CPU Temp: 13C

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

I have just updated the drivers for my MSI K8T Neo mobo, updated my BIOS and
updated the MSI "CoreCenter" monitoring software.

CoreCenter and the BIOS both give me temperature readings for my CPU. Before
the updates the BIOS and CoreCenter reported my CPU as having temperatures
of between 39C and 51C depending on the room temp and what I was doing. This
seemed a fairly normal temperature and I was satisfied with it.

However since the updates my CPU temperature has went way down according to
this software. When I go into the BIOS it's reporting the temp as 19C. When
I'm sitting idle in Windows XP - as I am now - it's sitting at 13C! I tested
it by encoding a large MP3 and it went up to 27C after 5 mins of encoding.

I have CoolNQuiet (http://www.amdboard.com/coolnquiet.html) switched on and
an Athlon-64 3400 Clawhammer (2.2GHz) with a Arctic Cooling Silencer 64 fan.
Can this be real? I'm concerned that the temps are being misreported...
36 answers Last reply
More about temp
  1. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Jack wrote:
    > I have just updated the drivers for my MSI K8T Neo mobo, updated my BIOS and
    > updated the MSI "CoreCenter" monitoring software.
    >
    > CoreCenter and the BIOS both give me temperature readings for my CPU. Before
    > the updates the BIOS and CoreCenter reported my CPU as having temperatures
    > of between 39C and 51C depending on the room temp and what I was doing. This
    > seemed a fairly normal temperature and I was satisfied with it.
    >
    > However since the updates my CPU temperature has went way down according to
    > this software. When I go into the BIOS it's reporting the temp as 19C. When
    > I'm sitting idle in Windows XP - as I am now - it's sitting at 13C! I tested
    > it by encoding a large MP3 and it went up to 27C after 5 mins of encoding.
    >
    > I have CoolNQuiet (http://www.amdboard.com/coolnquiet.html) switched on and
    > an Athlon-64 3400 Clawhammer (2.2GHz) with a Arctic Cooling Silencer 64 fan.
    > Can this be real? I'm concerned that the temps are being misreported...
    >
    >

    Have you checked the release notes for the BIOS and CoreCenter updates
    that you installed? It could be that the old versions were misreporting
    the temps.

    Parish
  2. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Parish" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    news:363uqiF4pv6flU1@individual.net...
    >
    > Have you checked the release notes for the BIOS and CoreCenter updates
    > that you installed? It could be that the old versions were misreporting
    > the temps.

    I just did and one of the fixes was a misreported CPU temperature. :)
  3. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Jack wrote:
    > "Parish" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    > news:363uqiF4pv6flU1@individual.net...
    >>
    >> Have you checked the release notes for the BIOS and CoreCenter updates
    >> that you installed? It could be that the old versions were misreporting
    >> the temps.
    >
    > I just did and one of the fixes was a misreported CPU temperature. :)
    >
    >

    Well AMD must have done some good design work with the 64 then if it
    only hots 27C after 5 mins of MP3 encoding. Athlon XPs were very hot
    chips - my dual MP2800s idle at 45-50 depending on room temp, although
    they don't get much hotter when worked hard, thankfully :-)

    Parish
  4. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Parish" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    news:363vnmF4qh5v8U1@individual.net...
    > Jack wrote:
    >> "Parish" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    >> news:363uqiF4pv6flU1@individual.net...
    >>>
    >>> Have you checked the release notes for the BIOS and CoreCenter updates
    >>> that you installed? It could be that the old versions were misreporting
    >>> the temps.
    >>
    >> I just did and one of the fixes was a misreported CPU temperature. :)
    >
    > Well AMD must have done some good design work with the 64 then if it only
    > hots 27C after 5 mins of MP3 encoding. Athlon XPs were very hot chips - my
    > dual MP2800s idle at 45-50 depending on room temp, although they don't get
    > much hotter when worked hard, thankfully :-)

    Hence the reason for my concern. I previously had an Athlon XP 2000 and it
    ran anywhere between 40C and 60C - therefore my new chip running at 13C is
    worryingly low for me... I find it hard to believe it's correct. :)
  5. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Jack" <jack@hello.com> wrote in message
    news:363va7F4qe5urU1@individual.net...
    > "Parish" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    > news:363uqiF4pv6flU1@individual.net...
    >>
    >> Have you checked the release notes for the BIOS and CoreCenter updates
    >> that you installed? It could be that the old versions were misreporting
    >> the temps.
    >
    > I just did and one of the fixes was a misreported CPU temperature. :)
    Of all the PC's I've built, the only ones to consistently misreport temps
    are the ones based on MSI boards!

    SteveH
  6. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Jack wrote:

    > "Parish" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    > news:363vnmF4qh5v8U1@individual.net...
    > > Jack wrote:
    > >> "Parish" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    > >> news:363uqiF4pv6flU1@individual.net...
    > > > >
    > >>> Have you checked the release notes for the BIOS and CoreCenter
    > updates >>> that you installed? It could be that the old versions
    > were misreporting >>> the temps.
    > > >
    > >> I just did and one of the fixes was a misreported CPU temperature.
    > :)
    > >
    > > Well AMD must have done some good design work with the 64 then if
    > > it only hots 27C after 5 mins of MP3 encoding. Athlon XPs were very
    > > hot chips - my dual MP2800s idle at 45-50 depending on room temp,
    > > although they don't get much hotter when worked hard, thankfully :-)
    >
    > Hence the reason for my concern. I previously had an Athlon XP 2000
    > and it ran anywhere between 40C and 60C - therefore my new chip
    > running at 13C is worryingly low for me... I find it hard to believe
    > it's correct. :)

    You're not the only one! I've got a 64 3500 on an Abit AV8 which idles
    at 36C with Cool'n'Quiet clocking the multiplier at 5. Under load it
    goes up to 68C. That's with a fairly mild overclock of 216FSB & all
    voltages at their standard settings. Abit & MSI must read the temps in
    very different ways...

    One thing that threw me when I first started using Cool'n'Quiet was how
    some apps didn't make the temps go up despite causing 100% CPU usage.
    Then I discovered that the multiplier stays at 5 if the app uses a task
    priority of 'Low'.

    --
    Preston.

    http://www.muddystuff.co.uk
    Off-road classifieds
  7. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    > Hence the reason for my concern. I previously had an Athlon XP 2000 and it
    > ran anywhere between 40C and 60C - therefore my new chip running at 13C is
    > worryingly low for me... I find it hard to believe it's correct. :)

    What's your ambient temperature? If it's above 13°C (very likely) and you are
    not using Peltier or phase change cooling then a false temperature reading is
    the only possibility left I would say.

    David
  8. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "David Johnstone" <david_ffm@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:ctijfk$mq1$00$1@news.t-online.com...
    >
    >> Hence the reason for my concern. I previously had an Athlon XP 2000 and
    >> it
    >> ran anywhere between 40C and 60C - therefore my new chip running at 13C
    >> is
    >> worryingly low for me... I find it hard to believe it's correct. :)
    >
    > What's your ambient temperature?

    Above 13C. ;)

    > If it's above 13°C (very likely) and you are
    > not using Peltier or phase change cooling then a false temperature reading
    > is
    > the only possibility left I would say.

    Yeah. I'll look out for another BIOS update then...
  9. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On 30 Jan 2005 11:14:01 GMT, "Jack" <jack@hello.com> wrote:

    >I have CoolNQuiet (http://www.amdboard.com/coolnquiet.html)

    Anything like this for a none 64 Bit Xp chip, I'd love to get mine
    down a bit in the shuttle ?

    --
    arjftebhcf@jryfutbi.pb.hx<--ROT13 it
    Spam Trap in Header

    Child Birth is hereditary,
    If your parents didn't have any children
    Then the chances are you wont.


    http://borg.no-ip.com
  10. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Jack wrote:
    > "Parish" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    >> Jack wrote:
    >>> "Parish" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    >>>>
    >>>> Have you checked the release notes for the BIOS and CoreCenter
    >>>> updates that you installed? It could be that the old versions
    >>>> were misreporting the temps.
    >>>
    >>> I just did and one of the fixes was a misreported CPU
    >>> temperature. :)
    >>
    >> Well AMD must have done some good design work with the 64 then if
    >> it only hots 27C after 5 mins of MP3 encoding. Athlon XPs were
    >> very hot chips - my dual MP2800s idle at 45-50 depending on room
    >> temp, although they don't get much hotter when worked hard,
    >> thankfully :-)
    >
    > Hence the reason for my concern. I previously had an Athlon XP 2000
    > and it ran anywhere between 40C and 60C - therefore my new chip
    > running at 13C is worryingly low for me... I find it hard to
    > believe it's correct. :)

    Considering that room temperature is about 20 C, and that very few
    CPUs function as refrigerators, the possibility of your system
    being correct becomes vanishingly small.

    --
    "If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
    the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
    "show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
    "Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
  11. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    >
    > Considering that room temperature is about 20 C, and that very few
    > CPUs function as refrigerators, the possibility of your system
    > being correct becomes vanishingly small.
    >
    He could be an Inuit. Brings a whole new meaning to Artic Silver!
  12. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On 30 Jan 2005 11:56:49 GMT, "Jack" <jack@hello.com> wrote:

    | "Parish" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    | news:363vnmF4qh5v8U1@individual.net...
    | > Jack wrote:
    | >> "Parish" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    | >> news:363uqiF4pv6flU1@individual.net...
    | >>>
    | >>> Have you checked the release notes for the BIOS and CoreCenter updates
    | >>> that you installed? It could be that the old versions were misreporting
    | >>> the temps.
    | >>
    | >> I just did and one of the fixes was a misreported CPU temperature. :)
    | >
    | > Well AMD must have done some good design work with the 64 then if it only
    | > hots 27C after 5 mins of MP3 encoding. Athlon XPs were very hot chips - my
    | > dual MP2800s idle at 45-50 depending on room temp, although they don't get
    | > much hotter when worked hard, thankfully :-)
    |
    | Hence the reason for my concern. I previously had an Athlon XP 2000 and it
    | ran anywhere between 40C and 60C - therefore my new chip running at 13C is
    | worryingly low for me... I find it hard to believe it's correct. :)

    It's not correct unless your system is in a very cold room! 13C
    (55.4F) probably wouldn't even occur in an operating computer in an
    igloo!

    Larc


    §§§ - Change planet to earth to reply by email - §§§
  13. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Hi Jack, why dont you check the temperatures with a Digital thermometer
    also some Digital Multi Meters have a thermometer function too.

    Yes 13%C does seem a bit too low for my liking too, likewise i have a ASUS
    A7V600-X with and overheating Via KT600 chipset, the bios and Everest
    reports about 30%C, rarly changes (sometimes it jumps 20-30%C in a single
    step), but my DMM reports between 28 from cold rising 1%C every 3 seconds
    to 55%C just sitting idle, under load it rises to 65%C, the DMM sensor is
    placed in bottom of HS on the top side opposite the core.

    Cpu: XP3200+ 26 - 35 idle, 36 - 55%C under load
    chipset: 28 - 55 idle, 56 - 65%C, (highest recorded so far)
    HDD: 18 - 25%C
    Room: 18 - 22%C
    --
    Andrew Mcintosh
    ASI Industries = Alpha Soft International Industries. (1990 - 1995)
    ASI Industries = As i in does tries! (1996 - current date)
  14. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Jack" <jack@hello.com> wrote in message
    news:3645dpF4t85smU1@individual.net...
    > "David Johnstone" <david_ffm@mail.com> wrote in message
    > news:ctijfk$mq1$00$1@news.t-online.com...
    > >
    > >> Hence the reason for my concern. I previously had an Athlon XP 2000 and
    > >> it
    > >> ran anywhere between 40C and 60C - therefore my new chip running at 13C
    > >> is
    > >> worryingly low for me... I find it hard to believe it's correct. :)
    > >
    > > What's your ambient temperature?
    >
    > Above 13C. ;)
    >
    > > If it's above 13°C (very likely) and you are
    > > not using Peltier or phase change cooling then a false temperature
    reading
    > > is
    > > the only possibility left I would say.
    >
    > Yeah. I'll look out for another BIOS update then...

    Make sure you don't have any other monitoring software installed
    too (eg the old version, or MBM5 etc) as they usually (always?)
    interfere with each other - a problem with the design of the SMbus,
    I think.
    HTH
    --
    Rob
  15. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:50:29 GMT, "ASI Industries"
    <ASIIndustries@(removeme)asi-industries.freeserve.co.uk>
    wrote:

    >Hi Jack, why dont you check the temperatures with a Digital thermometer
    >also some Digital Multi Meters have a thermometer function too.
    >
    >Yes 13%C does seem a bit too low for my liking too, likewise i have a ASUS
    >A7V600-X with and overheating Via KT600 chipset, the bios and Everest
    >reports about 30%C, rarly changes (sometimes it jumps 20-30%C in a single
    >step), but my DMM reports between 28 from cold rising 1%C every 3 seconds
    >to 55%C just sitting idle, under load it rises to 65%C, the DMM sensor is
    >placed in bottom of HS on the top side opposite the core.
    >
    >Cpu: XP3200+ 26 - 35 idle, 36 - 55%C under load
    >chipset: 28 - 55 idle, 56 - 65%C, (highest recorded so far)
    >HDD: 18 - 25%C
    >Room: 18 - 22%C

    65C is not "overheating", it is within the specs for the
    chip. It's actually a good compromise to have a stable chip
    with passive cooling, rather than one cooler than it needs
    be, with the added noise and maintenance of a fan.

    Even so, sometimes the 'sink interface isn't too good.
    Sadly it's even common for boards to have a thermal
    interface material that doesn't even touch the center
    heat-spreader of (chips incorporating such a spreader) due
    to it being sunk below the plane of the outer epoxy
    (carrier) border.

    If it's really bothering you, taking off the 'sink and
    checking the interface is one option, perhaps it can be
    improved. I have an A7V600 and note no overheating
    problems. The 'sink is fairly warm but so are most chipsets
    @ 200MHz/DDR400 FSB and higher.
  16. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Jack writes:

    > I have CoolNQuiet (http://www.amdboard.com/coolnquiet.html) switched on and
    > an Athlon-64 3400 Clawhammer (2.2GHz) with a Arctic Cooling Silencer 64 fan.
    > Can this be real? I'm concerned that the temps are being misreported...

    Unless you are using active cooling (like a refrigeration system), the
    CPU temperature cannot be less than that of the ambient air; and usually
    it will be well above it.

    My poorly-designed desktop runs with its Athlon processor between 53°
    and 64° C. It used to be even worse, until I added a case fan (which
    the manufacturer was too cheap to install).

    In my old server, which was exactly the same kind of box, the BIOS
    couldn't display more than two digits for temperatures in Celsius. When
    the OS got stuck in a loop after the CPU fan failed, the temperature
    reached at least 114° C (240° F), but the BIOS displayed only two digits
    (fortunately, it also gave the temperature in Fahrenheit with three
    digits, which is how I knew what was happening--although the smell gave
    it away, too).

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    kony writes:

    > 65C is not "overheating", it is within the specs for the
    > chip. It's actually a good compromise to have a stable chip
    > with passive cooling, rather than one cooler than it needs
    > be, with the added noise and maintenance of a fan.

    Cooler components last longer, although most PCs are probably dumped
    before added heat damages the components. A processor that runs hot
    will very gradually deteriorate over the years as dopants tend to drift
    more quickly in the chip. However, except in the case of processors
    that truly overheated, I've not seen processors fail. If they run for
    48 hours, they'll run forever. But why take chances by running them any
    hotter than necessary?

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
  18. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 04:07:35 +0100, Mxsmanic
    <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >kony writes:
    >
    >> 65C is not "overheating", it is within the specs for the
    >> chip. It's actually a good compromise to have a stable chip
    >> with passive cooling, rather than one cooler than it needs
    >> be, with the added noise and maintenance of a fan.
    >
    >Cooler components last longer, although most PCs are probably dumped
    >before added heat damages the components. A processor that runs hot
    >will very gradually deteriorate over the years as dopants tend to drift
    >more quickly in the chip. However, except in the case of processors
    >that truly overheated, I've not seen processors fail. If they run for
    >48 hours, they'll run forever. But why take chances by running them any
    >hotter than necessary?

    Then what solution to you propose? Fans have far shorter
    lifespan than the ICs.

    There may indeed be a chance it won't then last 30 years,
    but IMO, the principle focus should always be the earlier
    failure points rather than the latter... fans, caps,
    mechanical switchs and contacts are more likely to cause
    failure at which point the systems aren't worth the time or
    expense to fix (if it's even reasonable to track down some
    of the older parts beyond proprietary industrial
    applications).
  19. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "BORG" <borg@deadspam.com> wrote in message
    news:nf0qv01n80en6p577sn8rn1ghovl8orp0s@4ax.com...
    > On 30 Jan 2005 11:14:01 GMT, "Jack" <jack@hello.com> wrote:
    >
    >>I have CoolNQuiet (http://www.amdboard.com/coolnquiet.html)
    >
    > Anything like this for a none 64 Bit Xp chip, I'd love to get mine
    > down a bit in the shuttle ?

    Nope, its a feature of the processor/mobo

    >
    > --
    > arjftebhcf@jryfutbi.pb.hx<--ROT13 it
    > Spam Trap in Header
    >
    > Child Birth is hereditary,
    > If your parents didn't have any children
    > Then the chances are you wont.
    >
    >
    > http://borg.no-ip.com
  20. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:49:38 +0000, BORG <borg@deadspam.com>
    wrote:

    >On 30 Jan 2005 11:14:01 GMT, "Jack" <jack@hello.com> wrote:
    >
    >>I have CoolNQuiet (http://www.amdboard.com/coolnquiet.html)
    >
    >Anything like this for a none 64 Bit Xp chip, I'd love to get mine
    >down a bit in the shuttle ?

    Athlon XP can use HALT idle cooling with an OS that supports
    ACPI. Some boards allow enabling it in the bios (might be
    called "S2K" but others require software to program chipset
    registers (like WPCREdit, WPCRSet). Google search for it
    including phrases like "<name of your shuttle board's
    chipset> HLT cooling"
  21. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    kony writes:

    > Then what solution to you propose?

    Fans, and several of them. On my homebuilt server, there are seven
    fans. Three in the power supply (supplied with the PSU), one on the
    processor (supplied with the processor), plus three 8-cm fans I added:
    two in the front blowing air into the case and drawing it through a
    filter, arranged to blow past the disk drives, and one on the side of
    the case over the processor, blowing air down over the processor and
    drawing it through a filter. So three fans take air in, and one takes
    it out, which should create slight positive pressure (the remaining air
    just flows out the top and back of the case).

    I figure that the machine should still be safe with any single fan
    failure, and possibly with two fan failures. The Intel processor
    protects itself if the fan fails; the rest of the machine has multiple
    fans so that the PSU and MB should be kept acceptably cool even if one
    of them drops out.

    > Fans have far shorter lifespan than the ICs.

    That's why I have more fans than I need. If one fails, the machine
    won't cook (unlike its predecessor, whose AMD processor did exactly that
    when the CPU fan failed). I'm very aware of the sound they make and any
    change alerts me; I also explicitly check to see if air is flowing
    through them periodically.

    Needless to say, I don't care about noise. I actually like hearing
    components running, because it makes it possible to detect when they
    stop running. Over all three machines, I have some 13 fans running.

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
  22. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    I'm seeing the same behavior on my MSI K8T Neo2-FIR mobo. The board
    shipped with BIOS version 3.0. The CPU and system temperatures reported
    by the BIOS in PC Health Status and by Core Center were in agreement at
    around 39 and 34 deg. C, respectively, when the CPU is idle. The CPU
    temp. under 100% CPU load was 47 deg. C.

    Then I upgraded to BIOS 3.2 which has a fix for "BIOS reporting
    incorrect CPU temperature". After that, the CPU temperature reported by
    Core Center varies wildly from 11 to 29 deg. C while the system
    temperature is around 30 deg. C. Meanwhile, PC Health Status in the
    BIOS reports 34 for CPU and 30 for system. The ambient air temperature
    outside the PC is 19 deg. C.

    I upgraded to BIOS 3.3, and the behavior is the same 3.2. I have been
    e-mailing MSI Tech Support, but I had a hard time convincing the rep.
    that there is a bug in the BIOS or Core Center as demonstrated by the
    discrepancy in CPU temp. reported by the two. After many attempts, he
    sent me a newer version of the BIOS today. I'll try it tonight, but I'm
    not holding my breath.

    Kevin


    Jack wrote:
    > I have just updated the drivers for my MSI K8T Neo mobo, updated my
    BIOS and
    > updated the MSI "CoreCenter" monitoring software.
    >
    > CoreCenter and the BIOS both give me temperature readings for my CPU.
    Before
    > the updates the BIOS and CoreCenter reported my CPU as having
    temperatures
    > of between 39C and 51C depending on the room temp and what I was
    doing. This
    > seemed a fairly normal temperature and I was satisfied with it.
    >
    > However since the updates my CPU temperature has went way down
    according to
    > this software. When I go into the BIOS it's reporting the temp as
    19C. When
    > I'm sitting idle in Windows XP - as I am now - it's sitting at 13C! I
    tested
    > it by encoding a large MP3 and it went up to 27C after 5 mins of
    encoding.
    >
    > I have CoolNQuiet (http://www.amdboard.com/coolnquiet.html) switched
    on and
    > an Athlon-64 3400 Clawhammer (2.2GHz) with a Arctic Cooling Silencer
    64 fan.
    > Can this be real? I'm concerned that the temps are being
    misreported...
  23. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:54:43 +0100, Mxsmanic
    <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >kony writes:
    >
    >> Then what solution to you propose?
    >
    >Fans, and several of them. On my homebuilt server, there are seven
    >fans. Three in the power supply (supplied with the PSU), one on the
    >processor (supplied with the processor), plus three 8-cm fans I added:
    >two in the front blowing air into the case and drawing it through a
    >filter, arranged to blow past the disk drives, and one on the side of
    >the case over the processor, blowing air down over the processor and
    >drawing it through a filter. So three fans take air in, and one takes
    >it out, which should create slight positive pressure (the remaining air
    >just flows out the top and back of the case).
    >

    Ok, if the heat (or RPM reduction for reduced noise)
    warrants that many fans, but those fans will not reduce the
    northbridge temp much, if we're going under the presumption
    that the case was already properly ventilated. Even with
    the fans, most likely each and every fan would fail long
    before the northbridge. Perhaps not while machine is newer
    and valuable enough to be well-kept, but given enough time,
    it's not likely anyone would find use or value in the system
    by the time it's THAT old.


    >I figure that the machine should still be safe with any single fan
    >failure, and possibly with two fan failures. The Intel processor
    >protects itself if the fan fails; the rest of the machine has multiple
    >fans so that the PSU and MB should be kept acceptably cool even if one
    >of them drops out.

    That is a good idea, so long as it suits your needs. I buy
    fans by the case so I too can do this at reasonable cost
    without sacrificing fan quality, but I regularly see people
    paying upwards of $10 per fan - buying fewer because they
    have not the budget or inclination to add so many fans.

    >
    >> Fans have far shorter lifespan than the ICs.
    >
    >That's why I have more fans than I need. If one fails, the machine
    >won't cook (unlike its predecessor, whose AMD processor did exactly that
    >when the CPU fan failed). I'm very aware of the sound they make and any
    >change alerts me; I also explicitly check to see if air is flowing
    >through them periodically.
    >
    >Needless to say, I don't care about noise. I actually like hearing
    >components running, because it makes it possible to detect when they
    >stop running. Over all three machines, I have some 13 fans running.

    This may be where we differ somewhat, I don't have a single
    fan running at over (roughly) 3000 RPM, and only then on a
    couple of overclocked gaming video cards where there is more
    of a space constraint. Usually I'll want an optimized fan
    RPM such that it reduces dust builtup and bearing wear even
    on remote systems outside of audible range. The noisiest
    things in some/most of my audible systems are WD
    ball-bearing based hard drives, but fortunately WD has now
    switched over to all fluid bearing models AFAIK.
  24. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Hi Kony, sorry i forgot to mention when the chipset got to 65%C, (3 hours
    playing heavy 3d games), the mainboard heat protection system cut in and
    switched the system off, even though i disabled the heat sensors in the
    bios!

    The board is not in a case, just sitting on a worktop, i have replaced the
    thermal compound, that made no difference, added a chipset fan, that
    doubled the time before it crashes (6 hours playing heavy 3d games),
    replaced the stock hs with a Zalman Zm-nb47j hs (its 4x the size of stock
    hs and wieghs 54g) it reduced the temperature overall by 6%C.

    Relocated the 12cm fan to cover both cpu hs and Zalman chipset hs brings
    the
    temperature down around 22 - 26%C and the stock hs brings the temperature
    down around 28 - 35%C, currently using Zalman Cnps6000b-cu cpu hsf.

    >65C is not "overheating", it is within the specs for the chip.
    Can you provide any urls for the specifications of the Via Kt600
    northbridge chipset?
    --
    Andrew Mcintosh
    ASI Industries = Alpha Soft International Industries. (1990 - 1995)
    ASI Industries = As i in does tries! (1996 - current date)
  25. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    kony writes:

    > Ok, if the heat (or RPM reduction for reduced noise)
    > warrants that many fans, but those fans will not reduce the
    > northbridge temp much, if we're going under the presumption
    > that the case was already properly ventilated. Even with
    > the fans, most likely each and every fan would fail long
    > before the northbridge. Perhaps not while machine is newer
    > and valuable enough to be well-kept, but given enough time,
    > it's not likely anyone would find use or value in the system
    > by the time it's THAT old.

    My idea is that any single fan failure will not damage the machine, even
    a CPU or PSU fan failure. If you have a configuration in which the
    failure of a certain fan will damage the system, then you risk your
    entire investment on the reliability of a component that will inevitably
    fail.

    And systems can retain use and value indefinitely. If they do the job
    they are intended to do, there's no reason why they can't remain in use
    for twenty years or more. I have a very well designed and built HP
    Vectra on my desk that has been running continuously for eight years
    without a hiccup.

    > That is a good idea, so long as it suits your needs. I buy
    > fans by the case so I too can do this at reasonable cost
    > without sacrificing fan quality, but I regularly see people
    > paying upwards of $10 per fan - buying fewer because they
    > have not the budget or inclination to add so many fans.

    Ten dollars isn't much to save a $200 motherboard or a $200
    microprocessor (or multiple components).

    > This may be where we differ somewhat, I don't have a single
    > fan running at over (roughly) 3000 RPM, and only then on a
    > couple of overclocked gaming video cards where there is more
    > of a space constraint. Usually I'll want an optimized fan
    > RPM such that it reduces dust builtup and bearing wear even
    > on remote systems outside of audible range.

    Dust builds up in areas where the air flow is slowing, not in areas of
    high flow. The places that receive the strongest air currents are never
    the places that contain the dust--it's always hiding in crannies where
    the air slows down.

    Also, if you put filters on the incoming air, you can greatly reduce
    dust (although I'm still looking for ideal filters).

    > The noisiest
    > things in some/most of my audible systems are WD
    > ball-bearing based hard drives, but fortunately WD has now
    > switched over to all fluid bearing models AFAIK.

    Will those bearings last as long as ball bearings?

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
  26. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    > Hi Kony, sorry i forgot to mention when the chipset got to 65%C, (3 hours
    > playing heavy 3d games) ...

    The entire chipset on the MB, or just the processor?

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
  27. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 22:30:09 +0100, Mxsmanic
    <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >kony writes:
    >
    >> Ok, if the heat (or RPM reduction for reduced noise)
    >> warrants that many fans, but those fans will not reduce the
    >> northbridge temp much, if we're going under the presumption
    >> that the case was already properly ventilated. Even with
    >> the fans, most likely each and every fan would fail long
    >> before the northbridge. Perhaps not while machine is newer
    >> and valuable enough to be well-kept, but given enough time,
    >> it's not likely anyone would find use or value in the system
    >> by the time it's THAT old.
    >
    >My idea is that any single fan failure will not damage the machine, even
    >a CPU or PSU fan failure. If you have a configuration in which the
    >failure of a certain fan will damage the system, then you risk your
    >entire investment on the reliability of a component that will inevitably
    >fail.

    Possibly but many components that would be susceptible to
    this also have a thermal shutdown mechanism.

    >
    >And systems can retain use and value indefinitely. If they do the job
    >they are intended to do, there's no reason why they can't remain in use
    >for twenty years or more. I have a very well designed and built HP
    >Vectra on my desk that has been running continuously for eight years
    >without a hiccup.

    That's not really true, they become a liability after about
    5 years due to mechanical connections and capacitor rot.
    Additionally I don't expect today's systems to last nearly
    as long as (say an old 486 did). Even with quite a few
    fans the mechanical and cap issues may be higher.

    >
    >> That is a good idea, so long as it suits your needs. I buy
    >> fans by the case so I too can do this at reasonable cost
    >> without sacrificing fan quality, but I regularly see people
    >> paying upwards of $10 per fan - buying fewer because they
    >> have not the budget or inclination to add so many fans.
    >
    >Ten dollars isn't much to save a $200 motherboard or a $200
    >microprocessor (or multiple components).

    But per your example, it'd be 7 x $10. I have a system or
    two or three (lost count) with 7 or more fans but dont' see
    this too often due to case manufacturers limiting fan
    numbers as a cost-reduction. Many people would not pay $70
    more for same case with more fans already in it, even if it
    saved them the cost of adding the fans. While it can be a
    good idea, it may not be so necessary with good fans and
    thermal managment. It is pretty rare for a good
    sleeve-bearing fan to fail within the first few years (like
    Panaflo) unless driven at very high RPM. After the first
    few years, each person may not place same value on their
    systems as you do, because again they see some that aren't
    so expensive with fewer fans.

    >
    >> This may be where we differ somewhat, I don't have a single
    >> fan running at over (roughly) 3000 RPM, and only then on a
    >> couple of overclocked gaming video cards where there is more
    >> of a space constraint. Usually I'll want an optimized fan
    >> RPM such that it reduces dust builtup and bearing wear even
    >> on remote systems outside of audible range.
    >
    >Dust builds up in areas where the air flow is slowing, not in areas of
    >high flow. The places that receive the strongest air currents are never
    >the places that contain the dust--it's always hiding in crannies where
    >the air slows down.

    While that's a nice theory, in practice the dust builds up
    everywhere. Evidence includes dust buildup on the fan
    blades themselves, certainly not an area of slowing air
    flow. Overall a higher flow through the chassis will always
    result in more dust accumulation.


    >Also, if you put filters on the incoming air, you can greatly reduce
    >dust (although I'm still looking for ideal filters).

    Me too, ideal filters are restrictive enough on flow that
    the last case I put one in was using a filter area of
    roughly 3-4X the area of the intake fans. Then keeping a
    positive pressurization on the case to keep all intake
    filtered means either louder intake fans, more frequent
    filter exchange, or exhaust fan reduction at certain
    interval (or sealing up ever other nook and cranny on the
    case).

    >
    >> The noisiest
    >> things in some/most of my audible systems are WD
    >> ball-bearing based hard drives, but fortunately WD has now
    >> switched over to all fluid bearing models AFAIK.
    >
    >Will those bearings last as long as ball bearings?

    Only time will tell? They seem to imply they're more
    reliable, but when would a manufacturer not claim this about
    product changes?
  28. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 20:12:43 GMT, "ASI Industries"
    <ASIIndustries@(removeme)asi-industries.freeserve.co.uk>
    wrote:

    >Hi Kony, sorry i forgot to mention when the chipset got to 65%C, (3 hours
    >playing heavy 3d games), the mainboard heat protection system cut in and
    >switched the system off, even though i disabled the heat sensors in the
    >bios!

    Hmm, I didn't remember there being a way to disable the heat
    sensors. Perhaps you mean the thermal shutoff for the CPU?
    Are you running the PCProbe software? Maybe that is the
    reason for the shutdown?

    >
    >The board is not in a case, just sitting on a worktop,

    Is this how it was all along? Perhaps that 's it, your CPU
    heatsink is simply recirculating same pre-heated air around
    the northbridge.

    >i have replaced the
    >thermal compound, that made no difference, added a chipset fan, that
    >doubled the time before it crashes (6 hours playing heavy 3d games),
    >replaced the stock hs with a Zalman Zm-nb47j hs (its 4x the size of stock
    >hs and wieghs 54g) it reduced the temperature overall by 6%C.

    It has now dawned on me that your board didn't have the tall
    silver Asus heatsink but rather the shorther dark-colored
    one? Mine has the silver one and has done fine with it...
    but it doesn't explain why you're not seeing good results
    with the Zalman.

    >
    >Relocated the 12cm fan to cover both cpu hs and Zalman chipset hs brings
    >the
    >temperature down around 22 - 26%C and the stock hs brings the temperature
    >down around 28 - 35%C, currently using Zalman Cnps6000b-cu cpu hsf.
    >
    >>65C is not "overheating", it is within the specs for the chip.
    >Can you provide any urls for the specifications of the Via Kt600
    >northbridge chipset?

    No I don't see one available to the public on Via's website,
    but there aren't any that have lower than 80-85C, usually
    higher, that I recall. Granted that many not rule out
    instability but from time to time I'll drop in on some
    motherboard forums and had not noticed any significant rate
    of these boards overheating... but then I wasn't looking for
    such data since mine isn't overheating? Right now PCProbe
    reports it @ 36C. Upon feeling the heatsink that figure
    seems close enough to accurate, ie- it's certainly not at ~
    65C.
  29. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Hi Mxsmanic, no just the Via KT600 NB SHS.

    Anyway i just borrowed a multi-temperature data logger, the unit measures
    16 sensors at the same time.

    Two test were done one with the SHS and the othe with the ZHS, with 1 hour
    cool-off period between tests.

    Sensor: Idle: Avg: Fail: OBI: Avg: OBF:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ----------------
    Cpu core: 36 50 65 26 35 28
    Cpu HS: 26 43 60
    KT600 NB core: 38 62 86 27 30 32
    KT600 NB SHS: 28 47 76
    KT600 NB ZHS: 24 47 76
    KT600 SB core: 22 22 22
    Vga core: 45 50 52 45 48 52
    Vga HS: 40 44 48
    Vga memory: 35 40 45 39 42 42
    HDD: 16 16 16 16 16 16
    Memory: 22 22 22
    Room: 22 22 22

    Notes: The tests began roughly 30 secs after Win XP loaded.
    Everest v2.00.254 for onboard sensors for (cpu, system (usually NB) and
    HDD).
    Everest v2.00.254 Download http://tinyurl.com/4trst
    Asus Smartdoctor v4.60 for onboard onboard sensors for (GPU and memory).
    HDD is cooled via PSU.
    SHS = Stock HeatSink, ZHS = Zalman ZM-NB47J HeatSink
    NB = North Bridge, SB = South Bridge
    OBI = OnBoard Idle, OBF = OnBoard Fail

    System details:
    ASUSTEK A7V600-X, Rev 1.0, Bios 1007. http://tinyurl.com/6v3xd
    Amd XP3200+ Barton (2200mhz 11x 200).
    Asus V9999GT /TD128 (Nvidia 6800GT) driver 71.24.
    http://tinyurl.com/6gvkc
    1024mb 2x Corsair value ddr400 512mb, matched pair Cas 2.5:3-3-8.
    Zalman Cnps6000-cu.
    http://tinyurl.com/4fxu4
    Zalman ZM-NB47J.
    http://tinyurl.com/2x2qf
    Windows XP.SP1 DX9.0c
    Qtec 400wt dual fan psu (+3+5=180 / +12=192 / 372).
    +3.3v = 3.34, +5v = 5.12, +12v = 12.12.
    Floppy, Nec ND3500A dual dvd rw, Samsung SP0411N 40gb HDD pata 100.
    --
    Andrew Mcintosh
    ASI Industries = Alpha Soft International Industries. (1990 - 1995)
    ASI Industries = As i in does tries! (1996 - current date)
  30. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    kony writes:

    > That's not really true, they become a liability after about
    > 5 years due to mechanical connections and capacitor rot.

    I've never seen an MB fail in the absence of something that damaged it
    (heat, water, etc.). While components do fail, most people never wait
    for it to happen, and methodically replace machines while they are still
    in perfect working order.

    > Additionally I don't expect today's systems to last nearly
    > as long as (say an old 486 did).

    Why not?

    > But per your example, it'd be 7 x $10.

    That's $70, compared to over $850 for the entire system.

    > It is pretty rare for a good
    > sleeve-bearing fan to fail within the first few years (like
    > Panaflo) unless driven at very high RPM.

    After being burned by sleeve bearings (so to speak), I now use only
    ball-bearing fans.

    > While that's a nice theory, in practice the dust builds up
    > everywhere.

    It's what I've observed from experience, not theory. The air has to
    move slowly for the dust to settle out, so the places where there is a
    slowing of the air or similar turbulence are where the dust collects.

    > Evidence includes dust buildup on the fan
    > blades themselves, certainly not an area of slowing air
    > flow.

    But it is an area of slowing air flow, along trailing edges that
    generate vortices.

    > Overall a higher flow through the chassis will always
    > result in more dust accumulation.

    Whence the interest of using filters. Now if only I could find good
    filters.

    > Only time will tell? They seem to imply they're more
    > reliable, but when would a manufacturer not claim this about
    > product changes?

    I'll wait and see, then. I know ball bearings last a long time. I'll
    let someone else be the pioneer with new types of bearings.

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
  31. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 06:41:59 +0100, Mxsmanic
    <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >kony writes:
    >
    >> That's not really true, they become a liability after about
    >> 5 years due to mechanical connections and capacitor rot.
    >
    >I've never seen an MB fail in the absence of something that damaged it
    >(heat, water, etc.). While components do fail, most people never wait
    >for it to happen, and methodically replace machines while they are still
    >in perfect working order.

    Well that has to be weighed against all common failures
    though... To a certain extent we could always attribute
    failure to 'something', whether that be electrical surge,
    manufacturing defect, oxide buildup, epoxy deterioration,
    heat, water, physical shock, etc, or just gradual
    evaporation of capacitor electrolyte. Often I do see boards
    that have failed for no obvious reason, and for cost and
    time constraints it is more feasable to replace rather than
    diagnose.

    >
    >> Additionally I don't expect today's systems to last nearly
    >> as long as (say an old 486 did).
    >
    >Why not?

    Power requirements elevated relative to the actual capacity
    of the average power supply, higher current swings, and with
    the relatively similar PCB real-estate, a limitation in
    spacd and expense is reached where the margin for capacitors
    is lower. Even a gale force wind will not keep a cap as
    cool on a (for example, Prescott 3.6GHz) VRM circuit as on
    the typical (Celeron 600) board. All capacitor
    manufacturers are in agreement that higher cap temp will
    directly effect their viable lifespan. In some situations I
    feel it would be preferrible to have socketed caps else at
    least a higher-tiered board for "PC" rather than server
    which has more optimal cap such as organic compositions.


    >
    >> But per your example, it'd be 7 x $10.
    >
    >That's $70, compared to over $850 for the entire system.

    True, I agree that extra expense is worthwhile, but since I
    do buy fans in bulk I can't begin to rationalize it for
    someone else. Pure performance is too often emphasized
    rather than lifespan, such that a customer seeing two
    systems with *same* price-point may easily choose one that
    is quieter, faster CPU, and hotter running, rather than one
    which is cooler but slower CPU. With every $70 there is
    some kind of tradeoff to be made in a modular PC.


    >
    >> It is pretty rare for a good
    >> sleeve-bearing fan to fail within the first few years (like
    >> Panaflo) unless driven at very high RPM.
    >
    >After being burned by sleeve bearings (so to speak), I now use only
    >ball-bearing fans.

    Were they good makes though? I would never put
    median-to-low quality sleeve bearings in a system and remove
    (replace) such fans from cases with them already installed,
    but find Panaflo and Papst in particular to be very good
    quality and lifespans exceeding 10 years in most cases,
    perhaps far longer if a lubrication interval is maintained
    after the first 5-8 years. It would be a personal
    preference, a drop of oil every 3 years or so seems like a
    fair trade for great reduction in higher frequency bearing
    noise, moreso in often-used, "PC" systems rather than remote
    systems outside of audible range.

    Junk sleeve-bearing fans are a real liability. Placing one
    on a power supply exhaust, video card or CPU heatsink is
    quite often the primary reason I see old systems replaced.
    Not that there aren't other reasons some will replace an old
    system, but in practice I see people who would've kept using
    a system had it not been for such a fan failure, then faced
    with a (power supply loss or maybe just a suddenly loud CPU
    fan), they self-rationalize that they'd rather spend another
    $700 for a modern system to do web-surfing, email, and
    office tasks. I don't argue with them, as I'm quite happy
    to receive any OEM systems that only need minor fixes and
    include a valid Windows license.

    >
    >> While that's a nice theory, in practice the dust builds up
    >> everywhere.
    >
    >It's what I've observed from experience, not theory. The air has to
    >move slowly for the dust to settle out, so the places where there is a
    >slowing of the air or similar turbulence are where the dust collects.

    True, it will collect more where there is slowing, BUT the
    origin of the dust, it's entry into the system is increased
    by this higher flow rate. Even though dust settles in the
    lower flow areas, it also settles elsewhere.

    >
    >> Evidence includes dust buildup on the fan
    >> blades themselves, certainly not an area of slowing air
    >> flow.
    >
    >But it is an area of slowing air flow, along trailing edges that
    >generate vortices.


    Relatively speaking it's quite higher air flow than anywhere
    else in the system except another area of the fan blade.
    Further it is not only trailing edges that collect dust, the
    entire blade does.

    >
    >> Overall a higher flow through the chassis will always
    >> result in more dust accumulation.
    >
    >Whence the interest of using filters. Now if only I could find good
    >filters.

    I'm slowly beginning to abandon the idea of a single-density
    medium in favor of a double or triple layer filter. The
    primary problem is implementation in a typical case. While
    it's not so bad to do a couple cases for personal use
    (particularly when forethought allows setting up a new
    system thoroughly prior to migration from an older one), the
    issue of having a larger filter area than fan intake area
    makes it difficult to implement without significant case
    front modifications- something many people seem to shy away
    from when they've just received a new case. I sometimes
    argue that it's easier to do modification work prior to
    building into a case rather than later, but maybe it's the
    excitement of a new build, maybe the perceived value of a
    "new" case, for whatever the reason most often people seem
    to be building a system and THEN thinking about cooling
    rather than the other way around.


    >
    >> Only time will tell? They seem to imply they're more
    >> reliable, but when would a manufacturer not claim this about
    >> product changes?
    >
    >I'll wait and see, then. I know ball bearings last a long time. I'll
    >let someone else be the pioneer with new types of bearings.

    It doesn't necessarily matter, begin a trial use with only a
    few of them, continuing to make regular backups of data as
    always, then if they're viable for the purpose you'll have
    demonstrated it without significant disruption.
  32. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    I forgot to add i was running a 5cm x1cm 1000rpm fan instead of the 12cm
    Zalman fan.

    Also CpuIdle was running. http://www.cpuidle.de

    The purpose of the test was how long before failure and with the stock hs
    was only 35 minutes and 2 hours 35 minutes with the Zalman hs, before the
    agp bus overheated and i lost video.

    And i found out how inaccurate the onboard sensors were.
    --
    Andrew Mcintosh
    ASI Industries = Alpha Soft International Industries. (1990 - 1995)
    ASI Industries = As i in does tries! (1996 - current date)
  33. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Hi Kony,
    >>The board is not in a case, just sitting on a worktop,
    > Is this how it was all along? Perhaps that 's it, your CPU
    > heatsink is simply recirculating same pre-heated air around
    > the northbridge
    No, 4 days ago it was in a case, maybe.

    > Hmm, I didn't remember there being a way to disable the heat
    > sensors. Perhaps you mean the thermal shutoff for the CPU?
    Yes you are right, sorry got mixed-up with my Abit NF7-S V2 it does, but it
    did shutoff and cpu hs was warm (30-40%C), NB hs was so hot i burnt my
    finger, 65%C on my dmm.

    > Are you running the PCProbe software? Maybe that is the
    > reason for the shutdown
    No i have found PCProbe to be inaccurate, Everest (Aida32) is better.

    > It has now dawned on me that your board didn't have the tall
    > silver Asus heatsink but rather the shorther dark-colored
    > one? Mine has the silver one and has done fine with it...
    > but it doesn't explain why you're not seeing good results
    > with the Zalman.
    Yes the little black one about 10g, the Zalman NB hs is Aluminum
    and its quite poor with heat transfer.

    > >Can you provide any urls for the specifications of the Via Kt600
    > >northbridge chipset?
    > No I don't see one available to the public on Via's website,
    > but there aren't any that have lower than 80-85C, usually
    > higher, that I recall.
    Same here, but i did see the specifications of the Via KT133A and
    KT400 northbridge chipset and they were only about 10%C above
    room / case temperature and with a hs / hsf it reduced the temps by
    at least 50%.

    Oh i was running Win98se at the time of the 65%C shutdown.

    Anyway i have new data you will find it under `Mxsmanic' post.
    --
    Andrew Mcintosh
    ASI Industries = Alpha Soft International Industries. (1990 - 1995)
    ASI Industries = As i in does tries! (1996 - current date)
  34. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    kony writes:

    > Were they good makes though?

    The sleeve or the ball bearings? I don't know enough about makes to
    know which is best, and often I'm constrained to what I can easily
    obtain, anyway (rather than the best of the best, which may simply not
    be available).

    > True, it will collect more where there is slowing, BUT the
    > origin of the dust, it's entry into the system is increased
    > by this higher flow rate.

    That's where filters come in.

    Now, if you can recommend a filter (commercial or home-made) that will
    effectively screen out housedust without too greatly impairing airflow
    when placed in front of the fan, I'd be very interested. My current
    fans have washable coarse plastic filters, but I think dust is getting
    past those. I'd also prefer disposable filters to washable filters.

    > I'm slowly beginning to abandon the idea of a single-density
    > medium in favor of a double or triple layer filter. The
    > primary problem is implementation in a typical case. While
    > it's not so bad to do a couple cases for personal use
    > (particularly when forethought allows setting up a new
    > system thoroughly prior to migration from an older one), the
    > issue of having a larger filter area than fan intake area
    > makes it difficult to implement without significant case
    > front modifications- something many people seem to shy away
    > from when they've just received a new case. I sometimes
    > argue that it's easier to do modification work prior to
    > building into a case rather than later, but maybe it's the
    > excitement of a new build, maybe the perceived value of a
    > "new" case, for whatever the reason most often people seem
    > to be building a system and THEN thinking about cooling
    > rather than the other way around.

    So what filters do you use? I should think a very thin, fine, diposable
    filter would work pretty well. It should be possible to keep airflow
    relatively high and filtering efficiency also very high if the filters
    are designed correctly and replaced frequently.

    > It doesn't necessarily matter, begin a trial use with only a
    > few of them, continuing to make regular backups of data as
    > always, then if they're viable for the purpose you'll have
    > demonstrated it without significant disruption.

    But is there a reason to buy sleeve bearings other than ball bearings?
    I don't care if they are cheaper. And noise doesn't bother me. I just
    want airflow and reliability.

    --
    Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
  35. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 18:30:01 +0100, Mxsmanic
    <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >kony writes:
    >
    >> Were they good makes though?
    >
    >The sleeve or the ball bearings? I don't know enough about makes to
    >know which is best, and often I'm constrained to what I can easily
    >obtain, anyway (rather than the best of the best, which may simply not
    >be available).
    >
    >> True, it will collect more where there is slowing, BUT the
    >> origin of the dust, it's entry into the system is increased
    >> by this higher flow rate.
    >
    >That's where filters come in.
    >
    >Now, if you can recommend a filter (commercial or home-made) that will
    >effectively screen out housedust without too greatly impairing airflow
    >when placed in front of the fan, I'd be very interested. My current
    >fans have washable coarse plastic filters, but I think dust is getting
    >past those. I'd also prefer disposable filters to washable filters.

    Therein lies the problem, even with a filter that's not very
    effective at filtering out smaller particules, the flow rate
    will still be drastically cut. I don't think there's any
    way around that except to have the largest filter surface
    area possible. The way I did it last time was to mount the
    fans flush with the case wall and put a large filter panel
    about 20mm away from the fan intake, that filter panel
    suspected with a thick sealed-foam tape surround such that
    it kept it sealed.

    The filter material I used was cheap enough to be considered
    disposable but was washable, a panel meant for air
    conditioners that was cut down to smaller pieces. Next time
    I'll probably use accordian-folded paper fiber filters such
    as 3M filtrete,
    http://www.3m.com/us/home_leisure/filtrete/411_ultra.jhtml ,
    or more likely a generic somewhat-lower performance type
    (but overall same construction) as it will be desirable to
    have a little better airflow at the expense of not capturing
    the smallest particles, not to mention a lower price. I
    noted a local hardware store had some off-brand for less
    than 1/4 the price and it still looked far better than any
    other type of filtering medium. While that might work for a
    bezel-internal filter, the pleating wouldn't be so welcome
    over any other (like side-panel) fans.


    >
    >> I'm slowly beginning to abandon the idea of a single-density
    >> medium in favor of a double or triple layer filter. The
    >> primary problem is implementation in a typical case. While
    >> it's not so bad to do a couple cases for personal use
    >> (particularly when forethought allows setting up a new
    >> system thoroughly prior to migration from an older one), the
    >> issue of having a larger filter area than fan intake area
    >> makes it difficult to implement without significant case
    >> front modifications- something many people seem to shy away
    >> from when they've just received a new case. I sometimes
    >> argue that it's easier to do modification work prior to
    >> building into a case rather than later, but maybe it's the
    >> excitement of a new build, maybe the perceived value of a
    >> "new" case, for whatever the reason most often people seem
    >> to be building a system and THEN thinking about cooling
    >> rather than the other way around.
    >
    >So what filters do you use? I should think a very thin, fine, diposable
    >filter would work pretty well. It should be possible to keep airflow
    >relatively high and filtering efficiency also very high if the filters
    >are designed correctly and replaced frequently.

    Depends on what you consider "relatively high" to mean.
    Generally if they're worth installing at all the resultant
    flow is 40% or lower than previously, and even worse with
    thin fans, I try to use 38mm thick when possible... which
    often isn't possible if the case doesn't have a particularly
    spacious bezel or recessed drive bays. I'm fairly handy
    with sheet-metal and could fab a different bay or move
    existing bays but beyond a certain point it's a lot of work
    compared to the benefit of leser filtration, which still may
    take quite a while to build up. Plus I still try to keep
    noise levels as low as possible, would prefer a quiet
    slightly dusty system over an audible, spotless one.

    >
    >> It doesn't necessarily matter, begin a trial use with only a
    >> few of them, continuing to make regular backups of data as
    >> always, then if they're viable for the purpose you'll have
    >> demonstrated it without significant disruption.
    >
    >But is there a reason to buy sleeve bearings other than ball bearings?
    >I don't care if they are cheaper. And noise doesn't bother me. I just
    >want airflow and reliability.

    Sleeve bearings are quieter, and what noise they do make is
    that of turbulence, little to no bearing noise. Most
    people, myself included, fine the bearing whine more
    distracting than lower pitched turbulent sounds.

    They aren't cheaper, not the decent ones anyway. The Papst
    are among the most expensive one can find, ignoring spot
    pricing of the rare fans at electronics warehouses which
    often tend to charge more. A good sleeve-bearing fan in a
    moderate temp environment (preferribly not on the power
    supply exhaust) and vertical mounting orientation can last
    quite long. I have some well over 10 years old that are
    still quieter than the average new ball-bearing fan.

    If you absolutely dont' care about the noise there is no
    reason to buy sleeve-bearing fans, except for some unusual
    environement with a lot of shock-stress, as the ball-bearing
    fans are not so good for shock resistance. Some of the
    larger fan manufacturers might provide more data on this, as
    offhand I don't recall the g-force tolernace of common
    ball-bearing types... it's not ever an issue in a computer
    for sure, even a laptop couldn't be treated that badly and
    be expected to work beyond which fan was installed.
  36. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.msi-microstar,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    13C is 55.4F.
    Either he keeps his room very cold, or has a refrigerator for a cooler.
    If neither of those two, the reading is out to lunch.

    "Larc" <larc-news@jupiterlink.net> wrote in message
    news:8v5qv0lg1si2av1pi83gfhlngkoktef1it@4ax.com...
    > On 30 Jan 2005 11:56:49 GMT, "Jack" <jack@hello.com> wrote:
    >
    > | "Parish" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    > | news:363vnmF4qh5v8U1@individual.net...
    > | > Jack wrote:
    > | >> "Parish" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
    > | >> news:363uqiF4pv6flU1@individual.net...
    > | >>>
    > | >>> Have you checked the release notes for the BIOS and CoreCenter
    > updates
    > | >>> that you installed? It could be that the old versions were
    > misreporting
    > | >>> the temps.
    > | >>
    > | >> I just did and one of the fixes was a misreported CPU temperature.
    > :)
    > | >
    > | > Well AMD must have done some good design work with the 64 then if it
    > only
    > | > hots 27C after 5 mins of MP3 encoding. Athlon XPs were very hot
    > chips - my
    > | > dual MP2800s idle at 45-50 depending on room temp, although they
    > don't get
    > | > much hotter when worked hard, thankfully :-)
    > |
    > | Hence the reason for my concern. I previously had an Athlon XP 2000 and
    > it
    > | ran anywhere between 40C and 60C - therefore my new chip running at 13C
    > is
    > | worryingly low for me... I find it hard to believe it's correct. :)
    >
    > It's not correct unless your system is in a very cold room! 13C
    > (55.4F) probably wouldn't even occur in an operating computer in an
    > igloo!
    >
    > Larc
    >
    >
    >
    > §§§ - Change planet to earth to reply by email - §§§
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