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Advisable to warm up HDD before formatting?

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Anonymous
September 18, 2004 7:44:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let
the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
format it?

I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a HDD but
I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
temperature.

If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure the blank
drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably stop
spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in the drive,
the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?

BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a load on
them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by moving
its actuator arm?
September 18, 2004 7:44:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

what's with all this cross posting lately?

There is no need to do anything to a HD before starting to prepare it
for formatting other than fdisk or maxblast or WD/IBM HD tools. after
the partitions are done format it.

"Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC
and let
> the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before
I
> format it?
>
> I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a
HDD but
> I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
> temperature.
>
> If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure
the blank
> drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably
stop
> spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in the
drive,
> the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?
>
> BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a
load on
> them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by
moving
> its actuator arm?
Anonymous
September 18, 2004 7:44:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

As JAD said, it is not necessary to "warm up" the drive. The critical
information, the actual track positions, have already been placed on the
drive at the factory when they do a low level format of the drive.

The partition and high level format of the drive that you do in preparing it
for use has no effect on the low level format done at the factory. If it
did happen, the low level format would be the one affected by thermal
problems.


"Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let
> the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
> format it?
>
> I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a HDD
but
> I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
> temperature.
>
> If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure the
blank
> drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably stop
> spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in the
drive,
> the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?
>
> BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a load
on
> them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by
moving
> its actuator arm?
Related resources
Anonymous
September 18, 2004 7:44:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

In article <9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4>, sorry@no.email.please
says...
> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let
> the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
> format it?
>
> I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a HDD but
> I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
> temperature.
>
> If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure the blank
> drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably stop
> spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in the drive,
> the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?
>
> BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a load on
> them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by moving
> its actuator arm?

Unless you are formatting an ancient physically positioned drive, like
old sub-40M drives, heat shouldn't be an issue. Modern drives have
positioning information embedded with the data. It shouldn't be affected
by heat or position, except possibly under extreme conditions.

--
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
law!!
http://home.att.net/~andyross
Anonymous
September 18, 2004 7:44:57 PM

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Sandee wrote:
> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC
> and
> let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up
> before I format it?
>

No, there's absolutely no need for "pre-heating" a hard drive.
And how would you make it spin, anyway? It'll have no contents, and
noting to do.

>
> BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a
> load on them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a
> new
> HDD by moving its actuator arm?

Never heard of one, and can't imagine there ever having been a
need for anyone to develop such a utility.

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having
both at once. - RAH
September 18, 2004 7:44:58 PM

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Never heard of one, and can't imagine there ever having been a
> need for anyone to develop such a utility.

remember the old 'park' the head before you moved the machine dos
utility?




"Bruce Chambers" <bruce_a_chambers@h0tmail.com> wrote in message
news:o QzJSWZnEHA.2096@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl...
> Sandee wrote:
> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC
> > and
> > let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up
> > before I format it?
> >
>
> No, there's absolutely no need for "pre-heating" a hard drive.
> And how would you make it spin, anyway? It'll have no contents, and
> noting to do.
>
> >
> > BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting
a
> > load on them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a
> > new
> > HDD by moving its actuator arm?
>
> >
> --
>
> Bruce Chambers
>
> Help us help you:
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>
> You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
> having
> both at once. - RAH
>
>
>
Anonymous
September 18, 2004 7:44:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

JAD wrote:
>
> remember the old 'park' the head before you moved the machine dos
> utility?
>
>
>
>


That I remember, but I still don't recall there ever being a need
to warm up a hard drive before using it.
--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having
both at once. - RAH
Anonymous
September 18, 2004 8:25:47 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

> "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
> news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...

> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC
> and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms
> up before I format it?

Only if you're using a 1980s-vintage hard drive that positions its
heads with a stepper motor instead of a servo and voice coil, but even
with them this is necessary only if the drive:

a) has a track 0 calibration mechanism that isn't on the platters (old
Miniscribes where the stepper motor shaft had a flag that passed by an
optical sensor). The servo/voice coil system automatically
compensates for expension and contraction caused by changes in
temperature because the magnetic servo marks shift with the data
marks. Any thermal calibration is only for fine-tuning the system for
faster seeks.

b) is being run with 50% more data capacity than it's designed for
(MFM rated drive being used with RLL 2,7, especially Seagates). But I
believe such drives went out of production in the early 1990s, and
none were over 60M-80M in capacity (smaller than many flash drives).

c) is colder than the recommended lower temperature limit, in which
case it should first be allowed to warm up inside a sealed anti-static
container to prevent condensation.
Anonymous
September 18, 2004 8:35:46 PM

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"JAD" <Kapasitor@coldmail.com> wrote in news:10komj3kf8ghe80
@corp.supernews.com:

> Never heard of one, and can't imagine there ever having been a
>> need for anyone to develop such a utility.
>
> remember the old 'park' the head before you moved the machine dos
> utility?

Parking was not limited to DOS, also other OSes supported a park.

--
John MexIT: http://johnbokma.com/mexit/
personal page: http://johnbokma.com/
Experienced programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html
Anonymous
September 18, 2004 9:01:59 PM

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On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:36:48 UTC, "Bruce Chambers"
<bruce_a_chambers@h0tmail.com> wrote:

> JAD wrote:

> That I remember, but I still don't recall there ever being a need
> to warm up a hard drive before using it.

Not warm up, but acclimatise.

I managed various large installations in the past, and if a new
Winchester-style drive (similar technology to now, but a lot bigger!)
came on site, engineers wouldn't fit it until it had been in the machine
room for 24 hours. Basically, to do with possible condensation.

Modern drives are unlikely to need this but the lore remains.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
Anonymous
September 18, 2004 10:14:42 PM

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Bruce Chambers wrote:
> JAD wrote:
>>
>> remember the old 'park' the head before you moved the machine
>> dos utility?
>
> That I remember, but I still don't recall there ever being a
> need to warm up a hard drive before using it.

When you could still do a low level format, it was advisable.

--
"This is a wonderful answer. It's off-topic, it's incorrect,
and it doesn't answer the question." -- Richard Heathfield

"I support the Red Sox and any team that beats the Yankees"
Anonymous
September 18, 2004 11:34:48 PM

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"Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let
> the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
> format it?

Yes and if it was brought into the room from a significantly different
temperature environment then let it sit in the PC a half hour before
powering it up and then wait the other half hour.

> I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a HDD
but
> I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
> temperature.

Yes.

> If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure the
blank
> drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably stop
> spinning after a period of time.

Hit the space bar occassionally or don't worry about it as being powered is
the important issue.

> Is this spindown period set in the drive,
> the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?

Could be either BIOS or OS but not drive.

> BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a load
on
> them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by
moving
> its actuator arm?

Yes and you could get the drive quite hot. Don't do that.

Most modern HDs will allow one to get away with not doing the above most of
the time but on a fresh format over caution doesn't hurt.
Anonymous
September 18, 2004 11:46:52 PM

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"JAD" <Kapasitor@coldmail.com> wrote in message
news:10kojal61sbur2e@corp.supernews.com...
> what's with all this cross posting lately?
>
> There is no need to do anything to a HD before starting to prepare it
> for formatting other than fdisk or maxblast or WD/IBM HD tools. after
> the partitions are done format it.

Nope, waiting is not a bad idea.

> "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
> news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC
> and let
> > the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before
> I
> > format it?
> >
> > I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a
> HDD but
> > I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
> > temperature.
> >
> > If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure
> the blank
> > drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably
> stop
> > spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in the
> drive,
> > the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?
> >
> > BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a
> load on
> > them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by
> moving
> > its actuator arm?
>
>
September 18, 2004 11:46:53 PM

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you throw salt over your shoulder?

"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
news:Mg03d.605953$Gx4.363174@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "JAD" <Kapasitor@coldmail.com> wrote in message
> news:10kojal61sbur2e@corp.supernews.com...
> > what's with all this cross posting lately?
> >
> > There is no need to do anything to a HD before starting to prepare
it
> > for formatting other than fdisk or maxblast or WD/IBM HD tools.
after
> > the partitions are done format it.
>
> Nope, waiting is not a bad idea.
>
> > "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
> > news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> > > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the
PC
> > and let
> > > the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up
before
> > I
> > > format it?
> > >
> > > I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration"
in a
> > HDD but
> > > I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a
stable
> > > temperature.
> > >
> > > If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I
ensure
> > the blank
> > > drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will
probably
> > stop
> > > spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in
the
> > drive,
> > > the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?
> > >
> > > BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by
putting a
> > load on
> > > them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new
HDD by
> > moving
> > > its actuator arm?
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 2:16:34 AM

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CBFalconer wrote:
> Bruce Chambers wrote:
>
>>JAD wrote:
>>
>>>remember the old 'park' the head before you moved the machine
>>>dos utility?

You needed to park the head(s) every time the platters were spun down,
so they would not land on the "landing area" rather than on the data
tracks. Modern drives use a voice coil actuator which does this
automatically when power is removed.
>>
>>That I remember, but I still don't recall there ever being a
>>need to warm up a hard drive before using it.
>
>
> When you could still do a low level format, it was advisable.
>
The tracks were selected by a stepper motor. If you low-level formatted
the drive, the sector information was re-written to the stepper motor's
track positions. The drive then ran best at the temperature at which it
was low-level formatted. Modern drives use "inbeded servo" tracks which
follow the data tracks with temperature changes.

Virg Wall
--
A foolish consistency is the
hobgoblin of little minds,........
Ralph Waldo Emerson
(Microsoft programmer's manual.)
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 3:51:55 AM

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"do_not_spam_me" <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:101710fa.0409181525.4da17624@posting.google.com...
> > "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
> > news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
>
> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC
> > and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms
> > up before I format it?
>
> Only if you're using a 1980s-vintage hard drive that positions its

Not entirely true. You are forgetting the concept of temperature gradient
and warping and margins. Allowing the drive to relax temperature wise
before formatting is a smart move and that goes for today's drives with the
very high data densities.

> heads with a stepper motor instead of a servo and voice coil, but even
> with them this is necessary only if the drive:
>
> a) has a track 0 calibration mechanism that isn't on the platters (old
> Miniscribes where the stepper motor shaft had a flag that passed by an
> optical sensor). The servo/voice coil system automatically
> compensates for expension and contraction caused by changes in
> temperature because the magnetic servo marks shift with the data
> marks. Any thermal calibration is only for fine-tuning the system for
> faster seeks.
>
> b) is being run with 50% more data capacity than it's designed for
> (MFM rated drive being used with RLL 2,7, especially Seagates). But I
> believe such drives went out of production in the early 1990s, and
> none were over 60M-80M in capacity (smaller than many flash drives).
>
> c) is colder than the recommended lower temperature limit, in which
> case it should first be allowed to warm up inside a sealed anti-static
> container to prevent condensation.
September 19, 2004 2:14:04 PM

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On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:11:39 -0400, "LVTravel" <none@nothere.com> wrote:

>As JAD said, it is not necessary to "warm up" the drive. The critical
>information, the actual track positions, have already been placed on the
>drive at the factory when they do a low level format of the drive.
>
>The partition and high level format of the drive that you do in preparing it
>for use has no effect on the low level format done at the factory. If it
>did happen, the low level format would be the one affected by thermal
>problems.

If the VC/servo mechanism tracks the ACTUAL track alignment as placed during the
LLF, then all reading/writing is correctly aligned always. Then why is there
any need for drives do this thermal recal?
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 2:14:05 PM

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budgie wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:11:39 -0400, "LVTravel" <none@nothere.com> wrote:
>
>>As JAD said, it is not necessary to "warm up" the drive. The critical
>>information, the actual track positions, have already been placed on the
>>drive at the factory when they do a low level format of the drive.
>>
>>The partition and high level format of the drive that you do in preparing
>>it
>>for use has no effect on the low level format done at the factory. If it
>>did happen, the low level format would be the one affected by thermal
>>problems.
>
> If the VC/servo mechanism tracks the ACTUAL track alignment as placed
> during the
> LLF, then all reading/writing is correctly aligned always. Then why is
> there any need for drives do this thermal recal?

At one time there was a separate platter with the servo tracks, so it was
possible for temperature changes to alter the head positions slightly
relative to the data tracks. That is no longer the case, each platter has
its own servo information stored.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 3:15:56 PM

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> "do_not_spam_me" <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:101710fa.0409181525.4da17624@posting.google.com...
>> > "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
>> > news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
>>
>> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
>> > the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
>> > that it warms up before I format it?
>>
>> Only if you're using a 1980s-vintage hard drive that positions
>> its

"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote:
>
> Not entirely true. You are forgetting the concept of
> temperature gradient and warping and margins. Allowing the
> drive to relax temperature wise before formatting is a smart
> move and that goes for today's drives with the very high data
> densities.
>

I am the OP and what you say was part of my thinking behind my question.

One poster said that the drives come preformatted (at a low level). However
although I am not really clear exactly what my formatting in NTFS or FAT32
does it seems to involve creating index areas (MFT or file allocation
tables), partition boot areas and perhaps creating sectors/clusters too.

So I was thinking that if the HDD's head to track alighnment was not optimal
(because the drive was still in a warm up phase and the thermal
recalibrations were not happening very frequently) then I might be writing
the the formatting data in a way which is slightly off-center of the track.

As I will probably only do this formatting once or twice in the life of a
partition then I figured that some extra care like warming up the drive
could be justified when I do it.

Seems from what a lot of people here say, except for you Ron, that I need
not bother. However I do not want to ignore what works in practice for many
people. OTOH maybe those people who get a very unlucky series of HDD
failures are doing something like formatting when at room temperature (not
quite 70 F or 20 C) rather than the disk working temp which can be well over
110 F or 40 F).
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 3:17:57 PM

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budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>>As JAD said, it is not necessary to "warm up" the drive. The
>>critical information, the actual track positions, have already
>>been placed on the drive at the factory when they do a low
>>level format of the drive.
>>
>>The partition and high level format of the drive that you do in
>>preparing it for use has no effect on the low level format done
>>at the factory. If it did happen, the low level format would
>>be the one affected by thermal problems.
>
> If the VC/servo mechanism tracks the ACTUAL track alignment as
> placed during the LLF, then all reading/writing is correctly
> aligned always. Then why is there any need for drives do this
> thermal recal?


Do all drives do a thermal reclaibration?

I am told the IBM drives used to be very noisy when doing it but on my
Seagates I have never heard any noise from them engaging in some periodic
activity like thermal recalibration.
September 19, 2004 5:20:15 PM

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On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:44:56 +0100, Sandee <sorry@no.email.please>
wrote:

> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
> the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
> that it warms up before I format it?

Yes.
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 5:20:16 PM

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On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:20:15 UTC, Ken <___ken3@telia.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:44:56 +0100, Sandee <sorry@no.email.please>
> wrote:
>
> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
> > the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
> > that it warms up before I format it?
>
> Yes.

Please explain why.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
September 19, 2004 5:50:23 PM

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On 19 Sep 2004 11:39:01 GMT, "Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:

>>> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
>>> the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
>>> that it warms up before I format it?
>>
>> Yes.
>
> Please explain why.

Because of normal psychical behavior of different materials.
Temperature change make it expand or crimp.
The drive would be in normal temperature span when
formatting for minimizing the chance of fault.
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 5:50:24 PM

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On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:50:23 UTC, Ken <___ken3@telia.com> wrote:

> Because of normal psychical behavior of different materials.

I didn't know disks were psychic! (actually, S.M.A.R.T. comes near...)!

> Temperature change make it expand or crimp.
> The drive would be in normal temperature span when
> formatting for minimizing the chance of fault.

See my other reply.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 5:53:48 PM

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Howdy!

"Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let
> the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
> format it?

Man, talk about a "blast from the past" B)

We used to have to do this back in the 80's. But right around 1986,
when closed loop head positioners (first with a separate servo surface, then
with servo bursts mixed with the data), that pretty much went out the door.

To answer your question - as long as it comes from short-sleeve
comfortable, then no.

(Ask me when it's been in -40 weather, and I'll tell you a different
tale B) )

RwP
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 6:08:56 PM

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On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:50:23 +0200, Ken <___ken3@telia.com>
wrote:

>On 19 Sep 2004 11:39:01 GMT, "Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>>>> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
>>>> the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
>>>> that it warms up before I format it?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>
>> Please explain why.
>
>Because of normal psychical behavior of different materials.
>Temperature change make it expand or crimp.
>The drive would be in normal temperature span when
>formatting for minimizing the chance of fault.


Except that every time the system is turned on (assuming
climate controlled environment) the HDD must then start out
"cold", boot and run system.
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 1:06:18 AM

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"Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
news:956972F15C06D74C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> budgie <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> >>As JAD said, it is not necessary to "warm up" the drive. The
> >>critical information, the actual track positions, have already
> >>been placed on the drive at the factory when they do a low
> >>level format of the drive.
> >>
> >>The partition and high level format of the drive that you do in
> >>preparing it for use has no effect on the low level format done
> >>at the factory. If it did happen, the low level format would
> >>be the one affected by thermal problems.
> >
> > If the VC/servo mechanism tracks the ACTUAL track alignment as
> > placed during the LLF, then all reading/writing is correctly
> > aligned always. Then why is there any need for drives do this
> > thermal recal?
>
>
> Do all drives do a thermal reclaibration?

I don't know of any that still do that.

> I am told the IBM drives used to be very noisy when doing it but on my
> Seagates I have never heard any noise from them engaging in some periodic
> activity like thermal recalibration.
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 1:07:37 AM

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"Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:176uZD2KcidF-pn2-xST42dNfdlWi@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:20:15 UTC, Ken <___ken3@telia.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:44:56 +0100, Sandee <sorry@no.email.please>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
> > > the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
> > > that it warms up before I format it?
> >
> > Yes.
>
> Please explain why.

It's intuitively obvious!
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 1:08:23 AM

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"Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:176uZD2KcidF-pn2-gDSEupxRlYNX@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:50:23 UTC, Ken <___ken3@telia.com> wrote:
>
> > Because of normal psychical behavior of different materials.
>
> I didn't know disks were psychic! (actually, S.M.A.R.T. comes near...)!
>
> > Temperature change make it expand or crimp.
> > The drive would be in normal temperature span when
> > formatting for minimizing the chance of fault.
>
> See my other reply.

Why?
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 1:12:40 AM

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"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:2j4rk053lqr4ncsgfs8r5jcv8nv55fcgj3@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:50:23 +0200, Ken <___ken3@telia.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On 19 Sep 2004 11:39:01 GMT, "Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:
> >
> >>>> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot
> >>>> the PC and let the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order
> >>>> that it warms up before I format it?
> >>>
> >>> Yes.
> >>
> >> Please explain why.
> >
> >Because of normal psychical behavior of different materials.
> >Temperature change make it expand or crimp.
> >The drive would be in normal temperature span when
> >formatting for minimizing the chance of fault.
>
>
> Except that every time the system is turned on (assuming
> climate controlled environment) the HDD must then start out
> "cold", boot and run system.

Yep, but then each and every time you turn it on you aren't doing a format.
And a format of a new drive also portends the probability that the drive was
also just brought into the room from an external environment at a much
larger temperature difference.
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 1:13:47 AM

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"Ralph Wade Phillips" <ralphp@techie.com> wrote in message
news:2r62tuF1586oiU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Howdy!
>
> "Sandee" <sorry@no.email.please> wrote in message
> news:9568A034CDC6074C1H4@130.133.1.4...
> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and
let
> > the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
> > format it?
>
> Man, talk about a "blast from the past" B)
>
> We used to have to do this back in the 80's. But right around
1986,
> when closed loop head positioners (first with a separate servo surface,
then
> with servo bursts mixed with the data), that pretty much went out the
door.
>
> To answer your question - as long as it comes from short-sleeve
> comfortable, then no.
>
> (Ask me when it's been in -40 weather, and I'll tell you a
different
> tale B) )

Not everyone is clueless.
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 4:30:50 AM

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"CBFalconer" <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:414C7393.C52E1191@yahoo.com...
> Bruce Chambers wrote:
> > JAD wrote:
> >>
> >> remember the old 'park' the head before you moved the machine
> >> dos utility?
> >
> > That I remember, but I still don't recall there ever being a
> > need to warm up a hard drive before using it.
>
> When you could still do a low level format, it was advisable.

Because it was 'advisable', *that* is why it could do it.

There is a reason why it was called "Format Track" (and not Format
Unit, the SCSI equivalent that is still supported, unlike the ATA form).

>
> --
September 20, 2004 8:41:03 AM

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"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:<cik55t1964@news1.newsguy.com>...

> At one time there was a separate platter with the servo
> tracks, so it was possible for temperature changes to
> alter the head positions slightly relative to the data
> tracks. That is no longer the case, each platter has
> its own servo information stored.

Can the servo writer access all the platters through the
small hole on the side of the drive?

I have problems understanding how thermal calibration
is a bigger benefit when only one platter has a servo
because if each platter expands slightly differently,
how does thermally calibrating against that one servo
improve the calibration of the other platters?
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 12:10:09 PM

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Manny wrote:

> "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:<cik55t1964@news1.newsguy.com>...
>
>> At one time there was a separate platter with the servo
>> tracks, so it was possible for temperature changes to
>> alter the head positions slightly relative to the data
>> tracks. That is no longer the case, each platter has
>> its own servo information stored.
>
> Can the servo writer access all the platters through the
> small hole on the side of the drive?

Since there is a large hole in the top of the drive until such time as the
factory decides to put the lid on that is not an issue. Regardless, there
is really no separate "servo-writer" that is inserted into the drive--the
heads that are shipped with it are used for servo writing, but positioned
by an external device at the factory.

> I have problems understanding how thermal calibration
> is a bigger benefit when only one platter has a servo
> because if each platter expands slightly differently,
> how does thermally calibrating against that one servo
> improve the calibration of the other platters?

You don't "calibrate against that one servo". You calibrate against the
data tracks and then use the calculated offset.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 1:35:21 PM

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Sandee <sorry@no.email.please> wrote:

>If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let

Why don't you cross-post to a few more groups while you're at it, you
idiot?
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 9:54:42 PM

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"Manny" <manny@london.com> wrote in message news:e5e2bb26.0409200341.2687635@posting.google.com
> "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:<cik55t1964@news1.newsguy.com>...
>
> > At one time there was a separate platter with the servo
> > tracks, so it was possible for temperature changes to
> > alter the head positions slightly relative to the data
> > tracks. That is no longer the case, each platter has
> > its own servo information stored.
>
> Can the servo writer access all the platters through the
> small hole on the side of the drive?
>
> I have problems understanding how thermal calibration
> is a bigger benefit when only one platter has a servo
> because if each platter expands slightly differently,
> how does thermally calibrating against that one servo
> improve the calibration of the other platters?

The calibration process is to update parameters for all
the platters (surfaces) individually.
September 20, 2004 11:47:32 PM

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Sounds like a good idea, then he could get even more moronic answers like
yours.


"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:akqtk0tm79ajmrkd05rg1l8fjt3oju33fp@4ax.com...
> Sandee <sorry@no.email.please> wrote:
>
>>If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let
>
> Why don't you cross-post to a few more groups while you're at it, you
> idiot?
>
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 12:50:57 AM

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"Manny" <manny@london.com> wrote in message
news:e5e2bb26.0409200341.2687635@posting.google.com...

> I have problems understanding how thermal calibration
> is a bigger benefit when only one platter has a servo
> because if each platter expands slightly differently,
> how does thermally calibrating against that one servo
> improve the calibration of the other platters?

No such process at a [single] platter level is in use these days.
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 12:52:40 AM

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Ignore the known troll and wacko.

"chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 12:52:41 AM

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OK.

Tools / Messages Rules / Blocked Sender List
Add / rondashreaugh@att.ne / Usenet
Done

"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
news:sqH3d.402611$OB3.136752@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Ignore the known troll and wacko.
>
> "chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>
>
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 1:29:24 AM

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On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:52:40 GMT, "Ron Reaugh"
<rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote:

>Ignore the known troll and wacko.
>

Which known troll and wacko?
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 12:25:35 PM

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"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@graffiti.net> wrote:

>"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> Ignore the known troll and wacko.
>
>OK.
>
>Tools / Messages Rules / Blocked Sender List
>Add / rondashreaugh@att.ne / Usenet
>Done

LOL!
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 12:27:18 PM

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"Rod Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote:

>Ignore the known troll and wacko.

I can't, Rod^Hn. You're just too funny.
September 21, 2004 1:47:25 PM

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"J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:<cimih101dnr@news2.newsguy.com>...
> Manny wrote:

> At one time there was a separate platter with the servo
> tracks, so it was possible for temperature changes to
> alter the head positions slightly relative to the data
> tracks. That is no longer the case, each platter has
> its own servo information stored.

> > Can the servo writer access all the platters through the
> > small hole on the side of the drive?
>
> Since there is a large hole in the top of the drive until
> such time as the factory decides to put the lid on that is
> not an issue. Regardless, there is really no separate
> "servo-writer" that is inserted into the drive--the heads
> that are shipped with it are used for servo writing, but
> positioned by an external device at the factory.

I have to confess ignorance abou HDs and didn't know that
this was now the practice for servo writing, but I read that
newer Hitachi-IBM HDs could write their own servos, even
without external electronics, but I thought the usual practice
was to insert a servo writer through a hole. I've seen drives
with a fairly large taped-over hole on the bottom for this,
but it's usually a small hole on the side. If this hole isn't
for servo writing, then what is it for?

> > I have problems understanding how thermal calibration
> > is a bigger benefit when only one platter has a servo
> > because if each platter expands slightly differently,
> > how does thermally calibrating against that one servo
> > improve the calibration of the other platters?
>
> You don't "calibrate against that one servo". You calibrate
> against the data tracks and then use the calculated offset.

Is there an offset because separate heads are used for reads
and writes?
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 2:09:26 PM

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"Manny" <manny@london.com> wrote in message
news:e5e2bb26.0409210847.552b94af@posting.google.com...
>
> > > Can the servo writer access all the platters through the
> > > small hole on the side of the drive?
> >
> > Since there is a large hole in the top of the drive until
> > such time as the factory decides to put the lid on that is
> > not an issue. Regardless, there is really no separate
> > "servo-writer" that is inserted into the drive--the heads
> > that are shipped with it are used for servo writing, but
> > positioned by an external device at the factory.
>
> I have to confess ignorance abou HDs and didn't know that
> this was now the practice for servo writing, but I read that
> newer Hitachi-IBM HDs could write their own servos, even
> without external electronics, but I thought the usual practice
> was to insert a servo writer through a hole. I've seen drives
> with a fairly large taped-over hole on the bottom for this,
> but it's usually a small hole on the side. If this hole isn't
> for servo writing, then what is it for?
>
The servos are written using the drive heads. The servo writer inserts one
extra head, which reads a dedicated timing track on the outer track (IBM
eliminated it). That is so the servo tracks are bit aligned. The servo writer
also uses a laser to measure the position of the head assembly.
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 5:14:12 PM

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Manny wrote:

> "J. Clarke" <jclarke@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:<cimih101dnr@news2.newsguy.com>...
>> Manny wrote:
>
>> At one time there was a separate platter with the servo
>> tracks, so it was possible for temperature changes to
>> alter the head positions slightly relative to the data
>> tracks. That is no longer the case, each platter has
>> its own servo information stored.
>
>> > Can the servo writer access all the platters through the
>> > small hole on the side of the drive?
>>
>> Since there is a large hole in the top of the drive until
>> such time as the factory decides to put the lid on that is
>> not an issue. Regardless, there is really no separate
>> "servo-writer" that is inserted into the drive--the heads
>> that are shipped with it are used for servo writing, but
>> positioned by an external device at the factory.
>
> I have to confess ignorance abou HDs and didn't know that
> this was now the practice for servo writing, but I read that
> newer Hitachi-IBM HDs could write their own servos, even
> without external electronics, but I thought the usual practice
> was to insert a servo writer through a hole. I've seen drives
> with a fairly large taped-over hole on the bottom for this,
> but it's usually a small hole on the side. If this hole isn't
> for servo writing, then what is it for?

Probably some inspection or other.

>> > I have problems understanding how thermal calibration
>> > is a bigger benefit when only one platter has a servo
>> > because if each platter expands slightly differently,
>> > how does thermally calibrating against that one servo
>> > improve the calibration of the other platters?
>>
>> You don't "calibrate against that one servo". You calibrate
>> against the data tracks and then use the calculated offset.
>
> Is there an offset because separate heads are used for reads
> and writes?

No, there's an offset because when the temperature changes there are slight
distortions in the mechanism which in a drive with a single set of servo
tracks on a different surface from the data can cause the heads to be
off-center on the data tracks. This is a problem when there is only one
servo track serving several platters, but it is not a problem when the
servo track and the data are interleaved on the same platter as is the
practice on all contemporary drives.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 7:01:13 PM

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Only if you stored it in a freezer at 30 below zero. Think about it, if
it made a real difference you wouldn't be able to boot from the drive
until it warmed UP!

Sandee wrote:

> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let
> the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
> format it?
>
> I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a HDD but
> I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
> temperature.
>
> If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure the blank
> drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably stop
> spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in the drive,
> the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?
>
> BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a load on
> them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by moving
> its actuator arm?
>
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 11:19:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

If this was necessary, the drive might not work when you
turned the computer on every morning. You'd have to let it spin for
15 minutes and then try to boot up.

Sandee wrote:

> If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let
> the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
> format it?
>
> I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a HDD but
> I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
> temperature.
>
> If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure the blank
> drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably stop
> spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in the drive,
> the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?
>
> BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a load on
> them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by moving
> its actuator arm?
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 12:26:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Bob I" <birelan@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:41508889.4090909@yahoo.com...
> Only if you stored it in a freezer at 30 below zero. Think about it, if
> it made a real difference you wouldn't be able to boot from the drive
> until it warmed UP!

Nope, you are confusing daily and usual behavior with margins and an
original format. The question was NOT whether drives were prone to
immediate failure due to temperature change. The question was "If I get a
new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and let the drive
spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I format it?"

The answer to that question "It's certainly not a bad idea."

> Sandee wrote:
>
> > If I get a new hard drive then is it good practise to boot the PC and
let
> > the drive spin for 30 minutes or so in order that it warms up before I
> > format it?
> >
> > I have heard there is something called "thermal recalibration" in a HDD
but
> > I wonder if it is far better to let the drive warm up to a stable
> > temperature.
> >
> > If warming up the HDD is not being too fussy then how do I ensure the
blank
> > drive keeps spinning because I believe that the drive will probably stop
> > spinning after a period of time. Is this spindown period set in the
drive,
> > the BIOS or the operating system (I am using XP)?
> >
> > BTW is there a program (like those for heating up cpus by putting a load
on
> > them) which can keep the HDD spinning and also heats up a new HDD by
moving
> > its actuator arm?
> >
>
September 22, 2004 6:27:22 PM

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On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 19:19:41 GMT, Bennett Price
<bjpriceNOSPAM@itsa.ucsf.edu> wrote:

> If this was necessary, the drive might not work when you
> turned the computer on every morning. You'd have to let it
> spin for 15 minutes and then try to boot up.

There are difference between not working and working near the limit.
!