Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

DVD drive's exploding

Last response: in Motherboards
Share
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 16, 2005 8:19:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Not real sure where the problem is on this. I can't trust the local computer
repair any more. 3 robberies from them is enough.

Asus P4P800 deluxe
400 watt power supply
1 Gig ram 512 DDR's
1 HP 9300 CD recorder
1 Liteon DVD recorder died less than a month ago and just out of
warranty
1 Memorex Dual Layer 16x DVD recorder also dead within 2-3 weeks. CD exploded
in the drive. Glass everywhere.
1 1.44 meg Floppy
1 10 Gig HD
1 152 Gig Sata HD
1 300 gig Maxtor IDE HD
1 4 bus USB adapter
1 ATI AIW 9800 card.
56k modem.
fan on power supply, fan on AIW, and additional fan at rear of machine.
Full air flow from all sides No case sides installed.
Asus probe actually alerts and shows the fans speeds dropping from the
coolness.

Couple weeks ago, while pondering the last crash looking at the bios, and the
ATI card box 128 meg. I wondered if I could get some of these games [CSI
specifically] to quit screwing up losing characters by increasing the AGP
aperture from 64 to 128. Glad I didn't go for the 512.

Ran fine that day.
Next day startup cruise into screen saver, asus probe pops up 3.3 volt low
voltage dropping like a stone.
sniff what's burning. Powered off
Fired it up again, set the bios AGP back to 64. only recent change other than
the new HD and DVD.
Ran fine that day.
next repeat of previous day, but low voltage constantly failing.
Can't stay running for more than 10 minutes at a time 3.3 low voltage needs
help.

Off to the shop -2 days later, 4 hours on the bench, not a problem. $109.00.
Suggest I don't need a CD and DVD , that I should trash the reliable 7 year old
HP CD recorder. Strike 3 from that shop. I can get a NEW HP for just twice
that.
Well the DVD and the exploding CD fixed that problem.

Does the Asus P4P800 have a history of destroying DVD drives ?

I've considered going to a 500 watt power supply, won't need any space heaters
next winter if I do. I'm just curious about this because the machine came out
of the box custom build from that shop. They attempted to stash a 300-350 watt
supply in it at first. That power supply lasted about 3-4 hours. And it
actually exploded with a huge blast. They bought the cost of replacing that
with the 400 watt. Seems to me more of a stop gap vs a real attempt to match
the machine with horsepower needed.

--
more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html

More about : dvd drive exploding

Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 16, 2005 12:17:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"Husky" <cbminfo@toast.net> wrote in message
news:s8fhd1t5db5uu6mt1nvrrjomehtve8ig3k@4ax.com...
> Not real sure where the problem is on this. I can't trust the local
> computer
> repair any more. 3 robberies from them is enough.
>
> Asus P4P800 deluxe
> 400 watt power supply
<snip>

Given your history with the shop in question, I'd look into the quality of
the 400W PSU. Just because it *says* 400W, doesn't make it an adequate PSU.
Post the brand name (if any) and the detailed specs which should be on a
label on the PSU (ratings for the different voltages supplied) and people
here can make recommendations.
My *guess* is that the shop threw in the cheapest PSU they could find and
that it is causing your problems.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 16, 2005 3:10:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:17:23 -0500, "Peter van der Goes"
<p_vandergoes@toadstool.u> wrote:

>
>"Husky" <cbminfo@toast.net> wrote in message
>news:s8fhd1t5db5uu6mt1nvrrjomehtve8ig3k@4ax.com...
>> Not real sure where the problem is on this. I can't trust the local
>> computer
>> repair any more. 3 robberies from them is enough.
>>
>> Asus P4P800 deluxe
>> 400 watt power supply
><snip>
>
>Given your history with the shop in question, I'd look into the quality of
>the 400W PSU. Just because it *says* 400W, doesn't make it an adequate PSU.
>Post the brand name (if any) and the detailed specs which should be on a
>label on the PSU (ratings for the different voltages supplied) and people
>here can make recommendations.
>My *guess* is that the shop threw in the cheapest PSU they could find and
>that it is causing your problems.
>
Model LPK 2-30. 400 watt sticker on it.

--
more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html
Related resources
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 16, 2005 9:41:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Husky schrieb:

> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:17:23 -0500, "Peter van der Goes"
> <p_vandergoes@toadstool.u> wrote:
>
>>"Husky" <cbminfo@toast.net> wrote in message
>>> Not real sure where the problem is on this. I can't trust the local
>>> computer
>>> repair any more. 3 robberies from them is enough.
>>>
>>> Asus P4P800 deluxe
>>> 400 watt power supply
>><snip>
>>
>>Given your history with the shop in question, I'd look into the quality of
>>the 400W PSU. Just because it *says* 400W, doesn't make it an adequate PSU.
>>Post the brand name (if any) and the detailed specs which should be on a
>>label on the PSU (ratings for the different voltages supplied) and people
>>here can make recommendations.
>>My *guess* is that the shop threw in the cheapest PSU they could find and
>>that it is causing your problems.
>>
> Model LPK 2-30. 400 watt sticker on it.

Seems to be a Linkworld model and apparently used to be sold as a 300
watter. IIRC Linkworld is a cheapo brand. Get something that's of decent
quality, maybe a Fortron / Sparkle, Enermax, Antec (not the cheapo
series), Seasonic; a 350 watter should do. SuperFlower supposedly has
good quality stuff as well. If you want a *real* 400 watter, the Zalman
ZM400B-APS (a rebranded Fortron) would be a good bet.

BTW, this is a good thread on PSU quality:
http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=131195

Stephan
--
Home: http://stephan.win31.de/
PC#6: i440BX, 2xP3-500E, 704 MiB, 250+80 GB, R9k AGP 64 MiB, 110W
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 16, 2005 9:41:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"Stephan Grossklass" <sgrokla-nospam04q2@yahoo.de> wrote in message
news:D bb9qf$g9v$00$1@news.t-online.com...
> Husky schrieb:
>
> > On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:17:23 -0500, "Peter van der Goes"
> > <p_vandergoes@toadstool.u> wrote:
> >
> >>"Husky" <cbminfo@toast.net> wrote in message
> >>> Not real sure where the problem is on this. I can't trust the local
> >>> computer
> >>> repair any more. 3 robberies from them is enough.
> >>>
> >>> Asus P4P800 deluxe
> >>> 400 watt power supply
> >><snip>
> >>
> >>Given your history with the shop in question, I'd look into the quality
of
> >>the 400W PSU. Just because it *says* 400W, doesn't make it an adequate
PSU.
> >>Post the brand name (if any) and the detailed specs which should be on a
> >>label on the PSU (ratings for the different voltages supplied) and
people
> >>here can make recommendations.
> >>My *guess* is that the shop threw in the cheapest PSU they could find
and
> >>that it is causing your problems.
> >>
> > Model LPK 2-30. 400 watt sticker on it.
>
> Seems to be a Linkworld model and apparently used to be sold as a 300
> watter. IIRC Linkworld is a cheapo brand. Get something that's of decent
> quality, maybe a Fortron / Sparkle, Enermax, Antec (not the cheapo
> series), Seasonic; a 350 watter should do. SuperFlower supposedly has
> good quality stuff as well. If you want a *real* 400 watter, the Zalman
> ZM400B-APS (a rebranded Fortron) would be a good bet.
>

agreed, Ebay records show your LPK 2-30 supply as 300 watt and selling as
low as $12

Looking at your list of disk drives, (you got a bunch), memory and video
board that you posted earlier you have a really loaded system and need as
first class power supply. Suggest 550 watt with two fans. If your system
runs better with sides off then I suggest getting a cpu cooler with a hood
or air duct that pulls air up from the cpu HSF directly out the back of the
case. I picked up a zalman with a hood that worked out really well.

...good luck..


--
=======================================================================
Beemer Biker joestateson@grandecom.net
http://ResearchRiders.org Ask about my 99'R1100RT
http://TipsForTheComputingImpaired.com
=======================================================================




> BTW, this is a good thread on PSU quality:
> http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=131195
>
> Stephan
> --
> Home: http://stephan.win31.de/
> PC#6: i440BX, 2xP3-500E, 704 MiB, 250+80 GB, R9k AGP 64 MiB, 110W
July 16, 2005 9:41:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <dbb9qf$g9v$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Stephan Grossklass
<sgrokla-nospam04q2@yahoo.de> wrote:

> Husky schrieb:
>
> > On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:17:23 -0500, "Peter van der Goes"
> > <p_vandergoes@toadstool.u> wrote:
> >
> >>"Husky" <cbminfo@toast.net> wrote in message
> >>> Not real sure where the problem is on this. I can't trust the local
> >>> computer
> >>> repair any more. 3 robberies from them is enough.
> >>>
> >>> Asus P4P800 deluxe
> >>> 400 watt power supply
> >><snip>
> >>
> >>Given your history with the shop in question, I'd look into the quality of
> >>the 400W PSU. Just because it *says* 400W, doesn't make it an adequate PSU.
> >>Post the brand name (if any) and the detailed specs which should be on a
> >>label on the PSU (ratings for the different voltages supplied) and people
> >>here can make recommendations.
> >>My *guess* is that the shop threw in the cheapest PSU they could find and
> >>that it is causing your problems.
> >>
> > Model LPK 2-30. 400 watt sticker on it.
>
> Seems to be a Linkworld model and apparently used to be sold as a 300
> watter. IIRC Linkworld is a cheapo brand. Get something that's of decent
> quality, maybe a Fortron / Sparkle, Enermax, Antec (not the cheapo
> series), Seasonic; a 350 watter should do. SuperFlower supposedly has
> good quality stuff as well. If you want a *real* 400 watter, the Zalman
> ZM400B-APS (a rebranded Fortron) would be a good bet.
>
> BTW, this is a good thread on PSU quality:
> http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=131195
>
> Stephan

Good catch. I couldn't find the LPK 2-30 in a web search, but
the Linkworld brand made it much easier to find.

There is a picture here, of the label on the side of the LPK2
supply. From Newegg "Linkworld 3131G-C8815U" N82E16811164017

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.asp?image=11-16...

Just the picture itself...
http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/11-164-017-07.J...

What is pretty funny, is the Newegg advert says the supply is 300W,
and the sticker in the upper right hand corner of the picture
shows "400W". And the combined power rating on 3.3V&5V rails,
typically doesn't even allow the 5V rail to go to its maximum
amps. I would say the best kind of place for this supply,
is the local land fill (dump) - I really wish computer cases
did not ship with PSUs in them...

Always be suspicious, when the web site refuses to list specs:
http://www.linkworld.com.tw/power_supply/power_lpk_seri...

At a time like this, you should be using either the hardware
monitor in the BIOS (which lists the voltages), or Asus Probe
while in Windows (where the computer will have a more
realistic load on it). Watch Asus Probe as you test stuff,
to determine whether the power supply stays within the 5%
regulation limits. If the power dips on any rails, that
could be a sign that the PSU is no match for the computer.
Asus Probe keeps a running history in its graphical plot, so
if you quickly exit a test program like 3DMark, you can look
back at the chart for signs the power supply is dipping.

I recommend a minimum of 12V@15A for the 12V rating (that is
for a P4 system stripped to minimum components). Considering
the number of drives you've got, and the video card, perhaps
12V@20A might be a more comfortable minimum. You can work out
your own numbers here:

http://takaman.jp/D/?english

On my P4C800-E Deluxe, measured 3.3V max amps is 14.4 amps, with
four sticks of RAM. The +5V has very little motherboard load
(~0.5A), but your video card draws 5.5A from +5V, each disk
drive 1A, each CD/DVD could be up to 1.5A, to give you a better
estimate. Takaman cannot know how each motherboard company
loads and derives lower voltages, so 3.3 and 5V ratings will
be less accurate. Asus runs the memory off 3.3V, and that is a
fair portion of the 3.3V load. The video card will also
take a chunk from 3.3V.(The P4P/P4C series would likely share
power supplying architecture, but YMMV.)

The DVD drive exploding could be a media failure (crack in disk,
spun at high speed, flies apart).

So, when shopping for a PSU, look at the individual numbers,
rather than just relying on "400W" or the like.

Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 17, 2005 4:50:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 13:48:18 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>The DVD drive exploding could be a media failure (crack in disk,
>spun at high speed, flies apart).
DVD it replaced was a 3 minute out of warranty Liteon that also self destructed
which is why I'm asking about DVD's being part of the trouble.
As for a PS, I've built my own from RS parts. You aren't going to find a good
one if you don't hand pick all the parts yourself. But this is a 400 watt. No
idea what that ebay stuff is all about. Ebay = Garage sale.

>
>So, when shopping for a PSU, look at the individual numbers,
>rather than just relying on "400W" or the like.

the 400w is the guide you have to depend on.
400w at maximum load.

The only question I had was that I hadn't added up all the voltage/power needs
of the individual items. And the question is, is 400w the minimum operable
[runs hot 24/7] , or the max under load ? I know the 300-350 they stuck in
[blew up after 3 hours use] originally was no where even close to minimum
needed. It tried with 3 hours use, but had to be cooking the entire time. How
many other things did it take out [weaken] before it blew ?

--
more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html
July 17, 2005 8:26:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <87ojd11s0djv80vh13u81bkjvgqv3h901a@4ax.com>, cbminfo@toast.net
wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 13:48:18 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:
>
> >The DVD drive exploding could be a media failure (crack in disk,
> >spun at high speed, flies apart).
> DVD it replaced was a 3 minute out of warranty Liteon that also self
destructed
> which is why I'm asking about DVD's being part of the trouble.
> As for a PS, I've built my own from RS parts. You aren't going to find a good
> one if you don't hand pick all the parts yourself. But this is a 400 watt. No
> idea what that ebay stuff is all about. Ebay = Garage sale.
>
> >
> >So, when shopping for a PSU, look at the individual numbers,
> >rather than just relying on "400W" or the like.
>
> the 400w is the guide you have to depend on.
> 400w at maximum load.
>
> The only question I had was that I hadn't added up all the voltage/power needs
> of the individual items. And the question is, is 400w the minimum operable
> [runs hot 24/7] , or the max under load ? I know the 300-350 they stuck in
> [blew up after 3 hours use] originally was no where even close to minimum
> needed. It tried with 3 hours use, but had to be cooking the entire time. How
> many other things did it take out [weaken] before it blew ?

Perhaps you could describe the failure of your optical disk drives
in more detail. I've never heard of an optical drive exploding,
except for the case of a media failure while spinning at high speed.
There really isn't a lot in there to explode. A lot of drive
devices might have a failure of the transistors that control
the motor, and perhaps something might get burnt in the process.
Exploding could be caused by a capacitor, but I doubt any high
volume manufacturer is going to be doing something stupid in
that department, when they could be looking at warranty repairs
on large numbers of units.

As for the overall rating, the 400W number represents the total
power coming from all windings at the same time. In a loose sense,
you could consider it to be the point where the heat dissipated
inside the PSU, is getting so large, that the components have hit
the specified temperature limit. Cheap power supplies quote
their "400W" number, at an ambient of 25C. Good quality supplies
will specify 40 or 50C ambient, and those numbers are important
in hotter climates, where air conditioning is not always
available. It is pretty easy for the air inside the computer
case to hit 35C, so the supply should already be derated from
its 400W number.

The way that motherboards work, is one rail is loaded more than
any other. On P4 boards, it might be the +12V rail. On an
Asus AthlonXP board, it might be the +5V rail. The other rails
are less heavily loaded, and are not even near the limit for
that rail. As a consequence, there is no way for a motherboard
to get near the "400W" max number, since the odds of a motherboard
perfectly drawing the max current from each rail at the same time,
is virtually zero.

When your 300-350W supply failed, the computer might have been
drawing 150W at idle, maybe 200W or a bit more while gaming. In
other words, the supply failed before it hit the "total power
limit". What could happen, is the most heavily loaded output
could fail. Or, the rating of the supply could be a pure
fabrication, and in fact the supply simply is not capable of
producing its rated output. (How many posts have I read, where
a modern power supply failed to make a computer work properly,
and when the poster used "my old 250W supply", the computer
worked. That tells you the specs on today's supplies are not
very honest.)

Tomshardware is currently doing a "stress test" of power supplies
(presumably because their stress test on AMD versus Intel got
them so many web hits), and they are loading all the rails to
their spec limit. Which is great for a circus act, but has little
to do with running a computer. When a unit passes the test, it
is certainly a testiment to the design - but when a unit fails,
what does that failure really mean ? Seeing as the test condition
cannot be reproduced by a connected computer (which will always
hit the limit on the one heavily loaded rail and not all rails
at the same time), it doesn't mean very much.

Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 17, 2005 11:44:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Husky wrote:
> the 400w is the guide you have to depend on.
> 400w at maximum load.
>
> The only question I had was that I hadn't added up all the voltage/power needs
> of the individual items. And the question is, is 400w the minimum operable
> [runs hot 24/7] , or the max under load ? I know the 300-350 they stuck in
> [blew up after 3 hours use] originally was no where even close to minimum
> needed. It tried with 3 hours use, but had to be cooking the entire time. How
> many other things did it take out [weaken] before it blew ?

400W is probably more than enough for such a machine, however many cheap
power supplies are absolute junk and are not capable of delivering their
full power rating reliably. My advice would be to always use a known
reputable brand of power supply in any machine you care about..

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hancockr@nospamshaw.ca
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 17, 2005 12:53:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 04:26:22 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>Perhaps you could describe the failure of your optical disk drives
>in more detail. I've never heard of an optical drive exploding,
>except for the case of a media failure while spinning at high speed.
>There really isn't a lot in there to explode. A lot of drive
>devices might have a failure of the transistors that control
>the motor, and perhaps something might get burnt in the process.
>Exploding could be caused by a capacitor, but I doubt any high
>volume manufacturer is going to be doing something stupid in
>that department, when they could be looking at warranty repairs
>on large numbers of units.
The liteon, just seemed to die of old age. No signs that it was the source of
troubles just before it quit. Then 2 times in a row, BSOD, and had to reset the
BIOS by hand.
Couldn't find the OS..
Then while using it, it just kept claiming it couldn't be found, or couldn't
find media etc.. Just flat died 3 minutes out of warranty. Or it might still be
3 minutes in warranty. Doesn't matter it's been replaced.

The Memorex Dual layer 16 x DVD recorder went in 2 weeks. Then the other day
while hunting for the source of this low voltage warning [haven't seen since it
went to sit in the shop] out of laziness and save a few steps, extracting
directly from inside the archives to the HD, loud bullet crack, glass
everywhere, and couldn't extract from any archive, but the machine was still
running and no smoke escaping. Forced the DVD drive open and the CD was no
more.
Office Depot replaced NQA in less than 5 minutes.

>Tomshardware is currently doing a "stress test" of power supplies
>(presumably because their stress test on AMD versus Intel got
>them so many web hits), and they are loading all the rails to
>their spec limit. Which is great for a circus act, but has little
>to do with running a computer. When a unit passes the test, it
>is certainly a testiment to the design - but when a unit fails,
>what does that failure really mean ? Seeing as the test condition
>cannot be reproduced by a connected computer (which will always
>hit the limit on the one heavily loaded rail and not all rails
>at the same time), it doesn't mean very much.

What it means is that unit won't fail, lining the pockets of these so called
computer repair geek's that turn the power on under an air conditioning duct,
let it sit for 4 hours, and call it fixed.

I use this machine. It's not uncommon to be running the printer printing
labels, while filling labels in Access, with the AIW TV onscreen and modifying
the images for the access database in photoshop. And fiddling with Freecell
while other things are thinking about their next step. And extracting the
images from DVD's with Nero for the database.
Or that's been it's current project for awhile now.
I can exceed or give it a run for it's multi tasking limit.

--
more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 17, 2005 1:43:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Seems like you are having all sorts of trouble! I owned the subject board
for about a year and a half and it encountered no problems with optical or
for the matter HDDs. Things "blowing up" as a result of a power supply
although possible do not sound probable.

Have to think back a bit as I am now using the AMD 64 board from ASUS
(A8N-SLI Dlx) but a do recall running the P4P800 Dlx initially with a
generic 300 watt PS. At that point I was running 3 HDDs (2 in RAID 1) 2
optical drivers, 2 512 DIMMS an ATI 9700 Pro and 56k Modem that I can
recall. All was at expected power levels except the 5.5v rail would drop a
couple percent on occasion.

When I decided to add a SATA HD and a video capture card decided a newer PS
was needed. I put in a brand name 480 Watt and it worked just fine. It is
currently running the A8N-SLI Dlx (without SLI as of yet) with only a very
small drop now in the 12v rail (11.94v). During the period in which I ran
the 300watt there were absolutley no power problems and certainly nothing
"blew up".

You may want to consider looking into other issues such as airflow, a
possible shorting of the MB or outright damage to the MB due to the initial
PS going south almost immediately. Have you tried the old "setup on
cardboard" trick yet where everything piece by piece is added while the
components are out of the case on cardboard? If there is a short this may
expose it or airflow issues. If the system still has the problems noted
then at least you have eliminated the above two.

FWIW
Good Luck,
Len
"Husky" <cbminfo@toast.net> wrote in message
news:e7kkd1lgma5u0vuhqlag3sllm6rpkcbak3@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 04:26:22 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:
>
>>Perhaps you could describe the failure of your optical disk drives
>>in more detail. I've never heard of an optical drive exploding,
>>except for the case of a media failure while spinning at high speed.
>>There really isn't a lot in there to explode. A lot of drive
>>devices might have a failure of the transistors that control
>>the motor, and perhaps something might get burnt in the process.
>>Exploding could be caused by a capacitor, but I doubt any high
>>volume manufacturer is going to be doing something stupid in
>>that department, when they could be looking at warranty repairs
>>on large numbers of units.
> The liteon, just seemed to die of old age. No signs that it was the source
> of
> troubles just before it quit. Then 2 times in a row, BSOD, and had to
> reset the
> BIOS by hand.
> Couldn't find the OS..
> Then while using it, it just kept claiming it couldn't be found, or
> couldn't
> find media etc.. Just flat died 3 minutes out of warranty. Or it might
> still be
> 3 minutes in warranty. Doesn't matter it's been replaced.
>
> The Memorex Dual layer 16 x DVD recorder went in 2 weeks. Then the other
> day
> while hunting for the source of this low voltage warning [haven't seen
> since it
> went to sit in the shop] out of laziness and save a few steps, extracting
> directly from inside the archives to the HD, loud bullet crack, glass
> everywhere, and couldn't extract from any archive, but the machine was
> still
> running and no smoke escaping. Forced the DVD drive open and the CD was no
> more.
> Office Depot replaced NQA in less than 5 minutes.
>
>>Tomshardware is currently doing a "stress test" of power supplies
>>(presumably because their stress test on AMD versus Intel got
>>them so many web hits), and they are loading all the rails to
>>their spec limit. Which is great for a circus act, but has little
>>to do with running a computer. When a unit passes the test, it
>>is certainly a testiment to the design - but when a unit fails,
>>what does that failure really mean ? Seeing as the test condition
>>cannot be reproduced by a connected computer (which will always
>>hit the limit on the one heavily loaded rail and not all rails
>>at the same time), it doesn't mean very much.
>
> What it means is that unit won't fail, lining the pockets of these so
> called
> computer repair geek's that turn the power on under an air conditioning
> duct,
> let it sit for 4 hours, and call it fixed.
>
> I use this machine. It's not uncommon to be running the printer printing
> labels, while filling labels in Access, with the AIW TV onscreen and
> modifying
> the images for the access database in photoshop. And fiddling with
> Freecell
> while other things are thinking about their next step. And extracting the
> images from DVD's with Nero for the database.
> Or that's been it's current project for awhile now.
> I can exceed or give it a run for it's multi tasking limit.
>
> --
> more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 17, 2005 5:59:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 09:43:25 -0400, "Len Mattix" <len207@hotmail.com> wrote:


>You may want to consider looking into other issues such as airflow, a
>possible shorting of the MB or outright damage to the MB due to the initial
>PS going south almost immediately. Have you tried the old "setup on
>cardboard" trick yet where everything piece by piece is added while the
>components are out of the case on cardboard? If there is a short this may
>expose it or airflow issues. If the system still has the problems noted
>then at least you have eliminated the above two.

BTDT I've been running the machines [P1-P4] naked since win98. Both covers off,
air flows with nothing but components in the way. This one has a habit of
Slowing the fans and alerting. It runs that cool. If you can call 101 degrees
cool. It has spiked to 109. I'm guessing that's somewhere around bootup when
it's doing nothing but overwork loading the startups.

I've been running with the new Memorex [identical DVD recorder that blew up a
CD] recorder for several days with monitoring on and no alerts. But haven't
plugged the old HP CD recorder in yet, and since it runs with the sides off,
and the power cables are inches from the plugs, I'll most likely leave it
unplugged till I need to do CD to CD copying.

I changed the AGP aperture from 64 to 128 for one day. Nothing went wrong.
Booted the next day, let it run into screen saver, and asus alerted after
several minutes on low voltage 3.3 down with smoke and smell.

powered off. reset AGP to 64. rebooted. ran that day fine

repeated next day boot - go to screen saver, asus alerted on 3.3 low voltage
again.
Nothing I could think of causing that other than maybe the BIOS didn't reset.
went back, and it was set to 64.
rebooted.. couldn't keep it running without asus reporting on the low voltage
with smoke, smell and an over heated plug on the power supply. That's when I
took it to the shop.

I've done radio repair for more than 12 years.
Stuff I repaired came with schematics. This asus, and ATI are sold as toys.
keep them out of your mouth...

Figured the shop might have a SAM'S and find why the 3.3 is failing. Stuck
under an A/C vent just letting it idle won't find an over heating problem.
--
more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html
July 18, 2005 2:02:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 13:59:35 -0400, Husky <cbminfo@toast.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 09:43:25 -0400, "Len Mattix" <len207@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>You may want to consider looking into other issues such as airflow, a
>>possible shorting of the MB or outright damage to the MB due to the initial
>>PS going south almost immediately. Have you tried the old "setup on
>>cardboard" trick yet where everything piece by piece is added while the
>>components are out of the case on cardboard? If there is a short this may
>>expose it or airflow issues. If the system still has the problems noted
>>then at least you have eliminated the above two.
>
>BTDT I've been running the machines [P1-P4] naked since win98. Both covers off,
>air flows with nothing but components in the way. This one has a habit of
>Slowing the fans and alerting. It runs that cool. If you can call 101 degrees
>cool. It has spiked to 109. I'm guessing that's somewhere around bootup when
>it's doing nothing but overwork loading the startups.
>
>I've been running with the new Memorex [identical DVD recorder that blew up a
>CD] recorder for several days with monitoring on and no alerts. But haven't
>plugged the old HP CD recorder in yet, and since it runs with the sides off,
>and the power cables are inches from the plugs, I'll most likely leave it
>unplugged till I need to do CD to CD copying.
>
>I changed the AGP aperture from 64 to 128 for one day. Nothing went wrong.
>Booted the next day, let it run into screen saver, and asus alerted after
>several minutes on low voltage 3.3 down with smoke and smell.
>
>powered off. reset AGP to 64. rebooted. ran that day fine
>
>repeated next day boot - go to screen saver, asus alerted on 3.3 low voltage
>again.
>Nothing I could think of causing that other than maybe the BIOS didn't reset.
>went back, and it was set to 64.
>rebooted.. couldn't keep it running without asus reporting on the low voltage
>with smoke, smell and an over heated plug on the power supply. That's when I
>took it to the shop.
>
>I've done radio repair for more than 12 years.
>Stuff I repaired came with schematics. This asus, and ATI are sold as toys.
>keep them out of your mouth...
>
>Figured the shop might have a SAM'S and find why the 3.3 is failing. Stuck
>under an A/C vent just letting it idle won't find an over heating problem.

Who needs a schematic? Further diagnostics might be intellectually
interesting, but your 3.3 is almost certainly failing because, as has
been demonstrated amply, you have a PSU that's not worth the powder to
blow it up. In fact, who needs powder; give it a little more time and
it might explode on its own just like the first model that bogus shop
foisted on you before they foisted this one on you. You have really
nice components in your PC, so why cut corners on that P-o-S power
supply? If I had a quarter for each of the threads we've seen over
the years in which the cause of the problem turned out to be a junk
PSU, I could retire.
My first step would be to go out and get a nice Antec, Enermax,
Fortron, Seasonic, or PCP&C PSU. I'd do that without hesitation,
because even if there were something else wrong, and you still saw the
"3.3 volt low voltage dropping like a stone," you'd know that the
money spent on a PSU worthy of your other components had not been
wasted.


Ron
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 18, 2005 2:02:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 22:02:28 GMT, milleron <millerdot90@SPAMlessosu.edu>
wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 13:59:35 -0400, Husky <cbminfo@toast.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 09:43:25 -0400, "Len Mattix" <len207@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You may want to consider looking into other issues such as airflow, a
>>>possible shorting of the MB or outright damage to the MB due to the initial
>>>PS going south almost immediately. Have you tried the old "setup on
>>>cardboard" trick yet where everything piece by piece is added while the
>>>components are out of the case on cardboard? If there is a short this may
>>>expose it or airflow issues. If the system still has the problems noted
>>>then at least you have eliminated the above two.
>>
>>BTDT I've been running the machines [P1-P4] naked since win98. Both covers off,
>>air flows with nothing but components in the way. This one has a habit of
>>Slowing the fans and alerting. It runs that cool. If you can call 101 degrees
>>cool. It has spiked to 109. I'm guessing that's somewhere around bootup when
>>it's doing nothing but overwork loading the startups.
>>
>>I've been running with the new Memorex [identical DVD recorder that blew up a
>>CD] recorder for several days with monitoring on and no alerts. But haven't
>>plugged the old HP CD recorder in yet, and since it runs with the sides off,
>>and the power cables are inches from the plugs, I'll most likely leave it
>>unplugged till I need to do CD to CD copying.
>>
>>I changed the AGP aperture from 64 to 128 for one day. Nothing went wrong.
>>Booted the next day, let it run into screen saver, and asus alerted after
>>several minutes on low voltage 3.3 down with smoke and smell.
>>
>>powered off. reset AGP to 64. rebooted. ran that day fine
>>
>>repeated next day boot - go to screen saver, asus alerted on 3.3 low voltage
>>again.
>>Nothing I could think of causing that other than maybe the BIOS didn't reset.
>>went back, and it was set to 64.
>>rebooted.. couldn't keep it running without asus reporting on the low voltage
>>with smoke, smell and an over heated plug on the power supply. That's when I
>>took it to the shop.
>>
>>I've done radio repair for more than 12 years.
>>Stuff I repaired came with schematics. This asus, and ATI are sold as toys.
>>keep them out of your mouth...
>>
>>Figured the shop might have a SAM'S and find why the 3.3 is failing. Stuck
>>under an A/C vent just letting it idle won't find an over heating problem.
>
>Who needs a schematic? Further diagnostics might be intellectually
>interesting, but your 3.3 is almost certainly failing because, as has
You do unless you designed the unit yourself and have a photographic memory.
At $100 a job or more, I don't think it's too much to expect someone running a
repair shop to have a book or two on the innards.

>been demonstrated amply, you have a PSU that's not worth the powder to
>blow it up. In fact, who needs powder; give it a little more time and
>it might explode on its own just like the first model that bogus shop
Actually I think it may have been a defective DVD recorder. It's been running
overworking for the past 2 days, and not a single beep on anything. It may be
awhile before the low fan speed warning returns. It's been in the mid 90's all
week.

>foisted on you before they foisted this one on you. You have really
>nice components in your PC, so why cut corners on that P-o-S power
>supply? If I had a quarter for each of the threads we've seen over
>the years in which the cause of the problem turned out to be a junk
>PSU, I could retire.
>My first step would be to go out and get a nice Antec, Enermax,
>Fortron, Seasonic, or PCP&C PSU. I'd do that without hesitation,
>because even if there were something else wrong, and you still saw the
>"3.3 volt low voltage dropping like a stone," you'd know that the
>money spent on a PSU worthy of your other components had not been
>wasted.

It would if it's unnecessary.
Without schematics, wait and see is the best option for now. If it happens when
I plug the CD recorder in [whenever] then I'll know it has to be the load
imposed by the new DVD recorder. Dual layer and extreme speed might just be the
oomph needed to over work the PS.

That wattage calculator didn't show a dual layer DVD on the radar. And ATI
doesn't release their power consumption.

--
more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 18, 2005 2:02:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

"milleron" <millerdot90@SPAMlessosu.edu> wrote in message
news:tmkld1hcgqhcd63bgdccvsef7s1n74ni8k@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 13:59:35 -0400, Husky <cbminfo@toast.net> wrote:
>
>
> Who needs a schematic? Further diagnostics might be intellectually
> interesting, but your 3.3 is almost certainly failing because, as has
> been demonstrated amply, you have a PSU that's not worth the powder to
> blow it up. In fact, who needs powder; give it a little more time and
> it might explode on its own just like the first model that bogus shop
> foisted on you before they foisted this one on you. You have really
> nice components in your PC, so why cut corners on that P-o-S power
> supply? If I had a quarter for each of the threads we've seen over
> the years in which the cause of the problem turned out to be a junk
> PSU, I could retire.
> My first step would be to go out and get a nice Antec, Enermax,
> Fortron, Seasonic, or PCP&C PSU. I'd do that without hesitation,
> because even if there were something else wrong, and you still saw the
> "3.3 volt low voltage dropping like a stone," you'd know that the
> money spent on a PSU worthy of your other components had not been
> wasted.
>
>
> Ron

I'm afraid he's in complete denial, Ron.
You're at least the fourth person who has told him to replace his shite PSU,
and he keeps coming back with "reasons" not to.
Perhaps it's a financial issue, or he doesn't know how to replace the PSU
(unlikely as he says he's a "radio repair" person.
Guess we'll just have to wish him luck with his next failed component.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 18, 2005 2:02:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 18:35:37 -0500, "Peter van der Goes"
<p_vandergoes@toadstool.u> wrote:


>I'm afraid he's in complete denial, Ron.
>You're at least the fourth person who has told him to replace his shite PSU,
>and he keeps coming back with "reasons" not to.
>Perhaps it's a financial issue, or he doesn't know how to replace the PSU
>(unlikely as he says he's a "radio repair" person.
>Guess we'll just have to wish him luck with his next failed component.
>

I don't do black box hit or miss when it's my dime. The problem arose the day
after I changed the AGP from 64 to 128. That's the ATI card. I picked up a
$10.00 cheapie video card if the problem resurfaces.

The only thing even suggesting it's the power supply was the hot plug when it
1st started failing. Something that should have popped CB's everywhere.

There's been no indication of ANY problem since returning from the shop other
than the NEW DVD blowing up a CD. I'm thinking for the platter to reach that
speed, something had to allow unlimited power in. Since the DVD was full of
glass, there's no way to check if the DVD actually worked after that.

If in two weeks this DVD also self destructs a CD, that might narrow things
down a bit to some sort of design problem in the DVD recorder.

But if anyone cares to buy me a 500w PS to just stick in there, I'll put it in.
--
more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html
July 18, 2005 3:32:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

In article <garld1dr679psr9ga6s8g00crpiqv5dhln@4ax.com>, cbminfo@toast.net
wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 18:35:37 -0500, "Peter van der Goes"
> <p_vandergoes@toadstool.u> wrote:
>
>
> >I'm afraid he's in complete denial, Ron.
> >You're at least the fourth person who has told him to replace his shite PSU,
> >and he keeps coming back with "reasons" not to.
> >Perhaps it's a financial issue, or he doesn't know how to replace the PSU
> >(unlikely as he says he's a "radio repair" person.
> >Guess we'll just have to wish him luck with his next failed component.
> >
>
> I don't do black box hit or miss when it's my dime. The problem arose the day
> after I changed the AGP from 64 to 128. That's the ATI card. I picked up a
> $10.00 cheapie video card if the problem resurfaces.
>
> The only thing even suggesting it's the power supply was the hot plug when it
> 1st started failing. Something that should have popped CB's everywhere.
>
> There's been no indication of ANY problem since returning from the shop other
> than the NEW DVD blowing up a CD. I'm thinking for the platter to reach that
> speed, something had to allow unlimited power in. Since the DVD was full of
> glass, there's no way to check if the DVD actually worked after that.
>
> If in two weeks this DVD also self destructs a CD, that might narrow things
> down a bit to some sort of design problem in the DVD recorder.
>
> But if anyone cares to buy me a 500w PS to just stick in there, I'll put
it in.

There are several reasons for a low 3.3V:

1) Power supply failure imminent.
2) Poor contact between ATX 20 pin connectors. If the connector is
not properly seated, it overheats (ohmic losses), the metal on the
pins oxidize, and the problem will repeat itself over and over again,
until both the motherboard connector and the PSU connector are
replaced.
3) The ATX power supply has a 3.3V pin that has two wires on it. The
thinner of the two wires is a feedback wire (remote sense). If the
thinner wire is broken, the output voltage will drop, as the
PSU monitors the 3.3V via an internal node inside the PSU, and the
PSU will no longer compensate for drop in the cable harness.

As for our rational in suggesting a preemptive PSU replacement, you
can wait for it to fail, or you can take the free warning it is giving
you. For example, the supply in my first computer, the fan developed
more variation in speed than it used to have. I checked the +12V
via the hardware monitor, and indeed the +12V wasn't regulating very
well. Rather than take a chance on the PSU damaging the computer, I
pulled it and replaced it. You could argue that I don't know for sure
that the supply was faulty, but I would argue that there is nothing
else different in the configuration to account for the new behavior.
If you had a $300 power supply, and only $200 worth of computer
components, replacing the supply would be silly. But if the components
cost you $1000 and the PSU cost $50, it would be silly not to replace it.
And cleaning up the mess afterwards can be costly, especially if you end
up with "domino failures" - one guy took the processor out of his
damaged computer, plugged it into a friend's motherboard, and killed
that motherboard - it is much better to replace the PSU before
something happens than after.

The power supply is the single most likely component to fail. And it
doesn't even matter which brand you buy - they all fail, even the
PCP&C ones have reported failures. But the Leadman/Powmax of the
world fail a lot more often than the good ones, so when someone posts
about how they got a good deal on a $13 power supply, and why doesn't
their computer work, it doesn't take rocket science to decide what is
wrong. All it takes is a few symptoms (burned smell, hot PSU case,
changes in PSU behavior, out of spec voltages, video artifacts, crash
when 3D game starts etc.)

It is too bad devices like this one aren't cheaper. I own one of these
and it is indispensible for determining what is going on. It is a
DC clamp-on ammeter, and the lower ranges are what I use. No need
to cut any wires to make current measurements.

http://www.extech.com/instrument/products/310_399/38094...

Paul
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 18, 2005 4:47:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 18:36:38 -0400, Husky <cbminfo@toast.net> wrote:

>>
>>Who needs a schematic? Further diagnostics might be intellectually
>>interesting, but your 3.3 is almost certainly failing because, as has
>You do unless you designed the unit yourself and have a photographic memory.
>At $100 a job or more, I don't think it's too much to expect someone running a
>repair shop to have a book or two on the innards.
>

you can expect whatever you like. what you'll get, if you're lucky, is
someone who follows the steps already proposed.

>>been demonstrated amply, you have a PSU that's not worth the powder to
>>blow it up. In fact, who needs powder; give it a little more time and
>>it might explode on its own just like the first model that bogus shop
>Actually I think it may have been a defective DVD recorder. It's been running
>overworking for the past 2 days, and not a single beep on anything. It may be
>awhile before the low fan speed warning returns. It's been in the mid 90's all
>week.
>

no, it's the media. it's well documented, a cursory google would turn
up all you need to know.

>>foisted on you before they foisted this one on you. You have really
>>nice components in your PC, so why cut corners on that P-o-S power
>>supply? If I had a quarter for each of the threads we've seen over
>>the years in which the cause of the problem turned out to be a junk
>>PSU, I could retire.
>>My first step would be to go out and get a nice Antec, Enermax,
>>Fortron, Seasonic, or PCP&C PSU. I'd do that without hesitation,
>>because even if there were something else wrong, and you still saw the
>>"3.3 volt low voltage dropping like a stone," you'd know that the
>>money spent on a PSU worthy of your other components had not been
>>wasted.
>
>It would if it's unnecessary.

it is neccessary. how many times does it need to tell you it can't
meet the demands placed on the 3.3v line?

>Without schematics

what's the obsession with schematics? you really think that every
component manufacturer supplies schematics to some central bureau that
publishes repair manuals?

>, wait and see is the best option for now. If it happens when
>I plug the CD recorder in [whenever] then I'll know it has to be the load
>imposed by the new DVD recorder. Dual layer and extreme speed might just be the
>oomph needed to over work the PS.
>

again, no. your pc will experience a larger power demand going from
idle to running a 3d game or benchmark than it will by adding a cd/dvd
drive, which will likely need no more than 60watts.

>That wattage calculator didn't show a dual layer DVD on the radar. And ATI
>doesn't release their power consumption.

no need, they don't consume appreciably more power than single-layer,
especially when compared to the power differential involved in a cpu
upgrade. for ati, a reasonable rule of thumb is a comparable nvidia
card.



-------------------------------------------
the man who crosses me and leaves me alive.
he understands nothing about tuco.
nothing.
-------------------------------------------
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 18, 2005 5:06:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 19:53:32 -0400, Husky <cbminfo@toast.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 18:35:37 -0500, "Peter van der Goes"
><p_vandergoes@toadstool.u> wrote:
>
>
>>I'm afraid he's in complete denial, Ron.
>>You're at least the fourth person who has told him to replace his shite PSU,
>>and he keeps coming back with "reasons" not to.
>>Perhaps it's a financial issue, or he doesn't know how to replace the PSU
>>(unlikely as he says he's a "radio repair" person.
>>Guess we'll just have to wish him luck with his next failed component.
>>
>
>I don't do black box hit or miss when it's my dime. The problem arose the day
>after I changed the AGP from 64 to 128. That's the ATI card. I picked up a
>$10.00 cheapie video card if the problem resurfaces.
>

i can categorically state that allocating a little more ram for
possible use in storing video textures was in no way responsible for
your problems. it's pure coincidence.

>The only thing even suggesting it's the power supply was the hot plug when it
>1st started failing.

that's a fairly good sign something is seriously wrong with your psu.

>Something that should have popped CB's everywhere.

you're very certain of that for someone who claims to be a novice.
it's rubbish.

>
>There's been no indication of ANY problem since returning from the shop other
>than the NEW DVD blowing up a CD. I'm thinking for the platter to reach that
>speed, something had to allow unlimited power in.

you have some imagination, i'll give you that much.

>Since the DVD was full of
>glass, there's no way to check if the DVD actually worked after that.
>

why? can't you open the drawer or remove the fascia to empty the glass
out?

>If in two weeks this DVD also self destructs a CD, that might narrow things
>down a bit to some sort of design problem in the DVD recorder.
>
>But if anyone cares to buy me a 500w PS to just stick in there, I'll put it in.

-------------------------------------------
the man who crosses me and leaves me alive.
he understands nothing about tuco.
nothing.
-------------------------------------------
July 18, 2005 8:27:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 19:53:32 -0400, Husky <cbminfo@toast.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 18:35:37 -0500, "Peter van der Goes"
><p_vandergoes@toadstool.u> wrote:
>
>
>>I'm afraid he's in complete denial, Ron.
>>You're at least the fourth person who has told him to replace his shite PSU,
>>and he keeps coming back with "reasons" not to.
>>Perhaps it's a financial issue, or he doesn't know how to replace the PSU
>>(unlikely as he says he's a "radio repair" person.
>>Guess we'll just have to wish him luck with his next failed component.
>>
>
>I don't do black box hit or miss when it's my dime. The problem arose the day
>after I changed the AGP from 64 to 128. That's the ATI card. I picked up a
>$10.00 cheapie video card if the problem resurfaces.
Are you saying that you actually think that changing an AGP aperture
overstressed your power supply?? That has nothing whatsoever to do
with your ATI card or PSU. Changing the aperture just allows some
system RAM to be used to hold data such as texture maps. It's RAM
that would be in use, anyway.
>
>The only thing even suggesting it's the power supply was the hot plug when it
>1st started failing. Something that should have popped CB's everywhere.
>
>There's been no indication of ANY problem since returning from the shop other
>than the NEW DVD blowing up a CD. I'm thinking for the platter to reach that
>speed, something had to allow unlimited power in. Since the DVD was full of
>glass, there's no way to check if the DVD actually worked after that.
Are you saying that supplying extra power to an optical drive will
increase its rotational velocity beyond spec??
The CD blew up because CDs sometimes blow up in modern drives that
spin them up to 48X and beyond. It was coincidence, nothing more.
>
>If in two weeks this DVD also self destructs a CD, that might narrow things
>down a bit to some sort of design problem in the DVD recorder.
Nope, the problem is in the media. If you have a CD with a tiny crack
and spin it up to 52X, the centrifugal force might widen the crack
enough to make the disk break. When it breaks at that speed, it goes
to smithereens and usually takes the drive with it. Yours is not the
first drive to die such a death. This phenomenon started to be
reported when optical drives with 40X speeds were introduced.
>
>But if anyone cares to buy me a 500w PS to just stick in there, I'll put it in.
I think that's what you'll end up doing, but if justice were done, it
would be the unethical shop that built your computer that would have
to foot the bill.

Ron
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 18, 2005 3:54:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 23:32:12 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>> But if anyone cares to buy me a 500w PS to just stick in there, I'll put
>it in.
>
>There are several reasons for a low 3.3V:
>
>1) Power supply failure imminent.
>2) Poor contact between ATX 20 pin connectors. If the connector is
> not properly seated, it overheats (ohmic losses), the metal on the
> pins oxidize, and the problem will repeat itself over and over again,
> until both the motherboard connector and the PSU connector are
> replaced.
>3) The ATX power supply has a 3.3V pin that has two wires on it. The
> thinner of the two wires is a feedback wire (remote sense). If the
> thinner wire is broken, the output voltage will drop, as the
> PSU monitors the 3.3V via an internal node inside the PSU, and the
> PSU will no longer compensate for drop in the cable harness.
>
>As for our rational in suggesting a preemptive PSU replacement, you
>can wait for it to fail, or you can take the free warning it is giving
>you. For example, the supply in my first computer, the fan developed
>more variation in speed than it used to have. I checked the +12V
>via the hardware monitor, and indeed the +12V wasn't regulating very
>well. Rather than take a chance on the PSU damaging the computer, I
>pulled it and replaced it. You could argue that I don't know for sure
>that the supply was faulty, but I would argue that there is nothing
>else different in the configuration to account for the new behavior.
>If you had a $300 power supply, and only $200 worth of computer
>components, replacing the supply would be silly. But if the components
>cost you $1000 and the PSU cost $50, it would be silly not to replace it.
>And cleaning up the mess afterwards can be costly, especially if you end
>up with "domino failures" - one guy took the processor out of his
>damaged computer, plugged it into a friend's motherboard, and killed
>that motherboard - it is much better to replace the PSU before
>something happens than after.
>
>The power supply is the single most likely component to fail. And it
>doesn't even matter which brand you buy - they all fail, even the
>PCP&C ones have reported failures. But the Leadman/Powmax of the
>world fail a lot more often than the good ones, so when someone posts
>about how they got a good deal on a $13 power supply, and why doesn't
>their computer work, it doesn't take rocket science to decide what is
>wrong. All it takes is a few symptoms (burned smell, hot PSU case,
>changes in PSU behavior, out of spec voltages, video artifacts, crash
>when 3D game starts etc.)
>
>It is too bad devices like this one aren't cheaper. I own one of these
>and it is indispensible for determining what is going on. It is a
>DC clamp-on ammeter, and the lower ranges are what I use. No need
>to cut any wires to make current measurements.

An Amprobe might be worthwhile, but I've found the RS Digital multi range works
just as well for 99.9% of home needs. I'd never be able to use one often enough
to make the purchase sensible.

You can check for shorts with my RS just as easily as with an Amprobe. And this
thing gets extreme use by me.

I've also considered cascade failure. It hadn't happened by the time I took it
to the shop. It's more or less now just sit and wait to see if something goes.

This New DVD has already created 2 BSOD's. I'm thinking a dual layer DVD may be
ahead of it's time, or Memorex hasn't perfected it yet. M$ suggested a NEW
driver. It currently uses a M$ DVD driver. Then there's the conflict with
Nero's DVD player and the ATI capture. I'm thinking that may be related to this
DVD crashing also.

ie: With the ATI [has it's own DVD player] if the TV's on, when you choose DVD
also it asks to shutdown TV, run DVD with reduced capabilities, or cancel.

Fire up Nero's DVD with TV on, Nero bulls ahead with reduced capabilities
disabling capture driver for any other program and never restoring it.
If TV is off and Nero is already on DVD, TV fails to load every time. order of
loading..

This one here also screws up the NEXT loading of the TV. if there's no reboot,
or sometimes even if there is a reboot. It disables the capture driver, or
changes the +/- 0.2 clock stability. Minor inconveniences that a 2nd reboot
repairs.

Today's BSOD with Memorex DVD, TV was on. Usually get the win prompt to run the
DVD via a selection of about 15 different programs either no prompt, prompt
every time, or cancel. That screen doesn't appear with this particular BSOD.
And this BSOD isn't a constant.

Assuming this DVD lasts, I'm dying to see how Nero writes to a Dual layer 9 gig
DVD. 3 pack around $15.00 or more. Just haven't decided on what I have worth
sticking on a $5.00 CD platter.

As for the 3.3v I'm running same as before the shop with a replaced DVD [same
make/model] but haven't plugged the HP CD recorder in yet. And no alerts of any
kind, voltage, fan or heat.
3rd day...

And for the guy that doesn't understand how a motor works, ask yourself how
they can have a variable speed motor without there being more than one motor.
They change the speed by varying the current flowing thru the windings.
[unlimited power = excessive speed] A short can accomplish the same thing as a
DESIGNED change of current.

I'm still prone to suspecting the video card 1st. And these DVD's overloading
the system 2nd.

Without any CB's to pop as they should have previously, long before taking out
the 2 DVD's, and making the power plug too hot to touch, giving these things
MORE POWER before finding the source that started this trouble is just asking
for trouble.. It's been running over a year on this PS.

If the current setup can't handle this DVD, do I really want to increase to
500w, just to use this brand DVD recorder ? How will the P4P, and all the other
components work with all the power they can use after wearing themselves in at
a lower rate for over a year ?

Bigger power supply on Old parts isn't a good idea.

Old parts decay, higher power makes them decay faster.
see : Light bulb if you doubt this statement. <- this for the guy that thinks
motor speed is unrelated to voltage and current.

Then there's always the 1st completely overlooked solution that I've seen as a
source [you mentioned above] is check and see if it's all plugged in. That was
with my A: Floppy [twice this month, strain on power cord stretching it]
I've had to jiggle the ATI card more than once to get things working AGAIN and
AGAIN..

One of my 1st jobs, school milk cooler wasn't working. Because the plug was
sitting on the ground and not in the outlet.

What I find so totally confusing is why they don't have a system hardware
program to check all these voltages, currents, speeds, etc... I know the asus
probe. Nice little Early warning system. But way too limited.
--
more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 18, 2005 4:23:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 04:27:21 GMT, milleron <millerdot90@SPAMlessosu.edu>
wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 19:53:32 -0400, Husky <cbminfo@toast.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 18:35:37 -0500, "Peter van der Goes"
>><p_vandergoes@toadstool.u> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm afraid he's in complete denial, Ron.
>>>You're at least the fourth person who has told him to replace his shite PSU,
>>>and he keeps coming back with "reasons" not to.
>>>Perhaps it's a financial issue, or he doesn't know how to replace the PSU
>>>(unlikely as he says he's a "radio repair" person.
>>>Guess we'll just have to wish him luck with his next failed component.
>>>
>>
>>I don't do black box hit or miss when it's my dime. The problem arose the day
>>after I changed the AGP from 64 to 128. That's the ATI card. I picked up a
>>$10.00 cheapie video card if the problem resurfaces.
>Are you saying that you actually think that changing an AGP aperture
>overstressed your power supply?? That has nothing whatsoever to do
>with your ATI card or PSU. Changing the aperture just allows some
>system RAM to be used to hold data such as texture maps. It's RAM
>that would be in use, anyway.

I'm not suggesting anything. That's the only change to the system I had
anything to do with the day before the low voltage over heating problem
occurred.
Some sort of warning on the BIOS about changing any of the setting below could
interfere with the stability of the machine. This is on the over clocking page.
And changing design parameters also changes current flowing. Something I find
not worth the cost for the result. I hadn't equated AGP aperture with over
clocking. The ATI claims 128 megs. so it would only make sense that a 128 meg
aperture would work with it. And it did for 1 day.
Then next day the low voltage goes berserk.

The thing that may have a problem here is the asus AGP or the ATI AGP 8x, can't
recall offhand is 1.5v or 3.3v. I'm thinking the ATI AGP is 1.5v, and the asus
AGP is 3,3v. Anyone else now see the relation to the low voltage warning ?
the ATI at a 64 meg aperture NEVER exceeded it's 1.5v design. but with the 128
meg, it may have pulled more power on the 3.3v, but not enough. Over 1.5, and
under 3.3v. resulting in the less than 3.3v warning.

>>
>>The only thing even suggesting it's the power supply was the hot plug when it
>>1st started failing. Something that should have popped CB's everywhere.
>>
>>There's been no indication of ANY problem since returning from the shop other
>>than the NEW DVD blowing up a CD. I'm thinking for the platter to reach that
>>speed, something had to allow unlimited power in. Since the DVD was full of
>>glass, there's no way to check if the DVD actually worked after that.
>Are you saying that supplying extra power to an optical drive will
>increase its rotational velocity beyond spec??
>The CD blew up because CDs sometimes blow up in modern drives that
>spin them up to 48X and beyond. It was coincidence, nothing more.
>>
>>If in two weeks this DVD also self destructs a CD, that might narrow things
>>down a bit to some sort of design problem in the DVD recorder.
>Nope, the problem is in the media. If you have a CD with a tiny crack
>and spin it up to 52X, the centrifugal force might widen the crack
>enough to make the disk break. When it breaks at that speed, it goes
>to smithereens and usually takes the drive with it. Yours is not the
>first drive to die such a death. This phenomenon started to be
>reported when optical drives with 40X speeds were introduced.

Office depot had never heard of this phenomenon. Neither had I till now.
I think in the case of this particular CD, age was the only variable. It was a
7 year old Imation. no cracks, unless they form from usage.

This doesn't sound good. This Memorex shows 48x on CDs.
I can see, don't stick cracked CD's in, but if it isn't cracked and it's an OLD
CD never heard of anything faster than 8x, how do you use them without
destroying a drive ?

Sounds like time to fire up the HP, copy all old CD's to the drive, and
reinstall to 48x CD's / DVD's... wow 9 gig DVD's for data. I think I've found
how to backup every old program on 2 disks.
>>
>>But if anyone cares to buy me a 500w PS to just stick in there, I'll put it in.
>I think that's what you'll end up doing, but if justice were done, it
>would be the unethical shop that built your computer that would have
>to foot the bill.
Again ? After a year of working without a glitch ? I've only found one computer
employee in this area that earned the title of Tech.

I was told by Epson when I had a bad floppy, that it was failing because of a
dusty cabinet. [After less than 10 minutes running]. 2nd Shop new repair guy.
Plugged the floppy in. Had nothing to do with dust. That Epson business went
out of business long ago.

--
more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 18, 2005 7:52:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 13:48:18 -0400, nospam@needed.com (Paul) wrote:

>In article <dbb9qf$g9v$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Stephan Grossklass
><sgrokla-nospam04q2@yahoo.de> wrote:
>
>> Husky schrieb:
>>
>> > On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:17:23 -0500, "Peter van der Goes"
>> > <p_vandergoes@toadstool.u> wrote:
>> >
>> >>"Husky" <cbminfo@toast.net> wrote in message
>> >>> Not real sure where the problem is on this. I can't trust the local
>> >>> computer
>> >>> repair any more. 3 robberies from them is enough.
>> >>>
>> >>> Asus P4P800 deluxe
>> >>> 400 watt power supply
>> >><snip>
>> >>
>> >>Given your history with the shop in question, I'd look into the quality of
>> >>the 400W PSU. Just because it *says* 400W, doesn't make it an adequate PSU.
>> >>Post the brand name (if any) and the detailed specs which should be on a
>> >>label on the PSU (ratings for the different voltages supplied) and people
>> >>here can make recommendations.
>> >>My *guess* is that the shop threw in the cheapest PSU they could find and
>> >>that it is causing your problems.
>> >>
>> > Model LPK 2-30. 400 watt sticker on it.
>>
>> Seems to be a Linkworld model and apparently used to be sold as a 300
>> watter. IIRC Linkworld is a cheapo brand. Get something that's of decent
>> quality, maybe a Fortron / Sparkle, Enermax, Antec (not the cheapo
>> series), Seasonic; a 350 watter should do. SuperFlower supposedly has
>> good quality stuff as well. If you want a *real* 400 watter, the Zalman
>> ZM400B-APS (a rebranded Fortron) would be a good bet.
>>
>> BTW, this is a good thread on PSU quality:
>> http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=131195
>>
>> Stephan
>
>Good catch. I couldn't find the LPK 2-30 in a web search, but
>the Linkworld brand made it much easier to find.
>
>There is a picture here, of the label on the side of the LPK2
>supply. From Newegg "Linkworld 3131G-C8815U" N82E16811164017
>
>http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.asp?image=11-16...
>
>Just the picture itself...
>http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/11-164-017-07.J...
>
>What is pretty funny, is the Newegg advert says the supply is 300W,
>and the sticker in the upper right hand corner of the picture
>shows "400W". And the combined power rating on 3.3V&5V rails,
>typically doesn't even allow the 5V rail to go to its maximum
>amps. I would say the best kind of place for this supply,
>is the local land fill (dump) - I really wish computer cases
>did not ship with PSUs in them...
>
>Always be suspicious, when the web site refuses to list specs:
>http://www.linkworld.com.tw/power_supply/power_lpk_seri...
>
>At a time like this, you should be using either the hardware
>monitor in the BIOS (which lists the voltages), or Asus Probe
>while in Windows (where the computer will have a more
>realistic load on it). Watch Asus Probe as you test stuff,
>to determine whether the power supply stays within the 5%
>regulation limits. If the power dips on any rails, that
>could be a sign that the PSU is no match for the computer.
>Asus Probe keeps a running history in its graphical plot, so
>if you quickly exit a test program like 3DMark, you can look
>back at the chart for signs the power supply is dipping.
>
>I recommend a minimum of 12V@15A for the 12V rating (that is
>for a P4 system stripped to minimum components). Considering
>the number of drives you've got, and the video card, perhaps
>12V@20A might be a more comfortable minimum. You can work out
>your own numbers here:
>
>http://takaman.jp/D/?english
>
>On my P4C800-E Deluxe, measured 3.3V max amps is 14.4 amps, with
>four sticks of RAM. The +5V has very little motherboard load
>(~0.5A), but your video card draws 5.5A from +5V, each disk
>drive 1A, each CD/DVD could be up to 1.5A, to give you a better
>estimate. Takaman cannot know how each motherboard company
>loads and derives lower voltages, so 3.3 and 5V ratings will
>be less accurate. Asus runs the memory off 3.3V, and that is a
>fair portion of the 3.3V load. The video card will also
>take a chunk from 3.3V.(The P4P/P4C series would likely share
>power supplying architecture, but YMMV.)
>
>The DVD drive exploding could be a media failure (crack in disk,
>spun at high speed, flies apart).
>
>So, when shopping for a PSU, look at the individual numbers,
>rather than just relying on "400W" or the like.
>
> Paul

I just did some diggin on the LPK 2-30. I tried to take a shot of it, but my RS
digital at $16.00 doesn't have the resolution to capture the text on my PS.

the lowest wattage is the 3.3v at 350w and 18 amps. All the others are 400 on
up. The image in this photo is something else completely different from the
label on mine. Assuming there is anything in the labeling, I'd say this is a
400w despite the 350 on the 3.3v line. Where total power is still only 145 max.
mine =
350w total power on +3.3v +5v is 145w max.

The same entry on the web image at newegg shows
150w total power on +3.3v +5v is 110w max.


--
more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
July 20, 2005 4:24:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Husky wrote:
> If there's a short or any other kind of electrical failure, all your theories
> about what should happen go out the window.
> Though AC isn't the same as DC, if you have one of those cheap $2.00 6-12 volt
> DC motors, give it 24-volts or more. Wearing eye protection, and steel gloves,
> behind a blast fence.
> AC can do the same thing, with much more damaging results because of the size
> of most wire and commutators inside an AC motor.
> But then almost all motors in the computer probably are DC.
> Small motors normally are DC.
> And excessive voltage [twice the voltage it's designed for] can be destructive
> to EVERYTHING around it.

The motor in a current CD/DVD drive is a brushless DC motor. If there is
a short in the control electronics the motor will just stop working or
burn out, not speed out of control.

It is by far more likely that the disc that shattered had a crack near
the center of the disc which caused it to break apart when spun at
normal speed for that drive.

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hancockr@nospamshaw.ca
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/
!