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A7N8X-E Deluxe - Where to get PC3200 RAM on ASUS tested list

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January 10, 2005 3:44:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

I'm building a new PC with an ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe and an Athlon XP
2800+ (Barton). I want to install two 512MB PC3200 modules to run in
dual channel mode at 200MHz. (or maybe 166 MHz. to match the bus
frequency - I think I've read that with the Atholn XP, synchronous at
the lower speed is actually faster).

The problem is that I just can't find memory with the exact same part
number as listed on the ASUS web site as having been tested. (I can't
find a list for the -E Deluxe but there is one for the A7N8X Deluxe
and I assume they are the same memory-wise).

www.newegg.com has a two module kit (2 X 512) of TWINMOS for $140 and
TWINMOS is on the list, but with no specific part number.

www.ms4me.com has a two module kit (2 X 512) of Samsung memory for
about $150 and htey have a 100% positive feedback rating on PriceWatch
but they don't show the manufacturers full part number either.

Has anybody here used either of these memories on an A7N8X / A7N8X-E
Deluxe or have anyother advice for me.

I appreciate it.

Louis
Anonymous
a b } Memory
a b V Motherboard
January 10, 2005 1:13:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"Lou" <DontThinkSo@NoISP.com> schreef in bericht
news:ua84u0lu3cfach7cejnp4cf5o7fhof5ct9@4ax.com...
> I'm building a new PC with an ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe and an Athlon XP
> 2800+ (Barton). I want to install two 512MB PC3200 modules to run in
> dual channel mode at 200MHz. (or maybe 166 MHz. to match the bus
> frequency - I think I've read that with the Atholn XP, synchronous at
> the lower speed is actually faster).
>
> The problem is that I just can't find memory with the exact same part
> number as listed on the ASUS web site as having been tested. (I can't
> find a list for the -E Deluxe but there is one for the A7N8X Deluxe
> and I assume they are the same memory-wise).
>
> www.newegg.com has a two module kit (2 X 512) of TWINMOS for $140 and
> TWINMOS is on the list, but with no specific part number.
>
> www.ms4me.com has a two module kit (2 X 512) of Samsung memory for
> about $150 and htey have a 100% positive feedback rating on PriceWatch
> but they don't show the manufacturers full part number either.
>
> Has anybody here used either of these memories on an A7N8X / A7N8X-E
> Deluxe or have anyother advice for me.
>
> I appreciate it.
>
>
Louis
>
Hi

Í run a A7n8x-e MoBo (+ cpu: Amd 3000+)
with a twin-couple of memory of corsair typeTWINX512-3200LLPT. (partnr.
0304045)
And it runs very well with it, stable and fast.
gr fr




>
Anonymous
a b } Memory
a b V Motherboard
January 11, 2005 2:12:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Thus spake Paul:
> I use Ballistix PC3200 at DDR400 2-2-2-6 and find it is error
> free in dual channel mode. But it is a little more expensive
> than the Mushkin. If you only plan to ever run the memory
> at DDR333 (166MHz), you may not need to bother with the more
> expensive memories.

Just what I wanted to know Paul, so thanks for that. I'm toying with the
idea of replacing my XP1800+ with an XP2400 m & 2x512 PC3200 to replace my
Crucial 2x256 sticks. My concern was that the Crucial RAM isn't recommended
by Asus but do they update these recommendations - probably not for an "old"
m/b such as this one.
Related resources
January 11, 2005 2:12:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <34ggcuF49befqU1@individual.net>, "Paul Busby" <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

> Thus spake Paul:
> > I use Ballistix PC3200 at DDR400 2-2-2-6 and find it is error
> > free in dual channel mode. But it is a little more expensive
> > than the Mushkin. If you only plan to ever run the memory
> > at DDR333 (166MHz), you may not need to bother with the more
> > expensive memories.
>
> Just what I wanted to know Paul, so thanks for that. I'm toying with the
> idea of replacing my XP1800+ with an XP2400 m & 2x512 PC3200 to replace my
> Crucial 2x256 sticks. My concern was that the Crucial RAM isn't recommended
> by Asus but do they update these recommendations - probably not for an "old"
> m/b such as this one.

My purchase was just like everyone else - "pays your money,
takes your chances". I mean, when the QVL still has Winbond
based DIMMs listed (Winbond going out of production more than
a year ago), what good is such a QVL ? Asus just doesn't seem
to be that interested in maintaining their QVLs.

http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?langs=09&m=A7N8X (see bottom of page)

I didn't know whether this RAM would work or not, and
it was either pick the Ballistix (with the latest Micron
chip rev on it) or pick one of the other six suppliers
selling CAS2 Samsung TCCD ram (like Corsair 3200XL). I selected
the Ballistix partially based on being able to easily move it
between my A7N8X-E and P4C800-E. So far, no problems on either
board, running at stock PC3200 speeds, 2-2-2-6, dual channel.

My purchase was the process of elimination. Reports of certain
CAS3 sticks not working, some cheap CAS3 I already had that
wouldn't work without errors, reading reports of PC4000 memory
not fixing the problem on the A7N8X etc - that left CAS2 as the
only other alternative. So I got lucky...

Not all chipsets are this bad, but it would seem that there
are still designs out there (including some of the Athlon64
processors) that aren't really that happy at DDR400.

It is a lot like "high tech roulette" :-)

Paul
January 12, 2005 4:30:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Sure enough - and it's only $79.99 with free shipping straight from
their web site! I notice that it is only CAS-3; I'd be more
comfortable with 2 or 2.5. Even though I have a 166MHz. FSB CPU
(Athlon 2600+ Barton) I can run the memory at 200 MHz. async. for
testing with memtest86 during the return period.

Thanks,

Louis

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:32:08 -0000, "Matt" <matt@cyborg.plus.com>
wrote:

>
>"Paul Busby" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:34ggcuF49befqU1@individual.net...
>> Thus spake Paul:
>>> I use Ballistix PC3200 at DDR400 2-2-2-6 and find it is error
>>> free in dual channel mode. But it is a little more expensive
>>> than the Mushkin. If you only plan to ever run the memory
>>> at DDR333 (166MHz), you may not need to bother with the more
>>> expensive memories.
>>
>> Just what I wanted to know Paul, so thanks for that. I'm toying with the
>> idea of replacing my XP1800+ with an XP2400 m & 2x512 PC3200 to replace my
>> Crucial 2x256 sticks. My concern was that the Crucial RAM isn't
>> recommended by Asus but do they update these recommendations - probably
>> not for an "old" m/b such as this one.
>>
>
>Crucial test and guarantee there own RAMS on each motherboard, so if you
>went through their RAM selector and selected the correct RAM for your
>motherboard and it did not work then you would be able to get it replaced.
>
>Matt
>
January 12, 2005 9:39:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <4sj9u0lsckp8mo8061f8kkv647d55god38@4ax.com>, Lou
<DontThinkSo@NoISP.com> wrote:

> Sure enough - and it's only $79.99 with free shipping straight from
> their web site! I notice that it is only CAS-3; I'd be more
> comfortable with 2 or 2.5. Even though I have a 166MHz. FSB CPU
> (Athlon 2600+ Barton) I can run the memory at 200 MHz. async. for
> testing with memtest86 during the return period.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Louis

If you buy two and run it dual channel 3-3-3-8, tell us whether
it passes Prime95 (mixed) torture test or not, at DDR400. That is
the "acid test".

The CT6464Z40B PC3200 module is likely based on a MT46V32M8-5B chip.
On page 59, CL=3 at 5ns, Trcd is 15ns, and that equals 3 ticks of
5ns each, Trp is also 15ns, so that is 3 ticks. Tras is 40ns min,
and that is 8 ticks of 5ns each. That is where I came up with
the guess of 3-3-3-8 above. (When you do the conversion math, you
round up to the nearest whole tick for all the parameters except
CL, as CL is rated in half tick increments.)

http://download.micron.com/pdf/datasheets/dram/ddr/256M...

You can use an auto setting in the BIOS, and then verify the
memory timing in Windows using http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php .
The BIOS should find the 3-3-3-8 parameters in the SPD EEPROM
chip (the tiny eight pin device) on the DIMM.

Set Vdimm to >= 2.6V, as 2.6V is the minimum for operation at
PC3200 speeds.

Paul

>
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:32:08 -0000, "Matt" <matt@cyborg.plus.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Paul Busby" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >news:34ggcuF49befqU1@individual.net...
> >> Thus spake Paul:
> >>> I use Ballistix PC3200 at DDR400 2-2-2-6 and find it is error
> >>> free in dual channel mode. But it is a little more expensive
> >>> than the Mushkin. If you only plan to ever run the memory
> >>> at DDR333 (166MHz), you may not need to bother with the more
> >>> expensive memories.
> >>
> >> Just what I wanted to know Paul, so thanks for that. I'm toying with the
> >> idea of replacing my XP1800+ with an XP2400 m & 2x512 PC3200 to replace my
> >> Crucial 2x256 sticks. My concern was that the Crucial RAM isn't
> >> recommended by Asus but do they update these recommendations - probably
> >> not for an "old" m/b such as this one.
> >>
> >
> >Crucial test and guarantee there own RAMS on each motherboard, so if you
> >went through their RAM selector and selected the correct RAM for your
> >motherboard and it did not work then you would be able to get it replaced.
> >
> >Matt
> >
January 13, 2005 3:14:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <fknbu012189jaimcv62fknjhhkmj47sop6@4ax.com>, Lou
<DontThinkSo@NoISP.com> wrote:

> Thanks again Paul. I understand your position and certainly am not
> looking for "your word" that some particular RAM will work flawlessly.
>
> I went ahead and bit the bullet with Crucial today because of their
> money back guarantee and because I cannot afford premium memory right
> now. I talked to a sales guy about the compatibility guarantee and he
> said that if I set the FNS to run at 800 MHz. the RAM would run at 400
> MHz. I said that I thought he was thinking of a Pentium IV mobo and
> that an Athlon XP mobo ran at 400 MHz. max. and he said "that will
> work fine - it's backward compatible so at that FSB speed it will
> automatically back down to PC2100 speed." OK, so he doesn't know any
> more than I do, but I chalked that up to him being a salesman and not
> a technician.
>
> Since I have a 333 MHz. FSB CPU (Athlon XP 2800+) I understand that I
> may get better performance running the memory synchronously at 333,
> but for testint the memory, will it be a valid stress test to run it
> asynchronously at 400 MHz. while running memtest86 and the other
> tests?
>
> Thanks (I'll try to leave tyou alone now!).
>
> Louis

<<snip>>

Here are some results I gathered:

Timings, where CAS Latency is the first number, followed by
memory bandwidth, as detected by memtest86 version 1.4. The
CPU conditions are given after that.

2-2-2-8 1511MB/sec (CPU=200x11, DDR400)
2.5-2-2-8 1485MB/sec (CPU=200x11, DDR400)
3-2-2-8 1485MB/sec (CPU=200x11, DDR400)
2.5-3-3-8 1435MB/sec (CPU=200x11, DDR400)
3-3-3-8 1435MB/sec (CPU=200x11, DDR400)

What this seems to be showing me, is the Nvidia memory
controller cannot start the memory transfer on a half
cycle, or something like that. It certainly gives the
appearance of running at CAS3, when CAS2.5 is selected.
Even CPUZ reports CAS2.5, when the BIOS is set to CAS2.5,
so I don't know exactly how this works. But the exactly
equal memory bandwidths don't seem to be an accident.

To duplicate your conditions, I tried the following with
my memory set back to 2-2-2-8. The CPU was set to 166x12.5,
which is as near as I can get to 2200MHz without hacking
something. Memtest86 version 1.4 reports:

CPU=166x12.5 Memory=100% setting 2-2-2-8 ==> 1254MB/sec
CPU=166x12.5 Memory=120% setting 2-2-2-8 ==> 1236MB/sec

So, in fact, running memory synchronous at 100%, is more
efficient than running the memory higher. I suspect if the
memory was lifted a lot higher, that could change to seeing
an improvement.

Now, the conventional wisdom is, you should run synchronous
to avoid memory errors. I'm running four copies of Prime95
under Knoppix linux, and so far (10 minutes) there are no
signs of error. So maybe the reports of problems running
async were actually due to the speed problem with the
nforce2, rather than a problem caused by running async in
and of itself.

It would appear that using 100% is the way you should go for
long term performance, while if you want to test the memory
at 120%, there should be no harm done. Running the memory at
166MHz should allow use of CAS2.5, while 200MHz takes you to
CAS3 (i.e. the rated 3-3-3-8 performance). But as I observed
in the memtest86 results above, I doubt the difference in
the CAS setting will make a visible difference, as CAS2.5
seems to work exactly like CAS3. (On an Intel chipset, it
might make a difference.)

If Prime95 throws any errors, I'll post a followup. (I'm not
posting from the test machine, so whatever happens to it
doesn't matter :-)

HTH,
Paul
January 13, 2005 11:14:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <41e6be87$0$48683$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net>, "Matt"
<matt@cyborg.plus.com> wrote:

> >
> > I am using :-
> >
> > 2*256 MB DDR400 (PC3200) Crucial
> > 1*512 MB DDR400 (PC3200) Crucial
> >
> > in dual channel mode and overclocked to 210Mhz without any problems on my
> > AN78X-E Dlx with my Barton XP3200+
> >
> > Matt
> >
>
> Oh and I had to set RAM timings to SPD in the BIOS which reports 9,4,4,4,3T.
>
> If I run RAM at 200Mhz then BIOS reads 8,3,3,3,2.5T
>
> Matt

Would that be 8,3,3,3T at 200MHz ? I thought that is what vanilla
PC3200 Crucial runs at.

The chips on a PC3200 DIMM could be Micron 46V32M8-5 , and the -5 refers
to the 5ns for a 200MHz clock, or DDR400. (At least the 512MB stick is
likely to use the 32Mx8 chip, but the 256MB DIMMs can be made at
least two ways, so no guarantees on which chips are used on those.
If the 256MB modules are single sided, that raises the odds of finding
46V32M8-5 on them.

On page 14 here, the allowed values for CAS are 2, 2.5, and 3.
I don't think CAS will go any higher than 3. Or at least,
higher settings are not documented.

http://download.micron.com/pdf/datasheets/dram/ddr/256M...

It is good to hear of at least one report of a CAS3 memory
working in dual channel on the Nforce2. Louis can sleep
easy tonight :-)

I'm curious. Have you tested with Prime95 (mersenne.org) ?
I'd like to know if it passes Prime95 or not. My first
(generic, cheap) memory passed memtest86, but failed Prime95
after less than an hour of testing.

The Prime95 test I was running earlier today didn't have
any errors, using a memory setting of 120%, and a CPU clock
of 166MHs, so running sync doesn't seem to be an absolute
requirement for dual channel. (I normally run at 100% and
200Mhz clock, so won't be leaving it that way.)

Paul
January 14, 2005 2:11:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Thank you again. You must be retired or have a great job! Once I get
my new PC built with the Crucial memory, I'll run some tests and post
the results.

Louis

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 12:14:51 -0500, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>In article <fknbu012189jaimcv62fknjhhkmj47sop6@4ax.com>, Lou
><DontThinkSo@NoISP.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks again Paul. I understand your position and certainly am not
>> looking for "your word" that some particular RAM will work flawlessly.
>>
>> I went ahead and bit the bullet with Crucial today because of their
>> money back guarantee and because I cannot afford premium memory right
>> now. I talked to a sales guy about the compatibility guarantee and he
>> said that if I set the FNS to run at 800 MHz. the RAM would run at 400
>> MHz. I said that I thought he was thinking of a Pentium IV mobo and
>> that an Athlon XP mobo ran at 400 MHz. max. and he said "that will
>> work fine - it's backward compatible so at that FSB speed it will
>> automatically back down to PC2100 speed." OK, so he doesn't know any
>> more than I do, but I chalked that up to him being a salesman and not
>> a technician.
>>
>> Since I have a 333 MHz. FSB CPU (Athlon XP 2800+) I understand that I
>> may get better performance running the memory synchronously at 333,
>> but for testint the memory, will it be a valid stress test to run it
>> asynchronously at 400 MHz. while running memtest86 and the other
>> tests?
>>
>> Thanks (I'll try to leave tyou alone now!).
>>
>> Louis
>
><<snip>>
>
>Here are some results I gathered:
>
>Timings, where CAS Latency is the first number, followed by
>memory bandwidth, as detected by memtest86 version 1.4. The
>CPU conditions are given after that.
>
> 2-2-2-8 1511MB/sec (CPU=200x11, DDR400)
>2.5-2-2-8 1485MB/sec (CPU=200x11, DDR400)
> 3-2-2-8 1485MB/sec (CPU=200x11, DDR400)
>2.5-3-3-8 1435MB/sec (CPU=200x11, DDR400)
> 3-3-3-8 1435MB/sec (CPU=200x11, DDR400)
>
>What this seems to be showing me, is the Nvidia memory
>controller cannot start the memory transfer on a half
>cycle, or something like that. It certainly gives the
>appearance of running at CAS3, when CAS2.5 is selected.
>Even CPUZ reports CAS2.5, when the BIOS is set to CAS2.5,
>so I don't know exactly how this works. But the exactly
>equal memory bandwidths don't seem to be an accident.
>
>To duplicate your conditions, I tried the following with
>my memory set back to 2-2-2-8. The CPU was set to 166x12.5,
>which is as near as I can get to 2200MHz without hacking
>something. Memtest86 version 1.4 reports:
>
>CPU=166x12.5 Memory=100% setting 2-2-2-8 ==> 1254MB/sec
>CPU=166x12.5 Memory=120% setting 2-2-2-8 ==> 1236MB/sec
>
>So, in fact, running memory synchronous at 100%, is more
>efficient than running the memory higher. I suspect if the
>memory was lifted a lot higher, that could change to seeing
>an improvement.
>
>Now, the conventional wisdom is, you should run synchronous
>to avoid memory errors. I'm running four copies of Prime95
>under Knoppix linux, and so far (10 minutes) there are no
>signs of error. So maybe the reports of problems running
>async were actually due to the speed problem with the
>nforce2, rather than a problem caused by running async in
>and of itself.
>
>It would appear that using 100% is the way you should go for
>long term performance, while if you want to test the memory
>at 120%, there should be no harm done. Running the memory at
>166MHz should allow use of CAS2.5, while 200MHz takes you to
>CAS3 (i.e. the rated 3-3-3-8 performance). But as I observed
>in the memtest86 results above, I doubt the difference in
>the CAS setting will make a visible difference, as CAS2.5
>seems to work exactly like CAS3. (On an Intel chipset, it
>might make a difference.)
>
>If Prime95 throws any errors, I'll post a followup. (I'm not
>posting from the test machine, so whatever happens to it
>doesn't matter :-)
>
>HTH,
> Paul
January 14, 2005 2:12:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Thanks, Matt. It is good to know the Crucial RAM is running well for
you.

Louis

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 18:31:45 -0000, "Matt" <matt@cyborg.plus.com>
wrote:

>>
>> I am using :-
>>
>> 2*256 MB DDR400 (PC3200) Crucial
>> 1*512 MB DDR400 (PC3200) Crucial
>>
>> in dual channel mode and overclocked to 210Mhz without any problems on my
>> AN78X-E Dlx with my Barton XP3200+
>>
>> Matt
>>
>
>Oh and I had to set RAM timings to SPD in the BIOS which reports 9,4,4,4,3T.
>
>If I run RAM at 200Mhz then BIOS reads 8,3,3,3,2.5T
>
>Matt
>
!