net>,
tx2newscollection@hotmail.com says...
> In article <MPG.1c451f98d8cb620e989dee@news-server.columbus.rr.com>,
> void@nowhere.lan, a.k.a Leythos says...
>
> [...]
>
> > When it comes to home computers, sure, Dell is not going to sell you a
> > bleeding edge system as cheap as you can buy the parts yourself, but
> > they will get the OS and Apps cheaper as well as many of the extras. The
> > big place they get the self-builder is the apps and support/warranty.
>
>
> Are you 'talking' about the situation from outside the UK?
>
> I ask because your suggestion/experience of Dell has no reflection on
> what it's like in the UK (Britain)

And how does it differ in the UK? If you're going to suggest that it's
different in the UK you should give specific examples of how it differs.


--
--
spamfree999@rrohio.com
(Remove 999 to reply to me)
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 3:00:20 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

In article <MPG.1c459cacf608225c989df3@news-server.columbus.rr.com>,
void@nowhere.lan, a.k.a Leythos says...

> In article <MPG.1c45c189de0fefae989edb@news.individual.net>,
> tx2newscollection@hotmail.com says...

> > I ask because your suggestion/experience of Dell has no reflection on
> > what it's like in the UK (Britain)
>
> And how does it differ in the UK? If you're going to suggest that it's
> different in the UK you should give specific examples of how it differs.

I have given examples of my experience with Dell in the UK via another
posting, and I believe there have been other posts made reflecting such
from other users in this thread.

You suggested the "big place they get the self-builder is the apps and
support/warranty"

Whilst they may be able to secure better pricing on apps, their support,
IME, is not up to the standard you reflect it as being wherever you are
located.

They are a big organisation, and IME, it is rare for big organisations
to give as good as, and certainly not better, support than your local
independent self-builder.

FTR, I am discussing Dell from a self-build angle, and not cutting edge
technology servers et al, of which i have no experience.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 3:17:31 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:00:20 -0000, Tx2 <tx2newscollection@hotmail.com>
wrote:

<snip>

>Whilst they may be able to secure better pricing on apps, their support,
>IME, is not up to the standard you reflect it as being wherever you are
>located.
>
>They are a big organisation, and IME, it is rare for big organisations
>to give as good as, and certainly not better, support than your local
>independent self-builder.

Of course thats assuming that the self builder is never going to go on
say a 1 or 2 week holiday, say leaving the company the self built
machine for in the lurch until they get back.

Or say the builder is out fixing another machine whilst one fails and
is unable to get there the same day to fix that one as its a one man
business.

>FTR, I am discussing Dell from a self-build angle, and not cutting edge
>technology servers et al, of which i have no experience.

Servers can be self built, but unless you understand the technology
beind them I wouldn't recomend it. They don't tend to be cutting edge
technology anyway, better to be just behind the curve and have kit
that is tried and tested to be compatible, stable and robust.

I guess you are talking more from the perspective desk top PC in an
environment that can cope with it being out for a day or more, e.g. a
business non PC centric or a home user.


--
Gamma gamma gamma chameleon
You come and glow, you come and glow.
Kick out the cats before you reply
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 3:24:52 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

In article <MPG.1c45e73111b7429d989ee3@news.individual.net>,
tx2newscollection@hotmail.com says...
> You suggested the "big place they get the self-builder is the apps and
> support/warranty"
>
> Whilst they may be able to secure better pricing on apps, their support,
> IME, is not up to the standard you reflect it as being wherever you are
> located.

The price difference on their apps can make a huge difference in pricing
to the customers. Since you appear to have not purchased GOLD level
support from Dell you might want to reconsider - a gold plan can be
purchased for as little as $49/US here and makes a big difference in
support. As for home/store the support difference is large. A home
builder has NO support for hardware or APPs - the Dell buyer has both.

> They are a big organisation, and IME, it is rare for big organisations
> to give as good as, and certainly not better, support than your local
> independent self-builder.

And most every small shop is almost always on a brake-even sales slide
and support, for free, is something they can't afford to provide. Most
small shops are stocked with kids that know less than your average
support script reader from Dell's off-shore unit.

> FTR, I am discussing Dell from a self-build angle, and not cutting edge
> technology servers et al, of which i have no experience.

So am I. I bought about 1.3 million in Dell servers and workstations
last year, got great prices and support for every one of them for the
clients that needed support. They would not have saved ANY money going
in the home/self build route. You appear to be missing the reason why
people buy Dell's and others.

--
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spamfree999@rrohio.com
(Remove 999 to reply to me)
January 5, 2005 3:28:28 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

"Tx2" <tx2newscollection@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c45e73111b7429d989ee3@news.individual.net...
>
> I have given examples of my experience with Dell in the UK via another
> posting, and I believe there have been other posts made reflecting such
> from other users in this thread.
>

I can well believe the difficulties you mention with Dell.

However, on the plus side, they do at least test-run the systems before
shipping them, so that cuts down some of the problems. All the components in
the system are tested first by the manufacturers and then by Dell when they
test-run the system.

If you buy your components from an online supplier, you are of course having
to deal with *their* often shitty customer services if you have a problem. I
have had more duff components than duff fully-built PCs because the PCs go
through the second stage of testing. I am sure that you do the same when you
build a system for a customer, so I am not suggesting that Dell are doing
anything particularly clever here.

Geoff
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 4:04:55 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c45a8bbeaed2c7c989df4@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> In article <MPG.1c45e73111b7429d989ee3@news.individual.net>,
> tx2newscollection@hotmail.com says...
>> You suggested the "big place they get the self-builder is the apps and
>> support/warranty"
>>
>> Whilst they may be able to secure better pricing on apps, their support,
>> IME, is not up to the standard you reflect it as being wherever you are
>> located.
>
> The price difference on their apps can make a huge difference in pricing
> to the customers. Since you appear to have not purchased GOLD level
> support from Dell you might want to reconsider - a gold plan can be
> purchased for as little as $49/US here and makes a big difference in
> support. As for home/store the support difference is large. A home
> builder has NO support for hardware or APPs - the Dell buyer has both.
>
>> They are a big organisation, and IME, it is rare for big organisations
>> to give as good as, and certainly not better, support than your local
>> independent self-builder.
>
> And most every small shop is almost always on a brake-even sales slide
> and support, for free, is something they can't afford to provide. Most
> small shops are stocked with kids that know less than your average
> support script reader from Dell's off-shore unit.
>
>> FTR, I am discussing Dell from a self-build angle, and not cutting edge
>> technology servers et al, of which i have no experience.
>
> So am I. I bought about 1.3 million in Dell servers and workstations
> last year, got great prices and support for every one of them for the
> clients that needed support. They would not have saved ANY money going
> in the home/self build route. You appear to be missing the reason why
> people buy Dell's and others.
>
> --
> --
> spamfree999@rrohio.com
> (Remove 999 to reply to me)

I personally wouldn't buy Dell or any other brand name for a home PC.

OTOH, I would buy Dell or a brand name for corporate use and that's what
most companies do because they get the economies of scale and they do get
good support but Dell and others just don't give that sort of backing to the
home user. Remember that if one of your machines goes down and you're a
company with 5 or 10+ machines you're gonna lose a relatively low percentage
of your productivity for a relatively short space of time. If your home PC
goes tits up you'll lose 100% for at least a few days, sometimes weeks.

If Dell sold home machines with standard components for a realistic price
then I might be interested but what Dell have tried to do, and fortunately
failed IMO to achieve is total market domination by cutting their margins to
the bone in order to price competitors out.

Also bear in mind that here in the UK we often get a much poorer deal than
US customers in terms of service and price for reasons that are far too sad
to debate in this thread so please don't assume you can purchase uprated
support services at bargain prices because we often don't have access to
those options or those prices.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
January 5, 2005 4:58:08 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.vendors,uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.gigabyte (More info?)

If you want a GOOD computer, assembly one your own.
If you want a regular generic computer with low life spam, buy one from dell
or compac or any damn griffe.

"Lem" <z@mail.com> escreveu na mensagem
news:95D3C039A8FB6D5E712@130.133.1.4...
> Do all Dell PCs (for the UK market) come with Dell's own
> motherboards?
>
> I am thinking of getting a Dell but I don't want to find that it uses
> a Dell proprietary motherboard that may have little technical data
> available.
>
> ISTR hearing that Dell used a non-standad wiring on the 20 or 24 pin
> mobo power connector. And I imagine there may be several other Dell
> quirks.
>
!