Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

I'm currently using Northwood 3Ghz CPUs in P4T-E and P4C800-E.
I'm trying to figure out the tradeoffs between various models of
7000 series and 7700 series coolers. Also between Cu vs CuAl.
The primary objective is to lower the noise level. I don't need to
overclock.

1: Will the 7700 fit in Asus P4T-E? In P4C800-E Deluxe?

2: Is there a big difference in the 7000 vs 7700 re noise level?

3: Is there a big tradeoff in heatsinking capability with the AlCu?
(I'd like to keep the heatsink light, as long as it's still effective)

Thanks for your comments

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <7r7v91toej719tomcn3ong6hg2sruo5f10@4ax.com>, "_|_|_"
<_|_|_@nomail.org> wrote:

> I'm currently using Northwood 3Ghz CPUs in P4T-E and P4C800-E.
> I'm trying to figure out the tradeoffs between various models of
> 7000 series and 7700 series coolers. Also between Cu vs CuAl.
> The primary objective is to lower the noise level. I don't need to
> overclock.
>
> 1: Will the 7700 fit in Asus P4T-E? In P4C800-E Deluxe?
>
> 2: Is there a big difference in the 7000 vs 7700 re noise level?
>
> 3: Is there a big tradeoff in heatsinking capability with the AlCu?
> (I'd like to keep the heatsink light, as long as it's still effective)
>
> Thanks for your comments

From the zalman.co.kr web site:

7000AlCu 0.22-0.29C/W 18-27dB noise
7000Cu 0.20-0.27C/W
7700AlCu 0.21-0.28C/W 20-32dB noise
7700Cu 0.19-0.24C/W

Using a 100W processor, fan at full speed, the worst of the above is
3C warmer than the best of the above. A 3.06Ghz processor is 82 watts.
0.22 * 82 = 18C rise.

Mechanical clearance:
39mm height 7000 = 55mm radius, 7700 = 68mm radius

P4T-E (use a drawing tool, import mobo picture, overlay heatsink radius)

Both solutions pass over the RAM, so the RAM, when sitting in the
socket, must be less than 39mm (1.53" ). The 7000 blocks one slot,
the 7700 blocks two slots, so removal of the RAM with the heatsink
in place might be a problem. I have no idea how tall your RAM is.

The 7700 passes over the rear connector stack, and also passes over
top of the Northbridge. So the connector stack and the Northbridge
heatsink have to be less than 1.53" high.

No problem in either case with the PSU - not even close.

P4C800-E (import mobo picture, overlay heatsink radius)

The 7000 fits, because that is what I use. The 7000 just passes over
the edge of the Northbridge heatsink, and has clearance to it.
The 7700 would be getting close to the rear connecor stacks, and
definitely passes over a portion of the Northbridge. I would not
be able to fit a 7700 in my case, because my rear case fan would
bump into the fins (I use a 120x120x37mm fan). For both devices,
there is no problem with the PSU, because both solutions stay
within the board profile.

In conclusion, there isn't too much difference between solutions.
In the P4T-E, clearance of RAM slots could be an issue. If you do
your own scale drawing, it should be reasonably easy to see what
will happen. Both boards are 9.6" wide, and that is what I used
as my scale.

Paul

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:01:34 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>In article <7r7v91toej719tomcn3ong6hg2sruo5f10@4ax.com>, "_|_|_"
><_|_|_@nomail.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm currently using Northwood 3Ghz CPUs in P4T-E and P4C800-E.
>> I'm trying to figure out the tradeoffs between various models of
>> 7000 series and 7700 series coolers. Also between Cu vs CuAl.
>> The primary objective is to lower the noise level.

>From the zalman.co.kr web site:
>
>7000AlCu 0.22-0.29C/W 18-27dB noise
>7000Cu 0.20-0.27C/W
>7700AlCu 0.21-0.28C/W 20-32dB noise
>7700Cu 0.19-0.24C/W

I hadn't seen that particular spec, but I knew roughly where
everything fell. I did look for compat. info on the ZalmanUs site
but didn't find either Asus.

The 7700, with a bit more cooling, would seem to allow downward
adjustment of the fan. But it doesn't look like it would get down to
the 7000's dB level.

>Using a 100W processor, fan at full speed, the worst of the above is
>3C warmer than the best of the above. A 3.06Ghz processor is 82 watts.
>0.22 * 82 = 18C rise.
>
>Mechanical clearance:
>39mm height 7000 = 55mm radius, 7700 = 68mm radius

I haven't had a chance to see either cooler in person, but
the 7700 just seems huge when envisioned within any
motherboard layout. I guess that's another product intended
for radical overclockers.

>P4T-E (use a drawing tool, import mobo picture, overlay heatsink radius)
>
>Both solutions pass over the RAM, so the RAM, when sitting in the
>socket, must be less than 39mm (1.53" ). The 7000 blocks one slot,
>the 7700 blocks two slots, so removal of the RAM with the heatsink
>in place might be a problem. I have no idea how tall your RAM is.

The Rambus sticks get to 1-3/8" to 1-1/2" above the motherboard.
Close!

Good point about swapping RAM! That hadn't occurred to me.
Ordinarily I wouldn't worry about it, but I've been intending to
replace two 256's with 512's so I can get 2Gigs in this machine.

I've turned up some stories of damage to circuitry/processor during
installation of Zalmans. I took that to mean they're hard to press
into place. Or maybe careless installer. In either case, I want to
keep uninstalling/reinstalling to a minimum.

>The 7700 passes over the rear connector stack, and also passes over
>top of the Northbridge. So the connector stack and the Northbridge
>heatsink have to be less than 1.53" high.

Those both seem to clear comfortably. Impressive to envision this as
the smaller of the two heatsinks though. I think the 7000 vs 7700
choice is clearly decided.

>P4C800-E (import mobo picture, overlay heatsink radius)
>
>The 7000 fits, because that is what I use. The 7000 just passes over
>the edge of the Northbridge heatsink, and has clearance to it.
>The 7700 would be getting close to the rear connecor stacks, and
>definitely passes over a portion of the Northbridge. I would not
>be able to fit a 7700 in my case, because my rear case fan would
>bump into the fins (I use a 120x120x37mm fan).

Whose case do you use? I presume that you're using Papst or Panaflow
fans, but if you've found something else with good noise specs, please
let me know. The Papst and Panaflows are relatively hard to find.

I normally leave the sides open on systems, so I don't use fans in the
back. Yeah, more noise and unclear airflow path, but I end up
swapping boards and drives too often.

I *do* put fans in front of all the drives, and that's where I'm
looking to place some high cfm, low noise fans. Currently have Antec
80mms which are good, but they may become audible if I quiet down the
CPU fan.

> Paul

Paul, you could archive all your posts and have a great manual
for Asus installation. Thanks again for another helpful post.

As it stands, I'll probably opt for the 7000AlCu, as I'd like to
minimize lateral (gravity) stress on the motherboard. I normally
don't go for 'Lan Party' effects, but I think they make one with a
blue LED which could be useful for monitoring fan power.

BTW, I guess all mention of 7000 above should really be 7000B, as that
is Zalman's current model. I haven't seen the 7000A advertised, but
I've seen plenty of the plain 7000's in price lists. That would seem
to be an older model.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <ocr0a15763i5kh8aehast60aiu5j9n1m4u@4ax.com>, "_|_|_"
<_|_|_@nomail.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:01:34 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:
>
> >In article <7r7v91toej719tomcn3ong6hg2sruo5f10@4ax.com>, "_|_|_"
> ><_|_|_@nomail.org> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm currently using Northwood 3Ghz CPUs in P4T-E and P4C800-E.
> >> I'm trying to figure out the tradeoffs between various models of
> >> 7000 series and 7700 series coolers. Also between Cu vs CuAl.
> >> The primary objective is to lower the noise level.
>
> >From the zalman.co.kr web site:
> >
> >7000AlCu 0.22-0.29C/W 18-27dB noise
> >7000Cu 0.20-0.27C/W
> >7700AlCu 0.21-0.28C/W 20-32dB noise
> >7700Cu 0.19-0.24C/W
>
> I hadn't seen that particular spec, but I knew roughly where
> everything fell. I did look for compat. info on the ZalmanUs site
> but didn't find either Asus.
>
> The 7700, with a bit more cooling, would seem to allow downward
> adjustment of the fan. But it doesn't look like it would get down to
> the 7000's dB level.
>
> >Using a 100W processor, fan at full speed, the worst of the above is
> >3C warmer than the best of the above. A 3.06Ghz processor is 82 watts.
> >0.22 * 82 = 18C rise.
> >
> >Mechanical clearance:
> >39mm height 7000 = 55mm radius, 7700 = 68mm radius
>
> I haven't had a chance to see either cooler in person, but
> the 7700 just seems huge when envisioned within any
> motherboard layout. I guess that's another product intended
> for radical overclockers.
>
> >P4T-E (use a drawing tool, import mobo picture, overlay heatsink radius)
> >
> >Both solutions pass over the RAM, so the RAM, when sitting in the
> >socket, must be less than 39mm (1.53" ). The 7000 blocks one slot,
> >the 7700 blocks two slots, so removal of the RAM with the heatsink
> >in place might be a problem. I have no idea how tall your RAM is.
>
> The Rambus sticks get to 1-3/8" to 1-1/2" above the motherboard.
> Close!
>
> Good point about swapping RAM! That hadn't occurred to me.
> Ordinarily I wouldn't worry about it, but I've been intending to
> replace two 256's with 512's so I can get 2Gigs in this machine.
>
> I've turned up some stories of damage to circuitry/processor during
> installation of Zalmans. I took that to mean they're hard to press
> into place. Or maybe careless installer. In either case, I want to
> keep uninstalling/reinstalling to a minimum.
>
> >The 7700 passes over the rear connector stack, and also passes over
> >top of the Northbridge. So the connector stack and the Northbridge
> >heatsink have to be less than 1.53" high.
>
> Those both seem to clear comfortably. Impressive to envision this as
> the smaller of the two heatsinks though. I think the 7000 vs 7700
> choice is clearly decided.
>
> >P4C800-E (import mobo picture, overlay heatsink radius)
> >
> >The 7000 fits, because that is what I use. The 7000 just passes over
> >the edge of the Northbridge heatsink, and has clearance to it.
> >The 7700 would be getting close to the rear connecor stacks, and
> >definitely passes over a portion of the Northbridge. I would not
> >be able to fit a 7700 in my case, because my rear case fan would
> >bump into the fins (I use a 120x120x37mm fan).
>
> Whose case do you use? I presume that you're using Papst or Panaflow
> fans, but if you've found something else with good noise specs, please
> let me know. The Papst and Panaflows are relatively hard to find.
>
> I normally leave the sides open on systems, so I don't use fans in the
> back. Yeah, more noise and unclear airflow path, but I end up
> swapping boards and drives too often.
>
> I *do* put fans in front of all the drives, and that's where I'm
> looking to place some high cfm, low noise fans. Currently have Antec
> 80mms which are good, but they may become audible if I quiet down the
> CPU fan.
>
> > Paul
>
> Paul, you could archive all your posts and have a great manual
> for Asus installation. Thanks again for another helpful post.
>
> As it stands, I'll probably opt for the 7000AlCu, as I'd like to
> minimize lateral (gravity) stress on the motherboard. I normally
> don't go for 'Lan Party' effects, but I think they make one with a
> blue LED which could be useful for monitoring fan power.
>
> BTW, I guess all mention of 7000 above should really be 7000B, as that
> is Zalman's current model. I haven't seen the 7000A advertised, but
> I've seen plenty of the plain 7000's in price lists. That would seem
> to be an older model.

As far as I know, mechanically, the dimensional aspects of 7000, 7000A
and 7000B are the same. They come with different adapters, and you might
still need a separate adapter kit, if you want to use these products
on LGA775. (Newegg lists a plastic ring for $5 or so, that goes with
the 7000 series.) To get the maximum number of adapters in the kit,
buying the B version is the way to go.

In terms of cooling ability versus noise, I think they form a
continuum. If you need absolutely as much cooling as you can get,
then the 7700 is the right answer. If you need a bit less (say
you are trying to build a quiet Athlon64 system), then the 7000 will
do.

Noise is all relative, and as soon as you quiet down one part
of a system, then another source of noise will become apparent.
Some of the systems that are completely sealed, and covered with
cooling fins on the outside, are one way to contain noise. Zalman
makes one, but I doubt it could handle a high end P4. Another
way to stop the noise, is remote the system and just put it in another
room.

In terms of install, one of the reasons I like the Zalman, is the
use of screws to clamp the product in place. When you get within
about a turn or two from the screw being driven fully into place,
the motherboard will start to bend. As a result, you should balance
retention force, versus the possibility of leaving the motherboard
flexed all the time.

The fan I got is a beauty, and I bought it because the body is
made of metal instead of plastic. The brand is "CircuitTest" and
doesn't have any redeeming qualities, except that if I need to
crank it up, it can move a lot of air. This is the fan you buy,
when you cannot get your case air temperature down :-) Noise
be damned. Right now, this is not getting a full 12V.

http://www.circuittest.com/English [...] 2038MS.asp

HTH,
Paul

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:49:45 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>As far as I know, mechanically, the dimensional aspects of 7000, 7000A
>and 7000B are the same.

So...I picked up a 7000B. The thing that hadn't occurred to me: The
Antec cases have hard drive cages that unlatch and slide out. Yes,
the top one goes toward the CPU. I'm not sure at this point whether
it will clash. At least, I'll have to take care not to dent the fins.
They look delicate.

I did opt for the all-copper 7000B. Now I'm having second thoughts.
It's damn heavy, and the fins are probably more bendable than the
aluminum ones.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 06:03:45 -0400, "_|_|_" <_|_|_@noemail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:49:45 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:
>
>>As far as I know, mechanically, the dimensional aspects of 7000, 7000A
>>and 7000B are the same.
>
>So...I picked up a 7000B. The thing that hadn't occurred to me: The
>Antec cases have hard drive cages that unlatch and slide out. Yes,
>the top one goes toward the CPU. I'm not sure at this point whether
>it will clash. At least, I'll have to take care not to dent the fins.
>They look delicate.
>
>I did opt for the all-copper 7000B. Now I'm having second thoughts.
>It's damn heavy, and the fins are probably more bendable than the
>aluminum ones.

It is very heavy, isn't it? I'd use the AlCu version on a 90-nm chip
like the newer Athlon 64s that aren't very difficult to cool. If I
installed the all-copper 7000, I'd be very, very gentle whenever I
moved my computer. These heatsinks do exceed the weight specs for
their sockets. I'm not sure I've seen this opinion offered by the
experts, but I think the 7000 or 7700 all-copper versions may not be
appropriate for tower-mounted (vertical) mobos that are moved
frequently.

For an extremely quiet Zalman all-copper cooler that's only 2/3 the
weight of the 7000 and (per Zalman), more efficient that water
cooling, see here:
http://www.zalman.co.kr/mboard/mbo [...] idx_num=33
I don't imagine we'll be able to get our hands on one for quite some
time, though.



Ron

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 06:03:45 -0400, "_|_|_" <_|_|_@noemail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:49:45 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:
>
>I did opt for the all-copper 7000B. Now I'm having second thoughts.
>It's damn heavy, and the fins are probably more bendable than the
>aluminum ones.

That's why I went for the aliminum one. The weight of the copper far
exceeded the specs for my Pentium 4 and motherboard by about twice as
much. A review I read didn't show a whole lot of difference between
the copper and aluminum as far as temperature so I went with the
aluminum. My CPU idles around 40 C and 57C peak under load in a room
whos temperature is between 80 and 90 F.