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Arctic Silver 5 or Zalman White Thermal Grease

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March 17, 2005 11:00:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hi,

I'm in the process of replacing the stock Intel HSF with the Zalman
CNPS7000b all copper HSF. The processor is a P4 3.0c (overclocked at
3.3GHz) and is sitting on an ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe v2 motherboard.

What I'm wondering is which would be better to use; the included Zalman
White Thermal Grease or a one year old (sealed tightly-seems fine)
Arctic Silver 5? Can Arctic Silver 5 really go bad if kept in a zip bag?

Additionally, the BB size amount used (according to the Arctic Silver
instruction) in the center of the CPU doesn't mention pre-spreading
across the top of the CPU as the Zalman instruction indicate. Whichever
paste is used, would it be better to let the HSF spread the BB size
amount when clamped down or would it be better to pre-spread before
applying the HSF?

--

NEM
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 17, 2005 11:00:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

The Arctic Silver is far better than white thermal grease, and, yes, spread
it around.

--
DaveW



"NEM" <NoE-Mail@FakeAddress!.corn> wrote in message
news:Xns961C7A3BCFB07APNETA@news.supernews.com...
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm in the process of replacing the stock Intel HSF with the Zalman
> CNPS7000b all copper HSF. The processor is a P4 3.0c (overclocked at
> 3.3GHz) and is sitting on an ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe v2 motherboard.
>
> What I'm wondering is which would be better to use; the included Zalman
> White Thermal Grease or a one year old (sealed tightly-seems fine)
> Arctic Silver 5? Can Arctic Silver 5 really go bad if kept in a zip bag?
>
> Additionally, the BB size amount used (according to the Arctic Silver
> instruction) in the center of the CPU doesn't mention pre-spreading
> across the top of the CPU as the Zalman instruction indicate. Whichever
> paste is used, would it be better to let the HSF spread the BB size
> amount when clamped down or would it be better to pre-spread before
> applying the HSF?
>
> --
>
> NEM
>
>
March 18, 2005 2:18:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"NEM" <NoE-Mail@FakeAddress!.corn> wrote in message
news:Xns961C7A3BCFB07APNETA@news.supernews.com...
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm in the process of replacing the stock Intel HSF with the Zalman
> CNPS7000b all copper HSF. The processor is a P4 3.0c (overclocked at
> 3.3GHz) and is sitting on an ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe v2 motherboard.
>
> What I'm wondering is which would be better to use; the included Zalman
> White Thermal Grease or a one year old (sealed tightly-seems fine)
> Arctic Silver 5? Can Arctic Silver 5 really go bad if kept in a zip bag?
>
> Additionally, the BB size amount used (according to the Arctic Silver
> instruction) in the center of the CPU doesn't mention pre-spreading
> across the top of the CPU as the Zalman instruction indicate. Whichever
> paste is used, would it be better to let the HSF spread the BB size
> amount when clamped down or would it be better to pre-spread before
> applying the HSF?
>
> --
>
> NEM


The Artic Silver 5 is far superior to any generic or even name brand thermal
paste or silver compound. For eample I swapped out the generic silver
compound you can buy at any CompUsa over the counter with Artic Silver 5 for
an athlon XP 2000+ palomino.. it ran at 43C at idle with AS5 compared to 55C
at idle with the generic stuff. Or as another example it is keeping my
Athlon XP 3200+ Barton at a nice cool 31C and that's with a case temp of 30C
and a room temp of 23C (74F). as for it going bad.. never heard that. as for
the amount to put on and application put a BB sized drop on th eHeatsink
itself then put 1/4 of that on your CPU and spread it to an extremely thin
layer spread the remaining amount and spread it across the heatsink, about
as thick as plastic wrap, which BTW is an excellent thing to use to spread
it.
Related resources
March 18, 2005 2:18:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"Chuck" <chuck_les_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Weo_d.123069$pc5.106702@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>
>
> The Artic Silver 5 is far superior to any generic or even name brand
> thermal paste or silver compound.

How do you know? Have you tried them all?
March 18, 2005 6:44:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"JTS" <bme@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:JoCdnXKIwIHPrqffRVn-hg@giganews.com...
>
> "Chuck" <chuck_les_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Weo_d.123069$pc5.106702@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>>
>>
>> The Artic Silver 5 is far superior to any generic or even name brand
>> thermal paste or silver compound.
>
> How do you know? Have you tried them all?

It's impossible to try all thermal pastes, However I do know the results of
a 12C difference on exactly the same Processor and heatsink between standard
retail silver paste and the Artic silver 5 makes a huge statement for how
superior it is. especially since the 55C reading was just before shutting
down the system, then puling the heatsink and processor, cleaning both with
rubbing alchohol, applying AS5 and reinstalling the same processor and
heatsink, then powering it back up and letting it idle for 1/2 hour for a
temperature reading.. with a 43C reading a 12C drop from only changing the
thermal paste.
March 18, 2005 1:33:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hi Chuck,

On Mar 17 2005, Chuck wrote:

>> I'm in the process of replacing the stock Intel HSF with the Zalman
>> CNPS7000b all copper HSF. The processor is a P4 3.0c (overclocked at
>> 3.3GHz) and is sitting on an ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe v2 motherboard.
>>
>> What I'm wondering is which would be better to use; the included
>> Zalman White Thermal Grease or a one year old (sealed tightly-seems
>> fine) Arctic Silver 5? Can Arctic Silver 5 really go bad if kept in a
>> zip bag?
>>
>> Additionally, the BB size amount used (according to the Arctic Silver
>> instruction) in the center of the CPU doesn't mention pre-spreading
>> across the top of the CPU as the Zalman instruction indicate.
>> Whichever paste is used, would it be better to let the HSF spread the
>> BB size amount when clamped down or would it be better to pre-spread
>> before applying the HSF?
>
> The Artic Silver 5 is far superior to any generic or even name brand
> thermal paste or silver compound. For eample I swapped out the generic
> silver compound you can buy at any CompUsa over the counter with Artic
> Silver 5 for an athlon XP 2000+ palomino.. it ran at 43C at idle with
> AS5 compared to 55C at idle with the generic stuff. Or as another
> example it is keeping my Athlon XP 3200+ Barton at a nice cool 31C and
> that's with a case temp of 30C and a room temp of 23C (74F).

That's interesting that it dropped so much. I'm seeing nearly 60c under
a full load. Perhaps the Zalman 7000b will be the greatest benefit over
the stock Intel HSF, followed closely with the AS5. I'm hoping for
cooler and quieter operation.

> as for it going bad.. never heard that.

Me neither, but ya never know. <g>

> as for the amount to put on and application put a BB sized drop on th
> eHeatsink itself then put 1/4 of that on your CPU and spread it to an
> extremely thin layer spread the remaining amount and spread it across
> the heatsink, about as thick as plastic wrap, which BTW is an
> excellent thing to use to spread it.

Thanks for the tip. Any suggestions on removing the old AS5 between the
CPU and the old Intel HSF? I've thought about using rubbing alcohol, but
I can't find it pure enough so as to not leave a film.

Then again, I will be using the same AS5 I used before, so perhaps it
matters less. I have a Teflon knife, which I could use to scrap off the
excess, maybe wipe it down with a lint free cloth, then reapply.

--

NEM
March 18, 2005 1:48:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hi Larry Gagnon,

On Mar 17 2005, Larry Gagnon wrote:

>> I'm in the process of replacing the stock Intel HSF with the Zalman
>> CNPS7000b all copper HSF. The processor is a P4 3.0c (overclocked at
>> 3.3GHz) and is sitting on an ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe v2 motherboard.
>>
>> What I'm wondering is which would be better to use; the included
>> Zalman White Thermal Grease or a one year old (sealed tightly-seems
>> fine) Arctic Silver 5? Can Arctic Silver 5 really go bad if kept in a
>> zip bag?
>>
>> Additionally, the BB size amount used (according to the Arctic Silver
>> instruction) in the center of the CPU doesn't mention pre-spreading
>> across the top of the CPU as the Zalman instruction indicate.
>> Whichever paste is used, would it be better to let the HSF spread the
>> BB size amount when clamped down or would it be better to pre-spread
>> before applying the HSF?
>
> I wouldn't get too anal about it. Studies show that expensive thermal
> greases are rarely an improvement on regular inexpensive thermal heat
> sink compound which you can get at any electronics store for next to
> nothing. We have been thoroughly marketed to!

That might be true to some extent, but I already have the AS5 and
Zalmans' own (think Newmans' own salid dressing <G>) white thermal
compound. The time for marketing is past me, it's now just a choice
between the two that I have.

> At best you might get a 2 deg C improvement. Big deal!

Cool (no pun intended), that will put me back in the 50 Centigrade
region again. <G> Seriously, under a full load, I'm seeing 60c, so I'll
take even 2c lower wherever I can get it.

> I would pre-spread the paste. Then you know for certain its thin layer
> completely covers the die.

I'm concerned about bubbles, so I suppose putting it only on the CPU
would be best. Is that correct?

What about removal of the old AS5 from the CPU spreader?

--

NEM
March 18, 2005 1:50:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hi DaveW,

On Mar 17 2005, DaveW wrote:

> The Arctic Silver is far better than white thermal grease, and, yes,
> spread it around.

But only apply it to the CPU, correct?

--

NEM
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 18, 2005 3:31:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Why don't you just follow Arctic Silver's application and removal
instructions here:

http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions_...

"NEM" <NoE-Mail@FakeAddress!.corn> wrote in message
news:Xns961D1CD43BAA5APNETA@news.supernews.com...
>
> Hi DaveW,
>
> On Mar 17 2005, DaveW wrote:
>
>> The Arctic Silver is far better than white thermal grease, and, yes,
>> spread it around.
>
> But only apply it to the CPU, correct?
>
> --
>
> NEM
>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 18, 2005 3:52:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Chuck wrote:
> "JTS" <bme@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:JoCdnXKIwIHPrqffRVn-hg@giganews.com...
>
>>"Chuck" <chuck_les_@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:Weo_d.123069$pc5.106702@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>>
>>>
>>>The Artic Silver 5 is far superior to any generic or even name brand
>>>thermal paste or silver compound.
>>
>>How do you know? Have you tried them all?
>
>
> It's impossible to try all thermal pastes, However I do know the results of
> a 12C difference on exactly the same Processor and heatsink between standard
> retail silver paste and the Artic silver 5 makes a huge statement for how
> superior it is. especially since the 55C reading was just before shutting
> down the system, then puling the heatsink and processor, cleaning both with
> rubbing alchohol, applying AS5 and reinstalling the same processor and
> heatsink, then powering it back up and letting it idle for 1/2 hour for a
> temperature reading.. with a 43C reading a 12C drop from only changing the
> thermal paste.

So you changed:

- The installation method (assuming you hadn't just installed the
generic stuff).

- The amount of time that the paste had been on.

- The amount of time the machine had been run.

- The number of times you'd unsettled the paste by moving the machine.

- Probobaly some other things like fluff cleaning.

And you can decisively say that 12°C is the improvemnt in only the
thermal compound?

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
March 18, 2005 4:57:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"NEM" <NoE-Mail@FakeAddress!.corn> wrote in message
news:Xns961D1CD43BAA5APNETA@news.supernews.com...
>
> Hi DaveW,
>
> On Mar 17 2005, DaveW wrote:
>
>> The Arctic Silver is far better than white thermal grease, and, yes,
>> spread it around.
>
> But only apply it to the CPU, correct?
>
> --
No, to both cpu and the heatsink.

It's the AS5 on both mixing together that provides the themal link that
helps disipate the heat. Something should be clarified, thermal compound in
itself does nothing to lower CPU temps, thats the job of the HSF the thermal
compound simply makes it easier for the HSF to transfer heat from the
processor to the heatsink by filling in all the little grooves and
imperfections on the surfaces. I should add my 3200+ Barton is currently
running at 33C with a case temp of 32C with a room temp of 78F.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 18, 2005 5:12:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:52:28 +0000, Ben Pope wrote:
>
> And you can decisively say that 12°C is the improvemnt in only the
> thermal compound?

I've been doing systems since before the 8086 was invented and using
heat-sinks for several decades. It's my experience that most of the HSP is
about the same across the board, that it's almost always a difference in
installation procedures that cause variances. Most people don't have a
clue as to how to apply HSP.

--
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
March 18, 2005 5:21:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:ElB_d.1312$cC6.806@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:52:28 +0000, Ben Pope wrote:
>>
>> And you can decisively say that 12°C is the improvemnt in only the
>> thermal compound?
>
> I've been doing systems since before the 8086 was invented and using
> heat-sinks for several decades. It's my experience that most of the HSP is
> about the same across the board, that it's almost always a difference in
> installation procedures that cause variances. Most people don't have a
> clue as to how to apply HSP.
>

True, in fact thermal paste is definately a case where less is more, use as
little as possible and get it as thin as possible on both surfaces. too
thick and the thermal paste can act as an insulator, causing the heatsink
not to work as well as it should.
>
March 19, 2005 2:11:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

> This one though it seems to start as a serious comparison falls off when
the
> author states he applied the thermal paste with his finger. anyone with
any
> brains knows that the oils in human skin contaminates any thermal compound
> thereby reducing it's ability to transfer heat, prefered way is to use a
> razor blade, edge of a card or even a finger covered in plastic wrap, but
> never direct contact with human skin.

Apparently you didn't read the review very thoroughly, the author did one
specific test of a poorly installed layer of thermal paste done with a bare
finger to compare it to the others, which he applied with metal blade.

One quote I did find interesting in the article, however:

" Both Nanotherms give you two grams of goop in a syringe with a nifty
shrouded tip that ought to reduce the amount of goop you get on your
fingers, and then transfer to your nose/forehead/fly zipper. Both Nanotherms
also have the usual list of good qualities. The only unusual thing on the
list, from the point of view of PC users, is the claim that they allow
"Fast, Easy Cleanup - No Mess". That's an attractive quality in a thermal
goop, let me tell you; I've gone through quite a lot of naphtha (it's useful
for so many things!) cleaning goop off CPU-related paraphernalia, and off
bits of myself. "

Personally I have installed hundreds of HSFs and other cooling
paraphernalia, and I've never gotten the slightest bit of HSC on my clothes,
skin or much of anything but the CPU, HS, blade and the paper towel I wipe
the blade on.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 19, 2005 2:25:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Can't be true, too many sites have tested products such as the Arctic
Silver and Shin-Etsu MicroSi products to be vastly superior when installed
in accordance with proper procedure as posted on the Arctic Silver website
and when no fingerprints or other contamination exists.

High performance thermal materials often improve over a curing time where
they form a type of structural and chemical bond between the CPU and HSF
surfaces.

One can argue all that they want that all thermal compounds are the same,
but too many sites (sorry, I have read them but I have not kept the links
to them, do your own research) have "proven" AS and S-E M to be superior,
and worth the tiny expenditure that they require.

You have to understand that products like Shin-Etsu and Arctic Silver are
designed by teams of scientific minds using chemical and other engineering
to accomplish the ideal particle composition, particle size, particle
variation, and so on. Too many Overclockers are proving to themselves that
better results in thermal conductivity can be had through AS or S-E for me
to believe that it doesn't make a difference.

ALSO, Cheap thermal compounds like you find at Radio Shack tend to dry up
and turn crumbly and cannot hold up to the temps that today's CPUs pass
out. So, IMHO, you cannot tell me that I shouldn't use my syringes of both
Shin-Etsu MicroSi and Arctic Silver Ceramique. They didn't cost that much
and they work fabulous in numerous ways.

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:12:52 GMT, Leythos wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:52:28 +0000, Ben Pope wrote:
>>
>> And you can decisively say that 12°C is the improvemnt in only the
>> thermal compound?
>
> I've been doing systems since before the 8086 was invented and using
> heat-sinks for several decades. It's my experience that most of the HSP is
> about the same across the board, that it's almost always a difference in
> installation procedures that cause variances. Most people don't have a
> clue as to how to apply HSP.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 19, 2005 3:01:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Homer, thanks for saying what I was about to. Follow the AS instructions,
TO THE LETTER!

Chuck, spread it, but don't apply it in any way that would let any of it
drip where electrical connections are because then it will cause a short.
Use a VERY thin application, and YES, transferring lots of heat is great,
but won't make much difference if a stock heat sink is used. It is using a
high performance heat sink-fan paired *with* AS or S-E that makes the
difference.

Here is part of a reply that I got from the people at Shin-Etsu MicroSi
about use of their compound:

"It is very difficult to say which product you have in hand.
As for cleaning, we can suggest Toluene, Acetone and IPA.
As for newer products, we have an MOQ of 50-75units.

As for how often you should change the material, I would say once you
notice a change in the performance of your computer, it might be one of
the areas to consider."

I had asked them which compound I got because it didn't have a label on it.
So they recommend Toluene, Acetone, and IPA (what that is I don't know) to
thouroughly clean the stuff.

Hope that I have helped.


On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:57:03 GMT, Chuck wrote:

> "NEM" <NoE-Mail@FakeAddress!.corn> wrote in message
> news:Xns961D1CD43BAA5APNETA@news.supernews.com...
>>
>> Hi DaveW,
>>
>> On Mar 17 2005, DaveW wrote:
>>
>>> The Arctic Silver is far better than white thermal grease, and, yes,
>>> spread it around.
>>
>> But only apply it to the CPU, correct?
>>
>> --
> No, to both cpu and the heatsink.
>
> It's the AS5 on both mixing together that provides the themal link that
> helps disipate the heat. Something should be clarified, thermal compound in
> itself does nothing to lower CPU temps, thats the job of the HSF the thermal
> compound simply makes it easier for the HSF to transfer heat from the
> processor to the heatsink by filling in all the little grooves and
> imperfections on the surfaces. I should add my 3200+ Barton is currently
> running at 33C with a case temp of 32C with a room temp of 78F.
March 19, 2005 3:12:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"signmeuptoo" <signmeuptoo_no_spam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4pbebitpkcmd$.b8jysxywmjrb.dlg@40tude.net...
> Homer, thanks for saying what I was about to. Follow the AS instructions,
> TO THE LETTER!
>
> Chuck, spread it, but don't apply it in any way that would let any of it
> drip where electrical connections are because then it will cause a short.
> Use a VERY thin application, and YES, transferring lots of heat is great,
> but won't make much difference if a stock heat sink is used. It is using
> a
> high performance heat sink-fan paired *with* AS or S-E that makes the
> difference.
>

Very true I have a Thermaltake Volcano 10+ Heatsink (all copper) with the
stock fan removed (was 70mm 10 mm maybe 20- 25 cfm ran at 3000 rpm) replaced
with a 70mm x 25 mm 7000 rpm 45 cfm Fan. And of course AS5, so it keeps
itself nice and cool. In fact right now it's at 29C, with MB temp of 28C and
a case temp of 75.5 F (24C). Not bad for a 3200+ Barton.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 19, 2005 3:41:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 23:25:39 +0000, signmeuptoo wrote:
>
> Can't be true, too many sites have tested products such as the Arctic
> Silver and Shin-Etsu MicroSi products to be vastly superior when installed
> in accordance with proper procedure as posted on the Arctic Silver website
> and when no fingerprints or other contamination exists.
>
> High performance thermal materials often improve over a curing time where
> they form a type of structural and chemical bond between the CPU and HSF
> surfaces.
>
> One can argue all that they want that all thermal compounds are the same,
> but too many sites (sorry, I have read them but I have not kept the links
> to them, do your own research) have "proven" AS and S-E M to be superior,
> and worth the tiny expenditure that they require.

Actually, since most of them don't dry out in the first year, it's a close
call for most testing. Sure, they lose some of their gunk, but as thin as
the layer is (as it should be) it's not that big a difference. Don't
believe everything you read, do some testing yourself - I have.

> You have to understand that products like Shin-Etsu and Arctic Silver are
> designed by teams of scientific minds using chemical and other engineering
> to accomplish the ideal particle composition, particle size, particle
> variation, and so on. Too many Overclockers are proving to themselves that
> better results in thermal conductivity can be had through AS or S-E for me
> to believe that it doesn't make a difference.

I love AS, and I use it a lot, also use the stuff that Intel sends with
their CPU's in the syringe, it more about properly applying it than the
small differences in the composition at the two ends - meaning that cheap
is always low quality and expensive is always high quality, and that cheap
means less heat transfer and more expensive means better transfer. Now, if
you have some nice AS5 and apply it wrong it could yield worse results
than properly applied cheap HSP.

> ALSO, Cheap thermal compounds like you find at Radio Shack tend to dry up
> and turn crumbly and cannot hold up to the temps that today's CPUs pass
> out. So, IMHO, you cannot tell me that I shouldn't use my syringes of both
> Shin-Etsu MicroSi and Arctic Silver Ceramique. They didn't cost that much
> and they work fabulous in numerous ways.

I never said you should or should not use anything, in fact, if you read
my post, you would see that I said that most of them are the same and that
the only problem is people not applying it properly.

Oh, they only work in one way - to create a better conduction of heat
between the CPU and the Heat Sink. Thinner is much better as it really
only needs to fill the micro-grain differences in the machined surfaces,
if the HS has a uneven surface you should refinish it or get a new one.


> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:12:52 GMT, Leythos wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:52:28 +0000, Ben Pope wrote:
>>>
>>> And you can decisively say that 12°C is the improvemnt in only the
>>> thermal compound?
>>
>> I've been doing systems since before the 8086 was invented and using
>> heat-sinks for several decades. It's my experience that most of the HSP is
>> about the same across the board, that it's almost always a difference in
>> installation procedures that cause variances. Most people don't have a
>> clue as to how to apply HSP.


--
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 19, 2005 3:41:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:ZyK_d.2205$rL3.2000@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 23:25:39 +0000, signmeuptoo wrote:
>>
>> Can't be true, too many sites have tested products such as the Arctic
>> Silver and Shin-Etsu MicroSi products to be vastly superior when
>> installed
>> in accordance with proper procedure as posted on the Arctic Silver
>> website
>> and when no fingerprints or other contamination exists.
>>
>> High performance thermal materials often improve over a curing time where
>> they form a type of structural and chemical bond between the CPU and HSF
>> surfaces.
>>
>> One can argue all that they want that all thermal compounds are the same,
>> but too many sites (sorry, I have read them but I have not kept the links
>> to them, do your own research) have "proven" AS and S-E M to be superior,
>> and worth the tiny expenditure that they require.
>
> Actually, since most of them don't dry out in the first year, it's a close
> call for most testing. Sure, they lose some of their gunk, but as thin as
> the layer is (as it should be) it's not that big a difference. Don't
> believe everything you read, do some testing yourself - I have.
>
>> You have to understand that products like Shin-Etsu and Arctic Silver are
>> designed by teams of scientific minds using chemical and other
>> engineering
>> to accomplish the ideal particle composition, particle size, particle
>> variation, and so on. Too many Overclockers are proving to themselves
>> that
>> better results in thermal conductivity can be had through AS or S-E for
>> me
>> to believe that it doesn't make a difference.
>
> I love AS, and I use it a lot, also use the stuff that Intel sends with
> their CPU's in the syringe, it more about properly applying it than the
> small differences in the composition at the two ends - meaning that cheap
> is always low quality and expensive is always high quality, and that cheap
> means less heat transfer and more expensive means better transfer. Now, if
> you have some nice AS5 and apply it wrong it could yield worse results
> than properly applied cheap HSP.
>

I just purchased a new Intel boxed processor and I noticed they no longer
come with a
syringe with thermal paste. There now is a pad of paste on the bottom of
the HSF.
I assume this is ok to use as I did!! Unfortunately the new processor was
DOA and have
to send it back for replacement:( 

Gary








>> ALSO, Cheap thermal compounds like you find at Radio Shack tend to dry up
>> and turn crumbly and cannot hold up to the temps that today's CPUs pass
>> out. So, IMHO, you cannot tell me that I shouldn't use my syringes of
>> both
>> Shin-Etsu MicroSi and Arctic Silver Ceramique. They didn't cost that
>> much
>> and they work fabulous in numerous ways.
>
> I never said you should or should not use anything, in fact, if you read
> my post, you would see that I said that most of them are the same and that
> the only problem is people not applying it properly.
>
> Oh, they only work in one way - to create a better conduction of heat
> between the CPU and the Heat Sink. Thinner is much better as it really
> only needs to fill the micro-grain differences in the machined surfaces,
> if the HS has a uneven surface you should refinish it or get a new one.
>
>
>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:12:52 GMT, Leythos wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:52:28 +0000, Ben Pope wrote:
>>>>
>>>> And you can decisively say that 12°C is the improvemnt in only the
>>>> thermal compound?
>>>
>>> I've been doing systems since before the 8086 was invented and using
>>> heat-sinks for several decades. It's my experience that most of the HSP
>>> is
>>> about the same across the board, that it's almost always a difference in
>>> installation procedures that cause variances. Most people don't have a
>>> clue as to how to apply HSP.
>
>
> --
> spam999free@rrohio.com
> remove 999 in order to email me
>
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 19, 2005 3:43:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 23:53:07 +0000, signmeuptoo wrote:
>
> why have I seen so many sites revealing at least 12 degree
> Centigrade improvements over cheap off the shelf thermal compounds? There
> IS a big difference.

Because there are two ends to the market - there is the cheap stuff and
the expensive stuff, cheaper means less heat xfer (in general) and
expensive means more heat xfer.

Improperly applied, the best HSP on the market is not as effective as the
cheapest HSP that's properly applied.


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March 19, 2005 6:49:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

IPA = IsoPropyl Alcohol ?

"signmeuptoo" <signmeuptoo_no_spam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4pbebitpkcmd$.b8jysxywmjrb.dlg@40tude.net...
> Homer, thanks for saying what I was about to. Follow the AS instructions,
> TO THE LETTER!
>
> Chuck, spread it, but don't apply it in any way that would let any of it
> drip where electrical connections are because then it will cause a short.
> Use a VERY thin application, and YES, transferring lots of heat is great,
> but won't make much difference if a stock heat sink is used. It is using
> a
> high performance heat sink-fan paired *with* AS or S-E that makes the
> difference.
>
> Here is part of a reply that I got from the people at Shin-Etsu MicroSi
> about use of their compound:
>
> "It is very difficult to say which product you have in hand.
> As for cleaning, we can suggest Toluene, Acetone and IPA.
> As for newer products, we have an MOQ of 50-75units.
>
> As for how often you should change the material, I would say once you
> notice a change in the performance of your computer, it might be one of
> the areas to consider."
>
> I had asked them which compound I got because it didn't have a label on
> it.
> So they recommend Toluene, Acetone, and IPA (what that is I don't know) to
> thouroughly clean the stuff.
>
> Hope that I have helped.
>
>
> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:57:03 GMT, Chuck wrote:
>
>> "NEM" <NoE-Mail@FakeAddress!.corn> wrote in message
>> news:Xns961D1CD43BAA5APNETA@news.supernews.com...
>>>
>>> Hi DaveW,
>>>
>>> On Mar 17 2005, DaveW wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Arctic Silver is far better than white thermal grease, and, yes,
>>>> spread it around.
>>>
>>> But only apply it to the CPU, correct?
>>>
>>> --
>> No, to both cpu and the heatsink.
>>
>> It's the AS5 on both mixing together that provides the themal link that
>> helps disipate the heat. Something should be clarified, thermal compound
>> in
>> itself does nothing to lower CPU temps, thats the job of the HSF the
>> thermal
>> compound simply makes it easier for the HSF to transfer heat from the
>> processor to the heatsink by filling in all the little grooves and
>> imperfections on the surfaces. I should add my 3200+ Barton is currently
>> running at 33C with a case temp of 32C with a room temp of 78F.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 19, 2005 8:34:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Sounds about right Dan. I will ask a chemistry major I know, she only went
through two years, but maybe she will know... In any event, that makes
sense, good one!

Gosh, if only I had the cash, I'd do a lot of testing to compare products
and build an authoritive site. Tom's and Anand aren't really doing a good
enough job. Heck, the test power supplies, but only for efficiency. They
don't do holistic enough tests and they don't control outside variables
enough.

Oh if only I had $100K I'd start something more complete. These other
sites refuse to buy products, so they only test what they get in. That is
no way to really give us the full scoop of what is out there!

Someone with some time and money and lab conditions needs to do some
testing. A clean room with a controlled humidity and temperature would be
perfect for testing the thermal greases and pads. And that is another
thing, no one is testing the pads to compare!!!

Blast it all!

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 03:49:14 GMT, DanO wrote:

> IPA = IsoPropyl Alcohol ?
>
> "signmeuptoo" <signmeuptoo_no_spam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:4pbebitpkcmd$.b8jysxywmjrb.dlg@40tude.net...
>> Homer, thanks for saying what I was about to. Follow the AS instructions,
>> TO THE LETTER!
>>
>> Chuck, spread it, but don't apply it in any way that would let any of it
>> drip where electrical connections are because then it will cause a short.
>> Use a VERY thin application, and YES, transferring lots of heat is great,
>> but won't make much difference if a stock heat sink is used. It is using
>> a
>> high performance heat sink-fan paired *with* AS or S-E that makes the
>> difference.
>>
>> Here is part of a reply that I got from the people at Shin-Etsu MicroSi
>> about use of their compound:
>>
>> "It is very difficult to say which product you have in hand.
>> As for cleaning, we can suggest Toluene, Acetone and IPA.
>> As for newer products, we have an MOQ of 50-75units.
>>
>> As for how often you should change the material, I would say once you
>> notice a change in the performance of your computer, it might be one of
>> the areas to consider."
>>
>> I had asked them which compound I got because it didn't have a label on
>> it.
>> So they recommend Toluene, Acetone, and IPA (what that is I don't know) to
>> thouroughly clean the stuff.
>>
>> Hope that I have helped.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:57:03 GMT, Chuck wrote:
>>
>>> "NEM" <NoE-Mail@FakeAddress!.corn> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns961D1CD43BAA5APNETA@news.supernews.com...
>>>>
>>>> Hi DaveW,
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 17 2005, DaveW wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Arctic Silver is far better than white thermal grease, and, yes,
>>>>> spread it around.
>>>>
>>>> But only apply it to the CPU, correct?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>> No, to both cpu and the heatsink.
>>>
>>> It's the AS5 on both mixing together that provides the themal link that
>>> helps disipate the heat. Something should be clarified, thermal compound
>>> in
>>> itself does nothing to lower CPU temps, thats the job of the HSF the
>>> thermal
>>> compound simply makes it easier for the HSF to transfer heat from the
>>> processor to the heatsink by filling in all the little grooves and
>>> imperfections on the surfaces. I should add my 3200+ Barton is currently
>>> running at 33C with a case temp of 32C with a room temp of 78F.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 19, 2005 3:50:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 19:16:30 -0600, GLeger wrote:
>
> I just purchased a new Intel boxed processor and I noticed they no
> longer come with a syringe with thermal paste. There now is a pad of
> paste on the bottom of the HSF.
> I assume this is ok to use as I did

The Retail Xeon ones I ordered last month came with it, did you order
retail or OEM?

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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 21, 2005 1:54:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 23:53:07 GMT, signmeuptoo
<signmeuptoo_no_spam@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Then, Larry, why have I seen so many sites revealing at least 12 degree
>Centigrade improvements over cheap off the shelf thermal compounds?

I think you'll have to offer a link to that claim ;) 

Sounds like extreme bullshit.
!