Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Asus' Crash-Free BIOS notwithstanding, the most elegant protection
against BIOS-flashing disasters is the BIOS Savior by IOSS in Taiwan.
Unfortunately, they don't seem to have updated their Web site and
compatibility list for about four years. Nevertheless, the BIOS
Savior is still for sale. Mwave has a 4MB version,
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspe [...] ia=BA09803
but there's no compatibility table there, either.
Is it possible that this version would work with the 4MB BIOS on the
A8N-SLI?


Ron

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <sfbca11g42pstvpjklkorjdc69au7ip1cl@4ax.com>,
miller.90@spamlessosu.edu wrote:

> Asus' Crash-Free BIOS notwithstanding, the most elegant protection
> against BIOS-flashing disasters is the BIOS Savior by IOSS in Taiwan.
> Unfortunately, they don't seem to have updated their Web site and
> compatibility list for about four years. Nevertheless, the BIOS
> Savior is still for sale. Mwave has a 4MB version,
> http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspe [...] ia=BA09803
> but there's no compatibility table there, either.
> Is it possible that this version would work with the 4MB BIOS on the
> A8N-SLI?
>
>
> Ron

Updates stopped here with the A7N8X.

http://www.ioss.com.tw/web/English [...] /ASUS.html

This chart is based on the user identifying the part number on
the BIOS chip itself:

http://www.ioss.com.tw/web/English [...] Sheet.html

See if your chip part number matches something in the chart.

Paul

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Indeed, I have the same question. This kit sounds like good insurance for
about $25. Please post if you find out more.

"milleron" <millerdot90@SPAMlessosu.edu> wrote in message
news:sfbca11g42pstvpjklkorjdc69au7ip1cl@4ax.com...
>
> Asus' Crash-Free BIOS notwithstanding, the most elegant protection
> against BIOS-flashing disasters is the BIOS Savior by IOSS in Taiwan.
> Unfortunately, they don't seem to have updated their Web site and
> compatibility list for about four years. Nevertheless, the BIOS
> Savior is still for sale. Mwave has a 4MB version,
> http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspe [...] ia=BA09803
> but there's no compatibility table there, either.
> Is it possible that this version would work with the 4MB BIOS on the
> A8N-SLI?
>
>
> Ron

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

There are complete kits here:
http://www.frozencpu.com/scan/se=E [...] earch.html
for about $25 but again, it's difficult to know which, if any, is compatible
with the A8N-SLI or A8N-SLI Deluxe.


"milleron" <millerdot90@SPAMlessosu.edu> wrote in message
news:sfbca11g42pstvpjklkorjdc69au7ip1cl@4ax.com...
>
> Asus' Crash-Free BIOS notwithstanding, the most elegant protection
> against BIOS-flashing disasters is the BIOS Savior by IOSS in Taiwan.
> Unfortunately, they don't seem to have updated their Web site and
> compatibility list for about four years. Nevertheless, the BIOS
> Savior is still for sale. Mwave has a 4MB version,
> http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspe [...] ia=BA09803
> but there's no compatibility table there, either.
> Is it possible that this version would work with the 4MB BIOS on the
> A8N-SLI?
>
>
> Ron

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:34:50 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>In article <sfbca11g42pstvpjklkorjdc69au7ip1cl@4ax.com>,
>miller.90@spamlessosu.edu wrote:
>
>> Asus' Crash-Free BIOS notwithstanding, the most elegant protection
>> against BIOS-flashing disasters is the BIOS Savior by IOSS in Taiwan.
>> Unfortunately, they don't seem to have updated their Web site and
>> compatibility list for about four years. Nevertheless, the BIOS
>> Savior is still for sale. Mwave has a 4MB version,
>> http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspe [...] ia=BA09803
>> but there's no compatibility table there, either.
>> Is it possible that this version would work with the 4MB BIOS on the
>> A8N-SLI?
>>
>>
>> Ron
>
>Updates stopped here with the A7N8X.
>
>http://www.ioss.com.tw/web/English/RD1BIOSSavior/CompatiblityList/ASUS.html
>
>This chart is based on the user identifying the part number on
>the BIOS chip itself:
>
>http://www.ioss.com.tw/web/English/RD1BIOSSavior/SelectionSheet.html
>
>See if your chip part number matches something in the chart.

Hey, thanks. The second table is one I had not yet seen at IOSS.
Unfortunately, I can't tell anything about the BIOS because I haven't
purchased the board yet. I'd like to install a BIOS Savior as I'm
building, so I wanted to purchase it at the same time I bought the
motherboard. Perhaps someone who already has an A8N-SLI could tell us
if the Award BIOS matches any part number on the list.
I'm hoping.

BTW, I can't remember ever reading a post about a bad flash where the
CrashFree BIOS did anyone any good. Why doesn't it seem to work as
advertised?

Ron

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:38:46 -0400, "J&SB" <jandsb@cox.net> wrote:

>Indeed, I have the same question. This kit sounds like good insurance for
>about $25. Please post if you find out more.

Do you already have an Asus NForce 4 board? If so, can you report on
the part number?
Like you say, for $25, it's a good solution, so good that if I can't
ascertain compatibility for certain, I'm probably going to buy a
RD1-PCM4 and try it. I don't think it could damage the original BIOS
because I believe that there's no electrical connection between the
two. it appears that the most one would have to lose is $25.

>
>"milleron" <millerdot90@SPAMlessosu.edu> wrote in message
>news:sfbca11g42pstvpjklkorjdc69au7ip1cl@4ax.com...
>>
>> Asus' Crash-Free BIOS notwithstanding, the most elegant protection
>> against BIOS-flashing disasters is the BIOS Savior by IOSS in Taiwan.
>> Unfortunately, they don't seem to have updated their Web site and
>> compatibility list for about four years. Nevertheless, the BIOS
>> Savior is still for sale. Mwave has a 4MB version,
>> http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspe [...] ia=BA09803
>> but there's no compatibility table there, either.
>> Is it possible that this version would work with the 4MB BIOS on the
>> A8N-SLI?
>>
>>
>> Ron
>

Ron

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <a9mha19kf5p2jauakuug2ol8u127f3e37p@4ax.com>,
miller.90@spamlessosu.edu wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:34:50 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:
>
> >In article <sfbca11g42pstvpjklkorjdc69au7ip1cl@4ax.com>,
> >miller.90@spamlessosu.edu wrote:
> >
> >> Asus' Crash-Free BIOS notwithstanding, the most elegant protection
> >> against BIOS-flashing disasters is the BIOS Savior by IOSS in Taiwan.
> >> Unfortunately, they don't seem to have updated their Web site and
> >> compatibility list for about four years. Nevertheless, the BIOS
> >> Savior is still for sale. Mwave has a 4MB version,
> >> http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspe [...] ia=BA09803
> >> but there's no compatibility table there, either.
> >> Is it possible that this version would work with the 4MB BIOS on the
> >> A8N-SLI?
> >>
> >>
> >> Ron
> >
> >Updates stopped here with the A7N8X.
> >
> >http://www.ioss.com.tw/web/English/RD1BIOSSavior/CompatiblityList/ASUS.html
> >
> >This chart is based on the user identifying the part number on
> >the BIOS chip itself:
> >
> >http://www.ioss.com.tw/web/English/RD1BIOSSavior/SelectionSheet.html
> >
> >See if your chip part number matches something in the chart.
>
> Hey, thanks. The second table is one I had not yet seen at IOSS.
> Unfortunately, I can't tell anything about the BIOS because I haven't
> purchased the board yet. I'd like to install a BIOS Savior as I'm
> building, so I wanted to purchase it at the same time I bought the
> motherboard. Perhaps someone who already has an A8N-SLI could tell us
> if the Award BIOS matches any part number on the list.
> I'm hoping.
>
> BTW, I can't remember ever reading a post about a bad flash where the
> CrashFree BIOS did anyone any good. Why doesn't it seem to work as
> advertised?
>
> Ron

The Crashfree concept is to take a single physical flash chip and
partition it into two separate virtual flash chips. For this to
work properly, the "boot block" should never be erased. I suspect
the people who report here, that their upgrade failed, and
Crashfree didn't help them, probably are using the flash tool
to erase the boot block as well as the main code block. That could
account for the failure rate. The tools and instructions don't
make it clear what options to use, to make Crashfree a useful
feature.

If Asus wants to use Crashfree as a beneficial concept, they
should ship the first BIOS with a well tested boot block.
Then, erasing and reprogramming the boot block would not be
necessary. And Crashfree would stand a better chance of working,
as it lives inside the boot block.

Paul


Paul

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 04:05:20 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>In article <a9mha19kf5p2jauakuug2ol8u127f3e37p@4ax.com>,
>miller.90@spamlessosu.edu wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:34:50 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <sfbca11g42pstvpjklkorjdc69au7ip1cl@4ax.com>,
>> >miller.90@spamlessosu.edu wrote:
>> >
>> >> Asus' Crash-Free BIOS notwithstanding, the most elegant protection
>> >> against BIOS-flashing disasters is the BIOS Savior by IOSS in Taiwan.
>> >> Unfortunately, they don't seem to have updated their Web site and
>> >> compatibility list for about four years. Nevertheless, the BIOS
>> >> Savior is still for sale. Mwave has a 4MB version,
>> >> http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspe [...] ia=BA09803
>> >> but there's no compatibility table there, either.
>> >> Is it possible that this version would work with the 4MB BIOS on the
>> >> A8N-SLI?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Ron
>> >
>> >Updates stopped here with the A7N8X.
>> >
>> >http://www.ioss.com.tw/web/English/RD1BIOSSavior/CompatiblityList/ASUS.html
>> >
>> >This chart is based on the user identifying the part number on
>> >the BIOS chip itself:
>> >
>> >http://www.ioss.com.tw/web/English/RD1BIOSSavior/SelectionSheet.html
>> >
>> >See if your chip part number matches something in the chart.
>>
>> Hey, thanks. The second table is one I had not yet seen at IOSS.
>> Unfortunately, I can't tell anything about the BIOS because I haven't
>> purchased the board yet. I'd like to install a BIOS Savior as I'm
>> building, so I wanted to purchase it at the same time I bought the
>> motherboard. Perhaps someone who already has an A8N-SLI could tell us
>> if the Award BIOS matches any part number on the list.
>> I'm hoping.
>>
>> BTW, I can't remember ever reading a post about a bad flash where the
>> CrashFree BIOS did anyone any good. Why doesn't it seem to work as
>> advertised?
>>
>> Ron
>
>The Crashfree concept is to take a single physical flash chip and
>partition it into two separate virtual flash chips. For this to
>work properly, the "boot block" should never be erased. I suspect
>the people who report here, that their upgrade failed, and
>Crashfree didn't help them, probably are using the flash tool
>to erase the boot block as well as the main code block. That could
>account for the failure rate. The tools and instructions don't
>make it clear what options to use, to make Crashfree a useful
>feature.
>
>If Asus wants to use Crashfree as a beneficial concept, they
>should ship the first BIOS with a well tested boot block.
>Then, erasing and reprogramming the boot block would not be
>necessary. And Crashfree would stand a better chance of working,
>as it lives inside the boot block.
>
> Paul

The DOS flashing utilities don't give the option of leaving the boot
block intact. How does one flash a BIOS without including the boot
block?


Ron

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <9k8ma117ls6hhitpu7d4mupf8o8btheb2u@4ax.com>,
miller.90@spamlessosu.edu wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 04:05:20 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:
>
> >If Asus wants to use Crashfree as a beneficial concept, they
> >should ship the first BIOS with a well tested boot block.
> >Then, erasing and reprogramming the boot block would not be
> >necessary. And Crashfree would stand a better chance of working,
> >as it lives inside the boot block.
> >
> > Paul
>
> The DOS flashing utilities don't give the option of leaving the boot
> block intact. How does one flash a BIOS without including the boot
> block?
>
>
> Ron

Hmmm.

There used to be command line switches for that stuff. /sb used to
stand for "skip bootblock".

http://groups-beta.google.com/grou [...] c080bedea1

http://groups-beta.google.com/grou [...] 44968bdb0d

Now, when I test the program, the command line options are not offered.
There is still evidence of them inside the program, but I guess they've
been turned off somehow. It looks to me, like awdflash got rewritten
at some point, and judging by the English used, by people for whom
English was a second language. To quote a text string inside the program:
"Please to confirm input correct file"

I guess this is progress. This is an older version of the flash program.
I don't think there is any reason for you to want to download or look at
this, because it will undoubtedly reject any new BIOS file you feed it.
This is a sample of what the program used to look like. It is about
4KB smaller than the new version, so perhaps the new version has
just tacked a shell onto the front of the program.

ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/ASUS/mb [...] dflash.zip

In any case, it looks like the user has no control any more with this
program. Either this means Asus is not updating the boot block, or
they are paying lip service to the concept of CrashFree (i.e. it is
updated every time).

Paul

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 00:49:01 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>In article <9k8ma117ls6hhitpu7d4mupf8o8btheb2u@4ax.com>,
>miller.90@spamlessosu.edu wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 04:05:20 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:
>>
>> >If Asus wants to use Crashfree as a beneficial concept, they
>> >should ship the first BIOS with a well tested boot block.
>> >Then, erasing and reprogramming the boot block would not be
>> >necessary. And Crashfree would stand a better chance of working,
>> >as it lives inside the boot block.
>> >
>> > Paul
>>
>> The DOS flashing utilities don't give the option of leaving the boot
>> block intact. How does one flash a BIOS without including the boot
>> block?
>>
>>
>> Ron
>
>Hmmm.
>
>There used to be command line switches for that stuff. /sb used to
>stand for "skip bootblock".
>
>http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit/msg/e5502ac080bedea1
>
>http://groups-beta.google.com/group/fr.comp.os.os2/msg/52f32644968bdb0d
>
>Now, when I test the program, the command line options are not offered.
>There is still evidence of them inside the program, but I guess they've
>been turned off somehow. It looks to me, like awdflash got rewritten
>at some point, and judging by the English used, by people for whom
>English was a second language. To quote a text string inside the program:
>"Please to confirm input correct file"
>
>I guess this is progress. This is an older version of the flash program.
>I don't think there is any reason for you to want to download or look at
>this, because it will undoubtedly reject any new BIOS file you feed it.
>This is a sample of what the program used to look like. It is about
>4KB smaller than the new version, so perhaps the new version has
>just tacked a shell onto the front of the program.
>
>ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/ASUS/mb/socka/nforce2/a7n8x-deluxe/awdflash.zip
>
>In any case, it looks like the user has no control any more with this
>program. Either this means Asus is not updating the boot block, or
>they are paying lip service to the concept of CrashFree (i.e. it is
>updated every time).
>
> Paul

Do you think they're actually overwriting the boot block with every
flash? If so, I presume that this means that the boot block has the
potential to become corrupted with each flash, and, as soon as it
does, then bye-bye CrashFree.

I'm still going to buy the only BIOS Savior that IOSS makes and see if
it works. If it doesn't, then it should be a fairly simple matter to
remove it and plug the original BIOS back into its original slot.
I've never done this before, though, so I'm wondering how great a
likelihood there is of damaging the mobo or BIOS chip using the
chip-extracting device supplied with the BIOS Savior. Anybody know?


Ron

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <iglra1d5a6k36hcf7fpubsddpr3ddmehk7@4ax.com>,
miller.90@spamlessosu.edu wrote:

>
> Do you think they're actually overwriting the boot block with every
> flash? If so, I presume that this means that the boot block has the
> potential to become corrupted with each flash, and, as soon as it
> does, then bye-bye CrashFree.
>
> I'm still going to buy the only BIOS Savior that IOSS makes and see if
> it works. If it doesn't, then it should be a fairly simple matter to
> remove it and plug the original BIOS back into its original slot.
> I've never done this before, though, so I'm wondering how great a
> likelihood there is of damaging the mobo or BIOS chip using the
> chip-extracting device supplied with the BIOS Savior. Anybody know?
>
>
> Ron

I have extracted a couple hundred chips from PLCC sockets. Basically,
on a given socket, it gets easier the more chips have been in and out
of the same socket. So, the first one will be a little tougher to
remove. (Take note of the pin 1 marker or any other orientation info,
so you put the device back the way you found it. It is easy to rotate
some of these PLCC packages, and the "magic smoke" will escape if
that happens. I remember a poster remarking about a glow that was
coming from a couple of pins on his BIOS flash chip, and that was
the power supply pins on the chip frying. In that case, the BIOS
chip was inserted by his supplier, and apparently the board was
never tested afterwards.)

I've used a pointed object, working diagonally on the chip corners,
easing it out a bit on each side, until it popped free. Occasionally
I've get a slightly bent socket pin by doing that, so there is some
risk. There are various extractor tools, and the objective is to
pull the chip equally on all side, so there is no side force on
the pins. The extractor tool is certainly a better way to do it,
if you have one. (A lip on the end of each extractor leg, is used
to pull up on the bottom of the chip.)

As for experimentally determining what is flashed, when you flash
a BIOS, you can use the backup function to take snapshots of the
chip contents at any time. The first time that the BIOS runs,
it will likely update certain segments of the BIOS chip, like
DMI/ESCD with hardware inventory, and a section referred to as
NVRAM by some of the BIOS messages. On Intel motherboards, you
may find microcode cache segments in the BIOS chip. So, you cannot
expect a BIOS image to stay the same for very long. The boot block
could be nearer to the end of the file, than near the beginning.
But I cannot say with any certainty, as to what delimits the boot
block area. There should be some kind of JUMP instruction in there
somewhere, that jumps to the boot block, as the boot block should
be the first piece of code to run.

Paul

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

My advice : contact them by e-mail, stating the type and number of
your BIOS. They usually answer rapidly. My guess is that as long
as the BIOS is the same size it will work.

As long as you disconnect your computer and proceed with care,
your board will not be damaged.


>
> I'm still going to buy the only BIOS Savior that IOSS makes and see if
> it works. If it doesn't, then it should be a fairly simple matter to
> remove it and plug the original BIOS back into its original slot.
> I've never done this before, though, so I'm wondering how great a
> likelihood there is of damaging the mobo or BIOS chip using the
> chip-extracting device supplied with the BIOS Savior. Anybody know?
>
>
> Ron

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 00:49:01 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>In article <9k8ma117ls6hhitpu7d4mupf8o8btheb2u@4ax.com>,
>miller.90@spamlessosu.edu wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 04:05:20 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:
>>
>> >If Asus wants to use Crashfree as a beneficial concept, they
>> >should ship the first BIOS with a well tested boot block.
>> >Then, erasing and reprogramming the boot block would not be
>> >necessary. And Crashfree would stand a better chance of working,
>> >as it lives inside the boot block.
>> >
>> > Paul
>>
>> The DOS flashing utilities don't give the option of leaving the boot
>> block intact. How does one flash a BIOS without including the boot
>> block?
>>
>>
>> Ron
>
>Hmmm.
>
>There used to be command line switches for that stuff. /sb used to
>stand for "skip bootblock".
>
>http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit/msg/e5502ac080bedea1
>
>http://groups-beta.google.com/group/fr.comp.os.os2/msg/52f32644968bdb0d
>
>Now, when I test the program, the command line options are not offered.
>There is still evidence of them inside the program, but I guess they've
>been turned off somehow. It looks to me, like awdflash got rewritten
>at some point, and judging by the English used, by people for whom
>English was a second language. To quote a text string inside the program:
>"Please to confirm input correct file"
>
>I guess this is progress. This is an older version of the flash program.