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I think im being conned!!!

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Anonymous
September 22, 2004 1:55:03 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs with 160
gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o it. But when
I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered 140 Gb. So as
youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained. The man told my
dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But that wouldnt
affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What do
yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the geniuses
apparently lol)

More about : conned

September 22, 2004 4:34:59 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

What they told you is absolutely wrong, hidden files do not reduce the drive
capacity, however this doesn't necessarily mean that they tried to rip you
off.
Drive manufacturers measure their new drives as 1 kilobyte= 1000 bytes
file systems consider a kilobyte = 1024 bytes
This will throw the total capacity off a little, but not 20 gigabytes.
They may not have partitioned the whole drive or put a hidden partition on
the disk. to find out got --control panel--administrative tolls--computer
manager--disk management and look at the physical drives. This will tell
you what the total capacity is.

Vernon Davenport
http://www.vernscomputerservices.com

"JR_004" <JR_004@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:243B03DB-EE46-4FCC-949D-3D47287C2B32@microsoft.com...
> I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs with
160
> gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o it. But
when
> I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered 140 Gb. So
as
> youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained. The man told
my
> dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But that wouldnt
> affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What do
> yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the geniuses
> apparently lol)
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 9/18/2004
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 5:28:43 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"JR_004" <JR_004@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:243B03DB-EE46-4FCC-949D-3D47287C2B32@microsoft.com...
> I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs with 160
> gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o it. But when
> I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered 140 Gb. So as
> youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained. The man told my
> dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But that wouldnt
> affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What do
> yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the geniuses
> apparently lol)
>

A GB according to hard drive manufacturers is 1,000,000,000 bytes.
In most of the rest of the computing world, a GB is 2**30, or
1,073,741,824 bytes. That said, if you look at the "Capacity:"
in the "Local Disk ( ) Properties" dialog box for your hard drive, it
should read a little more than 160,000,000,000 bytes, which is
equivalent to about 149 (manufacturers') GB. If the numbers it
shows for your hard drive are significantly less than those, you've
been had.

-- Bob Day
http://bobday.vze.com
Related resources
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 5:39:12 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Bob Day" <xxxxxxx@yyyyyyy.com> wrote in message
news:o ThTdmMoEHA.4056@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>
> "JR_004" <JR_004@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:243B03DB-EE46-4FCC-949D-3D47287C2B32@microsoft.com...
> > I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs with 160
> > gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o it. But when
> > I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered 140 Gb. So as
> > youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained. The man told
my
> > dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But that wouldnt
> > affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What do
> > yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the geniuses
> > apparently lol)
> >
>
> A GB according to hard drive manufacturers is 1,000,000,000 bytes.
> In most of the rest of the computing world, a GB is 2**30, or
> 1,073,741,824 bytes. That said, if you look at the "Capacity:"
> in the "Local Disk ( ) Properties" dialog box for your hard drive, it
> should read a little more than 160,000,000,000 bytes, which is
> equivalent to about 149 (manufacturers') GB. If the numbers it
> shows for your hard drive are significantly less than those, you've
> been had.
>
> -- Bob Day
> http://bobday.vze.com
>

Correction: that should be 149 ("rest of computer industry") GB.

-- Bob Day
Anonymous
September 22, 2004 6:01:53 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

JR_004 wrote:
> I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs
> with 160 gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the
> hang o it. But when I checked the hard drive capacity in properties
> it registered 140 Gb. So as youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer
> Shop" and complained. The man told my dad that xp took up 15 gig in
> "hidden hard drive space". But that wouldnt affect the capacity of
> the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What do yous think. I
> need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the geniuses
> apparently lol)

Here are the REALISTIC numbers:

Advertised --- Actual Capacity
10GB --- 9.31 GB
20GB --- 18.63 GB
30GB --- 27.94 GB
40GB --- 37.25 GB
60GB --- 55.88 GB
80GB --- 74.51 GB
100GB --- 93.13 GB
120GB --- 111.76 GB
160GB --- 149.01 GB
180GB --- 167.64 GB
200GB --- 186.26 GB
250GB --- 232.83 GB

I think they tried to explain in simplistic terms about overhead and
advertised vs. actual capacity due to different "math" - which is what Bob
Day told you with this statement:

"A GB according to hard drive manufacturers is 1,000,000,000 bytes.
In most of the rest of the computing world, a GB is 2**30, or
1,073,741,824 bytes."

It is also possible they have a 8 to 10GB partition (although that would be
large) set aside for system recoveryt if they installed it. Did they give
you recovery media? If not - the way of restoring the system may be built
into the system in that way. (Not the best way - in my opinion.. Put the
only restoration capability on one of the few critical moving parts on a
computer system..)

--
<- Shenan ->
--
The information is provided "as is", it is suggested you research for
yourself before you take any advice - you are the one ultimately
responsible for your actions/problems/solutions. Know what you are
getting into before you jump in with both feet.
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 12:36:58 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Nothing is missing. It just a 'units' and system overhead issue.

"JR_004" <JR_004@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:243B03DB-EE46-4FCC-949D-3D47287C2B32@microsoft.com...
> I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs with
160
> gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o it. But
when
> I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered 140 Gb. So
as
> youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained. The man told
my
> dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But that wouldnt
> affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What do
> yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the geniuses
> apparently lol)
>
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 12:37:50 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Bob Day" <xxxxxxx@yyyyyyy.com> wrote in message
news:o ThTdmMoEHA.4056@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>
> "JR_004" <JR_004@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:243B03DB-EE46-4FCC-949D-3D47287C2B32@microsoft.com...
> > I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs with
160
> > gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o it. But
when
> > I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered 140 Gb. So
as
> > youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained. The man
told my
> > dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But that
wouldnt
> > affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What
do
> > yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the
geniuses
> > apparently lol)
> >
>
> A GB according to hard drive manufacturers is 1,000,000,000 bytes.

And everyone ELSE in science and engineering since before 1900.

> In most of the rest of the computing world, a GB is 2**30, or
> 1,073,741,824 bytes.

Nope, only in the area of the computing world that relates to binary
addressable entities is that so. In all other areas of computing a
G=1e9,M=1e6 & K=1e3. The bandwidth of the classic PCI bus is
133,333,333.33(classic) MB/sec. and that's true in all other rates and
component specs in computing EXCEPT the size of RAM chips. On the spec
sheet for RAM chips all rates are classic. The IEEE has it right when they
say the correct usage is 1024=Ki, 1024*1024=Mi & 1024*1024*1024=Gi. The
proper definition of kilo(K), mega(M) and giga(G) was well established long
BEFORE computing even existed.

> That said, if you look at the "Capacity:"
> in the "Local Disk ( ) Properties" dialog box for your hard drive, it
> should read a little more than 160,000,000,000 bytes, which is
> equivalent to about 149 (manufacturers') GB. If the numbers it
> shows for your hard drive are significantly less than those, you've
> been had.

Except that they don't make HD of that size.
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 4:24:12 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
news:yol4d.621162$Gx4.505750@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Bob Day" <xxxxxxx@yyyyyyy.com> wrote in message
> news:o ThTdmMoEHA.4056@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> >
> > "JR_004" <JR_004@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:243B03DB-EE46-4FCC-949D-3D47287C2B32@microsoft.com...
> > > I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs with
> 160
> > > gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o it. But
> when
> > > I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered 140 Gb. So
> as
> > > youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained. The man
> told my
> > > dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But that
> wouldnt
> > > affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What
> do
> > > yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the
> geniuses
> > > apparently lol)
> > >
> >
> > A GB according to hard drive manufacturers is 1,000,000,000 bytes.
>
> And everyone ELSE in science and engineering since before 1900.
>
> > In most of the rest of the computing world, a GB is 2**30, or
> > 1,073,741,824 bytes.
>
> Nope, only in the area of the computing world that relates to binary
> addressable entities is that so. In all other areas of computing a
> G=1e9,M=1e6 & K=1e3.

Nope yourself. I was specifically referring to, and mentioned
only, GB or gigabytes, where I believe what I wrote is true.

> The bandwidth of the classic PCI bus is
> 133,333,333.33(classic) MB/sec.

That would be 133.33333333 MHz, I believe. The bandwidth at
that rate can be a whole lotta different things.

-- Bob Day
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 9:06:29 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Bob Day" <xxxxxxx@yyyyyyy.com> wrote in message
news:eGFsxUSoEHA.2852@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>
> "Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
> news:yol4d.621162$Gx4.505750@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > "Bob Day" <xxxxxxx@yyyyyyy.com> wrote in message
> > news:o ThTdmMoEHA.4056@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > >
> > > "JR_004" <JR_004@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > > news:243B03DB-EE46-4FCC-949D-3D47287C2B32@microsoft.com...
> > > > I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs
with
> > 160
> > > > gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o it.
But
> > when
> > > > I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered 140
Gb. So
> > as
> > > > youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained. The
man
> > told my
> > > > dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But that
> > wouldnt
> > > > affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties tab.
What
> > do
> > > > yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the
> > geniuses
> > > > apparently lol)
> > > >
> > >
> > > A GB according to hard drive manufacturers is 1,000,000,000 bytes.
> >
> > And everyone ELSE in science and engineering since before 1900.
> >
> > > In most of the rest of the computing world, a GB is 2**30, or
> > > 1,073,741,824 bytes.
> >
> > Nope, only in the area of the computing world that relates to binary
> > addressable entities is that so. In all other areas of computing a
> > G=1e9,M=1e6 & K=1e3.
>
> Nope yourself. I was specifically referring to, and mentioned
> only, GB or gigabytes, where I believe what I wrote is true.

NOPE, all rates in computers are in classic fashion 10MB/sec. means
10,000,000 bytes per second. 10MB/sec. meaning 10,000,000 bytes per second
and is the correct usage of M. And 1GB/sec. means 1,000,000,000 bytes per
sec. and is the correct usage of G.

Popular but incorrect usage is to say that one's compter has 256MB memory.
The correct but little used but IEEE way is to say that your PC has 256MiB
RAM.

The HD mfg's got it right by specifying storage size the way they do. Some
app and OS writers got it WRONG and early/sloppy computer geeks should be
ashamed.

> > The bandwidth of the classic PCI bus is
> > 133,333,333.33(classic) MB/sec.
>
> That would be 133.33333333 MHz, I believe.

Nope, the classic PCI bus is 4 bytes wide and clocks at 33.33 MHz. That
gives a peak busrt rate of .1333333 GB/sec or 133,333,333.33 bytes per
second or 133.33 MB/sec.

The computer industry because of early sloppyness has made a mess of things.

The only folks who use the 1024 meaning of K are programmers and it has no
use for ordinary computer users. I don't understand why we all can't just
decide to drop the early computereeze atrocity.

K kilo means 1000 and always has and always will. My .1% 1K resistor had
1000 ohms in 1960 and it still does today. It didn't suddenly decide to
have 1024 ohms.
Anonymous
September 23, 2004 2:37:39 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
news:p Rs4d.622557$Gx4.152330@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Bob Day" <xxxxxxx@yyyyyyy.com> wrote in message
> news:eGFsxUSoEHA.2852@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> >
> > "Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
> > news:yol4d.621162$Gx4.505750@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > >
> > > "Bob Day" <xxxxxxx@yyyyyyy.com> wrote in message
> > > news:o ThTdmMoEHA.4056@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > >
> > > > "JR_004" <JR_004@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:243B03DB-EE46-4FCC-949D-3D47287C2B32@microsoft.com...
> > > > > I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs
> with
> > > 160
> > > > > gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o it.
> But
> > > when
> > > > > I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered 140
> Gb. So
> > > as
> > > > > youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained. The
> man
> > > told my
> > > > > dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But that
> > > wouldnt
> > > > > affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties tab.
> What
> > > do
> > > > > yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the
> > > geniuses
> > > > > apparently lol)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > A GB according to hard drive manufacturers is 1,000,000,000 bytes.
> > >
> > > And everyone ELSE in science and engineering since before 1900.
> > >
> > > > In most of the rest of the computing world, a GB is 2**30, or
> > > > 1,073,741,824 bytes.
> > >
> > > Nope, only in the area of the computing world that relates to binary
> > > addressable entities is that so. In all other areas of computing a
> > > G=1e9,M=1e6 & K=1e3.
> >
> > Nope yourself. I was specifically referring to, and mentioned
> > only, GB or gigabytes, where I believe what I wrote is true.
>
> NOPE, all rates in computers are in classic fashion 10MB/sec. means
> 10,000,000 bytes per second. 10MB/sec. meaning 10,000,000 bytes per second
> and is the correct usage of M. And 1GB/sec. means 1,000,000,000 bytes per
> sec. and is the correct usage of G.
>

Nope once again. You are confusing rates with bytes. When
the term GB (gigabytes) stands alone, in the computer world
it generally means 2^30 (except for hardware retailers). Rates
are another matter. It's a confusing world. Reality is that way.

> Popular but incorrect usage is to say that one's compter has 256MB memory.

Nope, it's popular and correct. If you multiply 256 by 1,000,000,
you'll get the wrong answer for the number of bytes of memory
you have.

> The correct but little used but IEEE way is to say that your PC has 256MiB
> RAM.
>

That would just add to the confusion.

> The HD mfg's got it right by specifying storage size the way they do. Some
> app and OS writers got it WRONG and early/sloppy computer geeks should be
> ashamed.
>
> > > The bandwidth of the classic PCI bus is
> > > 133,333,333.33(classic) MB/sec.
> >
> > That would be 133.33333333 MHz, I believe.
>
> Nope, the classic PCI bus is 4 bytes wide and clocks at 33.33 MHz. That
> gives a peak busrt rate of .1333333 GB/sec or 133,333,333.33 bytes per
> second or 133.33 MB/sec.
>

Note that you said "133,333,333.33(classic) MB/sec" previously
(see 10 lines above). Also, 'classic' is a slippery word, and you
didn't define it.

>
> The computer industry because of early sloppyness has made a mess of things.
>
> The only folks who use the 1024 meaning of K are programmers and it has no
> use for ordinary computer users. I don't understand why we all can't just
> decide to drop the early computereeze atrocity.

Because it has become too ingrained in our culture. Get used to it.

I'm not out to start a "thread war" here, so this will probably be
my last post in this thread.

-- Bob Day
Anonymous
September 24, 2004 12:33:35 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Bob Day" <xxxxxxx@yyyyyyy.com> wrote in message
news:uJEnjrXoEHA.3988@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>
> "Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
> news:p Rs4d.622557$Gx4.152330@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > "Bob Day" <xxxxxxx@yyyyyyy.com> wrote in message
> > news:eGFsxUSoEHA.2852@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > >
> > > "Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
> > > news:yol4d.621162$Gx4.505750@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > >
> > > > "Bob Day" <xxxxxxx@yyyyyyy.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:o ThTdmMoEHA.4056@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > > > >
> > > > > "JR_004" <JR_004@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:243B03DB-EE46-4FCC-949D-3D47287C2B32@microsoft.com...
> > > > > > I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top
specs
> > with
> > > > 160
> > > > > > gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o
it.
> > But
> > > > when
> > > > > > I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered
140
> > Gb. So
> > > > as
> > > > > > youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained.
The
> > man
> > > > told my
> > > > > > dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But
that
> > > > wouldnt
> > > > > > affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties
tab.
> > What
> > > > do
> > > > > > yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr
the
> > > > geniuses
> > > > > > apparently lol)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > A GB according to hard drive manufacturers is 1,000,000,000 bytes.
> > > >
> > > > And everyone ELSE in science and engineering since before 1900.
> > > >
> > > > > In most of the rest of the computing world, a GB is 2**30, or
> > > > > 1,073,741,824 bytes.
> > > >
> > > > Nope, only in the area of the computing world that relates to
binary
> > > > addressable entities is that so. In all other areas of computing a
> > > > G=1e9,M=1e6 & K=1e3.
> > >
> > > Nope yourself. I was specifically referring to, and mentioned
> > > only, GB or gigabytes, where I believe what I wrote is true.
> >
> > NOPE, all rates in computers are in classic fashion 10MB/sec. means
> > 10,000,000 bytes per second. 10MB/sec. meaning 10,000,000 bytes per
second
> > and is the correct usage of M. And 1GB/sec. means 1,000,000,000 bytes
per
> > sec. and is the correct usage of G.
> >
>
> Nope once again.

Wrong again.

>You are confusing rates with bytes.

Bytes nor rates have anything to do with the issue at hand. The issue is
the definition of K, M & G.

> When
> the term GB (gigabytes) stands alone, in the computer world
> it generally means 2^30 (except for hardware retailers).

Defines "stands alone". As I've already shown that is only half true.

> Rates
> are another matter.

My how convenient to ignore half of reality.

> It's a confusing world. Reality is that way.
>
> > Popular but incorrect usage is to say that one's compter has 256MB
memory.
>
> Nope, it's popular and correct.

Wrong again. Popular and INCORRECT.

> If you multiply 256 by 1,000,000,
> you'll get the wrong answer for the number of bytes of memory
> you have.

Yep but then that proves MY point.

> > The correct but little used but IEEE way is to say that your PC has
256MiB
> > RAM.
> >
>
> That would just add to the confusion.

Only for the clueless.

> > The HD mfg's got it right by specifying storage size the way they do.
Some
> > app and OS writers got it WRONG and early/sloppy computer geeks should
be
> > ashamed.
> >
> > > > The bandwidth of the classic PCI bus is
> > > > 133,333,333.33(classic) MB/sec.
> > >
> > > That would be 133.33333333 MHz, I believe.
> >
> > Nope, the classic PCI bus is 4 bytes wide and clocks at 33.33 MHz.
That
> > gives a peak busrt rate of .1333333 GB/sec or 133,333,333.33 bytes per
> > second or 133.33 MB/sec.
> >
>
> Note that you said "133,333,333.33(classic) MB/sec" previously
> (see 10 lines above). Also, 'classic' is a slippery word, and you
> didn't define it.

Nice try at the slight of hand but the thread is there for anyone to read
for themselves.
I got it right and you didn't even know the bandwidth of a PCI bus.

> > The computer industry because of early sloppyness has made a mess of
things.
> >
> > The only folks who use the 1024 meaning of K are programmers and it has
no
> > use for ordinary computer users. I don't understand why we all can't
just
> > decide to drop the early computereeze atrocity.
>
> Because it has become too ingrained in our culture. Get used to it.
>
> I'm not out to start a "thread war" here, so this will probably be
> my last post in this thread.

Smart move.
Anonymous
September 24, 2004 10:20:03 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

JR_004 wrote:

> I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs with 160
> gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o it. But when
> I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered 140 Gb. So as
> youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained. The man told my
> dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But that wouldnt
> affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What do
> yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the geniuses
> apparently lol)
>

As others have said, there are two sets of definitions for KB/MB/GB/etc. --
and both are used for HDs. In Explorer, if you right-click on a HD then
click on Properties, Windows will show the size of that HD using *both*
definitions, so you can argue with "The Computer Shop" using unambiguous
data. And, by looking only at the bottom (Capacity) line, there will be
no confusion caused by hidden files and the like.

This PC's Boot HD, for example, shows a capacity of:

- 74,340,044,800 bytes (a 74GB HD, with a 0.34GB bonus)

- 69.2 GB (meaning about 69.2*1024*1024*1024 bytes)

While I wish that M$ used the same definitions for HD sizes that HD vendors
use, I applaud M$'s double listing of HD capacity under a HD's properties.
--
Cheers, Bob
Anonymous
September 24, 2004 12:36:29 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

There wasn't really any sloppyness in early computing. Programmers like even
numbers too. The difference comes in whether you are looking at the numbers
in Binary or Decimal. Put 1024 in Decimal in Calculator and then switch to
Binary. You will get a nice even number. :) 

Joshua Smith
DirectInput and OpenGL Test Labs
Microsoft
-----

Get Secure! www.microsoft.com/security

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights



"Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
news:zqG4d.420234$OB3.173410@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Bob Day" <xxxxxxx@yyyyyyy.com> wrote in message
> news:uJEnjrXoEHA.3988@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>
>> "Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
>> news:p Rs4d.622557$Gx4.152330@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> >
>> > "Bob Day" <xxxxxxx@yyyyyyy.com> wrote in message
>> > news:eGFsxUSoEHA.2852@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> > >
>> > > "Ron Reaugh" <rondashreaugh@att.net> wrote in message
>> > > news:yol4d.621162$Gx4.505750@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> > > >
>> > > > "Bob Day" <xxxxxxx@yyyyyyy.com> wrote in message
>> > > > news:o ThTdmMoEHA.4056@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "JR_004" <JR_004@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> > > > > news:243B03DB-EE46-4FCC-949D-3D47287C2B32@microsoft.com...
>> > > > > > I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top
> specs
>> > with
>> > > > 160
>> > > > > > gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o
> it.
>> > But
>> > > > when
>> > > > > > I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered
> 140
>> > Gb. So
>> > > > as
>> > > > > > youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained.
> The
>> > man
>> > > > told my
>> > > > > > dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But
> that
>> > > > wouldnt
>> > > > > > affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties
> tab.
>> > What
>> > > > do
>> > > > > > yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr
> the
>> > > > geniuses
>> > > > > > apparently lol)
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > A GB according to hard drive manufacturers is 1,000,000,000
>> > > > > bytes.
>> > > >
>> > > > And everyone ELSE in science and engineering since before 1900.
>> > > >
>> > > > > In most of the rest of the computing world, a GB is 2**30, or
>> > > > > 1,073,741,824 bytes.
>> > > >
>> > > > Nope, only in the area of the computing world that relates to
> binary
>> > > > addressable entities is that so. In all other areas of computing a
>> > > > G=1e9,M=1e6 & K=1e3.
>> > >
>> > > Nope yourself. I was specifically referring to, and mentioned
>> > > only, GB or gigabytes, where I believe what I wrote is true.
>> >
>> > NOPE, all rates in computers are in classic fashion 10MB/sec. means
>> > 10,000,000 bytes per second. 10MB/sec. meaning 10,000,000 bytes per
> second
>> > and is the correct usage of M. And 1GB/sec. means 1,000,000,000 bytes
> per
>> > sec. and is the correct usage of G.
>> >
>>
>> Nope once again.
>
> Wrong again.
>
>>You are confusing rates with bytes.
>
> Bytes nor rates have anything to do with the issue at hand. The issue is
> the definition of K, M & G.
>
>> When
>> the term GB (gigabytes) stands alone, in the computer world
>> it generally means 2^30 (except for hardware retailers).
>
> Defines "stands alone". As I've already shown that is only half true.
>
>> Rates
>> are another matter.
>
> My how convenient to ignore half of reality.
>
>> It's a confusing world. Reality is that way.
>>
>> > Popular but incorrect usage is to say that one's compter has 256MB
> memory.
>>
>> Nope, it's popular and correct.
>
> Wrong again. Popular and INCORRECT.
>
>> If you multiply 256 by 1,000,000,
>> you'll get the wrong answer for the number of bytes of memory
>> you have.
>
> Yep but then that proves MY point.
>
>> > The correct but little used but IEEE way is to say that your PC has
> 256MiB
>> > RAM.
>> >
>>
>> That would just add to the confusion.
>
> Only for the clueless.
>
>> > The HD mfg's got it right by specifying storage size the way they do.
> Some
>> > app and OS writers got it WRONG and early/sloppy computer geeks should
> be
>> > ashamed.
>> >
>> > > > The bandwidth of the classic PCI bus is
>> > > > 133,333,333.33(classic) MB/sec.
>> > >
>> > > That would be 133.33333333 MHz, I believe.
>> >
>> > Nope, the classic PCI bus is 4 bytes wide and clocks at 33.33 MHz.
> That
>> > gives a peak busrt rate of .1333333 GB/sec or 133,333,333.33 bytes per
>> > second or 133.33 MB/sec.
>> >
>>
>> Note that you said "133,333,333.33(classic) MB/sec" previously
>> (see 10 lines above). Also, 'classic' is a slippery word, and you
>> didn't define it.
>
> Nice try at the slight of hand but the thread is there for anyone to read
> for themselves.
> I got it right and you didn't even know the bandwidth of a PCI bus.
>
>> > The computer industry because of early sloppyness has made a mess of
> things.
>> >
>> > The only folks who use the 1024 meaning of K are programmers and it has
> no
>> > use for ordinary computer users. I don't understand why we all can't
> just
>> > decide to drop the early computereeze atrocity.
>>
>> Because it has become too ingrained in our culture. Get used to it.
>>
>> I'm not out to start a "thread war" here, so this will probably be
>> my last post in this thread.
>
> Smart move.
>
>
Anonymous
September 26, 2004 2:19:03 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

My 120GB drives show as 115GB in the drives properties - I don't think and
extra 40 GB shouyld lead to another 15GB difference!

"JR_004" wrote:

> I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs with 160
> gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the hang o it. But when
> I checked the hard drive capacity in properties it registered 140 Gb. So as
> youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer Shop" and complained. The man told my
> dad that xp took up 15 gig in "hidden hard drive space". But that wouldnt
> affect the capacity of the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What do
> yous think. I need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the geniuses
> apparently lol)
>
Anonymous
September 26, 2004 4:24:11 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

JR_004 wrote:
> I bought a PC from The Computer shop. (I thought Great!!) Top specs
> with 160 gig hard drive. When i got it it took a while to get the
> hang o it. But when I checked the hard drive capacity in properties
> it registered 140 Gb. So as youd expect my dad phoned "The Computer
> Shop" and complained. The man told my dad that xp took up 15 gig in
> "hidden hard drive space". But that wouldnt affect the capacity of
> the hard drive stats on the properties tab. What do yous think. I
> need some backup before i confromt them. (Theyr the geniuses
> apparently lol)

mad_tunes wrote:
> My 120GB drives show as 115GB in the drives properties - I don't
> think and extra 40 GB shouyld lead to another 15GB difference!

mad_tunes,

Here are your realistic and actual numbers...

Advertised --- Actual Capacity
10GB --- 9.31 GB
20GB --- 18.63 GB
30GB --- 27.94 GB
40GB --- 37.25 GB
60GB --- 55.88 GB
80GB --- 74.51 GB
100GB --- 93.13 GB
120GB --- 111.76 GB
160GB --- 149.01 GB
180GB --- 167.64 GB
200GB --- 186.26 GB
250GB --- 232.83 GB

--
<- Shenan ->
--
The information is provided "as is", it is suggested you research for
yourself before you take any advice - you are the one ultimately
responsible for your actions/problems/solutions. Know what you are
getting into before you jump in with both feet.
!