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SN41G2 strange power up behaviour

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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 24, 2005 3:57:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

I press the On button and can take from 5 to 30 seconds before it
decides to start powering up. Anyone know why this is?

Mal

More about : sn41g2 strange power behaviour

Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 24, 2005 4:43:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

Nope but mine has started doing this too. Are you connected to a LAN?
"Mal Franks" <spampit@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d9f417c77d137d7989681@news.individual.net...
> I press the On button and can take from 5 to 30 seconds before it
> decides to start powering up. Anyone know why this is?
>
> Mal
September 24, 2005 6:05:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

All I could guess would be the power is not correct and it is waiting
for a good signal. The paperweight I have right now will not even power up.

Clark

Mal Franks wrote:
> I press the On button and can take from 5 to 30 seconds before it
> decides to start powering up. Anyone know why this is?
>
> Mal
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Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 27, 2005 8:07:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

Thorin sat down and started singing about gold. Gandalf entered. Gandalf
said "hurry up". After being threatened with a cloven skull, from one
well placed blow, andymccall@btopenworld.com said...
> Nope but mine has started doing this too. Are you connected to a LAN?

Yes, but it has always been connected to one.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 29, 2005 11:38:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

My son's SN41G2 that I built back in 2003 is also exhibiting the same
problems. If I press the case button and nothing happens. If I hold the
button down for a few seconds, the keyboard lights will flicker on, but the
computer still will not power on. However, after popping off the case, I
notice that the green LED light next to the RAM chips is lit which I believe
indicates a voltage problem between the board and the memory sticks.. The
machine is running a 2200 XP chip with two Fry's generic 512 MB PC2200 sticks
(one year warranty). I got 3 years out of the memory, so I'm thinking it's
going out - but I'm not getting any POST errors. I'm planning on swapping
out the memory. If it fixes the problem, I'll report back.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 29, 2005 11:40:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

sevenyo11 wrote:
>My son's SN41G2 that I built back in 2003 is also exhibiting the same
>problems. If I press the case button and nothing happens. If I hold the
>button down for a few seconds, the keyboard lights will flicker on, but the
>computer still will not power on. However, after popping off the case, I
>notice that the green LED light next to the RAM chips is lit which I believe
>indicates a voltage problem between the board and the memory sticks.. The
>machine is running a 2200 XP chip with two Fry's generic 512 MB PC2200 sticks
>(one year warranty). I got 3 years out of the memory, so I'm thinking it's
>going out - but I'm not getting any POST errors. I'm planning on swapping
>out the memory. If it fixes the problem, I'll report back.

I forgot to add, the computer fires up after a few minutes after pressing the
case button. It runs fine once it starts - but the problem is getting it to
start up.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
September 29, 2005 1:32:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.shuttle (More info?)

sevenyo11 via HWKB.com <u14393@uwe> wrote:
: My son's SN41G2 that I built back in 2003 is also exhibiting the same
: problems. If I press the case button and nothing happens. If I hold the
: button down for a few seconds, the keyboard lights will flicker on, but the
: computer still will not power on. However, after popping off the case, I
: notice that the green LED light next to the RAM chips is lit which I believe
: indicates a voltage problem between the board and the memory sticks.. The
: machine is running a 2200 XP chip with two Fry's generic 512 MB PC2200 sticks
: (one year warranty). I got 3 years out of the memory, so I'm thinking it's
: going out - but I'm not getting any POST errors. I'm planning on swapping
: out the memory. If it fixes the problem, I'll report back.

The green LED you reference simply means the board is getting power from
the PSU. It will always be on when the machine is plugged in unless the power
supply is totally dead. My SN41G2 also starting displaying similar symptoms.
The first boot-up after I moved, the keyboard port was unrecognized. Powered
down using the mouse to select the proper shutdown options. Tested keyboard
on laptop where it worked fine. Went back to the SN41G2 and it would not
boot up. A Google search turned up many other people with these same problems.
Rather than tear my hair out trying to get it to work, I purchased a
mid-tower case and mobo I've had good performance from in the past and
transferred all the hardware over. It all works fine, so that suggest to me
that the SN41G2's problem is either the mobo or the power supply. I couldn't
see any buldging capacitors, so it's probably not the capacitor issue that
plagued earlier models (like the SV24 I have which is also a door stop now).
In my case, it's possible one of my friends accidently mishandled it during
the move and that sped up the machine's demise. The machine was having
intermittant keyboard issues before the move, but that could have been the
KVM.
January 1, 2007 8:16:50 AM

I know this thread is quite old now, but I would be interested to know if anyone has detected whether the fault lies with the mobo or the psu. My 3-year old FN41 has met the same problem. Before I chuck it, I would like to know if repair is a realistic option.
Thanks
Jonathan
January 1, 2007 10:12:30 AM

Hi,

I had the same problem with my SN41G2 - it gradually got worse up to the point where the computer wouldn't start up at all anymore. Having a spare power supply lying around, I plugged that one in, and everything worked smoothly again (and that green led thingy lit up nicely too).

Plugged in the old power supply a few days later to see whether it had mended its ways, but the led on the mobo hardly came on, and the computer wouldn't start up, so tossed it out.

I now have a 'modular system' setup with a regular power supply somewhere behind and outside the computer case, but it works fine for me so won't bother changing that.

Bottomn line: don't toss out your mobo - toss out your power supply.

hope this helps, and have a good new year,
Marcel
January 1, 2007 10:31:06 AM

Yup - Got an SN41G2 myself and had exactly the same problem. I think it is caused by an aging PSU tking a little while to 'warm-up' and supply a steady enough voltage to get the MB to give a power good signal.

Replacing the stock 200W PSU with a 250W 'silent X' psu stopped this problem for me - it is running now with a 2400 Athlon XP, 1 gig ram and a 6600GT video card flawlessly even under full load.
January 3, 2007 12:44:13 AM

I, too, am having the same power-up problem described in this thread. About 2 weeks ago, my Shuttle SN41G started flaking out on me. It would spontaneously reboot while I was in the middle of surfing the net or whatever. Then, I could power up, but it would give me less and less time every use. After a few more days, I was barely getting past the memory count-up, so I set the BIOS to the fail-safe settings, thinking maybe it was an overheating problem. After a few more days, it wouldn't power up at all, but would sit there for 20 minutes after I hit the power and it would finally power up for a few seconds, then reset. I was getting no display on the monitor.

First, since I thought it was overheating, I bought some thermal grease and spread it on the chip, cleaned the cooling system and fans, etc. That didn't help. It still wouldn't power up at all.

So I Googled the problem to see what others were saying. I found out this is a widespread problem. Some people suggest switching around the memory. I tried that with no luck. Some people suggested a new power supply would do the trick. So I bought one. It just came in today. I put in the new power supply, and it still won't power up at all. The green LED comes on on the motherboard, but no fans come on. So far, no matter how long it sits there, I get no power-up.

I just wanted to warn you that a new power supply might not fix your problem. If you have another ATX power supply sitting around, you might want to try that first to see if the power supply is the culprit.

I'm frustrated. This little machine has been trouble-free for almost 3 years. I'm still searching for an answer.
January 3, 2007 7:01:55 PM

Thanks guys for your feedback.
Sounds to me like Doogie's problem is a bit different from mine: my machine will work fine when/if eventually it powers up. In fact, I leave it running in standby if I can to avoid cold booting. Steady as a rock. Doogie's problem is resetting while the machine is running which may have a different cause.
So the general view is that the PSU is the culprit, at least for the type of start-up problem that I am experiencing. I do have a spare AT supply in the attic so I'll try that. If that does solve the problem, does anyone know where to buy a spare Shuttle psu at a reasonable price, ie significantly less than the GBP80 it costs to buy a new barebones?
Best regards
Jonathan
January 4, 2007 7:23:56 AM

Hi
Just a quick follow-up to my last post. There is an excellent article about interaction between an ATX psu and the mobo at:
http://web2.murraystate.edu/andy.batts/ps/POWER_OK.HTM
From this, it appears most likely that our problems are related to the power_ok signal. Either the psu is not generating this signal to spec, and this is delaying or preventing the start of the BIOS POST sequence. Or the mobo is not properly detecting this signal and thinks that the psu is not starting or is failing. So I guess testing with a replacement psu is still the only way to tell where the fault lies.
I've found that old ATX psu so I'll hook it up and let you know how it goes for my machine. Personally, I think a faulty psu is the most likely reason given the high temp environment within a psu - especially a compact one like the Shuttle's.
Best regards
Jonathan
January 12, 2007 7:46:06 PM

My problem is resolved, but I'm still not sure why. I left the new power supply in place, and started removing drives until the machine would power on. I removed the floppy first, then the DVD-ROM, then the hard drive, and boom, it worked.

I thought it was the hard drive, so I hooked up the CD-ROM and I could boot from a CD. I got in and reset the BIOS settings to the default factory settings. I then powered down and started adding the drives back one by one. Finally, I was able to get everything working again, and it has been trouble free for about a week. (The clean-up and new thermal grease helped the CPU temperature, too. It stays around 39 - 40 c most of the time now).

I wish I could tell you what did the trick, but I really don't know.
March 28, 2007 7:29:55 PM

i just want to come with my story too... :) 

i have a SN41G, and it has the same with the PSU like dont want to turn on immediately.

but when i take out the power cord, for one hour, it has reset the bios completely. can it be the PSU that courses this too? i have replaced the small sysbattery :( 

i still have the stock 200W PSU.

System specs:
Athlon 3000+, 1 gig ram, ATi Radeon X800.
2 HDDs, one dvd-rom, and a Terratec tv tuner 8)
May 29, 2007 1:03:26 PM

My SN41G2 had power up problems. It started 6 months ago -- taking a few seconds to start boot up after pressing the power button. Then after a few weeks it took a few minutes, then upto an hour. Then last week it wouldn't boot up at all (after pressing the power button).

I read somewhere that replacing the battery on the motherboard fixed this problem, so I bought a new battery (the type you put in a watch - can't remember the number, but if you take out your battery on the motherboard, that'll tell you the battery number (CR2somethingsomethingsomething).

Anyway, replacing the battery didn't fix the problem. So I bought a new power unit. A 250W Shuttle SilentX PSU (my old PSU was 200W). And that fixed the problem :)  my computer booted up immediately after pressing the power button.

So if you find replacing the battery doesn't work, replace the power unit. The Shuttle SilentX PSU is slightly longer then the PSU that came with my SN 41G2, but it still fits into the computer.

Genolus.
December 11, 2007 8:51:17 PM

For those having problems of delayed start ups, it will degenerate till it appears to not start at all. Mine would sometimes come on in middle of night but not last long. At first I thought it was power button.

I purchased a new PSU 300w and it powers board immediately, along with fans.

It just won't post though. I will probably swap memory and perhaps change batteries. At least to clear the BIOS but I am not hopeful.

I removed all periphials and put a new SATA HD in. But so far no beeps and no video. But the hard drive spins.

Am wondering if maybe my BIOS chip took the leap during the power fiasco. That would be my luck.

Keith
cooperweb.com
June 9, 2008 6:39:12 PM

http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/forums/viewthread/925...

Exact same problem exact same solution.

I purchased a new PSU 200w and my shuttle works fine.

Before i would hit the power button and 10-20min 1 hour later it would boot up. Up to the point where 2-3 days later still nothing.

I got a new identical size psu from sonaggi (computer store across the street from me) and it booted up first time no problems.

My new core 2 duo shuttle pc is starting to do the same thing, so i imagine its a problem with the design of the psu. Or whatever they use for a supplier.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 4, 2009 7:52:31 AM

I've been reading the posts and have a SN41G2 that has exactly the same problem - turn on the power to the CPU box and then wait 5 to 10 minutes before the unit boots up on its own.

Seems to be related to the temp of the Power Supply Unit (PSU) - if cold a long delay, if still hot (i.e. run for several hours then powered down and powered back up after a couple of minutes), then it boots straight away. Should mention that I am in Australia, so the CPU doesn't get real cold at any time...

Based on the info in this thread, will order a new PSU and see if that fixes the problem as the system is still stable - once it wakes up...

July 19, 2009 6:28:54 AM

My SN41G2 was doing exactly the same thing (power up, no post that can be detected on video.) After the following:
(1) A Brand new (and improved) power supply
(2) BIOS upgrade from e-Support
(3) *FIVE* flashed BIOS chips (from e-Support AND from Shuttle)
(4) Many CMOS batteries, "just in case"
(5) Taken apart--the whole thing--throughout the process, re-gooping the CPU, reseating EVERYTHING, including removing and replacing the (same) mainboard, trying different memory, etc etc etc...
(6) Tried Yet Another Power Supply
(7) Waved the Rubber Chicken over it (a very technical repair tool)
...after which I started thinking about how hot it tended to run with an Athlon XP 3000+... I'm now convinced that the problem (electronically) is centered around the video chip, or possibly a trace to the BIOS chip. In other words the mb is dead, ceases to work.. it is no more... it's passed away... given up the ghost.... it is NOT resting. It's NOT going to wake up.
Has anybody been able to get anything out of Shuttle re: info about what mb/CPU combo will fit this particular box, and how does one go about getting one.... (Specifically, are the mb's that fit the ICE2 thingie in the newer models backwards compatible with ICE "1"? And will Shuttle sell a mb *only*?) I've sent email, snailmail, and everything else--with the possible exception of carrier pigeon. I suppose I could try <shudder> the phone.
The amazing thing is that my original Shuttle Spacewalker box, mb, etc., is still running just fine... and it's *ancient*. (This SN41G2 has been an "issue" for a couple years now, and I don't tend to give up easily... obviously. Now it's *personal*.)
Any ideas?
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
August 23, 2009 9:05:29 PM

This is a pretty old thread, but someone might still be reading...

I have a SN41G2 that I thought I'd bring out of retirement as a little linux server. It started up but switched itself off within about 30 seconds. The CMOS backup cell was flat, so I replaced that. I also thought the problem might be due to my swapping processors so that the clocking was wrong, so I tried a couple of other CPUs I had. I tried the procedure shuttle provides for recovery from overclocking reboots. Nothing worked. Eventually I tried hooking up another power supply, and that worked just fine, but the PSU was too big to be a permanent solution.

So I delved into the PSU and did some fairly dicey live testing (the PSU carries lethal voltages, so don't try this unless you know what you're doing) It turns out that the standby 5V is collapsing after about 30 s due to the standby controller IC (a Power Integrations TNY267P) overheating. The IC has an internal temperature monitor that shuts it down. I've looked at all the components in the standby circuit and can't find anything else wrong, so I suspect the IC has an internal fault. I'm going to replace it and (if I remember) I'll post the results here.

It's fairly easy to diagnose this problem. Remove the case cover and leave the PC disconnected for a few minutes. Plug in the mains but don't switch on the PC. There's a little green LED close to the main CPU that shows the state of the standby voltage. It should come on as soon as you plug in the mains. Watch it for a little while. If the LED goes out, it's a problem with the standby circuit.

Good luck.
Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
August 25, 2009 8:58:36 PM

I remembered, so here's some more feedback.

The green led on my SN41 is casting a cheerful green glow, and all seems well - so far. After checking various components in the standby power supply I bit the bullet and ordered a couple of TNY268PN from Farnell (a UK distributor). The '268 is very similar to the 267 but has a slightly higher power rating. Maybe they select them during testing. Fitting it was a little awkward due to the lack of space. I removed the standby transformer to give me a bit more access. After replacing the IC and transformer, I cleaned off the flux and checked all looked OK. I connected the mains to the PSU and got a good output on the standby 5V, and it stayed up this time. After unplugging the PSU from the mains and waiting for the reservoir caps to discharge, I felt the PCB area under the IC and it was nice and cool. Good news. So I put the PSU back together, restored it to the SN41 case and connected it up. I'm doing a soak test now and it's looking very encouraging. Good luck if you want to try this, but remember that the fault in your PSU might not be the same as mine, and, as always, be very careful when messing with mains. You're worth a lot more than that PSU.
October 3, 2009 12:10:31 PM

Just to add my twopennyworth to this debate. My SN41G2 had exactly the same problems as described i.e. it would sometimes take half an hour to start.

I cam across this discussion and decided to replace the power supply with a 250w SilentX PSU that I had cannibalized from a SN85G4 that had failed. Bingo - problem solved.

I have one small problem remaining though - every so often the BIOS 'loses' it's settings and resets itself. A bit annoying having to reset dates etc. and I am thinking that the CMOS battery has gone so will replace it and update this thread in case anyone else has the same problem.
!