Shuttle Noise Levels?

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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

When people talk about noise levels between shuttles, how do they perform
in the noise stakes relative to a "normal" desktop?

For example I'm looking at different shuttles to replace a lian-li PC-60
base unit housing a 350w PSU (q-tech "Low Noise") and a retail P4 2.4ghz -
the intel HSF on this seems very loud.

Noise is a concern, so I was looking at the Zen which seems silent, then
someone suggested as I don't need 800fsb to look at something like a SB51G
which is around £70 cheaper - now I assume this is noiser than the Zen, but
I'm trying to get some idea of the definition of noisy compared to a
regular desktop like I currently have?

The thing's on a desk about 2 feet from where I work.

cheers,
Paul
--
paul <at> spamcop.net

 

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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

Paul Hutchings wrote:
>
> When people talk about noise levels between shuttles, how do they perform
> in the noise stakes relative to a "normal" desktop?
>
> For example I'm looking at different shuttles to replace a lian-li PC-60
> base unit housing a 350w PSU (q-tech "Low Noise") and a retail P4 2.4ghz -
> the intel HSF on this seems very loud.
>
> Noise is a concern, so I was looking at the Zen which seems silent, then
> someone suggested as I don't need 800fsb to look at something like a SB51G
> which is around £70 cheaper - now I assume this is noiser than the Zen, but
> I'm trying to get some idea of the definition of noisy compared to a
> regular desktop like I currently have?
>
> The thing's on a desk about 2 feet from where I work.

I can't really answer any of this, but am also in the process of deciding
on components for a new PC for replacing/assisting my ultra quiet 233MMX.
Noise prevention is on the top of my list: I've just fitted a 300W
Q-Technology PSU, and I'm definitely getting another one for the new kit.
If everything can be kept in line with this PSU, then this will be my
yardstick for acceptable noise.

The old SuperMicro motherboard has an inbuild mechanism for controlling
CPU fan, the on/off temperature is set in BIOS, I have set the trigger
points to 43C and 48C. This works really well, I wonder if this is
included in modern motherboards since I never see any discussion of this?

The new computer will be used for software development rather than gaming,
so the requirements are not great, perhaps 2.4-2.8GHz will do, possibly
underclocking it if it helps on noise. I would like 512Mb or possibly 1G
memory. I will avoid motherboard and graphics cards with fans on them.

 

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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

In article <40B07CA0.B4D12A42@sizefitter_spam_gets_fried.com>, Johannes H Andersen wrote:
>
>
> Paul Hutchings wrote:
>>
>> When people talk about noise levels between shuttles, how do they perform
>> in the noise stakes relative to a "normal" desktop?
>>
>> For example I'm looking at different shuttles to replace a lian-li PC-60
>> base unit housing a 350w PSU (q-tech "Low Noise") and a retail P4 2.4ghz -
>> the intel HSF on this seems very loud.
>>
>> Noise is a concern, so I was looking at the Zen which seems silent, then
>> someone suggested as I don't need 800fsb to look at something like a SB51G
>> which is around £70 cheaper - now I assume this is noiser than the Zen, but
>> I'm trying to get some idea of the definition of noisy compared to a
>> regular desktop like I currently have?
>>
>> The thing's on a desk about 2 feet from where I work.
>
> I can't really answer any of this

.... stuff deleted ...

Well, I can (for my shuttle - an FV25/Spacewalker.)
The noise is unacceptable.

I originally bought the unit with a view to keeping it in the
living areas of the house. That changed the first time I switched
it on. Now, I have no reason to think there's anything wrong with
the unit - it's just plain noisy.

The reason, so far as I can make out, is that the small fans used
('cos large fans won't fit in the case) are inherently noisier
than large ones _when required to move the same volume of air_.

My solution was to build a no-moving-parts machine, that just boots
of a compact flash and pulls everything except the basics off the
network (BTW, this is a linux box). Great for use in the house
and possibly more reliable as there's nothing to break/stall/seize.
The performance is limited tho - as the heat removal is passive
but that's a compromise I'm willing to make.

The FV25 now works as my astronomy server, hooked up to a telescope
and noise isn't an issue.

Pete

--
...........................................................................
.. never trust a man who, when left alone ...... Pete Lynch .
.. in a room with a tea cosy ...... Marlow, England .
.. doesn't try it on (Billy Connolly) .....................................

 

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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

Paul Hutchings <paul@spamcop.net> wrote:

>When people talk about noise levels between shuttles, how do they perform
>in the noise stakes relative to a "normal" desktop?

>For example I'm looking at different shuttles to replace a lian-li PC-60
>base unit housing a 350w PSU (q-tech "Low Noise") and a retail P4 2.4ghz -
>the intel HSF on this seems very loud.

I would expect this to be a relatively noisy system; Q-Tech "Low
Noise" PSUs are anything but low noise and the fans supplied with
retail P4s aren't the quietest. Other culprits can be hard drives and
GPU/chipset/case fans so overall noise level will depend on what else
you have fitted.

>Noise is a concern, so I was looking at the Zen which seems silent, then
>someone suggested as I don't need 800fsb to look at something like a SB51G
>which is around £70 cheaper - now I assume this is noiser than the Zen, but
>I'm trying to get some idea of the definition of noisy compared to a
>regular desktop like I currently have?

There's no real way of getting a good measure of noise level other
than measuring it under laboratory conditions and even then your own
experience will differ according to the environment and background
noise in which the machine is used and, to a greater degree, your own
hearing and tolerance levels.

As a rough guide you can check out the spec sheet for all the
components. Anything above around 30dba will be noisy. Components
with a noise output in the low/mid 20s is practically "silent".


--
>iv< Paul >iv<

 

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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

Paul Hopwood <paul@hopwood.org.uk> wrote in
news:1541b0dkglq6889d1ai7jc0vlcpikrsvmp@4ax.com:

> I would expect this to be a relatively noisy system; Q-Tech "Low
> Noise" PSUs are anything but low noise and the fans supplied with
> retail P4s aren't the quietest. Other culprits can be hard drives and
> GPU/chipset/case fans so overall noise level will depend on what else
> you have fitted.

At present I have a Matrox G450 which is passive cooling, and the 3 80mm
case fans in the Lian-Li, which are very quiet.

I've found that if I jam my finger in the CPU fan and stop it, the system
is noticably quieter.

I'm now wondering whether to get a quiet PSU and a CPU cooler such as the
Zalman "ZM300B-APS" and "CNPS7000-ALCU" from Tekheads and see how much of a
difference it makes?

The more I look at Shuttles the more I find myself noticing a lot of
compromises, and whilst I'm not an upgrade freak I don't know if I'd be
happy spending £200 on something that's a (small) compromise.

For example, the plan is/was to get a decent TFT, probably an Eizo L557,
Shuttles don't have DVI connectors and it seems silly not to have DVI with
a display of that quality, also I have a wirelsss LAN and ADSL which would
all need juggling.

regards
Paul
--
paul <at> spamcop.net

 

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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

Paul Hopwood wrote:
>
> Paul Hutchings <paul@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> >When people talk about noise levels between shuttles, how do they perform
> >in the noise stakes relative to a "normal" desktop?
>
> >For example I'm looking at different shuttles to replace a lian-li PC-60
> >base unit housing a 350w PSU (q-tech "Low Noise") and a retail P4 2.4ghz -
> >the intel HSF on this seems very loud.
>
> I would expect this to be a relatively noisy system; Q-Tech "Low
> Noise" PSUs are anything but low noise and the fans supplied with
> retail P4s aren't the quietest. Other culprits can be hard drives and
> GPU/chipset/case fans so overall noise level will depend on what else
> you have fitted.

Are we talking about the same thing? The QTechnology PSU is definitely
very quit, I'm just sitting next to one.

 

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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

Johannes H Andersen <johs@sizefitter_spam_gets_fried.com> wrote in
news:40B098D0.F0CA6E@sizefitter_spam_gets_fried.com:

> Are we talking about the same thing? The QTechnology PSU is definitely
> very quit, I'm just sitting next to one.

I'm on about these - http://www.qtec.info/products/pgroup.htm?mpg=PSU

Part 13491 if i recall.

regards
Paul
--
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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

Paul Hutchings <paul@spamcop.net> wrote in
news:Xns94F26FA3C7CDpaulhutchingsspamcop@130.133.1.4:

> When people talk about noise levels between shuttles, how do they
> perform in the noise stakes relative to a "normal" desktop?
>
> For example I'm looking at different shuttles to replace a lian-li
> PC-60 base unit housing a 350w PSU (q-tech "Low Noise") and a retail
> P4 2.4ghz - the intel HSF on this seems very loud.
>
> Noise is a concern, so I was looking at the Zen which seems silent,
> then someone suggested as I don't need 800fsb to look at something
> like a SB51G which is around £70 cheaper - now I assume this is noiser
> than the Zen, but I'm trying to get some idea of the definition of
> noisy compared to a regular desktop like I currently have?
>
> The thing's on a desk about 2 feet from where I work.

I have a Zen Shuttle (ST62K) on my desk and it is very quiet. It's not
*silent* like one of those mini-itx boxes, but I needed something with a
bit of oomph (this is a P4-2.8@800FSB).

I did look at some of the other shuttles, but all the other models were
nowhere near as quiet as the Zen (and for me, completely unacceptable).

If noise is a concern, you can get some good information from
<http://www.silentpcreview.com/>. These guys are really geeky about
quiet machines They also have a review on the Zen, if you're
interested.

P.S. Bought it from <http://www.myshuttle.co.uk/> - excellent service
received, even over a bank holiday.

--
treeherder.co.uk (marcus)

Any reference to trees or their herding is purely coincidental.

 

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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

"Johannes H Andersen" <johs@sizefitter_spam_gets_fried.com> wrote in message
news:40B07CA0.B4D12A42@sizefitter_spam_gets_fried.com...
>
>
> Paul Hutchings wrote:
<snip>
> The old SuperMicro motherboard has an inbuild mechanism for controlling
> CPU fan, the on/off temperature is set in BIOS, I have set the trigger
> points to 43C and 48C. This works really well, I wonder if this is
> included in modern motherboards since I never see any discussion of this?

Most, if not all, ASUS mobo's have that. They call it Q-FAN.
Works well IME.
HTH
--
Rob

 

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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

In <c8r71n$mmr$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>,
Anton Gysen <anton@REMOVETHECAPITALLETTERSantongijsen.com> wrote:

> Ouch, a bit expensive. I don't suppose you (or anyone else) knows of any
> affordable, quiet PSUs? The problem is, the noisy ones with 2 fans help
> system cooling by extracting hot air out of the body of the case.
>
> You simply can't win, it would seem

Try a Nexus PSU from Novatech and fit a silent fan or fans to your case.
Amazingly enough eBuyer's fans (QuickFind 23880) are much quieter than
Papst, Zalman, Panaflo etc when rewired to run at 7V IME and they only
cost 71p now. I hope the lack of stock isn't permanent. Also IME exhaust
fans have a much better cooling to noise ratio than intake fans.

--
The address in the Reply-To is genuine and should not be edited.
See <http://www.realh.co.uk/contact.html> for more reliable contact addresses.

 

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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

Tony Houghton wrote:
> In <c8r71n$mmr$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> Anton Gysen <anton@REMOVETHECAPITALLETTERSantongijsen.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Ouch, a bit expensive. I don't suppose you (or anyone else) knows of any
>>affordable, quiet PSUs? The problem is, the noisy ones with 2 fans help
>>system cooling by extracting hot air out of the body of the case.
>>
>>You simply can't win, it would seem
>
>
> Try a Nexus PSU from Novatech and fit a silent fan or fans to your case.
> Amazingly enough eBuyer's fans (QuickFind 23880) are much quieter than
> Papst, Zalman, Panaflo etc when rewired to run at 7V IME and they only
> cost 71p now. I hope the lack of stock isn't permanent. Also IME exhaust
> fans have a much better cooling to noise ratio than intake fans.

Interesting, I thought those exhaust fans were more of a gimmick than an
effective cooling device. The thing is, they fit in an expansion card
slot, but what actually needs cooling? My graphics card has its own
cooling, which leaves my PCI ADSL modem, which doesn't really get hot at
all.
I haven't tried eBuyer fans, I can't order from eBuyer at the moment
(long story) but I had a 92mm Panaflo fan as a replacement for the
original Zalman fan for my Zalman "flower" heatsink (both fans now have
blades snapped off them due to my overly-probing fingers) and it was
/very/ quiet indeed. I even thought about buying some to mod my 420w
"V-Tech" (no, it doesn't talk as you type) PSU with.

 

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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

In <c8u0nl$a4u$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
Anton Gysen <anton@REMOVETHECAPITALLETTERSantongijsen.com> wrote:

> Tony Houghton wrote:
>>
>> Try a Nexus PSU from Novatech and fit a silent fan or fans to your case.
>> Amazingly enough eBuyer's fans (QuickFind 23880) are much quieter than
>> Papst, Zalman, Panaflo etc when rewired to run at 7V IME and they only
>> cost 71p now. I hope the lack of stock isn't permanent. Also IME exhaust
>> fans have a much better cooling to noise ratio than intake fans.
>
> Interesting, I thought those exhaust fans were more of a gimmick than an
> effective cooling device. The thing is, they fit in an expansion card
> slot, but what actually needs cooling? My graphics card has its own
> cooling, which leaves my PCI ADSL modem, which doesn't really get hot at
> all.

I didn't mean that sort of exhaust fan, you're probably right about them
being a gimmick. I meant an ordinary fan mounted at the back of the
case blowing air out. Nearly all cases have a fan mount there.

> I haven't tried eBuyer fans, I can't order from eBuyer at the moment
> (long story) but I had a 92mm Panaflo fan as a replacement for the
> original Zalman fan for my Zalman "flower" heatsink (both fans now have
> blades snapped off them due to my overly-probing fingers) and it was
> /very/ quiet indeed. I even thought about buying some to mod my 420w
> "V-Tech" (no, it doesn't talk as you type) PSU with.

Glad to hear the Panaflo 92mm fan's quiet, I've just ordered one because
my new case takes one that size instead of 80mm. I was very disappointed
with the 80mm Panaflos I got recently [1], and there seem to be even
fewer options for 92mm fans.

[1] They weren't the model most people get, AFAICT these are designed to
run at 24V, so they're very slow at 12V, but they still vibrate quite a
bit. I think their fluid bearing is designed for reliability rather than
quietness.

--
The address in the Reply-To is genuine and should not be edited.
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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

Tony Houghton wrote:
> In <c8u0nl$a4u$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> Anton Gysen <anton@REMOVETHECAPITALLETTERSantongijsen.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Tony Houghton wrote:
>>
>>>Try a Nexus PSU from Novatech and fit a silent fan or fans to your case.
>>>Amazingly enough eBuyer's fans (QuickFind 23880) are much quieter than
>>>Papst, Zalman, Panaflo etc when rewired to run at 7V IME and they only
>>>cost 71p now. I hope the lack of stock isn't permanent. Also IME exhaust
>>>fans have a much better cooling to noise ratio than intake fans.
>>
>>Interesting, I thought those exhaust fans were more of a gimmick than an
>>effective cooling device. The thing is, they fit in an expansion card
>>slot, but what actually needs cooling? My graphics card has its own
>>cooling, which leaves my PCI ADSL modem, which doesn't really get hot at
>>all.
>
>
> I didn't mean that sort of exhaust fan, you're probably right about them
> being a gimmick. I meant an ordinary fan mounted at the back of the
> case blowing air out. Nearly all cases have a fan mount there.

Oh, certainly! I have 2 case fans at the front of my case and 2 at the
rear. Bloody loud, but bloody cool (about 52 degrees Celcius under load
for my 2.0ghz P4 @ 2.5ghz, 1.6v, about 41 degrees idle, cheapo case)
I've also drilled out the fan guards on the case which were raping the
airflow, and replaced the rear ones with grilles (more to stop myself
from being cut by the sharp metal edges rather than the fan blades
themselves!).

>>I haven't tried eBuyer fans, I can't order from eBuyer at the moment
>>(long story) but I had a 92mm Panaflo fan as a replacement for the
>>original Zalman fan for my Zalman "flower" heatsink (both fans now have
>>blades snapped off them due to my overly-probing fingers) and it was
>>/very/ quiet indeed. I even thought about buying some to mod my 420w
>>"V-Tech" (no, it doesn't talk as you type) PSU with.
>
>
> Glad to hear the Panaflo 92mm fan's quiet, I've just ordered one because
> my new case takes one that size instead of 80mm. I was very disappointed
> with the 80mm Panaflos I got recently [1], and there seem to be even
> fewer options for 92mm fans.
>
> [1] They weren't the model most people get, AFAICT these are designed to
> run at 24V, so they're very slow at 12V, but they still vibrate quite a
> bit. I think their fluid bearing is designed for reliability rather than
> quietness.

I would have thought that the 80mm ones would be quieter than the 92mm
ones, but I'll take your word for it.

 

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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

"Anton Gysen" <anton@REMOVETHECAPITALLETTERSantongijsen.com> wrote in
message news:c8u0nl$a4u$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Tony Houghton wrote:
> > [...] Also IME exhaust fans have a much better cooling to noise ratio
> > than intake fans.
>
> Interesting, I thought those [PCI slot] exhaust fans were more of a
> gimmick than an effective cooling device.

They're not brilliant, but they did drop the temperatures by a few degrees
in my old system, below my (hot!) GeForce DDR in a case with no fan mounting
below the PSU.

As for intake vs exhaust in general, I think it's quite simple: exhaust fans
are for cooling, and intake fans are for controlling where the air comes in.
Intake fans seem to help cooling a little bit, but perhaps mostly because
they reduce "short circuit" airflow. With a filter, an intake fan can also
reduce the amount of dust that gets deposited on the innards of the PC.

Alex

 

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Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

In <c8u7fe$s6f$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>,
Anton Gysen <anton@REMOVETHECAPITALLETTERSantongijsen.com> wrote:

> Tony Houghton wrote:
>> Glad to hear the Panaflo 92mm fan's quiet, I've just ordered one because
>> my new case takes one that size instead of 80mm. I was very disappointed
>> with the 80mm Panaflos I got recently [1], and there seem to be even
>> fewer options for 92mm fans.
>
> I would have thought that the 80mm ones would be quieter than the 92mm
> ones, but I'll take your word for it.

Now I've got the 92mm one I realise the 80mm ones are quieter. Or more
accurately, the 92mm one's noisier. I suppose you could call them quiet
if you suspend them magically in mid air, but they vibrate, making loads
of noise when screwed into a case.

--
The address in the Reply-To is genuine and should not be edited.
See <http://www.realh.co.uk/contact.html> for more reliable contact addresses.