Raid array

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

Is there any problems to running a raid using external
hard drives? can win xp pro run a raid or would i have to
get 3rd party software?
19 answers Last reply
More about raid array
  1. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    If you have an external raid array it is probably SCSI and you should use a
    bus mastering SCSI controller that supports RAID. If it's not SCSI you
    should rethink using RAID.

    Kerry Brown
    KDB Systems

    "Joe" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:238f01c51f6b$8bd4fbc0$a501280a@phx.gbl...
    > Is there any problems to running a raid using external
    > hard drives? can win xp pro run a raid or would i have to
    > get 3rd party software?
  2. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    Hello

    Do some research on Raid before going down that road, that
    would better help you, research it

    Al

    Joe wrote:

    > Is there any problems to running a raid using external
    > hard drives? can win xp pro run a raid or would i have to
    > get 3rd party software?
  3. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    To run Raid 1, it is best to have dual processors,
    it does slow down your computer.
    You need SCSI or SATA card with Raid capability.
    I believe the new Intel motherboards can
    be configured to run SATA Raid.

    Raid 1 is good for companies that have very important
    data that have to be mirrored every minute. If one drive
    fails, then you can boot from the other. (accounting small
    firm is good example)
    Otherwise using drive backup (mirroring) software that backup once
    a day, is cheaper and better way to go.

    There is Raid, 1, 2, 3 etc. each is different, anything above
    Raid 1 is for enterprise and large servers use.

    "Joe" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:238f01c51f6b$8bd4fbc0$a501280a@phx.gbl...
    > Is there any problems to running a raid using external
    > hard drives? can win xp pro run a raid or would i have to
    > get 3rd party software?
  4. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    <Otherwise using drive backup (mirroring) software that
    backup once a day, is cheaper and better way to go..>

    Any recomendations (products)on this set up?
  5. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    I use Casper XP
    http://www.fssdev.com
    Be sure to set the secondary drive partition to Active
    (Bootable).
    After the first backup, remove primary drive, set
    slave to primary, see if it boots up OK.
    I use a task scheduler to run Casper once a day.
    C:\Program Files\Future Systems Solutions\Casper XP\CasperXP.EXE /COPY C: D:
    /Y


    <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:407b01c5201d$b43c2c70$a401280a@phx.gbl...
    > <Otherwise using drive backup (mirroring) software that
    > backup once a day, is cheaper and better way to go..>
    >
    > Any recomendations (products)on this set up?
  6. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:30:12 -0800, Ted wrote:
    >
    > To run Raid 1, it is best to have dual processors,
    > it does slow down your computer.
    > You need SCSI or SATA card with Raid capability.
    > I believe the new Intel motherboards can
    > be configured to run SATA Raid.

    There are inexpensive add-in SATA and IDE solutions from Promise. I use
    the Promise SX6000 with 6 x 250GB IDE drives on many small servers.

    RAID 1 works fine with those small controller cards with a SINGLE CPU,
    even using software RAID 1 it does not consume much in the way of cpu
    cycles - look at perfmon some time if you don't believe me.

    I would only run RAID (any type) on external drives if it was SCSI based,
    in a single chassis and the entire thing was on a quality UPS.

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  7. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    > RAID 1 works fine with those small controller cards with a SINGLE CPU,
    > even using software RAID 1 it does not consume much in the way of cpu
    > cycles - look at perfmon some time if you don't believe me.

    It does have spikes of high memory usage when data
    is changed.
    Hard to catch, but you can notice it in a busy server
    in a small network.
    3.0 CPU with 1 GB memory and two SCSI 7200 RPM hard drives.


    "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
    news:pan.2005.03.03.22.39.18.715577@nowhere.lan...
    > On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:30:12 -0800, Ted wrote:
    >>
    >> To run Raid 1, it is best to have dual processors,
    >> it does slow down your computer.
    >> You need SCSI or SATA card with Raid capability.
    >> I believe the new Intel motherboards can
    >> be configured to run SATA Raid.
    >
    > There are inexpensive add-in SATA and IDE solutions from Promise. I use
    > the Promise SX6000 with 6 x 250GB IDE drives on many small servers.
    >
    > RAID 1 works fine with those small controller cards with a SINGLE CPU,
    > even using software RAID 1 it does not consume much in the way of cpu
    > cycles - look at perfmon some time if you don't believe me.
    >
    > I would only run RAID (any type) on external drives if it was SCSI based,
    > in a single chassis and the entire thing was on a quality UPS.
    >
    > --
    > spam999free@rrohio.com
    > remove 999 in order to email me
    >
  8. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:20:39 -0800, anonymous wrote:

    > <Otherwise using drive backup (mirroring) software that
    > backup once a day, is cheaper and better way to go..>
    >
    > Any recomendations (products)on this set up?

    RAID does not change the need for backups - RAID 1/5 is for drive fault
    tolerance and performance. Backups are for saving data, never confuse the
    two.

    --
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    remove 999 in order to email me
  9. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 15:58:42 -0800, Ted wrote:

    >> RAID 1 works fine with those small controller cards with a SINGLE CPU,
    >> even using software RAID 1 it does not consume much in the way of cpu
    >> cycles - look at perfmon some time if you don't believe me.
    >
    > It does have spikes of high memory usage when data
    > is changed.
    > Hard to catch, but you can notice it in a busy server
    > in a small network.
    > 3.0 CPU with 1 GB memory and two SCSI 7200 RPM hard drives.

    I run RAID-1 for all OS partitions on all servers. With SCSI, SATA, IDE,
    controller or soft RAID-1, I don't see more than a few K and I can't
    attribute that to the mirror.

    Single CPU, Xeon, 2GB, RAID-1 c=20GB, D=230GB, 75 users

    What do you consider HIGH memory?

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  10. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    >Single CPU, Xeon

    Xeon are made for server boards.
    All Intel Xeon compatible server boards have dual processors.
    Plus its much faster than a non-server CPU.


    "Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
    news:pan.2005.03.04.00.13.29.451907@nowhere.lan...
    > On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 15:58:42 -0800, Ted wrote:
    >
    >>> RAID 1 works fine with those small controller cards with a SINGLE CPU,
    >>> even using software RAID 1 it does not consume much in the way of cpu
    >>> cycles - look at perfmon some time if you don't believe me.
    >>
    >> It does have spikes of high memory usage when data
    >> is changed.
    >> Hard to catch, but you can notice it in a busy server
    >> in a small network.
    >> 3.0 CPU with 1 GB memory and two SCSI 7200 RPM hard drives.
    >
    > I run RAID-1 for all OS partitions on all servers. With SCSI, SATA, IDE,
    > controller or soft RAID-1, I don't see more than a few K and I can't
    > attribute that to the mirror.
    >
    > Single CPU, Xeon, 2GB, RAID-1 c=20GB, D=230GB, 75 users
    >
    > What do you consider HIGH memory?
    >
    > --
    > spam999free@rrohio.com
    > remove 999 in order to email me
    >
  11. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 19:42:15 -0800, Ted wrote:
    >
    > Xeon are made for server boards.
    > All Intel Xeon compatible server boards have dual processors.
    > Plus its much faster than a non-server CPU.

    Um, the Xeon boards are NOT all Dual CPU boards. There are other vendors
    than Intel that make single and Dual Xeon boards.

    I'll still stick with my RAID-1 not loading memory or the CPU to any
    significant amount based on workstation and server setups we done with
    controller or soft based RAID.

    --
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    remove 999 in order to email me
  12. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    Would like to get your thoughts on this product...

    http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=704941

    I would be running this on a PC, not a server. I am
    looking for backup with some parity. I have files that I
    can't loose, but don't have the time to burn them onto
    DVDs all the time.
  13. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    >RAID does not change the need for backups - RAID 1/5 is
    for drive fault
    >tolerance and performance. Backups are for saving data,
    never confuse the
    >two.


    I am not planning on working off of the raid drives. I
    will still be working off my internal hard drives, but I
    would be using the raid drives as a back up to my working
    drives. the raid is in case one of those drives fail. it
    is not a permanent solution i am looking for, just
    something to get me through the next 12 months or so.
  14. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    > Would like to get your thoughts on this product...
    >
    > http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=704941
    >
    > I would be running this on a PC, not a server. I am
    > looking for backup with some parity. I have files that I
    > can't loose, but don't have the time to burn them onto
    > DVDs all the time.

    Joe

    This looks like a reasonable product. From you previous posts it sounds like
    you want something that will mirror your internal drive. You could set this
    up via a software mirror between your internal drive and a volume on the
    external RAID. You may find too much of a performance penalty because the
    external drive enclosure uses Firewire or USB 2.0. You may have to use a
    disk cloning package like Norton Ghost and image your drive at the end of
    the day, or schedule it for a time when you are not using the PC. A better
    solution would be a internal SCSI drive mirrored to an external SCSI drive.
    I've never actually tried setting up a software mirror to a external
    Firewire or USB drive so I would be interested to hear how it works if you
    try it. As mentioned in other posts RAID gives you fault tolerance but is
    not a backup solution. What happens in the event of a fire, flood, theft,
    file system corruption from a virus, or just accidentally deleting the wrong
    files?

    Kerry Brown
    KDB Systems
  15. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    >This looks like a reasonable product. From you previous
    posts it sounds like
    >you want something that will mirror your internal drive.
    You could set this
    >up via a software mirror between your internal drive and
    a volume on the
    >external RAID. You may find too much of a performance
    penalty because the
    >external drive enclosure uses Firewire or USB 2.0. You
    may have to use a
    >disk cloning package like Norton Ghost and image your
    drive at the end of
    >the day, or schedule it for a time when you are not
    using the PC. A better
    >solution would be a internal SCSI drive mirrored to an
    external SCSI drive.
    >I've never actually tried setting up a software mirror
    to a external
    >Firewire or USB drive so I would be interested to hear
    how it works if you
    >try it. As mentioned in other posts RAID gives you fault
    tolerance but is
    >not a backup solution. What happens in the event of a
    fire, flood, theft,
    >file system corruption from a virus, or just
    accidentally deleting the wrong
    >files?
    >
    >Kerry Brown
    >KDB Systems
    >
    >
    You are close. The drives would be used to back up files.
    I have 3 internal hard drives. 1 for OS and applications,
    2 for data storage (mostly video/images/DVD authoring). I
    need a way to back up the files to another drive in case
    my internal drives go down. I work within a hospital but
    don't have enough network drive space to back them up.
    The hospital wants 7,000 dollars for 500gb of additional
    server space from our department. I think that is a too
    much money considering I can buy 2TB for half that. I was
    going to just buy a 1TB external hard drive to archive
    the files to, but thought this would be a more secure
    solution. I am not going to work off of the drives. I am
    just going to copy files to them. I thought that if one
    of these drives should break I can get another one and
    have the others rebuild it (the reason for the Raid). I
    usually sit down once a year and back up everything to
    DVDs but it takes a lot of disks and DVD burning is still
    pretty slow. I am not really concerned about the speed of
    the drives. They do however make a SCSI version for about
    400 dollars more, which I could get.
  16. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    > You are close. The drives would be used to back up files.
    > I have 3 internal hard drives. 1 for OS and applications,
    > 2 for data storage (mostly video/images/DVD authoring). I
    > need a way to back up the files to another drive in case
    > my internal drives go down. I work within a hospital but
    > don't have enough network drive space to back them up.
    > The hospital wants 7,000 dollars for 500gb of additional
    > server space from our department. I think that is a too
    > much money considering I can buy 2TB for half that. I was
    > going to just buy a 1TB external hard drive to archive
    > the files to, but thought this would be a more secure
    > solution. I am not going to work off of the drives. I am
    > just going to copy files to them. I thought that if one
    > of these drives should break I can get another one and
    > have the others rebuild it (the reason for the Raid). I
    > usually sit down once a year and back up everything to
    > DVDs but it takes a lot of disks and DVD burning is still
    > pretty slow. I am not really concerned about the speed of
    > the drives. They do however make a SCSI version for about
    > 400 dollars more, which I could get.

    Depending on your system software mirroring to USB/Firewire may cause your
    whole system to slow down during drive access. Normally mirroring causes
    slightly slower writes and faster reads. Using Firewire/USB I think reads
    and writes would both be slower because of the overhead of USB/Firewire. For
    backup or imaging you would have to give up the time to create the image and
    your second set of data will only be as current as the image but there will
    be no slowdown for normal read/write operations. Technology is evolving so
    fast there it's hard to keep up and know what works in the real world. I'm
    going on theory alone. Let us know what you try and how it works.

    Kerry Brown
    KDB Systems
  17. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    One method of backup is not enough.
    1) You need a software that backup your important data
    to multiple devices at different intervals.
    http://www.backtec.com/minman.htm
    Is a good one.
    2) Back to DVD and take it home daily in case of theft
    or fire.
    3) Backing up your hard drive is a good extra power to you.

    MinuteMan Data Backup is very useful to backup your important data,
    such as your Favorites, Email, Notes, customer information,
    your personal documents, pictures, etc.
    It would have been a catastrophe for me without it, because
    somewhere along the line a drive would take a dive, data gets lost,
    or get infected with a virus.
    I do rotary backups of the same backups to network computer,
    local drive, CD-R/DVD-R, and external USB drives.
    Using a drive image software for if my drive froze is great
    but can't rely on it 100%. Actually it could fail you on the day
    you need it. Because it has failed making a mirror, because
    you are having problems with the current drive.

    An addition of Raid 1 (requires two hard drives) is more power
    to you, for if the master drive took a dive, then you can boot from
    the second drive instantly.
    But remember to separate your important data from your operating
    system and what software is installed in it, because all that can be
    re-installed.

    If you do mirror to an external drive:
    Use a USB drive kit with a drive of your choice that has
    been partitioned and set as bootable.
    Mirror to it, take it out of the drive kit enclosure, install it
    in the computer, and see if it boots up.
    Not all mirroring software can guarantee to make an external
    drive bootable.


    "Joe" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:468101c520d3$ff1483d0$a401280a@phx.gbl...
    >
    >>This looks like a reasonable product. From you previous
    > posts it sounds like
    >>you want something that will mirror your internal drive.
    > You could set this
    >>up via a software mirror between your internal drive and
    > a volume on the
    >>external RAID. You may find too much of a performance
    > penalty because the
    >>external drive enclosure uses Firewire or USB 2.0. You
    > may have to use a
    >>disk cloning package like Norton Ghost and image your
    > drive at the end of
    >>the day, or schedule it for a time when you are not
    > using the PC. A better
    >>solution would be a internal SCSI drive mirrored to an
    > external SCSI drive.
    >>I've never actually tried setting up a software mirror
    > to a external
    >>Firewire or USB drive so I would be interested to hear
    > how it works if you
    >>try it. As mentioned in other posts RAID gives you fault
    > tolerance but is
    >>not a backup solution. What happens in the event of a
    > fire, flood, theft,
    >>file system corruption from a virus, or just
    > accidentally deleting the wrong
    >>files?
    >>
    >>Kerry Brown
    >>KDB Systems
    >>
    >>
    > You are close. The drives would be used to back up files.
    > I have 3 internal hard drives. 1 for OS and applications,
    > 2 for data storage (mostly video/images/DVD authoring). I
    > need a way to back up the files to another drive in case
    > my internal drives go down. I work within a hospital but
    > don't have enough network drive space to back them up.
    > The hospital wants 7,000 dollars for 500gb of additional
    > server space from our department. I think that is a too
    > much money considering I can buy 2TB for half that. I was
    > going to just buy a 1TB external hard drive to archive
    > the files to, but thought this would be a more secure
    > solution. I am not going to work off of the drives. I am
    > just going to copy files to them. I thought that if one
    > of these drives should break I can get another one and
    > have the others rebuild it (the reason for the Raid). I
    > usually sit down once a year and back up everything to
    > DVDs but it takes a lot of disks and DVD burning is still
    > pretty slow. I am not really concerned about the speed of
    > the drives. They do however make a SCSI version for about
    > 400 dollars more, which I could get.
  18. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 03:20:44 -0800, Joe wrote:

    >
    > Would like to get your thoughts on this product...
    >
    > http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=704941
    >
    > I would be running this on a PC, not a server. I am
    > looking for backup with some parity. I have files that I
    > can't loose, but don't have the time to burn them onto
    > DVDs all the time.

    Since it's FireWire I personally would never install it on any computer
    for a client.

    If you just want a large RAID array, why does it have to be external. You
    can easily purchase a nice server type case - Chenbro - with room for 12
    drives and dual 550W PSU's and then run whatever motherboard you want.

    This is an IDE based ATA100 RAID controller that has it's own CPU and
    Memory - it handles 6 x IDE drives and screams. I've built a lot of 1.3TB
    servers around this card.
    http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=349864

    If you really want to get the Firewire unit, get the same unit in SCSI and
    then get a good Adaptec SCSI card.

    One thing to mention - RAID IS NOT A BACKUP METHOD, it's a fault tolerance
    method. If you just want a backup method, get a tape drive and tapes.


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  19. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware (More info?)

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 04:14:08 -0800, Joe wrote:
    >
    >>RAID does not change the need for backups - RAID 1/5 is
    >>for drive fault tolerance and performance. Backups are for saving
    >>data, never confuse the two.
    >
    >
    > I am not planning on working off of the raid drives. I will still be
    > working off my internal hard drives, but I would be using the raid
    > drives as a back up to my working drives. the raid is in case one of
    > those drives fail. it is not a permanent solution i am looking for, just
    > something to get me through the next 12 months or so.

    Buy a good quality tape drive.

    --
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    remove 999 in order to email me
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