AMD64/PCI-Express debacle

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

I was hoping some of the experts might be able to clarify things for me. I am
looking to buy a new, powerful system for high-end gaming purposes, watching
movies, Photoshop, etc. And hopeing to keep the price under $1500. I was told
that AMD 64 is the best processor with potential now, and that PCI-Express is
the wave of the future for video cards. However, my normal internet shop
doesn't carry these together, and I heard that its because of a delay in mobo
production.

Is my info correct? Is this system the best i can do? Is it worth waiting
for these to come out together before purchasing a new system (how long?)?

Thx so much!

#an aquaintance gave me the following advice- does it sound on target?#

Building and fixing computers is my hobby so maybe I can give some info.

Athlon 64 are the best for gaming right now. Pentiums are better for video
encoding work. You sound like a gamer so I reccomend Athlon 64.
Here is a link comparing pentiums and Athlon 64s in Doom3.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7
(Pay no attention to the Athlon FXs or the Pentium EEs. They are hideously
expensive and mainly used for servers.) As you can see Athlon 64s dominate.

There are no PCI-express motherboards for Athlon 64 right now. They won't be
coming out until after Christmas. Pentiums do have PCI-express motherboards
and DDR-II, but they are slower than Athlon 64s using DDR.

DDR-II is faster in terms of how much info it can transfer, but DDR is
faster in terms of how quickly this info can be shuffled back and forth
(latency). Basically, there is no advantage to DDR-II right now. Athlon 64s
have no plan (or need) to use DDR-II until DDR-II gets a lot faster (late
2005 or 2006).

Also in 2005 dual core CPUs are coming out for Pentiums and Athlons. These
will probably require new motherboards and faster RAM.

Ok now the big question: Wait or build now? It's easy to get caught in the
idea that you need to upgrade down the line. On the CPU side, you should only
upgrade if the processor is twice as fast. As you can see from the CPU
comparison chart, that wont happen any time soon. So lets not worry about
ever upgrading the CPU. It's not worth the money and it's just a pain in the
but to change it out. Just buy a good chip now ($250~) and be down with it.

On the graphics side, it's a little more complicated. I recommend that you
buy the fastest graphics card easily available (Geforce 6800 GT w/ 256MB
RAM). It will cost about $400 dollars and its a good mach for any chip you
buy now. You can buy a gamer cards for $200 dollars now, but you will
probably want to upgrade later. S0 that means you will spend another $200 for
a new graphics card later that would just equal the Geforce 6800 GT you can
buy now. You dont really save yourself any money not getting the fastest card
now.

Even if you could buy another $400 video card in two years time, the rest of
your system would slow it down. So again no point in upgrading.

Until after Xmas AGP graphics cards are the most popular and the easiest to
find. By spring all graphics cards and motherboards will be moving to
PCI-express. There will always be graphics cards coming out that support AGP,
but they might not be the top of the line after spring. PCI-express isnt
faster than AGP. It has some benefits in terms of how motherboard power is
used, but other than that there is nothing.

You can'T buy modems, ethenet cards, TV cards, sound cards or anything else
for PCI-express yet accept graphics cards.

I reccommend building now, and dont go cheap. You will have a computer that
will last you for a solid 3-4 years of gaming, DVD-ripping, and whatever else
gets your rocks off.

Here is my suggestion for a new computer:
Athlon 64 (754 pin socket) 300+, 3200+ or 3400+
Mother board: DFI LANParty UT nF3-250Gb
Review: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2198
RAM: 1 gig DDR (but you are fine if you choose 512MB)
Graphics card: any Geforce 6800 GT
Hard drive: Hitachi deskstar (200gb and up)
DVD-burner: Pioneer 108
Case and power supply: Something good and from a namebrand. Get a GOOD and
SILENT power supply! It drives me nuts if my computer is noisy.

Ethernet, sound card, usb, ethernet are all built into the motherboard.

I also recommend getting a good monitor. I use a 19" LCD. If you can afford
it I reccommend an LCD. Let me know what your budget is and what you are
looking for (LCD or CRT). Again, dont go cheap! The monitor is the most
important part of the comoputer! Your eyes will thank you and it makes movies
and games much more enjoyable. You can also use for a new computer down the
line (something you cant do with the other computer parts).

IN america you can get most of this about $1500. BUT IN JAPN IT'S ABOUT $2000.
5 answers Last reply
More about amd64 express debacle
  1. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    I am going to reference a couple of articles you may want to read:
    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/64bit.html
    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/doom3-cpu.html

    Here is what I would seriously suggest. Dual Core CPU's will be
    shipping shortly. PCI Express IS the wave of the future. Almost all
    add-on cards will be made in PCI Express from this point on. If you buy
    a system now, at least you can still have SATA300 by purchasing a PCI
    Express SATA Card. One downside to the newer boards with PCI Express is
    the use of DDR2 RAM as it is expensive, has poor performance, and just
    isn't mature yet. As for the fight between AMD and Intel and which
    chipset to choose, you do some research on the internet.

    Intel and AMD are scheduled to release dual cored CPU's and Intel's will
    have 64bit capabilities. They both are also working on virtualization
    techniques. Search Google for AMD Pacifica and Intel Vanderpool.

    Now for gaming, the processor and chipset will have some impact, but the
    most crucial peice of hardware is going to be the video card.
    Unfortunately, ATI has kind of flopped with their X800 XT. I love ATI
    products (own a 9800XT), but if I were to buy a card right now, it would
    be a nVidia Geforce 6800 series card. If you choose to wait for the
    dual core CPU's to be released, you may find ATI releasing their new VPU
    built off a brand new core instead of stretching the limits of their old
    R3XX architecture. Have to wait for all the benchmarking and such, but
    you will see many hardware review sites and tweaking/overclocking sites
    running quite a few tests coming up here in the next couple of months.
    There is currently a huge push to release this new technology before
    Christmas season (which really starts late November). This is when I
    would look into buying your hardware ;)

    ----
    Nathan McNulty

    jonnyd wrote:
    > I was hoping some of the experts might be able to clarify things for me. I am
    > looking to buy a new, powerful system for high-end gaming purposes, watching
    > movies, Photoshop, etc. And hopeing to keep the price under $1500. I was told
    > that AMD 64 is the best processor with potential now, and that PCI-Express is
    > the wave of the future for video cards. However, my normal internet shop
    > doesn't carry these together, and I heard that its because of a delay in mobo
    > production.
    >
    > Is my info correct? Is this system the best i can do? Is it worth waiting
    > for these to come out together before purchasing a new system (how long?)?
    >
    > Thx so much!
    >
    > #an aquaintance gave me the following advice- does it sound on target?#
    >
    > Building and fixing computers is my hobby so maybe I can give some info.
    >
    > Athlon 64 are the best for gaming right now. Pentiums are better for video
    > encoding work. You sound like a gamer so I reccomend Athlon 64.
    > Here is a link comparing pentiums and Athlon 64s in Doom3.
    > http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7
    > (Pay no attention to the Athlon FXs or the Pentium EEs. They are hideously
    > expensive and mainly used for servers.) As you can see Athlon 64s dominate.
    >
    > There are no PCI-express motherboards for Athlon 64 right now. They won't be
    > coming out until after Christmas. Pentiums do have PCI-express motherboards
    > and DDR-II, but they are slower than Athlon 64s using DDR.
    >
    > DDR-II is faster in terms of how much info it can transfer, but DDR is
    > faster in terms of how quickly this info can be shuffled back and forth
    > (latency). Basically, there is no advantage to DDR-II right now. Athlon 64s
    > have no plan (or need) to use DDR-II until DDR-II gets a lot faster (late
    > 2005 or 2006).
    >
    > Also in 2005 dual core CPUs are coming out for Pentiums and Athlons. These
    > will probably require new motherboards and faster RAM.
    >
    > Ok now the big question: Wait or build now? It's easy to get caught in the
    > idea that you need to upgrade down the line. On the CPU side, you should only
    > upgrade if the processor is twice as fast. As you can see from the CPU
    > comparison chart, that wont happen any time soon. So lets not worry about
    > ever upgrading the CPU. It's not worth the money and it's just a pain in the
    > but to change it out. Just buy a good chip now ($250~) and be down with it.
    >
    > On the graphics side, it's a little more complicated. I recommend that you
    > buy the fastest graphics card easily available (Geforce 6800 GT w/ 256MB
    > RAM). It will cost about $400 dollars and its a good mach for any chip you
    > buy now. You can buy a gamer cards for $200 dollars now, but you will
    > probably want to upgrade later. S0 that means you will spend another $200 for
    > a new graphics card later that would just equal the Geforce 6800 GT you can
    > buy now. You dont really save yourself any money not getting the fastest card
    > now.
    >
    > Even if you could buy another $400 video card in two years time, the rest of
    > your system would slow it down. So again no point in upgrading.
    >
    > Until after Xmas AGP graphics cards are the most popular and the easiest to
    > find. By spring all graphics cards and motherboards will be moving to
    > PCI-express. There will always be graphics cards coming out that support AGP,
    > but they might not be the top of the line after spring. PCI-express isnt
    > faster than AGP. It has some benefits in terms of how motherboard power is
    > used, but other than that there is nothing.
    >
    > You can'T buy modems, ethenet cards, TV cards, sound cards or anything else
    > for PCI-express yet accept graphics cards.
    >
    > I reccommend building now, and dont go cheap. You will have a computer that
    > will last you for a solid 3-4 years of gaming, DVD-ripping, and whatever else
    > gets your rocks off.
    >
    > Here is my suggestion for a new computer:
    > Athlon 64 (754 pin socket) 300+, 3200+ or 3400+
    > Mother board: DFI LANParty UT nF3-250Gb
    > Review: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2198
    > RAM: 1 gig DDR (but you are fine if you choose 512MB)
    > Graphics card: any Geforce 6800 GT
    > Hard drive: Hitachi deskstar (200gb and up)
    > DVD-burner: Pioneer 108
    > Case and power supply: Something good and from a namebrand. Get a GOOD and
    > SILENT power supply! It drives me nuts if my computer is noisy.
    >
    > Ethernet, sound card, usb, ethernet are all built into the motherboard.
    >
    > I also recommend getting a good monitor. I use a 19" LCD. If you can afford
    > it I reccommend an LCD. Let me know what your budget is and what you are
    > looking for (LCD or CRT). Again, dont go cheap! The monitor is the most
    > important part of the comoputer! Your eyes will thank you and it makes movies
    > and games much more enjoyable. You can also use for a new computer down the
    > line (something you cant do with the other computer parts).
    >
    > IN america you can get most of this about $1500. BUT IN JAPN IT'S ABOUT $2000.
    >
  2. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    Nathan;

    One thing I would like to offer in addition to the information that you
    provided;
    the Intel dual core processors will not run 64 bits natively, but will
    initially be emulated. This is a very serious consideration. Given the
    option of a true 64 bit alternative (AMD64), and a product rushed to market
    to combat loss of market share (Intel), the choice would be obvious to
    anyone. Farther on down the road, when Intel introduces true 64 bit dual
    core, then it will be a different story. But for the next few months, it
    would be best to hold on Intel as a choice for truly high-end performance.

    Bobby

    "Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
    news:uB3bQBWmEHA.1152@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
    >I am going to reference a couple of articles you may want to read:
    > http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/64bit.html
    > http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/doom3-cpu.html
    >
    > Here is what I would seriously suggest. Dual Core CPU's will be shipping
    > shortly. PCI Express IS the wave of the future. Almost all add-on cards
    > will be made in PCI Express from this point on. If you buy a system now,
    > at least you can still have SATA300 by purchasing a PCI Express SATA Card.
    > One downside to the newer boards with PCI Express is the use of DDR2 RAM
    > as it is expensive, has poor performance, and just isn't mature yet. As
    > for the fight between AMD and Intel and which chipset to choose, you do
    > some research on the internet.
    >
    > Intel and AMD are scheduled to release dual cored CPU's and Intel's will
    > have 64bit capabilities. They both are also working on virtualization
    > techniques. Search Google for AMD Pacifica and Intel Vanderpool.
    >
    > Now for gaming, the processor and chipset will have some impact, but the
    > most crucial peice of hardware is going to be the video card.
    > Unfortunately, ATI has kind of flopped with their X800 XT. I love ATI
    > products (own a 9800XT), but if I were to buy a card right now, it would
    > be a nVidia Geforce 6800 series card. If you choose to wait for the dual
    > core CPU's to be released, you may find ATI releasing their new VPU built
    > off a brand new core instead of stretching the limits of their old R3XX
    > architecture. Have to wait for all the benchmarking and such, but you
    > will see many hardware review sites and tweaking/overclocking sites
    > running quite a few tests coming up here in the next couple of months.
    > There is currently a huge push to release this new technology before
    > Christmas season (which really starts late November). This is when I
    > would look into buying your hardware ;)
    >
    > ----
    > Nathan McNulty
    >
    > jonnyd wrote:
    >> I was hoping some of the experts might be able to clarify things for me.
    >> I am looking to buy a new, powerful system for high-end gaming purposes,
    >> watching movies, Photoshop, etc. And hopeing to keep the price under
    >> $1500. I was told that AMD 64 is the best processor with potential now,
    >> and that PCI-Express is the wave of the future for video cards. However,
    >> my normal internet shop doesn't carry these together, and I heard that
    >> its because of a delay in mobo production. Is my info correct? Is this
    >> system the best i can do? Is it worth waiting for these to come out
    >> together before purchasing a new system (how long?)? Thx so much!
    >>
    >> #an aquaintance gave me the following advice- does it sound on target?#
    >>
    >> Building and fixing computers is my hobby so maybe I can give some info.
    >> Athlon 64 are the best for gaming right now. Pentiums are better for
    >> video encoding work. You sound like a gamer so I reccomend Athlon 64.
    >> Here is a link comparing pentiums and Athlon 64s in Doom3.
    >> http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7 (Pay no
    >> attention to the Athlon FXs or the Pentium EEs. They are hideously
    >> expensive and mainly used for servers.) As you can see Athlon 64s
    >> dominate. There are no PCI-express motherboards for Athlon 64 right now.
    >> They won't be coming out until after Christmas. Pentiums do have
    >> PCI-express motherboards and DDR-II, but they are slower than Athlon 64s
    >> using DDR. DDR-II is faster in terms of how much info it can transfer,
    >> but DDR is faster in terms of how quickly this info can be shuffled back
    >> and forth (latency). Basically, there is no advantage to DDR-II right
    >> now. Athlon 64s have no plan (or need) to use DDR-II until DDR-II gets a
    >> lot faster (late 2005 or 2006). Also in 2005 dual core CPUs are coming
    >> out for Pentiums and Athlons. These will probably require new
    >> motherboards and faster RAM. Ok now the big question: Wait or build now?
    >> It's easy to get caught in the idea that you need to upgrade down the
    >> line. On the CPU side, you should only upgrade if the processor is twice
    >> as fast. As you can see from the CPU comparison chart, that wont happen
    >> any time soon. So lets not worry about ever upgrading the CPU. It's not
    >> worth the money and it's just a pain in the but to change it out. Just
    >> buy a good chip now ($250~) and be down with it. On the graphics side,
    >> it's a little more complicated. I recommend that you buy the fastest
    >> graphics card easily available (Geforce 6800 GT w/ 256MB RAM). It will
    >> cost about $400 dollars and its a good mach for any chip you buy now. You
    >> can buy a gamer cards for $200 dollars now, but you will probably want to
    >> upgrade later. S0 that means you will spend another $200 for a new
    >> graphics card later that would just equal the Geforce 6800 GT you can buy
    >> now. You dont really save yourself any money not getting the fastest card
    >> now. Even if you could buy another $400 video card in two years time, the
    >> rest of your system would slow it down. So again no point in upgrading.
    >> Until after Xmas AGP graphics cards are the most popular and the easiest
    >> to find. By spring all graphics cards and motherboards will be moving to
    >> PCI-express. There will always be graphics cards coming out that support
    >> AGP, but they might not be the top of the line after spring. PCI-express
    >> isnt faster than AGP. It has some benefits in terms of how motherboard
    >> power is used, but other than that there is nothing. You can'T buy
    >> modems, ethenet cards, TV cards, sound cards or anything else for
    >> PCI-express yet accept graphics cards. I reccommend building now, and
    >> dont go cheap. You will have a computer that will last you for a solid
    >> 3-4 years of gaming, DVD-ripping, and whatever else gets your rocks off.
    >> Here is my suggestion for a new computer: Athlon 64 (754 pin socket)
    >> 300+, 3200+ or 3400+ Mother board: DFI LANParty UT nF3-250Gb Review:
    >> http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2198 RAM: 1 gig DDR (but you
    >> are fine if you choose 512MB) Graphics card: any Geforce 6800 GT Hard
    >> drive: Hitachi deskstar (200gb and up) DVD-burner: Pioneer 108 Case and
    >> power supply: Something good and from a namebrand. Get a GOOD and SILENT
    >> power supply! It drives me nuts if my computer is noisy. Ethernet, sound
    >> card, usb, ethernet are all built into the motherboard. I also recommend
    >> getting a good monitor. I use a 19" LCD. If you can afford it I
    >> reccommend an LCD. Let me know what your budget is and what you are
    >> looking for (LCD or CRT). Again, dont go cheap! The monitor is the most
    >> important part of the comoputer! Your eyes will thank you and it makes
    >> movies and games much more enjoyable. You can also use for a new computer
    >> down the line (something you cant do with the other computer parts). IN
    >> america you can get most of this about $1500. BUT IN JAPN IT'S ABOUT
    >> $2000.
    >>
  3. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    I want to edit that last message :)

    One article that I was reading had the wrong year for the release of the
    dual core CPU's. I wouldn't wait for them as they are late 2005, not
    2004 as was the typo on the page I was reading.

    ----
    Nathan McNulty


    Nathan McNulty wrote:
    > I am going to reference a couple of articles you may want to read:
    > http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/64bit.html
    > http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/doom3-cpu.html
    >
    > Here is what I would seriously suggest. Dual Core CPU's will be
    > shipping shortly. PCI Express IS the wave of the future. Almost all
    > add-on cards will be made in PCI Express from this point on. If you buy
    > a system now, at least you can still have SATA300 by purchasing a PCI
    > Express SATA Card. One downside to the newer boards with PCI Express is
    > the use of DDR2 RAM as it is expensive, has poor performance, and just
    > isn't mature yet. As for the fight between AMD and Intel and which
    > chipset to choose, you do some research on the internet.
    >
    > Intel and AMD are scheduled to release dual cored CPU's and Intel's will
    > have 64bit capabilities. They both are also working on virtualization
    > techniques. Search Google for AMD Pacifica and Intel Vanderpool.
    >
    > Now for gaming, the processor and chipset will have some impact, but the
    > most crucial peice of hardware is going to be the video card.
    > Unfortunately, ATI has kind of flopped with their X800 XT. I love ATI
    > products (own a 9800XT), but if I were to buy a card right now, it would
    > be a nVidia Geforce 6800 series card. If you choose to wait for the
    > dual core CPU's to be released, you may find ATI releasing their new VPU
    > built off a brand new core instead of stretching the limits of their old
    > R3XX architecture. Have to wait for all the benchmarking and such, but
    > you will see many hardware review sites and tweaking/overclocking sites
    > running quite a few tests coming up here in the next couple of months.
    > There is currently a huge push to release this new technology before
    > Christmas season (which really starts late November). This is when I
    > would look into buying your hardware ;)
    >
    > ----
    > Nathan McNulty
    >
    > jonnyd wrote:
    >
    >> I was hoping some of the experts might be able to clarify things for
    >> me. I am looking to buy a new, powerful system for high-end gaming
    >> purposes, watching movies, Photoshop, etc. And hopeing to keep the
    >> price under $1500. I was told that AMD 64 is the best processor with
    >> potential now, and that PCI-Express is the wave of the future for
    >> video cards. However, my normal internet shop doesn't carry these
    >> together, and I heard that its because of a delay in mobo production.
    >> Is my info correct? Is this system the best i can do? Is it worth
    >> waiting for these to come out together before purchasing a new system
    >> (how long?)?
    >> Thx so much!
    >>
    >> #an aquaintance gave me the following advice- does it sound on target?#
    >>
    >> Building and fixing computers is my hobby so maybe I can give some info.
    >> Athlon 64 are the best for gaming right now. Pentiums are better for
    >> video encoding work. You sound like a gamer so I reccomend Athlon 64.
    >> Here is a link comparing pentiums and Athlon 64s in Doom3.
    >> http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7 (Pay no
    >> attention to the Athlon FXs or the Pentium EEs. They are hideously
    >> expensive and mainly used for servers.) As you can see Athlon 64s
    >> dominate.
    >> There are no PCI-express motherboards for Athlon 64 right now. They
    >> won't be coming out until after Christmas. Pentiums do have
    >> PCI-express motherboards and DDR-II, but they are slower than Athlon
    >> 64s using DDR.
    >> DDR-II is faster in terms of how much info it can transfer, but DDR is
    >> faster in terms of how quickly this info can be shuffled back and
    >> forth (latency). Basically, there is no advantage to DDR-II right now.
    >> Athlon 64s have no plan (or need) to use DDR-II until DDR-II gets a
    >> lot faster (late 2005 or 2006).
    >> Also in 2005 dual core CPUs are coming out for Pentiums and Athlons.
    >> These will probably require new motherboards and faster RAM.
    >> Ok now the big question: Wait or build now? It's easy to get caught in
    >> the idea that you need to upgrade down the line. On the CPU side, you
    >> should only upgrade if the processor is twice as fast. As you can see
    >> from the CPU comparison chart, that wont happen any time soon. So lets
    >> not worry about ever upgrading the CPU. It's not worth the money and
    >> it's just a pain in the but to change it out. Just buy a good chip now
    >> ($250~) and be down with it.
    >> On the graphics side, it's a little more complicated. I recommend that
    >> you buy the fastest graphics card easily available (Geforce 6800 GT w/
    >> 256MB RAM). It will cost about $400 dollars and its a good mach for
    >> any chip you buy now. You can buy a gamer cards for $200 dollars now,
    >> but you will probably want to upgrade later. S0 that means you will
    >> spend another $200 for a new graphics card later that would just equal
    >> the Geforce 6800 GT you can buy now. You dont really save yourself any
    >> money not getting the fastest card now.
    >> Even if you could buy another $400 video card in two years time, the
    >> rest of your system would slow it down. So again no point in upgrading.
    >> Until after Xmas AGP graphics cards are the most popular and the
    >> easiest to find. By spring all graphics cards and motherboards will be
    >> moving to PCI-express. There will always be graphics cards coming out
    >> that support AGP, but they might not be the top of the line after
    >> spring. PCI-express isnt faster than AGP. It has some benefits in
    >> terms of how motherboard power is used, but other than that there is
    >> nothing.
    >> You can'T buy modems, ethenet cards, TV cards, sound cards or anything
    >> else for PCI-express yet accept graphics cards.
    >> I reccommend building now, and dont go cheap. You will have a computer
    >> that will last you for a solid 3-4 years of gaming, DVD-ripping, and
    >> whatever else gets your rocks off.
    >> Here is my suggestion for a new computer: Athlon 64 (754 pin socket)
    >> 300+, 3200+ or 3400+ Mother board: DFI LANParty UT nF3-250Gb Review:
    >> http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2198 RAM: 1 gig DDR (but
    >> you are fine if you choose 512MB) Graphics card: any Geforce 6800 GT
    >> Hard drive: Hitachi deskstar (200gb and up) DVD-burner: Pioneer 108
    >> Case and power supply: Something good and from a namebrand. Get a GOOD
    >> and SILENT power supply! It drives me nuts if my computer is noisy.
    >> Ethernet, sound card, usb, ethernet are all built into the motherboard.
    >> I also recommend getting a good monitor. I use a 19" LCD. If you can
    >> afford it I reccommend an LCD. Let me know what your budget is and
    >> what you are looking for (LCD or CRT). Again, dont go cheap! The
    >> monitor is the most important part of the comoputer! Your eyes will
    >> thank you and it makes movies and games much more enjoyable. You can
    >> also use for a new computer down the line (something you cant do with
    >> the other computer parts).
    >> IN america you can get most of this about $1500. BUT IN JAPN IT'S
    >> ABOUT $2000.
    >>
  4. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    Thanks guys. Really seems like a weird time right now - or mabey thats just
    because I am looking into this kind of stuff for the first time!

    "NoNoBadDog!" wrote:

    > Nathan;
    >
    > One thing I would like to offer in addition to the information that you
    > provided;
    > the Intel dual core processors will not run 64 bits natively, but will
    > initially be emulated. This is a very serious consideration. Given the
    > option of a true 64 bit alternative (AMD64), and a product rushed to market
    > to combat loss of market share (Intel), the choice would be obvious to
    > anyone. Farther on down the road, when Intel introduces true 64 bit dual
    > core, then it will be a different story. But for the next few months, it
    > would be best to hold on Intel as a choice for truly high-end performance.
    >
    > Bobby
    >
    > "Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
    > news:uB3bQBWmEHA.1152@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
    > >I am going to reference a couple of articles you may want to read:
    > > http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/64bit.html
    > > http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/doom3-cpu.html
    > >
    > > Here is what I would seriously suggest. Dual Core CPU's will be shipping
    > > shortly. PCI Express IS the wave of the future. Almost all add-on cards
    > > will be made in PCI Express from this point on. If you buy a system now,
    > > at least you can still have SATA300 by purchasing a PCI Express SATA Card.
    > > One downside to the newer boards with PCI Express is the use of DDR2 RAM
    > > as it is expensive, has poor performance, and just isn't mature yet. As
    > > for the fight between AMD and Intel and which chipset to choose, you do
    > > some research on the internet.
    > >
    > > Intel and AMD are scheduled to release dual cored CPU's and Intel's will
    > > have 64bit capabilities. They both are also working on virtualization
    > > techniques. Search Google for AMD Pacifica and Intel Vanderpool.
    > >
    > > Now for gaming, the processor and chipset will have some impact, but the
    > > most crucial peice of hardware is going to be the video card.
    > > Unfortunately, ATI has kind of flopped with their X800 XT. I love ATI
    > > products (own a 9800XT), but if I were to buy a card right now, it would
    > > be a nVidia Geforce 6800 series card. If you choose to wait for the dual
    > > core CPU's to be released, you may find ATI releasing their new VPU built
    > > off a brand new core instead of stretching the limits of their old R3XX
    > > architecture. Have to wait for all the benchmarking and such, but you
    > > will see many hardware review sites and tweaking/overclocking sites
    > > running quite a few tests coming up here in the next couple of months.
    > > There is currently a huge push to release this new technology before
    > > Christmas season (which really starts late November). This is when I
    > > would look into buying your hardware ;)
    > >
    > > ----
    > > Nathan McNulty
    > >
    > > jonnyd wrote:
    > >> I was hoping some of the experts might be able to clarify things for me.
    > >> I am looking to buy a new, powerful system for high-end gaming purposes,
    > >> watching movies, Photoshop, etc. And hopeing to keep the price under
    > >> $1500. I was told that AMD 64 is the best processor with potential now,
    > >> and that PCI-Express is the wave of the future for video cards. However,
    > >> my normal internet shop doesn't carry these together, and I heard that
    > >> its because of a delay in mobo production. Is my info correct? Is this
    > >> system the best i can do? Is it worth waiting for these to come out
    > >> together before purchasing a new system (how long?)? Thx so much!
    > >>
    > >> #an aquaintance gave me the following advice- does it sound on target?#
    > >>
    > >> Building and fixing computers is my hobby so maybe I can give some info.
    > >> Athlon 64 are the best for gaming right now. Pentiums are better for
    > >> video encoding work. You sound like a gamer so I reccomend Athlon 64.
    > >> Here is a link comparing pentiums and Athlon 64s in Doom3.
    > >> http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7 (Pay no
    > >> attention to the Athlon FXs or the Pentium EEs. They are hideously
    > >> expensive and mainly used for servers.) As you can see Athlon 64s
    > >> dominate. There are no PCI-express motherboards for Athlon 64 right now.
    > >> They won't be coming out until after Christmas. Pentiums do have
    > >> PCI-express motherboards and DDR-II, but they are slower than Athlon 64s
    > >> using DDR. DDR-II is faster in terms of how much info it can transfer,
    > >> but DDR is faster in terms of how quickly this info can be shuffled back
    > >> and forth (latency). Basically, there is no advantage to DDR-II right
    > >> now. Athlon 64s have no plan (or need) to use DDR-II until DDR-II gets a
    > >> lot faster (late 2005 or 2006). Also in 2005 dual core CPUs are coming
    > >> out for Pentiums and Athlons. These will probably require new
    > >> motherboards and faster RAM. Ok now the big question: Wait or build now?
    > >> It's easy to get caught in the idea that you need to upgrade down the
    > >> line. On the CPU side, you should only upgrade if the processor is twice
    > >> as fast. As you can see from the CPU comparison chart, that wont happen
    > >> any time soon. So lets not worry about ever upgrading the CPU. It's not
    > >> worth the money and it's just a pain in the but to change it out. Just
    > >> buy a good chip now ($250~) and be down with it. On the graphics side,
    > >> it's a little more complicated. I recommend that you buy the fastest
    > >> graphics card easily available (Geforce 6800 GT w/ 256MB RAM). It will
    > >> cost about $400 dollars and its a good mach for any chip you buy now. You
    > >> can buy a gamer cards for $200 dollars now, but you will probably want to
    > >> upgrade later. S0 that means you will spend another $200 for a new
    > >> graphics card later that would just equal the Geforce 6800 GT you can buy
    > >> now. You dont really save yourself any money not getting the fastest card
    > >> now. Even if you could buy another $400 video card in two years time, the
    > >> rest of your system would slow it down. So again no point in upgrading.
    > >> Until after Xmas AGP graphics cards are the most popular and the easiest
    > >> to find. By spring all graphics cards and motherboards will be moving to
    > >> PCI-express. There will always be graphics cards coming out that support
    > >> AGP, but they might not be the top of the line after spring. PCI-express
    > >> isnt faster than AGP. It has some benefits in terms of how motherboard
    > >> power is used, but other than that there is nothing. You can'T buy
    > >> modems, ethenet cards, TV cards, sound cards or anything else for
    > >> PCI-express yet accept graphics cards. I reccommend building now, and
    > >> dont go cheap. You will have a computer that will last you for a solid
    > >> 3-4 years of gaming, DVD-ripping, and whatever else gets your rocks off.
    > >> Here is my suggestion for a new computer: Athlon 64 (754 pin socket)
    > >> 300+, 3200+ or 3400+ Mother board: DFI LANParty UT nF3-250Gb Review:
    > >> http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2198 RAM: 1 gig DDR (but you
    > >> are fine if you choose 512MB) Graphics card: any Geforce 6800 GT Hard
    > >> drive: Hitachi deskstar (200gb and up) DVD-burner: Pioneer 108 Case and
    > >> power supply: Something good and from a namebrand. Get a GOOD and SILENT
    > >> power supply! It drives me nuts if my computer is noisy. Ethernet, sound
    > >> card, usb, ethernet are all built into the motherboard. I also recommend
    > >> getting a good monitor. I use a 19" LCD. If you can afford it I
    > >> reccommend an LCD. Let me know what your budget is and what you are
    > >> looking for (LCD or CRT). Again, dont go cheap! The monitor is the most
    > >> important part of the comoputer! Your eyes will thank you and it makes
    > >> movies and games much more enjoyable. You can also use for a new computer
    > >> down the line (something you cant do with the other computer parts). IN
    > >> america you can get most of this about $1500. BUT IN JAPN IT'S ABOUT
    > >> $2000.
    > >>
    >
    >
    >
  5. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    Not a weird time, this is about par for the course.

    Joe


    "jonny" <jonny@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:<5B812CAD-E74E-499D-82F1-F2DA12BA45BE@microsoft.com>...
    > Thanks guys. Really seems like a weird time right now - or mabey thats just
    > because I am looking into this kind of stuff for the first time!
    >
    > "NoNoBadDog!" wrote:
    >
    > > Nathan;
    > >
    > > One thing I would like to offer in addition to the information that you
    > > provided;
    > > the Intel dual core processors will not run 64 bits natively, but will
    > > initially be emulated. This is a very serious consideration. Given the
    > > option of a true 64 bit alternative (AMD64), and a product rushed to market
    > > to combat loss of market share (Intel), the choice would be obvious to
    > > anyone. Farther on down the road, when Intel introduces true 64 bit dual
    > > core, then it will be a different story. But for the next few months, it
    > > would be best to hold on Intel as a choice for truly high-end performance.
    > >
    > > Bobby
    > >
    > > "Nathan McNulty" <nospam@msn.com> wrote in message
    > > news:uB3bQBWmEHA.1152@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
    > > >I am going to reference a couple of articles you may want to read:
    > > > http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/64bit.html
    > > > http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/doom3-cpu.html
    > > >
    > > > Here is what I would seriously suggest. Dual Core CPU's will be shipping
    > > > shortly. PCI Express IS the wave of the future. Almost all add-on cards
    > > > will be made in PCI Express from this point on. If you buy a system now,
    > > > at least you can still have SATA300 by purchasing a PCI Express SATA Card.
    > > > One downside to the newer boards with PCI Express is the use of DDR2 RAM
    > > > as it is expensive, has poor performance, and just isn't mature yet. As
    > > > for the fight between AMD and Intel and which chipset to choose, you do
    > > > some research on the internet.
    > > >
    > > > Intel and AMD are scheduled to release dual cored CPU's and Intel's will
    > > > have 64bit capabilities. They both are also working on virtualization
    > > > techniques. Search Google for AMD Pacifica and Intel Vanderpool.
    > > >
    > > > Now for gaming, the processor and chipset will have some impact, but the
    > > > most crucial peice of hardware is going to be the video card.
    > > > Unfortunately, ATI has kind of flopped with their X800 XT. I love ATI
    > > > products (own a 9800XT), but if I were to buy a card right now, it would
    > > > be a nVidia Geforce 6800 series card. If you choose to wait for the dual
    > > > core CPU's to be released, you may find ATI releasing their new VPU built
    > > > off a brand new core instead of stretching the limits of their old R3XX
    > > > architecture. Have to wait for all the benchmarking and such, but you
    > > > will see many hardware review sites and tweaking/overclocking sites
    > > > running quite a few tests coming up here in the next couple of months.
    > > > There is currently a huge push to release this new technology before
    > > > Christmas season (which really starts late November). This is when I
    > > > would look into buying your hardware ;)
    > > >
    > > > ----
    > > > Nathan McNulty
    > > >
    > > > jonnyd wrote:
    > > >> I was hoping some of the experts might be able to clarify things for me.
    > > >> I am looking to buy a new, powerful system for high-end gaming purposes,
    > > >> watching movies, Photoshop, etc. And hopeing to keep the price under
    > > >> $1500. I was told that AMD 64 is the best processor with potential now,
    > > >> and that PCI-Express is the wave of the future for video cards. However,
    > > >> my normal internet shop doesn't carry these together, and I heard that
    > > >> its because of a delay in mobo production. Is my info correct? Is this
    > > >> system the best i can do? Is it worth waiting for these to come out
    > > >> together before purchasing a new system (how long?)? Thx so much!
    > > >>
    > > >> #an aquaintance gave me the following advice- does it sound on target?#
    > > >>
    > > >> Building and fixing computers is my hobby so maybe I can give some info.
    > > >> Athlon 64 are the best for gaming right now. Pentiums are better for
    > > >> video encoding work. You sound like a gamer so I reccomend Athlon 64.
    > > >> Here is a link comparing pentiums and Athlon 64s in Doom3.
    > > >> http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2149&p=7 (Pay no
    > > >> attention to the Athlon FXs or the Pentium EEs. They are hideously
    > > >> expensive and mainly used for servers.) As you can see Athlon 64s
    > > >> dominate. There are no PCI-express motherboards for Athlon 64 right now.
    > > >> They won't be coming out until after Christmas. Pentiums do have
    > > >> PCI-express motherboards and DDR-II, but they are slower than Athlon 64s
    > > >> using DDR. DDR-II is faster in terms of how much info it can transfer,
    > > >> but DDR is faster in terms of how quickly this info can be shuffled back
    > > >> and forth (latency). Basically, there is no advantage to DDR-II right
    > > >> now. Athlon 64s have no plan (or need) to use DDR-II until DDR-II gets a
    > > >> lot faster (late 2005 or 2006). Also in 2005 dual core CPUs are coming
    > > >> out for Pentiums and Athlons. These will probably require new
    > > >> motherboards and faster RAM. Ok now the big question: Wait or build now?
    > > >> It's easy to get caught in the idea that you need to upgrade down the
    > > >> line. On the CPU side, you should only upgrade if the processor is twice
    > > >> as fast. As you can see from the CPU comparison chart, that wont happen
    > > >> any time soon. So lets not worry about ever upgrading the CPU. It's not
    > > >> worth the money and it's just a pain in the but to change it out. Just
    > > >> buy a good chip now ($250~) and be down with it. On the graphics side,
    > > >> it's a little more complicated. I recommend that you buy the fastest
    > > >> graphics card easily available (Geforce 6800 GT w/ 256MB RAM). It will
    > > >> cost about $400 dollars and its a good mach for any chip you buy now. You
    > > >> can buy a gamer cards for $200 dollars now, but you will probably want to
    > > >> upgrade later. S0 that means you will spend another $200 for a new
    > > >> graphics card later that would just equal the Geforce 6800 GT you can buy
    > > >> now. You dont really save yourself any money not getting the fastest card
    > > >> now. Even if you could buy another $400 video card in two years time, the
    > > >> rest of your system would slow it down. So again no point in upgrading.
    > > >> Until after Xmas AGP graphics cards are the most popular and the easiest
    > > >> to find. By spring all graphics cards and motherboards will be moving to
    > > >> PCI-express. There will always be graphics cards coming out that support
    > > >> AGP, but they might not be the top of the line after spring. PCI-express
    > > >> isnt faster than AGP. It has some benefits in terms of how motherboard
    > > >> power is used, but other than that there is nothing. You can'T buy
    > > >> modems, ethenet cards, TV cards, sound cards or anything else for
    > > >> PCI-express yet accept graphics cards. I reccommend building now, and
    > > >> dont go cheap. You will have a computer that will last you for a solid
    > > >> 3-4 years of gaming, DVD-ripping, and whatever else gets your rocks off.
    > > >> Here is my suggestion for a new computer: Athlon 64 (754 pin socket)
    > > >> 300+, 3200+ or 3400+ Mother board: DFI LANParty UT nF3-250Gb Review:
    > > >> http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2198 RAM: 1 gig DDR (but you
    > > >> are fine if you choose 512MB) Graphics card: any Geforce 6800 GT Hard
    > > >> drive: Hitachi deskstar (200gb and up) DVD-burner: Pioneer 108 Case and
    > > >> power supply: Something good and from a namebrand. Get a GOOD and SILENT
    > > >> power supply! It drives me nuts if my computer is noisy. Ethernet, sound
    > > >> card, usb, ethernet are all built into the motherboard. I also recommend
    > > >> getting a good monitor. I use a 19" LCD. If you can afford it I
    > > >> reccommend an LCD. Let me know what your budget is and what you are
    > > >> looking for (LCD or CRT). Again, dont go cheap! The monitor is the most
    > > >> important part of the comoputer! Your eyes will thank you and it makes
    > > >> movies and games much more enjoyable. You can also use for a new computer
    > > >> down the line (something you cant do with the other computer parts). IN
    > > >> america you can get most of this about $1500. BUT IN JAPN IT'S ABOUT
    > > >> $2000.
    > > >>
    > >
    > >
    > >
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