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Bootable USB HDD

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Anonymous
July 30, 2004 11:00:32 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

I am posting my experience in making an external USB HDD bootable as an aide
to others who may be having the same problem. My OS is WINXP Pro formatted
NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.

I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which is housed an IBM DJSA 230
2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a year to store backups
and the like. I used the system on both my desktop (USB 2.0) and laptop
(firewire).

I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a motherboard that allows booting
from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external enclosure bootable and ran
into complications.

Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS onto the external HDD
(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed the boot order in the
desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process hung, although the
external drive was recognised. I then booted to DOS via a floppy and
repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single primary partition. fdisk
identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have two SATA drives on my
desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded the OS (Sys c:)  from my
bootable floppy. So far so good.

I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk and found that I couldn't
as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made active and the external
drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP to make the drive active
there (Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer Management). I changed the boot
order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot. The system again hung
during the bootup as before.

For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be a MBR problem so I tried
to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately before I tried that I
read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on the first drive in the
system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in my case drive 3) I either
had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which would make the external
drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk. By searching Google I
found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost, will allow rewriting mbr
on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be available as freeware but
not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an old copy of the gdisk
freeware version from a site by searching using Google. I recreated mbr
(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the external drive without
problems.

I believe my experience only relates to previously used HDD. If a new drive
is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created however when an old drive is
repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why the mbr was the source
of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that level of knowledge, but
my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to make a previously used
HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating the drive mbr will be
required.

Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look up as many references as I
could find on what was entailed to make an external usb drive bootable and
all my references suggested using fdisk, which for me gave problems, and
none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be required.

Hope this may be of assistance to others.

More about : bootable usb hdd

Anonymous
July 30, 2004 11:00:33 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports External USB Storage
Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset, you can boot from
external USB Storage devices without any extra effort. Most of this is
trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if your motherboard
doesn't support this.

----
Nathan McNulty


Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> I am posting my experience in making an external USB HDD bootable as an aide
> to others who may be having the same problem. My OS is WINXP Pro formatted
> NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.
>
> I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which is housed an IBM DJSA 230
> 2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a year to store backups
> and the like. I used the system on both my desktop (USB 2.0) and laptop
> (firewire).
>
> I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a motherboard that allows booting
> from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external enclosure bootable and ran
> into complications.
>
> Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS onto the external HDD
> (FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed the boot order in the
> desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process hung, although the
> external drive was recognised. I then booted to DOS via a floppy and
> repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single primary partition. fdisk
> identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have two SATA drives on my
> desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded the OS (Sys c:)  from my
> bootable floppy. So far so good.
>
> I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk and found that I couldn't
> as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made active and the external
> drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP to make the drive active
> there (Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer Management). I changed the boot
> order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot. The system again hung
> during the bootup as before.
>
> For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be a MBR problem so I tried
> to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately before I tried that I
> read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on the first drive in the
> system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in my case drive 3) I either
> had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which would make the external
> drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk. By searching Google I
> found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost, will allow rewriting mbr
> on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be available as freeware but
> not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an old copy of the gdisk
> freeware version from a site by searching using Google. I recreated mbr
> (gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the external drive without
> problems.
>
> I believe my experience only relates to previously used HDD. If a new drive
> is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created however when an old drive is
> repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why the mbr was the source
> of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that level of knowledge, but
> my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to make a previously used
> HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating the drive mbr will be
> required.
>
> Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look up as many references as I
> could find on what was entailed to make an external usb drive bootable and
> all my references suggested using fdisk, which for me gave problems, and
> none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be required.
>
> Hope this may be of assistance to others.
>
>
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 5:32:35 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear that my new
motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.

Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others, who like me, may not
know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need, at least in my case,
to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously partitioned.

While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work around' if the BIOS
does not support booting from the HDD.

My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.

Don't you take the time to read what is written, however imperfectly,
before you jump in?


"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
news:eOamKtgdEHA.1692@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports External USB Storage
> Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset, you can boot from
> external USB Storage devices without any extra effort. Most of this is
> trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if your motherboard
> doesn't support this.
>
> ----
> Nathan McNulty
>
>
> Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> > I am posting my experience in making an external USB HDD bootable as an
aide
> > to others who may be having the same problem. My OS is WINXP Pro
formatted
> > NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.
> >
> > I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which is housed an IBM DJSA
230
> > 2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a year to store
backups
> > and the like. I used the system on both my desktop (USB 2.0) and laptop
> > (firewire).
> >
> > I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a motherboard that allows
booting
> > from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external enclosure bootable and
ran
> > into complications.
> >
> > Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS onto the external
HDD
> > (FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed the boot order in the
> > desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process hung, although the
> > external drive was recognised. I then booted to DOS via a floppy and
> > repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single primary partition.
fdisk
> > identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have two SATA drives on my
> > desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded the OS (Sys c:)  from my
> > bootable floppy. So far so good.
> >
> > I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk and found that I
couldn't
> > as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made active and the
external
> > drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP to make the drive
active
> > there (Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer Management). I changed the
boot
> > order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot. The system again hung
> > during the bootup as before.
> >
> > For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be a MBR problem so I
tried
> > to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately before I tried that I
> > read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on the first drive in the
> > system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in my case drive 3) I
either
> > had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which would make the
external
> > drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk. By searching Google I
> > found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost, will allow rewriting
mbr
> > on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be available as freeware
but
> > not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an old copy of the
gdisk
> > freeware version from a site by searching using Google. I recreated mbr
> > (gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the external drive without
> > problems.
> >
> > I believe my experience only relates to previously used HDD. If a new
drive
> > is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created however when an old drive
is
> > repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why the mbr was the
source
> > of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that level of knowledge,
but
> > my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to make a previously
used
> > HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating the drive mbr will
be
> > required.
> >
> > Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look up as many references
as I
> > could find on what was entailed to make an external usb drive bootable
and
> > all my references suggested using fdisk, which for me gave problems, and
> > none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be required.
> >
> > Hope this may be of assistance to others.
> >
> >
Related resources
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 5:32:36 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Edward W. Thompson" <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ulNdXFjdEHA.1644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear that my new
> motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.
>
> Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others, who like me, may
not
> know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need, at least in my
case,
> to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously partitioned.
>
> While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work around' if the
BIOS
> does not support booting from the HDD.
>
> My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.
>
> Don't you take the time to read what is written, however imperfectly,
> before you jump in?
>
>
> "Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:eOamKtgdEHA.1692@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports External USB Storage
> > Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset, you can boot from
> > external USB Storage devices without any extra effort. Most of this is
> > trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if your motherboard
> > doesn't support this.
> >
> > ----
> > Nathan McNulty
> >
> >
> > Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> > > I am posting my experience in making an external USB HDD bootable as
an
> aide
> > > to others who may be having the same problem. My OS is WINXP Pro
> formatted
> > > NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.
> > >
> > > I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which is housed an IBM
DJSA
> 230
> > > 2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a year to store
> backups
> > > and the like. I used the system on both my desktop (USB 2.0) and
laptop
> > > (firewire).
> > >
> > > I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a motherboard that allows
> booting
> > > from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external enclosure bootable
and
> ran
> > > into complications.
> > >
> > > Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS onto the external
> HDD
> > > (FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed the boot order in the
> > > desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process hung, although the
> > > external drive was recognised. I then booted to DOS via a floppy and
> > > repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single primary partition.
> fdisk
> > > identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have two SATA drives on my
> > > desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded the OS (Sys c:)  from
my
> > > bootable floppy. So far so good.
> > >
> > > I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk and found that I
> couldn't
> > > as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made active and the
> external
> > > drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP to make the drive
> active
> > > there (Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer Management). I changed
the
> boot
> > > order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot. The system again
hung
> > > during the bootup as before.
> > >
> > > For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be a MBR problem so I
> tried
> > > to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately before I tried that
I
> > > read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on the first drive in
the
> > > system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in my case drive 3) I
> either
> > > had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which would make the
> external
> > > drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk. By searching Google
I
> > > found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost, will allow rewriting
> mbr
> > > on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be available as freeware
> but
> > > not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an old copy of the
> gdisk
> > > freeware version from a site by searching using Google. I recreated
mbr
> > > (gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the external drive
without
> > > problems.
> > >
> > > I believe my experience only relates to previously used HDD. If a new
> drive
> > > is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created however when an old
drive
> is
> > > repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why the mbr was the
> source
> > > of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that level of knowledge,
> but
> > > my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to make a previously
> used
> > > HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating the drive mbr will
> be
> > > required.
> > >
> > > Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look up as many
references
> as I
> > > could find on what was entailed to make an external usb drive bootable
> and
> > > all my references suggested using fdisk, which for me gave problems,
and
> > > none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be required.
> > >
> > > Hope this may be of assistance to others.

Ed:
Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge you cannot boot from
a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I don't come across
postings in various newsgroups as well as information on various web sites
that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard drive as long as your
motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to that effect. I've
worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of which contain a BIOS
element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to boot to a USB
external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating system. And I have yet
to come across a *documented* source indicating this capability is actually
achievable.

The following is from Western FAQs:
Question: Can I boot my computer using an external (FireWire, USB, Combo)
hard drive?

Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical support for booting your
computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers who design PC
system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it is not currently
possible to boot your computer with an external hard drive.


I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue and here's their
response:
"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical Support.


You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB drive that you have
cloned to using Norton Ghost.



The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be recognized in the boot
sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge, there is no
motherboard that supports booting from external devices currently. This
really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."



In addition, I raised the question with two local computer technicians in
our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives are not bootable.



Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my internal hard drives to
USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises, clone the external
drive back to the fixed internal one and under those circumstances the
internal drive will be bootable.



If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard drive or witnessed
such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.



Art
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 5:32:37 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

>-----Original Message-----
>"Edward W. Thompson" <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in
message
>news:ulNdXFjdEHA.1644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear
that my new
>> motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.
>>
>> Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others,
who like me, may
>not
>> know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need,
at least in my
>case,
>> to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously
partitioned.
>>
>> While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work
around' if the
>BIOS
>> does not support booting from the HDD.
>>
>> My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.
>>
>> Don't you take the time to read what is written,
however imperfectly,
>> before you jump in?
>>
>>
>> "Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
>> news:eOamKtgdEHA.1692@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> > Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports
External USB Storage
>> > Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset,
you can boot from
>> > external USB Storage devices without any extra
effort. Most of this is
>> > trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if
your motherboard
>> > doesn't support this.
>> >
>> > ----
>> > Nathan McNulty
>> >
>> >
>> > Edward W. Thompson wrote:
>> > > I am posting my experience in making an external
USB HDD bootable as
>an
>> aide
>> > > to others who may be having the same problem. My OS
is WINXP Pro
>> formatted
>> > > NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.
>> > >
>> > > I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which
is housed an IBM
>DJSA
>> 230
>> > > 2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a
year to store
>> backups
>> > > and the like. I used the system on both my desktop
(USB 2.0) and
>laptop
>> > > (firewire).
>> > >
>> > > I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a
motherboard that allows
>> booting
>> > > from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external
enclosure bootable
>and
>> ran
>> > > into complications.
>> > >
>> > > Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS
onto the external
>> HDD
>> > > (FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed
the boot order in the
>> > > desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process
hung, although the
>> > > external drive was recognised. I then booted to
DOS via a floppy and
>> > > repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single
primary partition.
>> fdisk
>> > > identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have
two SATA drives on my
>> > > desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded
the OS (Sys c:)  from
>my
>> > > bootable floppy. So far so good.
>> > >
>> > > I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk
and found that I
>> couldn't
>> > > as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made
active and the
>> external
>> > > drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP
to make the drive
>> active
>> > > there (Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer
Management). I changed
>the
>> boot
>> > > order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot.
The system again
>hung
>> > > during the bootup as before.
>> > >
>> > > For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be
a MBR problem so I
>> tried
>> > > to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately
before I tried that
>I
>> > > read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on
the first drive in
>the
>> > > system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in
my case drive 3) I
>> either
>> > > had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which
would make the
>> external
>> > > drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk.
By searching Google
>I
>> > > found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost,
will allow rewriting
>> mbr
>> > > on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be
available as freeware
>> but
>> > > not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an
old copy of the
>> gdisk
>> > > freeware version from a site by searching using
Google. I recreated
>mbr
>> > > (gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the
external drive
>without
>> > > problems.
>> > >
>> > > I believe my experience only relates to previously
used HDD. If a new
>> drive
>> > > is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created
however when an old
>drive
>> is
>> > > repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why
the mbr was the
>> source
>> > > of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that
level of knowledge,
>> but
>> > > my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to
make a previously
>> used
>> > > HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating
the drive mbr will
>> be
>> > > required.
>> > >
>> > > Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look
up as many
>references
>> as I
>> > > could find on what was entailed to make an external
usb drive bootable
>> and
>> > > all my references suggested using fdisk, which for
me gave problems,
>and
>> > > none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be
required.
>> > >
>> > > Hope this may be of assistance to others.
>
>Ed:
>Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge
you cannot boot from
>a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I
don't come across
>postings in various newsgroups as well as information on
various web sites
>that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard
drive as long as your
>motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to
that effect. I've
>worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of
which contain a BIOS
>element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to
boot to a USB
>external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating
system. And I have yet
>to come across a *documented* source indicating this
capability is actually
>achievable.
>
>The following is from Western FAQs:
>Question: Can I boot my computer using an external
(FireWire, USB, Combo)
>hard drive?
>
>Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical
support for booting your
>computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers
who design PC
>system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it
is not currently
>possible to boot your computer with an external hard
drive.
>
>
>I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue
and here's their
>response:
>"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical
Support.
>
>
>You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB
drive that you have
>cloned to using Norton Ghost.
>
>
>
>The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be
recognized in the boot
>sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge,
there is no
>motherboard that supports booting from external devices
currently. This
>really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."
>
>
>
>In addition, I raised the question with two local
computer technicians in
>our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives
are not bootable.
>
>
>
>Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my
internal hard drives to
>USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises,
clone the external
>drive back to the fixed internal one and under those
circumstances the
>internal drive will be bootable.
>
>
>
>If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard
drive or witnessed
>such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.
>
>
>
>Art
>

The OP stated quite succinctly, "The machine now boots from
the external drive without problems." Do you think he's
lying?
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 5:32:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

LOL, I never attacked the OP, nor did I mean to offend anyone. I was
just adding a little side note. Yes, booting off USB devices is simple
if your BIOS supports it. I don't even need a floppy drive since my
computer can boot off my USB Flash Drive. You simply have to have a
BIOS that supports this and set it up correctly. And just to note,
there are almost always workarounds. If you needed to boot off a USB
Harddrive and your BIOS does not support it, you use a floppy to load
the proper drivers and boot off that harddrive (which could all be
automated).

Again, to the OP, it was not my intention to offend you, but to expound
a little bit and offer examples.

----
Nathan McNulty


Wislu Plethora wrote:
>>-----Original Message-----
>>"Edward W. Thompson" <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in
>
> message
>
>>news:ulNdXFjdEHA.1644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear
>
> that my new
>
>>>motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.
>>>
>>> Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others,
>
> who like me, may
>
>>not
>>
>>>know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need,
>
> at least in my
>
>>case,
>>
>>>to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously
>
> partitioned.
>
>>>While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work
>
> around' if the
>
>>BIOS
>>
>>>does not support booting from the HDD.
>>>
>>>My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.
>>>
>>>Don't you take the time to read what is written,
>
> however imperfectly,
>
>>>before you jump in?
>>>
>>>
>>>"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>news:eOamKtgdEHA.1692@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>>Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports
>
> External USB Storage
>
>>>>Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset,
>
> you can boot from
>
>>>>external USB Storage devices without any extra
>
> effort. Most of this is
>
>>>>trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if
>
> your motherboard
>
>>>>doesn't support this.
>>>>
>>>>----
>>>>Nathan McNulty
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Edward W. Thompson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I am posting my experience in making an external
>
> USB HDD bootable as
>
>>an
>>
>>>aide
>>>
>>>>>to others who may be having the same problem. My OS
>
> is WINXP Pro
>
>>>formatted
>>>
>>>>>NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which
>
> is housed an IBM
>
>>DJSA
>>
>>>230
>>>
>>>>>2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a
>
> year to store
>
>>>backups
>>>
>>>>>and the like. I used the system on both my desktop
>
> (USB 2.0) and
>
>>laptop
>>
>>>>>(firewire).
>>>>>
>>>>>I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a
>
> motherboard that allows
>
>>>booting
>>>
>>>>>from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external
>
> enclosure bootable
>
>>and
>>
>>>ran
>>>
>>>>>into complications.
>>>>>
>>>>>Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS
>
> onto the external
>
>>>HDD
>>>
>>>>>(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed
>
> the boot order in the
>
>>>>>desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process
>
> hung, although the
>
>>>>>external drive was recognised. I then booted to
>
> DOS via a floppy and
>
>>>>>repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single
>
> primary partition.
>
>>>fdisk
>>>
>>>>>identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have
>
> two SATA drives on my
>
>>>>>desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded
>
> the OS (Sys c:)  from
>
>>my
>>
>>>>>bootable floppy. So far so good.
>>>>>
>>>>>I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk
>
> and found that I
>
>>>couldn't
>>>
>>>>>as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made
>
> active and the
>
>>>external
>>>
>>>>>drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP
>
> to make the drive
>
>>>active
>>>
>>>>>there (Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer
>
> Management). I changed
>
>>the
>>
>>>boot
>>>
>>>>>order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot.
>
> The system again
>
>>hung
>>
>>>>>during the bootup as before.
>>>>>
>>>>>For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be
>
> a MBR problem so I
>
>>>tried
>>>
>>>>>to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately
>
> before I tried that
>
>>I
>>
>>>>>read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on
>
> the first drive in
>
>>the
>>
>>>>>system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in
>
> my case drive 3) I
>
>>>either
>>>
>>>>>had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which
>
> would make the
>
>>>external
>>>
>>>>>drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk.
>
> By searching Google
>
>>I
>>
>>>>>found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost,
>
> will allow rewriting
>
>>>mbr
>>>
>>>>>on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be
>
> available as freeware
>
>>>but
>>>
>>>>>not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an
>
> old copy of the
>
>>>gdisk
>>>
>>>>>freeware version from a site by searching using
>
> Google. I recreated
>
>>mbr
>>
>>>>>(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the
>
> external drive
>
>>without
>>
>>>>>problems.
>>>>>
>>>>>I believe my experience only relates to previously
>
> used HDD. If a new
>
>>>drive
>>>
>>>>>is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created
>
> however when an old
>
>>drive
>>
>>>is
>>>
>>>>>repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why
>
> the mbr was the
>
>>>source
>>>
>>>>>of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that
>
> level of knowledge,
>
>>>but
>>>
>>>>>my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to
>
> make a previously
>
>>>used
>>>
>>>>>HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating
>
> the drive mbr will
>
>>>be
>>>
>>>>>required.
>>>>>
>>>>>Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look
>
> up as many
>
>>references
>>
>>>as I
>>>
>>>>>could find on what was entailed to make an external
>
> usb drive bootable
>
>>>and
>>>
>>>>>all my references suggested using fdisk, which for
>
> me gave problems,
>
>>and
>>
>>>>>none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be
>
> required.
>
>>>>>Hope this may be of assistance to others.
>>
>>Ed:
>>Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge
>
> you cannot boot from
>
>>a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I
>
> don't come across
>
>>postings in various newsgroups as well as information on
>
> various web sites
>
>>that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard
>
> drive as long as your
>
>>motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to
>
> that effect. I've
>
>>worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of
>
> which contain a BIOS
>
>>element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to
>
> boot to a USB
>
>>external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating
>
> system. And I have yet
>
>>to come across a *documented* source indicating this
>
> capability is actually
>
>>achievable.
>>
>>The following is from Western FAQs:
>>Question: Can I boot my computer using an external
>
> (FireWire, USB, Combo)
>
>>hard drive?
>>
>>Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical
>
> support for booting your
>
>>computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers
>
> who design PC
>
>>system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it
>
> is not currently
>
>>possible to boot your computer with an external hard
>
> drive.
>
>>
>>I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue
>
> and here's their
>
>>response:
>>"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical
>
> Support.
>
>>
>>You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB
>
> drive that you have
>
>>cloned to using Norton Ghost.
>>
>>
>>
>>The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be
>
> recognized in the boot
>
>>sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge,
>
> there is no
>
>>motherboard that supports booting from external devices
>
> currently. This
>
>>really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."
>>
>>
>>
>>In addition, I raised the question with two local
>
> computer technicians in
>
>>our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives
>
> are not bootable.
>
>>
>>
>>Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my
>
> internal hard drives to
>
>>USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises,
>
> clone the external
>
>>drive back to the fixed internal one and under those
>
> circumstances the
>
>>internal drive will be bootable.
>>
>>
>>
>>If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard
>
> drive or witnessed
>
>>such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.
>>
>>
>>
>>Art
>>
>
>
> The OP stated quite succinctly, "The machine now boots from
> the external drive without problems." Do you think he's
> lying?
>
Anonymous
July 31, 2004 11:55:28 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

You've certainly confused me now. What do you mean re your work around?
Load USB drivers from a floppy to a Hard drive, then boot the system from an
external USB Drive, unless I am missing something pretty fundemental here I
don't think so. The machine will not recognise the USB drivers you load
until the machine is booted up using the OS on the hard drive . This is not
the same as booting directly from a USB HDD when the machine reads the OS
from the USB HDD. Surely one of the most significant reasons to boot from a
USB HDD is to give an alternative means to start a machine in the event of a
failure of the fixed HDD system.

With regards to the rest of your post, I think I am justified to say I was
offended. I posted in good faith to give information to those who may be
trying to boot from an external USB drive. I had some problems that I
worked through and thought my experience may save others the same trouble I
had. Your post did nothing but implied I have mad it all up and that you
cannot boot directly from and external USB HDD. As far as I know, from my
searches of Google, there is not similar info available re problems of using
fdisk and recreating the mbr.

I really wonder what you do when you really set out to offend :-).



"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
news:uMhvqdmdEHA.4048@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> LOL, I never attacked the OP, nor did I mean to offend anyone. I was
> just adding a little side note. Yes, booting off USB devices is simple
> if your BIOS supports it. I don't even need a floppy drive since my
> computer can boot off my USB Flash Drive. You simply have to have a
> BIOS that supports this and set it up correctly. And just to note,
> there are almost always workarounds. If you needed to boot off a USB
> Harddrive and your BIOS does not support it, you use a floppy to load
> the proper drivers and boot off that harddrive (which could all be
> automated).
>
> Again, to the OP, it was not my intention to offend you, but to expound
> a little bit and offer examples.
>
> ----
> Nathan McNulty
>
>
> Wislu Plethora wrote:
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>"Edward W. Thompson" <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in
> >
> > message
> >
> >>news:ulNdXFjdEHA.1644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >>
> >>>Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear
> >
> > that my new
> >
> >>>motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.
> >>>
> >>> Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others,
> >
> > who like me, may
> >
> >>not
> >>
> >>>know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need,
> >
> > at least in my
> >
> >>case,
> >>
> >>>to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously
> >
> > partitioned.
> >
> >>>While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work
> >
> > around' if the
> >
> >>BIOS
> >>
> >>>does not support booting from the HDD.
> >>>
> >>>My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.
> >>>
> >>>Don't you take the time to read what is written,
> >
> > however imperfectly,
> >
> >>>before you jump in?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:eOamKtgdEHA.1692@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >>>
> >>>>Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports
> >
> > External USB Storage
> >
> >>>>Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset,
> >
> > you can boot from
> >
> >>>>external USB Storage devices without any extra
> >
> > effort. Most of this is
> >
> >>>>trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if
> >
> > your motherboard
> >
> >>>>doesn't support this.
> >>>>
> >>>>----
> >>>>Nathan McNulty
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>I am posting my experience in making an external
> >
> > USB HDD bootable as
> >
> >>an
> >>
> >>>aide
> >>>
> >>>>>to others who may be having the same problem. My OS
> >
> > is WINXP Pro
> >
> >>>formatted
> >>>
> >>>>>NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which
> >
> > is housed an IBM
> >
> >>DJSA
> >>
> >>>230
> >>>
> >>>>>2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a
> >
> > year to store
> >
> >>>backups
> >>>
> >>>>>and the like. I used the system on both my desktop
> >
> > (USB 2.0) and
> >
> >>laptop
> >>
> >>>>>(firewire).
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a
> >
> > motherboard that allows
> >
> >>>booting
> >>>
> >>>>>from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external
> >
> > enclosure bootable
> >
> >>and
> >>
> >>>ran
> >>>
> >>>>>into complications.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS
> >
> > onto the external
> >
> >>>HDD
> >>>
> >>>>>(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed
> >
> > the boot order in the
> >
> >>>>>desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process
> >
> > hung, although the
> >
> >>>>>external drive was recognised. I then booted to
> >
> > DOS via a floppy and
> >
> >>>>>repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single
> >
> > primary partition.
> >
> >>>fdisk
> >>>
> >>>>>identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have
> >
> > two SATA drives on my
> >
> >>>>>desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded
> >
> > the OS (Sys c:)  from
> >
> >>my
> >>
> >>>>>bootable floppy. So far so good.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk
> >
> > and found that I
> >
> >>>couldn't
> >>>
> >>>>>as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made
> >
> > active and the
> >
> >>>external
> >>>
> >>>>>drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP
> >
> > to make the drive
> >
> >>>active
> >>>
> >>>>>there (Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer
> >
> > Management). I changed
> >
> >>the
> >>
> >>>boot
> >>>
> >>>>>order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot.
> >
> > The system again
> >
> >>hung
> >>
> >>>>>during the bootup as before.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be
> >
> > a MBR problem so I
> >
> >>>tried
> >>>
> >>>>>to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately
> >
> > before I tried that
> >
> >>I
> >>
> >>>>>read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on
> >
> > the first drive in
> >
> >>the
> >>
> >>>>>system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in
> >
> > my case drive 3) I
> >
> >>>either
> >>>
> >>>>>had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which
> >
> > would make the
> >
> >>>external
> >>>
> >>>>>drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk.
> >
> > By searching Google
> >
> >>I
> >>
> >>>>>found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost,
> >
> > will allow rewriting
> >
> >>>mbr
> >>>
> >>>>>on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be
> >
> > available as freeware
> >
> >>>but
> >>>
> >>>>>not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an
> >
> > old copy of the
> >
> >>>gdisk
> >>>
> >>>>>freeware version from a site by searching using
> >
> > Google. I recreated
> >
> >>mbr
> >>
> >>>>>(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the
> >
> > external drive
> >
> >>without
> >>
> >>>>>problems.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I believe my experience only relates to previously
> >
> > used HDD. If a new
> >
> >>>drive
> >>>
> >>>>>is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created
> >
> > however when an old
> >
> >>drive
> >>
> >>>is
> >>>
> >>>>>repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why
> >
> > the mbr was the
> >
> >>>source
> >>>
> >>>>>of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that
> >
> > level of knowledge,
> >
> >>>but
> >>>
> >>>>>my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to
> >
> > make a previously
> >
> >>>used
> >>>
> >>>>>HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating
> >
> > the drive mbr will
> >
> >>>be
> >>>
> >>>>>required.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look
> >
> > up as many
> >
> >>references
> >>
> >>>as I
> >>>
> >>>>>could find on what was entailed to make an external
> >
> > usb drive bootable
> >
> >>>and
> >>>
> >>>>>all my references suggested using fdisk, which for
> >
> > me gave problems,
> >
> >>and
> >>
> >>>>>none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be
> >
> > required.
> >
> >>>>>Hope this may be of assistance to others.
> >>
> >>Ed:
> >>Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge
> >
> > you cannot boot from
> >
> >>a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I
> >
> > don't come across
> >
> >>postings in various newsgroups as well as information on
> >
> > various web sites
> >
> >>that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard
> >
> > drive as long as your
> >
> >>motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to
> >
> > that effect. I've
> >
> >>worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of
> >
> > which contain a BIOS
> >
> >>element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to
> >
> > boot to a USB
> >
> >>external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating
> >
> > system. And I have yet
> >
> >>to come across a *documented* source indicating this
> >
> > capability is actually
> >
> >>achievable.
> >>
> >>The following is from Western FAQs:
> >>Question: Can I boot my computer using an external
> >
> > (FireWire, USB, Combo)
> >
> >>hard drive?
> >>
> >>Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical
> >
> > support for booting your
> >
> >>computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers
> >
> > who design PC
> >
> >>system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it
> >
> > is not currently
> >
> >>possible to boot your computer with an external hard
> >
> > drive.
> >
> >>
> >>I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue
> >
> > and here's their
> >
> >>response:
> >>"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical
> >
> > Support.
> >
> >>
> >>You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB
> >
> > drive that you have
> >
> >>cloned to using Norton Ghost.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be
> >
> > recognized in the boot
> >
> >>sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge,
> >
> > there is no
> >
> >>motherboard that supports booting from external devices
> >
> > currently. This
> >
> >>really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>In addition, I raised the question with two local
> >
> > computer technicians in
> >
> >>our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives
> >
> > are not bootable.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my
> >
> > internal hard drives to
> >
> >>USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises,
> >
> > clone the external
> >
> >>drive back to the fixed internal one and under those
> >
> > circumstances the
> >
> >>internal drive will be bootable.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard
> >
> > drive or witnessed
> >
> >>such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Art
> >>
> >
> >
> > The OP stated quite succinctly, "The machine now boots from
> > the external drive without problems." Do you think he's
> > lying?
> >
Anonymous
July 31, 2004 11:55:29 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

I would like to hear you explain how I "implied you made it all up." I
did nothing but confirm exactly what you said. I only added that a BIOS
with the ability to boot from USB is required. I have tried to offer a
couple of examples that I use that can boot from USB (both chipsets and
my USB Flash Drive works).

Also, notice I never said anything about fdisk. The reason is because I
don't ever use fdisk as I feel it is outdated. I think it was great you
included that part and I never intended to attack that.

I can see you are simply going to see me as flaming you no matter what I
say, so just know that I never said anything that was meant to offend
you, but merely offer more information (as well as confirmation).

----
Nathan McNulty


Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> You've certainly confused me now. What do you mean re your work around?
> Load USB drivers from a floppy to a Hard drive, then boot the system from an
> external USB Drive, unless I am missing something pretty fundemental here I
> don't think so. The machine will not recognise the USB drivers you load
> until the machine is booted up using the OS on the hard drive . This is not
> the same as booting directly from a USB HDD when the machine reads the OS
> from the USB HDD. Surely one of the most significant reasons to boot from a
> USB HDD is to give an alternative means to start a machine in the event of a
> failure of the fixed HDD system.
>
> With regards to the rest of your post, I think I am justified to say I was
> offended. I posted in good faith to give information to those who may be
> trying to boot from an external USB drive. I had some problems that I
> worked through and thought my experience may save others the same trouble I
> had. Your post did nothing but implied I have mad it all up and that you
> cannot boot directly from and external USB HDD. As far as I know, from my
> searches of Google, there is not similar info available re problems of using
> fdisk and recreating the mbr.
>
> I really wonder what you do when you really set out to offend :-).
>
>
>
> "Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:uMhvqdmdEHA.4048@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>
>>LOL, I never attacked the OP, nor did I mean to offend anyone. I was
>>just adding a little side note. Yes, booting off USB devices is simple
>>if your BIOS supports it. I don't even need a floppy drive since my
>>computer can boot off my USB Flash Drive. You simply have to have a
>>BIOS that supports this and set it up correctly. And just to note,
>>there are almost always workarounds. If you needed to boot off a USB
>>Harddrive and your BIOS does not support it, you use a floppy to load
>>the proper drivers and boot off that harddrive (which could all be
>>automated).
>>
>>Again, to the OP, it was not my intention to offend you, but to expound
>>a little bit and offer examples.
>>
>>----
>>Nathan McNulty
>>
>>
>>Wislu Plethora wrote:
>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>"Edward W. Thompson" <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in
>>>
>>>message
>>>
>>>
>>>>news:ulNdXFjdEHA.1644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear
>>>
>>>that my new
>>>
>>>
>>>>>motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.
>>>>>
>>>>>Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others,
>>>
>>>who like me, may
>>>
>>>
>>>>not
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need,
>>>
>>>at least in my
>>>
>>>
>>>>case,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously
>>>
>>>partitioned.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work
>>>
>>>around' if the
>>>
>>>
>>>>BIOS
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>does not support booting from the HDD.
>>>>>
>>>>>My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.
>>>>>
>>>>>Don't you take the time to read what is written,
>>>
>>>however imperfectly,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>before you jump in?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:eOamKtgdEHA.1692@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports
>>>
>>>External USB Storage
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset,
>>>
>>>you can boot from
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>external USB Storage devices without any extra
>>>
>>>effort. Most of this is
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if
>>>
>>>your motherboard
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>doesn't support this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----
>>>>>>Nathan McNulty
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Edward W. Thompson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I am posting my experience in making an external
>>>
>>>USB HDD bootable as
>>>
>>>
>>>>an
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>aide
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>to others who may be having the same problem. My OS
>>>
>>>is WINXP Pro
>>>
>>>
>>>>>formatted
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which
>>>
>>>is housed an IBM
>>>
>>>
>>>>DJSA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>230
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a
>>>
>>>year to store
>>>
>>>
>>>>>backups
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>and the like. I used the system on both my desktop
>>>
>>>(USB 2.0) and
>>>
>>>
>>>>laptop
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>(firewire).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a
>>>
>>>motherboard that allows
>>>
>>>
>>>>>booting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external
>>>
>>>enclosure bootable
>>>
>>>
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>ran
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>into complications.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS
>>>
>>>onto the external
>>>
>>>
>>>>>HDD
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed
>>>
>>>the boot order in the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process
>>>
>>>hung, although the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>external drive was recognised. I then booted to
>>>
>>>DOS via a floppy and
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single
>>>
>>>primary partition.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>fdisk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have
>>>
>>>two SATA drives on my
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded
>>>
>>>the OS (Sys c:)  from
>>>
>>>
>>>>my
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>bootable floppy. So far so good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk
>>>
>>>and found that I
>>>
>>>
>>>>>couldn't
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made
>>>
>>>active and the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>external
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP
>>>
>>>to make the drive
>>>
>>>
>>>>>active
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>there (Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer
>>>
>>>Management). I changed
>>>
>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>boot
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot.
>>>
>>>The system again
>>>
>>>
>>>>hung
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>during the bootup as before.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be
>>>
>>>a MBR problem so I
>>>
>>>
>>>>>tried
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately
>>>
>>>before I tried that
>>>
>>>
>>>>I
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on
>>>
>>>the first drive in
>>>
>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in
>>>
>>>my case drive 3) I
>>>
>>>
>>>>>either
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which
>>>
>>>would make the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>external
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk.
>>>
>>>By searching Google
>>>
>>>
>>>>I
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost,
>>>
>>>will allow rewriting
>>>
>>>
>>>>>mbr
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be
>>>
>>>available as freeware
>>>
>>>
>>>>>but
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an
>>>
>>>old copy of the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>gdisk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>freeware version from a site by searching using
>>>
>>>Google. I recreated
>>>
>>>
>>>>mbr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the
>>>
>>>external drive
>>>
>>>
>>>>without
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I believe my experience only relates to previously
>>>
>>>used HDD. If a new
>>>
>>>
>>>>>drive
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created
>>>
>>>however when an old
>>>
>>>
>>>>drive
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why
>>>
>>>the mbr was the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>source
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that
>>>
>>>level of knowledge,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>but
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to
>>>
>>>make a previously
>>>
>>>
>>>>>used
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating
>>>
>>>the drive mbr will
>>>
>>>
>>>>>be
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>required.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look
>>>
>>>up as many
>>>
>>>
>>>>references
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>as I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>could find on what was entailed to make an external
>>>
>>>usb drive bootable
>>>
>>>
>>>>>and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>all my references suggested using fdisk, which for
>>>
>>>me gave problems,
>>>
>>>
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be
>>>
>>>required.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>Hope this may be of assistance to others.
>>>>
>>>>Ed:
>>>>Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge
>>>
>>>you cannot boot from
>>>
>>>
>>>>a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I
>>>
>>>don't come across
>>>
>>>
>>>>postings in various newsgroups as well as information on
>>>
>>>various web sites
>>>
>>>
>>>>that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard
>>>
>>>drive as long as your
>>>
>>>
>>>>motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to
>>>
>>>that effect. I've
>>>
>>>
>>>>worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of
>>>
>>>which contain a BIOS
>>>
>>>
>>>>element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to
>>>
>>>boot to a USB
>>>
>>>
>>>>external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating
>>>
>>>system. And I have yet
>>>
>>>
>>>>to come across a *documented* source indicating this
>>>
>>>capability is actually
>>>
>>>
>>>>achievable.
>>>>
>>>>The following is from Western FAQs:
>>>>Question: Can I boot my computer using an external
>>>
>>>(FireWire, USB, Combo)
>>>
>>>
>>>>hard drive?
>>>>
>>>>Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical
>>>
>>>support for booting your
>>>
>>>
>>>>computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers
>>>
>>>who design PC
>>>
>>>
>>>>system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it
>>>
>>>is not currently
>>>
>>>
>>>>possible to boot your computer with an external hard
>>>
>>>drive.
>>>
>>>
>>>>I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue
>>>
>>>and here's their
>>>
>>>
>>>>response:
>>>>"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical
>>>
>>>Support.
>>>
>>>
>>>>You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB
>>>
>>>drive that you have
>>>
>>>
>>>>cloned to using Norton Ghost.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be
>>>
>>>recognized in the boot
>>>
>>>
>>>>sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge,
>>>
>>>there is no
>>>
>>>
>>>>motherboard that supports booting from external devices
>>>
>>>currently. This
>>>
>>>
>>>>really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>In addition, I raised the question with two local
>>>
>>>computer technicians in
>>>
>>>
>>>>our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives
>>>
>>>are not bootable.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my
>>>
>>>internal hard drives to
>>>
>>>
>>>>USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises,
>>>
>>>clone the external
>>>
>>>
>>>>drive back to the fixed internal one and under those
>>>
>>>circumstances the
>>>
>>>
>>>>internal drive will be bootable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard
>>>
>>>drive or witnessed
>>>
>>>
>>>>such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Art
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The OP stated quite succinctly, "The machine now boots from
>>>the external drive without problems." Do you think he's
>>>lying?
>>>
>
>
>
Anonymous
July 31, 2004 3:04:03 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Please reread your original post as a response to mkine. I think you may
then understand why I and another thought you were accusing me of lying (in
the other respondents words).

As far as I am concerned this matter is closed.

It is to no ones advantage to prolong this and I accept your assurance you
did not intend to offend.

Moving to your more recent posting that suggested, at least this is how read
it, that notwithstanding the lack of a BIOS that allows direct booting from
a USB HDD there is a work around so you can boot directly from a USB HDD;
would you kindly explain further how this is done? As far as I know you
cannot load drivers before the machine boots, so how does the machine
recognise a USB drive during the boot process if there are no drivers?
Further, how do you select, in the BIOS, to boot from the USB Drive if the
BIOS does not allow this?


"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
news:o XXPnzsdEHA.228@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> I would like to hear you explain how I "implied you made it all up." I
> did nothing but confirm exactly what you said. I only added that a BIOS
> with the ability to boot from USB is required. I have tried to offer a
> couple of examples that I use that can boot from USB (both chipsets and
> my USB Flash Drive works).
>
> Also, notice I never said anything about fdisk. The reason is because I
> don't ever use fdisk as I feel it is outdated. I think it was great you
> included that part and I never intended to attack that.
>
> I can see you are simply going to see me as flaming you no matter what I
> say, so just know that I never said anything that was meant to offend
> you, but merely offer more information (as well as confirmation).
>
> ----
> Nathan McNulty
>
>
> Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> > You've certainly confused me now. What do you mean re your work around?
> > Load USB drivers from a floppy to a Hard drive, then boot the system
from an
> > external USB Drive, unless I am missing something pretty fundemental
here I
> > don't think so. The machine will not recognise the USB drivers you load
> > until the machine is booted up using the OS on the hard drive . This is
not
> > the same as booting directly from a USB HDD when the machine reads the
OS
> > from the USB HDD. Surely one of the most significant reasons to boot
from a
> > USB HDD is to give an alternative means to start a machine in the event
of a
> > failure of the fixed HDD system.
> >
> > With regards to the rest of your post, I think I am justified to say I
was
> > offended. I posted in good faith to give information to those who may
be
> > trying to boot from an external USB drive. I had some problems that I
> > worked through and thought my experience may save others the same
trouble I
> > had. Your post did nothing but implied I have mad it all up and that
you
> > cannot boot directly from and external USB HDD. As far as I know, from
my
> > searches of Google, there is not similar info available re problems of
using
> > fdisk and recreating the mbr.
> >
> > I really wonder what you do when you really set out to offend :-).
> >
> >
> >
> > "Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
> > news:uMhvqdmdEHA.4048@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> >
> >>LOL, I never attacked the OP, nor did I mean to offend anyone. I was
> >>just adding a little side note. Yes, booting off USB devices is simple
> >>if your BIOS supports it. I don't even need a floppy drive since my
> >>computer can boot off my USB Flash Drive. You simply have to have a
> >>BIOS that supports this and set it up correctly. And just to note,
> >>there are almost always workarounds. If you needed to boot off a USB
> >>Harddrive and your BIOS does not support it, you use a floppy to load
> >>the proper drivers and boot off that harddrive (which could all be
> >>automated).
> >>
> >>Again, to the OP, it was not my intention to offend you, but to expound
> >>a little bit and offer examples.
> >>
> >>----
> >>Nathan McNulty
> >>
> >>
> >>Wislu Plethora wrote:
> >>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>"Edward W. Thompson" <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in
> >>>
> >>>message
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>news:ulNdXFjdEHA.1644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear
> >>>
> >>>that my new
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others,
> >>>
> >>>who like me, may
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>not
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need,
> >>>
> >>>at least in my
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>case,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously
> >>>
> >>>partitioned.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work
> >>>
> >>>around' if the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>BIOS
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>does not support booting from the HDD.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Don't you take the time to read what is written,
> >>>
> >>>however imperfectly,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>before you jump in?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:eOamKtgdEHA.1692@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports
> >>>
> >>>External USB Storage
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset,
> >>>
> >>>you can boot from
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>external USB Storage devices without any extra
> >>>
> >>>effort. Most of this is
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if
> >>>
> >>>your motherboard
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>doesn't support this.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>----
> >>>>>>Nathan McNulty
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I am posting my experience in making an external
> >>>
> >>>USB HDD bootable as
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>an
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>aide
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>to others who may be having the same problem. My OS
> >>>
> >>>is WINXP Pro
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>formatted
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which
> >>>
> >>>is housed an IBM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>DJSA
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>230
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a
> >>>
> >>>year to store
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>backups
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>and the like. I used the system on both my desktop
> >>>
> >>>(USB 2.0) and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>laptop
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>(firewire).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a
> >>>
> >>>motherboard that allows
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>booting
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external
> >>>
> >>>enclosure bootable
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>and
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>ran
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>into complications.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS
> >>>
> >>>onto the external
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>HDD
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed
> >>>
> >>>the boot order in the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process
> >>>
> >>>hung, although the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>external drive was recognised. I then booted to
> >>>
> >>>DOS via a floppy and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single
> >>>
> >>>primary partition.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>fdisk
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have
> >>>
> >>>two SATA drives on my
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded
> >>>
> >>>the OS (Sys c:)  from
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>my
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>bootable floppy. So far so good.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk
> >>>
> >>>and found that I
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>couldn't
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made
> >>>
> >>>active and the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP
> >>>
> >>>to make the drive
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>active
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>there (Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer
> >>>
> >>>Management). I changed
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>boot
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot.
> >>>
> >>>The system again
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>hung
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>during the bootup as before.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be
> >>>
> >>>a MBR problem so I
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>tried
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately
> >>>
> >>>before I tried that
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on
> >>>
> >>>the first drive in
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in
> >>>
> >>>my case drive 3) I
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>either
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which
> >>>
> >>>would make the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk.
> >>>
> >>>By searching Google
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost,
> >>>
> >>>will allow rewriting
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>mbr
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be
> >>>
> >>>available as freeware
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>but
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an
> >>>
> >>>old copy of the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>gdisk
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>freeware version from a site by searching using
> >>>
> >>>Google. I recreated
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>mbr
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the
> >>>
> >>>external drive
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>without
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>problems.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I believe my experience only relates to previously
> >>>
> >>>used HDD. If a new
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>drive
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created
> >>>
> >>>however when an old
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>drive
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>is
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why
> >>>
> >>>the mbr was the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>source
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that
> >>>
> >>>level of knowledge,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>but
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to
> >>>
> >>>make a previously
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>used
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating
> >>>
> >>>the drive mbr will
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>be
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>required.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look
> >>>
> >>>up as many
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>references
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>as I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>could find on what was entailed to make an external
> >>>
> >>>usb drive bootable
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>and
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>all my references suggested using fdisk, which for
> >>>
> >>>me gave problems,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>and
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be
> >>>
> >>>required.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>Hope this may be of assistance to others.
> >>>>
> >>>>Ed:
> >>>>Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge
> >>>
> >>>you cannot boot from
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I
> >>>
> >>>don't come across
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>postings in various newsgroups as well as information on
> >>>
> >>>various web sites
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard
> >>>
> >>>drive as long as your
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to
> >>>
> >>>that effect. I've
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of
> >>>
> >>>which contain a BIOS
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to
> >>>
> >>>boot to a USB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating
> >>>
> >>>system. And I have yet
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>to come across a *documented* source indicating this
> >>>
> >>>capability is actually
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>achievable.
> >>>>
> >>>>The following is from Western FAQs:
> >>>>Question: Can I boot my computer using an external
> >>>
> >>>(FireWire, USB, Combo)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>hard drive?
> >>>>
> >>>>Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical
> >>>
> >>>support for booting your
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers
> >>>
> >>>who design PC
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it
> >>>
> >>>is not currently
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>possible to boot your computer with an external hard
> >>>
> >>>drive.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue
> >>>
> >>>and here's their
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>response:
> >>>>"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical
> >>>
> >>>Support.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB
> >>>
> >>>drive that you have
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>cloned to using Norton Ghost.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be
> >>>
> >>>recognized in the boot
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge,
> >>>
> >>>there is no
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>motherboard that supports booting from external devices
> >>>
> >>>currently. This
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>In addition, I raised the question with two local
> >>>
> >>>computer technicians in
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives
> >>>
> >>>are not bootable.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my
> >>>
> >>>internal hard drives to
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises,
> >>>
> >>>clone the external
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>drive back to the fixed internal one and under those
> >>>
> >>>circumstances the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>internal drive will be bootable.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard
> >>>
> >>>drive or witnessed
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Art
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The OP stated quite succinctly, "The machine now boots from
> >>>the external drive without problems." Do you think he's
> >>>lying?
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
Anonymous
July 31, 2004 3:08:46 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

I was suggesting it possible to boot off a floppy that loads the drivers
for the external drive and then loads the OS off that external hard
drive. There would be no way to directly boot off an external harddrive
if the BIOS does not support it. I have not even tested loading the
external drive's drivers and booting off it by booting off a floppy at
startup. I have a feeling that I was just too tired and unclear in my
posts.

----
Nathan McNulty

Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> Please reread your original post as a response to mkine. I think you may
> then understand why I and another thought you were accusing me of lying (in
> the other respondents words).
>
> As far as I am concerned this matter is closed.
>
> It is to no ones advantage to prolong this and I accept your assurance you
> did not intend to offend.
>
> Moving to your more recent posting that suggested, at least this is how read
> it, that notwithstanding the lack of a BIOS that allows direct booting from
> a USB HDD there is a work around so you can boot directly from a USB HDD;
> would you kindly explain further how this is done? As far as I know you
> cannot load drivers before the machine boots, so how does the machine
> recognise a USB drive during the boot process if there are no drivers?
> Further, how do you select, in the BIOS, to boot from the USB Drive if the
> BIOS does not allow this?
>
>
> "Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:o XXPnzsdEHA.228@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>
>>I would like to hear you explain how I "implied you made it all up." I
>>did nothing but confirm exactly what you said. I only added that a BIOS
>>with the ability to boot from USB is required. I have tried to offer a
>>couple of examples that I use that can boot from USB (both chipsets and
>>my USB Flash Drive works).
>>
>>Also, notice I never said anything about fdisk. The reason is because I
>>don't ever use fdisk as I feel it is outdated. I think it was great you
>>included that part and I never intended to attack that.
>>
>>I can see you are simply going to see me as flaming you no matter what I
>>say, so just know that I never said anything that was meant to offend
>>you, but merely offer more information (as well as confirmation).
>>
>>----
>>Nathan McNulty
>>
>>
>>Edward W. Thompson wrote:
>>
>>>You've certainly confused me now. What do you mean re your work around?
>>>Load USB drivers from a floppy to a Hard drive, then boot the system
>
> from an
>
>>>external USB Drive, unless I am missing something pretty fundemental
>
> here I
>
>>>don't think so. The machine will not recognise the USB drivers you load
>>>until the machine is booted up using the OS on the hard drive . This is
>
> not
>
>>>the same as booting directly from a USB HDD when the machine reads the
>
> OS
>
>>>from the USB HDD. Surely one of the most significant reasons to boot
>
> from a
>
>>>USB HDD is to give an alternative means to start a machine in the event
>
> of a
>
>>>failure of the fixed HDD system.
>>>
>>>With regards to the rest of your post, I think I am justified to say I
>
> was
>
>>>offended. I posted in good faith to give information to those who may
>
> be
>
>>>trying to boot from an external USB drive. I had some problems that I
>>>worked through and thought my experience may save others the same
>
> trouble I
>
>>>had. Your post did nothing but implied I have mad it all up and that
>
> you
>
>>>cannot boot directly from and external USB HDD. As far as I know, from
>
> my
>
>>>searches of Google, there is not similar info available re problems of
>
> using
>
>>>fdisk and recreating the mbr.
>>>
>>>I really wonder what you do when you really set out to offend :-).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>news:uMhvqdmdEHA.4048@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>
>>>>LOL, I never attacked the OP, nor did I mean to offend anyone. I was
>>>>just adding a little side note. Yes, booting off USB devices is simple
>>>>if your BIOS supports it. I don't even need a floppy drive since my
>>>>computer can boot off my USB Flash Drive. You simply have to have a
>>>>BIOS that supports this and set it up correctly. And just to note,
>>>>there are almost always workarounds. If you needed to boot off a USB
>>>>Harddrive and your BIOS does not support it, you use a floppy to load
>>>>the proper drivers and boot off that harddrive (which could all be
>>>>automated).
>>>>
>>>>Again, to the OP, it was not my intention to offend you, but to expound
>>>>a little bit and offer examples.
>>>>
>>>>----
>>>>Nathan McNulty
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Wislu Plethora wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>"Edward W. Thompson" <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in
>>>>>
>>>>>message
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>news:ulNdXFjdEHA.1644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear
>>>>>
>>>>>that my new
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others,
>>>>>
>>>>>who like me, may
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>not
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need,
>>>>>
>>>>>at least in my
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>case,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously
>>>>>
>>>>>partitioned.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work
>>>>>
>>>>>around' if the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>BIOS
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>does not support booting from the HDD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Don't you take the time to read what is written,
>>>>>
>>>>>however imperfectly,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>before you jump in?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:eOamKtgdEHA.1692@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports
>>>>>
>>>>>External USB Storage
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset,
>>>>>
>>>>>you can boot from
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>external USB Storage devices without any extra
>>>>>
>>>>>effort. Most of this is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if
>>>>>
>>>>>your motherboard
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>doesn't support this.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----
>>>>>>>>Nathan McNulty
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Edward W. Thompson wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I am posting my experience in making an external
>>>>>
>>>>>USB HDD bootable as
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>an
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>aide
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>to others who may be having the same problem. My OS
>>>>>
>>>>>is WINXP Pro
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>formatted
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which
>>>>>
>>>>>is housed an IBM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>DJSA
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>230
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a
>>>>>
>>>>>year to store
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>backups
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>and the like. I used the system on both my desktop
>>>>>
>>>>>(USB 2.0) and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>laptop
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>(firewire).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a
>>>>>
>>>>>motherboard that allows
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>booting
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external
>>>>>
>>>>>enclosure bootable
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>ran
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>into complications.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS
>>>>>
>>>>>onto the external
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>HDD
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed
>>>>>
>>>>>the boot order in the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process
>>>>>
>>>>>hung, although the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>external drive was recognised. I then booted to
>>>>>
>>>>>DOS via a floppy and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single
>>>>>
>>>>>primary partition.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>fdisk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have
>>>>>
>>>>>two SATA drives on my
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded
>>>>>
>>>>>the OS (Sys c:)  from
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>my
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>bootable floppy. So far so good.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk
>>>>>
>>>>>and found that I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>couldn't
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made
>>>>>
>>>>>active and the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>external
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP
>>>>>
>>>>>to make the drive
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>active
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>there (Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer
>>>>>
>>>>>Management). I changed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>boot
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot.
>>>>>
>>>>>The system again
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>hung
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>during the bootup as before.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be
>>>>>
>>>>>a MBR problem so I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>tried
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately
>>>>>
>>>>>before I tried that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on
>>>>>
>>>>>the first drive in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in
>>>>>
>>>>>my case drive 3) I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>either
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which
>>>>>
>>>>>would make the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>external
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk.
>>>>>
>>>>>By searching Google
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost,
>>>>>
>>>>>will allow rewriting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>mbr
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be
>>>>>
>>>>>available as freeware
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>but
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an
>>>>>
>>>>>old copy of the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>gdisk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>freeware version from a site by searching using
>>>>>
>>>>>Google. I recreated
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>mbr
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the
>>>>>
>>>>>external drive
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>without
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>problems.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I believe my experience only relates to previously
>>>>>
>>>>>used HDD. If a new
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>drive
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created
>>>>>
>>>>>however when an old
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>drive
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why
>>>>>
>>>>>the mbr was the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>source
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that
>>>>>
>>>>>level of knowledge,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>but
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to
>>>>>
>>>>>make a previously
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>used
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating
>>>>>
>>>>>the drive mbr will
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>required.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look
>>>>>
>>>>>up as many
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>references
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>as I
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>could find on what was entailed to make an external
>>>>>
>>>>>usb drive bootable
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>all my references suggested using fdisk, which for
>>>>>
>>>>>me gave problems,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be
>>>>>
>>>>>required.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Hope this may be of assistance to others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ed:
>>>>>>Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge
>>>>>
>>>>>you cannot boot from
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I
>>>>>
>>>>>don't come across
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>postings in various newsgroups as well as information on
>>>>>
>>>>>various web sites
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard
>>>>>
>>>>>drive as long as your
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to
>>>>>
>>>>>that effect. I've
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of
>>>>>
>>>>>which contain a BIOS
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to
>>>>>
>>>>>boot to a USB
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating
>>>>>
>>>>>system. And I have yet
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>to come across a *documented* source indicating this
>>>>>
>>>>>capability is actually
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>achievable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The following is from Western FAQs:
>>>>>>Question: Can I boot my computer using an external
>>>>>
>>>>>(FireWire, USB, Combo)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>hard drive?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical
>>>>>
>>>>>support for booting your
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers
>>>>>
>>>>>who design PC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it
>>>>>
>>>>>is not currently
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>possible to boot your computer with an external hard
>>>>>
>>>>>drive.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue
>>>>>
>>>>>and here's their
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>response:
>>>>>>"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical
>>>>>
>>>>>Support.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB
>>>>>
>>>>>drive that you have
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>cloned to using Norton Ghost.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be
>>>>>
>>>>>recognized in the boot
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge,
>>>>>
>>>>>there is no
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>motherboard that supports booting from external devices
>>>>>
>>>>>currently. This
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In addition, I raised the question with two local
>>>>>
>>>>>computer technicians in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives
>>>>>
>>>>>are not bootable.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my
>>>>>
>>>>>internal hard drives to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises,
>>>>>
>>>>>clone the external
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>drive back to the fixed internal one and under those
>>>>>
>>>>>circumstances the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>internal drive will be bootable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard
>>>>>
>>>>>drive or witnessed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Art
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The OP stated quite succinctly, "The machine now boots from
>>>>>the external drive without problems." Do you think he's
>>>>>lying?
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
Anonymous
August 1, 2004 11:28:28 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

OK we can agree upon that, but this is a long way from booting directly from
a USB HDD.


"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ek37rlydEHA.4048@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> I was suggesting it possible to boot off a floppy that loads the drivers
> for the external drive and then loads the OS off that external hard
> drive. There would be no way to directly boot off an external harddrive
> if the BIOS does not support it. I have not even tested loading the
> external drive's drivers and booting off it by booting off a floppy at
> startup. I have a feeling that I was just too tired and unclear in my
> posts.
>
> ----
> Nathan McNulty
>
> Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> > Please reread your original post as a response to mkine. I think you
may
> > then understand why I and another thought you were accusing me of lying
(in
> > the other respondents words).
> >
> > As far as I am concerned this matter is closed.
> >
> > It is to no ones advantage to prolong this and I accept your assurance
you
> > did not intend to offend.
> >
> > Moving to your more recent posting that suggested, at least this is how
read
> > it, that notwithstanding the lack of a BIOS that allows direct booting
from
> > a USB HDD there is a work around so you can boot directly from a USB
HDD;
> > would you kindly explain further how this is done? As far as I know you
> > cannot load drivers before the machine boots, so how does the machine
> > recognise a USB drive during the boot process if there are no drivers?
> > Further, how do you select, in the BIOS, to boot from the USB Drive if
the
> > BIOS does not allow this?
> >
> >
> > "Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
> > news:o XXPnzsdEHA.228@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> >
> >>I would like to hear you explain how I "implied you made it all up." I
> >>did nothing but confirm exactly what you said. I only added that a BIOS
> >>with the ability to boot from USB is required. I have tried to offer a
> >>couple of examples that I use that can boot from USB (both chipsets and
> >>my USB Flash Drive works).
> >>
> >>Also, notice I never said anything about fdisk. The reason is because I
> >>don't ever use fdisk as I feel it is outdated. I think it was great you
> >>included that part and I never intended to attack that.
> >>
> >>I can see you are simply going to see me as flaming you no matter what I
> >>say, so just know that I never said anything that was meant to offend
> >>you, but merely offer more information (as well as confirmation).
> >>
> >>----
> >>Nathan McNulty
> >>
> >>
> >>Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> >>
> >>>You've certainly confused me now. What do you mean re your work
around?
> >>>Load USB drivers from a floppy to a Hard drive, then boot the system
> >
> > from an
> >
> >>>external USB Drive, unless I am missing something pretty fundemental
> >
> > here I
> >
> >>>don't think so. The machine will not recognise the USB drivers you
load
> >>>until the machine is booted up using the OS on the hard drive . This
is
> >
> > not
> >
> >>>the same as booting directly from a USB HDD when the machine reads the
> >
> > OS
> >
> >>>from the USB HDD. Surely one of the most significant reasons to boot
> >
> > from a
> >
> >>>USB HDD is to give an alternative means to start a machine in the event
> >
> > of a
> >
> >>>failure of the fixed HDD system.
> >>>
> >>>With regards to the rest of your post, I think I am justified to say I
> >
> > was
> >
> >>>offended. I posted in good faith to give information to those who may
> >
> > be
> >
> >>>trying to boot from an external USB drive. I had some problems that I
> >>>worked through and thought my experience may save others the same
> >
> > trouble I
> >
> >>>had. Your post did nothing but implied I have mad it all up and that
> >
> > you
> >
> >>>cannot boot directly from and external USB HDD. As far as I know, from
> >
> > my
> >
> >>>searches of Google, there is not similar info available re problems of
> >
> > using
> >
> >>>fdisk and recreating the mbr.
> >>>
> >>>I really wonder what you do when you really set out to offend :-).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:uMhvqdmdEHA.4048@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>LOL, I never attacked the OP, nor did I mean to offend anyone. I was
> >>>>just adding a little side note. Yes, booting off USB devices is
simple
> >>>>if your BIOS supports it. I don't even need a floppy drive since my
> >>>>computer can boot off my USB Flash Drive. You simply have to have a
> >>>>BIOS that supports this and set it up correctly. And just to note,
> >>>>there are almost always workarounds. If you needed to boot off a USB
> >>>>Harddrive and your BIOS does not support it, you use a floppy to load
> >>>>the proper drivers and boot off that harddrive (which could all be
> >>>>automated).
> >>>>
> >>>>Again, to the OP, it was not my intention to offend you, but to
expound
> >>>>a little bit and offer examples.
> >>>>
> >>>>----
> >>>>Nathan McNulty
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Wislu Plethora wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>"Edward W. Thompson" <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in
> >>>>>
> >>>>>message
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>news:ulNdXFjdEHA.1644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear
> >>>>>
> >>>>>that my new
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>who like me, may
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>not
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>at least in my
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>case,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously
> >>>>>
> >>>>>partitioned.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work
> >>>>>
> >>>>>around' if the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>BIOS
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>does not support booting from the HDD.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Don't you take the time to read what is written,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>however imperfectly,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>before you jump in?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:eOamKtgdEHA.1692@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports
> >>>>>
> >>>>>External USB Storage
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>you can boot from
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>external USB Storage devices without any extra
> >>>>>
> >>>>>effort. Most of this is
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if
> >>>>>
> >>>>>your motherboard
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>doesn't support this.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>----
> >>>>>>>>Nathan McNulty
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I am posting my experience in making an external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>USB HDD bootable as
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>an
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>aide
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>to others who may be having the same problem. My OS
> >>>>>
> >>>>>is WINXP Pro
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>formatted
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which
> >>>>>
> >>>>>is housed an IBM
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>DJSA
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>230
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>year to store
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>backups
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>and the like. I used the system on both my desktop
> >>>>>
> >>>>>(USB 2.0) and
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>laptop
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>(firewire).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>motherboard that allows
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>booting
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>enclosure bootable
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>ran
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>into complications.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS
> >>>>>
> >>>>>onto the external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>HDD
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed
> >>>>>
> >>>>>the boot order in the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process
> >>>>>
> >>>>>hung, although the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>external drive was recognised. I then booted to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>DOS via a floppy and
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single
> >>>>>
> >>>>>primary partition.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>fdisk
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have
> >>>>>
> >>>>>two SATA drives on my
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded
> >>>>>
> >>>>>the OS (Sys c:)  from
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>my
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>bootable floppy. So far so good.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk
> >>>>>
> >>>>>and found that I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>couldn't
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made
> >>>>>
> >>>>>active and the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>external
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP
> >>>>>
> >>>>>to make the drive
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>active
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>there (Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Management). I changed
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>boot
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>The system again
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>hung
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>during the bootup as before.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be
> >>>>>
> >>>>>a MBR problem so I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>tried
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately
> >>>>>
> >>>>>before I tried that
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on
> >>>>>
> >>>>>the first drive in
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in
> >>>>>
> >>>>>my case drive 3) I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>either
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which
> >>>>>
> >>>>>would make the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>external
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>By searching Google
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>will allow rewriting
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>mbr
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be
> >>>>>
> >>>>>available as freeware
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>but
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an
> >>>>>
> >>>>>old copy of the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>gdisk
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>freeware version from a site by searching using
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Google. I recreated
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>mbr
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>external drive
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>without
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>problems.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>I believe my experience only relates to previously
> >>>>>
> >>>>>used HDD. If a new
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>drive
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created
> >>>>>
> >>>>>however when an old
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>drive
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>is
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why
> >>>>>
> >>>>>the mbr was the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>source
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that
> >>>>>
> >>>>>level of knowledge,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>but
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>make a previously
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>used
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating
> >>>>>
> >>>>>the drive mbr will
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>be
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>required.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look
> >>>>>
> >>>>>up as many
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>references
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>as I
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>could find on what was entailed to make an external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>usb drive bootable
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>and
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>all my references suggested using fdisk, which for
> >>>>>
> >>>>>me gave problems,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be
> >>>>>
> >>>>>required.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Hope this may be of assistance to others.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Ed:
> >>>>>>Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge
> >>>>>
> >>>>>you cannot boot from
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I
> >>>>>
> >>>>>don't come across
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>postings in various newsgroups as well as information on
> >>>>>
> >>>>>various web sites
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard
> >>>>>
> >>>>>drive as long as your
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>that effect. I've
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>which contain a BIOS
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>boot to a USB
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating
> >>>>>
> >>>>>system. And I have yet
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>to come across a *documented* source indicating this
> >>>>>
> >>>>>capability is actually
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>achievable.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The following is from Western FAQs:
> >>>>>>Question: Can I boot my computer using an external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>(FireWire, USB, Combo)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>hard drive?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical
> >>>>>
> >>>>>support for booting your
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers
> >>>>>
> >>>>>who design PC
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it
> >>>>>
> >>>>>is not currently
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>possible to boot your computer with an external hard
> >>>>>
> >>>>>drive.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue
> >>>>>
> >>>>>and here's their
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>response:
> >>>>>>"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Support.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB
> >>>>>
> >>>>>drive that you have
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>cloned to using Norton Ghost.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be
> >>>>>
> >>>>>recognized in the boot
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>there is no
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>motherboard that supports booting from external devices
> >>>>>
> >>>>>currently. This
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>In addition, I raised the question with two local
> >>>>>
> >>>>>computer technicians in
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives
> >>>>>
> >>>>>are not bootable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my
> >>>>>
> >>>>>internal hard drives to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>clone the external
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>drive back to the fixed internal one and under those
> >>>>>
> >>>>>circumstances the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>internal drive will be bootable.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard
> >>>>>
> >>>>>drive or witnessed
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Art
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>The OP stated quite succinctly, "The machine now boots from
> >>>>>the external drive without problems." Do you think he's
> >>>>>lying?
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
!