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Managing XP system space for the MFT

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Anonymous
August 14, 2004 12:55:50 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Executive Software's Diskeeper 8 shows me two unexpected things
about my XP Pro system:

(1) The MFT on the system partition (called C) is in SIX parts.

(2) On another NTFS partition (called D) there is a surprisingly
large amount of space (12% of total partition space) reserved for
system requirements. However I switched off XP's "system
monitoring" for this drive long ago.

Defragging with Diskeeper 8 from within XP and at boot-time does
not get the MFT into fewer than 2 parts. And the defragging does
not reduce the excess space allocated to the system.

-----

Is there a way I can see what system free space there is for use
specifically by:

(A) The MFT ?
(B) System restore points in the System Volume Information folder ?

Most importantly, how do I get the MFT into a single part and also
give it enough space?

I have used a reg hack (from
http://www.tweakxp.com/tweak123951.aspx) to give the MFT a medium
space allocation but it doesn't seem to have made a difference.

I have never had to use XP system restore points as I back up whole
partitions by making duplicates of them. So I don't mind if I have
no space at all on any drive for system restore points.

Svend



===========================================================
Defragger data follows in case it helps.


Volume 60_WinXP (C:) :
Volume size = 6,793 MB
Cluster size = 4 KB
Used space = 4,663 MB
Free space = 2,129 MB
Percent free space = 31 %
Defragmentation method = Max Disk Performance

Fragmentation percentage
Volume fragmentation = 0 %
Data fragmentation = 0 %

File fragmentation
Total files = 44,872
Average file size = 151 KB
Total fragmented files = 0
Total excess fragments = 0
Average fragments per file = 1.00

Paging file fragmentation
Paging/Swap file size = 100 MB
Total fragments = 1

Directory fragmentation
Total directories = 3,660
Fragmented directories = 0
Excess directory fragments = 0

Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
Total MFT size = 92,523 KB
MFT records In Use = 48,607
Percent MFT in use = 52 %
Total MFT fragments = 2

-----

Volume 60_DATA [39GB] (D:) :
Volume size = 39,942 MB
Cluster size = 8 KB
Used space = 25,030 MB
Free space = 14,912 MB
Percent free space = 37 %

Fragmentation percentage
Volume fragmentation = 0 %
Data fragmentation = 0 %

File fragmentation
Total files = 58,992
Average file size = 507 KB
Total fragmented files = 0
Total excess fragments = 0
Average fragments per file = 1.00

Paging file fragmentation
Paging/Swap file size = 0 bytes
Total fragments = 0

Directory fragmentation
Total directories = 5,018
Fragmented directories = 0
Excess directory fragments = 0

Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
Total MFT size = 125 MB
MFT records In Use = 64,032
Percent MFT in use = 49 %
Total MFT fragments = 2

-------------------------------------------------------------------
August 14, 2004 12:55:51 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=Executive...

--
All the Best,
Kelly

Microsoft-MVP Windows® XP
2004 Windows MVP "Winny" Award

Troubleshooting Windows XP
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com




"Svend Cr" <nomail@mail.com> wrote in message
news:95455AD90FC0A471AE@127.0.0.1...
> Executive Software's Diskeeper 8 shows me two unexpected things
> about my XP Pro system:
>
> (1) The MFT on the system partition (called C) is in SIX parts.
>
> (2) On another NTFS partition (called D) there is a surprisingly
> large amount of space (12% of total partition space) reserved for
> system requirements. However I switched off XP's "system
> monitoring" for this drive long ago.
>
> Defragging with Diskeeper 8 from within XP and at boot-time does
> not get the MFT into fewer than 2 parts. And the defragging does
> not reduce the excess space allocated to the system.
>
> -----
>
> Is there a way I can see what system free space there is for use
> specifically by:
>
> (A) The MFT ?
> (B) System restore points in the System Volume Information folder ?
>
> Most importantly, how do I get the MFT into a single part and also
> give it enough space?
>
> I have used a reg hack (from
> http://www.tweakxp.com/tweak123951.aspx) to give the MFT a medium
> space allocation but it doesn't seem to have made a difference.
>
> I have never had to use XP system restore points as I back up whole
> partitions by making duplicates of them. So I don't mind if I have
> no space at all on any drive for system restore points.
>
> Svend
>
>
>
> ===========================================================
> Defragger data follows in case it helps.
>
>
> Volume 60_WinXP (C:) :
> Volume size = 6,793 MB
> Cluster size = 4 KB
> Used space = 4,663 MB
> Free space = 2,129 MB
> Percent free space = 31 %
> Defragmentation method = Max Disk Performance
>
> Fragmentation percentage
> Volume fragmentation = 0 %
> Data fragmentation = 0 %
>
> File fragmentation
> Total files = 44,872
> Average file size = 151 KB
> Total fragmented files = 0
> Total excess fragments = 0
> Average fragments per file = 1.00
>
> Paging file fragmentation
> Paging/Swap file size = 100 MB
> Total fragments = 1
>
> Directory fragmentation
> Total directories = 3,660
> Fragmented directories = 0
> Excess directory fragments = 0
>
> Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
> Total MFT size = 92,523 KB
> MFT records In Use = 48,607
> Percent MFT in use = 52 %
> Total MFT fragments = 2
>
> -----
>
> Volume 60_DATA [39GB] (D:) :
> Volume size = 39,942 MB
> Cluster size = 8 KB
> Used space = 25,030 MB
> Free space = 14,912 MB
> Percent free space = 37 %
>
> Fragmentation percentage
> Volume fragmentation = 0 %
> Data fragmentation = 0 %
>
> File fragmentation
> Total files = 58,992
> Average file size = 507 KB
> Total fragmented files = 0
> Total excess fragments = 0
> Average fragments per file = 1.00
>
> Paging file fragmentation
> Paging/Swap file size = 0 bytes
> Total fragments = 0
>
> Directory fragmentation
> Total directories = 5,018
> Fragmented directories = 0
> Excess directory fragments = 0
>
> Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
> Total MFT size = 125 MB
> MFT records In Use = 64,032
> Percent MFT in use = 49 %
> Total MFT fragments = 2
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
August 14, 2004 12:55:51 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

You may be confusing the MFT with system restore. The MFT is like a bigger
(maybe better) version of the FAT. It is used to keep track of where pieces
of files are on the disk. Unlike a FAT, it also keeps track of where the
files used to be, and that allows for some auto-repairs not possible with
FAT. For a number of reasons it is better if the MFT is contiguous, or few
pieces, instead of many fragments. Diskeeper can reduce the number of MFT
fragments via its boot-time defrag, but it rarely eliminates all of them.
That is OK/normal. The MFT usually has some extra space in it, maybe a lot
of extra space. That space is not really wasted, just reserved. It will be
the last place XP writes a file, only after all other sace has been used.
You do not need to do anything about the size of the MFT. Leave it alone!

If you feel that you are running out of space, buy a larger hard drive, or
install a seond hard and transfer your personal files to it. if you are
uncomfortable with opening the PC case, most shops that sell hard drives
will install them (in deckyop PCs), and will also transfer all files form
the old one to the new one.

As for system restore, that can eventually use several Gigs of space. You
need to decide whether having more than a few restore points is valueable.
In my case I delete all but the last restore point, via a right-click on C:
in windows explorer, properties, disk cleanup, more option, etc. However, I
do complete backups up the C: partition to an external USB disk before
installing new software, and periodically, even if ther have bee no changes
to the system. I retain these complete images for months, so I can
"restore" C: to last week, last month, or even last year in minutes. I do
this because system restore is less than 100% reliable, ad/or does not
backup all important files, and/or does not backup non-system files. Look
into a good ackup/restore program. Hint: Microsoft does not make one.

The system restore function
"Svend Cr" <nomail@mail.com> wrote in message
news:95455AD90FC0A471AE@127.0.0.1...
> Executive Software's Diskeeper 8 shows me two unexpected things
> about my XP Pro system:
>
> (1) The MFT on the system partition (called C) is in SIX parts.
>
> (2) On another NTFS partition (called D) there is a surprisingly
> large amount of space (12% of total partition space) reserved for
> system requirements. However I switched off XP's "system
> monitoring" for this drive long ago.
>
> Defragging with Diskeeper 8 from within XP and at boot-time does
> not get the MFT into fewer than 2 parts. And the defragging does
> not reduce the excess space allocated to the system.
>
> -----
>
> Is there a way I can see what system free space there is for use
> specifically by:
>
> (A) The MFT ?
> (B) System restore points in the System Volume Information folder ?
>
> Most importantly, how do I get the MFT into a single part and also
> give it enough space?
>
> I have used a reg hack (from
> http://www.tweakxp.com/tweak123951.aspx) to give the MFT a medium
> space allocation but it doesn't seem to have made a difference.
>
> I have never had to use XP system restore points as I back up whole
> partitions by making duplicates of them. So I don't mind if I have
> no space at all on any drive for system restore points.
>
> Svend
>
>
>
> ===========================================================
> Defragger data follows in case it helps.
>
>
> Volume 60_WinXP (C:) :
> Volume size = 6,793 MB
> Cluster size = 4 KB
> Used space = 4,663 MB
> Free space = 2,129 MB
> Percent free space = 31 %
> Defragmentation method = Max Disk Performance
>
> Fragmentation percentage
> Volume fragmentation = 0 %
> Data fragmentation = 0 %
>
> File fragmentation
> Total files = 44,872
> Average file size = 151 KB
> Total fragmented files = 0
> Total excess fragments = 0
> Average fragments per file = 1.00
>
> Paging file fragmentation
> Paging/Swap file size = 100 MB
> Total fragments = 1
>
> Directory fragmentation
> Total directories = 3,660
> Fragmented directories = 0
> Excess directory fragments = 0
>
> Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
> Total MFT size = 92,523 KB
> MFT records In Use = 48,607
> Percent MFT in use = 52 %
> Total MFT fragments = 2
>
> -----
>
> Volume 60_DATA [39GB] (D:) :
> Volume size = 39,942 MB
> Cluster size = 8 KB
> Used space = 25,030 MB
> Free space = 14,912 MB
> Percent free space = 37 %
>
> Fragmentation percentage
> Volume fragmentation = 0 %
> Data fragmentation = 0 %
>
> File fragmentation
> Total files = 58,992
> Average file size = 507 KB
> Total fragmented files = 0
> Total excess fragments = 0
> Average fragments per file = 1.00
>
> Paging file fragmentation
> Paging/Swap file size = 0 bytes
> Total fragments = 0
>
> Directory fragmentation
> Total directories = 5,018
> Fragmented directories = 0
> Excess directory fragments = 0
>
> Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
> Total MFT size = 125 MB
> MFT records In Use = 64,032
> Percent MFT in use = 49 %
> Total MFT fragments = 2
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
August 14, 2004 12:55:52 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

I just want to add, messing with the MFT is not a good idea. Make sure
that all of your data is backed up well because one wrong move and the
whole drive will show up as corrupt and you will lose all of your data.

If the drive is working properly, just leave it alone. Also, if you are
trying to figure out what files are taking up space, make sure to enable
Hidden and System Files ;) 

----
Nathan McNulty


Kelly wrote:
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=Executive...
>
Anonymous
August 14, 2004 5:20:28 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

> "Svend Cr" <nomail@mail.com> wrote in message
>
>> Executive Software's Diskeeper 8 shows me two unexpected
>> things about my XP Pro system:
>>
>> (1) The MFT on the system partition (called C) is in SIX
>> parts.
>>
>> (2) On another NTFS partition (called D) there is a
>> surprisingly large amount of space (12% of total partition
>> space) reserved for system requirements. However I switched
>> off XP's "system monitoring" for this drive long ago.
>>
>> Defragging with Diskeeper 8 from within XP and at boot-time
>> does not get the MFT into fewer than 2 parts. And the
>> defragging does not reduce the excess space allocated to the
>> system.
>>
>> -----
>>
>> Is there a way I can see what system free space there is for
>> use specifically by:
>>
>> (A) The MFT ?
>> (B) System restore points in the System Volume Information
>> folder ?
>>
>> Most importantly, how do I get the MFT into a single part and
>> also give it enough space?
>>
>> I have used a reg hack (from
>> http://www.tweakxp.com/tweak123951.aspx) to give the MFT a
>> medium space allocation but it doesn't seem to have made a
>> difference.
>>
>> I have never had to use XP system restore points as I back up
>> whole partitions by making duplicates of them. So I don't
>> mind if I have no space at all on any drive for system
>> restore points.


"Kelly" <kelly@mvps.org> wrote:
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=Executive...
> e+Diskeeper+8+Support
>


Hey! Of course I have tried that! :-) In fact I also use
Perfect Disk and neither site really goes into what I have asked
above.

The info I am asking is not specific to Diskeeper but has more to
do with NTFS.

If anyone else can advise then i would be grateful.
August 14, 2004 8:01:31 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Svend Cr wrote:

> Executive Software's Diskeeper 8 shows me two unexpected things
> about my XP Pro system:
>
> (1) The MFT on the system partition (called C) is in SIX parts.
>
> (2) On another NTFS partition (called D) there is a surprisingly
> large amount of space (12% of total partition space) reserved for
> system requirements. However I switched off XP's "system
> monitoring" for this drive long ago.
>
> Defragging with Diskeeper 8 from within XP and at boot-time does
> not get the MFT into fewer than 2 parts. And the defragging does
> not reduce the excess space allocated to the system.
>
> -----
>
> Is there a way I can see what system free space there is for use
> specifically by:
>
> (A) The MFT ?
> (B) System restore points in the System Volume Information folder ?
>
> Most importantly, how do I get the MFT into a single part and also
> give it enough space?
>
> I have used a reg hack (from
> http://www.tweakxp.com/tweak123951.aspx) to give the MFT a medium
> space allocation but it doesn't seem to have made a difference.
>
> I have never had to use XP system restore points as I back up whole
> partitions by making duplicates of them. So I don't mind if I have
> no space at all on any drive for system restore points.
>
> Svend
>
<snip>

You'll probably never get less than two MFT fragments. That's normal.
System restore does have it's place, to correct that occasional, though
hopefully rare, ooops in between imaging the drives. Reduce the amount
of space it uses, by going to system restore settings and make the
amount smaller. 500 mb will allow about 2 weeks worth of restore
points. That should be plenty though if you image regularly you can go
even smaller.
Anonymous
August 14, 2004 10:36:44 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Bob, you have written an interesting post.

Like you, I find that it is easier to image the whole partition
although I only have space to keep the last three images.

I have never had to use XP's restore and would far prefer to just
copy back an image of the whole partition.

As I understand it XP doesn't recover all file types. In fact,
today I switched off system restore for my system drive (it was
already off for all other drives) because I can't really see I will
want to use its features. Am I missing something perhaps?

However the starneg thing is that my third party compression
software (Diskeeper and Perfect Disk) report that about 12% of the
whole partition is still being reserved by XP for system uses
Presumably this is for the System Volume Information folder.

How can I free that valuable space up?

Svend



"Bob Harris" <rharris270[SPAM]@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> You may be confusing the MFT with system restore. The MFT is
> like a bigger (maybe better) version of the FAT. It is used
> to keep track of where pieces of files are on the disk.
> Unlike a FAT, it also keeps track of where the files used to
> be, and that allows for some auto-repairs not possible with
> FAT. For a number of reasons it is better if the MFT is
> contiguous, or few pieces, instead of many fragments.
> Diskeeper can reduce the number of MFT fragments via its
> boot-time defrag, but it rarely eliminates all of them. That
> is OK/normal. The MFT usually has some extra space in it,
> maybe a lot of extra space. That space is not really wasted,
> just reserved. It will be the last place XP writes a file,
> only after all other sace has been used. You do not need to do
> anything about the size of the MFT. Leave it alone!
>
> If you feel that you are running out of space, buy a larger
> hard drive, or install a seond hard and transfer your personal
> files to it.

> As for system restore, that can eventually use several Gigs of
> space. You need to decide whether having more than a few
> restore points is valueable. In my case I delete all but the
> last restore point, via a right-click on C: in windows
> explorer, properties, disk cleanup, more option, etc.
> However, I do complete backups up the C: partition to an
> external USB disk before installing new software, and
> periodically, even if ther have bee no changes to the system.
> I retain these complete images for months, so I can "restore"
> C: to last week, last month, or even last year in minutes. I
> do this because system restore is less than 100% reliable,
> and/or does not backup all important files, and/or does not
> backup non-system files. Look into a good backup/restore
> program. Hint: Microsoft does not make one.




> "Svend Cr" <nomail@mail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Executive Software's Diskeeper 8 shows me two unexpected
>> things about my XP Pro system:
>>
>> (1) The MFT on the system partition (called C) is in SIX
>> parts.
>>
>> (2) On another NTFS partition (called D) there is a
>> surprisingly large amount of space (12% of total partition
>> space) reserved for system requirements. However I switched
>> off XP's "system monitoring" for this drive long ago.
>>
>> Defragging with Diskeeper 8 from within XP and at boot-time
>> does not get the MFT into fewer than 2 parts. And the
>> defragging does not reduce the excess space allocated to the
>> system.
>>
>> -----
>>
>> Is there a way I can see what system free space there is for
>> use specifically by:
>>
>> (A) The MFT ?
>> (B) System restore points in the System Volume Information
>> folder ?
>>
>> Most importantly, how do I get the MFT into a single part and
>> also give it enough space?
>>
>> I have used a reg hack (from
>> http://www.tweakxp.com/tweak123951.aspx) to give the MFT a
>> medium space allocation but it doesn't seem to have made a
>> difference.
>>
>> I have never had to use XP system restore points as I back up
>> whole partitions by making duplicates of them. So I don't
>> mind if I have no space at all on any drive for system
>> restore points.
>>
>> Svend
>>
>>
>> ===========================================================
>> Defragger data follows in case it helps.
>>
>>
>> Volume 60_WinXP (C:) :
>> Volume size = 6,793 MB
>> Cluster size = 4 KB
>> Used space = 4,663 MB
>> Free space = 2,129 MB
>> Percent free space = 31 %
>> Defragmentation method = Max Disk Performance
>>
>> Fragmentation percentage
>> Volume fragmentation = 0 %
>> Data fragmentation = 0 %
>>
>> File fragmentation
>> Total files = 44,872
>> Average file size = 151 KB
>> Total fragmented files = 0
>> Total excess fragments = 0
>> Average fragments per file = 1.00
>>
>> Paging file fragmentation
>> Paging/Swap file size = 100 MB
>> Total fragments = 1
>>
>> Directory fragmentation
>> Total directories = 3,660
>> Fragmented directories = 0
>> Excess directory fragments = 0
>>
>> Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
>> Total MFT size = 92,523 KB
>> MFT records In Use = 48,607
>> Percent MFT in use = 52 %
>> Total MFT fragments = 2
>>
>> -----
>>
>> Volume 60_DATA [39GB] (D:) :
>> Volume size = 39,942 MB
>> Cluster size = 8 KB
>> Used space = 25,030 MB
>> Free space = 14,912 MB
>> Percent free space = 37 %
>>
>> Fragmentation percentage
>> Volume fragmentation = 0 %
>> Data fragmentation = 0 %
>>
>> File fragmentation
>> Total files = 58,992
>> Average file size = 507 KB
>> Total fragmented files = 0
>> Total excess fragments = 0
>> Average fragments per file = 1.00
>>
>> Paging file fragmentation
>> Paging/Swap file size = 0 bytes
>> Total fragments = 0
>>
>> Directory fragmentation
>> Total directories = 5,018
>> Fragmented directories = 0
>> Excess directory fragments = 0
>>
>> Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
>> Total MFT size = 125 MB
>> MFT records In Use = 64,032
>> Percent MFT in use = 49 %
>> Total MFT fragments = 2
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>>
Anonymous
August 16, 2004 7:41:58 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

This is absolutely normal. When an NTFS partition is created, 12% of the
disk is explicitly allotted to the MFT, and any writing of data into this
area is impossible. The MFT is used to hold the critical index structures
from which files on an NTFS volume are referenced. However, if there is
insufficient free space on the system then the MFT is automatically reduced
in size.

System restore files are stored in the system volume information folder
which by default, is given permissions only for the System. You can take
permissions for the folder if you're using XP Pro and see the space used and
the kind of files contained in it.

There's no particular way to reduce the size of the existing allocation to
the MFT. And why would you want to do this. As files increase, the MFT
will be broken into even more fragments later and will seriously degrade
system performance. Please see if this article helps you -
http://techxp.freewebpages.org


--
Replace the obvious with "hotmail"

"Svend Cr" <nomail@mail.com> wrote in message
news:95455AD90FC0A471AE@127.0.0.1...
> Executive Software's Diskeeper 8 shows me two unexpected things
> about my XP Pro system:
>
> (1) The MFT on the system partition (called C) is in SIX parts.
>
> (2) On another NTFS partition (called D) there is a surprisingly
> large amount of space (12% of total partition space) reserved for
> system requirements. However I switched off XP's "system
> monitoring" for this drive long ago.
>
> Defragging with Diskeeper 8 from within XP and at boot-time does
> not get the MFT into fewer than 2 parts. And the defragging does
> not reduce the excess space allocated to the system.
>
> -----
>
> Is there a way I can see what system free space there is for use
> specifically by:
>
> (A) The MFT ?
> (B) System restore points in the System Volume Information folder ?
>
> Most importantly, how do I get the MFT into a single part and also
> give it enough space?
>
> I have used a reg hack (from
> http://www.tweakxp.com/tweak123951.aspx) to give the MFT a medium
> space allocation but it doesn't seem to have made a difference.
>
> I have never had to use XP system restore points as I back up whole
> partitions by making duplicates of them. So I don't mind if I have
> no space at all on any drive for system restore points.
>
> Svend
>
>
>
> ===========================================================
> Defragger data follows in case it helps.
>
>
> Volume 60_WinXP (C:) :
> Volume size = 6,793 MB
> Cluster size = 4 KB
> Used space = 4,663 MB
> Free space = 2,129 MB
> Percent free space = 31 %
> Defragmentation method = Max Disk Performance
>
> Fragmentation percentage
> Volume fragmentation = 0 %
> Data fragmentation = 0 %
>
> File fragmentation
> Total files = 44,872
> Average file size = 151 KB
> Total fragmented files = 0
> Total excess fragments = 0
> Average fragments per file = 1.00
>
> Paging file fragmentation
> Paging/Swap file size = 100 MB
> Total fragments = 1
>
> Directory fragmentation
> Total directories = 3,660
> Fragmented directories = 0
> Excess directory fragments = 0
>
> Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
> Total MFT size = 92,523 KB
> MFT records In Use = 48,607
> Percent MFT in use = 52 %
> Total MFT fragments = 2
>
> -----
>
> Volume 60_DATA [39GB] (D:) :
> Volume size = 39,942 MB
> Cluster size = 8 KB
> Used space = 25,030 MB
> Free space = 14,912 MB
> Percent free space = 37 %
>
> Fragmentation percentage
> Volume fragmentation = 0 %
> Data fragmentation = 0 %
>
> File fragmentation
> Total files = 58,992
> Average file size = 507 KB
> Total fragmented files = 0
> Total excess fragments = 0
> Average fragments per file = 1.00
>
> Paging file fragmentation
> Paging/Swap file size = 0 bytes
> Total fragments = 0
>
> Directory fragmentation
> Total directories = 5,018
> Fragmented directories = 0
> Excess directory fragments = 0
>
> Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
> Total MFT size = 125 MB
> MFT records In Use = 64,032
> Percent MFT in use = 49 %
> Total MFT fragments = 2
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
August 16, 2004 7:41:59 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"DILIP" <dilipr@#*&!%l.com> wrote:

> Please see if this article helps you -
> http://techxp.freewebpages.org


My Adobe reader says it gets an error when trying to open the PDFs.

:-(
Anonymous
August 16, 2004 7:41:59 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"DILIP" <dilipr@#*&!%l.com> wrote in message
news:o mqk7l3gEHA.3548@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> This is absolutely normal. When an NTFS partition is created, 12% of the
> disk is explicitly allotted to the MFT, and any writing of data into this
> area is impossible. The MFT is used to hold the critical index structures
> from which files on an NTFS volume are referenced. However, if there is
> insufficient free space on the system then the MFT is automatically reduced
> in size.
>
That is the MFT zone. The actual MFT uses around 1% of drive space.

> System restore files are stored in the system volume information folder
> which by default, is given permissions only for the System. You can take
> permissions for the folder if you're using XP Pro and see the space used and
> the kind of files contained in it.
>
> There's no particular way to reduce the size of the existing allocation to
> the MFT. And why would you want to do this. As files increase, the MFT
> will be broken into even more fragments later and will seriously degrade
> system performance. Please see if this article helps you -
> http://techxp.freewebpages.org
>
You certainly can reduce the MFT zone. Simply increase volume usage to 90% and
the MFT zone reduces to 6%.

In principal the MFT zone should prevent MFT fragmentation even if it drops to
2%. However, NT 5 often moves the MFT zone from its original position, which
causes MFT fragmentation.
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 4:29:31 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

I tried downloading it again and it works on my side. Try re-installing
Adobe Acrobat Reader.

--
Replace the obvious with "hotmail"

"Svend Cr" <nomail@mail.com> wrote in message
news:95478FE84A90C471AE@127.0.0.1...
> "DILIP" <dilipr@#*&!%l.com> wrote:
>
>> Please see if this article helps you -
>> http://techxp.freewebpages.org
>
>
> My Adobe reader says it gets an error when trying to open the PDFs.
>
> :-(
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 5:35:30 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

You are repeating the same thing I have said in different words.

-Inline-

--
Replace the obvious with "hotmail"

"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote in message
news:cfqg4b01jp3@enews2.newsguy.com...
> "DILIP" <dilipr@#*&!%l.com> wrote in message
> news:o mqk7l3gEHA.3548@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> This is absolutely normal. When an NTFS partition is created, 12% of the
>> disk is explicitly allotted to the MFT, and any writing of data into this
>> area is impossible. The MFT is used to hold the critical index
>> structures
>> from which files on an NTFS volume are referenced. However, if there is
>> insufficient free space on the system then the MFT is automatically
>> reduced
>> in size.
>>
> That is the MFT zone. The actual MFT uses around 1% of drive space.

And I wrote

When an NTFS partition is created, 12% of the
>> disk is explicitly ***allotted*** to the MFT, and any writing of data
>> into this
>> area is impossible.

This space on the hard disk is not USED by the MFT, but till such a crucial
space requirement occurs, the MFT accolation *will remain* at 12%, even
though it is not being used by data. However, this space is included while
viewing the free space properties of the drive, since it is eminently
useable space.


>
>> System restore files are stored in the system volume information folder
>> which by default, is given permissions only for the System. You can take
>> permissions for the folder if you're using XP Pro and see the space used
>> and
>> the kind of files contained in it.
>>
>> There's no particular way to reduce the size of the existing allocation
>> to
>> the MFT. And why would you want to do this. As files increase, the MFT
>> will be broken into even more fragments later and will seriously degrade
>> system performance. Please see if this article helps you -
>> http://techxp.freewebpages.org
>>
> You certainly can reduce the MFT zone. Simply increase volume usage to 90%
> and
> the MFT zone reduces to 6%.

And I wrote

And why would you want to do this. As files increase, the MFT
>> will be broken into even more fragments later and will seriously degrade
>> system performance.

The very reason 12% of the disk is set aside for the MFT is to prevent its
later fragmentation, as the number of files on the drive increase. If free
space drops below 15% then the system takes back the alloted space for the
MFT. However, this is at the cost of MFT fragmentation which affects
performance.


>
> In principal the MFT zone should prevent MFT fragmentation even if it
> drops to
> 2%. However, NT 5 often moves the MFT zone from its original position,
> which
> causes MFT fragmentation.

AFAIK, the MFT zone will be adjusted only when free space becomes an issue

>
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 7:46:06 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:

> You certainly can reduce the MFT zone. Simply increase volume
> usage to 90% and the MFT zone reduces to 6%.

How do you increase volume usage? Is it done by setting quotas per
volume in XP?


> In principal the MFT zone should prevent MFT fragmentation
> even if it drops to 2%. However, NT 5 often moves the MFT zone
> from its original position, which causes MFT fragmentation.
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 7:46:07 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Svend Cr" <nomail@mail.com> wrote in message
news:9548A068043C5471AE@127.0.0.1...
> "Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:
>
> > You certainly can reduce the MFT zone. Simply increase volume
> > usage to 90% and the MFT zone reduces to 6%.
>
> How do you increase volume usage? Is it done by setting quotas per
> volume in XP?
>
Fill the volume with files.

Here is an example were a NTFS volume has a 0MB MFT zone, yet free space is
15%! It was almost full at one time.

NTFS Information Dump
Copyright (C) 1997 Mark Russinovich

Volume Size
-----------
Volume size : 5145 MB
Total sectors : 10538639
Total clusters : 1317329
Free clusters : 201896
Free space : 788 MB (15% of drive)

Allocation Size
----------------
Bytes per sector : 512
Bytes per cluster : 4096
Bytes per MFT record : 1024
Clusters per MFT record: 0

MFT Information
---------------
MFT size : 7 MB (0% of drive)
MFT start cluster : 4
MFT zone clusters : 24384 - 24576
MFT zone size : 0 MB (0% of drive)
MFT mirror start : 658664

Meta-Data files
---------------
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 7:46:07 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

In article <9548A068043C5471AE@127.0.0.1>, Svend Cr <nomail@mail.com> wrote:
>"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:
>
>> You certainly can reduce the MFT zone. Simply increase volume
>> usage to 90% and the MFT zone reduces to 6%.
>
>How do you increase volume usage? Is it done by setting quotas per
>volume in XP?
>
>
>> In principal the MFT zone should prevent MFT fragmentation
>> even if it drops to 2%. However, NT 5 often moves the MFT zone
>> from its original position, which causes MFT fragmentation.
>

Isn't volume usage related to system restore's. How is this related
to MFT size. The MFT file is for NTFS wat the FAT tables are for
FAT32. The index to the file names and other stuff.



--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m
Anonymous
August 18, 2004 12:10:08 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Does it specifically say that 12% of the partition is used for the MFT?
What about the Recycle Bin? By default it reserves 10% of each Partition.
I always turn it down to 1%. If you turn off system restore, it should no
longer allocate any space to be reserved, but who knows?


"Svend Cr" <nomail@mail.com> wrote in message
news:9545BD5573ECE471AE@127.0.0.1...
> Bob, you have written an interesting post.
>
> Like you, I find that it is easier to image the whole partition
> although I only have space to keep the last three images.
>
> I have never had to use XP's restore and would far prefer to just
> copy back an image of the whole partition.
>
> As I understand it XP doesn't recover all file types. In fact,
> today I switched off system restore for my system drive (it was
> already off for all other drives) because I can't really see I will
> want to use its features. Am I missing something perhaps?
>
> However the starneg thing is that my third party compression
> software (Diskeeper and Perfect Disk) report that about 12% of the
> whole partition is still being reserved by XP for system uses
> Presumably this is for the System Volume Information folder.
>
> How can I free that valuable space up?
>
> Svend
>
>
>
> "Bob Harris" <rharris270[SPAM]@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You may be confusing the MFT with system restore. The MFT is
>> like a bigger (maybe better) version of the FAT. It is used
>> to keep track of where pieces of files are on the disk.
>> Unlike a FAT, it also keeps track of where the files used to
>> be, and that allows for some auto-repairs not possible with
>> FAT. For a number of reasons it is better if the MFT is
>> contiguous, or few pieces, instead of many fragments.
>> Diskeeper can reduce the number of MFT fragments via its
>> boot-time defrag, but it rarely eliminates all of them. That
>> is OK/normal. The MFT usually has some extra space in it,
>> maybe a lot of extra space. That space is not really wasted,
>> just reserved. It will be the last place XP writes a file,
>> only after all other sace has been used. You do not need to do
>> anything about the size of the MFT. Leave it alone!
>>
>> If you feel that you are running out of space, buy a larger
>> hard drive, or install a seond hard and transfer your personal
>> files to it.
>
>> As for system restore, that can eventually use several Gigs of
>> space. You need to decide whether having more than a few
>> restore points is valueable. In my case I delete all but the
>> last restore point, via a right-click on C: in windows
>> explorer, properties, disk cleanup, more option, etc.
>> However, I do complete backups up the C: partition to an
>> external USB disk before installing new software, and
>> periodically, even if ther have bee no changes to the system.
>> I retain these complete images for months, so I can "restore"
>> C: to last week, last month, or even last year in minutes. I
>> do this because system restore is less than 100% reliable,
>> and/or does not backup all important files, and/or does not
>> backup non-system files. Look into a good backup/restore
>> program. Hint: Microsoft does not make one.
>
>
>
>
>> "Svend Cr" <nomail@mail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Executive Software's Diskeeper 8 shows me two unexpected
>>> things about my XP Pro system:
>>>
>>> (1) The MFT on the system partition (called C) is in SIX
>>> parts.
>>>
>>> (2) On another NTFS partition (called D) there is a
>>> surprisingly large amount of space (12% of total partition
>>> space) reserved for system requirements. However I switched
>>> off XP's "system monitoring" for this drive long ago.
>>>
>>> Defragging with Diskeeper 8 from within XP and at boot-time
>>> does not get the MFT into fewer than 2 parts. And the
>>> defragging does not reduce the excess space allocated to the
>>> system.
>>>
>>> -----
>>>
>>> Is there a way I can see what system free space there is for
>>> use specifically by:
>>>
>>> (A) The MFT ?
>>> (B) System restore points in the System Volume Information
>>> folder ?
>>>
>>> Most importantly, how do I get the MFT into a single part and
>>> also give it enough space?
>>>
>>> I have used a reg hack (from
>>> http://www.tweakxp.com/tweak123951.aspx) to give the MFT a
>>> medium space allocation but it doesn't seem to have made a
>>> difference.
>>>
>>> I have never had to use XP system restore points as I back up
>>> whole partitions by making duplicates of them. So I don't
>>> mind if I have no space at all on any drive for system
>>> restore points.
>>>
>>> Svend
>>>
>>>
>>> ===========================================================
>>> Defragger data follows in case it helps.
>>>
>>>
>>> Volume 60_WinXP (C:) :
>>> Volume size = 6,793 MB
>>> Cluster size = 4 KB
>>> Used space = 4,663 MB
>>> Free space = 2,129 MB
>>> Percent free space = 31 %
>>> Defragmentation method = Max Disk Performance
>>>
>>> Fragmentation percentage
>>> Volume fragmentation = 0 %
>>> Data fragmentation = 0 %
>>>
>>> File fragmentation
>>> Total files = 44,872
>>> Average file size = 151 KB
>>> Total fragmented files = 0
>>> Total excess fragments = 0
>>> Average fragments per file = 1.00
>>>
>>> Paging file fragmentation
>>> Paging/Swap file size = 100 MB
>>> Total fragments = 1
>>>
>>> Directory fragmentation
>>> Total directories = 3,660
>>> Fragmented directories = 0
>>> Excess directory fragments = 0
>>>
>>> Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
>>> Total MFT size = 92,523 KB
>>> MFT records In Use = 48,607
>>> Percent MFT in use = 52 %
>>> Total MFT fragments = 2
>>>
>>> -----
>>>
>>> Volume 60_DATA [39GB] (D:) :
>>> Volume size = 39,942 MB
>>> Cluster size = 8 KB
>>> Used space = 25,030 MB
>>> Free space = 14,912 MB
>>> Percent free space = 37 %
>>>
>>> Fragmentation percentage
>>> Volume fragmentation = 0 %
>>> Data fragmentation = 0 %
>>>
>>> File fragmentation
>>> Total files = 58,992
>>> Average file size = 507 KB
>>> Total fragmented files = 0
>>> Total excess fragments = 0
>>> Average fragments per file = 1.00
>>>
>>> Paging file fragmentation
>>> Paging/Swap file size = 0 bytes
>>> Total fragments = 0
>>>
>>> Directory fragmentation
>>> Total directories = 5,018
>>> Fragmented directories = 0
>>> Excess directory fragments = 0
>>>
>>> Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation
>>> Total MFT size = 125 MB
>>> MFT records In Use = 64,032
>>> Percent MFT in use = 49 %
>>> Total MFT fragments = 2
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>
Anonymous
August 19, 2004 1:14:48 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:

>Isn't volume usage related to system restore's. How is this related
>to MFT size. The MFT file is for NTFS wat the FAT tables are for
>FAT32. The index to the file names and other stuff.


The FAT table simply keeps track of disk space chains. No information
about the files represented by those chains is present in the FAT, all
of that is in the various directories. A directory entry contains a
pointer to the FAT which allows the file system to locate the file on
the disk.

The MFT is a *completely* different animal. It seems to contain
directory information for all files on the disk, and if the file is
small all the data will be there as well. I'm not positive where
detailed information on the disk location of the file being described
is kept.

AFAICT, Microsoft has not published a complete spec for NTFS as it has
for FAT and FAT32 , so nitty-gritty details are somewhat sparse. But
to equate the FAT and the MFT is to greatly oversimplify things.

--
Tim Slattery
MS MVP(DTS)
Slattery_T@bls.gov
!