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Hot Swapping a SATA drive in Windows 2000 and XP.

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Anonymous
August 31, 2004 8:28:04 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

SATA drives are theoretically hot swappable; the power and data
connectors are designed for 'hot' removal, with ground wires
connecting first, and the interface is designed to deal with the
various surge issues - this is well known.

I've used several USB 2.0 external drives, and before you remove them,
you are supposed to 'stop' them; presumably to flush any delayed
writes that may be in progress, etc.

But when I plug in a SATA drive, it does not show up as a device to be
'safely removed' in the 'Safely Remove Hardware' applet that shows up
if I plug in a USB device.

I've done some tests; when I plug in a SATA drive (a data drive,
obviously, not a boot drive), a new hard drive shows up, no problem.
I can read and write to this drive, no problem. And if I unplug it,
or power it down, the drive letter simply disappears - no error
messages or warnings whatsoever. All sounds good.

HOWEVER, I could not find a file that I had written to the drive.
This has all the markings of a write-cached file not being written to
the device. So it occurred to me that, somehow, I should be able to
'stop', or 'dismount', or otherwise 'software disconnect' this drive
before I actually remove it. But the only relevant option I can find
for the device is to disable write caching - is that what I should be
doing? I'd rather not do that as it will generally slow down
performance, but if it is the only way to guarantee data integrity,
that's what I'll do.

I've seen posts from others that indicate this is a regular practice,
so I just wondered, how do I guarantee my files have been 'flushed'
before removing the drive?

Thanks!
For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 4:01:30 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

You have a couple of options. First would be to format the drive as
FAT32, which you may or may not want to do. Second, you will need to
change the way the device is set up. Connect the device, open Device
Manager, double click on the hard drive in question, click the Policies
Tab, then set it to Optimize for Quick Removal. I use FAT32 on my
removeable SATA drives and set them to Optimize for Quick Removal, but
you may be able to do it differently.

----
Nathan McNulty


Chris S wrote:
> SATA drives are theoretically hot swappable; the power and data
> connectors are designed for 'hot' removal, with ground wires
> connecting first, and the interface is designed to deal with the
> various surge issues - this is well known.
>
> I've used several USB 2.0 external drives, and before you remove them,
> you are supposed to 'stop' them; presumably to flush any delayed
> writes that may be in progress, etc.
>
> But when I plug in a SATA drive, it does not show up as a device to be
> 'safely removed' in the 'Safely Remove Hardware' applet that shows up
> if I plug in a USB device.
>
> I've done some tests; when I plug in a SATA drive (a data drive,
> obviously, not a boot drive), a new hard drive shows up, no problem.
> I can read and write to this drive, no problem. And if I unplug it,
> or power it down, the drive letter simply disappears - no error
> messages or warnings whatsoever. All sounds good.
>
> HOWEVER, I could not find a file that I had written to the drive.
> This has all the markings of a write-cached file not being written to
> the device. So it occurred to me that, somehow, I should be able to
> 'stop', or 'dismount', or otherwise 'software disconnect' this drive
> before I actually remove it. But the only relevant option I can find
> for the device is to disable write caching - is that what I should be
> doing? I'd rather not do that as it will generally slow down
> performance, but if it is the only way to guarantee data integrity,
> that's what I'll do.
>
> I've seen posts from others that indicate this is a regular practice,
> so I just wondered, how do I guarantee my files have been 'flushed'
> before removing the drive?
>
> Thanks!
> For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 1:31:29 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Thanks Nathan. Is the setting of FAT32 a pre-condition to getting the
'Optimize for Quick Removal', or am I formatting as FAT32 for another
reason? I don't believe I have any compelling reason to go with NTFS
with these particular drives so if that's the trick, I'll certainly go
with it.

I just popped in a USB memory stick, and went to the 'policies' tab,
and the two choices/explanations are as follows:
1) "Optimize for Quick Removal - This setting disables write caching
on the disk and in Windows, so you can disconnect this device without
using the Safe Removal icon"
2) "Optimize for performance - This setting enables write caching in
Windows to improve disk performance. To disconnect this device from
the computer, click the 'Safely Remove Hardware' icon in the taskbar
notification area".

So ... this suggests it's perfectly OK to go with either option, it's
just that, if you choose 'performance', you need to 'safely remove'
the device first. Is the very appearance of that 'safely remove
hardware' icon in the taskbar restricted to FAT32 devices?

I'll go home and play with this for a while and report back ...
thanks!





On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:01:30 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
wrote:

>You have a couple of options. First would be to format the drive as
>FAT32, which you may or may not want to do. Second, you will need to
>change the way the device is set up. Connect the device, open Device
>Manager, double click on the hard drive in question, click the Policies
>Tab, then set it to Optimize for Quick Removal. I use FAT32 on my
>removeable SATA drives and set them to Optimize for Quick Removal, but
>you may be able to do it differently.
>
>----
>Nathan McNulty
>
>
>Chris S wrote:
>> SATA drives are theoretically hot swappable; the power and data
>> connectors are designed for 'hot' removal, with ground wires
>> connecting first, and the interface is designed to deal with the
>> various surge issues - this is well known.
>>
>> I've used several USB 2.0 external drives, and before you remove them,
>> you are supposed to 'stop' them; presumably to flush any delayed
>> writes that may be in progress, etc.
>>
>> But when I plug in a SATA drive, it does not show up as a device to be
>> 'safely removed' in the 'Safely Remove Hardware' applet that shows up
>> if I plug in a USB device.
>>
>> I've done some tests; when I plug in a SATA drive (a data drive,
>> obviously, not a boot drive), a new hard drive shows up, no problem.
>> I can read and write to this drive, no problem. And if I unplug it,
>> or power it down, the drive letter simply disappears - no error
>> messages or warnings whatsoever. All sounds good.
>>
>> HOWEVER, I could not find a file that I had written to the drive.
>> This has all the markings of a write-cached file not being written to
>> the device. So it occurred to me that, somehow, I should be able to
>> 'stop', or 'dismount', or otherwise 'software disconnect' this drive
>> before I actually remove it. But the only relevant option I can find
>> for the device is to disable write caching - is that what I should be
>> doing? I'd rather not do that as it will generally slow down
>> performance, but if it is the only way to guarantee data integrity,
>> that's what I'll do.
>>
>> I've seen posts from others that indicate this is a regular practice,
>> so I just wondered, how do I guarantee my files have been 'flushed'
>> before removing the drive?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.

For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
Related resources
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 1:44:24 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Well, the plot thickens, as they say ... on my home system, when I
plug in my SATA drive, and go to it's properties (the same place where
I saw 'policies' on the USB drive below), I only see 'Disk Properties'
and 'SCSI Properties'. On the 'Disk Properties' tab, there is one
option - Write Cache enabled; it's grayed out and unchecked. On the
'SCSI Properties', there are two options: 'Disable tagged queueing'
and 'Disable synchronous transfers'. Both are available (i.e., not
grayed out), and bot are not checked.

So the bottom line is, I don't have the 'policies' tab in the first
place, which is where you are going to set the various optimization
choices. How come my SATA drives are being treated as 'SCSI', while
yours are not? Is that the root cause here?

My controller is an Adaptec 'SATA Connect' card, which shows up, under
device manager, as a SCSI device 'Adaptec Serial ATA 1205SA Host
Controller', and it's control panel applet says it's a Sil 3112 Rev 2
device.

Thanks!

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:31:29 -0700, Chris S <myname@see.signature.com>
wrote:

>Thanks Nathan. Is the setting of FAT32 a pre-condition to getting the
>'Optimize for Quick Removal', or am I formatting as FAT32 for another
>reason? I don't believe I have any compelling reason to go with NTFS
>with these particular drives so if that's the trick, I'll certainly go
>with it.
>
>I just popped in a USB memory stick, and went to the 'policies' tab,
>and the two choices/explanations are as follows:
>1) "Optimize for Quick Removal - This setting disables write caching
>on the disk and in Windows, so you can disconnect this device without
>using the Safe Removal icon"
>2) "Optimize for performance - This setting enables write caching in
>Windows to improve disk performance. To disconnect this device from
>the computer, click the 'Safely Remove Hardware' icon in the taskbar
>notification area".
>
>So ... this suggests it's perfectly OK to go with either option, it's
>just that, if you choose 'performance', you need to 'safely remove'
>the device first. Is the very appearance of that 'safely remove
>hardware' icon in the taskbar restricted to FAT32 devices?
>
>I'll go home and play with this for a while and report back ...
>thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:01:30 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
>wrote:
>
>>You have a couple of options. First would be to format the drive as
>>FAT32, which you may or may not want to do. Second, you will need to
>>change the way the device is set up. Connect the device, open Device
>>Manager, double click on the hard drive in question, click the Policies
>>Tab, then set it to Optimize for Quick Removal. I use FAT32 on my
>>removeable SATA drives and set them to Optimize for Quick Removal, but
>>you may be able to do it differently.
>>
>>----
>>Nathan McNulty
>>
>>
>>Chris S wrote:
>>> SATA drives are theoretically hot swappable; the power and data
>>> connectors are designed for 'hot' removal, with ground wires
>>> connecting first, and the interface is designed to deal with the
>>> various surge issues - this is well known.
>>>
>>> I've used several USB 2.0 external drives, and before you remove them,
>>> you are supposed to 'stop' them; presumably to flush any delayed
>>> writes that may be in progress, etc.
>>>
>>> But when I plug in a SATA drive, it does not show up as a device to be
>>> 'safely removed' in the 'Safely Remove Hardware' applet that shows up
>>> if I plug in a USB device.
>>>
>>> I've done some tests; when I plug in a SATA drive (a data drive,
>>> obviously, not a boot drive), a new hard drive shows up, no problem.
>>> I can read and write to this drive, no problem. And if I unplug it,
>>> or power it down, the drive letter simply disappears - no error
>>> messages or warnings whatsoever. All sounds good.
>>>
>>> HOWEVER, I could not find a file that I had written to the drive.
>>> This has all the markings of a write-cached file not being written to
>>> the device. So it occurred to me that, somehow, I should be able to
>>> 'stop', or 'dismount', or otherwise 'software disconnect' this drive
>>> before I actually remove it. But the only relevant option I can find
>>> for the device is to disable write caching - is that what I should be
>>> doing? I'd rather not do that as it will generally slow down
>>> performance, but if it is the only way to guarantee data integrity,
>>> that's what I'll do.
>>>
>>> I've seen posts from others that indicate this is a regular practice,
>>> so I just wondered, how do I guarantee my files have been 'flushed'
>>> before removing the drive?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>
>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.

===========
Remove 'nospam' from email to reply - Thanks
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 1:44:25 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

And still more info ... I just plugged my SATA drive into my XP Pro
office computer (my home computer mentioned below is Windows 2000),
which has a Maxtor SATA/150 PCI Card (which is a promise device under
the covers). Going to the properties of the drive in this
configuration, I do see a 'policies' tab, but when I select it, the
two 'optimize...' options are grayed out, and the 'Optimize for
performance' is the option selected. So I can't change it to 'optimze
for quick removal' ....

Stranger and stranger ... ;) 


On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 21:44:24 GMT, Chris S <cschofie@nospam.home.com>
wrote:

>Well, the plot thickens, as they say ... on my home system, when I
>plug in my SATA drive, and go to it's properties (the same place where
>I saw 'policies' on the USB drive below), I only see 'Disk Properties'
>and 'SCSI Properties'. On the 'Disk Properties' tab, there is one
>option - Write Cache enabled; it's grayed out and unchecked. On the
>'SCSI Properties', there are two options: 'Disable tagged queueing'
>and 'Disable synchronous transfers'. Both are available (i.e., not
>grayed out), and bot are not checked.
>
>So the bottom line is, I don't have the 'policies' tab in the first
>place, which is where you are going to set the various optimization
>choices. How come my SATA drives are being treated as 'SCSI', while
>yours are not? Is that the root cause here?
>
>My controller is an Adaptec 'SATA Connect' card, which shows up, under
>device manager, as a SCSI device 'Adaptec Serial ATA 1205SA Host
>Controller', and it's control panel applet says it's a Sil 3112 Rev 2
>device.
>
>Thanks!
>
>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:31:29 -0700, Chris S <myname@see.signature.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Thanks Nathan. Is the setting of FAT32 a pre-condition to getting the
>>'Optimize for Quick Removal', or am I formatting as FAT32 for another
>>reason? I don't believe I have any compelling reason to go with NTFS
>>with these particular drives so if that's the trick, I'll certainly go
>>with it.
>>
>>I just popped in a USB memory stick, and went to the 'policies' tab,
>>and the two choices/explanations are as follows:
>>1) "Optimize for Quick Removal - This setting disables write caching
>>on the disk and in Windows, so you can disconnect this device without
>>using the Safe Removal icon"
>>2) "Optimize for performance - This setting enables write caching in
>>Windows to improve disk performance. To disconnect this device from
>>the computer, click the 'Safely Remove Hardware' icon in the taskbar
>>notification area".
>>
>>So ... this suggests it's perfectly OK to go with either option, it's
>>just that, if you choose 'performance', you need to 'safely remove'
>>the device first. Is the very appearance of that 'safely remove
>>hardware' icon in the taskbar restricted to FAT32 devices?
>>
>>I'll go home and play with this for a while and report back ...
>>thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:01:30 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>You have a couple of options. First would be to format the drive as
>>>FAT32, which you may or may not want to do. Second, you will need to
>>>change the way the device is set up. Connect the device, open Device
>>>Manager, double click on the hard drive in question, click the Policies
>>>Tab, then set it to Optimize for Quick Removal. I use FAT32 on my
>>>removeable SATA drives and set them to Optimize for Quick Removal, but
>>>you may be able to do it differently.
>>>
>>>----
>>>Nathan McNulty
>>>
>>>
>>>Chris S wrote:
>>>> SATA drives are theoretically hot swappable; the power and data
>>>> connectors are designed for 'hot' removal, with ground wires
>>>> connecting first, and the interface is designed to deal with the
>>>> various surge issues - this is well known.
>>>>
>>>> I've used several USB 2.0 external drives, and before you remove them,
>>>> you are supposed to 'stop' them; presumably to flush any delayed
>>>> writes that may be in progress, etc.
>>>>
>>>> But when I plug in a SATA drive, it does not show up as a device to be
>>>> 'safely removed' in the 'Safely Remove Hardware' applet that shows up
>>>> if I plug in a USB device.
>>>>
>>>> I've done some tests; when I plug in a SATA drive (a data drive,
>>>> obviously, not a boot drive), a new hard drive shows up, no problem.
>>>> I can read and write to this drive, no problem. And if I unplug it,
>>>> or power it down, the drive letter simply disappears - no error
>>>> messages or warnings whatsoever. All sounds good.
>>>>
>>>> HOWEVER, I could not find a file that I had written to the drive.
>>>> This has all the markings of a write-cached file not being written to
>>>> the device. So it occurred to me that, somehow, I should be able to
>>>> 'stop', or 'dismount', or otherwise 'software disconnect' this drive
>>>> before I actually remove it. But the only relevant option I can find
>>>> for the device is to disable write caching - is that what I should be
>>>> doing? I'd rather not do that as it will generally slow down
>>>> performance, but if it is the only way to guarantee data integrity,
>>>> that's what I'll do.
>>>>
>>>> I've seen posts from others that indicate this is a regular practice,
>>>> so I just wondered, how do I guarantee my files have been 'flushed'
>>>> before removing the drive?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>>
>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>
>===========
>Remove 'nospam' from email to reply - Thanks

For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 4:06:05 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

I will try to help as best as I can. I believe you need to have the
drive formatted as FAT32 to use Optimize for Quick Removal. This is
simply what I choose to use for my SATA drive. I would update the
chipset drivers, format the drive again, and then set the options right
there. XP will not format FAT32 larger than 32GB unless you use
something different to format it. I simply connected the drive
internally and used a Windows 98 Bootdisk. Your method may vary ;) 

----
Nathan McNulty


Chris S wrote:
> And still more info ... I just plugged my SATA drive into my XP Pro
> office computer (my home computer mentioned below is Windows 2000),
> which has a Maxtor SATA/150 PCI Card (which is a promise device under
> the covers). Going to the properties of the drive in this
> configuration, I do see a 'policies' tab, but when I select it, the
> two 'optimize...' options are grayed out, and the 'Optimize for
> performance' is the option selected. So I can't change it to 'optimze
> for quick removal' ....
>
> Stranger and stranger ... ;) 
>
>
> On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 21:44:24 GMT, Chris S <cschofie@nospam.home.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Well, the plot thickens, as they say ... on my home system, when I
>>plug in my SATA drive, and go to it's properties (the same place where
>>I saw 'policies' on the USB drive below), I only see 'Disk Properties'
>>and 'SCSI Properties'. On the 'Disk Properties' tab, there is one
>>option - Write Cache enabled; it's grayed out and unchecked. On the
>>'SCSI Properties', there are two options: 'Disable tagged queueing'
>>and 'Disable synchronous transfers'. Both are available (i.e., not
>>grayed out), and bot are not checked.
>>
>>So the bottom line is, I don't have the 'policies' tab in the first
>>place, which is where you are going to set the various optimization
>>choices. How come my SATA drives are being treated as 'SCSI', while
>>yours are not? Is that the root cause here?
>>
>>My controller is an Adaptec 'SATA Connect' card, which shows up, under
>>device manager, as a SCSI device 'Adaptec Serial ATA 1205SA Host
>>Controller', and it's control panel applet says it's a Sil 3112 Rev 2
>>device.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:31:29 -0700, Chris S <myname@see.signature.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Thanks Nathan. Is the setting of FAT32 a pre-condition to getting the
>>>'Optimize for Quick Removal', or am I formatting as FAT32 for another
>>>reason? I don't believe I have any compelling reason to go with NTFS
>>>with these particular drives so if that's the trick, I'll certainly go
>>>with it.
>>>
>>>I just popped in a USB memory stick, and went to the 'policies' tab,
>>>and the two choices/explanations are as follows:
>>>1) "Optimize for Quick Removal - This setting disables write caching
>>>on the disk and in Windows, so you can disconnect this device without
>>>using the Safe Removal icon"
>>>2) "Optimize for performance - This setting enables write caching in
>>>Windows to improve disk performance. To disconnect this device from
>>>the computer, click the 'Safely Remove Hardware' icon in the taskbar
>>>notification area".
>>>
>>>So ... this suggests it's perfectly OK to go with either option, it's
>>>just that, if you choose 'performance', you need to 'safely remove'
>>>the device first. Is the very appearance of that 'safely remove
>>>hardware' icon in the taskbar restricted to FAT32 devices?
>>>
>>>I'll go home and play with this for a while and report back ...
>>>thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:01:30 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>You have a couple of options. First would be to format the drive as
>>>>FAT32, which you may or may not want to do. Second, you will need to
>>>>change the way the device is set up. Connect the device, open Device
>>>>Manager, double click on the hard drive in question, click the Policies
>>>>Tab, then set it to Optimize for Quick Removal. I use FAT32 on my
>>>>removeable SATA drives and set them to Optimize for Quick Removal, but
>>>>you may be able to do it differently.
>>>>
>>>>----
>>>>Nathan McNulty
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Chris S wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>SATA drives are theoretically hot swappable; the power and data
>>>>>connectors are designed for 'hot' removal, with ground wires
>>>>>connecting first, and the interface is designed to deal with the
>>>>>various surge issues - this is well known.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've used several USB 2.0 external drives, and before you remove them,
>>>>>you are supposed to 'stop' them; presumably to flush any delayed
>>>>>writes that may be in progress, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>But when I plug in a SATA drive, it does not show up as a device to be
>>>>>'safely removed' in the 'Safely Remove Hardware' applet that shows up
>>>>>if I plug in a USB device.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've done some tests; when I plug in a SATA drive (a data drive,
>>>>>obviously, not a boot drive), a new hard drive shows up, no problem.
>>>>>I can read and write to this drive, no problem. And if I unplug it,
>>>>>or power it down, the drive letter simply disappears - no error
>>>>>messages or warnings whatsoever. All sounds good.
>>>>>
>>>>>HOWEVER, I could not find a file that I had written to the drive.
>>>>>This has all the markings of a write-cached file not being written to
>>>>>the device. So it occurred to me that, somehow, I should be able to
>>>>>'stop', or 'dismount', or otherwise 'software disconnect' this drive
>>>>>before I actually remove it. But the only relevant option I can find
>>>>>for the device is to disable write caching - is that what I should be
>>>>>doing? I'd rather not do that as it will generally slow down
>>>>>performance, but if it is the only way to guarantee data integrity,
>>>>>that's what I'll do.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've seen posts from others that indicate this is a regular practice,
>>>>>so I just wondered, how do I guarantee my files have been 'flushed'
>>>>>before removing the drive?
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>>>
>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>>
>>===========
>>Remove 'nospam' from email to reply - Thanks
>
>
> For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 5:55:05 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Well, I'm stumped. I just took an old 10 gig maxtor drive (ata) and
put it in my SATA enclosure (which does pata/sata conversion). The
drive shows up no problem. I formatted it as FAT32, but still, the
two 'optimize' options on the 'policies' button are grayed out.

This is somewhat consistent with my other tests, which have included
'native' SATA drives (though I can't afford to re-format the 'real'
sata drive at the moment).

I even took my USB memory stick, and was able to format it as NTFS,
and it still had the two 'optimize' options available on the
'policies' tab, so NTFS/FAT don't appear to be the deciding factor
here.

The essence of the problem seems to be that my two SATA cards (one
Adaptec/Silicon Image card, one Maxtor/Promise card) present
themselves as SCSI adapters, and thus, disks connected to them are
treated as SCSI disks.

Do your SATA adapters and associated drives show up as SCSI devices?

The only other variables I can think of are the specific settings in
the 'disk management' applet; I could make it 'basic' or 'dynamic'
(I've chosen both at various times, seems to make no difference),
primary or extended (think I've tried both);

I just spent $150 on a bunch of 6 foot external SATA cables, and
internal sata connector posts (to provide 'female' sata connectors on
back of computer) so I'd like to proceed with this, but at this point
I'm running out of ideas!

Thanks!

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 00:06:05 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
wrote:

>I will try to help as best as I can. I believe you need to have the
>drive formatted as FAT32 to use Optimize for Quick Removal. This is
>simply what I choose to use for my SATA drive. I would update the
>chipset drivers, format the drive again, and then set the options right
>there. XP will not format FAT32 larger than 32GB unless you use
>something different to format it. I simply connected the drive
>internally and used a Windows 98 Bootdisk. Your method may vary ;) 
>
>----
>Nathan McNulty
>
>
>Chris S wrote:
>> And still more info ... I just plugged my SATA drive into my XP Pro
>> office computer (my home computer mentioned below is Windows 2000),
>> which has a Maxtor SATA/150 PCI Card (which is a promise device under
>> the covers). Going to the properties of the drive in this
>> configuration, I do see a 'policies' tab, but when I select it, the
>> two 'optimize...' options are grayed out, and the 'Optimize for
>> performance' is the option selected. So I can't change it to 'optimze
>> for quick removal' ....
>>
>> Stranger and stranger ... ;) 
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 21:44:24 GMT, Chris S <cschofie@nospam.home.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Well, the plot thickens, as they say ... on my home system, when I
>>>plug in my SATA drive, and go to it's properties (the same place where
>>>I saw 'policies' on the USB drive below), I only see 'Disk Properties'
>>>and 'SCSI Properties'. On the 'Disk Properties' tab, there is one
>>>option - Write Cache enabled; it's grayed out and unchecked. On the
>>>'SCSI Properties', there are two options: 'Disable tagged queueing'
>>>and 'Disable synchronous transfers'. Both are available (i.e., not
>>>grayed out), and bot are not checked.
>>>
>>>So the bottom line is, I don't have the 'policies' tab in the first
>>>place, which is where you are going to set the various optimization
>>>choices. How come my SATA drives are being treated as 'SCSI', while
>>>yours are not? Is that the root cause here?
>>>
>>>My controller is an Adaptec 'SATA Connect' card, which shows up, under
>>>device manager, as a SCSI device 'Adaptec Serial ATA 1205SA Host
>>>Controller', and it's control panel applet says it's a Sil 3112 Rev 2
>>>device.
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>
>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:31:29 -0700, Chris S <myname@see.signature.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Thanks Nathan. Is the setting of FAT32 a pre-condition to getting the
>>>>'Optimize for Quick Removal', or am I formatting as FAT32 for another
>>>>reason? I don't believe I have any compelling reason to go with NTFS
>>>>with these particular drives so if that's the trick, I'll certainly go
>>>>with it.
>>>>
>>>>I just popped in a USB memory stick, and went to the 'policies' tab,
>>>>and the two choices/explanations are as follows:
>>>>1) "Optimize for Quick Removal - This setting disables write caching
>>>>on the disk and in Windows, so you can disconnect this device without
>>>>using the Safe Removal icon"
>>>>2) "Optimize for performance - This setting enables write caching in
>>>>Windows to improve disk performance. To disconnect this device from
>>>>the computer, click the 'Safely Remove Hardware' icon in the taskbar
>>>>notification area".
>>>>
>>>>So ... this suggests it's perfectly OK to go with either option, it's
>>>>just that, if you choose 'performance', you need to 'safely remove'
>>>>the device first. Is the very appearance of that 'safely remove
>>>>hardware' icon in the taskbar restricted to FAT32 devices?
>>>>
>>>>I'll go home and play with this for a while and report back ...
>>>>thanks!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:01:30 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>You have a couple of options. First would be to format the drive as
>>>>>FAT32, which you may or may not want to do. Second, you will need to
>>>>>change the way the device is set up. Connect the device, open Device
>>>>>Manager, double click on the hard drive in question, click the Policies
>>>>>Tab, then set it to Optimize for Quick Removal. I use FAT32 on my
>>>>>removeable SATA drives and set them to Optimize for Quick Removal, but
>>>>>you may be able to do it differently.
>>>>>
>>>>>----
>>>>>Nathan McNulty
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Chris S wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>SATA drives are theoretically hot swappable; the power and data
>>>>>>connectors are designed for 'hot' removal, with ground wires
>>>>>>connecting first, and the interface is designed to deal with the
>>>>>>various surge issues - this is well known.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've used several USB 2.0 external drives, and before you remove them,
>>>>>>you are supposed to 'stop' them; presumably to flush any delayed
>>>>>>writes that may be in progress, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But when I plug in a SATA drive, it does not show up as a device to be
>>>>>>'safely removed' in the 'Safely Remove Hardware' applet that shows up
>>>>>>if I plug in a USB device.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've done some tests; when I plug in a SATA drive (a data drive,
>>>>>>obviously, not a boot drive), a new hard drive shows up, no problem.
>>>>>>I can read and write to this drive, no problem. And if I unplug it,
>>>>>>or power it down, the drive letter simply disappears - no error
>>>>>>messages or warnings whatsoever. All sounds good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>HOWEVER, I could not find a file that I had written to the drive.
>>>>>>This has all the markings of a write-cached file not being written to
>>>>>>the device. So it occurred to me that, somehow, I should be able to
>>>>>>'stop', or 'dismount', or otherwise 'software disconnect' this drive
>>>>>>before I actually remove it. But the only relevant option I can find
>>>>>>for the device is to disable write caching - is that what I should be
>>>>>>doing? I'd rather not do that as it will generally slow down
>>>>>>performance, but if it is the only way to guarantee data integrity,
>>>>>>that's what I'll do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've seen posts from others that indicate this is a regular practice,
>>>>>>so I just wondered, how do I guarantee my files have been 'flushed'
>>>>>>before removing the drive?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>>>>
>>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>>>
>>>===========
>>>Remove 'nospam' from email to reply - Thanks
>>
>>
>> For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.

For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 5:17:35 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Things showing up as SCSI is just odd. I have nothing like this on my
system. I would go into Device Manager (Start-Run-devmgmt.msc) and
remove these devices. Install the latest chipset drivers and reboot.
If after installing the latest chipset drivers and a clean configuration
of the drives it doesn't work, I would try a fresh install of XP as a
last resort if possible.

----
Nathan McNulty


Chris S wrote:
> Well, I'm stumped. I just took an old 10 gig maxtor drive (ata) and
> put it in my SATA enclosure (which does pata/sata conversion). The
> drive shows up no problem. I formatted it as FAT32, but still, the
> two 'optimize' options on the 'policies' button are grayed out.
>
> This is somewhat consistent with my other tests, which have included
> 'native' SATA drives (though I can't afford to re-format the 'real'
> sata drive at the moment).
>
> I even took my USB memory stick, and was able to format it as NTFS,
> and it still had the two 'optimize' options available on the
> 'policies' tab, so NTFS/FAT don't appear to be the deciding factor
> here.
>
> The essence of the problem seems to be that my two SATA cards (one
> Adaptec/Silicon Image card, one Maxtor/Promise card) present
> themselves as SCSI adapters, and thus, disks connected to them are
> treated as SCSI disks.
>
> Do your SATA adapters and associated drives show up as SCSI devices?
>
> The only other variables I can think of are the specific settings in
> the 'disk management' applet; I could make it 'basic' or 'dynamic'
> (I've chosen both at various times, seems to make no difference),
> primary or extended (think I've tried both);
>
> I just spent $150 on a bunch of 6 foot external SATA cables, and
> internal sata connector posts (to provide 'female' sata connectors on
> back of computer) so I'd like to proceed with this, but at this point
> I'm running out of ideas!
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 00:06:05 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I will try to help as best as I can. I believe you need to have the
>>drive formatted as FAT32 to use Optimize for Quick Removal. This is
>>simply what I choose to use for my SATA drive. I would update the
>>chipset drivers, format the drive again, and then set the options right
>>there. XP will not format FAT32 larger than 32GB unless you use
>>something different to format it. I simply connected the drive
>>internally and used a Windows 98 Bootdisk. Your method may vary ;) 
>>
>>----
>>Nathan McNulty
>>
>>
>>Chris S wrote:
>>
>>>And still more info ... I just plugged my SATA drive into my XP Pro
>>>office computer (my home computer mentioned below is Windows 2000),
>>>which has a Maxtor SATA/150 PCI Card (which is a promise device under
>>>the covers). Going to the properties of the drive in this
>>>configuration, I do see a 'policies' tab, but when I select it, the
>>>two 'optimize...' options are grayed out, and the 'Optimize for
>>>performance' is the option selected. So I can't change it to 'optimze
>>>for quick removal' ....
>>>
>>>Stranger and stranger ... ;) 
>>>
>>>
>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 21:44:24 GMT, Chris S <cschofie@nospam.home.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Well, the plot thickens, as they say ... on my home system, when I
>>>>plug in my SATA drive, and go to it's properties (the same place where
>>>>I saw 'policies' on the USB drive below), I only see 'Disk Properties'
>>>>and 'SCSI Properties'. On the 'Disk Properties' tab, there is one
>>>>option - Write Cache enabled; it's grayed out and unchecked. On the
>>>>'SCSI Properties', there are two options: 'Disable tagged queueing'
>>>>and 'Disable synchronous transfers'. Both are available (i.e., not
>>>>grayed out), and bot are not checked.
>>>>
>>>>So the bottom line is, I don't have the 'policies' tab in the first
>>>>place, which is where you are going to set the various optimization
>>>>choices. How come my SATA drives are being treated as 'SCSI', while
>>>>yours are not? Is that the root cause here?
>>>>
>>>>My controller is an Adaptec 'SATA Connect' card, which shows up, under
>>>>device manager, as a SCSI device 'Adaptec Serial ATA 1205SA Host
>>>>Controller', and it's control panel applet says it's a Sil 3112 Rev 2
>>>>device.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:31:29 -0700, Chris S <myname@see.signature.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Thanks Nathan. Is the setting of FAT32 a pre-condition to getting the
>>>>>'Optimize for Quick Removal', or am I formatting as FAT32 for another
>>>>>reason? I don't believe I have any compelling reason to go with NTFS
>>>>>with these particular drives so if that's the trick, I'll certainly go
>>>>>with it.
>>>>>
>>>>>I just popped in a USB memory stick, and went to the 'policies' tab,
>>>>>and the two choices/explanations are as follows:
>>>>>1) "Optimize for Quick Removal - This setting disables write caching
>>>>>on the disk and in Windows, so you can disconnect this device without
>>>>>using the Safe Removal icon"
>>>>>2) "Optimize for performance - This setting enables write caching in
>>>>>Windows to improve disk performance. To disconnect this device from
>>>>>the computer, click the 'Safely Remove Hardware' icon in the taskbar
>>>>>notification area".
>>>>>
>>>>>So ... this suggests it's perfectly OK to go with either option, it's
>>>>>just that, if you choose 'performance', you need to 'safely remove'
>>>>>the device first. Is the very appearance of that 'safely remove
>>>>>hardware' icon in the taskbar restricted to FAT32 devices?
>>>>>
>>>>>I'll go home and play with this for a while and report back ...
>>>>>thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:01:30 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>You have a couple of options. First would be to format the drive as
>>>>>>FAT32, which you may or may not want to do. Second, you will need to
>>>>>>change the way the device is set up. Connect the device, open Device
>>>>>>Manager, double click on the hard drive in question, click the Policies
>>>>>>Tab, then set it to Optimize for Quick Removal. I use FAT32 on my
>>>>>>removeable SATA drives and set them to Optimize for Quick Removal, but
>>>>>>you may be able to do it differently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----
>>>>>>Nathan McNulty
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Chris S wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>SATA drives are theoretically hot swappable; the power and data
>>>>>>>connectors are designed for 'hot' removal, with ground wires
>>>>>>>connecting first, and the interface is designed to deal with the
>>>>>>>various surge issues - this is well known.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've used several USB 2.0 external drives, and before you remove them,
>>>>>>>you are supposed to 'stop' them; presumably to flush any delayed
>>>>>>>writes that may be in progress, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>But when I plug in a SATA drive, it does not show up as a device to be
>>>>>>>'safely removed' in the 'Safely Remove Hardware' applet that shows up
>>>>>>>if I plug in a USB device.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've done some tests; when I plug in a SATA drive (a data drive,
>>>>>>>obviously, not a boot drive), a new hard drive shows up, no problem.
>>>>>>>I can read and write to this drive, no problem. And if I unplug it,
>>>>>>>or power it down, the drive letter simply disappears - no error
>>>>>>>messages or warnings whatsoever. All sounds good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>HOWEVER, I could not find a file that I had written to the drive.
>>>>>>>This has all the markings of a write-cached file not being written to
>>>>>>>the device. So it occurred to me that, somehow, I should be able to
>>>>>>>'stop', or 'dismount', or otherwise 'software disconnect' this drive
>>>>>>>before I actually remove it. But the only relevant option I can find
>>>>>>>for the device is to disable write caching - is that what I should be
>>>>>>>doing? I'd rather not do that as it will generally slow down
>>>>>>>performance, but if it is the only way to guarantee data integrity,
>>>>>>>that's what I'll do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've seen posts from others that indicate this is a regular practice,
>>>>>>>so I just wondered, how do I guarantee my files have been 'flushed'
>>>>>>>before removing the drive?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>>>>>
>>>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>>>>
>>>>===========
>>>>Remove 'nospam' from email to reply - Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>
>
> For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 7:13:31 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

OK, good - so SCSI is the clue here. The funny thing is ... I have
two computers at home and one at work that I'm setting up in this
manner, different mobo brands, different OSs, different SATA cards,
etc and they are all showing up with SCSI controllers.

So please tell me, Nathan: in device manager, on your system, where
DOES the SATA controller show up - what label, etc? Knowing that
would help!

At home, I have an Asus P4PE and an Asus P4B533, both with Win 2K.
Had 'latest' chipset drivers as of a year ago, but I'll check again.
One has a built-in Promise Fastrack SATA controller which I quit using
because it didn't pass SMART info.

At work, I have a Dell Dimension, very new (3.4 GHz), no idea about
chipset drivers but I'll see what I can download from dell. This is
Win XP Pro.

The home machines have the Adaptec/Silicon Image SATA card, and the
work machine has the Maxtor/Promise SATA card.

In device manager, the SATA cards show up under the heading of 'SCSI
and RAID controlllers' - on all three machines, two different OS's,
two SATA card brands!

So knowing what I 'should' see in device manager will give me
something to aim for!

Thanks!

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 01:17:35 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
wrote:

>Things showing up as SCSI is just odd. I have nothing like this on my
>system. I would go into Device Manager (Start-Run-devmgmt.msc) and
>remove these devices. Install the latest chipset drivers and reboot.
>If after installing the latest chipset drivers and a clean configuration
>of the drives it doesn't work, I would try a fresh install of XP as a
>last resort if possible.
>
>----
>Nathan McNulty
>
>
>Chris S wrote:
>> Well, I'm stumped. I just took an old 10 gig maxtor drive (ata) and
>> put it in my SATA enclosure (which does pata/sata conversion). The
>> drive shows up no problem. I formatted it as FAT32, but still, the
>> two 'optimize' options on the 'policies' button are grayed out.
>>
>> This is somewhat consistent with my other tests, which have included
>> 'native' SATA drives (though I can't afford to re-format the 'real'
>> sata drive at the moment).
>>
>> I even took my USB memory stick, and was able to format it as NTFS,
>> and it still had the two 'optimize' options available on the
>> 'policies' tab, so NTFS/FAT don't appear to be the deciding factor
>> here.
>>
>> The essence of the problem seems to be that my two SATA cards (one
>> Adaptec/Silicon Image card, one Maxtor/Promise card) present
>> themselves as SCSI adapters, and thus, disks connected to them are
>> treated as SCSI disks.
>>
>> Do your SATA adapters and associated drives show up as SCSI devices?
>>
>> The only other variables I can think of are the specific settings in
>> the 'disk management' applet; I could make it 'basic' or 'dynamic'
>> (I've chosen both at various times, seems to make no difference),
>> primary or extended (think I've tried both);
>>
>> I just spent $150 on a bunch of 6 foot external SATA cables, and
>> internal sata connector posts (to provide 'female' sata connectors on
>> back of computer) so I'd like to proceed with this, but at this point
>> I'm running out of ideas!
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 00:06:05 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I will try to help as best as I can. I believe you need to have the
>>>drive formatted as FAT32 to use Optimize for Quick Removal. This is
>>>simply what I choose to use for my SATA drive. I would update the
>>>chipset drivers, format the drive again, and then set the options right
>>>there. XP will not format FAT32 larger than 32GB unless you use
>>>something different to format it. I simply connected the drive
>>>internally and used a Windows 98 Bootdisk. Your method may vary ;) 
>>>
>>>----
>>>Nathan McNulty
>>>
>>>
>>>Chris S wrote:
>>>
>>>>And still more info ... I just plugged my SATA drive into my XP Pro
>>>>office computer (my home computer mentioned below is Windows 2000),
>>>>which has a Maxtor SATA/150 PCI Card (which is a promise device under
>>>>the covers). Going to the properties of the drive in this
>>>>configuration, I do see a 'policies' tab, but when I select it, the
>>>>two 'optimize...' options are grayed out, and the 'Optimize for
>>>>performance' is the option selected. So I can't change it to 'optimze
>>>>for quick removal' ....
>>>>
>>>>Stranger and stranger ... ;) 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 21:44:24 GMT, Chris S <cschofie@nospam.home.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Well, the plot thickens, as they say ... on my home system, when I
>>>>>plug in my SATA drive, and go to it's properties (the same place where
>>>>>I saw 'policies' on the USB drive below), I only see 'Disk Properties'
>>>>>and 'SCSI Properties'. On the 'Disk Properties' tab, there is one
>>>>>option - Write Cache enabled; it's grayed out and unchecked. On the
>>>>>'SCSI Properties', there are two options: 'Disable tagged queueing'
>>>>>and 'Disable synchronous transfers'. Both are available (i.e., not
>>>>>grayed out), and bot are not checked.
>>>>>
>>>>>So the bottom line is, I don't have the 'policies' tab in the first
>>>>>place, which is where you are going to set the various optimization
>>>>>choices. How come my SATA drives are being treated as 'SCSI', while
>>>>>yours are not? Is that the root cause here?
>>>>>
>>>>>My controller is an Adaptec 'SATA Connect' card, which shows up, under
>>>>>device manager, as a SCSI device 'Adaptec Serial ATA 1205SA Host
>>>>>Controller', and it's control panel applet says it's a Sil 3112 Rev 2
>>>>>device.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:31:29 -0700, Chris S <myname@see.signature.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks Nathan. Is the setting of FAT32 a pre-condition to getting the
>>>>>>'Optimize for Quick Removal', or am I formatting as FAT32 for another
>>>>>>reason? I don't believe I have any compelling reason to go with NTFS
>>>>>>with these particular drives so if that's the trick, I'll certainly go
>>>>>>with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I just popped in a USB memory stick, and went to the 'policies' tab,
>>>>>>and the two choices/explanations are as follows:
>>>>>>1) "Optimize for Quick Removal - This setting disables write caching
>>>>>>on the disk and in Windows, so you can disconnect this device without
>>>>>>using the Safe Removal icon"
>>>>>>2) "Optimize for performance - This setting enables write caching in
>>>>>>Windows to improve disk performance. To disconnect this device from
>>>>>>the computer, click the 'Safely Remove Hardware' icon in the taskbar
>>>>>>notification area".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So ... this suggests it's perfectly OK to go with either option, it's
>>>>>>just that, if you choose 'performance', you need to 'safely remove'
>>>>>>the device first. Is the very appearance of that 'safely remove
>>>>>>hardware' icon in the taskbar restricted to FAT32 devices?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'll go home and play with this for a while and report back ...
>>>>>>thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:01:30 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You have a couple of options. First would be to format the drive as
>>>>>>>FAT32, which you may or may not want to do. Second, you will need to
>>>>>>>change the way the device is set up. Connect the device, open Device
>>>>>>>Manager, double click on the hard drive in question, click the Policies
>>>>>>>Tab, then set it to Optimize for Quick Removal. I use FAT32 on my
>>>>>>>removeable SATA drives and set them to Optimize for Quick Removal, but
>>>>>>>you may be able to do it differently.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----
>>>>>>>Nathan McNulty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Chris S wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>SATA drives are theoretically hot swappable; the power and data
>>>>>>>>connectors are designed for 'hot' removal, with ground wires
>>>>>>>>connecting first, and the interface is designed to deal with the
>>>>>>>>various surge issues - this is well known.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I've used several USB 2.0 external drives, and before you remove them,
>>>>>>>>you are supposed to 'stop' them; presumably to flush any delayed
>>>>>>>>writes that may be in progress, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>But when I plug in a SATA drive, it does not show up as a device to be
>>>>>>>>'safely removed' in the 'Safely Remove Hardware' applet that shows up
>>>>>>>>if I plug in a USB device.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I've done some tests; when I plug in a SATA drive (a data drive,
>>>>>>>>obviously, not a boot drive), a new hard drive shows up, no problem.
>>>>>>>>I can read and write to this drive, no problem. And if I unplug it,
>>>>>>>>or power it down, the drive letter simply disappears - no error
>>>>>>>>messages or warnings whatsoever. All sounds good.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>HOWEVER, I could not find a file that I had written to the drive.
>>>>>>>>This has all the markings of a write-cached file not being written to
>>>>>>>>the device. So it occurred to me that, somehow, I should be able to
>>>>>>>>'stop', or 'dismount', or otherwise 'software disconnect' this drive
>>>>>>>>before I actually remove it. But the only relevant option I can find
>>>>>>>>for the device is to disable write caching - is that what I should be
>>>>>>>>doing? I'd rather not do that as it will generally slow down
>>>>>>>>performance, but if it is the only way to guarantee data integrity,
>>>>>>>>that's what I'll do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I've seen posts from others that indicate this is a regular practice,
>>>>>>>>so I just wondered, how do I guarantee my files have been 'flushed'
>>>>>>>>before removing the drive?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>>>>>
>>>>>===========
>>>>>Remove 'nospam' from email to reply - Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>>
>>
>> For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.

===========
Remove 'nospam' from email to reply - Thanks
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 7:13:32 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

First, my SATA controller is onboard since I have an ASUS P4P800
Motherboard. I don't see anything listed as SATA or SCSI, but I do see
Intel(R) 82801EB Ultra ATA Storage Controllers and my drive is showing
under the second Primary IDE Channel. When I open the properties of the
drive for my internal, I am offered to uncheck Write Behind Caching, but
that is it. For my external, it offers whatever I want.

Try installing these chipset drivers and see if they help:
http://www.guru3d.com/newsitem.php?id=1671

You may have an old version of the drivers that don't fully support SATA
Storage. Also, you can try Intel Application Accelerator to make
changes to your drive instead of Windows. You can get that here:
ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/4857/eng/iaa23_e...

----
Nathan McNulty

Chris S wrote:
> OK, good - so SCSI is the clue here. The funny thing is ... I have
> two computers at home and one at work that I'm setting up in this
> manner, different mobo brands, different OSs, different SATA cards,
> etc and they are all showing up with SCSI controllers.
>
> So please tell me, Nathan: in device manager, on your system, where
> DOES the SATA controller show up - what label, etc? Knowing that
> would help!
>
> At home, I have an Asus P4PE and an Asus P4B533, both with Win 2K.
> Had 'latest' chipset drivers as of a year ago, but I'll check again.
> One has a built-in Promise Fastrack SATA controller which I quit using
> because it didn't pass SMART info.
>
> At work, I have a Dell Dimension, very new (3.4 GHz), no idea about
> chipset drivers but I'll see what I can download from dell. This is
> Win XP Pro.
>
> The home machines have the Adaptec/Silicon Image SATA card, and the
> work machine has the Maxtor/Promise SATA card.
>
> In device manager, the SATA cards show up under the heading of 'SCSI
> and RAID controlllers' - on all three machines, two different OS's,
> two SATA card brands!
>
> So knowing what I 'should' see in device manager will give me
> something to aim for!
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 01:17:35 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Things showing up as SCSI is just odd. I have nothing like this on my
>>system. I would go into Device Manager (Start-Run-devmgmt.msc) and
>>remove these devices. Install the latest chipset drivers and reboot.
>>If after installing the latest chipset drivers and a clean configuration
>>of the drives it doesn't work, I would try a fresh install of XP as a
>>last resort if possible.
>>
>>----
>>Nathan McNulty
>>
>>
>>Chris S wrote:
>>
>>>Well, I'm stumped. I just took an old 10 gig maxtor drive (ata) and
>>>put it in my SATA enclosure (which does pata/sata conversion). The
>>>drive shows up no problem. I formatted it as FAT32, but still, the
>>>two 'optimize' options on the 'policies' button are grayed out.
>>>
>>>This is somewhat consistent with my other tests, which have included
>>>'native' SATA drives (though I can't afford to re-format the 'real'
>>>sata drive at the moment).
>>>
>>>I even took my USB memory stick, and was able to format it as NTFS,
>>>and it still had the two 'optimize' options available on the
>>>'policies' tab, so NTFS/FAT don't appear to be the deciding factor
>>>here.
>>>
>>>The essence of the problem seems to be that my two SATA cards (one
>>>Adaptec/Silicon Image card, one Maxtor/Promise card) present
>>>themselves as SCSI adapters, and thus, disks connected to them are
>>>treated as SCSI disks.
>>>
>>>Do your SATA adapters and associated drives show up as SCSI devices?
>>>
>>>The only other variables I can think of are the specific settings in
>>>the 'disk management' applet; I could make it 'basic' or 'dynamic'
>>>(I've chosen both at various times, seems to make no difference),
>>>primary or extended (think I've tried both);
>>>
>>>I just spent $150 on a bunch of 6 foot external SATA cables, and
>>>internal sata connector posts (to provide 'female' sata connectors on
>>>back of computer) so I'd like to proceed with this, but at this point
>>>I'm running out of ideas!
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>
>>>On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 00:06:05 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I will try to help as best as I can. I believe you need to have the
>>>>drive formatted as FAT32 to use Optimize for Quick Removal. This is
>>>>simply what I choose to use for my SATA drive. I would update the
>>>>chipset drivers, format the drive again, and then set the options right
>>>>there. XP will not format FAT32 larger than 32GB unless you use
>>>>something different to format it. I simply connected the drive
>>>>internally and used a Windows 98 Bootdisk. Your method may vary ;) 
>>>>
>>>>----
>>>>Nathan McNulty
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Chris S wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>And still more info ... I just plugged my SATA drive into my XP Pro
>>>>>office computer (my home computer mentioned below is Windows 2000),
>>>>>which has a Maxtor SATA/150 PCI Card (which is a promise device under
>>>>>the covers). Going to the properties of the drive in this
>>>>>configuration, I do see a 'policies' tab, but when I select it, the
>>>>>two 'optimize...' options are grayed out, and the 'Optimize for
>>>>>performance' is the option selected. So I can't change it to 'optimze
>>>>>for quick removal' ....
>>>>>
>>>>>Stranger and stranger ... ;) 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 21:44:24 GMT, Chris S <cschofie@nospam.home.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, the plot thickens, as they say ... on my home system, when I
>>>>>>plug in my SATA drive, and go to it's properties (the same place where
>>>>>>I saw 'policies' on the USB drive below), I only see 'Disk Properties'
>>>>>>and 'SCSI Properties'. On the 'Disk Properties' tab, there is one
>>>>>>option - Write Cache enabled; it's grayed out and unchecked. On the
>>>>>>'SCSI Properties', there are two options: 'Disable tagged queueing'
>>>>>>and 'Disable synchronous transfers'. Both are available (i.e., not
>>>>>>grayed out), and bot are not checked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So the bottom line is, I don't have the 'policies' tab in the first
>>>>>>place, which is where you are going to set the various optimization
>>>>>>choices. How come my SATA drives are being treated as 'SCSI', while
>>>>>>yours are not? Is that the root cause here?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My controller is an Adaptec 'SATA Connect' card, which shows up, under
>>>>>>device manager, as a SCSI device 'Adaptec Serial ATA 1205SA Host
>>>>>>Controller', and it's control panel applet says it's a Sil 3112 Rev 2
>>>>>>device.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 09:31:29 -0700, Chris S <myname@see.signature.com>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks Nathan. Is the setting of FAT32 a pre-condition to getting the
>>>>>>>'Optimize for Quick Removal', or am I formatting as FAT32 for another
>>>>>>>reason? I don't believe I have any compelling reason to go with NTFS
>>>>>>>with these particular drives so if that's the trick, I'll certainly go
>>>>>>>with it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I just popped in a USB memory stick, and went to the 'policies' tab,
>>>>>>>and the two choices/explanations are as follows:
>>>>>>>1) "Optimize for Quick Removal - This setting disables write caching
>>>>>>>on the disk and in Windows, so you can disconnect this device without
>>>>>>>using the Safe Removal icon"
>>>>>>>2) "Optimize for performance - This setting enables write caching in
>>>>>>>Windows to improve disk performance. To disconnect this device from
>>>>>>>the computer, click the 'Safely Remove Hardware' icon in the taskbar
>>>>>>>notification area".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So ... this suggests it's perfectly OK to go with either option, it's
>>>>>>>just that, if you choose 'performance', you need to 'safely remove'
>>>>>>>the device first. Is the very appearance of that 'safely remove
>>>>>>>hardware' icon in the taskbar restricted to FAT32 devices?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'll go home and play with this for a while and report back ...
>>>>>>>thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 00:01:30 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You have a couple of options. First would be to format the drive as
>>>>>>>>FAT32, which you may or may not want to do. Second, you will need to
>>>>>>>>change the way the device is set up. Connect the device, open Device
>>>>>>>>Manager, double click on the hard drive in question, click the Policies
>>>>>>>>Tab, then set it to Optimize for Quick Removal. I use FAT32 on my
>>>>>>>>removeable SATA drives and set them to Optimize for Quick Removal, but
>>>>>>>>you may be able to do it differently.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----
>>>>>>>>Nathan McNulty
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Chris S wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>SATA drives are theoretically hot swappable; the power and data
>>>>>>>>>connectors are designed for 'hot' removal, with ground wires
>>>>>>>>>connecting first, and the interface is designed to deal with the
>>>>>>>>>various surge issues - this is well known.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I've used several USB 2.0 external drives, and before you remove them,
>>>>>>>>>you are supposed to 'stop' them; presumably to flush any delayed
>>>>>>>>>writes that may be in progress, etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>But when I plug in a SATA drive, it does not show up as a device to be
>>>>>>>>>'safely removed' in the 'Safely Remove Hardware' applet that shows up
>>>>>>>>>if I plug in a USB device.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I've done some tests; when I plug in a SATA drive (a data drive,
>>>>>>>>>obviously, not a boot drive), a new hard drive shows up, no problem.
>>>>>>>>>I can read and write to this drive, no problem. And if I unplug it,
>>>>>>>>>or power it down, the drive letter simply disappears - no error
>>>>>>>>>messages or warnings whatsoever. All sounds good.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>HOWEVER, I could not find a file that I had written to the drive.
>>>>>>>>>This has all the markings of a write-cached file not being written to
>>>>>>>>>the device. So it occurred to me that, somehow, I should be able to
>>>>>>>>>'stop', or 'dismount', or otherwise 'software disconnect' this drive
>>>>>>>>>before I actually remove it. But the only relevant option I can find
>>>>>>>>>for the device is to disable write caching - is that what I should be
>>>>>>>>>doing? I'd rather not do that as it will generally slow down
>>>>>>>>>performance, but if it is the only way to guarantee data integrity,
>>>>>>>>>that's what I'll do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I've seen posts from others that indicate this is a regular practice,
>>>>>>>>>so I just wondered, how do I guarantee my files have been 'flushed'
>>>>>>>>>before removing the drive?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>===========
>>>>>>Remove 'nospam' from email to reply - Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>>>
>>>
>>>For email, send to chris at panties domain dot com, Remove panties and replace domain with attbi.
>
>
> ===========
> Remove 'nospam' from email to reply - Thanks
Anonymous
September 7, 2004 6:26:21 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

And you don't have to tell it to disable, or uninstall, or anything like
that? You just unplug it and it is fine? Can you plug another or the same
drive in without rebooting?

I used Intel D865GBFLK motherboards in the servers and they have 2 on-board
SATA ports running off of the ICH5 southbridge, and I tried to hot swap with
them but it didnt work. Now, I suppose the difference could be the ICH5R
apparently has some difference in the SATA since it supports RAID while the
plain ICH 5 does not. It could also be that one supports hot swap while the
other does not. I sure wish I could confirm that before I purchased another
$500 in motherboards and video cards. The boards I have now have on-board
video, and unfortunately Intel doesn't seem to make an ICH5R board with
on-board graphics. I would really prefer to stick with Intel if possible.

If it fixes the problem it would be worth it, but I hate to spend that much
and be right back where I am right now.

Brian Taylor


"Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
news:o maRsQQlEHA.2528@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Using the ICHR5 chipset on Windows XP MCE (just an addon to
> Professional). The motherboard is an ASUS P4P800. Don't need a specific
> driver (unless you are talking about chipset drivers in which case I am
> using the Intel INF Update Utility 6.0.1.1006 WHQL drivers) since it
> isn't RAID and it is just using one of the onboard ports.
>
> ----
> Nathan McNulty
>
>
> Brian Taylor wrote:
> > I am in the exact same predicament. I have 3 low end hand built
> > servers where I am using a Promise S150 SX4 controller to run 4 bays
> > of a SuperMicro 5 bay hot swap backplane. Those 4 are working fine,
> > but the fifth bay was intended to be used for backup and is running
> > off an Addonics EI PCI host controller (based on the SI3112 SATA
> > controller).
> >
> > When inserting a drive, the safe removal icon does not come up in the
> > systray, but when I remove the drive I get the "Unsafe Removal of
> > Device" dialog, and sometimes I get the "delayed write failed" dialog.
> > In Windows 2000 Server the "Disble Write Caching" box is unchecked
> > and grayed out. And under Windows 2003 Standard "Optimize for
> > Performance" is filled in and both settings a grayed out.
> >
> > It was my hope that the people that will be swapping the hard drives
> > would not have to log in and mess around, but it looks like in order
> > to do that I am going to have to use something like FireWire external
> > enclosures for the drives. That is workable, but it costs more and I
> > already have foam lined cases for these drives with their hot swap
> > rails, and I really thought this was going to work.
> >
> > If anyone has successfully done this please post with what OS,
> > controller, and driver you have used because it is driving me crazy.
> >
> > Brian Taylor
> >
> >
> > Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
news:<ekkmINHlEHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>...
> >
> >>Dang. I don't know what to do with that SCSI part. I have no way to
> >>test the scenerio though I do have Windows 2000 Workstation and Server
> >>(any flavor) that I could throw on, it won't matter since I don't have a
> >>PCI SATA Card :( 
> >>
> >>Have you tried a clean install of Windows and go from there? That would
> >>be my last resort (and make a good ghost image of your current setup so
> >>you can recover it if needed on top of backing everything up).
> >>
> >>----
> >>Nathan McNulty
> >>
> >>
> >>Chris S wrote:
> >>
> >>>No. In device manager, under 'Disk Drives', if I dbl-click the drive
> >>>in question, there are four tabs (this is on my Win2k system at home)
> >>>- General, Disk Properties, SCSI Properties, and Driver. On the 'Disk
> >>>Properties' tab, there is only one check box, and it is grayed out -
> >>>'Write cache enabled' (it's not selected either, though since it's
> >>>grayed out, that could mean nothing). On the 'SCSI Properties' tab, I
> >>>have two choices - Disable tagged queueing, and Disable synchronous
> >>>transfers. Neither are checked, but neither apply to write caching.
> >>>And that's it for options.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks !
> >>>
Anonymous
September 7, 2004 6:26:22 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

What drivers are you using? You may just not have the drivers that have
added this SATA Support. I know it didn't work for me with the drivers
that came with my motherboard, but the latest drivers work. I do have
to use the Safeley Remove Hardware Icon, but I have never had any
errors. We use something similar to this:
http://www.circotech.com/mb122sk-serial-ata150-removabl...

I am not sure about Windows 2000 since I use XP. But I can unplug the
drive while Windows is running without problems and then plug it back in
later and it works fine. Now I did mess things up by unplugging the
drive while in suspend mode, then added data, and plugged it back in and
resumed. Not a good idea :( 

What do you mean by it didn't work when you tried it? Did the system
reboot? Which drives were you trying to pull out? You can't unplug the
system or boot drive. Only a secondary drive that is not part of a RAID
setup can be unplugged while Windows is running.

----
Nathan McNulty

Brian Taylor wrote:
> And you don't have to tell it to disable, or uninstall, or anything like
> that? You just unplug it and it is fine? Can you plug another or the same
> drive in without rebooting?
>
> I used Intel D865GBFLK motherboards in the servers and they have 2 on-board
> SATA ports running off of the ICH5 southbridge, and I tried to hot swap with
> them but it didnt work. Now, I suppose the difference could be the ICH5R
> apparently has some difference in the SATA since it supports RAID while the
> plain ICH 5 does not. It could also be that one supports hot swap while the
> other does not. I sure wish I could confirm that before I purchased another
> $500 in motherboards and video cards. The boards I have now have on-board
> video, and unfortunately Intel doesn't seem to make an ICH5R board with
> on-board graphics. I would really prefer to stick with Intel if possible.
>
> If it fixes the problem it would be worth it, but I hate to spend that much
> and be right back where I am right now.
>
> Brian Taylor
>
>
> "Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:o maRsQQlEHA.2528@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>
>>Using the ICHR5 chipset on Windows XP MCE (just an addon to
>>Professional). The motherboard is an ASUS P4P800. Don't need a specific
>>driver (unless you are talking about chipset drivers in which case I am
>>using the Intel INF Update Utility 6.0.1.1006 WHQL drivers) since it
>>isn't RAID and it is just using one of the onboard ports.
>>
>>----
>>Nathan McNulty
>>
>>
>>Brian Taylor wrote:
>>
>>>I am in the exact same predicament. I have 3 low end hand built
>>>servers where I am using a Promise S150 SX4 controller to run 4 bays
>>>of a SuperMicro 5 bay hot swap backplane. Those 4 are working fine,
>>>but the fifth bay was intended to be used for backup and is running
>>>off an Addonics EI PCI host controller (based on the SI3112 SATA
>>>controller).
>>>
>>>When inserting a drive, the safe removal icon does not come up in the
>>>systray, but when I remove the drive I get the "Unsafe Removal of
>>>Device" dialog, and sometimes I get the "delayed write failed" dialog.
>>> In Windows 2000 Server the "Disble Write Caching" box is unchecked
>>>and grayed out. And under Windows 2003 Standard "Optimize for
>>>Performance" is filled in and both settings a grayed out.
>>>
>>>It was my hope that the people that will be swapping the hard drives
>>>would not have to log in and mess around, but it looks like in order
>>>to do that I am going to have to use something like FireWire external
>>>enclosures for the drives. That is workable, but it costs more and I
>>>already have foam lined cases for these drives with their hot swap
>>>rails, and I really thought this was going to work.
>>>
>>>If anyone has successfully done this please post with what OS,
>>>controller, and driver you have used because it is driving me crazy.
>>>
>>>Brian Taylor
>>>
>>>
>>>Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
>
> news:<ekkmINHlEHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl>...
>
>>>>Dang. I don't know what to do with that SCSI part. I have no way to
>>>>test the scenerio though I do have Windows 2000 Workstation and Server
>>>>(any flavor) that I could throw on, it won't matter since I don't have a
>>>>PCI SATA Card :( 
>>>>
>>>>Have you tried a clean install of Windows and go from there? That would
>>>>be my last resort (and make a good ghost image of your current setup so
>>>>you can recover it if needed on top of backing everything up).
>>>>
>>>>----
>>>>Nathan McNulty
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Chris S wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>No. In device manager, under 'Disk Drives', if I dbl-click the drive
>>>>>in question, there are four tabs (this is on my Win2k system at home)
>>>>>- General, Disk Properties, SCSI Properties, and Driver. On the 'Disk
>>>>>Properties' tab, there is only one check box, and it is grayed out -
>>>>>'Write cache enabled' (it's not selected either, though since it's
>>>>>grayed out, that could mean nothing). On the 'SCSI Properties' tab, I
>>>>>have two choices - Disable tagged queueing, and Disable synchronous
>>>>>transfers. Neither are checked, but neither apply to write caching.
>>>>>And that's it for options.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks !
>>>>>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 7:30:33 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Another tidbit:

On the product page for an addonics external drive
http://www.addonics.com/products/combo_hdd/aechdsa35-r....
they have this comment and footnote:

"...
Hot swappable (1), hard drive can be removed or add to the system
without restarting*

(1) Serial ATA hot swap feature works only with controllers basing on
Silicon Image chip set from our inhouse testing. Other controllers
that are not Silicon Image based may not support hot swap. ... New
controllers from Intel and other suppliers may finally correct the
problem. ..."

And that's exactly what I've found ... using my Silicon Image-based
Adaptec SATA card, I can hot swap; using my promise-based Maxtor SATA
card, I cannot. Postings here also confirm that some intel chipsets
support hot swap now too.

I'll continue testing and researching this.



On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:39:00 GMT, Chris S <cschofie@nospam.home.com>
wrote:

>Well, finally some good news to report!

===========
Remove 'nospam' from email to reply - Thanks
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 7:30:34 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Thanks for the update :) 

Another great thing is that ALL of the SATA300 PCI-E cards I have seen
all support hot swap fully. Hopefully this time around they won't have
some that partly work, or don't support it at all.

----
Nathan McNulty


Chris S wrote:
> Another tidbit:
>
> On the product page for an addonics external drive
> http://www.addonics.com/products/combo_hdd/aechdsa35-r....
> they have this comment and footnote:
>
> "...
> Hot swappable (1), hard drive can be removed or add to the system
> without restarting*
>
> (1) Serial ATA hot swap feature works only with controllers basing on
> Silicon Image chip set from our inhouse testing. Other controllers
> that are not Silicon Image based may not support hot swap. ... New
> controllers from Intel and other suppliers may finally correct the
> problem. ..."
>
> And that's exactly what I've found ... using my Silicon Image-based
> Adaptec SATA card, I can hot swap; using my promise-based Maxtor SATA
> card, I cannot. Postings here also confirm that some intel chipsets
> support hot swap now too.
>
> I'll continue testing and researching this.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:39:00 GMT, Chris S <cschofie@nospam.home.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Well, finally some good news to report!
>
>
> ===========
> Remove 'nospam' from email to reply - Thanks
Anonymous
September 14, 2004 7:39:57 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Another tidbit I found ... From Silicon Image's website:

Here's the url, but it didn't work when I re-tested it just now:
http://12.24.47.40/display/2/kb/article.asp?aid=10744

So this is further confirmation that you must disable the drive before
removing.

(extract follows):
======================
SATA: Hot Plugging Drives Under Windows 2000/XP
This feature is not explicitly highlighted in our current drivers, but
all SATA controllers from Silicon Image do support hot plug
capability. To remove a drive from a powered up system, do the
following:

Enter the Windows Device Manager (through Control Panel or right
clicking on My Computer and going to Properties)
Go to Disk Drives and find the disk you want to remove
Right click on the desired disk drive and select Remove/Disable
After performing this operation, you can remove the hard drive without
risk of losing any data that is currently stored in cache memory.

To plug in a new SATA drive in the array, you just need to plug in the
power and serial cables and Windows will automatically detect the new
HD. NOTE: If you are re-attaching a drive after a remove operation as
explained above, you must make sure that the HD is power cycled (power
cable unplugged) before re-attaching the HD serial data cable.
================= (End extract).


On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:02:19 -0700, Nathan McNulty <nospam@msn.com>
wrote:

>Thanks for the update :) 
>
>Another great thing is that ALL of the SATA300 PCI-E cards I have seen
>all support hot swap fully. Hopefully this time around they won't have
>some that partly work, or don't support it at all.
>
>----
>Nathan McNulty
>
>
>Chris S wrote:
>> Another tidbit:
>>
>> On the product page for an addonics external drive
>> http://www.addonics.com/products/combo_hdd/aechdsa35-r....
>> they have this comment and footnote:
>>
>> "...
>> Hot swappable (1), hard drive can be removed or add to the system
>> without restarting*
>>
>> (1) Serial ATA hot swap feature works only with controllers basing on
>> Silicon Image chip set from our inhouse testing. Other controllers
>> that are not Silicon Image based may not support hot swap. ... New
>> controllers from Intel and other suppliers may finally correct the
>> problem. ..."
>>
>> And that's exactly what I've found ... using my Silicon Image-based
>> Adaptec SATA card, I can hot swap; using my promise-based Maxtor SATA
>> card, I cannot. Postings here also confirm that some intel chipsets
>> support hot swap now too.
>>
>> I'll continue testing and researching this.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:39:00 GMT, Chris S <cschofie@nospam.home.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Well, finally some good news to report!
>>
>>
>> ===========
>> Remove 'nospam' from email to reply - Thanks

===========
Remove 'nospam' from email to reply - Thanks
!