Can someone explain this to me?

[wanamingo]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/07/military-suicide-surges-_n_1578821.html

Suicides are surging among America's troops, averaging nearly one a day this year – the fastest pace in the nation's decade of war.

The 154 suicides for active-duty troops in the first 155 days of the year far outdistance the U.S. forces killed in action in Afghanistan – about 50 percent more – according to Pentagon statistics obtained by The Associated Press.

The numbers reflect a military burdened with wartime demands from Iraq and Afghanistan that have taken a greater toll than foreseen a decade ago. The military also is struggling with increased sexual assaults, alcohol abuse, domestic violence and other misbehavior.

Because suicides had leveled off in 2010 and 2011, this year's upswing has caught some officials by surprise.

The reasons for the increase are not fully understood. Among explanations, studies have pointed to combat exposure, post-traumatic stress, misuse of prescription medications and personal financial problems. Army data suggest soldiers with multiple combat tours are at greater risk of committing suicide, although a substantial proportion of Army suicides are committed by soldiers who never deployed.

Im interested if anyone with any military background can give some insight into what the hell is going on. I have family in the military and I find this probably the most troubling thing about sending people into combat.

You have a higher chance of suicide than you do dieing in combat.

 

[gropouce]

Interesting.

Maybe the bitter disappointment to observe, on returning home after a nice little war, that being a soldier does not make you a hero, despite preconceptions.
The war dead have more recognition. What alternative to suicide?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

On the contrary, anyone who doesnt accept these people as heros are sick, self centered pukes who have little minds.
Of course, unless one joins the military to be a hero.....
not sure about that statement gropouce.
People in a volunteer army are professionals, not draftees.
As to the suicides, Im guessing stress

 

[Reynod]

gropouce the French philosophers are considered the experts on suicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Sisyphus

 

[Reynod]

Maybe they shoulc cut the spending on the military ... that should balance the budget?

 

[gropouce]

On the contrary, anyone who doesnt accept these people as heros are sick, self centered pukes who have little minds.
Of course, unless one joins the military to be a hero.....
not sure about that statement gropouce.
People in a volunteer army are professionals, not draftees.
As to the suicides, Im guessing stress

If one becomes a hero simply by foolishly obey orders which he does not understand the scope, my dog ​​deserves the Nobel.
As for the argument "serve his country" (which is debatable until I was clearly explains how to make war thousands of miles from home can serve his country), I would say better that it is laudable, not "heroic".
So, maybe i'm sick, but i won't accept to be told that i'm "self centered pukes". My job actually told me i'm not.
Draftees people should be possibly recognize as heroes, not the man who accepts his job with all risks it contains.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Well, obviously two things, the French arent kniown for winning wars, and these soldiers would never have to fight along side you, as youd never have the umption to do so, so its all good

 

[gropouce]

That indicates poor knowledge of history (of my country as much as yours).
But it does not matter; no argument, no discussion, so i'm done.

 

[wanamingo]

JDJ you sound like a freedom fries eating fool.

Since 387 BC France has fought 168 major wars and won 109 of them, lost 49, and drawn 10.

So their record isnt bad.....

I know this is going to sound absolutely terrible but signing up for the military doesn't make you a hero. Doing heroic things makes you a hero.

Back to the point though, is this war worse on the ground than anyone is admitting?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I just dont appreciate negative comments, for those that do serve, and have lived thru all this.
Oh and gropouce, watch out, I hear Mexico may want revenge

 

[gropouce]

Hey Jaydee, there is no disrespect to say that soldiers are not heroes, as I said, what they do is laudable but they are not heroes to me.

Talking about negative comments, remember you start the discussion telling me i am "sick, self centered puke who have little mind."
I admit, when someone is convinced that he is right, he no longer needs to work his ass off to think, but there's no reason to start with insults.

And I do not get what the reference to Mexico has to do with the debate.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

No, self centered is where it is applied.
Im sorry you applied it to yourself.
I didnt address you, only those who criticize before theyve done a thing, period.
You would judge someone before you knew?
They may have saved your family, as their grandfather in France may have done, so ease it down on the criticism

And if their grandfather did save French families, are they not heroes?

 

[gropouce]

There is a big misunderstanding.
I do not criticize or judge no one.
I do not accept that a soldier is a hero by definition.
Some soldiers are heroes, no doubt, but that's not enough to generalize. And I do not believe that heroes are the majority in the armies
A man who saves a baby from drowning may be considered as a hero, but that does not mean that all men are heroes.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

And all Im saying is, to start off with the negative/non hero isnt the best way either.
Many heroes go unsung

 

[riser]

I was talking to my neighbor about this over the weekend.

Consider many of the troops who are entering the military. Many of them don't have much going for them and joining the military is a last resort. Generally, you don't have access to a weapon easily unless deployed to war.

Think about how many people we have in the military and that are exposed to extreme conditions. Many of them are facing financial issues back home (housing market, parents having issues, etc) and many of them are also having maritial issues or girlfriends leaving them, etc. (Think Jarhead) They have access to a gun, they're down and out. Friends are getting shot at a killed around them.

Did you know that the US military suffers higher casuality rates in peace time than in war? Training accidents happen often but they're not reported in the news.

Did you also know that in Russia, the Spetsnaz has an acceptable loss rate of 10% a year for training accidents? They are OK losing 10% of their forces a year from training.

 

[wanamingo]

I was talking to my neighbor about this over the weekend.

Consider many of the troops who are entering the military. Many of them don't have much going for them and joining the military is a last resort. Generally, you don't have access to a weapon easily unless deployed to war.

Think about how many people we have in the military and that are exposed to extreme conditions. Many of them are facing financial issues back home (housing market, parents having issues, etc) and many of them are also having maritial issues or girlfriends leaving them, etc. (Think Jarhead) They have access to a gun, they're down and out. Friends are getting shot at a killed around them.

I think you raise two very interesting points riser.

First off the war of the poor. They do pay very nicely in the military. I know you can generally make 50,000$ a year plus bonuses, and additional payment for other services. High risk soldiers can make a hundred thousand a year easy. Now just as an example.... Mitt Romneys kids will never have a need for money, only lower income individuals. We are composing an entire military out of "Poor" (I hate using this word but you see where im going) peoples. Maybe we should institute the draft because if congressmans kids get called to war they may be more apt to bring home the troops.

And the mental training it requires to go to war. Running jumping and shooting are a small part of killing. Maybe someone who has been through military training can answer what kind of mental preparation do they give you before, during, after combat?

 

[wanamingo]

Draft is a bad idea. Our military is the best not just because we train and equip the best but because it is voluntary. Forced service breeds mediocrity.

But so would service simply because you cant pay the bills.

 

[riser]

Our military is a volunteer system. Generally, yes, many poor people do go in but they also get education and learn a lot of discipline, something that is probably lacking in many households, rich and poor.

I'm the first generation of my family that did not do military service. My family has served in every military conflict since moving to the US (1904). I was going to enlist in the Air Force but my family asked me not to. They wanted me to go to college. The reason being that our family has paid the price of service and they want us to do better.

I didn't grow up rich. Technically, I grew up in poverty with divorced parents. To theorize is it a rich/poor thing is not technically true. We don't have the honor anymore; our military lacks the respect it so rightly deserves.

Look to the UK where the Princes serve. You don't see that here.. we lack the honor of traditional ways.

 

[Reynod]

Gropouce je ne pense pas que les gens sont vous insulter.

 

[dogman_1234]

I think the issue likes in many forms. One, we socially make it a necessary duty to join. Not joining makes you somewhat a loser. I do not see myself in the military. That does not mean I have no feelings for serving my country when the enemy lays a foot on our soil.

We tell our boys to 'get over it' when their buddy next to them has a hell bending experience with a bullet in the brain. We do not give critical mission debriefing,( what psychologists use to prevent ASD and PTSD,) instead; we send them home and later call them back fo the same thing all over again.

Read up on the Civil War. It was legal to pay a 'fine' for not serving and having a proxy solider in place of you. Those who could not pay, well...here is you gun son!

War is hell. I cannot imagine the torture to the human brain what war does that lets say: Assault, Murder, Death of a loved one, and Sub-traumatic dealings deal with.

Is it right for me to say that the Revolution was a war of patriots while the current wars...( yes we have many as of now,) are wars of pawns for all those in dealing with the globe?

 

[amuffin]

Someone PM recon-uk to share his experiences. From what he has told me, he has had a very "interesting" if you will, life.