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Doom3 Piracy - intollerable!

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August 3, 2004 4:58:36 PM

Aproximately 36 hours ago Doom3 Full retail release version was leaked to the internet, after hearing several oppinions on how this will affect the release of the game, I have come to the conclusion that who ever leaked the game before it even shiped for retail sales may have just permanently crippled one of the most loved, and important gaming companies in all of gaming history.

ID hasnt even sold one dime worth of product yet and already 50,000 full release versions have already been downloaded thats 2.5 million dollars worth incase you were wondering.
Consequentially ID Software has lost the potential sales of 2.5 million just because some lame prick couldnt stand someone making money off of a game, or because they dont want to pay for it, which by the way ID deserves to make money off of because they worked their asses off making a game that they love, not because it makes them money, sure money is nice, but because they love making, and PLAYING the game and want others to enjoy their games.

Trying to convince a teenager just exactly how wrong this is, well its impossible, because they have no concept of the value of money and more importantly honesty, now obviously we cant group all teenagers into this catagory, however, it is very probable the landslide of downloads in the last 36 hours are mostly by teenagers, most adults can afford to, and do actually go out and buy the game, so you can pretty much say its 95% teenagers doing the downloading.

Kids i hate to tell you this, but you are unwittingly hurting one of the best gaming companies there ever was, and ever will be, so stop downloading Doom3 and go buy the game.

Normally i wouldnt even say anything but were talking about ID, and if you dont give a damn about anything you better care about ID, because if they go down we lose one of our most valuable gaming resources, then what are we going to do, twittle our thumbs, pretty much cuz a hell of alot of games are built on ID software graphics engines and without ID alot of the games we love wouldnt even exsist, or would exsist in an extremely diminished capcity.

yes ID software has had that big of an impact on the gaming industry, every game engine made since 1994 is just a modified version of the doom gaming engine, with someone elses name on it. if you dont think so you are fooling yourself.

So lets support the god of gaming and buy their game, Doom3 in apreciation and respect of the father of modern gaming, ID software.

Oh and incase your wondering i dont own one single piece of pirated software, so im not on my high horse. Am i taking a risk of being ridiculed for taking such a strong position on this subject, absolutely, but if you dont stand for anything you will fall for everything, and you will be a worthless, spineless wonder. Maybe you can live with being one but i cant. If you are saying to yourself, how dare he judge me he doesnt know me, well then you obviously use pirated software, and your damn right i am judging you, and you deserve to be judged, personally i hope you get caught, and prosecuted, and put in a fedral prison, and have cellmate named bubba that likes boys.

I dare anyone to say im wrong about pirating, that its perfectly right to download for free what someone else has put their own money into and worked so hard to make and deserves profit from, knowing this game is not freeware.

Thanks for reading, and thanks to those of you supporting ID Software.

More about : doom3 piracy intollerable

August 3, 2004 8:39:43 PM

They made money of the pre-orders.
August 3, 2004 11:45:39 PM

The video game companies one day plan to make it so you can only pre-order the game to order the game.. with absolutely minimal retail copies out.

I hate pre-ordering due to deadlines never meeting their targets. This is just a way for certain people to vent their anger. Although i will be purchasing a copy of doom3 only for the sake of the people that worked so hard on it..
i encourage more people to download it for the sake of an almost anti world feel ^^ .

yea, Anarchy. Sweet.

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46,510 , movin on up. 48k new goal. Maybe not.. :/ 
August 4, 2004 5:01:31 AM

Consider this download the demo of the game. I wouldn't drop the $59.99 they are asking for this game without knowing that it's worth it.

</font color=red><i><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS </font color=blue><font color=red>AMERICA
August 4, 2004 6:31:33 AM

What makes you think they lost all of that money. Some people will not pay for a game no matter what. Sure they may have lost a fraction of that 2.5 number, but there are a lot of people who will download, just because they can.

This is nothing new, they will always be people who will want something for free. No matter what measures are taken to stop it from being copied, people will find a way.


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August 4, 2004 7:15:31 AM

Stop making BS numbers like 2.5 million. If there were no way to download, then very few of these 50000 downloaders would buy a legit copy.

And I'm 99.999999999999999999999999..........(infinate)% sure that ID soft isn't going to die because of this and they will make good ammount of money only from Doom3. In future, they will make total profit by selling Doom3 game engine.

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August 4, 2004 1:54:43 PM

Quote:
Stop making BS numbers like 2.5 million. If there were no way to download, then very few of these 50000 downloaders would buy a legit copy.

$50.00 multiplied by 50,000 equals 2.5 million, so its not a BS number, it may not be an acurate projection but its not a bs number heh.

I agree with you, and so does the industry, thats why you can try it before you buy it in the form of a Demo, but not a FULL complete retail release version like everyone is downloading, if they have the full version of the game what makes you think they are ever going to buy the game, what reason do they have to buy it? I will tell you...NONE
August 4, 2004 2:09:39 PM

It only means that they can only drive a Volkswagon or a Kia instead of a Porsche or Ferarri.

Scrambled eggs for breakfast instead of Surf and Turf.

I bought my copy. Hopefully that will help them buy some salt for thier eggs.


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August 4, 2004 2:18:31 PM

Quote:
suck my ass mofo!

You have kicked Phial out of #TomsHardware saying "Gay Kick!"

HAHAHA
August 4, 2004 2:19:46 PM

Games r to expensive now a days anyway. Honestly I think most ppl can only afford 1 new game a month (if that). Also I go to the store and I see 1 year old games or 6 month old games for the same price (or 5 bucks cheaper then when they came out). A good game like DOOM3 will not go down in price for a long time. And why the hell is there no DVD version... unless there is a dvd version.
August 4, 2004 2:20:07 PM

[11:03] * XeeN was kicked by XeeN (gay kick)
[11:03] <phial> LOL
[11:03] <Flinx> if ur a pirate ur a pirate
[11:03] * XeeN has joined #Tomshardware
[11:03] * ChanServ sets mode: +a XeeN
[11:03] * ChanServ sets mode: +o XeeN



yea well you got yourself too :D 


damn i wish i had kicking powers on you, stupid founder status

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August 4, 2004 5:03:07 PM

Riddle me this batman, if piracy is terrible and hurts industry....they why have record sales GONE UP every year in the past 3 yrs? And thats durring a HUGE downturn in the economy.
you are right, if i were to take that off the internet i would be stealing and i would be taking money from a faceless corp. and i would be the devil.

But here are questions i ask you in rebuttle of your stance.

Was this game on time? they promise one date for production and end up on another. Like almost all games/movies/albums i would be suprised if it made its deadline.

Of the $50+ for each game sold, what do you think they actually make in profit per game sold? To say that stealing a game WORTH $50 is stealing $50 from them is insane. The marketplace determines price.

3rdly and lastly...what is the magic number? Everything makes money back by a certin number of items sold. Meaning...if the company sells 1 million copies, or whatever the number may be, it will be no longer in the red from the game. It will be neutral. And everything beyond the magic number is pure profit. I will make a deal with you....if Doom3 doesn't reach its magic number, i will give you $100, and if they do...you owe me a $100. Its amazing to me that games that are well beyond the magic number are still priced so high.

I have not stolen this game, or any other game. I do not steal software, music, movies, or anything. But i REFUSE to allow 'kids' to take the blame for something that a lot of people using the internet do.

When you want to give a big buisness speach and how much they have done for everyone....ask yourself this first, why is something that takes 2million dollars to make, allow the company to rake in 50million dollars?
Dont be 'that guy'. The one who says VHS will kill movie rentals, the one who says the MP3 will kill music sales, or the one who says that piracy of software will kill the companies.
All 3 of those industries are at or beyond market highs in production and profits.
August 4, 2004 5:15:20 PM

heya pickxx;

Im impressed you actually delivered a thought out comprehensive rebuttle, unlike the majority here.

However, any excuse to justify pirating the software instead of buying it, is just that, an excuse to justify stealing, nothing more, while i respect your oppinion, i dont believe it to be right.
August 4, 2004 5:37:05 PM

Yes, its true...i make excuses for people to steal from companies. but at the same time, they make excuses for charging 50, 60, 75 for a game.
Both sides are dishonest and looking out for #1.

When you look down on someone for something that like insinuating you are better then them. That comes across as arrogent and conceited. You do things, i assume, that are less then upstanding sometimes and we all have our faults.
To put someone stealing D3 on par with someone who runs in the store, puts it in their jacket and walks out....that would be closer.

but one more question, if i pre-ordered my game, and i get it online just to play it 30days sooner. Is that stealing? I've payed, the comapny has my money and i am playing a game that i have purchased.
So of the people who have DL'd it some might be like that, or will purchase the game when the cost gets more reasonable....therefor the company gets its profits all the same but the end user gets to play until the game hits the price they can afford.

But like you said, these are only excuses. I dont think its a big deal and i have yet to be presented with a company that has gone Chapter 11 because of piracy. Yes it sucks, yes it is stealing, yes people shouldn't do it.
I am just here to play devils advocate and provide a larger POV to you and others.
August 4, 2004 5:39:34 PM

I was at a computer store yesterday and I saw Diablo for $20 CND. That is insane for a game that old. This is how those fat cats make money long after they care about the game. Another trick to watch out for is this. I was walking by and saw Diablo for ~$65 then a sticker below it that says special only $20. What a joke and the sad thing is some poor kid is going to buy this game and be dissapointed.
Piracy dosn't hurt anyone. I buy just as many games as I did before I could dowload pirated versions. Also with the inclusion of very good multiplayer in games you will have to buy it in order to play multi (or get a new key every week). Also with the size of games going up an up it is only a matter of time before they become to large to download in a resonable amout of time. Booyah.
August 4, 2004 5:48:14 PM

Piracy hurts many different people, SLIGHTLY, on many levels. Its not a HUGE impact as some would have you believe but it is still there non the less.
I agree Multiplayer games are insane because for any of my friends to get into the games i like would cost them hundreds of dollars and they may not like it. I agree that Multiplayer games are better with stolen copies so someone who would never play Age of Empires, would get into and might ultimately lead them to buy some later aditions....and if they dont. no harm done because they weren't going to buy it anyway.

one last thing....games will NEVER be too big to DL. EVER. for people with 56k, they are already out of reach. But with Cable, DSL, and ESPECIALLY college ethernet. With speeds on college campuses as high as 500k or even a mind blowing 1500-2000k (if you know the right time of day to get on and what computer lab has unrestricted bandwidth) its easy.

btw, 20CND....thats like a buck fifty for me in the US? right?
August 4, 2004 7:35:41 PM

a buck seventy-five thank you very much
August 5, 2004 9:34:30 AM

Good words there... I shall never use pirated software again........

actually bollox....

Firstly I buy the games I beleive are worth buying and I get copies of games I don't, that way I'm not hurting the industry mainly cos the games I have copies of I wouldnt ever have bought in the first place. Maybe the 50,000 ppl who downloaded D3 are pure strategy fans who just thought they would see what the fuss is about?

So moving on to yur guesstimate of 2.5 million.... sounds like a lot of money... I wonder in the long run how much money ID stands to get from D3 from game sales and engine leasing???? I have a feeling 2.5mil will end up being small change even if you finally expand that number for increased piracy.

Finally piracy has been in existance for a loong loong time and has been around since I got a c64 back as a kid. Since my youth I've seen gaming on both console and pc expand constantly to being a massive industry and while I can't remember where I seen this but I believe game/console sales exceeds both music sales (and some other sector) combined. So is piracy hurting the industry? From my view you would have to say not much by the looks of things.

Next why are you complaining? It's a bit like complaining about world poverty, its not going to go away and exists in every market in the world A: where one person can rip off anothers idea for gain or B: where they can do it just for the sake of it cos not everyone is rich enough to spend money on a game/just because they can/don't believe in capitalism/ [insert stupid reason here].

I meant this post to be short and sweet but I'm in work and started rambling.

Fact: ID will not be hurt much by this and in fact a smart company IMO will have piracy considered in their business plan. So stop whining about something which you can't change and move to Sudan to help feed the starving, you sound like a moral person find something proper to be morally outraged about.

"Its only when you look at ants closely with a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames"
August 5, 2004 2:17:59 PM

Quote:

....ask yourself this first, why is something that takes 2million dollars to make, allow the company to rake in 50million dollars?

It's called free enterprise (capitalism). Noone forces you to buy the game, but if you want to play it, you have to pay. Just wait for the demo if you are afraid that it will not be worth your money.

In general I do not agree that games are too expensive, if you compare the amount of pleasure and relaxation time, with movies and books, amusement parks, theaters (plays), spectating sports, etc, then games are not too expensive (unless you consider all prices asked for all these categories as being too expensive, in that case, get a better paycheck). I would say that books still have the best entertainment value for the buck although I realize that this is a subjective opinion. I try to objectivate this by comparing the costs of the product with the amount of hours spent having a good time. This only helps some in case you like all these things just as much. If you prefer amusements parks over books at all times then such a comparison becomes irrelevant.

However what I am disappointed with is that the software game industry does not experiment more with alternative distribution channels. Quite a substantial part of the dollars you pay for a game, go to the shops, distribution centers, and publisher, whereas you might easily provide the game via broadband only, thus saving a lot of money in terms of distributing the game. None of the developers has the balls to try anything like that (probably scared of the repercussions of publisers or the like) and more disappointing to me, not one publisher is looking into this so it seems.

With a distribution channel that befits the 21st century I am sure the price of a game could be lowered significantly while still keeping even more revenues to the publisher and developer. Moreover it would certainly mean a lot less production of papers, tin cans or whatever is used to package games and the customer has choices whether to back up the game on CDs or a DVD or even not doing that, if he has another safe way of retaining data.

Quote:

Dont be 'that guy'. The one who says VHS will kill movie rentals, the one who says the MP3 will kill music sales, or the one who says that piracy of software will kill the companies.
All 3 of those industries are at or beyond market highs in production and profits.

This statement is false, the music industry is definitely not at its market high at the moment. That industry is really feeling the pain of piracy and so they should because their product innovation completely sucks. If you find you cannot stop piracy of your current products, you will have to come up with new products that are safe. Additionally the music industry is trying to recover lost revenue by increasing prices, a policy that is sure to fail. Of all the categories I mentioned earlier I think most people tend to think that music is really overpriced. (If you use my comparison measure of duration of time then music should not score too bad, which proves that my measure is rather off in terms of measuring customer satisfaction).



BigMac

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August 5, 2004 4:54:33 PM

If any of you that did rip the gam of the internet, at least if you like it to PLEASE support thier work by purchasing the LEGIT copy. It will defiantely make a good collector's item of purchaing the first game using the D3 engine.

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August 5, 2004 6:25:00 PM

I sorta agree about the piracy...but if ID makes a good SN scheme then it will take a little while for people to make cracks etc. A couple of days before the release doesn't give hackers much time to make any type of hack.

Another thing, saying that they will make enough money to make up for their loss isn't all right you know. They worked hard on this, it's their product, they can do what they want. If you put money into the company to have this game out a month ago then yeah, get mad. If you are angry with them then boycott ID (good luck).

On another point, the full vers trial is a nice idea...for the honest...I do it now and then and only because i f*ckin hate havin some cdr with sharpy written on it "DOOM 3" or"Far Cry". Just a lil issue i have, i feel better with the retail copy. Even getting FarCry OEM didn't complete me lol.

About Diablo II...I am sorry but $20 is a good price for a game that is STILL widely played. If a game is as good as it then it has a reason to be priced like that. Anyway its better than paying what you would have when it came out...If a kid buys that game I wouldn't feel sorry for him, for single player is still entertaining and multiplayer has thousands of people playing daily. Blizzard even has prizes for their top players on the ladder.

Anyway...IMO I think ID will do fine. In the end someones gonna get rich off this game and there is nothing anyone can do about it. You can try to change someone's views and everything but chances are that they wont, 'specially teens.

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August 5, 2004 8:15:58 PM

I've been know to download software that's for sure. And I'm glad I have. For every 10 programs I dowload I quickly realize 9 of them suck and they never get installed again. Sometimes if I get a file that requires one of these crap programs it will get installed. Not worth paying for that's for sure. And I'll then buy the few pieces of software I actually use on a regular basis.

When it comes to games I guess I think we should pay for them. Games, like top of the line hardware is crazily expensive at first but if you wait a few months it usually comes down in price or you can buy it off eBay. $55 is too much for a video game that's for sure and I won't pay that. When it comes down to $40 and has good reviews I'll probably buy it.

It's like music. I've bought maybe 5 cds in my ENTIRE life and usually just listen to the radio. That's all I really care about it. But when I was able to download MP3s off the internet I have a collection of 3,000 of em and listen occasionally when I'm working. Now, the music industry isn't loosing a penny from me as I know I would never buy a CD anyway. And they're nuts if they think I'm gonna spend $1 per song. A quarter sure.

So that's my take on piracy. I do however think people who get that pirated software and then resell it for profit should be burned at the stake. That's truly robbery of intellectual property.

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August 6, 2004 1:31:01 PM

Music is another thing also...if you think about the actual artist, they get nominal amounts of money from CD's. They get the most fo their money from advertising, concerts, and other events where their talent is wanted...You can consider their CD's a way to get you into their stuff to go buy other things that make them richer.

The other point...you download something and use it but if you weren't able to download it for free then you wouldn't buy it anyway. Thats a tough situation. In a perfect world I guess that would be ok, but if that was legal then everyone would use that excuse...

Back to Doom 3, 55 dollars is not that much money. Considering how much effort it was to make this game and ALSO considering mods will be made from this, which is like free games on this new engine, it is alot better than paying $50 for a new console game where nothing can be modded, IMO.

AMD Athlon 64 3000+
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80 GB Hitachi SATA<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by KrayzeeMunkee on 08/06/04 09:33 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 7, 2004 7:02:51 PM

They will sell at least 10 million copies of this game. I agree though, really stupid to put it on the net. Somebody needs an ass-kicking!

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Anonymous
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August 9, 2004 4:03:53 PM

In my experience of downloading games, it seems that the large majority of the games that leak onto P2P networks like eDonkey are from Europeans (N.Europe and German). Browsing through the ISO filenames, I can see that more than half of them are labled for a foreign language. Ones that do have the important letters "ENG" in the file name are usually secondary language packs for European versions of the games. The hassle of wading through install screens and help files in German has honestly slowed down my attempts to get free games. I'm not sure what my point is, I guess i'm saying that as long as there are German teens living in basements, there will be pirated games.

"Klicken Sie hier, zu laden Doom 3! Achtung!"

<font color=blue> When in doubt, rock the fu*k out </font color=blue>
August 9, 2004 4:59:27 PM

hahahahaha, thats hilarious, i never would have thought about that. I guess I can see american teens being lazy and looking for the games instead of actually putting them up for others...thats real interesting though

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August 10, 2004 6:51:00 AM

Right...

Napster was very much a US homegrown product but I guess you consider Napster also to be a german conspiracy, as it's been taken over by Bertelsmann.



BigMac

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August 10, 2004 12:28:07 PM

Latest CPU Magazine has a short clip on pirated software. It's estimated worldwide, over 1/3 of all installed software is pirated.

By nation, the USA has the lowest rate of 22%, New Zealand 23%, and Denmark 26%. Western Europe was 36%, while Eastern Europe was a whopping 71%. In Vietnam, China, and the Ukraine, they said less than 10% of installed programs are legitimate versions!

Anyway, if a demo is available I'll download that and try it first, but otherwise I buy what I use. So for me no Doom 3 until a demo comes out. I am sure looking forward to seeing the engine though.



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August 10, 2004 12:40:00 PM

ya see over here in europe particularly here in Ireland we prefer to spend our money on alcohol than buggy software and games claiming to be the next best thing when after u buy them u find they arent :) 



"Its only when you look at ants closely with a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames"
August 10, 2004 3:48:08 PM

As a resident of this fair green crappy isle, I second that.

:eek:  I'm the good time that was had by all :eek: 
August 10, 2004 4:13:03 PM

hey wingding where in ireland are ya based?

"Its only when you look at ants closely with a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames"
August 10, 2004 4:36:35 PM

Doom3 deserved to be pirated since there was no demo.
August 10, 2004 8:06:40 PM

South Dublin. The posh part [/arrogant bastard]

:eek:  I'm the good time that was had by all :eek: 
August 10, 2004 9:52:48 PM

if you don't want to buy crappy games, get a subscription to PC Gamer, or if you dont want to spend the money, just go read a PC gamer at any place that has magazines :p 

Piracy is lame. period. Get some self respect and learn to be something more than a slacker leeching off of other people.

btw: i used to download everything than changed my ways

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by nereus7 on 08/10/04 05:56 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 10, 2004 10:21:36 PM

LOL, enjoy


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August 10, 2004 11:34:15 PM

Er, I never mentioned anything about piracy. Make sure you reply to the right person before you start your pendatic lecturing. Chode.

:eek:  I'm the good time that was had by all :eek: 
August 11, 2004 3:23:36 AM

I'd like to add something. First, I bought doom3. I really like ID software and have bought just about everything they have made. Piracy made ID what they are today.

Years ago when I didn't have money some friends gave me a copy of wolfenstein 3d. I played the hell out of that game. I didn't pay a nickel for it and I had the registered version. Later in life, I bought the game on cd. CD Rom were expensive back then.

Doom came out and me and friend split the cost of it and made copies of it for one another. Later, I actually bought it. I still play that game every once in awhile.

The fact is sharing the game with a few friends can actually be good for the industry. A company like id can really make a name for themselves, and later when these kids are adults and have money, they will buy the games like I have. I'm 40 years old and still addicted.

Releasing the game to the internet is not cool. If this continues, game companies like ID will feel the pain & they might resort to the tactics done by Microsoft. I hate Microsoft.

Software and music are also two different animals. The record companies are getting what they just deserve. They ripped off the consumer. Got busted for price fixing. Didn't give the consumer a product they wanted. The artists aren't losing anything. All they have to do is go up a few bucks on their concert tickets.

What I'm trying to say is sharing with a couple of friends is probably not bad, but giving 50,000 copies away is bad. Making money off copies and giving 50000 copies away is just ridiculous and you should be locked away.
August 11, 2004 7:53:54 AM

Quote:

By nation, the USA has the lowest rate of 22%, New Zealand 23%, and Denmark 26%. Western Europe was 36%, while Eastern Europe was a whopping 71%. In Vietnam, China, and the Ukraine, they said less than 10% of installed programs are legitimate versions!

Interesting statistic. If you have a link that would be appreciated.

If you look a bit more closely to these figures you can discern an interesting trent. It looks like there is a correlation with the cost of living associated to each region (a general statement of course, there will be exceptions).

USA region has the highest standard of living, meaning basically that the cost of software related to the average income is lowest. Absolute prices for software are about the same for Europe and the US (if you consider the euro and dollar on par, although this is not correct for the moment) but the average income is significantly lower. Also in the overview of cost of living you can see that electronics and software are significantly more expensive in Europe, compared to costs of daily living.

Obviously Eastern Europe is again way down on that, as are China, Vietnam etc.
You can imagine that if you can have a meal for 50 cents, you are not going to pay $50 for a computer game.

So while piracy is a global problem, it is not unexpected that the problem is much more prominent in the mentioned area's. There are other relevant factors but this is a major one.



BigMac

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August 11, 2004 8:50:59 AM

HA!!! if you dont want to buy crappy games get a PC Gamer subscription. I've read pc gamer a few times and wholeheartedly disagree with everything they say and firmly beleive they use monkeys to play and review the games. The PC Gamer review of doom3 posted elsewhere on this forum gave it a glowing report. I knew the minute i saw that review that Doom3 was gonna be [-peep-] :)  so my opinion is get a PC Gamer subscription if you havent a clue about games, like substandard writing and reviews and like wasting money..... pfffft im still smiling about that... PC Gamer my arse....

"Its only when you look at ants closely with a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames"
August 11, 2004 8:55:25 AM

oooh the south side, yur not one of those ppl from donnybrook with the fake posh dublin accent are ya? do u go to lan parties??? im heading this weekend to gamecon out in sandyford which is expected to have about 170 ppl. should be good craic.

"Its only when you look at ants closely with a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames"
August 11, 2004 10:11:08 AM

Donnybrook? Huh! I'm in Ballsbridge, I'll have you know. Now be quiet and take out my trash. [/sorry, just being a jerk].

Don't have time for LAN parties. Wife and kids see to that :frown: But I'll sure as sh*t be picking up a copy of Doom 3 on Friday.

:eek:  I'm the good time that was had by all :eek: 
August 11, 2004 10:45:12 AM

they have bin men for that and I aint one of em... nah I'm travelling up from kerry for it... it should be a good laugh... plus a few ppl attending have wives and kids... one brings his kid along for the day part, altho its a kinda weird seeing an 6 yr old play C&C generals better than i can and also funny the way he calls his jacket his heavy armour....

"Its only when you look at ants closely with a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames"
August 11, 2004 10:55:03 AM

That's a hell of a journey, hope you have a good time at the LAN. My wife works in Sandyford, I know it well.

Roll on Doom 3, eh?

:eek:  I'm the good time that was had by all :eek: 
August 11, 2004 4:55:00 PM

you fools, id software wont feel anything from this leak, they will still make a sh!t load of money off the thing, and there is no way the game was completely downloaded by 50,000 people, no one has the bandwidth to let 50,000 people download the game in just a couple days for free. even with a torrent. it took me 2 days to download it from a torrent. and you say that before the game came out already 50,000 people downloaded it? BULLSH!T its not possible cause it was only leaked 2 or 3 days and made available to the masses. i for one will never pay more than 30 dollars for a game. let alone 55. thats just robbery. as far as piracy crippling any thing, thats bullsh!t as well, piracy has been around forever and there are still plenty of very good companies out there with ceos that have billions in the bank. all it comes down to is greed. there is no way in hell a game is worth 60 bucks, i dont care how long it took to make and how much money it took to make it, that doesnt make the value of the game go up in my book. i might pay 40 for half life 2 when it comes out, MIGHT. but im not paying 40. if i cant find it to download id sooner shoplift it from walmart than pay 50 bucks for it. does that make me a theif? probly, but not to my own convictions.

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August 11, 2004 5:41:47 PM

Hey Wingding, sorry that wasn't meant to be directed at you, you were just the last post so I clicked it :p 

I was in a bad mood and just needed to let something out...
August 11, 2004 9:27:44 PM

I don't have a link, it was from page 9 in the September 2004 printed magazine.

Another thought is that by percentage the USA might be the least guilty of piracy, but not in pure numbers. 22% of software pirated here, is an aweful lot of illegal software. Just clarifying that in no way do I think the US is guilt free here. Far from it! But still, the 90+% piracy rate in some countries was unbelievable to read.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
August 11, 2004 11:19:57 PM

Right on jihiggs. Paying 50+ foar a game is crazy. That means at most I get 1 game a month. Atleast with pirated software I can play more new games. And doom3 in Canada is $70 bucks. Its a good game but not that good.
August 12, 2004 9:10:01 AM

What is it with you guys? (specifically gpol and jihiggs in this particular conversation)

Nobody is making you buy these games, but you guys want to play it. If you want to play it, go buy a copy, make someone else crazy about you so that they will buy it for you, find a copy that is cheaper prized, and once you found it and bought it, then play the game.

Why do you feel empowered to determine what the right price for a game is for YOU? Why should you pay nothing or a lot less while everyone else is coughing up the dough?

Don't get me wrong. I understand piracy, and I've even done it myself, but I will never try to justify it and I have never felt good about it (not too overly worried either I have to admit). It is wrong. It is easy and there is a very low chance of actually getting caught, but it's still wrong.

I assume you guys dont want to pay a couple of grand for a nice flat screen LCD television either and I cannot imagine you agree with the price that they ask for it. So how do you resolve this problem? Or is it maybe such that you accept that you do not find it worth the money (or don't have the money) to own one? Can anyone here point out the difference between a piece of software and hardware in this respect? I'm talking about the ethical difference here, not the difference in implementation.

The problem I have with piracy (apart from the moral issue that you are stealing) is that it does not seem to be very efficicient in inciting the producers of the products (software, movies, music) to come up with better products or better prized products, or added value that is not as easy to copy as the product itself.

It looks like there is a turning point coming up with regard to music, many online shops are now popping up where you can legally buy and download music, and law and behold, piracy of music is starting to drop. But look at the time it took for the big publishers to get ready! Where are the legal DVD quality download shops for movies? Why no big online releases of awesome games?

There is a real demand for downloadable music, movies and games so the companies that will provide these legally, will attract a fair share of the market. Of course if I download a game without a nice jewel case and a booklet, and no hardcopy backup, then I want to pay less than what is currently available in retail shops and so I should because it's a much cheaper way of distributing the content.

And of course there will always be people around that think the price is not fair to them, and will remain pirates. Since the dawn of time, there've been people around that took stuf from others just because they can. Part of becoming civilized is developing a sense of respect for ownership.

What is a good idea though is that interested consumers should get organized so that the common point of view of the digitally literate customer will get across much faster to the big corporations that have taken control over these sectors (music, movies, games). The responsiveness of these companies to customer needs is depressing to say the least. Consumer organisations exist on a national level (at least they do here, in Europe) but that does not seem to cut it for these international online businesses.




BigMac

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