So what if thermal compound spreads?

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?

Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
71 answers Last reply
More about thermal compound spreads
  1. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    CrackerJack wrote:

    > What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    >
    > Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?


    If you put on so much that the compound squashes out past the edges,
    that's too much. It generally won't do any damage, but will be nowhere
    near as efficient as if you had used less.


    -WD
  2. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Depends, depends on how much and the CPU. On the Intel, much less of a
    problem (as long as it's not creeping around on to the underside!). On the
    AMD, much more problematic. The AMD core is *exposed*, and thus there are
    various "bridges" that surround it. The last thing you want to do is
    "short" one of those bridges because you got to sloppy w/ the thermal paste!

    But having too much paste indicates another problem. The paste is ONLY
    there to fill the microscopic imperfections between the mating surfaces. If
    those surfaces were perfect, you wouldn't even need the paste, in fact, it
    would *hinder* heat transfer. If you have so much paste on the mating
    surfaces that installation causes much of it to squeeze out, it indicates
    you have too much paste! Think of it this way, if we could use the paste to
    fill ONLY the imperfections, that would be ideal. Every bit of paste that
    *interferes* with contact between the CPU and heatsink is working NEGATIVELY
    against heat trasnfer. We're only interested in preventing VOIDS between
    the mating surfaces. Anything that's NOT filling the voids and is actually
    *preventing* surface to surface contact between the CPU and heatsink and
    thus *hindering* heat transfer, not helping.

    Bottomline: The less the better, ideally zero, but since this is an
    imperfect world, we need some, so use as little as possible.

    HTH

    Jim


    "CrackerJack" <binaryblobNOTTHISBIT@hotpop.com> wrote in message
    news:94C89175463C6AD265@64.62.191.93...
    > What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    >
    > Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
  3. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    In article <94C89175463C6AD265@64.62.191.93>, "CrackerJack"
    binaryblobNOTTHISBIT@hotpop.com says...
    > What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    >
    > Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
    >
    Only if it's electrically conductive, or if there's so much that it
    actually holds the heatsink off the CPU. But why not just put a
    reasonable amount on in the first place?
  4. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 23:51:38 GMT, Will Dormann
    <wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

    >CrackerJack wrote:
    >
    >> What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    >> core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    >>
    >> Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
    >
    >
    >If you put on so much that the compound squashes out past the edges,
    >that's too much. It generally won't do any damage, but will be nowhere
    >near as efficient as if you had used less.
    >

    Unless you start out with an absolutely horrendous heatsink and don't
    apply enough compound (it is practically impossible to apply EXACTLY the
    amount needed) it will always squish out to a certain extent. Take off a
    heatsink and look at the base, you see the outline of the CPU core due to
    the compound squishing out. Even the thinnest layer of compound possible
    should squish out a little if the heatsink is properly finished.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

    On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 02:04:43 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:


    >Unless you start out with an absolutely horrendous heatsink and don't
    >apply enough compound (it is practically impossible to apply EXACTLY the
    >amount needed) it will always squish out to a certain extent. Take off a
    >heatsink and look at the base, you see the outline of the CPU core due to
    >the compound squishing out. Even the thinnest layer of compound possible
    >should squish out a little if the heatsink is properly finished.

    So put some on and wipe it off. What's left is probably more than
    enough. What part of "just a little" don't you understand ?
  6. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Conor <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.1ae2ae31b90d7b0a98a2a5@news.claranews.com>...
    > In article <94C89175463C6AD265@64.62.191.93>,
    > binaryblobNOTTHISBIT@hotpop.com says...
    > > What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > > core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    > >
    > > Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
    > >
    > Yes as it acts as an insulator. The idea of thermal compound is to fill
    > the very small scratches on the faces.

    Actually the thermal paste is non-conductive. For maximum heat
    transfer from the core to the heatsink, the two metal pieces need to
    touch as much as possible. Hence, the addition on the paste fills in
    the imperfections.

    Other than being a mess, things should work just fine.
  7. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    No problem at all .... if you don't mind higher temps !
    You need to maximise metal-metal contact.
    With a mirror-shine finish (above 1200 grit), you only need invisible
    amounts of goop.
    Enough to take off the shine, only.

    "CrackerJack" <binaryblobNOTTHISBIT@hotpop.com> wrote in message
    news:94C89175463C6AD265@64.62.191.93...
    > What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    >
    > Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
  8. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    You don't say why it's inefficient !
    Do you mean wasteful or something else constituting inefficient.
    A vague and meaningless answer.


    "Will Dormann" <wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message
    news:eM%dc.2804$T86.1685@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
    > CrackerJack wrote:
    >
    > > What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > > core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    > >
    > > Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
    >
    >
    > If you put on so much that the compound squashes out past the edges,
    > that's too much. It generally won't do any damage, but will be nowhere
    > near as efficient as if you had used less.
    >
    >
    > -WD
  9. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

    <headbanger@wall.com> wrote in message
    news:s1ph7093ei5rougrqpp2uvuv4u7jd8pamk@4ax.com...
    > On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 02:04:43 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >Unless you start out with an absolutely horrendous heatsink and don't
    > >apply enough compound (it is practically impossible to apply EXACTLY the
    > >amount needed) it will always squish out to a certain extent. Take off a
    > >heatsink and look at the base, you see the outline of the CPU core due to
    > >the compound squishing out. Even the thinnest layer of compound possible
    > >should squish out a little if the heatsink is properly finished.
    >
    > So put some on and wipe it off.


    Or just put on as much as you need, to start with.
    Duh !


    What's left is probably more than
    > enough. What part of "just a little" don't you understand ?
    >
    >
  10. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    In article <b24e73dd.0404110201.326cd75e@posting.google.com>, "John"
    jkrytus@yahoo.com says...
    > Conor <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.1ae2ae31b90d7b0a98a2a5@news.claranews.com>...
    > > In article <94C89175463C6AD265@64.62.191.93>,
    > > binaryblobNOTTHISBIT@hotpop.com says...
    > > > What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > > > core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    > > >
    > > > Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
    > > >
    > > Yes as it acts as an insulator. The idea of thermal compound is to fill
    > > the very small scratches on the faces.
    >
    > Actually the thermal paste is non-conductive.

    Eh?
  11. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Rob Morley" <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1ae32ca437f9894c98988e@news.individual.net...
    > In article <b24e73dd.0404110201.326cd75e@posting.google.com>, "John"
    > jkrytus@yahoo.com says...
    > > Conor <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:<MPG.1ae2ae31b90d7b0a98a2a5@news.claranews.com>...
    > > > In article <94C89175463C6AD265@64.62.191.93>,
    > > > binaryblobNOTTHISBIT@hotpop.com says...
    > > > > What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > > > > core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    > > > >
    > > > > Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
    > > > >
    > > > Yes as it acts as an insulator. The idea of thermal compound is to
    fill
    > > > the very small scratches on the faces.
    > >
    > > Actually the thermal paste is non-conductive.
    >
    > Eh?


    You thought he meant thermally, we realised he meant electrically.


    >
  12. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    In article <c5b83m$633$1@sparta.btinternet.com>, "QBall"
    qball__@btinternet.com says...
    >
    > "Rob Morley" <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
    > news:MPG.1ae32ca437f9894c98988e@news.individual.net...
    > > In article <b24e73dd.0404110201.326cd75e@posting.google.com>, "John"
    > > jkrytus@yahoo.com says...
    > > > Conor <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:<MPG.1ae2ae31b90d7b0a98a2a5@news.claranews.com>...
    > > > > In article <94C89175463C6AD265@64.62.191.93>,
    > > > > binaryblobNOTTHISBIT@hotpop.com says...
    > > > > > What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > > > > > core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
    > > > > >
    > > > > Yes as it acts as an insulator. The idea of thermal compound is to
    > fill
    > > > > the very small scratches on the faces.
    > > >
    > > > Actually the thermal paste is non-conductive.
    > >
    > > Eh?
    >
    >
    > You thought he meant thermally, we realised he meant electrically.
    >
    I realised he could have meant either, so asked for elaboration.
    Actually some thermal compund is electrically conductive too, so I think
    it was a dangerous statement to make.
  13. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Conor" <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1ae2ae31b90d7b0a98a2a5@news.claranews.com...
    > In article <94C89175463C6AD265@64.62.191.93>,
    > binaryblobNOTTHISBIT@hotpop.com says...
    > > What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > > core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    > >
    > > Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
    >
    > Yes as it acts as an insulator.

    But more conductive than air, which is why it is used.

    Alex
  14. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "QBall" <qball__@btinternet.com> wrote in message
    news:c5b2hr$l9s$1@titan.btinternet.com...
    > You don't say why it's inefficient !
    > Do you mean wasteful or something else constituting inefficient.
    > A vague and meaningless answer.

    He means heat transfer will not be as good due to the large gap between the
    core and the heatsink (I think large is a good word because much of this is
    discuss'd on a "microscopic level"
  15. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:

    >> What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put
    >> on the core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding
    >> area?
    >>
    >> Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with
    >> this?
    >>
    > Only if it's electrically conductive, or if there's so much
    > that it actually holds the heatsink off the CPU. But why not
    > just put a reasonable amount on in the first place?


    It is hard to judge the exact amount. Rather than put too little
    on and run the risk of not conducting heat away from the core, I
    usually err on the side of putting too much on.
  16. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "rstlne" <.@text.news.virgin.net> wrote:

    >> You don't say why it's inefficient !
    >> Do you mean wasteful or something else constituting
    >> inefficient. A vague and meaningless answer.
    >
    > He means heat transfer will not be as good due to the large
    > gap between the core and the heatsink (I think large is a good
    > word because much of this is discuss'd on a "microscopic
    > level"


    If the goo squishes out then presumably the layer of goo is no
    thicker or thinner than if it didn't squish out?
  17. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    jkrytus@yahoo.com (John) wrote:

    >> > What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put
    >> > on the core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding
    >> > area?
    >> >
    >> > Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with
    >> > this?
    >> >
    >> Yes as it acts as an insulator. The idea of thermal compound
    >> is to fill the very small scratches on the faces.
    >
    > Actually the thermal paste is non-conductive. For maximum
    > heat transfer from the core to the heatsink, the two metal
    > pieces need to touch as much as possible. Hence, the addition
    > on the paste fills in the imperfections.
    >
    > Other than being a mess, things should work just fine.


    So something like a pinhead or two should be enough?

    And a matchhead would be too much?
  18. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:

    >> > > > Yes as it acts as an insulator. The idea of thermal
    >> > > > compound is to fill the very small scratches on the
    >> > > > faces.
    >> > >
    >> > > Actually the thermal paste is non-conductive.
    >> >
    >> > Eh?
    >>
    >>
    >> You thought he meant thermally, we realised he meant
    >> electrically.
    >>
    > I realised he could have meant either, so asked for
    > elaboration. Actually some thermal compund is electrically
    > conductive too,


    Which one?


    > so I think it was a dangerous statement to
    > make.
    >
  19. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    In article <94C89EB51ADD861M2A@208.42.66.156>, "Max"
    max.headroom@microsoft.com says...
    > Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    >
    > >> > > > Yes as it acts as an insulator. The idea of thermal
    > >> > > > compound is to fill the very small scratches on the
    > >> > > > faces.
    > >> > >
    > >> > > Actually the thermal paste is non-conductive.
    > >> >
    > >> > Eh?
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> You thought he meant thermally, we realised he meant
    > >> electrically.
    > >>
    > > I realised he could have meant either, so asked for
    > > elaboration. Actually some thermal compund is electrically
    > > conductive too,
    >
    > Which one?
    >
    Any of the stuff that's filled with metallic particles is potentially
    electrically conductive.
  20. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    In article <94C89DEF01E1731E75@130.133.1.4>, "Piotr Makley"
    pmakley@mail.com says...
    > Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    >
    > >> What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put
    > >> on the core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding
    > >> area?
    > >>
    > >> Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with
    > >> this?
    > >>
    > > Only if it's electrically conductive, or if there's so much
    > > that it actually holds the heatsink off the CPU. But why not
    > > just put a reasonable amount on in the first place?
    >
    >
    > It is hard to judge the exact amount. Rather than put too little
    > on and run the risk of not conducting heat away from the core, I
    > usually err on the side of putting too much on.
    >
    If you're not sure then try with a very small amount, remove the
    heatsink again and see how it's spread. Then clean and repeat. If you
    don't clean it off in between applications there's more chance that you
    will trap air in the compound.
  21. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    CrackerJack <binaryblobNOTTHISBIT@hotpop.com> wrote:

    >What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    >core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?

    >Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?

    You'll always get a little but if you are squeezing a lot out it
    indicates you've applied far too much, meaning the layer of paste
    between the processor die/heatspreader and heatsink is too thick.

    Remember, the idea is NOT to form a layer between the two surfaces.
    The purpose of the paste is to fill the valleys in the contact
    surfaces with something which is more efficient at transferring heat
    away from the CPU core than the air which would otherwise fill the
    gaps. Even the best thermal material is less efficient than direct
    contact between the two metal surfaces.

    Also, some thermal materials can be slightly electrically conductive,
    so if leaks out and bridges gaps in electrical contacts it is possible
    that it will result in reliability problems or even permanent damage
    to components.

    --
    >iv< Paul >iv<
  22. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Rob Morley" <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1ae36bb2c4360fac98989b@news.individual.net...
    > In article <94C89DEF01E1731E75@130.133.1.4>, "Piotr Makley"
    > pmakley@mail.com says...
    > > Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > >> What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put
    > > >> on the core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding
    > > >> area?
    > > >>
    > > >> Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with
    > > >> this?
    > > >>
    > > > Only if it's electrically conductive, or if there's so much
    > > > that it actually holds the heatsink off the CPU. But why not
    > > > just put a reasonable amount on in the first place?
    > >
    > >
    > > It is hard to judge the exact amount. Rather than put too little
    > > on and run the risk of not conducting heat away from the core,


    You clearly have no understanding of thermal transfer, which is maximised
    via metal-metal contact.
    You fall into the ingenue's trap of believing more is better, when it fact
    less is more.


    I
    > > usually err on the side of putting too much on.
    > >
    > If you're not sure then try with a very small amount, remove the
    > heatsink again and see how it's spread. Then clean and repeat. If you
    > don't clean it off in between applications there's more chance that you
    > will trap air in the compound.
  23. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Max wrote:

    > Which one?


    I do know that artic silver 1 is slightly conductive, but the more worrying
    thing is the capacitance if it gets too close to contacts.

    http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm

    --
    Mark
    Iligitimi Non Carborundum!
    Twixt hill and high water, N.Wales, UK
  24. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Matt <matt@themattfella.zzzz.com> wrote:

    >>>>I realised he could have meant either, so asked for
    >>>>elaboration. Actually some thermal compund is electrically
    >>>>conductive too,

    >> Any of the stuff that's filled with metallic particles is potentially
    >> electrically conductive.

    >Please name one.

    Arctic Silver is capacitive, rather than conductive, but the same
    applies in terms of application. Their instructions state:

    "While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper
    greases, Arctic Silver should be kept away from electrical traces,
    pins, and leads. While it is not electrically conductive, the compound
    is slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it
    bridges two close-proximity electrical paths.)"

    I wouldn't doubt there are other compounds around which are
    electrically conductive.

    --
    >iv< Paul >iv<
  25. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 15:35:21 +0100, Piotr Makley <pmakley@mail.com> wrote:

    >jkrytus@yahoo.com (John) wrote:
    >
    >>> > What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put
    >>> > on the core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding
    >>> > area?
    >>> >
    >>> > Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with
    >>> > this?
    >>> >
    >>> Yes as it acts as an insulator. The idea of thermal compound
    >>> is to fill the very small scratches on the faces.
    >>
    >> Actually the thermal paste is non-conductive. For maximum
    >> heat transfer from the core to the heatsink, the two metal
    >> pieces need to touch as much as possible. Hence, the addition
    >> on the paste fills in the imperfections.
    >>
    >> Other than being a mess, things should work just fine.
    >
    >
    >So something like a pinhead or two should be enough?
    >
    >And a matchhead would be too much?

    I've heard a grain of rice size is good. A matchhead should work.
    I like to get single edged razor blades from the hardware to spread
    it thinly and evenly. Think of frosting a cake<G>.
    I've even heard it said that you should even be able to almost read
    the CPU die thru a thin haze of compound but given the wide range
    of heatsink finishes, I would only go that thinly on a lapped HS.
    Take your time and run it out evenly to all corners of the die.
    Then at the last, try to run the razorblade all the way across from one
    side to the other making a single unbroken even surface.

    The Artic Silver people suggest rubbing compound into the base of the
    heatsink, and then wiping it all off (NOT with alcohol!) with a cloth
    before putting it straight down on top of the CPU (no twisting/slipping).
    Supposedly it will imbed some of the compound in the "pores" of the
    HS. Sounds like a good idea to me.
    ~~~~~~
    Bait for spammers:
    root@localhost
    postmaster@localhost
    admin@localhost
    abuse@localhost
    postmaster@[127.0.0.1]
    uce@ftc.gov
    ~~~~~~
    Remove "spamless" to email me.
  26. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Paul Hopwood <paul@hopwood.org.uk> wrote:

    >>>>>I realised he could have meant either, so asked for
    >>>>>elaboration. Actually some thermal compund is electrically
    >>>>>conductive too,
    >
    >>> Any of the stuff that's filled with metallic particles is
    >>> potentially electrically conductive.
    >
    >>Please name one.
    >
    > Arctic Silver is capacitive, rather than conductive, but the
    > same applies in terms of application. Their instructions
    > state:
    >
    > "While much safer than electrically conductive silver and
    > copper greases, Arctic Silver should be kept away from
    > electrical traces, pins, and leads. While it is not
    > electrically conductive, the compound is slightly capacitive
    > and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two
    > close-proximity electrical paths.)"
    >
    > I wouldn't doubt there are other compounds around which are
    > electrically conductive.


    Hiya Paul. And now for something completely different .... Dan
    compares toothpaste and Vegemite/Marmite to Artic Silver and finds
    that both are actually better! At least they are until they dry
    out.

    http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm

    Dan is, of course, also the author of How To destroy Your Computer.
    http://www.dansdata.com/sbs3.htm
  27. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Paul Hopwood" <paul@hopwood.org.uk> wrote in message
    news:3tmi705don88c7m8q0ldvrvmc94hgmhloh@4ax.com...
    | CrackerJack <binaryblobNOTTHISBIT@hotpop.com> wrote:
    |
    | >What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    | >core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    |
    | >Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
    |
    | You'll always get a little but if you are squeezing a lot out it
    | indicates you've applied far too much, meaning the layer of paste
    | between the processor die/heatspreader and heatsink is too thick.

    No matter how much you put on, the excess will get squeezed
    out buy the pressure from the HS hold down clip, your layer will always
    end up the same thickness. I have removed several and the "layer" looks the
    same on both the carefully applied with no squizz-out and the sloppy with
    heavy squizz.
    |
  28. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Conor <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >> Remember, the idea is NOT to form a layer between the two surfaces.
    >> The purpose of the paste is to fill the valleys in the contact
    >> surfaces with something which is more efficient at transferring heat
    >> away from the CPU core than the air which would otherwise fill the
    >> gaps

    >How I apply mine..

    >Small pea sized lump on the heatsink. Spread thinly then scrape off
    >with a razorblade.

    >Very small dot on the CPU core. Spread extremely thinly so it is hardly
    >visible.

    I use a similar technique but use a bit less.

    With the CPU fitted on the motherboard, I first apply a match head
    sized dot to the top of the core and smear it around so it covers the
    surface, then scrape most of it off with the edge of an old credit
    card to leave very thin translucent layer covering the core.

    I then clean the residue from the edge of the credit card with a ball
    of cotton wool and use that to wipe the bottom the heatsink, just
    sufficiently that it discolours the surface around where the core or
    heat spreader will make contact, before fitting the cooler to the
    board.

    That way I use less compound and have cleaned my "applicator" in the
    process; leaving just the cotton wool to discard. :-)

    --
    >iv< Paul >iv<
  29. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Rob Morley" <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.1ae36b04b0e5ce2d98989a@news.individual.net...
    > In article <94C89EB51ADD861M2A@208.42.66.156>, "Max"
    > max.headroom@microsoft.com says...
    > > Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > >> > > > Yes as it acts as an insulator. The idea of thermal
    > > >> > > > compound is to fill the very small scratches on the
    > > >> > > > faces.
    > > >> > >
    > > >> > > Actually the thermal paste is non-conductive.
    > > >> >
    > > >> > Eh?
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >> You thought he meant thermally, we realised he meant
    > > >> electrically.
    > > >>
    > > > I realised he could have meant either, so asked for
    > > > elaboration. Actually some thermal compund is electrically
    > > > conductive too,
    > >
    > > Which one?
    > >
    > Any of the stuff that's filled with metallic particles is potentially
    > electrically conductive.

    Especially since silver is one of the best electrical conductors there is..
  30. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    > >>1) If the compound is not too viscous, and the heatsink is clamped on
    > >>with some force, and you apply enough compound, the thickness of the
    > >>layer of compound does not depend on the amount applied, which is to say
    > >>that the excess gets squeezed out.
    > >>
    > >>2) Thermal compounds are not electrically conductive.
    > >>
    > >>3) Some thermal compounds (notably those containing silver compounds)
    > >>have capacitative properties that can be problemmatic if compound gets
    > >>between the chip's leads.
    > >>
    > >>4) If you use a compound that doesn't have the problemmatic capacitative
    > >>properties and is not too viscous, in general it won't hurt to use too
    much.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >
    > > 1) WRONG
    > > 2) WRONG
    > > 3) If 3 is true then 2) is wrong. You've just proved that yourself.
    > > 4) WRONG.
    > >

    > Please start with this: In what way does 3 contradict 2?

    How can you have capacitive properties if a compound is not conductive?

    1) Wrong becausewhen you use too much compound, pressure will not squeeze
    out to the same amount as if you had used the correct amount of compound to
    start with.

    2) EVERYTHING is electrically conductive to some degree. Even glass and
    rubber are conductive in the right conditions.

    3) True, but I've never had issues do to goo-ed up CPU's.

    4) Too much compound is like wrapping your core in a blanket... It slows the
    transfer of heat from the core to the sink/air.
  31. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Noozer wrote:
    >>>>1) If the compound is not too viscous, and the heatsink is clamped on
    >>>>with some force, and you apply enough compound, the thickness of the
    >>>>layer of compound does not depend on the amount applied, which is to say
    >>>>that the excess gets squeezed out.
    >>>>
    >>>>2) Thermal compounds are not electrically conductive.
    >>>>
    >>>>3) Some thermal compounds (notably those containing silver compounds)
    >>>>have capacitative properties that can be problemmatic if compound gets
    >>>>between the chip's leads.
    >>>>
    >>>>4) If you use a compound that doesn't have the problemmatic capacitative
    >>>>properties and is not too viscous, in general it won't hurt to use too
    >
    > much.
    >
    >>>>
    >>>1) WRONG
    >>>2) WRONG
    >>>3) If 3 is true then 2) is wrong. You've just proved that yourself.
    >>>4) WRONG.
    >>>
    >
    >
    >>Please start with this: In what way does 3 contradict 2?
    >
    >
    > How can you have capacitive properties if a compound is not conductive?
    >
    > 1) Wrong becausewhen you use too much compound, pressure will not squeeze
    > out to the same amount as if you had used the correct amount of compound to
    > start with.

    I'me no AMD expert but i think basic physics will tell you that even
    with a high friction coeficient between compound and material, a high
    preassure like that will spread the relativley non-viscous compound to
    its optimal value, PROVIDED that there are no air bubles or other
    colloidal elements.

    > 2) EVERYTHING is electrically conductive to some degree. Even glass and
    > rubber are conductive in the right conditions.

    Thats a pretty simplified view. I think your mixing up conductivity
    with dielectric. Electrons can stream between anode and cathode with
    resistance but "conductivity" comes from fermi-dirac effects within the
    metal (not to be confused with the fermi level). Basically the easy
    ionization of metals is what causes its high conductivity (because there
    are electrons so close to the fermi level). You might get quantum
    tunelling effects but thats another story.

    In fact if you put a high enough charge through a molecule like, for
    example a protein, you will destroy the protein's bindings before you
    end up getting any real conductivity. It works like this. For an
    electron do steam through a material, thats dielectric. For an electron
    to conduct through a metal by going through orbits, thats conductivity.

    And i think your ignoring that the minute, minute, minute conductivity
    of the thermal compound might not be even tnough to short out anything
    because remember the components do have a threshold value. I wouldn't
    worry about conductivity. If it was soo easily conductive, wouldn't the
    huge EM field coming from the processor affect it also?


    > 3) True, but I've never had issues do to goo-ed up CPU's.
    When you make the material, assuming the silver is uniform, you can
    easily see if a charge has a big enough dialectric to conduct. I'me
    sure the good poeple at GooCorp thought of that :). If not i'me sure it
    will be smaller than the threshold value assuming that the dielectric is
    high enough. If your really worried, take some goo, punch in a
    multimeter and see.


    > 4) Too much compound is like wrapping your core in a blanket... It slows the
    > transfer of heat from the core to the sink/air.

    I'de be more worried about the presence of air bubbles when you goop it
    on from a little tube nozzle, that can affect the heat transfer.

    Also a nother thing though, if you don't put a lot of goop (not that
    i'me advocating that too much goop is good) you might get dust between
    the chip and the fan, and that my friends is bad since dust is
    elctrostatically charged and does not act as a very good heat conductor.
  32. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "ntl: Victim" <ntl.victim@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
    news:Jllec.273$3I2.157@newsfe1-win...
    > "Rob Morley" <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
    > news:MPG.1ae36b04b0e5ce2d98989a@news.individual.net...
    > > In article <94C89EB51ADD861M2A@208.42.66.156>, "Max"
    > > max.headroom@microsoft.com says...
    > > > Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > >> > > > Yes as it acts as an insulator. The idea of thermal
    > > > >> > > > compound is to fill the very small scratches on the
    > > > >> > > > faces.
    > > > >> > >
    > > > >> > > Actually the thermal paste is non-conductive.
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > Eh?
    > > > >>
    > > > >>
    > > > >> You thought he meant thermally, we realised he meant
    > > > >> electrically.
    > > > >>
    > > > > I realised he could have meant either, so asked for
    > > > > elaboration. Actually some thermal compund is electrically
    > > > > conductive too,
    > > >
    > > > Which one?
    > > >
    > > Any of the stuff that's filled with metallic particles is potentially
    > > electrically conductive.
    >
    > Especially since silver is one of the best electrical conductors there
    is..


    It matters not a jot if the matrix is an insulator.


    >
    >
  33. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Queve Tientoo" <feesa@sbd.net> wrote in message
    news:107k0dtjgpe46c0@corp.supernews.com...
    >
    > "Paul Hopwood" <paul@hopwood.org.uk> wrote in message
    > news:3tmi705don88c7m8q0ldvrvmc94hgmhloh@4ax.com...
    > | CrackerJack <binaryblobNOTTHISBIT@hotpop.com> wrote:
    > |
    > | >What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > | >core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    > |
    > | >Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
    > |
    > | You'll always get a little but if you are squeezing a lot out it
    > | indicates you've applied far too much, meaning the layer of paste
    > | between the processor die/heatspreader and heatsink is too thick.
    >
    > No matter how much you put on, the excess will get squeezed
    > out buy the pressure from the HS hold down clip, your layer will always
    > end up the same thickness.


    And it's so thick, there's no metal-metal contact.
    It's difficult enough to rub the goop away with a finger - try it for
    yourself.
    Try my method and watch your temps drop 5C !


    I have removed several and the "layer" looks the
    > same on both the carefully applied with no squizz-out and the sloppy with
    > heavy squizz.
    > |
    >
    >
  34. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Conor <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >> Hmmm greasy finger goop, damn boy if you worked in my place
    >> and used your bare hands you'd be getting a twat round the
    >> back of your head...
    >>
    > Why is that? Is it because you buy into the hype of the
    > anti-static wristband manufacturers lies?
    >
    > And yes I know all about static damage...


    I don't think he is referring to damage by static. I think there
    is something "bad" about even a trace of grease like that from a
    finger. I don't know why this is though.

    Can anyone enlighten me (gently)?
  35. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Piotr Makley" <pmakley@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:94C96DB9B73531E75@130.133.1.4...
    > Conor <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > >> Hmmm greasy finger goop, damn boy if you worked in my place
    > >> and used your bare hands you'd be getting a twat round the
    > >> back of your head...
    > >>
    > > Why is that? Is it because you buy into the hype of the
    > > anti-static wristband manufacturers lies?
    > >
    > > And yes I know all about static damage...
    >
    >
    > I don't think he is referring to damage by static. I think there
    > is something "bad" about even a trace of grease like that from a
    > finger. I don't know why this is though.


    The reason for that is that you have no idea what you're talking about.
    Until they dry out, vegemite and toothpaste work better than AS3 !


    >
    > Can anyone enlighten me (gently)?
  36. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "QBall" <qball__@btinternet.com> wrote:

    > I have fine, non-greasy skin.
    > I notice other people's mice and keyboards are always covered
    > in a sort of greasy/grainy mix ..... disgusting.
    > You could always wash your finger first, you know.
    > Using an implement allows the introduction of coarse
    > particulate matter (which will screw the interface) - which a
    > finger can easily detect.
    >
    > Anyway, the addition of a
    > microscopic quantity of skin oil makes no difference
    > whatsoever.

    But why do people seem to worry about it?
  37. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Piotr Makley" <pmakley@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:94C96DD4DFC3E31E75@130.133.1.4...
    > "QBall" <qball__@btinternet.com> wrote:
    >
    > > I have fine, non-greasy skin.
    > > I notice other people's mice and keyboards are always covered
    > > in a sort of greasy/grainy mix ..... disgusting.
    > > You could always wash your finger first, you know.
    > > Using an implement allows the introduction of coarse
    > > particulate matter (which will screw the interface) - which a
    > > finger can easily detect.
    > >
    > > Anyway, the addition of a
    > > microscopic quantity of skin oil makes no difference
    > > whatsoever.
    >
    > But why do people seem to worry about it?


    Simple.
    Because they spend too much time with their fingers stuck up their backsides
    !
  38. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:26:44 +0000 (UTC), "QBall" <qball__@btinternet.com>
    wrote:

    >And it's so thick, there's no metal-metal contact.

    Metal to metal eh? Obviously you're only talking about CPUs with a heat
    spreader on them. It makes a much greater difference how thick the
    compound is when there's a spreader, because the retention force per sq.
    mm is so much lower.

    >It's difficult enough to rub the goop away with a finger - try it for
    >yourself.

    Well that's just a sign that your heatsink compound is too thick. If it
    can't even be rubbed with a finger it's not going to be getting into the
    crevasses very well either until it heats up, at which point it would also
    tend to ooze out from between the 'sink and cpu too.

    >Try my method and watch your temps drop 5C !

    On a P4, using very thick compound, I'll believe it makes a 5C difference.
    With compound of the proper consistency on an Athlon XP, maybe 1C if that,
    though it might take a couple thermal cycles for some of the excess to
    seep out.
  39. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Queve Tientoo" <feesa@sbd.net> wrote:

    >No matter how much you put on, the excess will get squeezed
    >out buy the pressure from the HS hold down clip, your layer will always
    >end up the same thickness. I have removed several and the "layer" looks the
    >same on both the carefully applied with no squizz-out and the sloppy with
    >heavy squizz.

    If too much is applied the excess won't be squeezed out. If it's
    applied properly their should be so little between the contact areas
    that it'll be barely visible when you remove the heatsink.

    --
    >iv< Paul >iv<
  40. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    Matt wrote:
    >
    > Conor wrote:
    > > In article <Dzgec.286$l14.105@news02.roc.ny>,
    > > matt@themattfella.zzzz.com says...
    > >
    > >>CrackerJack wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > >>>core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    > >>>
    > >>>Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
    > >>
    > >>I propose this answer:
    > >>
    > >>1) If the compound is not too viscous, and the heatsink is clamped on
    > >>with some force, and you apply enough compound, the thickness of the
    > >>layer of compound does not depend on the amount applied, which is to say
    > >>that the excess gets squeezed out.
    > >>
    > >>2) Thermal compounds are not electrically conductive.
    > >>
    > >>3) Some thermal compounds (notably those containing silver compounds)
    > >>have capacitative properties that can be problemmatic if compound gets
    > >>between the chip's leads.
    > >>
    > >>4) If you use a compound that doesn't have the problemmatic capacitative
    > >>properties and is not too viscous, in general it won't hurt to use too much.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >
    > > 1) WRONG
    > > 2) WRONG
    > > 3) If 3 is true then 2) is wrong. You've just proved that yourself.
    > > 4) WRONG.
    > >
    >
    > Your reply is practically content-free.
    >
    > Please start with this: In what way does 3 contradict 2?

    Apart from the above, the word you're looking for is 'dielectric'. Look
    up any elementary physics text book.
  41. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Johannes H Andersen" <johs@sizefitter_0_0_0_0_.com> wrote in message
    news:407A836B.759D1483@sizefitter_0_0_0_0_.com...
    >
    >
    > Matt wrote:
    > >
    > > Conor wrote:
    > > > In article <Dzgec.286$l14.105@news02.roc.ny>,
    > > > matt@themattfella.zzzz.com says...
    > > >
    > > >>CrackerJack wrote:
    > > >>
    > > >>>What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > > >>>core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    > > >>>
    > > >>>Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
    > > >>
    > > >>I propose this answer:
    > > >>
    > > >>1) If the compound is not too viscous, and the heatsink is clamped on
    > > >>with some force, and you apply enough compound, the thickness of the
    > > >>layer of compound does not depend on the amount applied, which is to
    say
    > > >>that the excess gets squeezed out.
    > > >>
    > > >>2) Thermal compounds are not electrically conductive.
    > > >>
    > > >>3) Some thermal compounds (notably those containing silver compounds)
    > > >>have capacitative properties that can be problemmatic if compound gets
    > > >>between the chip's leads.
    > > >>
    > > >>4) If you use a compound that doesn't have the problemmatic
    capacitative
    > > >>properties and is not too viscous, in general it won't hurt to use too
    much.
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >
    > > > 1) WRONG
    > > > 2) WRONG
    > > > 3) If 3 is true then 2) is wrong. You've just proved that yourself.
    > > > 4) WRONG.
    > > >
    > >
    > > Your reply is practically content-free.
    > >
    > > Please start with this: In what way does 3 contradict 2?
    >
    > Apart from the above, the word you're looking for is 'dielectric'. Look
    > up any elementary physics text book.


    Hehe ..... LOL
    The contemporary edukation system has a lot to answer for.
    Bad spelling is so freaking irritating.
  42. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:19:51 +0100, Conor <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote:

    >In article <ymoec.80914$Pk3.59130@pd7tw1no>, dont.spam@me.here says...
    >
    >> > Please start with this: In what way does 3 contradict 2?
    >>
    >> How can you have capacitive properties if a compound is not conductive?
    >>
    >Precisely.

    Actually, you can have a "capacitive property" without being conductive. Do
    some research on dielectric constant. Every substance has one. Even a
    vacum has one. Some substances with high dialectric constants, such as
    silicones, have such high resistances they are effectively non-conductive
    (you won't read any resistance with a standard ohmmeter), yet they do
    increase the capacitance between between conductors. So there are 2 points

    1. Everything has a capacitive property. It is called the dielectric
    constant. It is not directly related to conductance or resistance.

    2. Everything is also to some degree conductive. When the resistance (the
    inverse of conductance) is high enough we can't practically measure it we
    call that substance non-conductive.

    http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/dielectric_constants_strengths.htm
    JT
  43. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:47:11 +0100, Piotr Makley <pmakley@mail.com> wrote:

    >Conor <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >>> Hmmm greasy finger goop, damn boy if you worked in my place
    >>> and used your bare hands you'd be getting a twat round the
    >>> back of your head...
    >>>
    >> Why is that? Is it because you buy into the hype of the
    >> anti-static wristband manufacturers lies?
    >>
    >> And yes I know all about static damage...
    >
    >
    >I don't think he is referring to damage by static. I think there
    >is something "bad" about even a trace of grease like that from a
    >finger. I don't know why this is though.
    >
    >Can anyone enlighten me (gently)?

    Short term, skin oils are a poor heat conductor, so interfere with heat
    transfer from cpu to heatsink. Long term most peoples skin oils are acidic
    or salty enough to cause corrosion, which is also not a good thing to have
    between a cpu and a heatsink

    JT
  44. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "QBall" <qball__@btinternet.com> wrote:

    >> I don't think he is referring to damage by static. I think
    >> there is something "bad" about even a trace of grease like
    >> that from a finger. I don't know why this is though.
    >
    >
    > The reason for that is that you have no idea what you're
    > talking about. Until they dry out, vegemite and toothpaste
    > work better than AS3 !


    Maybe you can tell me whatyou think is happening if grease is
    present and if it is good or bad. Thanks.
  45. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:19:12 GMT, JT <spam@dcplus.dyndns.info> wrote:

    >On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:47:11 +0100, Piotr Makley <pmakley@mail.com> wrote:
    >
    >>Conor <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>>> Hmmm greasy finger goop, damn boy if you worked in my place
    >>>> and used your bare hands you'd be getting a twat round the
    >>>> back of your head...
    >>>>
    >>> Why is that? Is it because you buy into the hype of the
    >>> anti-static wristband manufacturers lies?
    >>>
    >>> And yes I know all about static damage...
    >>
    >>
    >>I don't think he is referring to damage by static. I think there
    >>is something "bad" about even a trace of grease like that from a
    >>finger. I don't know why this is though.
    >>
    >>Can anyone enlighten me (gently)?
    >
    >Short term, skin oils are a poor heat conductor, so interfere with heat
    >transfer from cpu to heatsink. Long term most peoples skin oils are acidic
    >or salty enough to cause corrosion, which is also not a good thing to have
    >between a cpu and a heatsink
    >
    >JT

    Nonsense. NOBODY has enough oil on their fingers to significantly cause
    corrosion or degrade the cooling efficiency. Now maybe if someone had
    just finished picking their nose or painting a fence...
  46. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "JT" <spam@dcplus.dyndns.info> wrote in message
    news:d6df40e0fb3d8519bcf550b358786db0@news.teranews.com...
    > On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:47:11 +0100, Piotr Makley <pmakley@mail.com> wrote:
    >
    > >Conor <conor_turton@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > >
    > >>> Hmmm greasy finger goop, damn boy if you worked in my place
    > >>> and used your bare hands you'd be getting a twat round the
    > >>> back of your head...
    > >>>
    > >> Why is that? Is it because you buy into the hype of the
    > >> anti-static wristband manufacturers lies?
    > >>
    > >> And yes I know all about static damage...
    > >
    > >
    > >I don't think he is referring to damage by static. I think there
    > >is something "bad" about even a trace of grease like that from a
    > >finger. I don't know why this is though.
    > >
    > >Can anyone enlighten me (gently)?
    >
    > Short term, skin oils are a poor heat conductor, so interfere with heat
    > transfer from cpu to heatsink. Long term most peoples skin oils are acidic
    > or salty enough to cause corrosion, which is also not a good thing to have
    > between a cpu and a heatsink


    Everything depends on the amount of skin-oil.
    If you've recently washed your hands, very little will be deposited.
    Some people barely secrete any oil, others have greasy skin.
    Ultimately, the tiny amounts involved are unlikely to find their way onto
    the sink because they'll be trapped under a layer of goop on the finger.


    >
    > JT
  47. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "CrackerJack" <binaryblobNOTTHISBIT@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:94C89175463C6AD265@64.62.191.93...
    > What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    >
    > Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?

    Is there any "real" problem? No.

    Is the heat transfer less efficient? Yes.

    By how much? Not very.

    There is a point past which application thickness doesn't matter. For example, putting on a layer 1mm thick and 2mm or 3mm or more will give you the same amount between the heatsink and the core; the excess is squished out. Essentially, past a point, it can't possibly get any worse.

    However, below a certain thickness (at which I could only guess), the thickness of the paste as applied will affect the thickness of the paste (and hence the thermal conductivity) once the heatsink is on. This point is only reached when no compound squishes out i.e. what you put on is what ends up between the HS and CPU. Here less is better.

    Personally, I never worry about it. Unless it's dripping off the CPU, it'll be fine.

    However, do heed the warnings that have been given. A silver-based compound, such as Arctic Silver, can cause problems if it comes in contact with the CPU bridges. No such problems exist with ceramic-based compounds, such as Ceramique.
  48. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Matt" <matt@themattfella.zzzz.com> wrote in message
    news:MPAec.1456$fG6.1374@news01.roc.ny...
    > QBall wrote:
    > > "Johannes H Andersen" <johs@sizefitter_0_0_0_0_.com> wrote in message
    > > news:407A836B.759D1483@sizefitter_0_0_0_0_.com...
    > >
    > >>
    > >>Matt wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>Conor wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>>In article <Dzgec.286$l14.105@news02.roc.ny>,
    > >>>>matt@themattfella.zzzz.com says...
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>>CrackerJack wrote:
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>>What exactly is the problem if too much cpu compound is put on the
    > >>>>>>core and it gets squashed out onto the surrounding area?
    > >>>>>>
    > >>>>>>Apart from looking messy, is there any real problem with this?
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>I propose this answer:
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>1) If the compound is not too viscous, and the heatsink is clamped on
    > >>>>>with some force, and you apply enough compound, the thickness of the
    > >>>>>layer of compound does not depend on the amount applied, which is to
    > >
    > > say
    > >
    > >>>>>that the excess gets squeezed out.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>2) Thermal compounds are not electrically conductive.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>3) Some thermal compounds (notably those containing silver compounds)
    > >>>>>have capacitative properties that can be problemmatic if compound
    gets
    > >>>>>between the chip's leads.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>4) If you use a compound that doesn't have the problemmatic
    > >
    > > capacitative
    > >
    > >>>>>properties and is not too viscous, in general it won't hurt to use
    too
    > >
    > > much.
    > >
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>1) WRONG
    > >>>>2) WRONG
    > >>>>3) If 3 is true then 2) is wrong. You've just proved that yourself.
    > >>>>4) WRONG.
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>Your reply is practically content-free.
    > >>>
    > >>>Please start with this: In what way does 3 contradict 2?
    > >>
    > >>Apart from the above, the word you're looking for is 'dielectric'. Look
    > >>up any elementary physics text book.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Hehe ..... LOL
    > > The contemporary edukation system has a lot to answer for.
    > > Bad spelling is so freaking irritating.
    > >
    > >
    > What was misspelled?


    Dielectric was 'dialectric' - like dialectic !

    >
  49. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 20:26:53 +0100 As truth resonates honesty Lem
    <lem@mail.com> wrote :

    >Paul Hopwood <paul@hopwood.org.uk> wrote:
    >
    >>>>>>I realised he could have meant either, so asked for
    >>>>>>elaboration. Actually some thermal compund is electrically
    >>>>>>conductive too,
    >>
    >>>> Any of the stuff that's filled with metallic particles is
    >>>> potentially electrically conductive.
    >>
    >>>Please name one.
    >>
    >> Arctic Silver is capacitive, rather than conductive, but the
    >> same applies in terms of application. Their instructions
    >> state:
    >>
    >> "While much safer than electrically conductive silver and
    >> copper greases, Arctic Silver should be kept away from
    >> electrical traces, pins, and leads. While it is not
    >> electrically conductive, the compound is slightly capacitive
    >> and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two
    >> close-proximity electrical paths.)"
    >>
    >> I wouldn't doubt there are other compounds around which are
    >> electrically conductive.
    >
    >
    >Hiya Paul. And now for something completely different .... Dan
    >compares toothpaste and Vegemite/Marmite to Artic Silver and finds
    >that both are actually better! At least they are until they dry
    >out.
    >
    >http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm
    >
    >Dan is, of course, also the author of How To destroy Your Computer.
    >http://www.dansdata.com/sbs3.htm

    I can believe it.There's lot's of Hype about.
    I bought this cooler for my O/C AMD XP 1800,
    MicroFlow2 SPA07B2 (Skt A)
    http://tinyurl.com/ybtn

    look at the price

    and it came with it's own tube of,"Artic" silver.So the whole
    kit-and-kaboodle was actually less than the cost one tube
    of,"Genuine","Artic Silver".
    Even under my heaviest gaming loads it rarely goes above 40 Deg C and
    trust me I give my system,"Hammer".
    I did polish the bottom of the HS but the copper centre really does
    the biz anyway.

    As we speak Idle temps are,

    37 Deg C

    Running @ 143/143
    :D

    As summer comes I expect it to hit 50 Deg C,but then that's nowt for
    an AMD and the ting is near silent as well :)

    This has to be the bargain of the year IMNSHO :P


    --
    Free Windows/PC help,
    http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
    email shepATpartyheld.de
    Free songs to download and,"BURN" :O)
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm
Ask a new question

Read More

AMD Hardware Thermal Compound Homebuilt Overclocking Product