What a joke.

That's a national average isn't it? So your area might be less and mine might be more but the cost of living will probably even things out.

Right, and what would the cost of living increase be?

You contradicted yourself. I thought you got 10-20% more if you moved?

Didn't mean for it to come across that way.

Let's say I'm pulling 50k in my area. I move to Columbus I can make 55k doing the same thing. The COL is about the same, maybe a $800/yr difference in rent.. everything else is the same - food/gas/utilities.

I can go down to Tampa and get 60-65k for the sam ething and maybe have a $1200 more a year expense.. Tamba Bay for some reason has a high IT depression and suicide rate though. Under staffed I believe.

The cost of living here is low while in Columbus and Tampa the commute is longer, the traffic worse, etc. That's where the extra pay comes in. I drive 13 minutes to work, 20 minutes on the way. I don't care for an hour commute each way.. that's where the money comes in.

The pay here is on par with other locations, slightly lower but other areas make up for it. Basically I thin it boils down to stress, commute and how saturated the market is. We have a ton of IT here while Tampa Bay has yet to see saturation..

I think that makes sense now?

The area I want to live the houses range from 250k and upwards.

You can buy a house in a iffy area for 60k? You can buy an old victorian style house that was considered one of the best houses in the 1920s... 3000 sq ft, 3 stories, etc.. 40k? But the area is bad.

My brother bought a perfect house in november. 2 car garage, .3 acres, 2 stories, 2200 sq ft, 147k in a nice area... 3 bedrooms, 2 baths.. It's a sharp house.

This area really isn't that bad.. it's the people that make me hate it. People here are completely different compared to any other places I've been.

Why do you have to start so expensive for your area with your first house? It seems to me it would be better to get in at $100K or so just to stop renting.

Definitely. Riser doens't realize how lucky he is to even be able to afford a house.

The average home in L.A. costs $580,000.

Loma Linda is pretty far outside of Los Angeles. It's about 60 miles from here but it's way out east. It's in San Bernadino.

go to maps.google and pull it up.

$70K?!

Of course that's a good wage! After taxes that's about $1850 every other week.

The only problem you'll run into is if you want to buy a home since they're so expensive. Out there though you would have better luck than me since it's cheaper.

I don't want to drive for hours and hours every day on my commute to work.

The reason I asked is, £38,546.32 ($69,350) won't get you as much in our capital as it will in other places. It was the comparative amount I was interested in.

Do it yourself, It's cheaper.

You're paying $10260.00 P/A in rent 5 years in the house and sell it for what you paid, you're still better off. Share with another and charge them rent and even better off.

Having a house shouldn't be considered an asset but a liability.

A $100k is going to need probably need some work done to it.. $10-$15k - probably will need a roof, carpet, minor repairs. Give it about 10 years and it might be worth $125k.

Now, I could wait another year, rent, have no liability, and save up to buy that house that won't need the repairs and will appreciate at a faster rate.

Besides, at this point I want to have more cash on hand to go out and do whatever instead of settling down. That's the benefit to having an apartment over a house. On top of that, I don't have to worry about a lot of the daily upkeepings.

I am looking at condos right now.. pay the $150/mo association fee and I don't want to worry about the lawn, snow, etc.

Yeah... what everyone saying makes sense on paper. When it comes to this area though, it's not a good idea.

I have a friend who has been buying up $25k houses thinking they're going to go up and he'll turn around and sell them. He has 13 houses, he's sold one for a $5k profit after several years of renting to the same person. He rents them all out right now and breaks even for the most part. Because of the area, the price won't go up.

I figure, I'm 24. I might as well wait a few more years and buy the house I want instead of trying to sell off a house in a few years to hopefully buy what I want.

Yeah you are.. I wouldn't mind getting into rentals but I'd have to rent to the lower income people.. which I just don't see as making any money or paying off the place through their rent.

If I were going to rent a house from someone, I'd be better off buying it or renting from them if they had the house paid off.. which is hardly the case.

At very low prices, and renting to low income people, there are government programs that guarantee the rent (I think Section 8 or something), but then you need to be comfy with such stuff.

Here's the thing that you have to really consider. The tax break. I got killed last year by being single and renting. No tax shelter whatsoever. Riser says he has a good job so what is he doing with his money?

If a $150,000 house has everything he wants then he could have a tiny mortgage and at the very least be putting money into his own equity and getting a tax break. Even if he broke even on the house it would be worth it.

Assuming you put 20% down, that's a mortgage of about $800 with your property taxes. That's amazing. I can't imagine NOT doing that if I had that opportunity. I forget what Riser's rent is but it can't be that much less.

So say Riser goes "crazy" and gets a joint for $250,000. A mortgage of $1300 is a bit more and the down payment is harder to save for but I think you should count yourself fortunate to even have that opportunity.

No mate. Wrong time. Great idea, sure, but wrong time nonetheless.

A major emprical-based report has just been relased by a NZ professor I believe, who has created an accurate formula that gives a final figure which encompasses the cost of the house/dwelling versus the median wage earned in that city.

Anything over a score of 5 is considered excessively priced.

On the mean, Los Angeles had a score of 11.5; multiple other US cities were above 5 too. The UK, and London in particular, were well above 5 in many areas.

4, yes 4! of my countriy's 8 major cities were above the score of 5 with Sydney around 9 or so.

We've had an unprecedented boom that's well publicised etc.. As we all know, right? The bottom line of that report is that the growth is now unsustainable and that a fair to major regression in those respective housing markets is inevitable.

I dont understand all of US tax shelters but my advice to Riser would be to borrow as much as the banks would allow him to do so unsecured/secured and then invest that money wholely in the US market for smaller but secure returns or in BRIC: Brazilian, Russian, Indian and Chinese stocks for more lucrative gains.

World economic growth is still tremendous, particularly in China which had enjoyed 9% growth for multiple years now.

We have very handy tax breaks for those who invest in Australian shares. Quite frankly, I see much better capital gains to be made off the equities markets than the housing market.

True mate, very true.

I must say too, that I do like the idea of my own joint rather than renting.

I was one of those guys squeezed out of the market some time ago before I could get my foot in the door.

I guess its horses for courses, so to speak, and there's an element of risk versus reward in all that we do - but having your own home is a huge plus psychologically.

Stevo , mate , dont be so sure. That passionate faith you hold so dear regarding housing might prove to be your undoing.

Sure, I know the trends, the market remains stable then booms every 7 years or so, right, eh Steve?

What is conveniently forgotten by a great many - [yourself not included here Steve] - is that there have been multiple housing market crashes over the years and some were incredibly harsh.

Yeah, Aus has had 3 and 4 hundred percent increases in certain areas with some experiencing more. Completely unsustainable.

If the World Economy was to bust-up - even in a minor way like the demise of the Chinese economy - then the shit will hit the proverbial fan harder than a Milli Vanilli song dropping out of the top 100.

Interesting.

I see the wheels are turning in Tucson, Arizona, eh?

World ecomomic growth has seen the developed West able to sustain high prices in the housing sector. Of course, this rosy situation wont last for much longer; I suspect that by 2010 we will have seen a major crash.

This whole housing market bubble that is supposed to pop is almost a myth though.

There have been drops over the years but for the most part what happens is just that the market cools off. It's not like the houses are going to lose half their value. They've trippled in price though. So those that didn't get squeezed out of the housing market are doing well. The problem is for people like me. Only 9% of the population can afford to buy a house in L.A. iirc. That's just ridiculous.

In L.A. there was a drop in the 1990. My parents sold in 1989 and made out like bandits. The people that bought our house lost two hundred grand or so. That's because they sold though. There have been 3 owners of that house in the last 15 years but it has appreciated since then quite a bit. The only losers in this market are the ones who aren't buying. The worst thing that can happen is you buy, the market drops, and you have to hang on to the house for longer than you anticipated. That's a risk you take.

What riser doesn't get is that he can't lose. There's no losing on a $100,000 house.

Look at my city for a 3 bd / 2 ba single family home, cheapest one on the listings:

I'm just picking some random cities for a sample

Manhattan Beach: $1,080,000
Santa Monica: $850,000
Newport Beach: $795,000
Culver City: $679,000
Glendale: $634,900
Cerritos: $585,000
Lakewood: $529,900
Downey: $475,000
Long Beach: $369,000
Compton: $319,000

So basically I'm not even bothering looking for a house. I'm looking for a condo so that I can get something better for my money but then they don't appreciate as well.

.

Thats around 1.3 Aus.

We have a beautiful spot over here in QLD called Noosa and it commands that kind of money at least for half-decent beach orientated homes. The best, of course, are well above that as I'm sure they are in MB for the best.

Its the cash D, I tell you, most will do anything for it. Hell, I refuse, yes refuse!, to live in a suburb or city that is not higher-middle class or above. I dont want stabbings in the street; I dont want piss-heads or teens running amok in my suburb; I dont want scuzbags living next door playing Pantera and snorting Crank until 3 in the morning every night. In fact, I'll do anything to avoid that lifestyle and if it means I keep on renting then bud, I'll keep on renting.

In the Netherlands we can fully deduct any interest payments on mortgages (is this understandable english?), and given the fact that we have a (much) higher taxrate here than in the US, our tax deduction is quite significant as well.

This gives rise to financial constructions where you keep the mortgage level to the maximum (so only interest payments, no downpayments on the mortgage itself) and invest money elsewhere, where it is more profitable. (These "elsewhere's" are supplied by the same banks that give out the mortgages.)

And smart as a whip, you lucky bastage!

Where'd you get the start up capital originally Tom, if you dont mind me asking? I dont just mean for the houses either as I know you were involved in the arcade business too if I remember correctly.

Do you have a warrant? Officer.