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Partitioning for XP & Linux, How Much for What?

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Anonymous
October 5, 2004 1:57:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

I'm setting up a new boot drive of 120 GB (and I'm also going to have an
80 GB, but there's already stuff on that), and I intend to use XP Home
as my main OS. But I also want to learn this Linux thing I've been
hearing about, so I want to make a separate partition for that.

So what's the best way to partition the 120 GB HD? I assume three
partitions:
one for the XP OS,
one for Linux, and
one for documents and programs? Should this be separated into two
partitions?

How much space should I allocate for each partition? And does this
arrangement make sense?

My main concern is having a system that can be backed up easily, as a
regular precaution, and fixed easily should something happen. I've been
told that a separate partition for the OS is preferable because then a
reinstall is easier.

And while I'm asking, which Linux should I get? One Linux app I'm
interested in is Asterisk http://www.asterisk.org/ .

And one more question. When I install a program on the document-program
partition, should I make it put its common files on that partition too?
Or should I allow the program to put its common files on C:\Program
Files\Common Files , the usual default place?

--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************

More about : partitioning linux

Anonymous
October 5, 2004 1:57:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

You are better off having Linux on a separate drive. During Linux
installation it requires 3 partitions of it's own and it can really screw
with a drive if you don't know what you are doing during setup. An
alternative to installing Linux, if you just want to get a feel for it would
be to use Knoppix or MandrakeMove. Both are self-contained Linux distros
that are run entirely off a CD. To play with Linux you simply reboot with
the CD and it runs without affecting your Hard drive. You can set it up so
that you can work with files on a drive if you so desire. Knoppix enables
you to save your configurations to a floppy so you don't have to reconfigure
everytime you run it. MandrakeMove can save your special configuration to a
USB key.

http://www.knoppix.net/docs/

http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/mandrakemove

--

Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell/User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


"Nehmo Sergheyev" <nehmo54@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mAy8d.96442$nA6.86356@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
| I'm setting up a new boot drive of 120 GB (and I'm also going to have an
| 80 GB, but there's already stuff on that), and I intend to use XP Home
| as my main OS. But I also want to learn this Linux thing I've been
| hearing about, so I want to make a separate partition for that.
|
| So what's the best way to partition the 120 GB HD? I assume three
| partitions:
| one for the XP OS,
| one for Linux, and
| one for documents and programs? Should this be separated into two
| partitions?
|
| How much space should I allocate for each partition? And does this
| arrangement make sense?
|
| My main concern is having a system that can be backed up easily, as a
| regular precaution, and fixed easily should something happen. I've been
| told that a separate partition for the OS is preferable because then a
| reinstall is easier.
|
| And while I'm asking, which Linux should I get? One Linux app I'm
| interested in is Asterisk http://www.asterisk.org/ .
|
| And one more question. When I install a program on the document-program
| partition, should I make it put its common files on that partition too?
| Or should I allow the program to put its common files on C:\Program
| Files\Common Files , the usual default place?
|
| --
| *********************
| * Nehmo Sergheyev *
| *********************
|
|
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 1:57:16 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Separate it into 4 partitions:

1 Partition for the Windows OS
1 Paritition for Documents and files
1 Partition for Windows Applications
1 Partition for Linux OS

Just in case anything goes wrong with say your OS parition, all you have to
do is reinstall the OS and re-import registry settings for applications.

30 GBs for each partition
Andre
"Nehmo Sergheyev" <nehmo54@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mAy8d.96442$nA6.86356@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> I'm setting up a new boot drive of 120 GB (and I'm also going to have an
> 80 GB, but there's already stuff on that), and I intend to use XP Home
> as my main OS. But I also want to learn this Linux thing I've been
> hearing about, so I want to make a separate partition for that.
>
> So what's the best way to partition the 120 GB HD? I assume three
> partitions:
> one for the XP OS,
> one for Linux, and
> one for documents and programs? Should this be separated into two
> partitions?
>
> How much space should I allocate for each partition? And does this
> arrangement make sense?
>
> My main concern is having a system that can be backed up easily, as a
> regular precaution, and fixed easily should something happen. I've been
> told that a separate partition for the OS is preferable because then a
> reinstall is easier.
>
> And while I'm asking, which Linux should I get? One Linux app I'm
> interested in is Asterisk http://www.asterisk.org/ .
>
> And one more question. When I install a program on the document-program
> partition, should I make it put its common files on that partition too?
> Or should I allow the program to put its common files on C:\Program
> Files\Common Files , the usual default place?
>
> --
> *********************
> * Nehmo Sergheyev *
> *********************
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 1:57:17 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

I can see having all the partitions except for the partition for windows
applications. Why break the two apart when they are so integrated through
system dlls and the registry?
"Andre Da Costa" <andred25@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eaxKL9uqEHA.192@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Separate it into 4 partitions:
>
> 1 Partition for the Windows OS
> 1 Paritition for Documents and files
> 1 Partition for Windows Applications
> 1 Partition for Linux OS
>
> Just in case anything goes wrong with say your OS parition, all you have
to
> do is reinstall the OS and re-import registry settings for applications.
>
> 30 GBs for each partition
> Andre
> "Nehmo Sergheyev" <nehmo54@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:mAy8d.96442$nA6.86356@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > I'm setting up a new boot drive of 120 GB (and I'm also going to have an
> > 80 GB, but there's already stuff on that), and I intend to use XP Home
> > as my main OS. But I also want to learn this Linux thing I've been
> > hearing about, so I want to make a separate partition for that.
> >
> > So what's the best way to partition the 120 GB HD? I assume three
> > partitions:
> > one for the XP OS,
> > one for Linux, and
> > one for documents and programs? Should this be separated into two
> > partitions?
> >
> > How much space should I allocate for each partition? And does this
> > arrangement make sense?
> >
> > My main concern is having a system that can be backed up easily, as a
> > regular precaution, and fixed easily should something happen. I've been
> > told that a separate partition for the OS is preferable because then a
> > reinstall is easier.
> >
> > And while I'm asking, which Linux should I get? One Linux app I'm
> > interested in is Asterisk http://www.asterisk.org/ .
> >
> > And one more question. When I install a program on the document-program
> > partition, should I make it put its common files on that partition too?
> > Or should I allow the program to put its common files on C:\Program
> > Files\Common Files , the usual default place?
> >
> > --
> > *********************
> > * Nehmo Sergheyev *
> > *********************
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 3:25:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

- Harry Ohrn -
> You are better off having Linux on a separate drive. During Linux
> installation it requires 3 partitions of it's own and it can really
screw
> with a drive if you don't know what you are doing during setup. An
> alternative to installing Linux, if you just want to get a feel for it
would
> be to use Knoppix or MandrakeMove. Both are self-contained Linux
distros
> that are run entirely off a CD. To play with Linux you simply reboot
with
> the CD and it runs without affecting your Hard drive. You can set it
up so
> that you can work with files on a drive if you so desire. Knoppix
enables
> you to save your configurations to a floppy so you don't have to
reconfigure
> everytime you run it. MandrakeMove can save your special configuration
to a
> USB key.
> http://www.knoppix.net/docs/
> http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/mandrakemove
> Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell/User]
> www.webtree.ca/windowsxp

- Nehmo -
Well, I want to get a feel for Linux, but I also want to go beyond that
and have it permanently. So you're saying I should devote a whole
physical drive to Linux? What would you do in my situation? Clean out
the 80 GB drive too? I suppose I could.


--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 4:32:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Nehmo Sergheyev" <nehmo54@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mAy8d.96442$nA6.86356@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> I'm setting up a new boot drive of 120 GB (and I'm also going to have an
> 80 GB, but there's already stuff on that), and I intend to use XP Home
> as my main OS. But I also want to learn this Linux thing I've been
> hearing about, so I want to make a separate partition for that.
>
> So what's the best way to partition the 120 GB HD? I assume three
> partitions:
> one for the XP OS,
> one for Linux, and
> one for documents and programs? Should this be separated into two
> partitions?

Linux doesn't need much room. If you set aside 5GB for it, you'll probably
use less than half of that, even with all linux software you want to use
installed. Linux will play nice with Windows if you install Windows first.

I'd suggest:

Install Windows XP, but when it creates partitions, create two partitions.
If your disk was exactly 120GB (it will show up as less than that during
partition creation), then I'd suggest 110GB for Windows, 5GB for Windows
swap file and 5GB NOT partitioned at all. Whatever the actual size of your
hard drive is when you run the partition program, just subtract about
11000MB, and use whatever's left to create a partition to install windows
on. Then create a second partition of about 5000MB for a window swap file.
That should leave about ~6000MB of unpartitioned space on your hard drive.
(linux will be happy to use that)

After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine, THEN install
linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora) During the linux
install, you will need to create at least two partitions including a linux
swap partition. The linux swap file only needs to be about 500MB, so that
will leave plenty of space for other partitions. Obviously, when you are
creating your linux partitions, you should use the previously UNpartitioned
space on your 120GB drive.

In case you are worried about storing large files downloaded or created in
linux, you should keep in mind that linux will mount windows partitions
automatically. Thus you will have a mostly empty windows partition to use
for storage space in linux. Or you can use any free space there is on the
80GB drive you are recycling.

During the linux install, a boot menu will be set up that will allow you to
choose which OS you want to boot.

Whether you experiment with linux or not, you might want to get yourself a
DVDR/W drive and a image program like Ghost or similar (I use acronis true
image). With Windows and all software installed correctly, I am able to
back up my entire hard drive on two DVD-Rom disks. You won't likely have a
problem with linux, but it's good to have a backup anyway. -Dave
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 4:56:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Nehmo,

There is another alternative from Linspire (a.k.a Lindows). This is a
simple setup and rather 'mickey mouse' for the true Linux user, but on
the other hand it is very straight forward and gives you the opportunity
to play around with Linux.

I have XP Pro setup on my primary HDD and I just let Linspire do its
thing on the secondary HDD. Linspire does setup as the primary boot when
booting up, but that isn't a big deal.

There had been a deal on www.linspire.com. Somewhere in the ordering
process you will be able to enter a coupon code ( deviant9 ) which will
then give you a credit for the purchase price. I'm not sure if the deal
is still available, but I took advantage of it 2 weeks ago. You also get
a 15 day subscription to their software library.

Wayne

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:
> - Harry Ohrn -
>
>>You are better off having Linux on a separate drive. During Linux
>>installation it requires 3 partitions of it's own and it can really
>
> screw
>
>>with a drive if you don't know what you are doing during setup. An
>>alternative to installing Linux, if you just want to get a feel for it
>
> would
>
>>be to use Knoppix or MandrakeMove. Both are self-contained Linux
>
> distros
>
>>that are run entirely off a CD. To play with Linux you simply reboot
>
> with
>
>>the CD and it runs without affecting your Hard drive. You can set it
>
> up so
>
>>that you can work with files on a drive if you so desire. Knoppix
>
> enables
>
>>you to save your configurations to a floppy so you don't have to
>
> reconfigure
>
>>everytime you run it. MandrakeMove can save your special configuration
>
> to a
>
>>USB key.
>>http://www.knoppix.net/docs/
>>http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/mandrakemove
>>Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell/User]
>>www.webtree.ca/windowsxp
>
>
> - Nehmo -
> Well, I want to get a feel for Linux, but I also want to go beyond that
> and have it permanently. So you're saying I should devote a whole
> physical drive to Linux? What would you do in my situation? Clean out
> the 80 GB drive too? I suppose I could.
>
>
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 4:56:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

- wayneP -
> There is another alternative from Linspire (a.k.a Lindows). This is a
> simple setup and rather 'mickey mouse' for the true Linux user, but on
> the other hand it is very straight forward and gives you the
opportunity
> to play around with Linux.
>
> I have XP Pro setup on my primary HDD and I just let Linspire do its
> thing on the secondary HDD. Linspire does setup as the primary boot
when
> booting up, but that isn't a big deal.
>
> There had been a deal on www.linspire.com. Somewhere in the ordering
> process you will be able to enter a coupon code ( deviant9 ) which
will
> then give you a credit for the purchase price. I'm not sure if the
deal
> is still available, but I took advantage of it 2 weeks ago. You also
get
> a 15 day subscription to their software library.

- Nehmo -
I once tired to download Lindows (it was supposed to be free), but I
couldn't download. I never got the problem resolved, but I didn't devote
much time to it. The brief email exchange was discouraging. I'm sure,
however, if I had worked more on the problem, it would have been solved.

Anyway, now I just want to use one of the regular versions of Linux. I
really can't go wrong because I'll always have my XP OS available.

--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 5:07:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Nehmo,

There is another alternative from Linspire (a.k.a Lindows). This is a
simple setup and rather 'mickey mouse' for the true Linux user, but on
the other hand it is very straight forward and gives you the opportunity
to play around with Linux.

I have XP Pro setup on my primary HDD and I just let Linspire do its
thing on the secondary HDD. Linspire does setup as the primary boot when
booting up, but that isn't a big deal.

There had been a deal on www.linspire.com. Somewhere in the ordering
process you will be able to enter a coupon code ( deviant9 ) which will
then give you a credit for the purchase price. I'm not sure if the deal
is still available, but I took advantage of it 2 weeks ago. You also get
a 15 day subscription to their software library.

Wayne

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:
> - Harry Ohrn -
>
>>You are better off having Linux on a separate drive. During Linux
>>installation it requires 3 partitions of it's own and it can really
>
> screw
>
>>with a drive if you don't know what you are doing during setup. An
>>alternative to installing Linux, if you just want to get a feel for it
>
> would
>
>>be to use Knoppix or MandrakeMove. Both are self-contained Linux
>
> distros
>
>>that are run entirely off a CD. To play with Linux you simply reboot
>
> with
>
>>the CD and it runs without affecting your Hard drive. You can set it
>
> up so
>
>>that you can work with files on a drive if you so desire. Knoppix
>
> enables
>
>>you to save your configurations to a floppy so you don't have to
>
> reconfigure
>
>>everytime you run it. MandrakeMove can save your special configuration
>
> to a
>
>>USB key.
>>http://www.knoppix.net/docs/
>>http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/mandrakemove
>>Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell/User]
>>www.webtree.ca/windowsxp
>
>
> - Nehmo -
> Well, I want to get a feel for Linux, but I also want to go beyond that
> and have it permanently. So you're saying I should devote a whole
> physical drive to Linux? What would you do in my situation? Clean out
> the 80 GB drive too? I suppose I could.
>
>
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 5:19:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:

> - Harry Ohrn -
>> You are better off having Linux on a separate drive. During Linux
>> installation it requires 3 partitions of it's own and it can really
> screw
>> with a drive if you don't know what you are doing during setup. An
>> alternative to installing Linux, if you just want to get a feel for it
> would
>> be to use Knoppix or MandrakeMove. Both are self-contained Linux
> distros
>> that are run entirely off a CD. To play with Linux you simply reboot
> with
>> the CD and it runs without affecting your Hard drive. You can set it
> up so
>> that you can work with files on a drive if you so desire. Knoppix
> enables
>> you to save your configurations to a floppy so you don't have to
> reconfigure
>> everytime you run it. MandrakeMove can save your special configuration
> to a
>> USB key.
>> http://www.knoppix.net/docs/
>> http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/mandrakemove
>> Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell/User]
>> www.webtree.ca/windowsxp
>
> - Nehmo -
> Well, I want to get a feel for Linux, but I also want to go beyond that
> and have it permanently. So you're saying I should devote a whole
> physical drive to Linux? What would you do in my situation? Clean out
> the 80 GB drive too? I suppose I could.

If your primary OS is Windows XP and you just want to dink around with Unix
(note--Linux is just one flavor of Unix--if you can drive one flavor of
Unix you can generally figure out another one without too much trouble) a
little, then install Cygwin <http://www.cygwin.com&gt;--you can get a very
good feel for it and at the same time use its capabilities in conjunction
with Windows. If you want to go a little deeper, then pay Microsoft the
hundred bucks for Virtual PC and then install whatever flavor of Unix you
like on the virtual machine. Works far better than one would expect.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 8:23:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Dave C." wrote:
> Linux will play nice with Windows if you install Windows first.
>
> [......]
> After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
> THEN install linux.
> [.......]
> During the linux install, a boot menu will be set up that will
> allow you to choose which OS you want to boot.
>
> Whether you experiment with linux or not, you might want to
> get yourself a DVDR/W drive and a image program like
> Ghost or similar (I use acronis true image). With Windows
> and all software installed correctly, I am able to back up my
> entire hard drive on two DVD-Rom disks.


Do you use the WinXP multi-boot capability for choosing
between Windows and Linux? Is that why you choose to install
WinXP first?

I assume you run Ghost from the Windows partition. How
is it at cloning/copying a Linux partition? Can it copy a Linux
system *to* your system drive to be bootable?

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 8:49:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

It's not THAT hard to setup partitions so that you can install linux &
windows on the same drive. Especially now that recent versions of various
bootloaders don't need to be installed in the first 1024 cylinders.

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:22:54 -0600, Harry Ohrn <harry---@webtree.ca> wrote:

> You are better off having Linux on a separate drive. During Linux
> installation it requires 3 partitions of it's own and it can really screw
> with a drive if you don't know what you are doing during setup. An
> alternative to installing Linux, if you just want to get a feel for it
> would
> be to use Knoppix or MandrakeMove. Both are self-contained Linux distros
> that are run entirely off a CD. To play with Linux you simply reboot with
> the CD and it runs without affecting your Hard drive. You can set it up
> so
> that you can work with files on a drive if you so desire. Knoppix enables
> you to save your configurations to a floppy so you don't have to
> reconfigure
> everytime you run it. MandrakeMove can save your special configuration
> to a
> USB key.
>
> http://www.knoppix.net/docs/
>
> http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/mandrakemove
>
October 5, 2004 9:23:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:
> I'm setting up a new boot drive of 120 GB (and I'm also going to have an
> 80 GB, but there's already stuff on that), and I intend to use XP Home
> as my main OS. But I also want to learn this Linux thing I've been
> hearing about, so I want to make a separate partition for that.

If you have something like a Dell, where XP is already installed and you
have trouble reducing its partition size, it is somewhat simpler to have
Linux on a separate drive. Otherwise it can go on the same drive as
Windows. Since you have lots of room, I would give 10G or more to
Linux, but you could get by on as little as 600M for some standard Linux
distributions. A regular 8G Linux partition plus a 2G Linux swap
partition is very comfortable and sufficient for a newby. But you might
make a few 2G partitions here and there for when you learn the
tradeoffs: it is common for /home and /usr/local to have their own
partitions because that simplifies reinstallation and reorganization,
and often /var is put on a separate partition. There are somewhat
obscure ways to share a swap partition between Linux and Windows. Since
you are experimenting, you might try out each of the big three distros:
Fedora Core, SUSE, and Mandrake. I have had the least trouble with
Fedora. Also when you learn how, you can have several Linux systems
present simultaneously, each sharing the same /home and /usr/local.
October 5, 2004 10:07:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

SlowJet wrote:

> Thse guys are from the 90's and haven a clue. :) 

> When you want to do XP just switch cables back to 120GB drive and boot up.

Oh, now the scales drop from my eyes. It sounds like you are very much
on the cutting edge. Yeah, back in the day we had to select the OS from
a boot menu---I gather that now we can just power down, open the case
and switch cables. Well, it pays to keep up on new techniques ...
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 10:12:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Nehmo Sergheyev <nehmo54@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm setting up a new boot drive of 120 GB (and I'm also going to have an
> 80 GB, but there's already stuff on that), and I intend to use XP Home
> as my main OS. But I also want to learn this Linux thing I've been
> hearing about, so I want to make a separate partition for that.

> So what's the best way to partition the 120 GB HD? I assume three
> partitions:
> one for the XP OS,
> one for Linux, and
> one for documents and programs? Should this be separated into two
> partitions?

Yes, that would be better. Use FAT32 for the windows partitions
and ext2/3 for the Linux partitions. One reason is that FAT32
does not support the Unix/Linux permission model to a reasonable
degree.

> How much space should I allocate for each partition? And does this
> arrangement make sense?

For Linux I use Debian sarge (download form the net, needs
DSL/Cable modem to be comfortable) and generally have found
6GB for the root partition to be generous if a lot and large
apps are installed. Same for data, unless you plan to
put media files in there. For XP you also need something
like 4GB for the OS and swap-file. Install applications
preferrably not on c:.

Also advisable is a 500MB (or so) partition for Linux swap space.
As bootloader I would advise Grub, which can boot both
Linux and XP without problems.

> My main concern is having a system that can be backed up easily, as a
> regular precaution, and fixed easily should something happen. I've been
> told that a separate partition for the OS is preferable because then a
> reinstall is easier.

I would advise doing the backup with Linux. If the Windows partitons
are FAT32 that works well.

> And while I'm asking, which Linux should I get? One Linux app I'm
> interested in is Asterisk http://www.asterisk.org/ .

If you have a fats internet connectivity, I advise to go for
Debian Sarge (testing). A bit confusing in the begionning, but
once you did the first major update without even a reboot,
you will be convinced.

> And one more question. When I install a program on the document-program
> partition, should I make it put its common files on that partition too?
> Or should I allow the program to put its common files on C:\Program
> Files\Common Files , the usual default place?

You should have all programms store their data in the document
partition. The problem is that Windows has a tendency to foul up the
c: partition in a way that only a complete cleanup of that partition
helps. If your data and apps are elsewere, they still work.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
October 5, 2004 10:12:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Sorry about the double posting. I posted from Linspire for the first time
and must have done something wrong. I got some kind of a error message
during first attempt at posting; so I reposted. Must be the error didn't
keep the first post from going through .

Wayne

"Arno Wagner" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2sg6h8F1gsp3eU2@uni-berlin.de...
> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Nehmo Sergheyev <nehmo54@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> I'm setting up a new boot drive of 120 GB (and I'm also going to have an
>> 80 GB, but there's already stuff on that), and I intend to use XP Home
>> as my main OS. But I also want to learn this Linux thing I've been
>> hearing about, so I want to make a separate partition for that.
>
>> So what's the best way to partition the 120 GB HD? I assume three
>> partitions:
>> one for the XP OS,
>> one for Linux, and
>> one for documents and programs? Should this be separated into two
>> partitions?
>
> Yes, that would be better. Use FAT32 for the windows partitions
> and ext2/3 for the Linux partitions. One reason is that FAT32
> does not support the Unix/Linux permission model to a reasonable
> degree.
>
>> How much space should I allocate for each partition? And does this
>> arrangement make sense?
>
> For Linux I use Debian sarge (download form the net, needs
> DSL/Cable modem to be comfortable) and generally have found
> 6GB for the root partition to be generous if a lot and large
> apps are installed. Same for data, unless you plan to
> put media files in there. For XP you also need something
> like 4GB for the OS and swap-file. Install applications
> preferrably not on c:.
>
> Also advisable is a 500MB (or so) partition for Linux swap space.
> As bootloader I would advise Grub, which can boot both
> Linux and XP without problems.
>
>> My main concern is having a system that can be backed up easily, as a
>> regular precaution, and fixed easily should something happen. I've been
>> told that a separate partition for the OS is preferable because then a
>> reinstall is easier.
>
> I would advise doing the backup with Linux. If the Windows partitons
> are FAT32 that works well.
>
>> And while I'm asking, which Linux should I get? One Linux app I'm
>> interested in is Asterisk http://www.asterisk.org/ .
>
> If you have a fats internet connectivity, I advise to go for
> Debian Sarge (testing). A bit confusing in the begionning, but
> once you did the first major update without even a reboot,
> you will be convinced.
>
>> And one more question. When I install a program on the document-program
>> partition, should I make it put its common files on that partition too?
>> Or should I allow the program to put its common files on C:\Program
>> Files\Common Files , the usual default place?
>
> You should have all programms store their data in the document
> partition. The problem is that Windows has a tendency to foul up the
> c: partition in a way that only a complete cleanup of that partition
> helps. If your data and apps are elsewere, they still work.
>
> Arno
> --
> For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
> GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
> "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
>
>
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 1:11:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:32:37 -0400, Dave C. <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:

> In case you are worried about storing large files downloaded or created
> in
> linux, you should keep in mind that linux will mount windows partitions
> automatically. Thus you will have a mostly empty windows partition to
> use
> for storage space in linux.

If you intend to do that, you should remember that linux currently doesn't
support writing to NTFS partitions (the XP default). You will need to
format the XP partition as FAT32.
October 6, 2004 6:59:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

J. Clarke wrote:
> Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:
>
>
>>- Harry Ohrn -
>>
>>>You are better off having Linux on a separate drive. During Linux
>>>installation it requires 3 partitions of it's own and it can really
>>
>>screw
>>
>>>with a drive if you don't know what you are doing during setup. An
>>>alternative to installing Linux, if you just want to get a feel for it
>>
>>would
>>
>>>be to use Knoppix or MandrakeMove. Both are self-contained Linux
>>
>>distros
>>
>>>that are run entirely off a CD. To play with Linux you simply reboot
>>
>>with
>>
>>>the CD and it runs without affecting your Hard drive. You can set it
>>
>>up so
>>
>>>that you can work with files on a drive if you so desire. Knoppix
>>
>>enables
>>
>>>you to save your configurations to a floppy so you don't have to
>>
>>reconfigure
>>
>>>everytime you run it. MandrakeMove can save your special configuration
>>
>>to a
>>
>>>USB key.
>>>http://www.knoppix.net/docs/
>>>http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/mandrakemove
>>>Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell/User]
>>>www.webtree.ca/windowsxp
>>
>>- Nehmo -
>>Well, I want to get a feel for Linux, but I also want to go beyond that
>>and have it permanently. So you're saying I should devote a whole
>>physical drive to Linux? What would you do in my situation? Clean out
>>the 80 GB drive too? I suppose I could.
>
>
> If your primary OS is Windows XP and you just want to dink around with Unix
> (note--Linux is just one flavor of Unix--if you can drive one flavor of
> Unix you can generally figure out another one without too much trouble) a
> little, then install Cygwin <http://www.cygwin.com&gt;--you can get a very
> good feel for it and at the same time use its capabilities in conjunction
> with Windows. If you want to go a little deeper, then pay Microsoft the
> hundred bucks for Virtual PC and then install whatever flavor of Unix you
> like on the virtual machine. Works far better than one would expect.
>

That is pretty much wrongheaded. The OP should just try Linux, and so
should you.
October 6, 2004 7:01:40 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Andre Da Costa wrote:
> Separate it into 4 partitions:
>
> 1 Partition for the Windows OS
> 1 Paritition for Documents and files
> 1 Partition for Windows Applications
> 1 Partition for Linux OS
>

He will also need a Linux swap partition (2G recommended).
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 7:49:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Matt wrote:

> J. Clarke wrote:
>> Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:
>>
>>
>>>- Harry Ohrn -
>>>
>>>>You are better off having Linux on a separate drive. During Linux
>>>>installation it requires 3 partitions of it's own and it can really
>>>
>>>screw
>>>
>>>>with a drive if you don't know what you are doing during setup. An
>>>>alternative to installing Linux, if you just want to get a feel for it
>>>
>>>would
>>>
>>>>be to use Knoppix or MandrakeMove. Both are self-contained Linux
>>>
>>>distros
>>>
>>>>that are run entirely off a CD. To play with Linux you simply reboot
>>>
>>>with
>>>
>>>>the CD and it runs without affecting your Hard drive. You can set it
>>>
>>>up so
>>>
>>>>that you can work with files on a drive if you so desire. Knoppix
>>>
>>>enables
>>>
>>>>you to save your configurations to a floppy so you don't have to
>>>
>>>reconfigure
>>>
>>>>everytime you run it. MandrakeMove can save your special configuration
>>>
>>>to a
>>>
>>>>USB key.
>>>>http://www.knoppix.net/docs/
>>>>http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/mandrakemove
>>>>Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell/User]
>>>>www.webtree.ca/windowsxp
>>>
>>>- Nehmo -
>>>Well, I want to get a feel for Linux, but I also want to go beyond that
>>>and have it permanently. So you're saying I should devote a whole
>>>physical drive to Linux? What would you do in my situation? Clean out
>>>the 80 GB drive too? I suppose I could.
>>
>>
>> If your primary OS is Windows XP and you just want to dink around with
>> Unix (note--Linux is just one flavor of Unix--if you can drive one flavor
>> of Unix you can generally figure out another one without too much
>> trouble) a little, then install Cygwin <http://www.cygwin.com&gt;--you can
>> get a very good feel for it and at the same time use its capabilities in
>> conjunction
>> with Windows. If you want to go a little deeper, then pay Microsoft the
>> hundred bucks for Virtual PC and then install whatever flavor of Unix you
>> like on the virtual machine. Works far better than one would expect.
>>
>
> That is pretty much wrongheaded. The OP should just try Linux, and so
> should you.

Next time you're tempted to spout off in this fashion, check headers first.
Want some ketchup for that foot?

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 11:43:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:

>After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine, THEN install
>linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)

You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of
Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well
documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.

Of course, Windows will (intentionally) do the same to a
previously-installed Linux partition. So, basically, you're screwed
for dual-boot, unless you use same third-party boot manager (which I
regard as kludges).
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 5:03:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Nehmo Sergheyev" <nehmo54@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:ZNA8d.96449$nA6.6376@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com:

> I once tired to download Lindows (it was supposed to be free), but
> I couldn't download. I never got the problem resolved, but I
> didn't devote much time to it. The brief email exchange was
> discouraging. I'm sure, however, if I had worked more on the
> problem, it would have been solved.

You should try and resolve the problem. I've tried several distros of
Linux and only Mandrake 10.1 or Mandrake 10.0RC1 64bit or, believe it
or not, Linspire, will find and install correctly all my hardware! I'm
impressed but I believe Linspire could become costly over time if you
needed a lot of software?

Anyway, back to WindowsXP and Windows XP 64-bit edition as Linux isn't
quite what I need.... yet....
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 10:05:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:43:56 -0500, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:
>
>> After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine, THEN
>> install
>> linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>
> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of
> Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well
> documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>
> Of course, Windows will (intentionally) do the same to a
> previously-installed Linux partition. So, basically, you're screwed
> for dual-boot, unless you use same third-party boot manager (which I
> regard as kludges).


You what? Since when? I've just installed Gentoo 2004.2 with 2.6, lilo &
no problems whatsoever. I don't see why the kernel should affect how the
boot works, since its not loaded until after you start booting linux.

Of course, since I haven't yet bothered to go google for it, could well be
talking outta my ass, so feel free to ignore me if thats the case.... :p 
Anonymous
October 6, 2004 11:18:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:

>>After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine, THEN install
>>linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)

> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of
> Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well
> documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.

Huh? I have been using stock 2.6.x up to 2.6.9-rc2 without any
problem like this. Care to give a reference? Or is this just
a problem of Fedora?

> Of course, Windows will (intentionally) do the same to a
> previously-installed Linux partition.

Not if you create the installation partition with Linux. At least
I have done this successfully several times.

> So, basically, you're screwed
> for dual-boot, unless you use same third-party boot manager (which I
> regard as kludges).

"Huh?" again: Lilo and Grub do the job without problem. And they
are not "third-party".

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 6:24:19 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

- Andre Da Costa -
> > Separate it into 4 partitions:
> >
> > 1 Partition for the Windows OS
> > 1 Paritition for Documents and files
> > 1 Partition for Windows Applications
> > 1 Partition for Linux OS
> >
> > Just in case anything goes wrong with say your OS parition, all you
have
> to
> > do is reinstall the OS and re-import registry settings for
applications.
> >
> > 30 GBs for each partition

> I can see having all the partitions except for the partition for
windows
> applications. Why break the two apart when they are so integrated
through
> system dlls and the registry?

- Nehmo -
Are you saying the programs should go with the OS, or are you saying the
programs should go with the documents?

And (referring to Andre's post) I understand the logic of putting the X
P OS on its own partition; you can reinstall the OS without disturbing
the documents. But "re-import the registry settings" to get the programs
working doesn't sound that easy to me. I would have to backup the
registry to a non-OS partition after every install. I suppose that would
work. Are there people who do that?

--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************
October 7, 2004 9:28:05 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:

> - Andre Da Costa -
>> > Separate it into 4 partitions:
>> >
>> > 1 Partition for the Windows OS
>> > 1 Paritition for Documents and files
>> > 1 Partition for Windows Applications
>> > 1 Partition for Linux OS
>> >
>> > Just in case anything goes wrong with say your OS parition, all you
> have
>> to
>> > do is reinstall the OS and re-import registry settings for
> applications.
>> >
>> > 30 GBs for each partition
>
>> I can see having all the partitions except for the partition for
> windows
>> applications. Why break the two apart when they are so integrated
> through
>> system dlls and the registry?
>
> - Nehmo -
> Are you saying the programs should go with the OS, or are you saying
> the programs should go with the documents?
>
> And (referring to Andre's post) I understand the logic of putting the
> X P OS on its own partition; you can reinstall the OS without
> disturbing the documents. But "re-import the registry settings" to get
> the programs working doesn't sound that easy to me. I would have to
> backup the registry to a non-OS partition after every install. I
> suppose that would work. Are there people who do that?
>

Hi - Here's how I like to set up a dual-boot:

1 partition for Windows and the programs, formatted ntfs.
1 partition for data that will be shared between Windows and Linux,
formatted FAT32 (Linux support for writing to ntfs is experimental and
I don't suggest it).
1 partition for Linux. Actually, I prefer a separate hard drive for
Linux, but that isn't a requirement.

Install XP first, then whatever Linux distro you've chosen. I use SuSE,
but you might want to look into Lycoris, Xandros, Linspire, or Mandrake
as they all have pretty easy gui installers.

Malke
--
MS MVP - Windows Shell/User
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
October 7, 2004 6:10:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

J. Clarke wrote:

>>>If your primary OS is Windows XP and you just want to dink around with
>>>Unix (note--Linux is just one flavor of Unix--if you can drive one flavor
>>>of Unix you can generally figure out another one without too much
>>>trouble) a little, then install Cygwin <http://www.cygwin.com&gt;--you can
>>>get a very good feel for it and at the same time use its capabilities in
>>>conjunction
>>>with Windows. If you want to go a little deeper, then pay Microsoft the
>>>hundred bucks for Virtual PC and then install whatever flavor of Unix you
>>>like on the virtual machine. Works far better than one would expect.
>>>
>>
>>That is pretty much wrongheaded. The OP should just try Linux, and so
>>should you.
>
>
> Next time you're tempted to spout off in this fashion, check headers first.
> Want some ketchup for that foot?
>

Nah, but thanks for asking! :-)

Cygwin is good if you must run Windows, but the OP is able to install
and run Linux.

You want him to pay $100 (to Microsoft!) for Virtual PC and then pay
again for "whatever flavor of Unix you like"? I confess I don't know
what the options are in this regard. How much would you have him spend
for Unix (what "flavor"?) on top of Virtual PC?

I'd like to know what specific belief or assumption is making you come
up with these odd approaches. It sound like you don't want to reboot.

By the way, Linux is not Unix.
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 6:10:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Matt wrote:

> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>>>If your primary OS is Windows XP and you just want to dink around with
>>>>Unix (note--Linux is just one flavor of Unix--if you can drive one
>>>>flavor of Unix you can generally figure out another one without too much
>>>>trouble) a little, then install Cygwin <http://www.cygwin.com&gt;--you can
>>>>get a very good feel for it and at the same time use its capabilities in
>>>>conjunction
>>>>with Windows. If you want to go a little deeper, then pay Microsoft the
>>>>hundred bucks for Virtual PC and then install whatever flavor of Unix
>>>>you
>>>>like on the virtual machine. Works far better than one would expect.
>>>>
>>>
>>>That is pretty much wrongheaded. The OP should just try Linux, and so
>>>should you.
>>
>>
>> Next time you're tempted to spout off in this fashion, check headers
>> first. Want some ketchup for that foot?
>>
>
> Nah, but thanks for asking! :-)
>
> Cygwin is good if you must run Windows, but the OP is able to install
> and run Linux.

Yes, he is, and that might be the most attractive alternative for him, but
just because he can doesn't mean that doing so is the most desirable
alternative for him.

> You want him to pay $100 (to Microsoft!) for Virtual PC and then pay
> again for "whatever flavor of Unix you like"? I confess I don't know
> what the options are in this regard. How much would you have him spend
> for Unix (what "flavor"?) on top of Virtual PC?

The only major Unix variants that are not available under an open license
are Solaris and SCO System V. NetBSD, OpenBSD, and Linux are all
open-source and available at no charge. Personally I'm partial to Gentoo
Linux, but others have other preferences.

> I'd like to know what specific belief or assumption is making you come
> up with these odd approaches. It sound like you don't want to reboot.

I don't find it an "odd approach" at all. If you come from the mainframe
world the use of virtual machines is SOP--it's very, very old technology,
commercially available since the late '60s or early '70s. If you've never
used one you might want to try it. Personally I find the notion that you
must reboot to run a different OS on a machine that was designed to support
virtual operation is the "odd approach". The use of a virtual machine is
_much_ more convenient that repeated rebooting. Yes, there's a performance
penalty, but if you're doing something that critical it should have a
dedicated machine anyway.

> By the way, Linux is not Unix.

By what reasoning? If you mean that it can't legally be called that as a
brand name because SCO owns the brand, that is true, but that is also true
of Solaris, NetBSD, and FreeBSD among others. If you mean that the code is
not derived from AT&T source, that is also true but again the same is true
of NetBSD and FreeBSD, both of which were sanitized so as to allow them to
be made open-source. Now, you may think that NetBSD and FreeBSD are also
not Unix, but in that case you are most assuredly in the minority. If you
mean that it's not good enough for production use, IBM is providing it as
an alternative on their mainframes, either natively or under VM. If it
wasn't ready for prime time businesses wouldn't be putting it on
multimillion dollar hardware.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
October 7, 2004 6:14:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

chrisv wrote:
> "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:
>
>
>>After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine, THEN install
>>linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>
>
> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of
> Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well
> documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.

Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1 (2.6 kernel)
all bootable on the same machine.
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 6:14:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Matt" wrote:
>> "Dave C." wrote:
>>
>>>After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
>>>THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>>
>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
>> of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
>> well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>
> Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
> (2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.


Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?
Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 9:39:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@nospamdot.com> wrote:
> "Matt" wrote:
>>> "Dave C." wrote:
>>>
>>>>After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
>>>>THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>>>
>>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
>>> of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
>>> well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>>
>> Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
>> (2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.


> Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?
> Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
> or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?

What about using a bootmanager from Linux (in the widest sense)?
The bootmanager form XP is perhaps the worst choice possible.

Grub or LILO can boot XP just fine. And yes, I have XP and
Linux on the same disk in my laptop, and have a linux recovery
system on the first disk in my desktop, were also XP is on the
same disk. The main Linux system in on RAID1 and only half on
the first disk...

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 9:39:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Arno Wagner" wrote:
> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>> "Matt" wrote:
>>>> "Dave C." wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
>>>>>THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>>>>
>>>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
>>>> of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
>>>> well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>>>
>>> Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
>>> (2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.
>
>
>> Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?
>> Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
>> or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?
>
> What about using a bootmanager from Linux (in the widest sense)?
> The bootmanager form XP is perhaps the worst choice possible.
>
> Grub or LILO can boot XP just fine. And yes, I have XP and
> Linux on the same disk in my laptop, and have a linux recovery
> system on the first disk in my desktop, were also XP is on the
> same disk. The main Linux system in on RAID1 and only half on
> the first disk...


Do Grub and LILO run under Linux, or are they stand-alone?
IOW, can they be used for Windows-only systems?

*TimDaniels*
October 7, 2004 9:39:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Timothy Daniels wrote:

> Do Grub and LILO run under Linux, or are they stand-alone?
> IOW, can they be used for Windows-only systems?
>
> *TimDaniels*

No, Grub and the older LILO (Linux Loader) are boot managers for Linux
systems which can boot non-Linux systems too if you install it in the
MBR. Windows XP has its own boot manager which can boot Windows
operating systems, and there are third-party boot managers for Windows
that can boot Windows and non-Windows operating systems. BootIT NG is
one, Boot Magic is another.

Malke
--
MS MVP - Windows Shell/User
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
October 7, 2004 11:44:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Timothy Daniels wrote:
> "Matt" wrote:
>
>>> "Dave C." wrote:
>>>
>>>> After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
>>>> THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>>>
>>>
>>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
>>> of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
>>> well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>>
>>
>> Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
>> (2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.
>
>
>
> Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?

XP on the first disk. FC2, SUSE, and FreeBSD on the second disk.

> Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
> or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?

I use GRUB (Grand Unified Boot Loader) on the MBR of the first disk so
that it points to a grub.conf file in the /boot directory of the FC2
installation. That grub.conf is a specification of a boot menu and of
the locations of the several OSes. I find GRUB's documents easier than
LILO's, and LILO is partly deprecated.
Anonymous
October 7, 2004 11:44:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

"Matt" wrote:
> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>> "Matt" wrote:
>>
>>>> "Dave C." wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
>>>>> THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
>>>> of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
>>>> well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
>>> (2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?
>
> XP on the first disk. FC2, SUSE, and FreeBSD on the second disk.
>
>> Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
>> or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?
>
> I use GRUB (Grand Unified Boot Loader) on the MBR of the first disk so
> that it points to a grub.conf file in the /boot directory of the FC2
> installation. That grub.conf is a specification of a boot menu and of
> the locations of the several OSes. I find GRUB's documents easier than
> LILO's, and LILO is partly deprecated.


Before I do a Google search, do you have any hot tips on where
to find the best documentation on these boot managers? Must
GRUB run under Linux/UNIX? Can it reside on a partition formatted
for NTFS (if, indeed, it resides on a partition)?

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 2:37:19 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

- Malke -
> Hi - Here's how I like to set up a dual-boot:
>
> 1 partition for Windows and the programs, formatted ntfs.
> 1 partition for data that will be shared between Windows and Linux,
> formatted FAT32 (Linux support for writing to ntfs is experimental and
> I don't suggest it).
> 1 partition for Linux. Actually, I prefer a separate hard drive for
> Linux, but that isn't a requirement.

- Nehmo –
How much should I allocate for each partition?
And will XP located on an NTFS have any problems accessing FAT32
files? It doesn't matter?
And why do you prefer a separate physical drive for Linux? What would
be the advantage? Actually, I do have an 80 and a 120 composing this
machine. I was going to leave existing data on the 80 alone, and use
the remaining space for new data. But only 25 GB on the 80 is
currently used. I could move the used-space on the 80 to the 120, and
then use the 80 solely for Linux.
--
*********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
*********************
October 8, 2004 2:51:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Timothy Daniels wrote:
>
> "Matt" wrote:
>
>> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>>
>>> "Matt" wrote:
>>>
>>>>> "Dave C." wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
>>>>>> THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
>>>>> of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
>>>>> well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
>>>> (2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?
>>
>>
>> XP on the first disk. FC2, SUSE, and FreeBSD on the second disk.
>>
>>> Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
>>> or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?
>>
>>
>> I use GRUB (Grand Unified Boot Loader) on the MBR of the first disk so
>> that it points to a grub.conf file in the /boot directory of the FC2
>> installation. That grub.conf is a specification of a boot menu and of
>> the locations of the several OSes. I find GRUB's documents easier
>> than LILO's, and LILO is partly deprecated.
>
>
>
> Before I do a Google search, do you have any hot tips on where
> to find the best documentation on these boot managers? Must
> GRUB run under Linux/UNIX? Can it reside on a partition formatted
> for NTFS (if, indeed, it resides on a partition)?
>
> *TimDaniels*

I don't know all that much about grub, but I have usually been able to
get it to do what I want. You might try
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/. Here is some info from my Fedora
installation:

Name : grub Relocations: (not relocatable)
Version : 0.94 Vendor: Red Hat, Inc.
Release : 5 Build Date: Thu 06 May 2004
11:37:56 PM CDT
Install Date: Sat 11 Sep 2004 11:53:36 PM CDT Build Host:
tweety.build.redhat.com
Group : System Environment/Base Source RPM: grub-0.94-5.src.rpm
Size : 815365 License: GPL
Signature : DSA/SHA1, Fri 07 May 2004 02:49:12 PM CDT, Key ID
b44269d04f2a6fd2
Packager : Red Hat, Inc. <http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla&gt;
URL : http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/
Summary : GRUB - the Grand Unified Boot Loader.
Description :
GRUB (Grand Unified Boot Loader) is a boot loader capable of booting
into most free operating systems - Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, GNU Mach,
and others as well as most commercial operating systems.
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 3:34:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@nospamdot.com> wrote:
> "Arno Wagner" wrote:
>> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>>> "Matt" wrote:
>>>>> "Dave C." wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
>>>>>>THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>>>>>
>>>>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
>>>>> of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
>>>>> well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>>>>
>>>> Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
>>>> (2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.
>>
>>
>>> Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?
>>> Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
>>> or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?
>>
>> What about using a bootmanager from Linux (in the widest sense)?
>> The bootmanager form XP is perhaps the worst choice possible.
>>
>> Grub or LILO can boot XP just fine. And yes, I have XP and
>> Linux on the same disk in my laptop, and have a linux recovery
>> system on the first disk in my desktop, were also XP is on the
>> same disk. The main Linux system in on RAID1 and only half on
>> the first disk...


> Do Grub and LILO run under Linux, or are they stand-alone?
> IOW, can they be used for Windows-only systems?

For booting both can do without Linux. Configuration is a
different question.

LILO has to be configured with Linux.

For Grub I have to admit I am not sure. Interactive mode
from a floppy can be used with any configuration on the HDD
also one that does not include Linux. However you have to
specify everything manually, so this is more of an emergency
option.

For HDD installation of Grub and/or adjusted configuration, I think
you need a running GNU Mach, Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD or OpenBSD.

However, why not installing a small Linux, say 200MB partition
size or so, just with a text editor and lilo or Grub configuration?
You can use e.g. a minimal Debian system for this. If
you dont use X, sound, mouse, etc. configuration is essentially
a non-issue.

Alternatively you can also use a Linux CD, e.g. a Knoppix
variant to maintain the bootloader.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
October 8, 2004 3:34:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Arno Wagner wrote:

> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Timothy Daniels
> <TDaniels@nospamdot.com> wrote:
>> "Arno Wagner" wrote:
>>> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>>>> "Matt" wrote:
>>>>>> "Dave C." wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
>>>>>>>THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat
>>>>>>>fedora)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6
>>>>>> kernel)
>>>>>> of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
>>>>>> well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
>>>>> (2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?
>>>> Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
>>>> or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?
>>>
>>> What about using a bootmanager from Linux (in the widest sense)?
>>> The bootmanager form XP is perhaps the worst choice possible.
>>>
>>> Grub or LILO can boot XP just fine. And yes, I have XP and
>>> Linux on the same disk in my laptop, and have a linux recovery
>>> system on the first disk in my desktop, were also XP is on the
>>> same disk. The main Linux system in on RAID1 and only half on
>>> the first disk...
>
>
>> Do Grub and LILO run under Linux, or are they stand-alone?
>> IOW, can they be used for Windows-only systems?
>
> For booting both can do without Linux. Configuration is a
> different question.
>
> LILO has to be configured with Linux.
>
> For Grub I have to admit I am not sure. Interactive mode
> from a floppy can be used with any configuration on the HDD
> also one that does not include Linux. However you have to
> specify everything manually, so this is more of an emergency
> option.
>
> For HDD installation of Grub and/or adjusted configuration, I think
> you need a running GNU Mach, Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD or OpenBSD.
>
> However, why not installing a small Linux, say 200MB partition
> size or so, just with a text editor and lilo or Grub configuration?
> You can use e.g. a minimal Debian system for this. If
> you dont use X, sound, mouse, etc. configuration is essentially
> a non-issue.
>
> Alternatively you can also use a Linux CD, e.g. a Knoppix
> variant to maintain the bootloader.
>
> Arno

Or just boot Linux from floppy, but I would personally find that got
really old very quickly. If the OP just wants to try Linux to feel it
out, then Knoppix is a wonderful choice. Just make sure to have enough
RAM since it is of course running in RAM. The latest Knoppix is 3.6 and
can be gotten at http://www.knoppix.net.

Malke
--
MS-MVP Windows User/Shell
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic"
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 3:40:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Timothy Daniels <TDaniels@nospamdot.com> wrote:

> "Matt" wrote:
>> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>>> "Matt" wrote:
>>>
>>>>> "Dave C." wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
>>>>>> THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
>>>>> of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
>>>>> well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
>>>> (2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?
>>
>> XP on the first disk. FC2, SUSE, and FreeBSD on the second disk.
>>
>>> Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
>>> or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?
>>
>> I use GRUB (Grand Unified Boot Loader) on the MBR of the first disk so
>> that it points to a grub.conf file in the /boot directory of the FC2
>> installation. That grub.conf is a specification of a boot menu and of
>> the locations of the several OSes. I find GRUB's documents easier than
>> LILO's, and LILO is partly deprecated.


> Before I do a Google search, do you have any hot tips on where
> to find the best documentation on these boot managers? Must
> GRUB run under Linux/UNIX? Can it reside on a partition formatted
> for NTFS (if, indeed, it resides on a partition)?

Grub can boot windows only by use of the Windows boot-sector. It
needs its configuration file in a partition with a filesystem
it can read. It does understand FAT 16/32, so you could put the
config file on such a partition. It does not understand NTFS.

I think the initial installation can be done from a Grub-floppy,
but I am not sure. I never was without a Linux, at least on CD when
doing this kind of work.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
October 8, 2004 8:33:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Timothy Daniels wrote:
>
> "Matt" wrote:
>
>> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>>
>>> "Matt" wrote:
>>>
>>>>> "Dave C." wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine,
>>>>>> THEN install linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel)
>>>>> of Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is
>>>>> well documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1
>>>> (2.6 kernel) all bootable on the same machine.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are all those OSes on the same hard disk?
>>
>>
>> XP on the first disk. FC2, SUSE, and FreeBSD on the second disk.
>>
>>> Do you use WinXP's boot manager to do the selection,
>>> or do you use a 3rd party boot manager (e.g. Boot Magic)?
>>
>>
>> I use GRUB (Grand Unified Boot Loader) on the MBR of the first disk so
>> that it points to a grub.conf file in the /boot directory of the FC2
>> installation. That grub.conf is a specification of a boot menu and of
>> the locations of the several OSes. I find GRUB's documents easier
>> than LILO's, and LILO is partly deprecated.
>
>
>
> Before I do a Google search, do you have any hot tips on where
> to find the best documentation on these boot managers? Must
> GRUB run under Linux/UNIX? Can it reside on a partition formatted
> for NTFS (if, indeed, it resides on a partition)?

Grub can run without Linux. Certainly you can make a stand-alone
generic grub boot disk that you use interactively. Also you can make a
grub floppy that will display a boot menu and boot any of the choices.
And you can put grub on the mbr so that it boots windows. I believe you
can specifiy a menu in a grub.conf file in your windows filesystem and
put grub on the mbr so that it reads that grub.conf.
October 8, 2004 9:29:43 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Nehmo Sergheyev wrote:

> - Malke -
>> Hi - Here's how I like to set up a dual-boot:
>>
>> 1 partition for Windows and the programs, formatted ntfs.
>> 1 partition for data that will be shared between Windows and Linux,
>> formatted FAT32 (Linux support for writing to ntfs is experimental
>> and I don't suggest it).
>> 1 partition for Linux. Actually, I prefer a separate hard drive for
>> Linux, but that isn't a requirement.
>
> - Nehmo –
> How much should I allocate for each partition?
> And will XP located on an NTFS have any problems accessing FAT32
> files? It doesn't matter?
> And why do you prefer a separate physical drive for Linux? What would
> be the advantage? Actually, I do have an 80 and a 120 composing this
> machine. I was going to leave existing data on the 80 alone, and use
> the remaining space for new data. But only 25 GB on the 80 is
> currently used. I could move the used-space on the 80 to the 120, and
> then use the 80 solely for Linux.

At this point, regarding your partitioning for Linux, you may want to
start posting in a Linux newsgroup or start Googling for Linux newbie
sites. I can't answer you as to how much room you should allot for each
os. That will depend on what you use the os for. There are many sites
for beginners in Linux that will discuss partitioning schemes. Again,
you may want to just try Knoppix first because you don't have to
install it.

XP on an ntfs partition will have no problem accessing FAT32. It cannot
access any Linux file systems. As I said before, Linux can see both
FAT32 and ntfs, but can only safely write to FAT32. That is why in a
dual-boot system where you want data (that you will change; i.e., write
to the files) shared, I like a small FAT32 partition between XP and
Linux.

I like separate drives - if practical - in dual-boot systems because if
one drive fails, your other os still lives. I also put at least two
hard drives in my single-boot systems, no matter what the os. I like
the system and program files on one drive and the data on another
drive. Right now, my only machine that dual-boots XP and Linux is my
laptop, so obviously I only have one drive in there. There is a very
small XP partition, a smaller FAT32 partition, and the rest of the disk
is SuSE 9.1, but that's because I almost never boot into Windows on
that machine. Your needs may be different. I put three drives in my
son's machine - one for Win98 (old games!), one for XP, and one for
data.

HTH,

Malke
--
MS MVP - Windows Shell/User
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 11:35:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Matt <matt@themattfella.zzzz.com> wrote:

>chrisv wrote:
>> "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine, THEN install
>>>linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>>
>>
>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of
>> Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well
>> documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>
>Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1 (2.6 kernel)
>all bootable on the same machine.

It doesn't happen every time, but it's a fact it happens, when you
first install Windows and then install Linux. It happened to me.

From
http://www.hut.fi/~tkarvine/linux-windows-dual-boot-res...

Fedora Core 2 and other distributions using Linux kernel version 2.6
alter the partition table so that Windows no longer recognizes those
partitions. This problem does not show with every installation of
Fedora Core 2, and it never occurs with Fedora Core 1. The problem is
annoying but fixable without data loss. This worked for me: boot to
Knoppix 3.3 (Linux 2.4), sfdisk -l. Check the correct geometry: CHS
Cylinders Heads Sectors. (There are also other sources to check the
correct geometry, such as printings on hard disks and sometimes bios.)
Rewrite the partition table to reflect the correct geometry, using
your own values for /dev/hda, C H and S.

sfdisk -d /dev/hda |sfdisk --no-reread -C 16037 -H 255 -S 63 /dev/hda
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 11:41:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:
>
>>>After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine, THEN install
>>>linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>
>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of
>> Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well
>> documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>
>Huh? I have been using stock 2.6.x up to 2.6.9-rc2 without any
>problem like this. Care to give a reference? Or is this just
>a problem of Fedora?

All 2.6 kernels have the issue, is my understanding.

>> Of course, Windows will (intentionally) do the same to a
>> previously-installed Linux partition.
>
>Not if you create the installation partition with Linux. At least
>I have done this successfully several times.

What do mean, exactly? Windows will replace the boot-loader every
time, and not give an option to boot Linux, from what I've seen.

>> So, basically, you're screwed
>> for dual-boot, unless you use same third-party boot manager (which I
>> regard as kludges).
>
>"Huh?" again: Lilo and Grub do the job without problem. And they
>are not "third-party".

"Lilo and Grub" are NOT what I consider "kludgy third party
boot-loaders". In theory, the preferred way to get the dual-boot
going is to install Windows first, then Linux, using Grub or Lilo to
allow dual-booting.

FC2 uses Grub by default, and there was no option to boot Windows. It
was hosed. It's a documented fact that the 2.6 kernel has this
problem.
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 11:59:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Matt <matt@themattfella.zzzz.com> wrote:

>chrisv wrote:
>>
>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of
>> Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well
>> documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>
>Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1 (2.6 kernel)
>all bootable on the same machine.

Here's another link:

http://lwn.net/Articles/86835/

and another

http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2004/05/fhassel_windows_n...
Anonymous
October 8, 2004 12:42:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>FC2 uses Grub by default, and there was no option to boot Windows. It
>was hosed. It's a documented fact that the 2.6 kernel has this
>problem.

I mis-spoke there. As I recall, Grub gave the option, but Windows
would not boot.
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 1:51:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine, THEN install
>>>>linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>>
>>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of
>>> Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well
>>> documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>>
>>Huh? I have been using stock 2.6.x up to 2.6.9-rc2 without any
>>problem like this. Care to give a reference? Or is this just
>>a problem of Fedora?

> All 2.6 kernels have the issue, is my understanding.

I am completely unaware of this and since I have
used a dual-boot machine since 1994, I should have noticed
something, should I not? And if there is an issue I would
like to know exactly what it is...

>>> Of course, Windows will (intentionally) do the same to a
>>> previously-installed Linux partition.
>>
>>Not if you create the installation partition with Linux. At least
>>I have done this successfully several times.

> What do mean, exactly? Windows will replace the boot-loader every
> time, and not give an option to boot Linux, from what I've seen.

Oh, that is what you mean. But that is not real damage, just a small
issue to be corrected with a Linux recovery CD/floppy or a grub
boot-floppy. Takes two minutes and is routine for me. Note that
this does nothing to the Linux partition. It is purely an MBR
issue.

>>> So, basically, you're screwed
>>> for dual-boot, unless you use same third-party boot manager (which I
>>> regard as kludges).
>>
>>"Huh?" again: Lilo and Grub do the job without problem. And they
>>are not "third-party".

> "Lilo and Grub" are NOT what I consider "kludgy third party
> boot-loaders". In theory, the preferred way to get the dual-boot
> going is to install Windows first, then Linux, using Grub or Lilo to
> allow dual-booting.

Or use the other way round and the Grub-floppy/Grub-CD/Knoppix CD to
make Linux bootable again. Quite simple. Of course you have to
understand some bootloader basics for this.

> FC2 uses Grub by default, and there was no option to boot Windows. It
> was hosed. It's a documented fact that the 2.6 kernel has this
> problem.

I still don't see any kernel issue here at all. 2.6 will not touch
a partition unless told to. It may be that the FC2 installer is bad.
I have observed no effects on Windows partitions with the Debian
installer. And that Grub in FC2 has no option to boot Windows
surely is FC2's fault and not that of Grub. You can still go to
the Grub shell and boot Windows manually and as long as you can
boot a linux from somewhere you can reinstall/maintain LILO.

I don't quite see your problem. Of course if you do not have
any possibility ti boot besides the HDD, you may be screwed.
But then how did you perform the installation in the first
place?

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
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"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 1:59:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>>FC2 uses Grub by default, and there was no option to boot Windows. It
>>was hosed. It's a documented fact that the 2.6 kernel has this
>>problem.

> I mis-spoke there. As I recall, Grub gave the option, but Windows
> would not boot.

O.K., then this was likely because the preconfigured Windows
boot optins were wrong. Solution:

- boot into grub bit not farther
- Go to grub shell.
- Tell it which partition is Windows:
root (hd0,1)
if on hda1, adjust if somewere else.
- Make the partition active (for some reason Windows still needs this):
makeactive
- Tell Grub to use the chainloader:
chainloader +1
- Boot:
boot

This should bring Windows up o.k.. Also works with a Grub
boot-floppy. You can add the correct settings from Linux in the
/boot/grub/menu.lst file once you have figured them out.

An other possibility is that FC2 did damage in the partitioning
process. Still not a Linux or Kernel issue, but a problem of
FC2. That Linux is a great OS does not mean there are no broken
distros or installers.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
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"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 2:06:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Matt <matt@themattfella.zzzz.com> wrote:

>>chrisv wrote:
>>> "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>After Windows XP is fully installed, tested, and running fine, THEN install
>>>>linux. (I'd suggest Mandrake linux or redhat fedora)
>>>
>>>
>>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of
>>> Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well
>>> documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>>
>>Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1 (2.6 kernel)
>>all bootable on the same machine.

> It doesn't happen every time, but it's a fact it happens, when you
> first install Windows and then install Linux. It happened to me.

> From
> http://www.hut.fi/~tkarvine/linux-windows-dual-boot-res...
[...]
O.K., from a document referenced there:

Primer:
There is a bug in Fedora Core 2 that causes the hard disk
geometry as reported in the partition table to be altered during
installation. This change may cause Windows boot failure. Although
this bug is severe, it is recoverable and no data should be lost. It
is important not to panic if and when this happens so you do not cause
further problems or cause actual loss of data in the process of
recovering from the error.

This is not a Linux or Kernel issue. This is a broken installer that
does the partitioning wrong. I never experienced this problem. I now
have a 2.6 kernel on all my systems. However I do all my partitioning
manually with Linux fdisk. I have heard that some of the fdisk
alternatives can cause this problem but was not interested enough to
investigate, since fdisk works well.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
October 9, 2004 2:15:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Matt <matt@themattfella.zzzz.com> wrote:

>>chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>> You guys do know, of course, that the latest versions (2.6 kernel) of
>>> Linux will render you Windows partition unbootable? This is well
>>> documented. Happened to me with Fedora C2.
>>
>>Hey that's funny, I've got XP, Fedora Core 2, and SUSE 9.1 (2.6 kernel)
>>all bootable on the same machine.

> Here's another link:

> http://lwn.net/Articles/86835/

This is the FC2 problem.

> and another

> http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2004/05/fhassel_windows_n...
From this: " ... The partitioning tool parted, which YaST uses during
the installation, may write an incorrect partition table...."

Yes, parted has problems with a 2.6 kernel and windows partitions.
But they are parted's problems, not kernel problems. I also find
parted a quite scary tool, since you do not get verification
questions on dangerous operations.

As I said, these are bad installers using partitioning tools that have
issues with 2.6. I have had no problems at all partitioning for
Windows with Linux fdisk. And fdisk does not do any changes to disk
until you quit it, a feature I like very much. Of course fdisk is
quite old and has some issues. For example it still sticks to the
notion of cylinders. parted does away with them and just uses size.

Maybe one additional comment for SuSE: I used SuSE until lasst year,
when I finally got fed-up with their unability to perfrom reliable
updates between different versions. I am now running Debian without
these problems.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
!