XPC SK41G at 3000+...am I being conned?

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

My son recently bought a Shuttle XPC system which was advertised as an AMD
AthlonXP 3000+, it has the Shuttle FX41 mobo in it which I believe as a max
FSB of 266. The cpu is detected as a XP1500+ and when my son took the system
back to the shop to query the cpu speed he was told that it had a XP3000+
cpu in it but the chipset couldn't detect the correct speed of it because of
the restrictions of the FSB but the chip is still working at that speed and
it will not affect it's performance. He wants the machine for editing and
rendering Digital Video to his DVD burner. Are we being "misled" on this
matter and would we be better off putting a 2600+ cpu in instead which would
be ok at this FSB.
I'm a little out of touch with system building nowadays, it's been a couple
of years since I built my last one and it seemed a lot simpler then.
I would be very grateful of any help or info on this matter as I don't want
my son to have a system that is not up to the job he wants it for.

Regards
GrandAdge

 

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

grand.adge <grand.adge@themickeyntlworld.com> wrote:
> My son recently bought a Shuttle XPC system which was advertised as an AMD
> AthlonXP 3000+, it has the Shuttle FX41 mobo in it which I believe as a max
> FSB of 266. The cpu is detected as a XP1500+ and when my son took the system
> back to the shop to query the cpu speed he was told that it had a XP3000+
> cpu in it but the chipset couldn't detect the correct speed of it because of
> the restrictions of the FSB but the chip is still working at that speed and
> it will not affect it's performance. He wants the machine for editing and
> rendering Digital Video to his DVD burner. Are we being "misled" on this
> matter and would we be better off putting a 2600+ cpu in instead which would
> be ok at this FSB.

According to the Shuttle Global support page, the maximum supported
processor is the 266fsb XP2600+. Here's the supported CPU list:

http://global.shuttle.com/Support/SupportList.asp?Item=SK41G&ver=SK41G%20(FX41)

Whomever you bought this from, if it was a reputable shop, should have
known this. Depending on the BIOS settings, you are not getting the full
performance out of your processor so what the shop told your son is more
than likely full of BS. More appropriate Shuttle systems for an XP3000+
(either the 333fsb or the 400fsb version) would be the SN41G2 or SN45G.
Personally, I would be very skeptical about the credibility of the shop
from which your son bought the system. Ask them which 3000+ it is for
example (333fsb or 400fsb). If they can't answer, return the system and
shop elsewhere. Or download CPUID or CPUInfo from amd.com and confirm what
sort of processor is in the box and at what speed it is running.

Personally, I would return the system and shop elsewhere. Shuttle is now
offering complete systems from their USA website for example (not sure
about other localities).

 

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

"Evert Meulie" <evert@witelcom.net> wrote in message
news:3fn3d2-aoo.ln1@witelcom.com...
> Shuttle has used it with a XP2600+ so you should at least be able to get
> up to that speed...
> http://www.shuttle.com/share/fae/hq/faq/sff/qa/Shuttle%20SK41G%20XPC.htm
>
> Regards,
> Evert
>
>
Evert, are you saying I can get the XP3000+ to run at 2600+ on this board?
How is this possible? I do know that this board only supports cpu's up to
2600+ so forgive me if I've misunderstood your reply. I'm attempting to get
the pc shop to swap the cpu for a 2600+.

Thanks for your help
Regards
GrandAdge

 

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

"Cichlidiot" <fishlover@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:ctnebs$kbt$1@skeeter.ucdavis.edu...
> grand.adge <grand.adge@themickeyntlworld.com> wrote:
> snipped<

> According to the Shuttle Global support page, the maximum supported
> processor is the 266fsb XP2600+. Here's the supported CPU list:
>
>
http://global.shuttle.com/Support/SupportList.asp?Item=SK41G&ver=SK41G%20(FX
41)
>
> Whomever you bought this from, if it was a reputable shop, should have
> known this. Depending on the BIOS settings, you are not getting the full
> performance out of your processor so what the shop told your son is more
> than likely full of BS. More appropriate Shuttle systems for an XP3000+
> (either the 333fsb or the 400fsb version) would be the SN41G2 or SN45G.
> Personally, I would be very skeptical about the credibility of the shop
> from which your son bought the system. Ask them which 3000+ it is for
> example (333fsb or 400fsb). If they can't answer, return the system and
> shop elsewhere. Or download CPUID or CPUInfo from amd.com and confirm what
> sort of processor is in the box and at what speed it is running.
>
> Personally, I would return the system and shop elsewhere. Shuttle is now
> offering complete systems from their USA website for example (not sure
> about other localities).


Thanks for reply sir, I used CPUInfo and it says that it's a1500+ (would it
recognise it as a 3000+ on this bus?), it puts speed at 1334Mhz! which is
totally unacceptable. We bought the system ready built at a Northern
Computer Market stand in Manchester (England) and it was a good price. We
could have had a system built to the spec they were advertising but that
would've taken time and my son wanted to take a system home that day, I
don't think the system we bought was up to the spec they were advertising it
at but it was there to display it's design. I'm giving the vendor the
benefit of the doubt here by saying he may not have known what was actually
in the case, we bought it purely on the spec which was attached to the
system....Shuttle, Amd XP3000+, 256Mb DDR, 16x DVDRw, 120Gb H/D. We
discovered it had a CD writer in when we got it home and the cpu was 1500+,
when my son took it back the replaced the cd writer with DVDRw and gave him
a free 256Mb ram to make up for the loss of cpu speed. I telephoned them
tonight to get the cpu exchanged for a 2600+ and he said he would do so as
soon as he gets hold of a chip but we would have to negotiate about the
"free" ram. My son will be happy with a 2600 and doesn't want to give the
system up so we'll just see how long it takes to "get hold" of a 2.6.

Much obliged for your response

GrandAdge

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

grand.adge <grand.adge@themickeyntlworld.com> wrote:

> Thanks for reply sir, I used CPUInfo and it says that it's a1500+ (would it
> recognise it as a 3000+ on this bus?), it puts speed at 1334Mhz! which is
> totally unacceptable. We bought the system ready built at a Northern
> Computer Market stand in Manchester (England) and it was a good price. We
> could have had a system built to the spec they were advertising but that
> would've taken time and my son wanted to take a system home that day, I
> don't think the system we bought was up to the spec they were advertising it
> at but it was there to display it's design. I'm giving the vendor the
> benefit of the doubt here by saying he may not have known what was actually
> in the case, we bought it purely on the spec which was attached to the
> system....Shuttle, Amd XP3000+, 256Mb DDR, 16x DVDRw, 120Gb H/D. We
> discovered it had a CD writer in when we got it home and the cpu was 1500+,
> when my son took it back the replaced the cd writer with DVDRw and gave him
> a free 256Mb ram to make up for the loss of cpu speed. I telephoned them
> tonight to get the cpu exchanged for a 2600+ and he said he would do so as
> soon as he gets hold of a chip but we would have to negotiate about the
> "free" ram. My son will be happy with a 2600 and doesn't want to give the
> system up so we'll just see how long it takes to "get hold" of a 2.6.

CPUID and CPUInfo are the utilities AMD suggests using when the BIOS is
not able to fully detect the CPU. I can't say for sure since I don't work
for AMD, but it's my understanding they bypass the BIOS to get their info,
so they should be showing the correct chip. Also, there's no way anyone
worth their salt in machine building (or even a person like me who only
builds machines every couple of years) could mistake one CPU for another
unless they've been sold a relabeled or counterfeit CPU (which to my
knowledge was only occuring in Asia). All CPUs come imprinted on their
face with a label that uniquely identifies their speed and fsb, for both
Intel and AMD chips. It would be a simple matter of looking before seating
the heatsink to tell if one was using the correct chip or not. It does
sound like you've been given the old switcheroo. Whether the owner
personally is aware of it or if he's got some funny business going on in
the back shop amongst his staff, who knows.

If your son is attached to the system and the owner is unresponsive, I am
sure you can get an OEM 2600+ (even retail, but you don't need a fan that
retail comes with so OEM is fine too) from another retailer. They are
still available in the USA from some suppliers, so the same may be true
for the UK as well. You do have to take care to get the old 2600 with
266fsb bus for your system instead of the newer Barton 2600 with 333fsb.
The trickiest part once the CPU is in hand is seating the heatsink level,
it does like to go askew. Usually takes me several tries before I get it
right. You'll also need fresh thermal paste, I like the Arctic Silver
products personally.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

grand.adge <grand.adge@themickeyntlworld.com> wrote:

> Thanks for reply sir, I used CPUInfo and it says that it's a1500+
(would it
> recognise it as a 3000+ on this bus?), it puts speed at 1334Mhz!
which is
> totally unacceptable.

<snip>

> we bought it purely on the spec which was attached to the
> system....Shuttle, Amd XP3000+, 256Mb DDR, 16x DVDRw, 120Gb H/D. We
> discovered it had a CD writer in when we got it home and the cpu was
1500+,

Whoa - calm down and take a deep breath, please.

Can you, when the PC boots, get into the BIOS? Normally this is done by
pressing DEL or F1. Among the many things listed in there should be
what is known as the Front Side Bus (FSB) speed. You should have a
choice to set it between 100 - 200 MHz. Start by setting it to a safe
value like 133 MHz.

>From the FSB speed the system derives 2 important system clocks: The
memory clock and the CPU clock.

The memory clock is traditional 2 x 100% of the FSB (the '2' is because
your memory is *Double* Data Rate (DDR) RAM.

With a FSB = 133 MHz you get a memory clock of 266 MHz (2 x 100% x 133
MHz). Converted to inflated "memory-marketing-speak" (where every bit
counts - all 8 of them) that means your memory have to be rated as 8 x
266 = 2,128 ~ PC2200 RAM. As long as it is PC2200 or higher (PC2600,
PC2800 or PC3200) it will be fine.

The CPU clock is more difficult to determine, since it depends on the
CPU-clock-multipler - which is different for different CPU models.
Typically the multipler is between 10 - 12, which means that with a FSB
of 133 MHz, the CPU will run at anything between 1,330 MHZ (1,29 GHz)
and 1,596 MHz (1,5 GHz).

In addition to the MHz ("1334Mhz") CPUInfo should also report some
"hard facts" about the CPU: Model, stepping, revision, type. Using this
information you should go to www.amd.com and see what the CPU multipler
is for your CPU, and what the max. FSB speed is.

Similar you should find a program that will get the type of "hard
facts" about the RAM.

Armed with this you can sit down and calculate which FSB speed to set
in the BIOS. E.g. if the CPU can run at 2,3 GHz (200 MHz FSB x 12
multi) and the RAM is rated as PC3200 (200 Mhz x 2 x 8), then raise the
FSB in the BIOS from the safe 133 MHz, to 166 MHz, 180 Mhz, 190 MHz,
and finally 200 MHz.

But you also need to consider the motherboard itself. Even if the CPU
and the RAM is rated for a 200 MHz FSB, the motherboard might not be
able to function at that speed. Perhaps it will only do 166 MHz. In
that case you have two options:

Option 1) Speed up the memory by keeping the FSB at 166 MHz while
upping the RAM speed from 2 x 100% to 2 x 120% (e.g. 166 MHz x 2 x 120%
=~3,200 MHz). The 100%, 120% settings should be in the BIOS. But do it
smaller steps: 110%, 115%, 117%, ...

Options 2) Speed up the CPU by increasing the CPU-multiplier.
Unfortunately not all BIOS'es & motherboards give you the options of
changing the multipler.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

"Evert Meulie" <evert@witelcom.net> wrote in message
news:70h6d2-eas.ln1@witelcom.com...
> No, I am saying that a XP2600+ would work with that board...
>
> Can't say anything about a 3000+ though. If I remember correctly those
> are a different 'series', so there's a good chance that it will NOT
work...
> On the other hand, the system does boot, so maybe it's just a matter of
> a BIOS update. Have you tried Shuttle support? They usually reply to
> emails fairly quickly...
>
> Regards,
> Evert
>

Ok mate, I misunderstood your reply. The 3000+ won't work with this board so
I waiting for a 2600+ replacement.

Thanks again

GrandAdge

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

"Cichlidiot" <fishlover@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:ctovln$lqs$1@skeeter.ucdavis.edu...
> grand.adge <grand.adge@themickeyntlworld.com> wrote:
> CPUID and CPUInfo are the utilities AMD suggests using when the BIOS is
> not able to fully detect the CPU. I can't say for sure since I don't work
> for AMD, but it's my understanding they bypass the BIOS to get their info,
> so they should be showing the correct chip. Also, there's no way anyone
> worth their salt in machine building (or even a person like me who only
> builds machines every couple of years) could mistake one CPU for another
> unless they've been sold a relabeled or counterfeit CPU (which to my
> knowledge was only occuring in Asia). All CPUs come imprinted on their
> face with a label that uniquely identifies their speed and fsb, for both
> Intel and AMD chips. It would be a simple matter of looking before seating
> the heatsink to tell if one was using the correct chip or not. It does
> sound like you've been given the old switcheroo. Whether the owner
> personally is aware of it or if he's got some funny business going on in
> the back shop amongst his staff, who knows.
>
> If your son is attached to the system and the owner is unresponsive, I am
> sure you can get an OEM 2600+ (even retail, but you don't need a fan that
> retail comes with so OEM is fine too) from another retailer. They are
> still available in the USA from some suppliers, so the same may be true
> for the UK as well. You do have to take care to get the old 2600 with
> 266fsb bus for your system instead of the newer Barton 2600 with 333fsb.
> The trickiest part once the CPU is in hand is seating the heatsink level,
> it does like to go askew. Usually takes me several tries before I get it
> right. You'll also need fresh thermal paste, I like the Arctic Silver
> products personally.


Cichlidiot, I don't think the seller is using fake chips or anything of that
nature, I think the system he sold to us didn't match the advertised specs
because it was a display system and he would normally take orders for the
shop to build the system. My son wanted the system there and then and it's
possible the guy didn't know exactly what was in that case, I'm being
charitable here because he had a lot of system on view and he isn't the
system builder himself. He just compounded his mistake when he told my son a
load of rubbish to my son about the speed it would be running at.
They have assured me that they will exchange the cpu for a 2600+ has soon
has they get hold of a 266fsb chip. I am awaiting a call.
Thanks for all the information you posted, it's been very helpful and
informative.


--
Regards
GrandAdge

(take "the mickey" out)

 

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

"MiniMax" <OIRZQQPYOETK@spammotel.com> wrote in message
news:1107375545.988378.112580@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> grand.adge <grand.adge@themickeyntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> Whoa - calm down and take a deep breath, please.
>

I can assure you I am very calm MiniMax, despite all the frustrating calls
to the shop in question.
Thanks for all the information you posted, I'll need to take a little time
to digest all that but in the meantime I'm waiting on a replacement 2600+
cpu for my sons machine.

much obliged to all


--
Regards
GrandAdge

(take "the mickey" out)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

grand.adge <grand.adge@themickeyntlworld.com> wrote:
> Cichlidiot, I don't think the seller is using fake chips or anything of that
> nature, I think the system he sold to us didn't match the advertised specs
> because it was a display system and he would normally take orders for the
> shop to build the system. My son wanted the system there and then and it's
> possible the guy didn't know exactly what was in that case, I'm being
> charitable here because he had a lot of system on view and he isn't the
> system builder himself. He just compounded his mistake when he told my son a
> load of rubbish to my son about the speed it would be running at.
> They have assured me that they will exchange the cpu for a 2600+ has soon
> has they get hold of a 266fsb chip. I am awaiting a call.

Perhaps I'm just being too uncharitable, but no shop worth its salt should
ever have advertised a 3000+ in a SK41G because it just won't work. Now as
I said previously, it would in a SN41G2 or a SN45G, but not a SK41G.
Perhaps it was intended to go into one of those two boxes and the display
system was an older model. Overall, seems rather fishy to me IMO.