Motherboard (K8N-E Deluxe) & Boot Device

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

I have bought a new SATA drive to replace my old IDE drive.

For making backups I have now put my old IDE drive in one of those removable
caddies and I intend to slot it in occasionally to perform a complete
backup.

The trouble is each time I plug the IDE drive back in, my motherboard
changes so that the IDE drive becomes "Drive 1" and my SATA drive becomes
"Drive 2". Since I have removed the OS from the IDE drive I just get a
"NTLDR Missing" message.

I then have to go back into the BIOS, into the BOOT section and change the
SATA drive back to "Drive 1" and the IDE drive back to "Drive 2" before I
can boot off the SATA drive. This is extremely annoying having to do this
each time I slot my backup drive back in. Is there anything I can do about
it?

TIA

 

[Clark]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

I don't know if this is the problem, but go to admin tools-disk management.
Right click on the partition on the SATA drive and check "Make Partition
Active". You might check the external drive and check the status of it's
partition.

Clark

"elziko" <elziko@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:%5%He.81769$G8.9264@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> I have bought a new SATA drive to replace my old IDE drive.
>
> For making backups I have now put my old IDE drive in one of those
removable
> caddies and I intend to slot it in occasionally to perform a complete
> backup.
>
> The trouble is each time I plug the IDE drive back in, my motherboard
> changes so that the IDE drive becomes "Drive 1" and my SATA drive becomes
> "Drive 2". Since I have removed the OS from the IDE drive I just get a
> "NTLDR Missing" message.
>
> I then have to go back into the BIOS, into the BOOT section and change the
> SATA drive back to "Drive 1" and the IDE drive back to "Drive 2" before I
> can boot off the SATA drive. This is extremely annoying having to do this
> each time I slot my backup drive back in. Is there anything I can do about
> it?
>
> TIA
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 08:19:07 GMT, "elziko" <elziko@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>I have bought a new SATA drive to replace my old IDE drive.
>
>For making backups I have now put my old IDE drive in one of those removable
>caddies and I intend to slot it in occasionally to perform a complete
>backup.
>
>The trouble is each time I plug the IDE drive back in, my motherboard
>changes so that the IDE drive becomes "Drive 1" and my SATA drive becomes
>"Drive 2". Since I have removed the OS from the IDE drive I just get a
>"NTLDR Missing" message.
>
>I then have to go back into the BIOS, into the BOOT section and change the
>SATA drive back to "Drive 1" and the IDE drive back to "Drive 2" before I
>can boot off the SATA drive. This is extremely annoying having to do this
>each time I slot my backup drive back in. Is there anything I can do about
>it?


Another thing to check is to go into the BIOS setup and check the boot
menu with the IDE drive plugged in. Make sure the SATA is listed before
the IDE on the boot device priority and on the Hard Disk Drives menus.



You may also need to play with which set of SATA interfaces you are
plugged into. The pair in the middle of the board is controlled by the
NVidia RAID controller, as are the IDE interfaces. The 4 SATA
interfaces at the bottom of the board are controlled by the Si 3114 RAID
controller.

If both are plugged into the NVidia RAID controller then see if you can
move the SATA drive to the SI controller. The NVidia controller will
present the IDE drives ahead of the SATA drives.

If you you can't move the SATA drive successfully, then go into the
NVidia RAID manager BIOS setup (<F10> on POST) with both drives plugged
in, and make sure the SATA drive is the primary drive.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

> Right click on the partition on the SATA drive and check "Make Partition
> Active"

The OS partition on the SATA drive is flagged as active & there are no
active partitions on the IDE drive.

Still no luck!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

> Another thing to check is to go into the BIOS setup and check the boot
> menu with the IDE drive plugged in. Make sure the SATA is listed before
> the IDE on the boot device priority and on the Hard Disk Drives menus.

This is the problem! I can set this, but it is reset when I insert the IDE
drive.

> If both are plugged into the NVidia RAID controller then see if you can
> move the SATA drive to the SI controller. The NVidia controller will
> present the IDE drives ahead of the SATA drives.

When I go into the BIOS, enable the SI controller (in SATA not RAID, but I
tried RAID too) and then plug the drive in I get as far as showing the NTLDR
and then the machine just resets. Any idea why this may be happening?

> If you you can't move the SATA drive successfully, then go into the
> NVidia RAID manager BIOS setup (<F10> on POST) with both drives plugged
> in, and make sure the SATA drive is the primary drive.

Is the NVidia controller a RAID controller? I see so mention of <F10> during
post. I have tried pressing it many times any way but the computer just
boots as normal. There is some mention of <F8> whilst entering the BIOS
after prssing <Del> but that seems to do nothing much, I just end up in the
BIOS.

Any other ideas would be really appreciated. Thanks very much for posting!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 18:00:05 GMT, "elziko" <elziko@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>> Another thing to check is to go into the BIOS setup and check the boot
>> menu with the IDE drive plugged in. Make sure the SATA is listed before
>> the IDE on the boot device priority and on the Hard Disk Drives menus.
>
>This is the problem! I can set this, but it is reset when I insert the IDE
>drive.
>
>> If both are plugged into the NVidia RAID controller then see if you can
>> move the SATA drive to the SI controller. The NVidia controller will
>> present the IDE drives ahead of the SATA drives.
>
>When I go into the BIOS, enable the SI controller (in SATA not RAID, but I
>tried RAID too) and then plug the drive in I get as far as showing the NTLDR
>and then the machine just resets. Any idea why this may be happening?
>
>> If you you can't move the SATA drive successfully, then go into the
>> NVidia RAID manager BIOS setup (<F10> on POST) with both drives plugged
>> in, and make sure the SATA drive is the primary drive.
>
>Is the NVidia controller a RAID controller? I see so mention of <F10> during
>post. I have tried pressing it many times any way but the computer just
>boots as normal. There is some mention of <F8> whilst entering the BIOS
>after prssing <Del> but that seems to do nothing much, I just end up in the
>BIOS.

Yes, the NVidia controller and the SIL 3114 are both RAID controllers.
I have a SATA and an IDE drive hooked up to the NVidia controller. One
boots 32-bit Windows and one boots 64-bit windows. The NVidia
controller is set as the primary boot device in the BIOS. When I want
to boot the 'other' version of Windows, I need to break into the NVidia
BIOS and change the boot order there, not in the main BIOS.

I got the <F10> from the documentation. I will reboot the system
tonight and verify the keystroke(s) to get there.

>Any other ideas would be really appreciated. Thanks very much for posting!

I will try some things out on my system, but it may take a few days.
You may need to format the IDE drive somehow, if it has the Windows
signature and drive letter from when it was a bootable drive, it may be
a problem.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

OK.
In the BIOS (<DEL> at POST), under CHIPSET
Under ONBOARD DEVICE
- Silicon Image Mode can be DISABLE/SATA/RAID - Mine is RAID
- Internal SATA IDE Interface - ENABLED
- RAID OPTION ROM - ENABLED
- PRIMARY MASTER AS RAID - ENABLED
- PRIMARY SLASE AS RAID - ENABLED
- so on and so forth for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th

Under BOOT
- BOOT DEVICE Priority is basically floppy/CDROM/HARD DISK
the hard DISK is pickect with
- HARD DISK DRIVES - the 1t one is the hard drive that will be booted
- CDROMS - selects the CD/DVD used in Boot Device Priority.

So, faulty memory on my part, when I want to change the boot order I go
into the main BIOS and under BOOT change the HARD DISK DRIVES selection.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

> So, faulty memory on my part, when I want to change the boot order I go
> into the main BIOS and under BOOT change the HARD DISK DRIVES selection.

Again, it is this selection that is reset each time I insert my IDE drive.

I have just realised that the SI controller had no drivers installed in
Windows (oops!) which explains why as soon as windows tried to start up, it
just died.

I have now installed the drivers but since I'm at work on Remote Desktop,
I'll have to wait until tonight to physically switch the drive back on to
the SI Controller. Hopefully when I do it'll work and the BIOS won't move
the SATA drive from position number 1 in 'Hard Disk Drives' when I insert
the IDE drive.

I'll let you know!

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 08:56:07 GMT, "elziko" <elziko@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>> So, faulty memory on my part, when I want to change the boot order I go
>> into the main BIOS and under BOOT change the HARD DISK DRIVES selection.
>
>Again, it is this selection that is reset each time I insert my IDE drive.
>

I know, but the reordering of the drives occurs because of the search
sequence. Changing the BIOS settings may change the ordering. When I
had a SCSI controller on my system, the ordering of the drives was
affected by the SCSI LUN number. You may need to play with which IDE
interface the drive is plugged into and whether it is a master or slave.
It might help, if you have a CD/DVD installed on one of the IDE
interfaces to make the plug-in drive the slave on the same cable.



Also, hard drive ordering can sometimes be forced by writing a signature
and assigning a drive letter to the drive. Actually, this is probably
the most important thing to check - if the IDE drive still has a drive
letter assigned (say C and recognized by the OS, that can be the
problem.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 14:33:32 GMT, Robert Klute
<robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> wrote:

>Also, hard drive ordering can sometimes be forced by writing a signature
>and assigning a drive letter to the drive. Actually, this is probably
>the most important thing to check - if the IDE drive still has a drive
>letter assigned (say C and recognized by the OS, that can be the
>problem.

This sounds like an OS problem, rather than a MB/BIOS problem.

I'd ask the question over in comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, where
there are lots of knowledgable people about these issues (and a few
trolls and jerks, as well).


--
Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

> I know, but the reordering of the drives occurs because of the search
> sequence. Changing the BIOS settings may change the ordering. When I
> had a SCSI controller on my system, the ordering of the drives was
> affected by the SCSI LUN number. You may need to play with which IDE
> interface the drive is plugged into and whether it is a master or slave.
> It might help, if you have a CD/DVD installed on one of the IDE
> interfaces to make the plug-in drive the slave on the same cable.

Sorry but are you saying that changing the IDE channel that the IDE drive is
plugged into may change the drive order? I assumed that the BIOS would set
*any* IDE drive plugged in ahead of *all* SATA drives on the nVidia
controller.

> Also, hard drive ordering can sometimes be forced by writing a signature
> and assigning a drive letter to the drive. Actually, this is probably
> the most important thing to check - if the IDE drive still has a drive
> letter assigned (say C and recognized by the OS, that can be the
> problem.

Well, when I first booted up from the SATA drive, I used the Windows Disk
Manager to delete all the partitions and then recreate one signle partition
on the IDE drive. I then used Disk Manager to set the drive letter (FYI to
'Z'). Is this what you mean, can you give more information on how to find
out what this 'signature' on the drive actually says about the drive. Is the
signature a Windows thing, or something at a lower level in the boot sector?
I'm not to sure about this bit!

Again, thanks for your interest.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

> This sounds like an OS problem, rather than a MB/BIOS problem.

I can check in the BIOS and the 'Hard Disk Drive' order is switched before
any OS even attempts to boot. I'm 99% convinced that its a BIOS problem. If
the comments about the drive 'signature' do not apply in any way to the BIOS
then I think that may be a red hearring. Thanks for your post.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

> You may need to play with which IDE
> interface the drive is plugged into and whether it is a master or slave.

I have tried a different channel, as a slave and plugged in with a DVD-RW
drive, no luck.

> Also, hard drive ordering can sometimes be forced by writing a signature
> and assigning a drive letter to the drive. Actually, this is probably
> the most important thing to check - if the IDE drive still has a drive
> letter assigned (say C and recognized by the OS, that can be the
> problem.

You may be able to advise me further, but since I can confirm whether or not
this problem is going to happen in the BIOS before Windows has even began to
boot (from the order in 'Hard Disk Drives' in the Boot section of the BIOS)
then your suggestion may not be relevant. This is a question more than a
statement!

I have also successfully got the drive to boot from SATA1 on the SI
controller, no luck. I also tried it on SATA3 just in case that made any
difference.

I think I have tried pretty much every avenue, this must be a bug (or if its
'by design' then bad design).

Is it worth me reporting it to ASUS? I hear they don't listen or reply to
anyone's e-mails. What's the best way of trying to get them to address it in
a BIOS update?

Thanks and if there are any other ideas I'd be very willing to try them!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 15:29:59 GMT, "elziko" <elziko@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>> I know, but the reordering of the drives occurs because of the search
>> sequence. Changing the BIOS settings may change the ordering. When I
>> had a SCSI controller on my system, the ordering of the drives was
>> affected by the SCSI LUN number. You may need to play with which IDE
>> interface the drive is plugged into and whether it is a master or slave.
>> It might help, if you have a CD/DVD installed on one of the IDE
>> interfaces to make the plug-in drive the slave on the same cable.
>
>Sorry but are you saying that changing the IDE channel that the IDE drive is
>plugged into may change the drive order? I assumed that the BIOS would set
>*any* IDE drive plugged in ahead of *all* SATA drives on the nVidia
>controller.

Your assumption is probably correct. This is a desperate measure more
than anything else. If you have an existing CD/DVD drive as a master on
the IDE controller, it is 'possible' that when you plug in the IDE hard
drive it will show up after the CD/DVD drive.


>> Also, hard drive ordering can sometimes be forced by writing a signature
>> and assigning a drive letter to the drive. Actually, this is probably
>> the most important thing to check - if the IDE drive still has a drive
>> letter assigned (say C and recognized by the OS, that can be the
>> problem.
>
>Well, when I first booted up from the SATA drive, I used the Windows Disk
>Manager to delete all the partitions and then recreate one signle partition
>on the IDE drive. I then used Disk Manager to set the drive letter (FYI to
>'Z'). Is this what you mean, can you give more information on how to find
>out what this 'signature' on the drive actually says about the drive. Is the
>signature a Windows thing, or something at a lower level in the boot sector?
>I'm not to sure about this bit!

No, you did right. creating the partition and assigning the drive
letter is exactly what you want to do. With NTFS drives there is a
'signature' that is written to the drive that Windows keeps track of.
When you plug a drive that was formated on another system into your
system, Windows will recognize that it is formated and that it didn't
format it. You then will have the option of 'importing' the drive.


>
>Again, thanks for your interest.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 16:53:12 GMT, "elziko" <elziko@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>> This sounds like an OS problem, rather than a MB/BIOS problem.
>
>I can check in the BIOS and the 'Hard Disk Drive' order is switched before
>any OS even attempts to boot. I'm 99% convinced that its a BIOS problem. If
>the comments about the drive 'signature' do not apply in any way to the BIOS
>then I think that may be a red hearring. Thanks for your post.

The drive 'signature' is a Windows thing, not a BIOS thing. The
changing of the 'Hard Disk Drive' order is a BIOS thing.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 17:52:43 GMT, "elziko" <elziko@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>> You may need to play with which IDE
>> interface the drive is plugged into and whether it is a master or slave.
>
>I have tried a different channel, as a slave and plugged in with a DVD-RW
>drive, no luck.
>
>> Also, hard drive ordering can sometimes be forced by writing a signature
>> and assigning a drive letter to the drive. Actually, this is probably
>> the most important thing to check - if the IDE drive still has a drive
>> letter assigned (say C and recognized by the OS, that can be the
>> problem.
>
>You may be able to advise me further, but since I can confirm whether or not
>this problem is going to happen in the BIOS before Windows has even began to
>boot (from the order in 'Hard Disk Drives' in the Boot section of the BIOS)
>then your suggestion may not be relevant. This is a question more than a
>statement!

>I have also successfully got the drive to boot from SATA1 on the SI
>controller, no luck. I also tried it on SATA3 just in case that made any
>difference.
>
>I think I have tried pretty much every avenue, this must be a bug (or if its
>'by design' then bad design).
>
>Is it worth me reporting it to ASUS? I hear they don't listen or reply to
>anyone's e-mails. What's the best way of trying to get them to address it in
>a BIOS update?
>
>Thanks and if there are any other ideas I'd be very willing to try them!

The BIOS should not change your boot order. Yes, this may be a question
you need to post to ASUS support to find out why it is happening and if
there is a way of setting the BIOS to prevent it. They will probably
want you to be at the latest rev of the BIOS, so it is usually best to
upgrade to that before you log a call.

You will need to go to the web site and register:
http://support.asus.com/default.aspx?SLanguage=en-us

You can try posting you problem with the list of things you have tried
to the forum there, also.

The latest BIOS is 1010. The latest beta is 1010.003

http://dlsvr03.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/sock754/K8N-E_DX/K8ne1010.zip

If you are running prior to 1006, definitely upgrade. 1006 included a
patch for nVIDIA hard drive detection.

The latest SI3114 Serial ATA driver on the ASUS site is 1.0.0.7
http://dlsvr03.asus.com/pub/ASUS/misc/ide/silicon/3114/SiI3114_SATA_1007.zip

For SI3114 IDE+Raid it is 1.0.0.2/1.0.0.7
http://dlsvr03.asus.com/pub/ASUS/misc/ide/silicon/3114/SiI3114_RAID_1002.zip

For the nVIDIA driver it is 4.3.1
http://dlsvr03.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/sock754/K8N-E/K8N-E_Win2KXP_431.zip




The latest for the SI3114 from the Silicon Image web site:
BIOS 5.2.16:
http://www.siimage.com/docs/3114_x86_bios_5216.zip
Raid 1.2.3.1:
http://www.siimage.com/docs/3114_x86_win32_raid_1233b.zip
IDE 1.2.0.5:
http://www.siimage.com/docs/3114_x86_win32_base_logo_1205.zip
DiskTools 1.2.3.3
http://www.siimage.com/docs/3114_x86_win32_SATARAID5_1233.exe

(There are Win64 bit versions also, it you need them).

The latest version of the nVIDIA driver is 5.10 at:
http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/nForce/5.10/nForce_5.10_WinXP2K_WHQL_english.exe

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

After a brief discussion with ASUS support I was given this answer:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Thank you for contacting ASUS Customer Service.

My name is ZYC, and I would be assisting you today.

yes,i think that can be fixed by newer bios ,

which allow users lock the first boot device .

but now ,use the F8 ."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So it CAN be fixed but I imagine wether it'll be fixed depends on how many
people care if it gets fixed or not. If enough people contact support
quoting the above text from ZYC we may actually get somewhere. Give it a go!