P4C800-E Deluxe : problem connecting new drives !

[moimeme]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hi all,

hope one can help here !

System is :
- P4C800-E Deluxe
- PIV 2.8GB - FSB 800
- DDR 2GB
- on IDE 1 : DVD drive AOpen16c as Master & DVD-burner NEC 3500a as slave
working Ok & detected Ok by BIOS
- on IDE 2 : CD-RW burner AOpen 52x
working Ok & detected by BIOS
- on standard S-ATA1 connector ( NON RAID) Western Digital Raptor 30 GB as
Bootable drive
working Ok & detected by BIOS

- Promise FastTrak TX2Plus PCI adapter with 4 Maxtor DiamondMax 9 Plus 80GB
drives setup as RAID 0+1
working Ok

OS is Win XP Pro SP2 ( of course with S-ATA drivers installed at setup of
the OS, since installed on the S-ATA drive)

BIOS : compatibility mode is enhanced / with S-ATA & P-ATA mode - latest
revision ( 1019.004)

Now the problem :

I can't install any more drive !

- tried to install a Maxtor DiamondMax 9 Plus on the standard S-ATA2
connector
never detected nor by BIOS, nor in Windows's drive
manager
- tried with a Hitachi DeskStar 250 GB P-ATA on IDE connector 2
as slave
as master ( disconnected CD-RW drive)
never detected nor by BIOS nor by Windows

What am I doing wrong ? Any help ( either one would be nice !! ) ?

Thanks for any infos !

Phil

 

[moimeme]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

SOLVED !
tested again on the power connector I used for my main boot drive : now the
Hitachi drive is detected in the BIOS.
Seem I have an insufficient power problem ( although Enermax PSU of 535 W
peak 650 !)

Will try to reorganize the power connector chains to better balance power
requests. If not successfull buy even bigger PSU
( have Geforce adapter with additional power connector)

But at least Windows is OK and BIOS / Mobo Ok / and drives Ok



"MoiMeme" <moimeme@be.uk> a écrit dans le message de news:
421e1866$0$20677$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be...
> Hi all,
>
> hope one can help here !
>
> System is :
> - P4C800-E Deluxe
> - PIV 2.8GB - FSB 800
> - DDR 2GB
> - on IDE 1 : DVD drive AOpen16c as Master & DVD-burner NEC 3500a as slave
> working Ok & detected Ok by BIOS
> - on IDE 2 : CD-RW burner AOpen 52x
> working Ok & detected by BIOS
> - on standard S-ATA1 connector ( NON RAID) Western Digital Raptor 30 GB as
> Bootable drive
> working Ok & detected by BIOS
>
> - Promise FastTrak TX2Plus PCI adapter with 4 Maxtor DiamondMax 9 Plus
> 80GB drives setup as RAID 0+1
> working Ok
>
> OS is Win XP Pro SP2 ( of course with S-ATA drivers installed at setup of
> the OS, since installed on the S-ATA drive)
>
> BIOS : compatibility mode is enhanced / with S-ATA & P-ATA mode - latest
> revision ( 1019.004)
>
> Now the problem :
>
> I can't install any more drive !
>
> - tried to install a Maxtor DiamondMax 9 Plus on the standard S-ATA2
> connector
> never detected nor by BIOS, nor in Windows's drive
> manager
> - tried with a Hitachi DeskStar 250 GB P-ATA on IDE connector 2
> as slave
> as master ( disconnected CD-RW drive)
> never detected nor by BIOS nor by Windows
>
> What am I doing wrong ? Any help ( either one would be nice !! ) ?
>
> Thanks for any infos !
>
> Phil
>

 

[Paul]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <421e2ec8$0$17491$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>, "MoiMeme"
<moimeme@be.uk> wrote:

> SOLVED !
> tested again on the power connector I used for my main boot drive : now the
> Hitachi drive is detected in the BIOS.
> Seem I have an insufficient power problem ( although Enermax PSU of 535 W
> peak 650 !)
>
> Will try to reorganize the power connector chains to better balance power
> requests. If not successfull buy even bigger PSU
> ( have Geforce adapter with additional power connector)
>
> But at least Windows is OK and BIOS / Mobo Ok / and drives Ok
>
I don't think you need a bigger supply.

http://www.enermax.com.tw/products_page.php?Tid=1&gon=255&Gid=18&Gid2=42

If that is your supply, it has

+3.3V@32A
+5V@32A
+12V1@18A
+12V2@18A
-12V@0.8A
+5Vsb@/2.5A
Total power 535W

The +12V rail is split in two groups. There is 18amps for
the processor 2x2 connector plus the +12V on the main ATX
power connector. The second +12V rail is used for disk drives.

With 18 amps available on the disk drive power connectors,
that is enough to spin up 9 hard drives. The CD/DVD drives
won't draw appreciable +12V unless there is media in the
tray. Once the disk drives are up to speed, they will draw
maybe 0.5A to keep the platters spinning. You had five hard
drives, and were trying to add a sixth, so it is hard to
imagine you are out of power.

You should limit the load on any individual drive power cable.
So, as you say, rebalancing the loads will help.

Maybe the supply is not healthy. I don't know of a good way
to characterize the power supply, without some kind of testing
equipment. A cheap multimeter will allow you to measure the
voltage on a disk drive cable. The +12V should stay within 5%,
so shouldn't go below 11.4V . There could be a little drop in the
cable itself, so perhaps 11.2V would be a reasonable lower
limit for a drive cable.

The disadvantage of the power supplies that split the power
rail like this, is you cannot share the power between processor
and disk drives. There are some other power supplies, that
are the older design, and they have 12V@34A and don't split the
+12V into two separate outputs. Such a supply gives 9 or 10 amps
for the processor, 1 amp for fans, leaving 23A for disk drives,
enough to spin up 11 hard drives. By splitting the +12V (on a
ATX 2.01 spec supply), you can only spin up 9 hard drives, as
the power margin on the processor winding cannot be used.
Splitting the supply into two sections is done for safety, and
is not done for performance. An output with very large current
rating presents more of a smoke and fire danger.

The worst supplies I have seen, have the output divided into
four sections for +12V. The supply in question didn't even have
enough current to run a high end P4, making the supply perfectly
useless, even though the total power rating was over 500W. When
buying a 500W supply, check how many +12V windings are present,
and whether each of them is suitable for the load they are
driving. In some cases, the manufacturer doesn't indicate which
power cable is connected to which output, so you cannot know
whether the supply is adequate or not.

Paul

 

[moimeme]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Have reorganized my power rails. I was trying to connect the drive to bad
connectors ( not enough Amps).
Now works fine without any noticeable problem.
So many cables and connectors that I hadn't found good one. Had to reinspect
carefully to find correct rail !
Your comments were very interesting and confort me that I do not need to
invest in bigger PSU ( not cheap !)
Thanks !
Regards

"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
nospam-2402051707150001@192.168.1.177...
> In article <421e2ec8$0$17491$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>, "MoiMeme"
> <moimeme@be.uk> wrote:
>
>> SOLVED !
>> tested again on the power connector I used for my main boot drive : now
>> the
>> Hitachi drive is detected in the BIOS.
>> Seem I have an insufficient power problem ( although Enermax PSU of 535 W
>> peak 650 !)
>>
>> Will try to reorganize the power connector chains to better balance power
>> requests. If not successfull buy even bigger PSU
>> ( have Geforce adapter with additional power connector)
>>
>> But at least Windows is OK and BIOS / Mobo Ok / and drives Ok
>>
> I don't think you need a bigger supply.
>
> http://www.enermax.com.tw/products_page.php?Tid=1&gon=255&Gid=18&Gid2=42
>
> If that is your supply, it has
>
> +3.3V@32A
> +5V@32A
> +12V1@18A
> +12V2@18A
> -12V@0.8A
> +5Vsb@/2.5A
> Total power 535W
>
> The +12V rail is split in two groups. There is 18amps for
> the processor 2x2 connector plus the +12V on the main ATX
> power connector. The second +12V rail is used for disk drives.
>
> With 18 amps available on the disk drive power connectors,
> that is enough to spin up 9 hard drives. The CD/DVD drives
> won't draw appreciable +12V unless there is media in the
> tray. Once the disk drives are up to speed, they will draw
> maybe 0.5A to keep the platters spinning. You had five hard
> drives, and were trying to add a sixth, so it is hard to
> imagine you are out of power.
>
> You should limit the load on any individual drive power cable.
> So, as you say, rebalancing the loads will help.
>
> Maybe the supply is not healthy. I don't know of a good way
> to characterize the power supply, without some kind of testing
> equipment. A cheap multimeter will allow you to measure the
> voltage on a disk drive cable. The +12V should stay within 5%,
> so shouldn't go below 11.4V . There could be a little drop in the
> cable itself, so perhaps 11.2V would be a reasonable lower
> limit for a drive cable.
>
> The disadvantage of the power supplies that split the power
> rail like this, is you cannot share the power between processor
> and disk drives. There are some other power supplies, that
> are the older design, and they have 12V@34A and don't split the
> +12V into two separate outputs. Such a supply gives 9 or 10 amps
> for the processor, 1 amp for fans, leaving 23A for disk drives,
> enough to spin up 11 hard drives. By splitting the +12V (on a
> ATX 2.01 spec supply), you can only spin up 9 hard drives, as
> the power margin on the processor winding cannot be used.
> Splitting the supply into two sections is done for safety, and
> is not done for performance. An output with very large current
> rating presents more of a smoke and fire danger.
>
> The worst supplies I have seen, have the output divided into
> four sections for +12V. The supply in question didn't even have
> enough current to run a high end P4, making the supply perfectly
> useless, even though the total power rating was over 500W. When
> buying a 500W supply, check how many +12V windings are present,
> and whether each of them is suitable for the load they are
> driving. In some cases, the manufacturer doesn't indicate which
> power cable is connected to which output, so you cannot know
> whether the supply is adequate or not.
>
> Paul