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Asus 915 chipset boards and 4 memory modules

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Anonymous
a b } Memory
a b V Motherboard
June 22, 2005 4:30:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Looking for some advice. I may change back to an Intel board for my main pc
and am wondering if there are any issues with running 4x512Mb DDR3200 on
boards like the P5GD1 or P5GD1-VM. I plan to run a P4 630 on it. Currently,
the memory is sitting on an A8V-Deluxe running an Athlon64 3200, it's really
fast! but I've discovered that several apps I use a lot were a lot more
dependent on HyperThreading than I thought. And the new dual-core cpu's are
way out of my budget range :-( I suspect I'll really miss my CnQ, this
machine is virtually silent all the time.
I upgraded to the A64 from a P4 2.6 @ 800FSB . My son will inherit the
Athlon64 setup with different memory, I'll put the 4 exactly matched modules
on the new board. The memory is Kingston and it's on the A8V QVL list so I
imagine it should be ok on either of the boards I've mentioned above.
The other problem with the A8V (Thanks Via!%*^&#@@) is I have to run it with
the 2T Command enabled to get it to boot with the ram set at 400, it's
native speed. Unfortunately I couldn't afford 2x1024 at the time, I already
had two modules and I was able to get two more to match them.
The questions are:
1- Do the 915 boards really support 4 sticks of DDR3200 at full speed?
2- Are there any anomalies with this chipset I need to know about? I am
leaning towards the P5GD1 to have RAID and Gb LAN but a mini pc might be
fun...if I can cool it well enough.
3- Any information or experience with Speedstep on the 600 series cpu's on
these boards? Or is Q-Fan a better option?
4- If anyone would like to share their experiences with either of the boards
I'm looking at or make alternate suggestions please do so.

Any help appreciated, Thanks

Zz
June 22, 2005 10:07:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <7Q5ue.2196$X57.355155@news20.bellglobal.com>, "zzipper"
<zzipper@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Looking for some advice. I may change back to an Intel board for my main pc
> and am wondering if there are any issues with running 4x512Mb DDR3200 on
> boards like the P5GD1 or P5GD1-VM. I plan to run a P4 630 on it. Currently,
> the memory is sitting on an A8V-Deluxe running an Athlon64 3200, it's really
> fast! but I've discovered that several apps I use a lot were a lot more
> dependent on HyperThreading than I thought. And the new dual-core cpu's are
> way out of my budget range :-( I suspect I'll really miss my CnQ, this
> machine is virtually silent all the time.
> I upgraded to the A64 from a P4 2.6 @ 800FSB . My son will inherit the
> Athlon64 setup with different memory, I'll put the 4 exactly matched modules
> on the new board. The memory is Kingston and it's on the A8V QVL list so I
> imagine it should be ok on either of the boards I've mentioned above.
> The other problem with the A8V (Thanks Via!%*^&#@@) is I have to run it with
> the 2T Command enabled to get it to boot with the ram set at 400, it's
> native speed. Unfortunately I couldn't afford 2x1024 at the time, I already
> had two modules and I was able to get two more to match them.
> The questions are:
> 1- Do the 915 boards really support 4 sticks of DDR3200 at full speed?
> 2- Are there any anomalies with this chipset I need to know about? I am
> leaning towards the P5GD1 to have RAID and Gb LAN but a mini pc might be
> fun...if I can cool it well enough.
> 3- Any information or experience with Speedstep on the 600 series cpu's on
> these boards? Or is Q-Fan a better option?
> 4- If anyone would like to share their experiences with either of the boards
> I'm looking at or make alternate suggestions please do so.
>
> Any help appreciated, Thanks
>
> Zz

Chipset/RAM comparison

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/chipsets/display/p4-fa...

Power measurement, load and idle, of various processors. These
are measured on the inlet side to the Vcore regulator, so the
measured power includes the power loss in the regulator.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentiumm-7...

In this article, you can see no diff between running 2 or 4
DDR DIMMs at stock DDR400 speeds. Where you will notice a difference
is when overclocking. Four double sided DIMMS might do DDR440,
while two double sided DIMMs will do DDR500+ (whatever today's
record is). If you plan on overclocking by lifting both the FSB
and memory bus, that is when 2x1GB might be a better approach.
The problem there, is finding good 1GB performance modules.

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2293&p=4

In the same article, you'll notice that 2 versus 4 DIMMs for
DDR2, needed a tweak on the CAS setting for stability.

Now, all we need, is an article explaining why command rate
doesn't show its nose, when talking about Intel chipsets.
The memory loading effect should still be there, so the question
is, how is Intel hiding it ? Better pad drivers ? The words
"command rate" don't appear in Intel datasheets, and there is
no sign of it in the DRAM timing register definition. (Of course,
an Intel datasheet is not a study in honesty, as a number of
those "reserved" fields do stuff.)

Your statement "The other problem with the A8V (Thanks Via!%*^&#@@)"
is not a Via issue. The chipset, whether it is Via or Nvidia, has
nothing to do with memory on Athlon64. The memory is connected
directly to the processor chip, and is one reason, if you overvolt
memory on a Athlon64 board, you are risking the processor and
not the motherboard. That could be important if you are torturing
a $1000 processor on a $200 motherboard. With an Intel board,
torturing memory only stands to damage the Northbridge, so less
$$$ involved.

I would say 2x1GB DIMMs would be a good investment on A64, as
a means of mitigating the 20% difference in memory bandwidth.
But, that might mean a 6% difference in average applications, so
is it worth chasing ?

In answer to your questions:

> 1- Do the 915 boards really support 4 sticks of DDR3200 at full speed?

According to the Anandtech article, yes. You might need to find
another article about overclocking 2 vs 4 sticks, if that is your
objective - I find there is not a lot of info about 915/925 available.
I guess people who buy these boards, aren't doing stuff like that,
because the private forums don't have a lot of 915 postings.

> 2- Are there any anomalies with this chipset I need to know about? I am
> leaning towards the P5GD1 to have RAID and Gb LAN but a mini pc might be
> fun...if I can cool it well enough.

Well, the hardest part was getting the chipsets to overclock. Intel
tried to limit the overclocking abilities, and there are some articles
on the popular hardware sites, about how several of the major
manufacturers went about improving on the situation.

The ICH6 has four sata ports and only one IDE port (for two drives).
The ITE8212 fills the gap, if you need more IDE ports.

> 3- Any information or experience with Speedstep on the 600 series cpu's on
> these boards? Or is Q-Fan a better option?

I guess one of the Xbitlabs articles gives a partial answer. You
really have to be careful with the individual Intel processors.
The datasheet from developer.intel.com for the 600 series is here.
On page 25, you can see the 650 has slightly lower "enhanced_auto_halt"
current, but the difference here isn't worth changing your purchase
plans. On some Intel product lines, the magnitude of difference is
a bit more. The currents listed in these datasheets are obviously
not based on the statistics of large batches of processors, and
are based on the concept of TDP (and it is a dangerous assumption,
as the tool that Xbitlabs uses to "warm" up its processors, is likely
drawing more current than the datasheet value). YMMV and will likely
be better than the listed figures. I know on my 2.8C Northwood
for example, my Vcore only needs 13.2W when the processor is idling,
and I think that is less than half of the datasheet value.

ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/datashts/30638...

Q-fan is a fan control feature, and does nothing to reduce the
thermal waste heat coming from the processor. Only the processor
design features can help with that. If you buy a "toaster", then
expect to need to buy a "toaster cooler" for the CPU and in
terms of the case cooling design (more case fans). What Q-fan
can do, is trade fan noise versus temperature, when there is room
for a tradeoff. There is really no room for that with Intel
processors (disable Q-fan so the fan motor gets the full 12V).

With the high end Intel processor solutions, I recommend buying
the biggest damn heatsink you can find, as that will allow the
fan speed to be reduced somewhat. The biggest problem with the
Intel processors, is allowing them to get to 70C, where they
start to thermally throttle, and reduce computing output. You
do want a cooling solution capable of preventing that from
happening, and a stock Intel cooler screaming at full RPMs
is not the way to do that. If it will fit, an XP-120 or a
Zalman 7700 are examples of oversized heatsinks with theta
(thermal resistance values) of around 0.20C/watt. That means,
when 100 watts of power is dumped, the processor temp rises
only 20 degrees C over case ambient temperature. If room air
is 25C, case ambient is 7C warmer or 32C (for a well cooled
case), then the processor would run at 52C. There is a bit
of room there, between 52C and 70C, and you might drop the
fan speed a notch if you can hear the fan. But, whether a
cooler like that can deliver, really depends on the case
you use. Using a tiny case would be a bad starting assumption,
for such a project, as there isn't enough room for case inlet
and exhaust fans, nor enough vent area for decent air flow.
As it is, you may even benefit from the use of ducted airflow
from the side of the case. Cooling your new purchase is going
to be one of the more interesting aspects of the project.

Oh, and what kind of PCI Express video card are you planning
on getting ? There is no AGP slot on the P5GD1.

Have fun,
Paul
June 22, 2005 7:18:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <7Q5ue.2196$X57.355155@news20.bellglobal.com>, "zzipper"
<zzipper@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Looking for some advice. I may change back to an Intel board for my main pc
> and am wondering if there are any issues with running 4x512Mb DDR3200 on
> boards like the P5GD1 or P5GD1-VM. I plan to run a P4 630 on it. Currently,
> the memory is sitting on an A8V-Deluxe running an Athlon64 3200, it's really
> fast! but I've discovered that several apps I use a lot were a lot more
> dependent on HyperThreading than I thought. And the new dual-core cpu's are
> way out of my budget range :-( I suspect I'll really miss my CnQ, this
> machine is virtually silent all the time.
> I upgraded to the A64 from a P4 2.6 @ 800FSB . My son will inherit the
> Athlon64 setup with different memory, I'll put the 4 exactly matched modules
> on the new board. The memory is Kingston and it's on the A8V QVL list so I
> imagine it should be ok on either of the boards I've mentioned above.
> The other problem with the A8V (Thanks Via!%*^&#@@) is I have to run it with
> the 2T Command enabled to get it to boot with the ram set at 400, it's
> native speed. Unfortunately I couldn't afford 2x1024 at the time, I already
> had two modules and I was able to get two more to match them.
> The questions are:
> 1- Do the 915 boards really support 4 sticks of DDR3200 at full speed?
> 2- Are there any anomalies with this chipset I need to know about? I am
> leaning towards the P5GD1 to have RAID and Gb LAN but a mini pc might be
> fun...if I can cool it well enough.
> 3- Any information or experience with Speedstep on the 600 series cpu's on
> these boards? Or is Q-Fan a better option?
> 4- If anyone would like to share their experiences with either of the boards
> I'm looking at or make alternate suggestions please do so.
>
> Any help appreciated, Thanks
>
> Zz

This article suggests an Intel chipset is always using 2T
command rate. Yet the benchmarks comparing what they think is
a 1T chipset to a 2T chipset, show little in the way of a
penalty. Certainly not the 15-20% seen on AMD.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/chipsets/print/nf4-int...

Paul
Related resources
June 22, 2005 7:43:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <7Q5ue.2196$X57.355155@news20.bellglobal.com>, "zzipper"
<zzipper@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Looking for some advice. I may change back to an Intel board for my main pc
> and am wondering if there are any issues with running 4x512Mb DDR3200 on
> boards like the P5GD1 or P5GD1-VM. I plan to run a P4 630 on it. Currently,
> the memory is sitting on an A8V-Deluxe running an Athlon64 3200, it's really
> fast! but I've discovered that several apps I use a lot were a lot more
> dependent on HyperThreading than I thought. And the new dual-core cpu's are
> way out of my budget range :-( I suspect I'll really miss my CnQ, this
> machine is virtually silent all the time.
> I upgraded to the A64 from a P4 2.6 @ 800FSB . My son will inherit the
> Athlon64 setup with different memory, I'll put the 4 exactly matched modules
> on the new board. The memory is Kingston and it's on the A8V QVL list so I
> imagine it should be ok on either of the boards I've mentioned above.
> The other problem with the A8V (Thanks Via!%*^&#@@) is I have to run it with
> the 2T Command enabled to get it to boot with the ram set at 400, it's
> native speed. Unfortunately I couldn't afford 2x1024 at the time, I already
> had two modules and I was able to get two more to match them.
> The questions are:
> 1- Do the 915 boards really support 4 sticks of DDR3200 at full speed?
> 2- Are there any anomalies with this chipset I need to know about? I am
> leaning towards the P5GD1 to have RAID and Gb LAN but a mini pc might be
> fun...if I can cool it well enough.
> 3- Any information or experience with Speedstep on the 600 series cpu's on
> these boards? Or is Q-Fan a better option?
> 4- If anyone would like to share their experiences with either of the boards
> I'm looking at or make alternate suggestions please do so.
>
> Any help appreciated, Thanks
>
> Zz

And here are some real power measurements on the various processors.
Your choice of a 600 series processor is not a bad one.

http://www.hardtecs4u.com/reviews/2005/leistungsmessung...

TDP CNQ Idle Busy
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (2,2 GHz, 130nm) 89W 6,2W 19,2W 59,3W
Newcastle, CG, Juni 2004

AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (2,2 GHz, 90nm) 67W 5,5W 13,1W 38,6W
Winchester, D0, Februar 2005

AMD Athlon 64 3800+ (2,4 GHz, 130nm) 89W 6,5W 22,9W 68,7W
Newcastle, CG, Juni 2004

AMD Athlon 64 4000+ (2,4 GHz, 130nm) 89W 6,1W 17,4W 56,8W
Clawhammer, CG, Oktober 2004

AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 (2,4 GHz, 130nm) 89W 7,4W 26,2W 69,7W
Clawhammer, CG, Juni 2004

AMD Athlon 64 FX-55 (2,6 GHz, 130nm) 104W 7,2W 24,4W 73,0W
Clawhammer, CG, Oktober 2004

Intel Pentium 4 560 (3,6 GHz, 90nm) 115W - 39,1W 88,8W
Prescott, D0, Juni 2004

Intel Pentium 4 570J (3,8 GHz, 90nm) 115W - 20,6W 83,7W
Prescott, E0, November 2004

Intel Pentium 4 660 (3,6 GHz, 90nm) 115W - 16,0W 79,9W
Prescott-2M, E0, Februar 2005

Pentium 4 EE 3,4 GHz (130nm) 109,6W - 20,1W 81,4W
Gallatin (Northwood-2M), Juni 2004

Pentium 4 EE 3,46 GHz (130nm) 110,7W - 16,7W 76,4W
Gallatin (Northwood-2M), M0, Okt 2004

Pentium 4 EE 3,73 GHz (90nm) 115W - 34,6W 83,2W
Prescott-2M, E0, Februar 2005

Paul
Anonymous
a b } Memory
a b V Motherboard
June 24, 2005 4:18:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Thanks for the extremely detailed responses! I guess I'll be doing a bit of
reading over the next couple of weeks. I will be staying with normal DDR for
now, as I own about 5Gb's of it. It's mostly Kingston, the rest is Crucial,
ir's all 3200 except for 2 HyperX 3500 modules on my son's NF2 system. DDR2
can wait :-) I sold my OCZ PC4000 with my 2.6 P4 and the board to a friend
as an upgrade package. As for video cards, I'm looking at an X600Pro or
maybe an X700. I don't do much gaming so something comparable to the 9600XT
All-in-Wonder I am using now is more than adequate. My main need is to be
able to run multiple virtual machines and watch/record tv. I'll put the AIW
either in my son's pc or add it to my other box and make it into a big PVR
and share the TV using EZ Share. He has a 9600XT on an NF2 board right now,
so whether he gets the AIW or not isn't going to change much for him. As
long as he can race fast he's happy :-)
The performance hit in terms of memory bandwidth with my current setup is
large. Overall performance with 2 modules with about 10% better but I need
the physical memory for the vm's. But I'm not overly disappointed with it.
I'll have to weigh the pro's and con's before the final decision but I see
the 630 or 640 as the cpu of choice for what I want. Dual-core isn't in the
budget so
HT and a 2Mb cache makes the 600 series look good :-)
Again, thanks for the help!
Zz


"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
news:nospam-2206051543450001@192.168.1.178...
> In article <7Q5ue.2196$X57.355155@news20.bellglobal.com>, "zzipper"
> <zzipper@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> Looking for some advice. I may change back to an Intel board for my main
>> pc
>> and am wondering if there are any issues with running 4x512Mb DDR3200 on
>> boards like the P5GD1 or P5GD1-VM. I plan to run a P4 630 on it.
>> Currently,
>> the memory is sitting on an A8V-Deluxe running an Athlon64 3200, it's
>> really
>> fast! but I've discovered that several apps I use a lot were a lot more
>> dependent on HyperThreading than I thought. And the new dual-core cpu's
>> are
>> way out of my budget range :-( I suspect I'll really miss my CnQ, this
>> machine is virtually silent all the time.
>> I upgraded to the A64 from a P4 2.6 @ 800FSB . My son will inherit the
>> Athlon64 setup with different memory, I'll put the 4 exactly matched
>> modules
>> on the new board. The memory is Kingston and it's on the A8V QVL list so
>> I
>> imagine it should be ok on either of the boards I've mentioned above.
>> The other problem with the A8V (Thanks Via!%*^&#@@) is I have to run it
>> with
>> the 2T Command enabled to get it to boot with the ram set at 400, it's
>> native speed. Unfortunately I couldn't afford 2x1024 at the time, I
>> already
>> had two modules and I was able to get two more to match them.
>> The questions are:
>> 1- Do the 915 boards really support 4 sticks of DDR3200 at full speed?
>> 2- Are there any anomalies with this chipset I need to know about? I am
>> leaning towards the P5GD1 to have RAID and Gb LAN but a mini pc might be
>> fun...if I can cool it well enough.
>> 3- Any information or experience with Speedstep on the 600 series cpu's
>> on
>> these boards? Or is Q-Fan a better option?
>> 4- If anyone would like to share their experiences with either of the
>> boards
>> I'm looking at or make alternate suggestions please do so.
>>
>> Any help appreciated, Thanks
>>
>> Zz
>
> And here are some real power measurements on the various processors.
> Your choice of a 600 series processor is not a bad one.
>
> http://www.hardtecs4u.com/reviews/2005/leistungsmessung...
>
> TDP CNQ Idle Busy
> AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (2,2 GHz, 130nm) 89W 6,2W 19,2W 59,3W
> Newcastle, CG, Juni 2004
>
> AMD Athlon 64 3500+ (2,2 GHz, 90nm) 67W 5,5W 13,1W 38,6W
> Winchester, D0, Februar 2005
>
> AMD Athlon 64 3800+ (2,4 GHz, 130nm) 89W 6,5W 22,9W 68,7W
> Newcastle, CG, Juni 2004
>
> AMD Athlon 64 4000+ (2,4 GHz, 130nm) 89W 6,1W 17,4W 56,8W
> Clawhammer, CG, Oktober 2004
>
> AMD Athlon 64 FX-53 (2,4 GHz, 130nm) 89W 7,4W 26,2W 69,7W
> Clawhammer, CG, Juni 2004
>
> AMD Athlon 64 FX-55 (2,6 GHz, 130nm) 104W 7,2W 24,4W 73,0W
> Clawhammer, CG, Oktober 2004
>
> Intel Pentium 4 560 (3,6 GHz, 90nm) 115W - 39,1W 88,8W
> Prescott, D0, Juni 2004
>
> Intel Pentium 4 570J (3,8 GHz, 90nm) 115W - 20,6W 83,7W
> Prescott, E0, November 2004
>
> Intel Pentium 4 660 (3,6 GHz, 90nm) 115W - 16,0W 79,9W
> Prescott-2M, E0, Februar 2005
>
> Pentium 4 EE 3,4 GHz (130nm) 109,6W - 20,1W 81,4W
> Gallatin (Northwood-2M), Juni 2004
>
> Pentium 4 EE 3,46 GHz (130nm) 110,7W - 16,7W 76,4W
> Gallatin (Northwood-2M), M0, Okt 2004
>
> Pentium 4 EE 3,73 GHz (90nm) 115W - 34,6W 83,2W
> Prescott-2M, E0, Februar 2005
>
> Paul
!