Opteron or FX5x

Del

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Im after a socket 940 Chip and am unsure which chip to purchase. I could get
a FX5x chip or the Opteron. What is the difference between them? I know the
FX is aimed at games but surely there cant be that much difference as I can
get a opteron chip quite cheap. How do the opteron chips perfom against my
XP3200 What one would I need to get to outperform it? This is very confusing
as I am sure that is what AMD want to create, confusion causes incorrect
purchases!

Do they require ECC DDR? and if so why, this surely must be another money
spinning scam by hardware manafactures. ECC is not faster or more reliable
than NON ECC, tell me when you have been using memory for a few months it
has suddenly failed due to errors? Also I believe that ECC is harder to
overclock?
 
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del@here.com wrote:
> Im after a socket 940 Chip and am unsure which chip to purchase. I
> could get a FX5x chip or the Opteron. What is the difference between
> them?

The only difference between an Opteron 1xx and a FX is that the FX has an
unlocked multiplier.

> I know the FX is aimed at games but surely there cant be that
> much difference as I can get a opteron chip quite cheap. How do the
> opteron chips perfom against my XP3200

Depends which one you get and how overclocked yout 3200 is, which opteron
you get, and what application you are talking about. It'll vary from
"absolutely destroys" (Opteron 148 vs stock 3200) to "about equal" (Opteron
140 vs stock 3200 in graphics) to "moderately slower" (Opteron 140 vs stock
3200 in media encoding).

[...]
> Do they require ECC DDR?

Yes.

> and if so why

Because the Opteron was designed for the server market, where ECC is widely
used. Since the memory controller is on-die, it's not cost-effective for AMD
to have two different masks, one for ECC and one for non-ECC RAM. This is
being "fixed", I believe, with socket940, and the CPUs that use this socket
will be able to use either ECC or non-ECC RAM.

[...]
> ECC is not faster or
> more reliable than NON ECC

ECC is not faster, but it is more reliable. That's why it's called error
CORRECTing code RAM. If your server requires 5 nines uptime, then you really
don't want a background alpha particle flipping a bit and taking out your
server. This happens more than you might expect, as servers generally have
higher density ram and more of it compared to your average user. For the
average home user, it's obviously not an issue as such uptime isn't
expected, and failures happen far more often (unfiltered power supply, power
cuts, cat chewing through the power cord, etc etc).

[...]

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>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Brown <see@signature.below> writes:

>> ECC is not faster or more reliable than NON ECC

Michael> ECC is not faster, but it is more reliable. That's why it's
Michael> called error CORRECTing code RAM. If your server requires 5
Michael> nines uptime, then you really don't want a background alpha
Michael> particle flipping a bit and taking out your server. This
Michael> happens more than you might expect, as servers generally
Michael> have higher density ram and more of it compared to your
Michael> average user. For the average home user, it's obviously not
Michael> an issue as such uptime isn't expected, and failures happen
Michael> far more often (unfiltered power supply, power cuts, cat
Michael> chewing through the power cord, etc etc).

Some users have as much memory as servers these days. This is all
relative. Anyway the biggest failure in desktop computers are usually
heat secondary to a fan failing.

ECC usually costs more but there are Non-ECC memory that is pretty
pricey also. Anyway it makes little difference because the majority of
desktop systems don't support ECC.

Good luck
 

Del

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So what should I get a Opteron or a FX chip?????????????????????

Do the FX chips take standard ddr memory or require ECC as well?
I
have seen some Socket 940 boards that take ECC and Non ECC memory (ASUS and
MSI) would an Opteron work with the Non Ecc in these boards or would I have
to get a FX chip to be able to use my non ECC DDR memory I already have.

I am upgrading and dont really want to buy more memory as I already have
some decent DDR400 memory.
 
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del@here.com wrote:
> So what should I get a Opteron or a FX chip?????????????????????
>
> Do the FX chips take standard ddr memory or require ECC as well?
> I
> have seen some Socket 940 boards that take ECC and Non ECC memory
> (ASUS and MSI) would an Opteron work with the Non Ecc in these
> boards or would I have to get a FX chip to be able to use my non ECC
> DDR memory I already have.

Oops, I made a big blooper in my first post. Both the Opteron and FX require
registered memory, but only the Opteron requires ECC. So the differences are
that the FX51 doesn't need (though can use) ECC memory (it still must be
registered though) and has an unlocked multiplier, and the Opteron requires
ECC and registered RAM and has a locked multiplier (though you can change it
down through PowerNow AFAIK).

> I am upgrading and dont really want to buy more memory as I already
> have some decent DDR400 memory.

By "decent" I presume you mean high-performance stuff with tight timings or
something. This almost certainly won't go into a skt940 board as it's almost
certainly not registered.

Assuming your RAM is not registered, I'd go for the Opteron as the price
difference between ECC and non-ECC is smaller (unless you're buying huge
amounts) than the difference between the FXs and the Opterons. If you RAM is
registered, then it depends on whether buying new RAM will be cheaper than
buying a FX51 as opposed to an Opteron.

--
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Michael Brown wrote:
[...]
>> I am upgrading and dont really want to buy more memory as I already
>> have some decent DDR400 memory.
>
> By "decent" I presume you mean high-performance stuff with tight
> timings or something. This almost certainly won't go into a skt940
> board as it's almost certainly not registered.

Oh, you have to have two sticks too :) Both the FX's and the Opterons only
run in dual-channel mode.

[...]
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Around Christmas I put together an FX-51 system.
I had a hard time finding a motherboard so I went with the dual cpu board by
MSI with socket 940. They only have one, the K8T Master2-Far. The Master 1
is for one CPU.
But now I'm glad I bought the Master 2. Here is why.
My last system as a dual 1800.
Now that I'm running just one processor, I'm finding sure, when I'm doing
one thing at a time - like gaming - it ROCKS. But when I am burning a CD or
running Media Player maximized (not even full screen) or other CPU-intensive
apps that love to hog, yeah it runs them great by themselves but if I pull
up something else in the other monitor, SLOW. Any kind of multitasking is
noticably lame. Very bad at multitasking. I doubt any worse than any other
single CPU system EXCEPT for Intels hyperthreaded CPUs and I stay away from
those for other reasons. Luckily there aren't tons of times I'm needing this
capability.
Okay so here is what I recommend and what I wish I had done in the first
place: Buy a dual 940 motherboard. And it should be possible to run an
Opteron 248 (same chip and price as the FX-51 but MP enabled) by itself
until you can afford or desire to have two running at the same time [please
double check this "fact". I am not 100% sure you can run an opteron 248 by
itself]. We all know these 940 chipset CPUs will be dropping in price fast
over the coming weeks as 939 rolls out. So you will end up with a screamer
whether you decide to stay with one CPU or go with two. Since I opted for
the FX-51, I have to now get rid of it so I can buy two Opteron 248's. Oh
and if you are rolling in the dough, get the Opteron 250 instead!
Caveat: If you want to overclock, don't get the MSI board! It's barely
overclockable.
I hear, though, there is at least one 940 board out there that is
overclockable. But me, I'm wanting stability more than anything and heck a
stock-clocked (well barely overclocked) FX-51 combined with a gig of DDR RAM
(make sure you get two your RAM divided up into two sticks, no matter what
amount you get), and a GeForce 5950 ultra, I'm able to play Unreal
Tournament 2004 with everything jacked to max and great frame rates. So why
overclock? Yeah yeah... when Doom3 or Half Life finally come out then maybe
I'll need to but I doubt it. By then maybe I'll have dropped two Opteron
250's into this motherboard and snagged the next generation video card :)
I hope this rambling email helped some!!!


<del@here.com> wrote in message
news:40a6000b$0$175$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Im after a socket 940 Chip and am unsure which chip to purchase. I could
get
> a FX5x chip or the Opteron. What is the difference between them? I know
the
> FX is aimed at games but surely there cant be that much difference as I
can
> get a opteron chip quite cheap. How do the opteron chips perfom against my
> XP3200 What one would I need to get to outperform it? This is very
confusing
> as I am sure that is what AMD want to create, confusion causes incorrect
> purchases!
>
> Do they require ECC DDR? and if so why, this surely must be another money
> spinning scam by hardware manafactures. ECC is not faster or more reliable
> than NON ECC, tell me when you have been using memory for a few months it
> has suddenly failed due to errors? Also I believe that ECC is harder to
> overclock?
 
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Scotter wrote:
[...]
> Okay so here is what I recommend and what I wish I had done in the
> first place: Buy a dual 940 motherboard. And it should be possible to
> run an Opteron 248 (same chip and price as the FX-51 but MP enabled)
> by itself until you can afford or desire to have two running at the
> same time [please double check this "fact". I am not 100% sure you
> can run an opteron 248 by itself].

Yes, you can run an Opteron 2xx (or 8xx for that matter) by itself. The
trouble with waiting before getting the other chip is that you must have
matched steppings for any dual-CPU system. At the current rate of Opteron
stepping changes, if you wait a year or so then there'll be a different
stepping in production and you won't be able to get a CPU to match the one
you already have.

[...]

--
Michael Brown
www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more :)
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open
 

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Thanks for the comments this is what I am looking at getting now:

AMD Opteron (1 WAY) 1.4ghz 64 Bit 1400 Mhz
With the ASUS Asus SK8V
How would this perform against my XP3200 (I play lots of games and do TONS
of video editing/encoding) so I need a pretty beefy system. Or would I be
better of waiting for the new PCI format as I understand that AMD are asking
motherboard makers to drop support for the old PCI slots.
I understand that this configuration I will be able to overclock hoping to
provide FX51 performance.
Anyone suggest what memory I can use with this setup too as this is another
grey area I have had lots of conflicting infomation.
The memory in my current system is :
Corsair Value Select 2x 512 DDR 400 (cas 2.5)
 
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Thanks, Michael, for that advice! :)

"Michael Brown" <see@signature.below> wrote in message
news:Qxwqc.6952$XI4.253000@news.xtra.co.nz...
> Scotter wrote:
> [...]
> > Okay so here is what I recommend and what I wish I had done in the
> > first place: Buy a dual 940 motherboard. And it should be possible to
> > run an Opteron 248 (same chip and price as the FX-51 but MP enabled)
> > by itself until you can afford or desire to have two running at the
> > same time [please double check this "fact". I am not 100% sure you
> > can run an opteron 248 by itself].
>
> Yes, you can run an Opteron 2xx (or 8xx for that matter) by itself. The
> trouble with waiting before getting the other chip is that you must have
> matched steppings for any dual-CPU system. At the current rate of Opteron
> stepping changes, if you wait a year or so then there'll be a different
> stepping in production and you won't be able to get a CPU to match the one
> you already have.
>
> [...]
>
> --
> Michael Brown
> www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more :)
> Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open
>
>
 
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I may be wrong here but I believe your XP3200 would perform very close to a
1.4ghz Opteron.
I don't see a reason to get an Opteron unless you are wanting at least a
dual setup.
If you are going single CPU then get one of the Athlon 64 CPUs like the
Athlon 64 3400+ which runs at 2.2ghz, btw, and currently sells for $416 at
newegg.com.
But since you were going to get the Opteron 240 (1.4ghz), I see you maybe
are wanting to keep your spending down since the Opteron 240 goes for $192
right now. So if that is the case then I'd recommend the 2ghz Athlon 64
3000+ for $223. Only $30 more than the Opteron 240 but I bet a much better
performer since they are both 64bit AMD CPUs and the Athlon 64 3000+ runs
600mhz faster and they should both be just as overclockable but I don't know
that part for sure. Did you hear the Athlon 64 3000+ CPUs were locked or
something?
Personally, around Christmas time I wanted the fastest thing there was so I
built a FX-51 system and am very happy with it.
Another thing that should figure into your plan, I guess, is this: What
video card do you have? If it is an expensive AGP card then of course I'd
not wait for that new PCI-express interface unless you have a buyer for your
current card.

OK so that said, I see you do video editing/encoding. I would heavily
recommend you look into a dual CPU system. So here is a post (modified some
for you) I made lower down in this same thread that applies to someone who
does what you do:

Around Christmas I put together an FX-51 system.
I had a hard time finding a motherboard so I went with the dual cpu board by
MSI with socket 940. They only have one, the K8T Master2-Far. The Master 1
is for one CPU only.
But now I'm glad I bought the Master 2. Here is why.
My last system was an AMD dual 1800+ setup.
Now that I'm running just one processor, I'm finding sure, when I'm doing
one thing at a time - like gaming - it ROCKS. But when I am burning a CD or
running Media Player maximized (not even full screen) or other CPU-intensive
apps (like video or music editing), yeah it runs them great by themselves
but if I pull
up something else in the other monitor, SLOW. Any kind of multitasking is
noticably lame. Very bad at multitasking. I doubt any worse than any other
single CPU system EXCEPT for Intels hyperthreaded CPUs and I stay away from
those for other reasons. Luckily there aren't tons of times I'm needing this
capability. But it is really annoying when I'm rendering a movie or a set of
hirez 3D images for an animation and the machine stutters when I try to
bring up some other app to say work in Photoshop or send email while the
render is happening in the background.
Okay so here is what I recommend and what I wish I had done in the first
place: Buy a dual 940 motherboard. And it should be possible to run an
Opteron 248 (same chip and price as the FX-51 but MP enabled) by itself
until you can afford or desire to have two running at the same time. We all
know these 940 chipset CPUs will be dropping in price fast over the coming
weeks as 939 rolls out. So you will end up with a screamer
whether you decide to stay with one CPU or go with two. Since I opted for
the FX-51, I have to now get rid of it so I can buy two Opteron 248's. Oh
and if you are rolling in the dough, get the Opteron 250 instead!
Caveat: If you want to overclock, don't get the MSI board! It's barely
overclockable.
I hear, though, there is at least one 940 board out there that is
overclockable. But me, I'm wanting stability more than anything and heck a
stock-clocked (well barely overclocked) FX-51 combined with a gig of DDR RAM
(make sure you get your RAM divided up into two sticks, no matter what
amount you get), and a GeForce 5950 ultra, I'm able to play Unreal
Tournament 2004 with everything jacked to max and great frame rates. So why
overclock? Yeah yeah... when Doom3 or Half Life finally come out then maybe
I'll need to but I doubt it. By then maybe I'll have dropped two Opteron
250's into this motherboard and snagged the next generation video card :)
Oh and by the way if you are doing video editing, you probably already know
this but if not: You can never have enough RAM! If I were you and could
afford it, I'd go with 2 or even 4 gigs.
I hope this rambling email helped some!!!



<del@here.com> wrote in message
news:40ab8e73$0$204$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Thanks for the comments this is what I am looking at getting now:
>
> AMD Opteron (1 WAY) 1.4ghz 64 Bit 1400 Mhz
> With the ASUS Asus SK8V
> How would this perform against my XP3200 (I play lots of games and do TONS
> of video editing/encoding) so I need a pretty beefy system. Or would I be
> better of waiting for the new PCI format as I understand that AMD are
asking
> motherboard makers to drop support for the old PCI slots.
> I understand that this configuration I will be able to overclock hoping to
> provide FX51 performance.
> Anyone suggest what memory I can use with this setup too as this is
another
> grey area I have had lots of conflicting infomation.
> The memory in my current system is :
> Corsair Value Select 2x 512 DDR 400 (cas 2.5)
 

Del

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So what you are saying is the opteron 140 will perform the same as my
xp3200? I dont want the Athlon 64 as it is not a socket 940 board I want the
option of upgrading on the socket 940 boards. Am i correct in understanding
the Opteron 1xx is EXACTLY the same as the FX5x chip? except for speed. the
reason I want the 140 is I am told that it is easy to overclock with the
Asus board.

what memory will i have to get? see my last post on what I already have

Phew this is hard work, but thanks for the patience folks
 
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Well the 140 is a very old Opteron in "computer days" :)
But yeah I'm saying the Opteron 148 is no different than the FX-51 and the
Opteron 150 is the FX-53.
I believe for both (really up to the motherboard) you will need ECC
Registered RAM, which yes is more expensive.
I hear the new 939 boards coming soon will allow either ECC Reg or "plain"
RAM.
Your current RAM would not work on any 940 board I've seen but let's see if
anyone corrects me on that one.
I heard great things about the new K8T800pro chipset (compared to the K8T800
chipset on my MSI K8TMaster-2 FAR board). If I were to stick with 940 I'd
get that board.
So... if I were in your shoes and I could wait a few weeks to see if those
939's finally show up that can handle that great RAM you already have... I'd
do that.


<del@here.com> wrote in message
news:40ad11b4$0$167$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> So what you are saying is the opteron 140 will perform the same as my
> xp3200? I dont want the Athlon 64 as it is not a socket 940 board I want
the
> option of upgrading on the socket 940 boards. Am i correct in
understanding
> the Opteron 1xx is EXACTLY the same as the FX5x chip? except for speed.
the
> reason I want the 140 is I am told that it is easy to overclock with the
> Asus board.
>
> what memory will i have to get? see my last post on what I already have
>
> Phew this is hard work, but thanks for the patience folks
 
G

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del@here.com wrote:
[...]
> Am i correct
> in understanding the Opteron 1xx is EXACTLY the same as the FX5x
> chip?

No, despite my confusing comments earlier on :) The Opteron requires ECC,
whereas the FX does not require (but can use it AFAIK). Both, however,
require registered RAM. Apart from this, they are they are identical AFAIK.

[...]
> what memory will i have to get?

Opteron: Two sticks, registered, ECC, PC3200 or higher
FX: Two sticks, registered, PC3200 or higher

In both cases, you should check to see what brands/modules have been given a
tick for use in the motherboard that you are using.

[...]

--
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www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more :)
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open
 
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Let me add to this, please.
My FX is currently using ECC Registered so if you are correct, it will use
either Registered or ECC Registered.
How often do you find RAM that is one or the other without being both? I
doubt very often.

"Michael Brown" <see@signature.below> wrote in message
news:X0irc.7919$XI4.292544@news.xtra.co.nz...
> del@here.com wrote:
> [...]
> > Am i correct
> > in understanding the Opteron 1xx is EXACTLY the same as the FX5x
> > chip?
>
> No, despite my confusing comments earlier on :) The Opteron requires ECC,
> whereas the FX does not require (but can use it AFAIK). Both, however,
> require registered RAM. Apart from this, they are they are identical
AFAIK.
>
> [...]
> > what memory will i have to get?
>
> Opteron: Two sticks, registered, ECC, PC3200 or higher
> FX: Two sticks, registered, PC3200 or higher
>
> In both cases, you should check to see what brands/modules have been given
a
> tick for use in the motherboard that you are using.
>
> [...]
>
> --
> Michael Brown
> www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more :)
> Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open
>
>
 

Del

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That sounds good to me, I will wait for the 939 boards then

in the meantime ill overclock my xp3200 to give me a taster!


Regards