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Asus A78VX and 3 sticks of DDR400

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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 10, 2005 11:02:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hello, All!

I've had a 512mb stick of Corsair DDR400 in slot 1 for quite a while. The
board is OC'ed 12.5% and stable as a rock. I decided to add some more
memory - 1 gb to be exact. The sticks are also DDR400/PC3200 Corsair 512mb
sticks (so called Value Select from NewEgg). The problem - a new stick in
slots 2 and 3 and all is 'apparently' ok thru the post (1.5 gb shows, no
unusual beeps), but when it is time for either Win2k or XP (dual boot) to
start I get a missing ntfs.sys missing or in the case of the XP boot a BSOD.

If I take out the #2 slot all is well; I am just short 512mb since it is
sitting on the desk!

Any suggestions for getting all three to work?

Thanks.

Colonel Blip.
E-mail: colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com



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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 10, 2005 11:35:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Those Corsair Value Rams can be mismatched. Do they have different model
numbers and appearances, visibly different chip arrangements?

Possibly you're trying to run in dual channel unwittingly and a ram mismatch
is crashing it. If so, you can set it to single channel.

--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
uce@ftc.gov
Thanks, robots.
March 11, 2005 3:50:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <3e9Yd.52568$xt.13291@fed1read07>, "Ed Light"
<nobody@nobody.there> wrote:

> Those Corsair Value Rams can be mismatched. Do they have different model
> numbers and appearances, visibly different chip arrangements?
>
> Possibly you're trying to run in dual channel unwittingly and a ram mismatch
> is crashing it. If so, you can set it to single channel.

No, it is single channel A7V8X and he isn't following the rules
in the manual.

"These three 184-pin DIMM sockets support up
to 3GB system memory using unbuffered non-ECC
PC2100/1600 DDR DIMMs.

(Note: PC2700 maximum to 2 DIMM support only.
PC3200 maximum to 1 DIMM support only.)"

If he wants to guarantee the three sticks work with
memtest86 or prime95, he'll have to turn them down
to DDR266, if using three sticks. Two sticks, the
setting to use is DDR333.

And, turning down the memory to DDR266, means the
FSB is limited to FSB266. (See table in manual.)
Means, he gets to enjoy lots of memory, but with
a big hit on the processor.

The Asus rules in the manual, are typical limitations
for single channel DDR from that era.

Paul
Related resources
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 11, 2005 1:00:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hello, Paul!
You wrote on Fri, 11 Mar 2005 00:50:18 -0500:

P> In article <3e9Yd.52568$xt.13291@fed1read07>, "Ed Light"
P> <nobody@nobody.there> wrote:

P> No, it is single channel A7V8X and he isn't following the rules
P> in the manual.

P> "These three 184-pin DIMM sockets support up
P> to 3GB system memory using unbuffered non-ECC
P> PC2100/1600 DDR DIMMs.

Actually my manual says "These three 184-pin DIMM sockets support up to 3GB
system memory using unbuffered non-ECC PC3200/PC2700/2100/1600 DDR DIMMs."

P> (Note: PC2700 maximum to 2 DIMM support only.
P> PC3200 maximum to 1 DIMM support only.)"

True enough; I just missed the 2 DIMM at 2700; so guess right now that is
where I am.

P> If he wants to guarantee the three sticks work with
P> memtest86 or prime95, he'll have to turn them down
P> to DDR266, if using three sticks. Two sticks, the
P> setting to use is DDR333.

Strange though that 3 sticks do not work. Maybe because of my BIOS settings?
This is what I have set, in order, on the Advanced menu (pg. 4-17 in
manual):

Manual
12.5
177/35
354
Manual
1.85
Auto
2.85
Turbo
Enabled
Enabled
Auto
Auto
Disabled

Under Chip Configuraion I have it set at 'by SPD'.

P> And, turning down the memory to DDR266, means the
P> FSB is limited to FSB266. (See table in manual.)
P> Means, he gets to enjoy lots of memory, but with
P> a big hit on the processor.

No benchmarks here, but it is not obvious that there has been any advantage
or hit with the 2 stick version.

P> The Asus rules in the manual, are typical limitations
P> for single channel DDR from that era.

P> Paul


Thanks.

Colonel Blip.
E-mail: colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com



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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 11, 2005 1:01:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hello, Ed!
You wrote on Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:35:10 -0800:

EL> Those Corsair Value Rams can be mismatched. Do they have different
EL> model numbers and appearances, visibly different chip arrangements?

EL> Possibly you're trying to run in dual channel unwittingly and a ram
EL> mismatch is crashing it. If so, you can set it to single channel.

They are a matched set. I think Paul hit the nail on the head re: my
problems.

Thanks.

Colonel Blip.
E-mail: colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com



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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 11, 2005 1:04:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hello, Paul!
You wrote on Fri, 11 Mar 2005 00:50:18 -0500:

I guess this begs the question - I really bought the PC3200 in anticipation
of buying an Asus A8V for an Athlon64 3000+ later this year. My read on the
Asus site is that all three of these sticks should work fine at DDR400, but
in view of my weak reading, maybe you could comment?

Thanks.

Colonel Blip.
E-mail: colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com



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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 11, 2005 3:55:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Colonel Blip wrote:
> Hello, All!
>
> I've had a 512mb stick of Corsair DDR400 in slot 1 for quite a while.
The
> board is OC'ed 12.5% and stable as a rock. I decided to add some
more
> memory - 1 gb to be exact. The sticks are also DDR400/PC3200 Corsair
512mb
> sticks (so called Value Select from NewEgg). The problem - a new
stick in
> slots 2 and 3 and all is 'apparently' ok thru the post (1.5 gb shows,
no
> unusual beeps), but when it is time for either Win2k or XP (dual
boot) to
> start I get a missing ntfs.sys missing or in the case of the XP boot
a BSOD.
>
> If I take out the #2 slot all is well; I am just short 512mb since it
is
> sitting on the desk!
>
> Any suggestions for getting all three to work?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Colonel Blip.
> E-mail: colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com
>
>
>
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News==----
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120,000+ Newsgroups
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=----

I have a K8NE-DLX with 2 x 512 MB sticks of PC3200 ram. I was
considering adding a third stick for 1.5 GB total but when I read the
manual I found that three sticks of PC3200 RAM was not a valid
configuration. It sort of makes sense when you think about it. There's
enough capacitive loading at 200 MHz that the timing specs get violated
with three sticks in there. I bet you could make it work if you backed
off on the memory speed from 200 MHz clock to 177 MHz. Anyway, I didn't
do the upgrade, but you could try backing off on the clock to see if
that makes it work reliably.

Arnie
March 12, 2005 1:32:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <4231c250$1_1@127.0.0.1>, "Colonel Blip"
<colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com> wrote:

> Hello, Paul!
> You wrote on Fri, 11 Mar 2005 00:50:18 -0500:
>
> I guess this begs the question - I really bought the PC3200 in anticipation
> of buying an Asus A8V for an Athlon64 3000+ later this year. My read on the
> Asus site is that all three of these sticks should work fine at DDR400, but
> in view of my weak reading, maybe you could comment?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Colonel Blip.
> E-mail: colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com
>
>
>
As Arnie explained, electrical reflections limit the speed that
the memory can work at.

Some very rough rules of thumb (i.e. I made them up :-)

SDRAM DDR
4 sticks @ PC100 --- (never seen four sticks with DDR)
3 sticks @ PC133 3 sticks @ DDR266
2 sticks @ PC150 2 sticks @ DDR333
1 stick @ PC166 1 stick @ DDR400

The only reason SDRAM doesn't follow the same curve, is the
chips probably cannot go fast enough to do "PC200".

I really think the best configuration for you, is two
sticks in slots 1 and 3. Running the memory and FSB in
sync should give the best performance. (My comment on
performance hit, was with respect to setting the FSB
and the memory down to 266, that would cause your
processor core clock to drop - unless you had a Mobile
and working multipliers that could be cranked.)

The A8V is a dual channel memory confguration. Each
channel is separate, and electrical reflections are
independent on the two channels. (That is one of the
hidden benefits - divide and conquer.) Each channel has
room for two sticks, meaning 2 sticks at DDR333 is a slam
dunk. It is possible you can squeeze DDR400 out of two sticks
on the same channel, but that typically requires setting
command rate to 2T (that wastes a cycle, allowing the
address to settle down - the penalty is 20% memory bandwidth
reduction).

So, two sticks in dual channel mode, equals one stick per channel
on the A8V, and easily allows DDR400. Four sticks in dual
channel mode, equals two sticks per channel on the A8V,
and that means DDR333 1T command rate or DDR400 2T command
rate. If you are an overclocker, obviously one stick per channel
is the way to go. If you want a lot of memory, you can find
some corsairmicro.com 1GB sticks, and use two of those for
2GB of memory.

signal integrity:
http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=50000278

memory bus signals - more DIMMs equals more ulgy pictures :-)
http://literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5988-9265EN.pd...

Paul
March 12, 2005 5:16:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"Colonel Blip" <colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:4230fd07$1_2@127.0.0.1...
> Hello, All!
>
> I've had a 512mb stick of Corsair DDR400 in slot 1 for quite a while. The
> board is OC'ed 12.5% and stable as a rock. I decided to add some more
> memory - 1 gb to be exact. The sticks are also DDR400/PC3200 Corsair 512mb
> sticks (so called Value Select from NewEgg). The problem - a new stick in
> slots 2 and 3 and all is 'apparently' ok thru the post (1.5 gb shows, no
> unusual beeps), but when it is time for either Win2k or XP (dual boot) to
> start I get a missing ntfs.sys missing or in the case of the XP boot a
> BSOD.
>
> If I take out the #2 slot all is well; I am just short 512mb since it is
> sitting on the desk!
>
> Any suggestions for getting all three to work?


You may not be able to. Even though they have 3 memory slots some Asus
motherboards state that they can only support 2 sticks of PC3200 memory. My
A7V600-X has this disclaimer. They say up to 3 in PC2100 or PC2700 but only
2 PC3200. perhaps it's something about the 400mhz bus support.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 12, 2005 2:26:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hello, Paul!
You wrote on Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:32:07 -0500:

P> In article <4231c250$1_1@127.0.0.1>, "Colonel Blip"
P> <colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com> wrote:


P> The A8V is a dual channel memory confguration. Each
P> channel is separate, and electrical reflections are
P> independent on the two channels. (That is one of the
P> hidden benefits - divide and conquer.) Each channel has
P> room for two sticks, meaning 2 sticks at DDR333 is a slam
P> dunk. It is possible you can squeeze DDR400 out of two sticks
P> on the same channel, but that typically requires setting
P> command rate to 2T (that wastes a cycle, allowing the
P> address to settle down - the penalty is 20% memory bandwidth
P> reduction).

P> So, two sticks in dual channel mode, equals one stick per channel
P> on the A8V, and easily allows DDR400. Four sticks in dual
P> channel mode, equals two sticks per channel on the A8V,
P> and that means DDR333 1T command rate or DDR400 2T command
P> rate. If you are an overclocker, obviously one stick per channel
P> is the way to go. If you want a lot of memory, you can find
P> some corsairmicro.com 1GB sticks, and use two of those for
P> 2GB of memory.

Thanks to all for input on this, both with current A78VX and A8V look-ahead.


Thanks.

Colonel Blip.
E-mail: colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com



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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 12, 2005 2:32:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hello,

All of the help around memory and ASUS board raises another question in my
mind about motherboards from ASUS. I've had several, all around the VIA
chips. I'm wondering what the pros/cons of VIA based vs. nVidia based
chipset motherboards. Is there some inherent advantage of one vs. the other?
I generally try to o/c but just modestly trying to make sure the system gets
the most performance at absolute hardware stability.

Thanks.

Colonel Blip.
E-mail: colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com



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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 12, 2005 7:14:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

I have Abit NFS-7 rev2 Nforce 2 board. Running 3 sticks 512Mb PC3200 at
400Mhz. 2 x Corsair + 1 x Twinmos
Go into bios and change from by SPD to user select. Mine run at
Cas2.5,3,3,11
try slower timing first - say cas 3, 4, 4, 11 - then tighten them up until
it doesn't boot (lower values).
Then go back a notch or two. The 2 corsairs on mine run in dual channel.

The manuals only say they support/run as DDR333 as they have to cover "all
bases/configurations".
Even my manual says DDR333 for 3 sticks.

Pete H

"Chuck" <chuck_les_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:risYd.165135$JF2.152572@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "Colonel Blip" <colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:4230fd07$1_2@127.0.0.1...
>> Hello, All!
>>
>> I've had a 512mb stick of Corsair DDR400 in slot 1 for quite a while. The
>> board is OC'ed 12.5% and stable as a rock. I decided to add some more
>> memory - 1 gb to be exact. The sticks are also DDR400/PC3200 Corsair
>> 512mb
>> sticks (so called Value Select from NewEgg). The problem - a new stick in
>> slots 2 and 3 and all is 'apparently' ok thru the post (1.5 gb shows, no
>> unusual beeps), but when it is time for either Win2k or XP (dual boot) to
>> start I get a missing ntfs.sys missing or in the case of the XP boot a
>> BSOD.
>>
>> If I take out the #2 slot all is well; I am just short 512mb since it is
>> sitting on the desk!
>>
>> Any suggestions for getting all three to work?
>
>
> You may not be able to. Even though they have 3 memory slots some Asus
> motherboards state that they can only support 2 sticks of PC3200 memory.
> My A7V600-X has this disclaimer. They say up to 3 in PC2100 or PC2700 but
> only 2 PC3200. perhaps it's something about the 400mhz bus support.
>
March 12, 2005 7:14:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"Pete H" <blah@blah.com> wrote in message news:423281b5@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>I have Abit NFS-7 rev2 Nforce 2 board. Running 3 sticks 512Mb PC3200 at
>400Mhz. 2 x Corsair + 1 x Twinmos
> Go into bios and change from by SPD to user select. Mine run at
> Cas2.5,3,3,11
> try slower timing first - say cas 3, 4, 4, 11 - then tighten them up until
> it doesn't boot (lower values).
> Then go back a notch or two. The 2 corsairs on mine run in dual channel.
>
> The manuals only say they support/run as DDR333 as they have to cover "all
> bases/configurations".
> Even my manual says DDR333 for 3 sticks.
>
> Pete H

That's true and you can run it at 333 however it will run out of sync with
processor bus causing a 17% loss in memory bandwidth. You're probably better
off just using 2 sticks. especially if the board in question has Dual Data
rate capability, the 3rd slot doesn't play a part in that, 2 of them. what
would you rather have 1.5 GB of memory with a 2.6 ghz bandwidth or 1 GB with
6.4 ghz of bandwidth, think about the preformance difference.
March 12, 2005 7:14:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <423281b5@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, "Pete H" <blah@blah.com> wrote:

> I have Abit NFS-7 rev2 Nforce 2 board. Running 3 sticks 512Mb PC3200 at
> 400Mhz. 2 x Corsair + 1 x Twinmos
> Go into bios and change from by SPD to user select. Mine run at
> Cas2.5,3,3,11
> try slower timing first - say cas 3, 4, 4, 11 - then tighten them up until
> it doesn't boot (lower values).
> Then go back a notch or two. The 2 corsairs on mine run in dual channel.
>
> The manuals only say they support/run as DDR333 as they have to cover "all
> bases/configurations".
> Even my manual says DDR333 for 3 sticks.
>
> Pete H

The NF7-S is AFAIK, a dual channel Nforce2 board. There are two
memory sticks on one channel. One memory stick on the second channel.
That is not nearly the loading _per channel_ of the A7V8X board.
It is three sticks on a single channel, which is why it is more
temperamental about bus loading.

In addition to that, the Nforce2 has three address generators, one
per stick (this is anecdotal info, I haven't seen a summary sheet
from Nvidia). If this is in fact true, Nforce2 is the cadillac of
memory interfaces - one address bus per DIMM. It doesn't get better
than that. That is why it runs a full load of memory so well.

I've run 3x512MB in my A7N8X-E Nforce2 board also. At DDR400 2-2-2-6.

I've also done an experiment, and when the memory channels are
unbalanced (in this case, 2x512 on one channel, 1x512 on the other),
the chipset continues to run in dual channel mode. It is dual
channel for the lower 1024MB of memory, and runs single channel
for the upper 512MB of memory. I measured this with a specially
modified copy of memtest86. In summary, the Nforce2 is a pretty
unique piece of silicon, and no-one else designs memory controllers
quite like that one.

Paul

>
> "Chuck" <chuck_les_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:risYd.165135$JF2.152572@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> >
> > "Colonel Blip" <colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com> wrote in message
> > news:4230fd07$1_2@127.0.0.1...
> >> Hello, All!
> >>
> >> I've had a 512mb stick of Corsair DDR400 in slot 1 for quite a while. The
> >> board is OC'ed 12.5% and stable as a rock. I decided to add some more
> >> memory - 1 gb to be exact. The sticks are also DDR400/PC3200 Corsair
> >> 512mb
> >> sticks (so called Value Select from NewEgg). The problem - a new stick in
> >> slots 2 and 3 and all is 'apparently' ok thru the post (1.5 gb shows, no
> >> unusual beeps), but when it is time for either Win2k or XP (dual boot) to
> >> start I get a missing ntfs.sys missing or in the case of the XP boot a
> >> BSOD.
> >>
> >> If I take out the #2 slot all is well; I am just short 512mb since it is
> >> sitting on the desk!
> >>
> >> Any suggestions for getting all three to work?
> >
> >
> > You may not be able to. Even though they have 3 memory slots some Asus
> > motherboards state that they can only support 2 sticks of PC3200 memory.
> > My A7V600-X has this disclaimer. They say up to 3 in PC2100 or PC2700 but
> > only 2 PC3200. perhaps it's something about the 400mhz bus support.
> >
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 12, 2005 7:17:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Duh, see you have A78VX - Via board? - is that Athlon Xp or A64?. Should
still be similar.

Pete H

"Pete H" <blah@blah.com> wrote in message news:423281b5@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>I have Abit NFS-7 rev2 Nforce 2 board. Running 3 sticks 512Mb PC3200 at
>400Mhz. 2 x Corsair + 1 x Twinmos
> Go into bios and change from by SPD to user select. Mine run at
> Cas2.5,3,3,11
> try slower timing first - say cas 3, 4, 4, 11 - then tighten them up until
> it doesn't boot (lower values).
> Then go back a notch or two. The 2 corsairs on mine run in dual channel.
>
> The manuals only say they support/run as DDR333 as they have to cover "all
> bases/configurations".
> Even my manual says DDR333 for 3 sticks.
>
> Pete H
>
> "Chuck" <chuck_les_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:risYd.165135$JF2.152572@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>>
>> "Colonel Blip" <colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com> wrote in message
>> news:4230fd07$1_2@127.0.0.1...
>>> Hello, All!
>>>
>>> I've had a 512mb stick of Corsair DDR400 in slot 1 for quite a while.
>>> The
>>> board is OC'ed 12.5% and stable as a rock. I decided to add some more
>>> memory - 1 gb to be exact. The sticks are also DDR400/PC3200 Corsair
>>> 512mb
>>> sticks (so called Value Select from NewEgg). The problem - a new stick
>>> in
>>> slots 2 and 3 and all is 'apparently' ok thru the post (1.5 gb shows, no
>>> unusual beeps), but when it is time for either Win2k or XP (dual boot)
>>> to
>>> start I get a missing ntfs.sys missing or in the case of the XP boot a
>>> BSOD.
>>>
>>> If I take out the #2 slot all is well; I am just short 512mb since it is
>>> sitting on the desk!
>>>
>>> Any suggestions for getting all three to work?
>>
>>
>> You may not be able to. Even though they have 3 memory slots some Asus
>> motherboards state that they can only support 2 sticks of PC3200 memory.
>> My A7V600-X has this disclaimer. They say up to 3 in PC2100 or PC2700 but
>> only 2 PC3200. perhaps it's something about the 400mhz bus support.
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 12, 2005 7:17:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hello, Pete!
You wrote on Sat, 12 Mar 2005 16:17:57 +1030:

PH> Duh, see you have A78VX - Via board? - is that Athlon Xp or A64?.
PH> Should still be similar.

PH> Pete H

PH> "Pete H" <blah@blah.com> wrote in message
news:423281b5@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
??>> I have Abit NFS-7 rev2 Nforce 2 board. Running 3 sticks 512Mb PC3200

XP not 64.
Thanks.

Colonel Blip.
E-mail: colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com



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March 13, 2005 12:44:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <4233284f$1_1@127.0.0.1>, "Colonel Blip"
<colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> All of the help around memory and ASUS board raises another question in my
> mind about motherboards from ASUS. I've had several, all around the VIA
> chips. I'm wondering what the pros/cons of VIA based vs. nVidia based
> chipset motherboards. Is there some inherent advantage of one vs. the other?
> I generally try to o/c but just modestly trying to make sure the system gets
> the most performance at absolute hardware stability.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Colonel Blip.
> E-mail: colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com

To answer that question, you need to look at a block diagram of
a typical S939 system. See the figure at the bottom of this page:

http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/k8-series/k8...

First of all, memory connects directly to the processor. That
eliminates Nvidia and VIA, from any discussions about memory
stability. At one time, the Northbridge interfaced to memory,
and some chipsets were better at driving memory than others.

Now, you are dependent on the S939 processor having a good memory
controller design.

The next thing to see, is the HT bus that goes from the processor
to the Northbridge. HT has an upper limit, and it could be 800 or
1000MB/sec. Since HT is a full duplex bus, there can be 800 up
and 800 down, 1000 up and 1000 down. That is why sometimes the
diagram will show 1000 or 2000, depending on how the artist is
counting the bandwidth.

So, you want a chipset that support 1000 on HT if you can get it.

When using the board, FSB x HT_mult = HT_rate. If you run the FSB
at 300, and set HT_mult to 3, then the resulting 900 is less than
the 1000 max. If you had a limit of 800 to work with, the HT_mult
would have to be set to 2.

Does HT matter ? Well, all the I/O is going through there.
Including sending commands to the video card.

After that, we are comparing internal features. For example,
Nvidia has a firewall in one of its chips. And depending who
you talk to, that can be either a feature or a bug.

The next thing to consider, is clocking and issues related.
Does the chipset have a "PCI/AGP lock" ? The lock is another
way of saying, "Is the AGP bus rate independent of the other
clock settings ?". By independent, that means a separate clock
signal comes from the clockgen to the AGP interface circuitry,
and when you dial up the FSB clock, the AGP clock can remain
a nice steady 66MHz. Similarly, PCi remains a nice steady
33MHz.

Clocks that need to be stable, are PCI clock, AGP clock,
IDE disk drive clock, SATA disk drive clock, and any interface
circuitry that glues those blocks to the system busses. If you
want an obscure bug, for example, there are some chipsets where
the AC97 onboard sound goes for a **** if you overclock, which
means the designers did not do a good job of gluing the sound
logic to the Southbridge.

If you read up on overclocking experiences, like Anandtech
reviews, you may find some hints there as to which chipsets
have SATA clocking problems, and at what frequency they happen.
Sometimes, the workaround is to use whatever separate RAID
controller the motherboard has, as the home of the boot drive.
There is less chance of such a controller locking the SATA clock
to the PCI bus clock, or making a silly mistake gluing the
SATA interface to the PCI bus. So a chipset SATA clocking problem
is not the end of the world.

The bus that runs from the Northbridge to the Southbridge is
also important. If has to run faster than the busses that
feed off of it. VIA chipsets use 266/533/1066MB/sec busses,
and it is a good idea to check the chipset, to see which is
being used. Intel uses 266MB/sec on theirs. I don't know what
Nvidia does (as Nvidia provides no documentation on their
chipsets). As long as the North/South bus is faster than a
reasonable mix of bus traffic for devices off the Southbridge,
you should be in good shape. There was a time when a PCI
bus joined the Northbridge to the Southbridge, and with
only 133MB/sec to offer (half duplex too), I/O was slower
than it had to be. Fortunately, those days are over.

HTH,
Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 13, 2005 4:25:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Good info Paul. yeah mine says dual channel DDR400 when it boots. Not that
dual makes any noticable difference anyway on NF2 - maybe a few % in mem
benchmarks only.

I'd still say the Colonel (if he hasn't already) should try user select for
the ram timings and ram-cpu ratio/frequency unless the board/bios
autoselects ddr333 or 266 for the ram with no option to get around it.

PeteH

"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-1203051143190001@192.168.1.178...
> In article <423281b5@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, "Pete H" <blah@blah.com> wrote:
>
>> I have Abit NFS-7 rev2 Nforce 2 board. Running 3 sticks 512Mb PC3200 at
>> 400Mhz. 2 x Corsair + 1 x Twinmos
>> Go into bios and change from by SPD to user select. Mine run at
>> Cas2.5,3,3,11
>> try slower timing first - say cas 3, 4, 4, 11 - then tighten them up
>> until
>> it doesn't boot (lower values).
>> Then go back a notch or two. The 2 corsairs on mine run in dual channel.
>>
>> The manuals only say they support/run as DDR333 as they have to cover
>> "all
>> bases/configurations".
>> Even my manual says DDR333 for 3 sticks.
>>
>> Pete H
>
> The NF7-S is AFAIK, a dual channel Nforce2 board. There are two
> memory sticks on one channel. One memory stick on the second channel.
> That is not nearly the loading _per channel_ of the A7V8X board.
> It is three sticks on a single channel, which is why it is more
> temperamental about bus loading.
>
> In addition to that, the Nforce2 has three address generators, one
> per stick (this is anecdotal info, I haven't seen a summary sheet
> from Nvidia). If this is in fact true, Nforce2 is the cadillac of
> memory interfaces - one address bus per DIMM. It doesn't get better
> than that. That is why it runs a full load of memory so well.
>
> I've run 3x512MB in my A7N8X-E Nforce2 board also. At DDR400 2-2-2-6.
>
> I've also done an experiment, and when the memory channels are
> unbalanced (in this case, 2x512 on one channel, 1x512 on the other),
> the chipset continues to run in dual channel mode. It is dual
> channel for the lower 1024MB of memory, and runs single channel
> for the upper 512MB of memory. I measured this with a specially
> modified copy of memtest86. In summary, the Nforce2 is a pretty
> unique piece of silicon, and no-one else designs memory controllers
> quite like that one.
>
> Paul
>
>>
>> "Chuck" <chuck_les_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:risYd.165135$JF2.152572@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>> >
>> > "Colonel Blip" <colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com> wrote in message
>> > news:4230fd07$1_2@127.0.0.1...
>> >> Hello, All!
>> >>
>> >> I've had a 512mb stick of Corsair DDR400 in slot 1 for quite a while.
>> >> The
>> >> board is OC'ed 12.5% and stable as a rock. I decided to add some more
>> >> memory - 1 gb to be exact. The sticks are also DDR400/PC3200 Corsair
>> >> 512mb
>> >> sticks (so called Value Select from NewEgg). The problem - a new stick
>> >> in
>> >> slots 2 and 3 and all is 'apparently' ok thru the post (1.5 gb shows,
>> >> no
>> >> unusual beeps), but when it is time for either Win2k or XP (dual boot)
>> >> to
>> >> start I get a missing ntfs.sys missing or in the case of the XP boot a
>> >> BSOD.
>> >>
>> >> If I take out the #2 slot all is well; I am just short 512mb since it
>> >> is
>> >> sitting on the desk!
>> >>
>> >> Any suggestions for getting all three to work?
>> >
>> >
>> > You may not be able to. Even though they have 3 memory slots some Asus
>> > motherboards state that they can only support 2 sticks of PC3200
>> > memory.
>> > My A7V600-X has this disclaimer. They say up to 3 in PC2100 or PC2700
>> > but
>> > only 2 PC3200. perhaps it's something about the 400mhz bus support.
>> >
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 13, 2005 6:27:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hello, Paul!
You wrote on Sun, 13 Mar 2005 09:44:51 -0500:

P> In article <4233284f$1_1@127.0.0.1>, "Colonel Blip"
P> <colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com> wrote:


P> HTH,
P> Paul

Indeed it does.

Thanks.

Colonel Blip.
E-mail: colonel.blip@removethespambigfoot.com



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