Need Advice - 2.8 XP or 2.8 A64?

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

I'm on a budget and currently ready to upgrade to something a little
faster than the K6-2 500MHz/128 MB/FIC VA-503+ I'm using right now. I'm
a bit of a newbie when it comes to building, so I could use some advice.

The local computer shop is selling the Athlon XP (Barton) 2.8 for $99
and the Athlon 64 2800+ for $119. I want to do video capture and burn
DVDs smoothly and probably learn to overclock a little down the line.
Would I be gaining much performance by spending $20 more for the Athlon
64 or would I be better off going with the XP (since it's operating
frequency of 2.083 is faster than the 1.8 of the A64)? I don't think
I'll need the 64 bit support for awhile.

I was thinking of pairing the cpu with either: 2.8 XP with the A7N8X-X
or A7N8X-E Deluxe. Or A64 2800+ with K8N. Is the A7N8X-E worth $30 more
than the A7N8X-X?
10 answers Last reply
More about need advice
  1. Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

    "rog344" <rog_0629@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:GmONe.118475$5N3.107513@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    > I'm on a budget and currently ready to upgrade to something a little
    > faster than the K6-2 500MHz/128 MB/FIC VA-503+ I'm using right now. I'm a
    > bit of a newbie when it comes to building, so I could use some advice.
    >
    > The local computer shop is selling the Athlon XP (Barton) 2.8 for $99 and
    > the Athlon 64 2800+ for $119. I want to do video capture and burn DVDs
    > smoothly and probably learn to overclock a little down the line. Would I
    > be gaining much performance by spending $20 more for the Athlon 64 or
    > would I be better off going with the XP (since it's operating frequency of
    > 2.083 is faster than the 1.8 of the A64)? I don't think I'll need the 64
    > bit support for awhile.
    >
    > I was thinking of pairing the cpu with either: 2.8 XP with the A7N8X-X or
    > A7N8X-E Deluxe. Or A64 2800+ with K8N. Is the A7N8X-E worth $30 more than
    > the A7N8X-X?

    If you're planning on keeping the next PC as long as you appear to have had
    this one, I'd suggest a Socket 939 A64 setup. That way, you'll be able to
    upgrade the CPU in a couple of years. We've already seen the fastest Socket
    754 CPU.
    Something like an Asus A8V (K8T800 chipset works with new dual core CPU's
    with a BIOS update), $93 at Newegg. A Venice 3000+ CPU, $146 at Newegg. Of
    course, you'll also need new memory and possibly a new video card, depending
    on the age of your current card (I'm trying to remember if the 503+ had an
    AGP slot.
  2. Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

    In article <GmONe.118475$5N3.107513@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
    rog344 <rog_0629@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > I'm on a budget and currently ready to upgrade to something a little
    > faster than the K6-2 500MHz/128 MB/FIC VA-503+ I'm using right now. I'm
    > a bit of a newbie when it comes to building, so I could use some advice.
    >
    > The local computer shop is selling the Athlon XP (Barton) 2.8 for $99
    > and the Athlon 64 2800+ for $119. I want to do video capture and burn
    > DVDs smoothly and probably learn to overclock a little down the line.
    > Would I be gaining much performance by spending $20 more for the Athlon
    > 64 or would I be better off going with the XP (since it's operating
    > frequency of 2.083 is faster than the 1.8 of the A64)? I don't think
    > I'll need the 64 bit support for awhile.
    >
    > I was thinking of pairing the cpu with either: 2.8 XP with the A7N8X-X
    > or A7N8X-E Deluxe. Or A64 2800+ with K8N. Is the A7N8X-E worth $30 more
    > than the A7N8X-X?

    Under pathological conditions, the core clock speed of these
    processors is the most important parameter. I first got a
    taste of this, when someone with a scientific application
    was looking for a new motherboard. I recommended S939 based
    on the outstanding memory bandwidth numbers available on
    it, but what happened was, it behaved more like its clock
    speed rather than its P.R. rating. In other words, if one
    processor is 2200MHz with 512KB cache, and another processor
    is 2000MHz with 1MB cache, then if an application doesn't
    benefit from L2 cache, the 2200MHz processor is going to win
    by exactly 2200/2000 => 10%.

    This article, for example, kind of surprised me. The S754 is not
    doing too bad, in the mix of applications they selected here. But
    as they note, the S754 socket has no future, so whatever you get
    today, is all you will ever get. Otherwise, the S939, even if you
    lose a bit in performance today, might allow a better tomorrow,
    when prices on some of these processors drop a bit.

    http://www.behardware.com/articles/531-7/testing-12-athlon-64s.html

    Now, you would hope that most of the time, the extra
    hardware you paid for, would pay off. The AMD P.R. rating
    system is documented, and for the P.R. rating system to
    make sense, you would have to be doing the same mix of
    programs as the AMD guys used. I cannot seem to find one
    of these docs for S754... Note that office applications is
    part of the P.R. rating system, something that participants
    in this newsgroup probably don't care about.

    http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/30579_hi.pdf

    This AMD doc suggests dual channel is worth 200MHz, and going from
    512KB cache to 1MB cache is worth 200MHz. The Behardware article
    doesn't seem to agree about the benefit of the dual channel
    memory.

    http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_9487%5E10248,00.html

    In terms of overclocking, you should visit the many private
    forums and search there. This database used to be a great
    place to access raw data, but after they redesigned it, and
    threw out the old data, there isn't much left. In any case,
    this might give you some idea as to how much overclock to
    expect.

    http://www.cpudatabase.com/index.cfm?action=search

    HTH,
    Paul
  3. Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

    "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
    news:nospam-2008052106110001@192.168.1.178...
    > In article <GmONe.118475$5N3.107513@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
    > rog344 <rog_0629@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >> I'm on a budget and currently ready to upgrade to something a little
    >> faster than the K6-2 500MHz/128 MB/FIC VA-503+ I'm using right now. I'm
    >> a bit of a newbie when it comes to building, so I could use some advice.
    >>
    >> The local computer shop is selling the Athlon XP (Barton) 2.8 for $99
    >> and the Athlon 64 2800+ for $119. I want to do video capture and burn
    >> DVDs smoothly and probably learn to overclock a little down the line.
    >> Would I be gaining much performance by spending $20 more for the Athlon
    >> 64 or would I be better off going with the XP (since it's operating
    >> frequency of 2.083 is faster than the 1.8 of the A64)? I don't think
    >> I'll need the 64 bit support for awhile.
    >>
    >> I was thinking of pairing the cpu with either: 2.8 XP with the A7N8X-X
    >> or A7N8X-E Deluxe. Or A64 2800+ with K8N. Is the A7N8X-E worth $30 more
    >> than the A7N8X-X?
    >
    > Under pathological conditions, the core clock speed of these
    > processors is the most important parameter. I first got a
    > taste of this, when someone with a scientific application
    > was looking for a new motherboard. I recommended S939 based
    > on the outstanding memory bandwidth numbers available on
    > it, but what happened was, it behaved more like its clock
    > speed rather than its P.R. rating. In other words, if one
    > processor is 2200MHz with 512KB cache, and another processor
    > is 2000MHz with 1MB cache, then if an application doesn't
    > benefit from L2 cache, the 2200MHz processor is going to win
    > by exactly 2200/2000 => 10%.
    >
    > This article, for example, kind of surprised me. The S754 is not
    > doing too bad, in the mix of applications they selected here. But
    > as they note, the S754 socket has no future, so whatever you get
    > today, is all you will ever get. Otherwise, the S939, even if you
    > lose a bit in performance today, might allow a better tomorrow,
    > when prices on some of these processors drop a bit.
    >
    > http://www.behardware.com/articles/531-7/testing-12-athlon-64s.html
    >
    > Now, you would hope that most of the time, the extra
    > hardware you paid for, would pay off. The AMD P.R. rating
    > system is documented, and for the P.R. rating system to
    > make sense, you would have to be doing the same mix of
    > programs as the AMD guys used. I cannot seem to find one
    > of these docs for S754... Note that office applications is
    > part of the P.R. rating system, something that participants
    > in this newsgroup probably don't care about.
    >
    > http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/30579_hi.pdf
    >
    > This AMD doc suggests dual channel is worth 200MHz, and going from
    > 512KB cache to 1MB cache is worth 200MHz. The Behardware article
    > doesn't seem to agree about the benefit of the dual channel
    > memory.
    >
    > http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_9487%5E10248,00.html
    >
    > In terms of overclocking, you should visit the many private
    > forums and search there. This database used to be a great
    > place to access raw data, but after they redesigned it, and
    > threw out the old data, there isn't much left. In any case,
    > this might give you some idea as to how much overclock to
    > expect.
    >
    > http://www.cpudatabase.com/index.cfm?action=search
    >
    > HTH,
    > Paul

    I have two socket 754 mbs running. Since jan 05... The price of one 939=2
    754 systems...

    amd athlon 64 3000 newcastle other processor is a sempron 2800.....

    xman
  4. Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

    Thanks. I'll check out the links you provided.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

    On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:43:50 GMT, rog344 <rog_0629@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >I'm on a budget and currently ready to upgrade to something a little
    >faster than the K6-2 500MHz/128 MB/FIC VA-503+ I'm using right now. I'm
    >a bit of a newbie when it comes to building, so I could use some advice.
    >
    >The local computer shop is selling the Athlon XP (Barton) 2.8 for $99
    >and the Athlon 64 2800+ for $119. I want to do video capture and burn
    >DVDs smoothly and probably learn to overclock a little down the line.
    >Would I be gaining much performance by spending $20 more for the Athlon
    >64 or would I be better off going with the XP (since it's operating
    >frequency of 2.083 is faster than the 1.8 of the A64)? I don't think
    >I'll need the 64 bit support for awhile.
    >
    >I was thinking of pairing the cpu with either: 2.8 XP with the A7N8X-X
    >or A7N8X-E Deluxe. Or A64 2800+ with K8N. Is the A7N8X-E worth $30 more
    >than the A7N8X-X?

    Well if you decide to go the Barton route the A7N8X-X (VIA chipset)
    would sort of be a bad choice IMO, it doesn't lock the PCI/AGP bus so it
    has less potential in overclocking, unlike the A7N8X and A7N8X Deluxe
    versions (Nvidia chipsets) it doesn't support Dual Ch. memory mode
    either. The Deluxe versions also have SoundStorm, 2 LAN ports, SATA, so
    for $30 more it's a pretty good deal if you can make use of those
    features.

    Ed
    --
    A7N8X v2.00 / Barton 2800+ @ 3200+
    VNF3-250 / Athlon 64 3200+
  6. Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

    Thanks for pointing that out to me. I thought the A7N8X-X was the same
    in terms of overclocking features as the A7N8X-E/A7N8X. And I did want
    an Nvidia based board this time around, not Via. The extra $30 does look
    like a pretty good deal.


    On 8/21/05 11:35 AM, Ed wrote:

    >
    > Well if you decide to go the Barton route the A7N8X-X (VIA chipset)
    > would sort of be a bad choice IMO, it doesn't lock the PCI/AGP bus so it
    > has less potential in overclocking, unlike the A7N8X and A7N8X Deluxe
    > versions (Nvidia chipsets) it doesn't support Dual Ch. memory mode
    > either. The Deluxe versions also have SoundStorm, 2 LAN ports, SATA, so
    > for $30 more it's a pretty good deal if you can make use of those
    > features.
    >
    > Ed
    > --
    > A7N8X v2.00 / Barton 2800+ @ 3200+
    > VNF3-250 / Athlon 64 3200+
    >
  7. Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

    "Ed" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:g3fhg1pll5f4atthvuipb254sph2j7nqvi@4ax.com...
    > On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:43:50 GMT, rog344 <rog_0629@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Well if you decide to go the Barton route the A7N8X-X (VIA chipset)
    > would sort of be a bad choice IMO, it doesn't lock the PCI/AGP bus so it
    > has less potential in overclocking, unlike the A7N8X and A7N8X Deluxe
    > versions (Nvidia chipsets) it doesn't support Dual Ch. memory mode
    > either. The Deluxe versions also have SoundStorm, 2 LAN ports, SATA, so
    > for $30 more it's a pretty good deal if you can make use of those
    > features.
    >
    > Ed
    > --
    > A7N8X v2.00 / Barton 2800+ @ 3200+
    > VNF3-250 / Athlon 64 3200+
    >

    Uh, Ed, I think you may have meant the A7*V*8X-X? The A7N8X-X has the NForce
    2 chipset from NVidia, and does give the user the ability to lock the
    PCI/AGP bus. In fact, the only feature found in the A7N8X and A7N8x Deluxe
    that is not found in the A7N8X-X is support for dual channel memory.
    I have both an A7N8X-X and an A7N8X Deluxe here both running happily with
    2500+ Bartons overclocked to 3200+ speed (11 x 200) with AGP/PCI locked.
    I agree the extra features on the Deluxe you mention may be worth the extra
    $$ if the OP needs them, but the A7N8X-X will overclock just fine.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

    On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 07:02:45 -0500, "Peter van der Goes"
    <p_vandergoes@toadstool.u> wrote:

    >Uh, Ed, I think you may have meant the A7*V*8X-X? The A7N8X-X has the NForce
    >2 chipset from NVidia, and does give the user the ability to lock the
    >PCI/AGP bus. In fact, the only feature found in the A7N8X and A7N8x Deluxe
    >that is not found in the A7N8X-X is support for dual channel memory.

    YES YOU ARE RIGHT! (sorry bout that!)

    >I have both an A7N8X-X and an A7N8X Deluxe here both running happily with
    >2500+ Bartons overclocked to 3200+ speed (11 x 200) with AGP/PCI locked.
    >I agree the extra features on the Deluxe you mention may be worth the extra
    >$$ if the OP needs them, but the A7N8X-X will overclock just fine.
    >

    The Unlocked Bartons are the way to go if you want to get all you can
    out of these boards. 2+ years on my A7N8X and can't say one bad thing
    about it, very stable (up to 210MHz), fails Prime95 at 212MHz even with
    PC4000.

    Ed
  9. Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

    On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 20:45:57 GMT, rog344 <rog_0629@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >Thanks for pointing that out to me. I thought the A7N8X-X was the same
    >in terms of overclocking features as the A7N8X-E/A7N8X. And I did want
    >an Nvidia based board this time around, not Via. The extra $30 does look
    >like a pretty good deal.
    >
    I stand corrected, the A7N8X-X does have the NForce2 chipset.

    Ed
  10. Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

    Thanks to both of you for the correction. I think I'm leaning towards a
    Barton system now. Should suit my purposes fine.

    -rog344


    On 8/22/05 12:26 PM, Ed wrote:

    > On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 07:02:45 -0500, "Peter van der Goes"
    > <p_vandergoes@toadstool.u> wrote:
    >
    >>Uh, Ed, I think you may have meant the A7*V*8X-X? The A7N8X-X has the NForce
    >>2 chipset from NVidia, and does give the user the ability to lock the
    >>PCI/AGP bus. In fact, the only feature found in the A7N8X and A7N8x Deluxe
    >>that is not found in the A7N8X-X is support for dual channel memory.
    >
    > YES YOU ARE RIGHT! (sorry bout that!)
    >
    >>I have both an A7N8X-X and an A7N8X Deluxe here both running happily with
    >>2500+ Bartons overclocked to 3200+ speed (11 x 200) with AGP/PCI locked.
    >>I agree the extra features on the Deluxe you mention may be worth the extra
    >>$$ if the OP needs them, but the A7N8X-X will overclock just fine.
    >>
    >
    > The Unlocked Bartons are the way to go if you want to get all you can
    > out of these boards. 2+ years on my A7N8X and can't say one bad thing
    > about it, very stable (up to 210MHz), fails Prime95 at 212MHz even with
    > PC4000.
    >
    > Ed
    >
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