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P4C800E-Deluxe USB Ports have stopped working

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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 2, 2005 7:11:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

My board is less than 6 months old, yet today I plugged in my camera
and nothing happened. I tired all the ports and nothing workd. I then
tried it in my USB PCI board and it works fine.

I checked the Device Manager and everyhting looks okay. Is there any
way to test and see if it is a Motherboard problem.

I also deleted all the USB entries in Hardware Manager and rebooted
letting windows find them all again. Still mothing.

Any ideas. Has ASUS had these problems before ?

Very frustrating, since I heavely rely on this computer for my
business.

Thanks
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 2, 2005 8:34:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Can you let me know Paul's FROM so I can search for this topic.

Thanks
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 2, 2005 8:34:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Can you let me know Paul's FROM so I can search for this topic.

Thanks
Related resources
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 2, 2005 10:54:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

There has been a lot of postings the last few weeks on this problem.
Paul has given a very detailed explaination of what might be going
wrong - your ICH5 burn -out. Please scan messages over the last ten
days.

On 2 May 2005 15:11:57 -0700, cold_canuck@hotmail.com wrote:

>My board is less than 6 months old, yet today I plugged in my camera
>and nothing happened. I tired all the ports and nothing workd. I then
>tried it in my USB PCI board and it works fine.
>
>I checked the Device Manager and everyhting looks okay. Is there any
>way to test and see if it is a Motherboard problem.
>
>I also deleted all the USB entries in Hardware Manager and rebooted
>letting windows find them all again. Still mothing.
>
>Any ideas. Has ASUS had these problems before ?
>
>Very frustrating, since I heavely rely on this computer for my
>business.
>
>Thanks
May 2, 2005 11:10:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Per cold_canuck@hotmail.com:
>My board is less than 6 months old, yet today I plugged in my camera
>and nothing happened. I tired all the ports and nothing workd. I then
>tried it in my USB PCI board and it works fine.
>
>Very frustrating, since I heavely rely on this computer for my
>business.

You're making me more and more sure that my practice of taking images of the
system drive periodically an religiously noting the changes performed between
images is a Good Thing.
--
PeteCresswell
May 3, 2005 1:03:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <1115076845.955174.177560@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
cold_canuck@hotmail.com wrote:

> Can you let me know Paul's FROM so I can search for this topic.
>
> Thanks

I can save you the trouble :-)

If your computer boots, it has not suffered the latchup
problem. This is a problem when alerting people about
one issue - there is a tendency to lump all the faults
into the same bucket. In this case, your computer is
working, so there is no reason to panic. (While I suppose
latchup could damage only a portion of the chip, it is a
strange coincidence if only the USB ports are affected.
If the Southbridge was partially damaged, I would expect
to see a whole raft of different interfaces damaged, and some
bizarre behavior when the computer boots.)

When testing USB ports here, I like to use a USB mouse
that has a nice bright red LED inside it. I use that
LED to determine if the mouse is getting power. The
motherboard has the ability to switch the power on and
off, and something related to the switch is one possible
source of a loss of power. (The "root" entry in the
Device Manager, manages power for the USB port.)

The second thing, is USB ports usually are protected by a
Polyfuse. That is a fuse that opens when it gets hot from
too much current. Once it is given a chance to cool off,
it conducts electricity again. Polyfuses seem to be
pretty reliable, but occasionally there might be a failure
of the fuse.

A more likely cause of a USB power loss, is the USBPWxx power
header. That is a header on the motherboard that allows the
user to select +5V or +5VSB to run the USB ports. The
purpose of +5VSB, is to allow a USB device to remain powered
while the computer sleeps - such a USB device can then be
used to wake the computer. So, if the motherboard supports
waking from USB keyboard, you set the USBPWxx header to
+5VSB, so the keyboard gets power while the computer sleeps.

If the jumper that fits the USBPWxx header is removed
completely, then neither +5V nor +5VSB flows to the two
USB ports controlled by that header. You might check and
see if the jumper is present - then reseat it, to make sure
it is making good contact.

Finally, there are the registry and the CMOS to consider.
By deleting the entries in Device Manager, you've
already refreshed the registry and the Device Manager.

That leaves clearing the CMOS. I'm not aware of any
great store of documentation over exactly what info is
stored in the CMOS. But when a user has obscure problems
that defy logic, clearing the CMOS is something you
can try, perhaps as the last step before pulling the
motherboard and returning it under RMA. Clearing the
CMOS usually requires access to the CLRTC header, and
if you look in section 2.7 "Jumpers" in the manual,
you'll see a procedure listed there. The most important
step in clearing the CMOS, is _unplug_ the computer.
That prevents +5VSB from damaging the CMOS power
circuitry when you use the CLRTC jumper.

Before clearing the CMOS, make notes on paper, of any
custom BIOS settings you are using. You will need to
re-enter the values after the CMOS clearing procedure
is completed.

HTH,
Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 3, 2005 4:42:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Thanks Paul,
I just went and bought an optical mouse to test the USB ports for
power. Alas I plugged it into each port and the mouse was glowing.
Since we can now be assured that power is getting to the ports I will
try the last item on the list "clearing the CMOS", and see if it has an
effect.

Question ? If the ports are obviously receiving power would this not
dictate that they are functioning correctly and that it may be
something else casuing this problem ?

Thanks...
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 3, 2005 6:12:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Well I just completed the Final test that Paul suggested. Reset the
Cmos. Result USB still not working. I even took out every add in card
iht the PC out of desperation. Still no go. The USB ports are only
useful now to use 1 of those Nice little USB Lights. Like you said Jim,
it finds the controller and everything but the ports just don't
recognize any USB that gets plugged into it.

Jim Gibson wrote:
> Forget it.
> Your USB ports are toast.
> They will even show up in device mangager. You are even able to
uninstall
> the driver for the USB universal host controllers, scan for hardware
changes
> and the system will find your USB ports again. But try to get
anything to
> be recognized through any of the ports is impossible.
> See my post above.
>
> JG
>
> <cold_canuck@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1115149361.617571.300720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> > Thanks Paul,
> > I just went and bought an optical mouse to test the USB ports for
> > power. Alas I plugged it into each port and the mouse was glowing.
> > Since we can now be assured that power is getting to the ports I
will
> > try the last item on the list "clearing the CMOS", and see if it
has an
> > effect.
> >
> > Question ? If the ports are obviously receiving power would this
not
> > dictate that they are functioning correctly and that it may be
> > something else casuing this problem ?
> >
> > Thanks...
> >
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 3, 2005 8:22:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Forget it.
Your USB ports are toast.
They will even show up in device mangager. You are even able to uninstall
the driver for the USB universal host controllers, scan for hardware changes
and the system will find your USB ports again. But try to get anything to
be recognized through any of the ports is impossible.
See my post above.

JG

<cold_canuck@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115149361.617571.300720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks Paul,
> I just went and bought an optical mouse to test the USB ports for
> power. Alas I plugged it into each port and the mouse was glowing.
> Since we can now be assured that power is getting to the ports I will
> try the last item on the list "clearing the CMOS", and see if it has an
> effect.
>
> Question ? If the ports are obviously receiving power would this not
> dictate that they are functioning correctly and that it may be
> something else casuing this problem ?
>
> Thanks...
>
May 5, 2005 12:59:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Per Paul:
> my recommendation....

What I've gotten out of thread so far is that for my P4P800-E Delux (ICH5R),
"Exposing MB USB To Outside World = A Bad Thing".

I'm assuming that no such problems have become manifest re/the FireWire ports
(even so, I use a separate FireWire card anyhow... but maybe I'll want to plug
some device into the front panel)

Going on that, I disconnected my Antec Sonata's front panel USB cable,
disconnected the USB cable shared by the game port on the back, and taped over
the motherboard USB ports on the back panel.

Then I supplemented the existing 5-slot PCI card with another one I had laying
around.

All seems tb well, but the back of my computer is close to a wall; so it would
be convenient to have those two front-panel USP ports available.

Each of the PCI cards has a single internal port available, so it seems like
it's just a matter of getting the right wires hooked up.

I guess the brass ring would be a little Y-splitter that plugged directly into
Antec's cable and had a couple of male USB connectors on it.

Anybody know of such a thing?

Barring that, maybe a pinout diagram for Antec's cable and a pinout diagram for
a standard USB-2 cable.... so I can make my own "Y" connector?

--
PeteCresswell
May 5, 2005 1:46:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Wed, 4 May 2005 09:43:51 -0400, "Jim Gibson" <jdgibson@myob.com>
wrote:

> Since this appears to be a very broad problem, I don't know if you
> can point to specific motherboards as being particularly vunerable.
> So far I have had personal experience with USB problems with
> ASUS P4P800-SE, P4R800-VM & P4S800-VM.
> And have heard about dead USB ports on many other socket 478
> and socket A boards.
> The front USB ports are always mentioned as where most problems originate.
> My emails to Antec regarding front USB ports on their cases revealed a
> likely cause.
> The pins on the USB case cable must match with ASUS specs.
> Specifically the wired NC (no connect) pin 10.
> I further think that as most PC's are kept in carpeted bedrooms and
> basements, the likeyhood of static discharge zapping the board
> through a USB port is possible.


And this could make problems
http://users.tkk.fi/~then/mytexts/ungrounded_pc.html

I got a P4C800-E Deluxe Rev.2 without any problem so far (10 month).
My computer is properly grounded and now I'm VERY careful about
static discharge (ESD) when connecting things to the computer.
May 5, 2005 1:49:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Wed, 04 May 2005 11:27:01 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

> I see no reason to worry about pin 10 on the Asus header,
> but I am concerned in general, with continuing to use the
> USB headers on ICH4/ICH5/ICH5R based motherboards. As
> people have demonstrated, even the rear motherboard USB
> ports are not safe to use.


I don't think there are any ESD protection on the USB ports.
May 5, 2005 5:45:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <bC9ee.12607$3U.726560@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Jim Gibson"
<jdgibson@myob.com> wrote:

> MMmm...
> Interesting stuff..
>
> So Paul, am I to understand that if there was an incident of small static
> discharge trying to ground itself through the outer wall of the USB
> connector - through the ground wire and then to pin 10 of the board header -
> all would be well?
>
> If pin 10 is NC and it receives a micro jolt or a few milliamps wouldn't
> that be enough to cause damage?
>
> JG
>

The only solid evidence we have right now, is the Gigabyte
web page. The advice I've given above is basically repeating
what Gigabyte is saying, only I consider the problem to be
more severe than they do. I don't feel that any grounding
scheme is sufficient to protect the motherboard (based on
reports that plugging into the motherboard USB connector
stack on the back of the computer is also killing boards).

http://tw.giga-byte.com/Motherboard/Support/FAQ/FAQ_456...

"The ICH4/5 SouthBridge chipset on my Intel motherboard
appears damaged or "burnt". How did this happen?

The GIGABYTE Global RMA Service Center has recently become aware
of the randomly occurring risk to ICH4/5 SouthBridge chipsets on
Intel motherboards to become damaged or "burnt" when a USB device
is connected. Please read the following paragraphs to learn more
about this issue.

Why did this happen?

There are three likely causes:

Accumulated static electricity from the human body may have been
transmitted to the ICH4/5 SouthBridge chipset when connecting a
USB device if it has not been "grounded". A connected USB device
does not have any static electricity protection. Accumulated
static electricity in a front-panel USB port that is not properly
"grounded" with the PC casing.

Usage Tips

- Avoid touching the USB connector.
- Release static electricity within your USB device by touching
the USB connector to any metal surface before plugging it into
your computer.
- Use rear-panel USB ports on your PC whenever possible.
- Use a three-pronged electrical cord to connect a power supply
to your PC.
- Use only approved or certified power supplies."

The Asus 2x5 connector uses only eight pins. There are two ground
pins. A typical USB installation needs three ground signals.
Two grounds for the ground pins in the two USB connectors. Plus
a shield connection is needed for the outside of the USB connector.
A good cable assembly will take one of the USB signal grounds
and splice the shield wire into it too (good here meaning not
good design practice, because that is not good electrical
design practice, but good as in working within the compromises
that Asus has created by not having a third ground pin).

VCC
D+
D-
GND -------------------------> To one Asus GND pin

VCC
D+
D-
GND ------------+------------> To the other Asus GND pin
|
GND_shield -----+

If the GND_shield is connected to NC, and static were to be applied
to the wire, the question would be, how much static voltage, and
how much clearance is there from the unconnected pin to any adjacent
conductors. The USB data signals might not really get very close
to that pin, so whether this is an issue or not really depends on
the layout of the board.

Since we don't know how sensitive the USB ports really are,
it could be that just dumping static discharge into the metal
of the computer case is enough to cause latchup in a USB port.
I cannot discount that as a possibility, but there is no way
to protect against that. The advice I've given assumes the
motherboard is resilient enough not to be affected by a static
discharge to the chassis, but only time will tell whether this
is true or not (we know Asus or Intel won't be telling us). I'm
hoping that by removing any "antennas" from the USB headers, and
keeping away from the rear motherboard USB ports, that most users
will enjoy use of their motherboard after the warranty has expired.

Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 5, 2005 1:57:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

You obviously have looked into this much more than I have - so who is to
'blame'.
Intel or the board designers/makers?
A quick look on line at a Toronto supplier's stock of Asus boards shows over
2000 P4P, P4V and P4S boards in stock.
Asus must still be churning socket 478 boards out......and there's gonna be
some disappointed buyers down the road.

To re-visit the case USB connector:
If one were to solder a wire from the outer shield of the USB connector then
to the chassis - how would that work?

Thanks for all you info..

JG



"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-0505050145160001@192.168.1.178...
> In article <bC9ee.12607$3U.726560@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Jim Gibson"
> <jdgibson@myob.com> wrote:
>
>> MMmm...
>> Interesting stuff..
>>
>> So Paul, am I to understand that if there was an incident of small static
>> discharge trying to ground itself through the outer wall of the USB
>> connector - through the ground wire and then to pin 10 of the board
>> header -
>> all would be well?
>>
>> If pin 10 is NC and it receives a micro jolt or a few milliamps wouldn't
>> that be enough to cause damage?
>>
>> JG
>>
>
> The only solid evidence we have right now, is the Gigabyte
> web page. The advice I've given above is basically repeating
> what Gigabyte is saying, only I consider the problem to be
> more severe than they do. I don't feel that any grounding
> scheme is sufficient to protect the motherboard (based on
> reports that plugging into the motherboard USB connector
> stack on the back of the computer is also killing boards).
>
> http://tw.giga-byte.com/Motherboard/Support/FAQ/FAQ_456...
>
> "The ICH4/5 SouthBridge chipset on my Intel motherboard
> appears damaged or "burnt". How did this happen?
>
> The GIGABYTE Global RMA Service Center has recently become aware
> of the randomly occurring risk to ICH4/5 SouthBridge chipsets on
> Intel motherboards to become damaged or "burnt" when a USB device
> is connected. Please read the following paragraphs to learn more
> about this issue.
>
> Why did this happen?
>
> There are three likely causes:
>
> Accumulated static electricity from the human body may have been
> transmitted to the ICH4/5 SouthBridge chipset when connecting a
> USB device if it has not been "grounded". A connected USB device
> does not have any static electricity protection. Accumulated
> static electricity in a front-panel USB port that is not properly
> "grounded" with the PC casing.
>
> Usage Tips
>
> - Avoid touching the USB connector.
> - Release static electricity within your USB device by touching
> the USB connector to any metal surface before plugging it into
> your computer.
> - Use rear-panel USB ports on your PC whenever possible.
> - Use a three-pronged electrical cord to connect a power supply
> to your PC.
> - Use only approved or certified power supplies."
>
> The Asus 2x5 connector uses only eight pins. There are two ground
> pins. A typical USB installation needs three ground signals.
> Two grounds for the ground pins in the two USB connectors. Plus
> a shield connection is needed for the outside of the USB connector.
> A good cable assembly will take one of the USB signal grounds
> and splice the shield wire into it too (good here meaning not
> good design practice, because that is not good electrical
> design practice, but good as in working within the compromises
> that Asus has created by not having a third ground pin).
>
> VCC
> D+
> D-
> GND -------------------------> To one Asus GND pin
>
> VCC
> D+
> D-
> GND ------------+------------> To the other Asus GND pin
> |
> GND_shield -----+
>
> If the GND_shield is connected to NC, and static were to be applied
> to the wire, the question would be, how much static voltage, and
> how much clearance is there from the unconnected pin to any adjacent
> conductors. The USB data signals might not really get very close
> to that pin, so whether this is an issue or not really depends on
> the layout of the board.
>
> Since we don't know how sensitive the USB ports really are,
> it could be that just dumping static discharge into the metal
> of the computer case is enough to cause latchup in a USB port.
> I cannot discount that as a possibility, but there is no way
> to protect against that. The advice I've given assumes the
> motherboard is resilient enough not to be affected by a static
> discharge to the chassis, but only time will tell whether this
> is true or not (we know Asus or Intel won't be telling us). I'm
> hoping that by removing any "antennas" from the USB headers, and
> keeping away from the rear motherboard USB ports, that most users
> will enjoy use of their motherboard after the warranty has expired.
>
> Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 5, 2005 6:10:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Hey Jim,

I am in T.O. as well. How do I go about getting an RMA from ASUS ? and
do I need to send it Stateside ?

I will try Paul's overnight suggestion as well. Funny I have always
used ASUS boards without a Hiccup, first time I spend for the top O the
Line and Zap doesn't want to work.

Frustrating.
May 5, 2005 9:26:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Thu, 5 May 2005 09:57:17 -0400, "Jim Gibson" <jdgibson@myob.com>
wrote:

> To re-visit the case USB connector:
> If one were to solder a wire from the outer shield of the
> USB connector then to the chassis - how would that work?

Better. The outer shield must be connected to the chassis.
On my Lian-Li case the front outer USB metallic shield is
bolted directly to the chassis that make very good ESD
protection (but I have not connected them yet).
May 6, 2005 12:25:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <1115327446.963588.216510@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
cold_canuck@hotmail.com wrote:

> Hey Jim,
>
> I am in T.O. as well. How do I go about getting an RMA from ASUS ? and
> do I need to send it Stateside ?
>
> I will try Paul's overnight suggestion as well. Funny I have always
> used ASUS boards without a Hiccup, first time I spend for the top O the
> Line and Zap doesn't want to work.
>
> Frustrating.

Remember that this is an experiment and not a proven cure.
I'm only suggesting removing all power, because I'm having
trouble believing that just the USB logic is dead.

Paul
May 6, 2005 1:34:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <1Dpee.13547$3U.942992@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Jim Gibson"
<jdgibson@myob.com> wrote:

> You obviously have looked into this much more than I have - so who is to
> 'blame'.
> Intel or the board designers/makers?
> A quick look on line at a Toronto supplier's stock of Asus boards shows over
> 2000 P4P, P4V and P4S boards in stock.
> Asus must still be churning socket 478 boards out......and there's gonna be
> some disappointed buyers down the road.
>
> To re-visit the case USB connector:
> If one were to solder a wire from the outer shield of the USB connector then
> to the chassis - how would that work?
>
> Thanks for all you info..
>
> JG
>
>

First of all, we don't understand the failure mechanism. So,
assigning blame is difficult. With regard to warranty claims,
that would be handled behind the scenes, so we don't know if
either party is on the hook financially.

In your list above, the boards with non-Intel chipsets would
not be involved. At least, there are no similar reports for
them (yet...).

The industry does have some awareness of the need for taking
ESD into account, when designing USB devices. But, in this
article, the emphasis is on preventing the computer from
crashing when the ESD happens, rather than preventing latchup
and destruction of devices.

http://www.reed-electronics.com/tmworld/index.asp?layou...

Intel does work on ESD resistance in its chips. At the end of
page 3, you can see their work on input protection. The 4-8KV
human body model performance targets are pretty impressive.

http://www.intel.com/technology/itj/q31998/pdf/qa.pdf

ESD is tricky stuff. Using your intuition seldom results in
the correct answer. Your wire, for example, becomes a
broadcast transmitter when ESD goes down the wire. A better
solution, would be if the shield touched the metal chassis.

Part of the reason I'm being so cautious, is because failure
has occurred by plugging into the rear ports. The rear ports
have a virtually ideal grounding situation, if the objective is
to shunt ESD to the chassis and on to the safety ground of
the PSU. That is why I'm advocating simply not using the
motherboard USB ports. If the USB connector stacks on the
motherboard cannot protect the ports, your piece of wire is
not going to do it either. Just get a PCI USB card and let
it absorb the abuse.

HTH,
Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 6, 2005 12:03:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

I replied to your hotmail address...
It may be siitting in your junk folder....

JG
<cold_canuck@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115327446.963588.216510@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hey Jim,
>
> I am in T.O. as well. How do I go about getting an RMA from ASUS ? and
> do I need to send it Stateside ?
>
> I will try Paul's overnight suggestion as well. Funny I have always
> used ASUS boards without a Hiccup, first time I spend for the top O the
> Line and Zap doesn't want to work.
>
> Frustrating.
>
May 9, 2005 1:08:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <orhfe.30218$VL3.1036552@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Jim Gibson"
<jdgibson@myob.com> wrote:

> RESULT
>
> Result of the "leave the CMOS battery out for 36 hours and see if the USB
> ports come back to life" test.
>
> I removed the battery for at least 36 hours.
> I put back the motherboard - this time with my spare Celeron. Everything
> else remained the same
> It fired up with no problems except BIOS complained about the date not
> being set.
> Set BIOS to default values.
> Fired up XP.
> I was sceptical as soon as I felt the Intel ICH5R chip on the board. It was
> much too hot for being powered for only 2 minutes.
> Plugged in my USB pen drive
> Plugged in my USB printer.
> I am sad to report that all USB ports were as dead as they were 36 hours
> before.
> So - - -it appears that whatever happened - static charge or not - the
> damage was permanent.
> I just don't understand how it can isolate only the USB controller.
>
> JG
>

Here is an interesting thread on the issue. Complete with a couple
of pictures of burned Southbridges.

http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84122&hi...

There is one claim of a failure right after rebooting. Very
puzzling.

Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 10, 2005 7:28:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

I wanted to let you know as well that I left the battery out overnight,
then rehooked everything the next day. Same result everything works
fine except all USB ports are dead.

I guess the days of plugging and unplugging USB connectors is over....
At least with this board.

If I have read correctly however as long as I do not use the sytem USB
ports but rather A PCI usb board I am safe to plug and unplug my MP3,
camera etc...

Thanks
Paul wrote:
> In article <orhfe.30218$VL3.1036552@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Jim
Gibson"
> <jdgibson@myob.com> wrote:
>
> > RESULT
> >
> > Result of the "leave the CMOS battery out for 36 hours and see if
the USB
> > ports come back to life" test.
> >
> > I removed the battery for at least 36 hours.
> > I put back the motherboard - this time with my spare Celeron.
Everything
> > else remained the same
> > It fired up with no problems except BIOS complained about the date
not
> > being set.
> > Set BIOS to default values.
> > Fired up XP.
> > I was sceptical as soon as I felt the Intel ICH5R chip on the
board. It was
> > much too hot for being powered for only 2 minutes.
> > Plugged in my USB pen drive
> > Plugged in my USB printer.
> > I am sad to report that all USB ports were as dead as they were 36
hours
> > before.
> > So - - -it appears that whatever happened - static charge or not -
the
> > damage was permanent.
> > I just don't understand how it can isolate only the USB controller.
> >
> > JG
> >
>
> Here is an interesting thread on the issue. Complete with a couple
> of pictures of burned Southbridges.
>
>
http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84122&hi...
>
> There is one claim of a failure right after rebooting. Very
> puzzling.
>
> Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 11, 2005 3:26:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

> If I have read correctly however as long as I do not use the sytem USB
> ports but rather A PCI usb board I am safe to plug and unplug my MP3,
> camera etc...

Only, I have seen a board where the USB ports die first, then the on-board
video died - and then the entire board.
The ICH5R will get so hot that eventually it will fry.
Could be tomorrow, next week or next month, but I'm positive it won't be
long before things get worse.
If I were you, I'd bite the bullet and send it back ASAP. Mine was shipped
out yesterday.

JG.

<cold_canuck@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115764119.567798.153180@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I wanted to let you know as well that I left the battery out overnight,
> then rehooked everything the next day. Same result everything works
> fine except all USB ports are dead.
>
> I guess the days of plugging and unplugging USB connectors is over....
> At least with this board.
>

>
> Thanks
> Paul wrote:
>> In article <orhfe.30218$VL3.1036552@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Jim
> Gibson"
>> <jdgibson@myob.com> wrote:
>>
>> > RESULT
>> >
>> > Result of the "leave the CMOS battery out for 36 hours and see if
> the USB
>> > ports come back to life" test.
>> >
>> > I removed the battery for at least 36 hours.
>> > I put back the motherboard - this time with my spare Celeron.
> Everything
>> > else remained the same
>> > It fired up with no problems except BIOS complained about the date
> not
>> > being set.
>> > Set BIOS to default values.
>> > Fired up XP.
>> > I was sceptical as soon as I felt the Intel ICH5R chip on the
> board. It was
>> > much too hot for being powered for only 2 minutes.
>> > Plugged in my USB pen drive
>> > Plugged in my USB printer.
>> > I am sad to report that all USB ports were as dead as they were 36
> hours
>> > before.
>> > So - - -it appears that whatever happened - static charge or not -
> the
>> > damage was permanent.
>> > I just don't understand how it can isolate only the USB controller.
>> >
>> > JG
>> >
>>
>> Here is an interesting thread on the issue. Complete with a couple
>> of pictures of burned Southbridges.
>>
>>
> http://www.abxzone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84122&hi...
>>
>> There is one claim of a failure right after rebooting. Very
>> puzzling.
>>
>> Paul
>
May 11, 2005 5:14:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <1115764119.567798.153180@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
cold_canuck@hotmail.com wrote:

> I wanted to let you know as well that I left the battery out overnight,
> then rehooked everything the next day. Same result everything works
> fine except all USB ports are dead.
>
> I guess the days of plugging and unplugging USB connectors is over....
> At least with this board.
>
> If I have read correctly however as long as I do not use the sytem USB
> ports but rather A PCI usb board I am safe to plug and unplug my MP3,
> camera etc...
>
> Thanks

My recommendations are based on whatever symptom descriptions I
am reading posted here or in any of the private forums that
happen to have noticed this phenomenon. My comment about one
board blowing after a reboot (i.e. no USB plugging was noted by
the poster) has to be about the worst report so far.

For most people, the trigger event is plugging a USB device into
the computer while it is running. The USB port in question, is
connected to the Southbridge. Soon after, the Southbridge gets
too hot to touch, and very soon, the board will be dead.
That is how the majority of descriptions run.

Based on that, using a separate PCI USB card, for all your USB
devices, is a workaround. At least until someone gets to the
bottom of this. That means, do not use the motherboard USB
connectors, and do not use the USB 2x5 headers (disconnect
any computer case front panel USB ports from the headers). That
is the most conservative practice I can recommend, short of
outright replacing the motherboard with one based on Via,
SIS, Nvidia, or ATI chipset.

As I own one of these boards too, I'm not happy about this
development, as this is the best computer I've got in the house
right now. I'm not using any USB with the thing at the moment,
and we'll see how long it lasts.

The reason a separate PCI card is safer to use, is if there
really is an issue with static electricity, it will ruin
your $10-$20 PCI USB card and not the rest of the motherboard.
As reports of USB trouble on other devices are rare to
non-existent, a separate PCI card should be pretty safe.

Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 23, 2005 3:37:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"Paul4" wrote:
> In article
> <1115764119.567798.153180@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> cold_canuck@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > I wanted to let you know as well that I left the battery out
> overnight,
> > then rehooked everything the next day. Same result
> everything works
> > fine except all USB ports are dead.
> >
> > I guess the days of plugging and unplugging USB connectors
> is over....
> > At least with this board.
> >
> > If I have read correctly however as long as I do not use the
> sytem USB
> > ports but rather A PCI usb board I am safe to plug and
> unplug my MP3,
> > camera etc...
> >
> > Thanks
>
> My recommendations are based on whatever symptom descriptions
> I
> am reading posted here or in any of the private forums that
> happen to have noticed this phenomenon. My comment about one
> board blowing after a reboot (i.e. no USB plugging was noted
> by
> the poster) has to be about the worst report so far.
>
> For most people, the trigger event is plugging a USB device
> into
> the computer while it is running. The USB port in question, is
> connected to the Southbridge. Soon after, the Southbridge gets
> too hot to touch, and very soon, the board will be dead.
> That is how the majority of descriptions run.
>
> Based on that, using a separate PCI USB card, for all your USB
> devices, is a workaround. At least until someone gets to the
> bottom of this. That means, do not use the motherboard USB
> connectors, and do not use the USB 2x5 headers (disconnect
> any computer case front panel USB ports from the headers).
> That
> is the most conservative practice I can recommend, short of
> outright replacing the motherboard with one based on Via,
> SIS, Nvidia, or ATI chipset.
>
> As I own one of these boards too, I'm not happy about this
> development, as this is the best computer I've got in the
> house
> right now. I'm not using any USB with the thing at the moment,
> and we'll see how long it lasts.
>
> The reason a separate PCI card is safer to use, is if there
> really is an issue with static electricity, it will ruin
> your $10-$20 PCI USB card and not the rest of the motherboard.
> As reports of USB trouble on other devices are rare to
> non-existent, a separate PCI card should be pretty safe.
>
> Paul

Paul,
I have been reading your posts re failure of ICH5 chips with much
interest.
We have 11 PC’s using these chips on the Asus P4P800-E board. So far 3
have failed. The last failure happened last week. They have all gone
up in smoke leaving a severe burn mark on the chip. After speaking to
the student who was working on this PC it appears he touched the PC
case and felt a static discharge, the PC re-booted and then smoke
appeared. I have since looked at the CCTV covering this room and this
looks to be what happened. No USB devices were connected.
The 2 previous failures, I believe battery powered USB devices were
used via the front panel connector.
I am planning on disconnecting the USB front panel and rear plate
connectors ASAP as I believe static must be being picked up via the
USB internal wiring.

--
Posted using the http://www.hardwareforumz.com interface, at author's request
Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
Topic URL: http://www.hardwareforumz.com/ASUS-P4C800E-Deluxe-USB-P...
Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report abuse: http://www.hardwareforumz.com/eform.php?p=283133
May 23, 2005 9:14:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <7_283133_a1e60311f90fed6c878f2cb05dfae048@hardwareforumz.com>,
Chris9999 <UseLinkToEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:

<<snip>>
> >
> > The reason a separate PCI card is safer to use, is if there
> > really is an issue with static electricity, it will ruin
> > your $10-$20 PCI USB card and not the rest of the motherboard.
> > As reports of USB trouble on other devices are rare to
> > non-existent, a separate PCI card should be pretty safe.
> >
> > Paul
>
> Paul,
> I have been reading your posts re failure of ICH5 chips with much
> interest.
> We have 11 PC’s using these chips on the Asus P4P800-E board. So far 3
> have failed. The last failure happened last week. They have all gone
> up in smoke leaving a severe burn mark on the chip. After speaking to
> the student who was working on this PC it appears he touched the PC
> case and felt a static discharge, the PC re-booted and then smoke
> appeared. I have since looked at the CCTV covering this room and this
> looks to be what happened. No USB devices were connected.
> The 2 previous failures, I believe battery powered USB devices were
> used via the front panel connector.
> I am planning on disconnecting the USB front panel and rear plate
> connectors ASAP as I believe static must be being picked up via the
> USB internal wiring.

Keep us posted on your failure rate. I want to see how
effective a strategy it is, to disconnect at least the
front panel USB wiring. I don''t know how you can do that
for the rear USB, unless you can unsolder the USB stacks
and remove them.

Depending on exactly how sensitive the USB ports are,
it might still be possible for a static discharge to the
computer case, to induce enough signal on the remaining
USB wires of the motherboard, to trigger another one off.

It could be that there is an "aging" effect here, and
the more power_on_hours a machine has, the more sensitive
to static it gets. It is not possible to draw any conclusions
from postings of failures here, as to whether there is
something like that at work or not. The reason I postulate
that, is static problems weren't apparent when these products
were introduced, but now suddenly they are "dropping like flies".

In any case, someone who has a large population of boards will
be able to formulate better theories than I can.

Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 24, 2005 12:17:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Is it possible for all owners (or at least, willing owners) of ASUS
board using the ICH4 and 5 chipsets send a joint email to ASUS to
demand an answer ???

On Mon, 23 May 2005 17:14:12 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>In article <7_283133_a1e60311f90fed6c878f2cb05dfae048@hardwareforumz.com>,
>Chris9999 <UseLinkToEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:
>
><<snip>>
>> >
>> > The reason a separate PCI card is safer to use, is if there
>> > really is an issue with static electricity, it will ruin
>> > your $10-$20 PCI USB card and not the rest of the motherboard.
>> > As reports of USB trouble on other devices are rare to
>> > non-existent, a separate PCI card should be pretty safe.
>> >
>> > Paul
>>
>> Paul,
>> I have been reading your posts re failure of ICH5 chips with much
>> interest.
>> We have 11 PC’s using these chips on the Asus P4P800-E board. So far 3
>> have failed. The last failure happened last week. They have all gone
>> up in smoke leaving a severe burn mark on the chip. After speaking to
>> the student who was working on this PC it appears he touched the PC
>> case and felt a static discharge, the PC re-booted and then smoke
>> appeared. I have since looked at the CCTV covering this room and this
>> looks to be what happened. No USB devices were connected.
>> The 2 previous failures, I believe battery powered USB devices were
>> used via the front panel connector.
>> I am planning on disconnecting the USB front panel and rear plate
>> connectors ASAP as I believe static must be being picked up via the
>> USB internal wiring.
>
>Keep us posted on your failure rate. I want to see how
>effective a strategy it is, to disconnect at least the
>front panel USB wiring. I don''t know how you can do that
>for the rear USB, unless you can unsolder the USB stacks
>and remove them.
>
>Depending on exactly how sensitive the USB ports are,
>it might still be possible for a static discharge to the
>computer case, to induce enough signal on the remaining
>USB wires of the motherboard, to trigger another one off.
>
>It could be that there is an "aging" effect here, and
>the more power_on_hours a machine has, the more sensitive
>to static it gets. It is not possible to draw any conclusions
>from postings of failures here, as to whether there is
>something like that at work or not. The reason I postulate
>that, is static problems weren't apparent when these products
>were introduced, but now suddenly they are "dropping like flies".
>
>In any case, someone who has a large population of boards will
>be able to formulate better theories than I can.
>
> Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
May 24, 2005 1:13:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

My theory still revolves around the ground wire going to the NC pin on the
USB board headers.
This happens on some PC cases with USB front panel connectors that are not
exactly designed to match Asus' pinouts on the board.
It might be a worthwhile exercise to note the kind of case , USB front panel
configuration and whether the front USB connectors are grounded to the case
and/or are wired directly to pin 10 on the board header, where the ICH5 chip
gets fried.
This of course does not account for rear USB port problems (but static
charge is probably involved)
As for a joint email to ASUS on behalf of everyone affected with the
'dreaded ICH5 burnout' -
ASUS are not going to admit a thing.
Another look online of the inventory of Asus boards at a Toronto area
supplier still reports 1,945 P4P* Intel boards still in stock - so they are
not being withdrawn, even if Asus knows of a problem.

JG



"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-2305051714120001@192.168.1.178...
> In article <7_283133_a1e60311f90fed6c878f2cb05dfae048@hardwareforumz.com>,
> Chris9999 <UseLinkToEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:
>
> <<snip>>
>> >
>> > The reason a separate PCI card is safer to use, is if there
>> > really is an issue with static electricity, it will ruin
>> > your $10-$20 PCI USB card and not the rest of the motherboard.
>> > As reports of USB trouble on other devices are rare to
>> > non-existent, a separate PCI card should be pretty safe.
>> >
>> > Paul
>>
>> Paul,
>> I have been reading your posts re failure of ICH5 chips with much
>> interest.
>> We have 11 PC's using these chips on the Asus P4P800-E board. So far 3
>> have failed. The last failure happened last week. They have all gone
>> up in smoke leaving a severe burn mark on the chip. After speaking to
>> the student who was working on this PC it appears he touched the PC
>> case and felt a static discharge, the PC re-booted and then smoke
>> appeared. I have since looked at the CCTV covering this room and this
>> looks to be what happened. No USB devices were connected.
>> The 2 previous failures, I believe battery powered USB devices were
>> used via the front panel connector.
>> I am planning on disconnecting the USB front panel and rear plate
>> connectors ASAP as I believe static must be being picked up via the
>> USB internal wiring.
>
> Keep us posted on your failure rate. I want to see how
> effective a strategy it is, to disconnect at least the
> front panel USB wiring. I don''t know how you can do that
> for the rear USB, unless you can unsolder the USB stacks
> and remove them.
>
> Depending on exactly how sensitive the USB ports are,
> it might still be possible for a static discharge to the
> computer case, to induce enough signal on the remaining
> USB wires of the motherboard, to trigger another one off.
>
> It could be that there is an "aging" effect here, and
> the more power_on_hours a machine has, the more sensitive
> to static it gets. It is not possible to draw any conclusions
> from postings of failures here, as to whether there is
> something like that at work or not. The reason I postulate
> that, is static problems weren't apparent when these products
> were introduced, but now suddenly they are "dropping like flies".
>
> In any case, someone who has a large population of boards will
> be able to formulate better theories than I can.
>
> Paul
May 24, 2005 2:06:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <dds491pf868a430ns0v1hpoegch2ofe2m8@4ax.com>, Okoidogo wrote:

> Is it possible for all owners (or at least, willing owners) of ASUS
> board using the ICH4 and 5 chipsets send a joint email to ASUS to
> demand an answer ???
>

When you send your email, don't forget to include "class
action lawsuit" in the title :-)

I think you may have better luck using the phone. Perhaps
some incautious tech support person will give some details.
If their phone conversations are taped, you can forget
honesty. I've never tried their tech support myself.

And lawsuits do work - here is an example. This one was
for bad caps on Abit boards.

http://www.abitsettlement.com/

Paul
!