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Bad Caps

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Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 1, 2004 9:06:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.elitegroup (More info?)

Anyone has experience with having bad capacitors on their ECS P4VMM2
motherboard?

After 23 months of 24-7 non-stop crunching "SETI at home", mine just died
one day all of a sudden two weeks ago. It just lost all power, and refused
to power up again. At first I thought it must be the power supply, but I
soon found out it was worse. By elimination, everything else (power supply,
DRAM, drives, LAN card) checked out fine. The DRAM checked out OK in another
system. The power supply checked out fine in another system as well as fine
according to a multimeter.

So I took the motherboard out of the case and tested it on a wooden bench.
There is a distinct short on the motherboard somewhere. I won't bore you
with the rest of the details of how I troubleshot (but suffice it to say
that I have an electronics engineering degree). Dead CPU or dead
motherboard? Well, the CPU and the drives all tested fine with another
motherboard. I concluded that I have one very dead motherboard on hand!

I began examining the dead motherboard more closely. None of the capacitors
seems to be leaking, but the nine 3300uF electrolytic caps are all bulging
at the top, and there is a distinct odor coming from them. I did the
standard testing routines (crude, I know) on these caps using my multimeter,
and I noticed that their resistance did not steadily rise to "infinite"
ohm--which they were supposed to. All of them settled at about 29.7 ohm in
one direction, and only 27.6 ohm in the other direction! They did not even
get into the kilo-ohm range!

So now I have an expensive dead toy to improve on my soldering skills, :-)

More about : bad caps

Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 1, 2004 9:06:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.elitegroup (More info?)

What is the brand name on the caps?

--
Best regards,
Kyle
"alpha_uma" <none_such@home.com> wrote in message
news:%YMEc.954309$oR5.954302@pd7tw3no...
| Anyone has experience with having bad capacitors on their ECS P4VMM2
| motherboard?
|
| After 23 months of 24-7 non-stop crunching "SETI at home", mine just
died
| one day all of a sudden two weeks ago. It just lost all power, and
refused
| to power up again. At first I thought it must be the power supply,
but I
| soon found out it was worse. By elimination, everything else (power
supply,
| DRAM, drives, LAN card) checked out fine. The DRAM checked out OK in
another
| system. The power supply checked out fine in another system as well
as fine
| according to a multimeter.
|
| So I took the motherboard out of the case and tested it on a wooden
bench.
| There is a distinct short on the motherboard somewhere. I won't bore
you
| with the rest of the details of how I troubleshot (but suffice it to
say
| that I have an electronics engineering degree). Dead CPU or dead
| motherboard? Well, the CPU and the drives all tested fine with
another
| motherboard. I concluded that I have one very dead motherboard on
hand!
|
| I began examining the dead motherboard more closely. None of the
capacitors
| seems to be leaking, but the nine 3300uF electrolytic caps are all
bulging
| at the top, and there is a distinct odor coming from them. I did the
| standard testing routines (crude, I know) on these caps using my
multimeter,
| and I noticed that their resistance did not steadily rise to
"infinite"
| ohm--which they were supposed to. All of them settled at about 29.7
ohm in
| one direction, and only 27.6 ohm in the other direction! They did
not even
| get into the kilo-ohm range!
|
| So now I have an expensive dead toy to improve on my soldering
skills, :-)
|
|
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 1, 2004 10:43:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.elitegroup (More info?)

I don't know if the marking is the brand name or not, but with the help of a
magnifying glass, it says "OST I.Q."

"Kylesb" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2khnvaF2e3sqU1@uni-berlin.de...
> What is the brand name on the caps?
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Kyle
> "alpha_uma" <none_such@home.com> wrote in message
> news:%YMEc.954309$oR5.954302@pd7tw3no...
> | Anyone has experience with having bad capacitors on their ECS P4VMM2
> | motherboard?
> |
> | After 23 months of 24-7 non-stop crunching "SETI at home", mine just
> died
> | one day all of a sudden two weeks ago. It just lost all power, and
> refused
> | to power up again. At first I thought it must be the power supply,
> but I
> | soon found out it was worse. By elimination, everything else (power
> supply,
> | DRAM, drives, LAN card) checked out fine. The DRAM checked out OK in
> another
> | system. The power supply checked out fine in another system as well
> as fine
> | according to a multimeter.
> |
> | So I took the motherboard out of the case and tested it on a wooden
> bench.
> | There is a distinct short on the motherboard somewhere. I won't bore
> you
> | with the rest of the details of how I troubleshot (but suffice it to
> say
> | that I have an electronics engineering degree). Dead CPU or dead
> | motherboard? Well, the CPU and the drives all tested fine with
> another
> | motherboard. I concluded that I have one very dead motherboard on
> hand!
> |
> | I began examining the dead motherboard more closely. None of the
> capacitors
> | seems to be leaking, but the nine 3300uF electrolytic caps are all
> bulging
> | at the top, and there is a distinct odor coming from them. I did the
> | standard testing routines (crude, I know) on these caps using my
> multimeter,
> | and I noticed that their resistance did not steadily rise to
> "infinite"
> | ohm--which they were supposed to. All of them settled at about 29.7
> ohm in
> | one direction, and only 27.6 ohm in the other direction! They did
> not even
> | get into the kilo-ohm range!
> |
> | So now I have an expensive dead toy to improve on my soldering
> skills, :-)
> |
> |
>
Related resources
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 1, 2004 3:04:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.elitegroup (More info?)

alpha_uma wrote:

> Anyone has experience with having bad capacitors on their ECS P4VMM2
> motherboard?
>
> After 23 months of 24-7 non-stop crunching "SETI at home", mine just died
> one day all of a sudden two weeks ago. It just lost all power, and refused
> to power up again. At first I thought it must be the power supply, but I
> soon found out it was worse. By elimination, everything else (power
> supply, DRAM, drives, LAN card) checked out fine. The DRAM checked out OK
> in another system. The power supply checked out fine in another system as
> well as fine according to a multimeter.
>
> So I took the motherboard out of the case and tested it on a wooden bench.
> There is a distinct short on the motherboard somewhere. I won't bore you
> with the rest of the details of how I troubleshot (but suffice it to say
> that I have an electronics engineering degree). Dead CPU or dead
> motherboard? Well, the CPU and the drives all tested fine with another
> motherboard. I concluded that I have one very dead motherboard on hand!
>
> I began examining the dead motherboard more closely. None of the
> capacitors seems to be leaking, but the nine 3300uF electrolytic caps are
> all bulging at the top, and there is a distinct odor coming from them. I
> did the standard testing routines (crude, I know) on these caps using my
> multimeter, and I noticed that their resistance did not steadily rise to
> "infinite" ohm--which they were supposed to. All of them settled at about
> 29.7 ohm in one direction, and only 27.6 ohm in the other direction! They
> did not even get into the kilo-ohm range!
>
> So now I have an expensive dead toy to improve on my soldering skills, :-)

I had the same problem with a K7S5A v3.1. I bought it two years ago, and it
started acting funny (random reboots) with no explanation. The Caps. near
the RAM were all shot. I thought about replacing...as I am a EE also, but
decided not to wait, and bought a K7S5A Pro v5.0 for about $35...


--
Kirbalo...

K7S5A Pro, Athlon XP 1600+
1 Gig DDR, 120 GB, nVidia GeForce 4 MX 440
SuSE Linux 9.0 Pro & XP Pro Dual Boot
Linux 2.4.21-226-athlon
11:02am up 10 days 23:05, 4 users, load average: 1.01, 1.03, 1.09
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 1, 2004 3:29:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.elitegroup (More info?)

alpha_uma wrote:

> Anyone has experience with having bad capacitors on their ECS P4VMM2
> motherboard?
>
> After 23 months of 24-7 non-stop crunching "SETI at home", mine just died
> one day all of a sudden two weeks ago. It just lost all power, and refused
> to power up again. At first I thought it must be the power supply, but I
> soon found out it was worse. By elimination, everything else (power
> supply, DRAM, drives, LAN card) checked out fine. The DRAM checked out OK
> in another system. The power supply checked out fine in another system as
> well as fine according to a multimeter.
>
> So I took the motherboard out of the case and tested it on a wooden bench.
> There is a distinct short on the motherboard somewhere. I won't bore you
> with the rest of the details of how I troubleshot (but suffice it to say
> that I have an electronics engineering degree). Dead CPU or dead
> motherboard? Well, the CPU and the drives all tested fine with another
> motherboard. I concluded that I have one very dead motherboard on hand!
>
> I began examining the dead motherboard more closely. None of the
> capacitors seems to be leaking, but the nine 3300uF electrolytic caps are
> all bulging at the top, and there is a distinct odor coming from them. I
> did the standard testing routines (crude, I know) on these caps using my
> multimeter, and I noticed that their resistance did not steadily rise to
> "infinite" ohm--which they were supposed to. All of them settled at about
> 29.7 ohm in one direction, and only 27.6 ohm in the other direction! They
> did not even get into the kilo-ohm range!
>
> So now I have an expensive dead toy to improve on my soldering skills, :-)

I had the same problem with a K7S5A v3.1.  I bought it two years ago, and it
started acting funny (random reboots) with no explanation.  The Caps. near
the RAM were all shot.  I thought about replacing...as I am a EE also, but
decided not to wait, and bought a K7S5A Pro v5.0 for about $35...

--
Kirbalo...

K7S5A Pro, Athlon XP 1600+
1 Gig DDR, 120 GB, nVidia GeForce 4 MX 440
SuSE Linux 9.0 Pro & XP Pro Dual Boot
Linux 2.4.21-226-athlon
11:29am up 10 days 23:32, 4 users, load average: 1.08, 1.07, 1.08
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 1, 2004 4:53:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.elitegroup (More info?)

"alpha_uma" <none_such@home.com> wrote in message news:<%YMEc.954309$oR5.954302@pd7tw3no>...

> I began examining the dead motherboard more closely. None of
> the capacitors seems to be leaking, but the nine 3300uF
> electrolytic caps are all bulging at the top, and there
> is a distinct odor coming from them. I did the standard
> testing routines (crude, I know) on these caps using my
> multimeter, and I noticed that their resistance did not
> steadily rise to "infinite" ohm--which they were supposed
> to. All of them settled at about 29.7 ohm in one direction,
> and only 27.6 ohm in the other direction! They did not even
> get into the kilo-ohm range!
>
> So now I have an expensive dead toy to improve on my soldering skills, :-)

The caps in the switching regulator circuits often go bad, but the
bypass caps around the rest of the board rarely fail. The usual
ohmmeter test will miss a high percentage of bad caps, as will a
capacitance meter. You need an ESR meter to really sort the good caps
from the bad, but if you have a scope you an use its square wave probe
calibration source and a high-value resistor in series because an
ideal cap will give a ramp that starts at 0V, while the ram will start
much higher with a bad cap (unless it's shorted). Compare with known
good caps of similar capacitance and voltage to see just how high is
acceptable.

Any low-ESR electrolytics (made for high frequency) will do, but try
to get something Japanese, such as from www.digikey.com,
www.mouser.com, or www.bdent.com. Check diameters because most
motherboards have no room for caps even slightly larger than the
originals. If you haven't done much desoldering, realize that
4-6-layer boards need as much as 50W of power to melt solder attached
to ground and power planes. If you don't have access to a desoldering
iron with an electric vacuum pump, use narrow copper desoldering
braid, not a suction pump or plunger, or cut the caps off on top so
their leads can be desoldered individually.
July 2, 2004 2:01:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.elitegroup (More info?)

Same here with a K7S5A.Two years seems to be the bulge time.Replaced it with
a Pro for $40.Hope to get 2 more.

"alpha_uma" <none_such@home.com> wrote in message
news:%YMEc.954309$oR5.954302@pd7tw3no...
> Anyone has experience with having bad capacitors on their ECS P4VMM2
> motherboard?
>
> After 23 months of 24-7 non-stop crunching "SETI at home", mine just died
> one day all of a sudden two weeks ago. It just lost all power, and refused
> to power up again. At first I thought it must be the power supply, but I
> soon found out it was worse. By elimination, everything else (power
supply,
> DRAM, drives, LAN card) checked out fine. The DRAM checked out OK in
another
> system. The power supply checked out fine in another system as well as
fine
> according to a multimeter.
>
> So I took the motherboard out of the case and tested it on a wooden bench.
> There is a distinct short on the motherboard somewhere. I won't bore you
> with the rest of the details of how I troubleshot (but suffice it to say
> that I have an electronics engineering degree). Dead CPU or dead
> motherboard? Well, the CPU and the drives all tested fine with another
> motherboard. I concluded that I have one very dead motherboard on hand!
>
> I began examining the dead motherboard more closely. None of the
capacitors
> seems to be leaking, but the nine 3300uF electrolytic caps are all bulging
> at the top, and there is a distinct odor coming from them. I did the
> standard testing routines (crude, I know) on these caps using my
multimeter,
> and I noticed that their resistance did not steadily rise to "infinite"
> ohm--which they were supposed to. All of them settled at about 29.7 ohm in
> one direction, and only 27.6 ohm in the other direction! They did not even
> get into the kilo-ohm range!
>
> So now I have an expensive dead toy to improve on my soldering skills, :-)
>
>
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 2, 2004 2:48:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.elitegroup (More info?)

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 05:06:03 GMT, "alpha_uma" <none_such@home.com>
wrote:

>
>So now I have an expensive dead toy to improve on my soldering skills, :-)

Unfortunately this is a common problem with caps made from Taiwan. A
few years ago someone stole the plan to make high frequency caps from
a Chinese factory (or maybe Japanese?) but the plan was incomplete.
It didn't have the proper solution recipe so caps tended to dry out
more easily than a properly made caps.

A lot of mobos and power supply made a few years ago are failing if
they haven't failed already. Caps even can leak and cause serious
problem.
--
To reply, replace digi.mon with tds.net
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 5, 2004 3:17:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.elitegroup (More info?)

"alpha_uma" <none_such@home.com> wrote in message
news:%YMEc.954309$oR5.954302@pd7tw3no...
> Anyone has experience with having bad capacitors on their ECS P4VMM2
> motherboard?
>
> After 23 months of 24-7 non-stop crunching "SETI at home", mine just died
> one day all of a sudden two weeks ago. It just lost all power, and refused
> to power up again. At first I thought it must be the power supply, but I
> soon found out it was worse. By elimination, everything else (power
supply,
> DRAM, drives, LAN card) checked out fine. The DRAM checked out OK in
another
> system. The power supply checked out fine in another system as well as
fine
> according to a multimeter.
>
> So I took the motherboard out of the case and tested it on a wooden bench.
> There is a distinct short on the motherboard somewhere. I won't bore you
> with the rest of the details of how I troubleshot (but suffice it to say
> that I have an electronics engineering degree). Dead CPU or dead
> motherboard? Well, the CPU and the drives all tested fine with another
> motherboard. I concluded that I have one very dead motherboard on hand!
>
> I began examining the dead motherboard more closely. None of the
capacitors
> seems to be leaking, but the nine 3300uF electrolytic caps are all bulging
> at the top, and there is a distinct odor coming from them. I did the
> standard testing routines (crude, I know) on these caps using my
multimeter,
> and I noticed that their resistance did not steadily rise to "infinite"
> ohm--which they were supposed to. All of them settled at about 29.7 ohm in
> one direction, and only 27.6 ohm in the other direction! They did not even
> get into the kilo-ohm range!
>
> So now I have an expensive dead toy to improve on my soldering skills, :-)
>
>
Just a thoughtful hope: might your mobo still be under warranty? HTH, s
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 6, 2004 8:25:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.elitegroup (More info?)

"sdlomi2" <sdlomi2spamfree@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10eis7c9sjdo45e@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "alpha_uma" <none_such@home.com> wrote in message
> news:%YMEc.954309$oR5.954302@pd7tw3no...
> > <snip>
> > So now I have an expensive dead toy to improve on my soldering skills,
:-)
> >
> Just a thoughtful hope: might your mobo still be under warranty? HTH,
s

I don't know. Perhaps I should call ECS to find out. But on second thought,
even if I were to send the board back to them for service, it is very likely
that they would replace the dead caps with equally "weak" caps (read: they
may still have Chinese-made caps in their SERVICE stock--defective caps made
with the notoriously incomplete chemical formula from the "Bad Caps Fiasco"
widely reported on the grapevines about two or three years back).

Another thing is that other caps on the motherboard are rated at 10V or
higher. The 3300uF are the only ones that are completely dead, and they are
rated at only 6V. If I replace them myself, I will try to use caps which are
made in N. America or Germany and rated at a higher voltage--if I can find
them, that is.

Is there a difference between a "thoughtful hope" and a "hopeful thought",
:-) ?
Al-U
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 8, 2004 3:57:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.elitegroup (More info?)

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 09:10:20 -0500, "TX_Dude" <ric.duncan@verizon.net>
wrote:

>Warranty? ECS?
>Good luck on that one!
>The ECS warranty is only as good as the vendor you bought it from.
>Try and get an RMA from ECS directly.

After 23 months, I would think it'd be better to just junk the mobo
and get a new one.
--
To reply, replace digi.mon with tds.net
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
a b V Motherboard
July 14, 2004 3:57:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.elitegroup (More info?)

This was an issue and has been resolved with the newer boards.


Hope this helps.
The Tech Support Guy

www.ComputerRelative.com



"alpha_uma" <none_such@home.com> wrote in message
news:%YMEc.954309$oR5.954302@pd7tw3no...
> Anyone has experience with having bad capacitors on their ECS P4VMM2
> motherboard?
>
> After 23 months of 24-7 non-stop crunching "SETI at home", mine just died
> one day all of a sudden two weeks ago. It just lost all power, and refused
> to power up again. At first I thought it must be the power supply, but I
> soon found out it was worse. By elimination, everything else (power
supply,
> DRAM, drives, LAN card) checked out fine. The DRAM checked out OK in
another
> system. The power supply checked out fine in another system as well as
fine
> according to a multimeter.
>
> So I took the motherboard out of the case and tested it on a wooden bench.
> There is a distinct short on the motherboard somewhere. I won't bore you
> with the rest of the details of how I troubleshot (but suffice it to say
> that I have an electronics engineering degree). Dead CPU or dead
> motherboard? Well, the CPU and the drives all tested fine with another
> motherboard. I concluded that I have one very dead motherboard on hand!
>
> I began examining the dead motherboard more closely. None of the
capacitors
> seems to be leaking, but the nine 3300uF electrolytic caps are all bulging
> at the top, and there is a distinct odor coming from them. I did the
> standard testing routines (crude, I know) on these caps using my
multimeter,
> and I noticed that their resistance did not steadily rise to "infinite"
> ohm--which they were supposed to. All of them settled at about 29.7 ohm in
> one direction, and only 27.6 ohm in the other direction! They did not even
> get into the kilo-ohm range!
>
> So now I have an expensive dead toy to improve on my soldering skills, :-)
>
>
!